Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: Jay w on 15 September 2008, 00:36:15
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This isn't one of my rants about pike wagons this is a serious post......
correct me if i am wrong but the current regs do not force caravans to have an annual test, however there are more and more of them on the roads these days and there seem to be more accidents involving 'vans.
Im not saying hat the accidents are caused by lack of maintainence but there must be an element.
Some of these vans sit in compounds for months and then get dragged out for a couple of weeks of the year, that cannot be good for them, wheel bearings and tyres must be the main items that suffer as a result
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This isn't one of my rants about pike wagons this is a serious post......
correct me if i am wrong but the current regs do not force caravans to have an annual test, however there are more and more of them on the roads these days and there seem to be more accidents involving 'vans.
Im not saying hat the accidents are caused by lack of maintainence but there must be an element.
Some of these vans sit in compounds for months and then get dragged out for a couple of weeks of the year, that cannot be good for them, wheel bearings and tyres must be the main items that suffer as a result
I think trailer rules apply - Eg no MOT needed? :-/
I can't say with certainty, though.. :y
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No MOT is needed, as with trailers, I agree that sat for many months then taken out, perahps there should be some form of Mot but where do do you stop with trailers. :y
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This isn't one of my rants about pike wagons this is a serious post......
correct me if i am wrong but the current regs do not force caravans to have an annual test, however there are more and more of them on the roads these days and there seem to be more accidents involving 'vans.
Im not saying hat the accidents are caused by lack of maintainence but there must be an element.
Some of these vans sit in compounds for months and then get dragged out for a couple of weeks of the year, that cannot be good for them, wheel bearings and tyres must be the main items that suffer as a result
I think trailer rules apply - Eg no MOT needed? :-/
I can't say with certainty, though.. :y
pretty much as i thought, so effectively there is no control on something that is a big/bigger than a car and coupled with a car/4x4/truck can do massive damage.....
madness, sheer madness
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This isn't one of my rants about pike wagons this is a serious post......
correct me if i am wrong but the current regs do not force caravans to have an annual test, however there are more and more of them on the roads these days and there seem to be more accidents involving 'vans.
Im not saying hat the accidents are caused by lack of maintainence but there must be an element.
Some of these vans sit in compounds for months and then get dragged out for a couple of weeks of the year, that cannot be good for them, wheel bearings and tyres must be the main items that suffer as a result
I think trailer rules apply - Eg no MOT needed? :-/
I can't say with certainty, though.. :y
pretty much as i thought, so effectively there is no control on something that is a big/bigger than a car and coupled with a car/4x4/truck can do massive damage.....
madness, sheer madness
About rignt ::) ::) ::)
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the other upside to a regular check on caravans would be checking to see if the caravan s what is claims to be.
Caravan theft and 'ringing' seems to be reasonably popular with some elements of the criminal fraternity, and there is serious money paid for some of these 'vans, this may also go some way to help in that respect
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TBH Jay, the majority of Caravan related accidents are due to bad driving. Either too fast or inexperienced! >:( >:(
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I'm quite a keen towablehomer (caravaner) I have an older 1990 van, I keep it in reasonably good condition and personally service it myself prior to the main holiday away in it. As you say tyres are the main issue, the walls do crack due to standing in one place whilst in storage, appetite for destruction when tyres are over 5 years old.
Though I don't need another bill to pay, I strongly agree with an MOT for caravans... not trailers though.. reason for this is that most caravans have well over a tonne distributed over one axle, excessive stress to say the least :-/ How many towed vehicles do you witness with a defective light / lights, indicating the opposite way and no brake light is a fine example.
You'd still get the odd gypo who'd flout the regulation, but, that's par for the course I'd say.
So, yes, bring it on, let's make our roads safer :y
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I have always thought they should have an MOT, tyres and brakes are a key factor on the safety of these things and the majority never get them properly serviced.
In fact I think all braked trailers should be tested.
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I have always thought they should have an MOT, tyres and brakes are a key factor on the safety of these things and the majority never get them properly serviced.
In fact I think all braked trailers should be tested.
All trailers should be tested. Anyone can build a trailer, stick a load of weight in it and then bomb down the road at 50 without it havng to pass any kind of engineering standards review.
As for the caravan it should either require an MOT, without the three year grace period for the reasons above, or a dealers service stamp on the service book.
Unfortunately due to the lack of facilities able to provide an MOT service it would be another reason for ridiculous charges and additional unrequired work being carried out, but that may just be the cynic in me. :-/
Personally I get mine serviced every year for warranty reasons and due to the van costing more than the car so deffo don't want any problems that would lead to an accident happening.
Steve
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I have quite a few thoughts on this, firstly it is unpolicable, secondly servicing is DIYable.
The main reasons for crashing are
Old tyres, need to change them every 5 to 7 years
Poor loading, over heavy or too light over the tow hitch will cause massive stability problems.
Unsuitable tow cars, Golfs and Astras have been seen towing twin axle caravans :o
Too fast down hill - the most unstable condition, can be made a LOT worse by inconsiderate lorry drivers coasting up to 70mph or more.
Factors to make it worse
Strong cross winds, if you do not expect them they can cause havok
Lorries & coaches overtaking, they produce huge bow waves which can make it very unnerving on motorways, especially when they have removed their limiters (quite common - get one per long trip quite often).
idiots in cars, this caused my only significant snake, I pulled out to pass a lorry and an impatient TIC went up the inside pulled in front of me and I had to swerve to miss him.
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It matters not how often the 'van is serviced/MOT'd .. if the idiot behind the wheel decides to overload it then drive at 70 mph on a windy day.
90% of 'van "incidents" are driver error.
Actually, statistically there are not that many 'van accidents .. it's just that those that occur
a) look messy as the 'van disintegrates - not "impact" designed like a car
b) cause disruption that gets publicity
c) are pounced on by the anti-van brigade.
AFAIK there are more "incidents" caused by foreign LGV drivers than 'vans ... but that doesn't sell papers does it .. :-/ :-/ :-/
I would happily have mine MOT'd, BTW ... not against that, just don't see the point .... unless you like helping Gordon the Moron raise money .... :(
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It will come! Give the EU chance.
One of the better things I have observed here in Spain is the MOT system. Fewer places, hugely efficient - all Government run (no axe to grind etc).
Larger trailers are already MOT'd and I believe that applies to caravans too. The farmers around here carry caterpillar tractors on trailers and so it is reasonable that they are serviceable.
All new trailers have VIN numbers and you get a log book even for sub 750Kg non braked jobs.
varche
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In fact I think all braked trailers should be tested.
This is probably a sensible compromise. A sub-750kg trailer is not going to make a huge mess whatever happens, as long as it remains attached to the towing vehicle. It's a different story for a twin-axle caravan.
Add to that the fact that, if left in a field for 50 weeks of the year, the braking system on a trailer WILL sieze up and fail, if it's not maintained to some degree, and a working braking system is key to the safety of larger trailers.
I'm sure there are plenty of mechanically disinterested trailer owners who will happily drive them until they get a blowout / a hub falls off due to wheel bearing failure. Having said that, if the problem were as bad as is percieved, wouldn't insurers be pressing for a solution?
Kevin
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if the problem were as bad as is percieved, wouldn't insurers be pressing for a solution? ....
Some insurers make a service stap a stipulation of cover. But you don't legally require a separate insurance policy on your 'van.
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if the problem were as bad as is percieved, wouldn't insurers be pressing for a solution? ....
Some insurers make a service stap a stipulation of cover. But you don't legally require a separate insurance policy on your 'van.
You need it on the car, though, and I'm sure car insurance companies take a big hit when there's a serious towing accident.
Kevin
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You need it on the car, though, and I'm sure car insurance companies take a big hit when there's a serious towing accident.
Kevin
Ah! I see what you mean now. ;) :y
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if the problem were as bad as is percieved, wouldn't insurers be pressing for a solution? ....
Some insurers make a service stap a stipulation of cover. But you don't legally require a separate insurance policy on your 'van.
You need it on the car, though, and I'm sure car insurance companies take a big hit when there's a serious towing accident.
Kevin
AFAIK there is no requirement to inform the insurance company that you intend to tow, it is part of the coverage "by law" .... I have always told my insurers that I have a towbar fitted as a "modification", and that i use it regularly .. but they just ignore it.
Perhaps compulsory "trailer insurance" that the insurers could put "controls" on like no claim discounts, service criterea, weight limits etc etc would actually achieve more than an MOT which is only valid for the 15 seconds it takes the ink to dry.....
An MOT in January will have no relevance to a 'van/trailer that has been parked up unserviced but suddenly used the next October !!
Just my thoughts .. :)
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My big issue is that there are loads of vans out there that are parked up for 6 months and then just taken on the road.
They need servicing at the beginning of each season and checking over as the tyres are often mega old (or even the wrong sort!) and the brakes tend to seize (and are fickle buggers to setup at the best of times) that plus chassis rot and the need to replace hub nuts following work means that many get VERY neglected.
Very recently a friend bought a pikey wagon and had the wheel fall off.....luckily they were just slowing down and were only doing about 10 mph or it could have been very nasty!
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Seen one or two incidents involving caravans and not all related to the state of the caravan or part of it. Some two cars I've seen have had a blow outs causing untold damage to the caravan.
A friend had two new tyres fitted to his caravan (on the advice of the service agent) before his trip to Devon. On the way back he had a blow out on one of the new tyres, and these weren't cheap brand jobs either.
I agree on a safety check or annual service for the caravan as in my opinion it's mostly tyres or hubs that fail, especially on older vans having been stood over winter.
Mine gets serviced annually and the tyres checked before each trip, what more can you do. Stuff still happens on our roads that I have witnessed relating to bad driving and overloading etc.... how do you keep a check on that.
Mick
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Fully agree Mark .. but an MOT won't prevent that ... it might stop some of the 10 year old tyres and rusted through brake rods ... but it won't prevent siezed up things and numpty drivers.
The annoying thing to me is we regular users, who generally have the best serviced/maintained vehicles because we USE them ... get lumbered with the same reputation as the "1 week a year" boys .. :(
BTW very few 'vans suffer "chassis rot" as they are mostly aluminium these days .. :) floor delamination, side wall damp/rot, corroded electrics .... yup .. but not "chassis rot" ....... ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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In my personal experiences of attending accidents involving caravans the most common cause of accidents is human error. Be that in the form of poor loading, erratic driving or just plain old speeding! In fact, I would say that fewer than 1 in 10 was down to the poor condition of the offending van!
That said, I'm still willing to comply with a safety check as long as it was priced sensibly! You only have to look at the official price of an MOT these days to appreciate that anything of that nature is seen as easy money by the powers that be :o :o
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In my personal experiences of attending accidents involving caravans the most common cause of accidents is human error. Be that in the form of poor loading, erratic driving or just plain old speeding! In fact, I would say that fewer than 1 in 10 was down to the poor condition of the offending van!
That said, I'm still willing to comply with a safety check as long as it was priced sensibly! You only have to look at the official price of an MOT these days to appreciate that anything of that nature is seen as easy money by the powers that be :o :o
This is an issue, and as someone who occasionally tows 3 trailers that are seldom used if the cost to MOT each one got anything like as high as a car MOT I would not be happy. However, to cover the scope of "things that can ruin your day" it would only need to cover the hitch and safety devices, brakes, bearings, suspension, tyres, structure and lighting.
Of course, testing stations would need a special brake tester for trailers, etc. etc. so it would end up costly. It would also undoubtedly end up getting loaded with other stuff from the EU... gas installations, etc.
Kevin
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Fully agree Mark .. but an MOT won't prevent that ... it might stop some of the 10 year old tyres and rusted through brake rods ... but it won't prevent siezed up things and numpty drivers.
The annoying thing to me is we regular users, who generally have the best serviced/maintained vehicles because we USE them ... get lumbered with the same reputation as the "1 week a year" boys .. :(
BTW very few 'vans suffer "chassis rot" as they are mostly aluminium these days .. :) floor delamination, side wall damp/rot, corroded electrics .... yup .. but not "chassis rot" ....... ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
You would think that but, they went aluminium in the 90's and then went back to steel shortly after (some manufacturers) before going back to aluminium in the late 90's again.
Thing is, your looking to cover all braked trailers on the road....and some of them are right old nails (note I say trailers....)
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As someone who tows both a trailer, and a caravan, I personaly get my caravan checked bi-annualy, ie: gas/electric/water checked one year, and wheels/brakes/coupling/suspension the next, on a rolling basis.
The caravan gets frequent use from March through to October, before being 'laid up' on the forecourt, using 'winter wheel stands' and the wheels/tyres stored inside out of the way.
The trailer gets a lot more use, is only 5' x 3', but gets an annual 'check over' by myself, and a check over EVERY time I use it.
Having towed various caravans for over fifteen years, with a variety of cars, I have yet to have an accident. Most of the accidents appear to be due to incorrect loading, or innapropriate combinations of van/car.
Having a wife and children to consider, it costs so little to have checks done, in relation to the cost of an accident.
I pay £50 for a mechanical check, (brakes,suspension,coupling,chassis) and £60 for 'habitation' (gas, leccy etc) plus the cost of any parts, which to me, is a small price to pay for peace of mind.
Not sure if a MOT if the right way to go, but some form of paperwork to show that reasonable checks/repairs have been carried out/done seems a sensible way to go.
BTW, I informed my insurance company that I towed both a trailer, and a caravan, and they didn't seem bothered, but it may pay to let them know just in case..
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My original though behind this was not to imply caravans were unsafe or driver by people that are not fit to tow, just to look at the safety aspect.
We are most likely different in our approach to cars and maintaining them due to our interest, not everyone shares our diligence, and the same could be said, i would imagine, for members of the caravan fraternity, and it is these that this test would be beneficial.
administering it and policing it could be a nightmare, but then so can clearing up he mess of one that has disintergrated on a major A road or motorway.....
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As someone who tows both a trailer, and a caravan, I personaly get my caravan checked bi-annualy, ie: gas/electric/water checked one year, and wheels/brakes/coupling/suspension the next, on a rolling basis.
The caravan gets frequent use from March through to October, before being 'laid up' on the forecourt, using 'winter wheel stands' and the wheels/tyres stored inside out of the way.
The trailer gets a lot more use, is only 5' x 3', but gets an annual 'check over' by myself, and a check over EVERY time I use it.
Having towed various caravans for over fifteen years, with a variety of cars, I have yet to have an accident. Most of the accidents appear to be due to incorrect loading, or innapropriate combinations of van/car.
Having a wife and children to consider, it costs so little to have checks done, in relation to the cost of an accident.
I pay £50 for a mechanical check, (brakes,suspension,coupling,chassis) and £60 for 'habitation' (gas, leccy etc) plus the cost of any parts, which to me, is a small price to pay for peace of mind.
Not sure if a MOT if the right way to go, but some form of paperwork to show that reasonable checks/repairs have been carried out/done seems a sensible way to go.
BTW, I informed my insurance company that I towed both a trailer, and a caravan, and they didn't seem bothered, but it may pay to let them know just in case..
If you have your 'van serviced at an "Approved Service Centre" IAW the manufacturers schedule then a small sticker is placed on the side of the drawbar fairing.
I have seen Mr Plod checking 'vans and was stopped early this year (A38), they checked for the sticker .. looked inside (no loads down the middle of my vans), and wished me a safe jorney... :) Okay its a newish van, a decent towcar, and was obviously not overloaded. I think the 2008 service sticker helped.
Now I know a lot of folks think dealer servicing is a) a rip off, b) unneccessary, c) They'll always find "something" .... but I have to have it done as part of the warranty (so if they find any problems I don't pay for the rectification anyway . :) ) and £120 a year to safeguard my families lives and a £15000 investment seems reasonable to me.
:)