Omega Owners Forum

Chat Area => General Car Chat => Topic started by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 16 May 2025, 11:30:02

Title: Who owns a milk float on here?
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 16 May 2025, 11:30:02
I'd like to pick their brains.

But the only one I can think of is Jimmy. If memory serves I think he bought an electric BMW that fell from the ugly tree and hit every branch on the way down. >:D

Title: Re: Who owns a milk float on here?
Post by: Sir Tigger KC on 16 May 2025, 11:37:00
I sense the Lord Opti EV window is shifting.  :)
Title: Re: Who owns a milk float on here?
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 16 May 2025, 11:39:09
I sense the Lord Opti EV window is shifting.  :)

Not my car. I just have to tolerate it. :)

All cars should be petrol by order of the big man who lives in the sky. ;)
Title: Re: Who owns a milk float on here?
Post by: Viral_Jim on 16 May 2025, 11:45:30
Yes, I am the proud lessee of Munich's most aesthetically challenged motor. Previously I've had an e-golf and an id3. Probably around 70k miles combined over the three cars.

What would you like to know?


As for other forum ev users, I seem to recall that DTM bloke ran an i-pace for a period of time, and is probably intimately acquainted with its internals through work.  :y
Title: Re: Who owns a milk float on here?
Post by: Sir Tigger KC on 16 May 2025, 11:48:00
I wonder how long it will be before you trade your BMW for something like an electric Porsche with warp speed like acceleration?  8)

Title: Re: Who owns a milk float on here?
Post by: GastronomicKleptomaniac on 16 May 2025, 11:58:33
Had a new shape Leaf as a bifffabout car at work. Hated it. Felt like it had been designed by a team of people who didn't like cars, driving  or each other 
Title: Re: Who owns a milk float on here?
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 16 May 2025, 12:01:27
Yes, I am the proud lessee of Munich's most aesthetically challenged motor. Previously I've had an e-golf and an id3. Probably around 70k miles combined over the three cars.

What would you like to know?


As for other forum ev users, I seem to recall that DTM bloke ran an i-pace for a period of time, and is probably intimately acquainted with its internals through work.  :y

Well, I know next to SFA about milk floats, Jimmy. Something I share in common with many other topics.  ::)

I've just discovered the car comes with a heat pump (something I hear doesn't work very well even in our home homes, yet the government, and mad Ed Milliband in particular, wants us all to install one) How does this work in the context of a car.

Also, it comes with an onboard 11KW charger for use when away from home. What is the point of this when even 50KW charging is seen as glacial in 2025.
Title: Re: Who owns a milk float on here?
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 16 May 2025, 12:04:00
I wonder how long it will be before you trade your BMW for something like an electric Porsche with warp speed like acceleration?  8)

I have to admit that the new 1000BHP Taycan has a certain appeal. Apparently it drives like a proper car.
Title: Re: Who owns a milk float on here?
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 16 May 2025, 12:08:52
Had a new shape Leaf as a bifffabout car at work. Hated it. Felt like it had been designed by a team of people who didn't like cars, driving  or each other

Yep.....a car designed by people who have no interest in cars for people who have no interest in cars. :-X

Committee car. :-X
Title: Re: Who owns a milk float on here?
Post by: Sir Tigger KC on 16 May 2025, 12:33:25
I wonder how long it will be before you trade your BMW for something like an electric Porsche with warp speed like acceleration?  8)

I have to admit that the new 1000BHP Taycan has a certain appeal. Apparently it drives like a proper car.

I followed and electric Porsche once on a duel carriageway and when he accelerated off a roundabout up a steep hill, he must have been doing 60 or 70 by the time I got into second!  :o  :)

Never seen anything like it, I was just like Wow! Look at that thing go!  8)
Title: Re: Who owns a milk float on here?
Post by: Migv6 le Frog Fan on 16 May 2025, 12:45:04
If you join up to the Autoshite forum, there are lots of threads, discussion, info about them in the modern section there.
Theres even a bloke who buys them up and sells them on.
If my little C1 gives up the ghost in the next two or three years I may well buy a cheap used one to take advantage of the free charging at work.
Title: Re: Who owns a milk float on here?
Post by: LC0112G on 16 May 2025, 12:58:27

I've just discovered the car comes with a heat pump (something I hear doesn't work very well even in our home homes, yet the government, and mad Ed Milliband in particular, wants us all to install one) How does this work in the context of a car.


A heat pump is just an inside out fridge.

If you look at the back of your fridge/freezer, you'll see a black radiator. That black radiator gets hot. The inside of the fridge/freezer gets cold. The whole thing runs on electricity. 

So in thermodynamic terms what happens is you put in (say) 1 watt of energy to the fridge motor. That 1W of motor energy ultimatley ends up as heat somewhere. However, the motor is pumping a gas around the system, which extracts energy from the inside of the fridge (it gets colder) and dumps that energy into the back radiator (it gets hotter). So say it extracts one watt of energy from the inside of the fridge, and dumps that 1w into the radiator.

We now have a system where putting 1W of electrical energy in results in 1W of cooling, and 2W of heat (1W in the motor, 1W in the radiator). So we are 'making' more heat that the energy we are putting in. We are 'pumping heat' out of the fridge into the atmosphere.  The figure of merit is called COP (Coefficient of Performance) An electric heater has a COP of 1. You put 1W of electricity in, you'll get (almost) 1W of heat out. With a heat pump you can get COPs of 3 or more. Put in 1W of electrical energy and you can get 3W (or more) of heat out.

So now mount the fridge in your wall, with the door open to the outside world, and the radiator part inside your house. Turn it on. You will be pumping heat from the outside world into your home. You won't be able to cool the outside world, so the 'inside' of the fridge won't get noticibly colder.

There are also semi-conductor based heat pump devices - called Peltiers. Here is a datasheet for one https://tark-solutions.com/products/thermoelectric-cooler-modules/peltier-cp-series/CP2-127-06-L1-W4.5 . These don't need a pump, plumbing and gas. They are totally solid state with no moving parts, and you can get COP's in the 3-4 region. What happens is when you apply power, one side of the device gets cold, and the other side gets hot. The hot side gets hotter than the cold side gets cold, because you're 'pumping' energy (heat) from one side to the other.

Peltiers are reversible. If you swap the power the other way round, then the 'hot side' gets cold, and the 'cold side' gets hot. You can therefore put one side of peltier inside the heater (HVAC box), and use it to either heat or cool the air entering the cabin.
Title: Re: Who owns a milk float on here?
Post by: ronnyd on 16 May 2025, 13:57:57

I've just discovered the car comes with a heat pump (something I hear doesn't work very well even in our home homes, yet the government, and mad Ed Milliband in particular, wants us all to install one) How does this work in the context of a car.


A heat pump is just an inside out fridge.

If you look at the back of your fridge/freezer, you'll see a black radiator. That black radiator gets hot. The inside of the fridge/freezer gets cold. The whole thing runs on electricity. 

So in thermodynamic terms what happens is you put in (say) 1 watt of energy to the fridge motor. That 1W of motor energy ultimatley ends up as heat somewhere. However, the motor is pumping a gas around the system, which extracts energy from the inside of the fridge (it gets colder) and dumps that energy into the back radiator (it gets hotter). So say it extracts one watt of energy from the inside of the fridge, and dumps that 1w into the radiator.

We now have a system where putting 1W of electrical energy in results in 1W of cooling, and 2W of heat (1W in the motor, 1W in the radiator). So we are 'making' more heat that the energy we are putting in. We are 'pumping heat' out of the fridge into the atmosphere.  The figure of merit is called COP (Coefficient of Performance) An electric heater has a COP of 1. You put 1W of electricity in, you'll get (almost) 1W of heat out. With a heat pump you can get COPs of 3 or more. Put in 1W of electrical energy and you can get 3W (or more) of heat out.

So now mount the fridge in your wall, with the door open to the outside world, and the radiator part inside your house. Turn it on. You will be pumping heat from the outside world into your home. You won't be able to cool the outside world, so the 'inside' of the fridge won't get noticibly colder.

There are also semi-conductor based heat pump devices - called Peltiers. Here is a datasheet for one https://tark-solutions.com/products/thermoelectric-cooler-modules/peltier-cp-series/CP2-127-06-L1-W4.5 . These don't need a pump, plumbing and gas. They are totally solid state with no moving parts, and you can get COP's in the 3-4 region. What happens is when you apply power, one side of the device gets cold, and the other side gets hot. The hot side gets hotter than the cold side gets cold, because you're 'pumping' energy (heat) from one side to the other.

Peltiers are reversible. If you swap the power the other way round, then the 'hot side' gets cold, and the 'cold side' gets hot. You can therefore put one side of peltier inside the heater (HVAC box), and use it to either heat or cool the air entering the cabin.
Que?  :D Joking aside, that is very informative.  :y
Title: Re: Who owns a milk float on here?
Post by: TheBoy on 16 May 2025, 14:40:54
There are also semi-conductor based heat pump devices - called Peltiers. Here is a datasheet for one https://tark-solutions.com/products/thermoelectric-cooler-modules/peltier-cp-series/CP2-127-06-L1-W4.5 . These don't need a pump, plumbing and gas. They are totally solid state with no moving parts, and you can get COP's in the 3-4 region. What happens is when you apply power, one side of the device gets cold, and the other side gets hot. The hot side gets hotter than the cold side gets cold, because you're 'pumping' energy (heat) from one side to the other.

Peltiers are reversible. If you swap the power the other way round, then the 'hot side' gets cold, and the 'cold side' gets hot. You can therefore put one side of peltier inside the heater (HVAC box), and use it to either heat or cool the air entering the cabin.
And thats how heated and cooled seats work if you have a posh car, or clapped out 2010 Jaguar....
Title: Re: Who owns a milk float on here?
Post by: Viral_Jim on 16 May 2025, 14:52:07

Well, I know next to SFA about milk floats, Jimmy. Something I share in common with many other topics.  ::)

I've just discovered the car comes with a heat pump (something I hear doesn't work very well even in our home homes, yet the government, and mad Ed Milliband in particular, wants us all to install one) How does this work in the context of a car.

Also, it comes with an onboard 11KW charger for use when away from home. What is the point of this when even 50KW charging is seen as glacial in 2025.

To add to what LC0112G said regarding heat pumps, their purpose on an ev is to extend the range during cold weather. This can add as much as 10% to the range and work well in the UK where we don't often get *really* cold weather. Its something I would look for if I were to be looking to push the range  of the car on a regular basis. If its just a second car for knocking about in, I wouldn't worry about it.

In general, I would say regarding range, look up on the 'net what people are getting in the real world and use that as your guide. I'm sure I will get derided on here for saying it, but battery degradation really isn't the issue that most non-ev drivers would have you believe. As an example, I follow a guy on youtube that runs Cleeveley EV - they are an independent EV servicing company that run a fleet of converted MG5 estate cars as their 'vans. The degradation on those seems to be about 10-12% at 100,000 miles and about 18-20% at 200,000. Considering the average mileage of a scrapped car in the UK is around 125,000 its not that big a deal. Also, as more EVs hit the road, the used packs become cheaper to buy. The exception to this general comment is nissan leafs, they don't have any facility to actively manage the temperature of the battery packs, so their battery degradation can be significantly more severe.

To answer your point about the 11kw charger, this is actually how much power the AC-to-DC inverter can handle. 11kw is only any use if you have access to a 3 phase supply, otherwise the max is 7kw. Where these make a lot of sense is workplace car parks, for example here we have some 7kw and some 11kw charging posts and the difference is noticeable. We get told to shift our cars after 3hrs in the charge bays to let other people charge so the higher power rating makes a big difference then.

Being honest its extremely rare I use public DC rapid charging, probably two or three times in the last 11 months / 23,000 miles. When I do I find taht anything over 100kw is fast enough. Starting out with about 200-220 miles on the BMW, taking 15-20mins will add 100 ish miles and its rare I would want to do more than 300 miles in a day. Again if its your only car this may not hold true, but given the average mileage driven in the UK is about 8000 per year, it would certainly apply to most people.

Overall I like EVs very much for daily commuting. The BMW is good for overtaking and quick enough for a family bus. It isn't "fun", but neither is any SUV, short of a RR sport SVR, its not designed to be.


Tried it before I signed up for the BMW (although mine would have been the boggo 400bhp version) but my ar$e didn't fit in the seats, so it was a non starter. If I had my own and could throw some VW golf seats in, I might be tempted  8).
I wonder how long it will be before you trade your BMW for something like an electric Porsche with warp speed like acceleration?  8)


I'm also now divorced and really don't want to work past my mid 50's so I suspect I might end up with something a bit more modest as my next car (iPace looks tempting, but I'd want to chat to that DTM bloke first as I know they had some battery issues).
Title: Re: Who owns a milk float on here?
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 16 May 2025, 16:34:48

Well, I know next to SFA about milk floats, Jimmy. Something I share in common with many other topics.  ::)

I've just discovered the car comes with a heat pump (something I hear doesn't work very well even in our home homes, yet the government, and mad Ed Milliband in particular, wants us all to install one) How does this work in the context of a car.

Also, it comes with an onboard 11KW charger for use when away from home. What is the point of this when even 50KW charging is seen as glacial in 2025.

To add to what LC0112G said regarding heat pumps, their purpose on an ev is to extend the range during cold weather. This can add as much as 10% to the range and work well in the UK where we don't often get *really* cold weather. Its something I would look for if I were to be looking to push the range  of the car on a regular basis. If its just a second car for knocking about in, I wouldn't worry about it.

In general, I would say regarding range, look up on the 'net what people are getting in the real world and use that as your guide. I'm sure I will get derided on here for saying it, but battery degradation really isn't the issue that most non-ev drivers would have you believe. As an example, I follow a guy on youtube that runs Cleeveley EV - they are an independent EV servicing company that run a fleet of converted MG5 estate cars as their 'vans. The degradation on those seems to be about 10-12% at 100,000 miles and about 18-20% at 200,000. Considering the average mileage of a scrapped car in the UK is around 125,000 its not that big a deal. Also, as more EVs hit the road, the used packs become cheaper to buy. The exception to this general comment is nissan leafs, they don't have any facility to actively manage the temperature of the battery packs, so their battery degradation can be significantly more severe.

To answer your point about the 11kw charger, this is actually how much power the AC-to-DC inverter can handle. 11kw is only any use if you have access to a 3 phase supply, otherwise the max is 7kw. Where these make a lot of sense is workplace car parks, for example here we have some 7kw and some 11kw charging posts and the difference is noticeable. We get told to shift our cars after 3hrs in the charge bays to let other people charge so the higher power rating makes a big difference then.

Being honest its extremely rare I use public DC rapid charging, probably two or three times in the last 11 months / 23,000 miles. When I do I find taht anything over 100kw is fast enough. Starting out with about 200-220 miles on the BMW, taking 15-20mins will add 100 ish miles and its rare I would want to do more than 300 miles in a day. Again if its your only car this may not hold true, but given the average mileage driven in the UK is about 8000 per year, it would certainly apply to most people.

Overall I like EVs very much for daily commuting. The BMW is good for overtaking and quick enough for a family bus. It isn't "fun", but neither is any SUV, short of a RR sport SVR, its not designed to be.


Tried it before I signed up for the BMW (although mine would have been the boggo 400bhp version) but my ar$e didn't fit in the seats, so it was a non starter. If I had my own and could throw some VW golf seats in, I might be tempted  8).
I wonder how long it will be before you trade your BMW for something like an electric Porsche with warp speed like acceleration?  8)


I'm also now divorced and really don't want to work past my mid 50's so I suspect I might end up with something a bit more modest as my next car (iPace looks tempting, but I'd want to chat to that DTM bloke first as I know they had some battery issues).


There was a bit of a stand off between Mrs Opti and me.

She wanted an electric Mini/Bini convertible. I told her that as well as women drivers these cars were also driven by male hairdressers who wear leather jeans with a zipper at the back. Proper LGBT stuff.

So we came to a compromise with something she was happy to drive, and I could also drive without embarrassment if the need arose.

Title: Re: Who owns a milk float on here?
Post by: Sir Tigger KC on 16 May 2025, 16:49:36
So c'mon. What is Mrs Opti getting?  ???
Title: Re: Who owns a milk float on here?
Post by: STEMO on 16 May 2025, 17:10:47
So c'mon. What is Mrs Opti getting?  ???
Oh dear, you're playing his game  ::)
Title: Re: Who owns a milk float on here?
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 16 May 2025, 17:16:11
So c'mon. What is Mrs Opti getting?  ???

Well....Sir Tigger.

Car was registered 1st March 2025 so wears 25 plate. She has just 12 delivery miles on the clock.

Dual motors so performance is reasonable, but not proper fast like a Tesla or Porsche Taycan. Middling grunt.

Built in Austria.....and the car has already been mentioned a couple of times by people on this thread.

Easy. ;)

......oh and from next year this manufacturer will only sell cars to homosexuals and women with a penis. ;D ;D



Title: Re: Who owns a milk float on here?
Post by: Migv6 le Frog Fan on 16 May 2025, 18:37:03
Jaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaag.  :)
Title: Re: Who owns a milk float on here?
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 16 May 2025, 19:32:23
Jaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaag.  :)

Yeeaaahhh.....what clinched it was that it's presented in the same Italian racing red as my old XFR 5.0S/C.......although for some unknown reason Jag now call it Firenze red.

I have absolutely no idea why they changed the name. ???
Title: Re: Who owns a milk float on here?
Post by: Sir Tigger KC on 16 May 2025, 19:55:32
So c'mon. What is Mrs Opti getting?  ???

Well....Sir Tigger.

Car was registered 1st March 2025 so wears 25 plate. She has just 12 delivery miles on the clock.

Dual motors so performance is reasonable, but not proper fast like a Tesla or Porsche Taycan. Middling grunt.

Built in Austria.....and the car has already been mentioned a couple of times by people on this thread.

Easy. ;)

......oh and from next year this manufacturer will only sell cars to homosexuals and women with a penis. ;D ;D

So when you drive it you will identify as a lesbian woman with a penis?  ;D
Title: Re: Who owns a milk float on here?
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 16 May 2025, 20:00:14
So c'mon. What is Mrs Opti getting?  ???

Well....Sir Tigger.

Car was registered 1st March 2025 so wears 25 plate. She has just 12 delivery miles on the clock.

Dual motors so performance is reasonable, but not proper fast like a Tesla or Porsche Taycan. Middling grunt.

Built in Austria.....and the car has already been mentioned a couple of times by people on this thread.

Easy. ;)

......oh and from next year this manufacturer will only sell cars to homosexuals and women with a penis. ;D ;D

So when you drive it you will identify as a lesbian woman with a penis?  ;D
Yes.....a person with a penis who is attracted to women. I'm sure there used to be a name for that which wasn't lesbian. >:D
Title: Re: Who owns a milk float on here?
Post by: TheBoy on 16 May 2025, 20:05:12
......oh and from next year this manufacturer will only sell cars to homosexuals and women with a penis. ;D ;D
I'm led to believe they are in the process of dumping their ad agency....


We all know Jaaaaggs should be driven by virile men who never pay for anything....
Title: Re: Who owns a milk float on here?
Post by: Sir Tigger KC on 16 May 2025, 21:08:42
So c'mon. What is Mrs Opti getting?  ???

Well....Sir Tigger.

Car was registered 1st March 2025 so wears 25 plate. She has just 12 delivery miles on the clock.

Dual motors so performance is reasonable, but not proper fast like a Tesla or Porsche Taycan. Middling grunt.

Built in Austria.....and the car has already been mentioned a couple of times by people on this thread.

Easy. ;)

......oh and from next year this manufacturer will only sell cars to homosexuals and women with a penis. ;D ;D

So when you drive it you will identify as a lesbian woman with a penis?  ;D
Yes.....a person with a penis who is attracted to women. I'm sure there used to be a name for that which wasn't lesbian. >:D

That's just not how it works these days M'Lud.  ::)

You can identify as a homosexual, a woman with a penis or both, which means you are a lesbian.  :)
Title: Re: Who owns a milk float on here?
Post by: YZ250 on 16 May 2025, 21:34:55
So c'mon. What is Mrs Opti getting?  ???
……..
Built in Austria.....and the car has already been mentioned a couple of times by people on this thread.
…….

I thought the I-Pace had been discontinued due to poor sales and software issues, or have I got the wrong Jag.  :-\
Title: Re: Who owns a milk float on here?
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 16 May 2025, 23:37:37
So c'mon. What is Mrs Opti getting?  ???
……..
Built in Austria.....and the car has already been mentioned a couple of times by people on this thread.
…….

I thought the I-Pace had been discontinued due to poor sales and software issues, or have I got the wrong Jag.  :-\
They've got to shift the ones they've already built...
Title: Re: Who owns a milk float on here?
Post by: Andy B on 17 May 2025, 08:53:22
I was killing time the other day in the local shopping centre where there were BYD cars on display. I know nothing about them but have to say the interior of the "Sealion" was quite impressive  (other than the iPad type dash  :-X)
Title: Re: Who owns a milk float on here?
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 17 May 2025, 11:23:41
So c'mon. What is Mrs Opti getting?  ???
……..
Built in Austria.....and the car has already been mentioned a couple of times by people on this thread.
…….

I thought the I-Pace had been discontinued due to poor sales and software issues, or have I got the wrong Jag.  :-\

They have.

They've been around since 2019 but have been updated 2 or 3 times in that period. The early I-Pace would only charge at 50KW.....later cars 100KW.

Mrs Opti's car is an HSE model with all the bells and whistles. With the options an £84,000 car 2 years ago.....A £60,000 car 1 year ago.

Now on a 25 plate available for 45% of the original cost with just 12 miles on the clock.I thought 'f*uck it' why not.





Title: Re: Who owns a milk float on here?
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 17 May 2025, 11:28:45
I was killing time the other day in the local shopping centre where there were BYD cars on display. I know nothing about them but have to say the interior of the "Sealion" was quite impressive  (other than the iPad type dash  :-X)

We had a look. They are quite well made for a 'chinky' car but look closely and you will see where costs have been cut.

Dual  motor top model is around £70,000 which you'd be mad to pay.
Title: Re: Who owns a milk float on here?
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 17 May 2025, 11:33:16
It's probably a 2 year old car in reality so the discount is basically the depreciation and an element of market correction.

The Vin tag on the door frame will show the build date. I would be quite surprised if it wasn't early 24.
Title: Re: Who owns a milk float on here?
Post by: YZ250 on 17 May 2025, 11:41:48
So c'mon. What is Mrs Opti getting?  ???
……..
Built in Austria.....and the car has already been mentioned a couple of times by people on this thread.
…….

I thought the I-Pace had been discontinued due to poor sales and software issues, or have I got the wrong Jag.  :-\

They have.

They've been around since 2019 but have been updated 2 or 3 times in that period. The early I-Pace would only charge at 50KW.....later cars 100KW.

Mrs Opti's car is an HSE model with all the bells and whistles. With the options an £84,000 car 2 years ago.....A £60,000 car 1 year ago.

Now on a 25 plate available for 45% of the original cost with just 12 miles on the clock.I thought 'f*uck it' why not.

Ah yes, wasn’t it the I-Pace from 2018-2019 build year with the LG batteries that Jaguar offered to buy back from customers due to unresolved overheating and fire risk.
Hope Mrs Opti is pleased with it.  :y
Title: Re: Who owns a milk float on here?
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 17 May 2025, 11:43:34
It's probably a 2 year old car in reality so the discount is basically the depreciation and an element of market correction.

The Vin tag on the door frame will show the build date. I would be quite surprised if it wasn't early 24.

Build date was about 7 months ago so one of the last actually assembled. I know it didn't roll off the production line last week.

For comparison my M240i has a build date (Mexico) of February 2023 and the car was registered early June 2023.

Three year Jag warranty runs from March 1st 2025 to March 1st 2028. I'm happy with that for the money.

I'm now waiting for you to tell me an elderly Mercedes would be better in every respect. ::) ;)

Title: Re: Who owns a milk float on here?
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 17 May 2025, 11:51:17
Well, it would do you a disservice not to mention it >:D

It didn't take long to get from "I'm not driving a milkfloat" to "We've bought one to share". ;D
Title: Re: Who owns a milk float on here?
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 17 May 2025, 11:52:42
Speaking of build dates as opposed to registration dates.

Jimbob discovered my last 2.6 MV6 Omega rolled off the production line in Germany in June 2002, but the car was registered in December 2003. It was fine.

But imagine taking a BL car from the seventies that had been standing in a muddy field for 2 years due to industrial action.

F*uck all in the way of rust protection probably meant the car was rusty when it's new owner took delivery. >:D


Title: Re: Who owns a milk float on here?
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 17 May 2025, 11:57:43
Well, it would do you a disservice not to mention it >:D

It didn't take long to get from "I'm not driving a milkfloat" to "We've bought one to share". ;D

Obviously at some point I will drive it, but it's not my car, or my choice of car. There is a little Germanic coupe I can drive.....and I may even buy another Signum. :D ;D

.....although not with a £735 taxable 2.8 V6 turbo. :)
Title: Re: Who owns a milk float on here?
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 17 May 2025, 11:59:19
My '54 Omega was built in June '03. But it was purchased in July'03 to sit in stock until TVP needed it. Not quite the same thing as flogging off old production stock as a new car.

7 months is better than I thought though :y. Think TPC was a couple of weeks between build and registration, although it was built to order and collected from the factory.
Title: Re: Who owns a milk float on here?
Post by: Andy B on 17 May 2025, 13:35:50
......

But imagine taking a BL car from the seventies that had been standing in a muddy field for 2 years due to industrial action.

F*uck all in the way of rust protection probably meant the car was rusty when it's new owner took delivery. >:D

Iirc that's what Lancia did  .... they just cleaned them up & painted as needed and gave them a special edition name. Lancia name then became no more in the UK.
Title: Re: Who owns a milk float on here?
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 17 May 2025, 13:44:41
......

But imagine taking a BL car from the seventies that had been standing in a muddy field for 2 years due to industrial action.

F*uck all in the way of rust protection probably meant the car was rusty when it's new owner took delivery. >:D

Iirc that's what Lancia did .... they just cleaned them up & painted as needed and gave them a special edition name. Lancia name then became no more in the UK.

Yep...... It was the Beta if memory serves.

Quick rub down then a few minutes with the rattle can and she was as good as new to the unsuspecting new owner. :)
Title: Re: Who owns a milk float on here?
Post by: Sir Tigger KC on 17 May 2025, 14:10:54
Well, it would do you a disservice not to mention it >:D

It didn't take long to get from "I'm not driving a milkfloat" to "We've bought one to share". ;D

Obviously at some point I will drive it, but it's not my car, or my choice of car. There is a little Germanic coupe I can drive.....and I may even buy another Signum. :D ;D

.....although not with a £735 taxable 2.8 V6 turbo. :)

If you're after another hack modern classic, Uncle STEMO's dealers have a 2.2i Vectra.  :y

https://www.modusmotorcompany.co.uk/used-cars/vauxhall-vectra-2-2i-16v-cd-5dr-knottingley-202406221007344
Title: Re: Who owns a milk float on here?
Post by: grifter on 03 June 2025, 21:57:10
Could go for a wales and edwards rangemaster!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wales_%26_Edwards#/media/File:Dairy_Crest_Ex_Unigate_Wales_And_Edwards_Rangemaster_Milk_Float.jpg
Title: Re: Who owns a milk float on here?
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 04 June 2025, 12:45:21
Could go for a wales and edwards rangemaster!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wales_%26_Edwards#/media/File:Dairy_Crest_Ex_Unigate_Wales_And_Edwards_Rangemaster_Milk_Float.jpg


I imagine the last thing that contraption has any 'mastery' over is range.  >:D
Title: Re: Who owns a milk float on here?
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 04 June 2025, 12:49:30
Being an EV virgin I'm disappointed to find to find there is such a thing as 'charging losses' when charging a milk float.

I assumed a 90 KW battery would take exactly 90KW of elastic trickery to go from flat as a witches tit to fully charged.

Nope. ::)
Title: Re: Who owns a milk float on here?
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 04 June 2025, 13:28:31
Not that surprising - there will be losses in the cables and the inverter, all producing a nice load of heat, its not massive from a percentage perspective but when you are talking tens of kilowatts, it does add up
Title: Re: Who owns a milk float on here?
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 04 June 2025, 13:38:59
Not that surprising - there will be losses in the cables and the inverter, all producing a nice load of heat, its not massive from a percentage perspective but when you are talking tens of kilowatts, it does add up

Yep. I did read that a shorter charge cable helps reduce losses a little, although I'm not sure how true that is.

Anyway, I charged it from 15% to 92% for exactly £18 using standard price electricity (24p per KW).This gave an extra 200miles of range. Not sure how that works out when compared to petrol or derv.
Title: Re: Who owns a milk float on here?
Post by: Mr Skrunts on 04 June 2025, 14:14:39
Not that surprising - there will be losses in the cables and the inverter, all producing a nice load of heat, its not massive from a percentage perspective but when you are talking tens of kilowatts, it does add up

Yep. I did read that a shorter charge cable helps reduce losses a little, although I'm not sure how true that is.

Anyway, I charged it from 15% to 92% for exactly £18 using standard price electricity (24p per KW).This gave an extra 200miles of range. Not sure how that works out when compared to petrol or derv.

Surely not if you are driving.  ;D

So when are you investing in solar panels, or even a wind turbine on the Opti estate.
Title: Re: Who owns a milk float on here?
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 04 June 2025, 14:34:24
Not that surprising - there will be losses in the cables and the inverter, all producing a nice load of heat, its not massive from a percentage perspective but when you are talking tens of kilowatts, it does add up

Yep. I did read that a shorter charge cable helps reduce losses a little, although I'm not sure how true that is.

Anyway, I charged it from 15% to 92% for exactly £18 using standard price electricity (24p per KW).This gave an extra 200miles of range. Not sure how that works out when compared to petrol or derv.

Surely not if you are driving.  ;D

So when are you investing in solar panels, or even a wind turbine on the Opti estate.

If I drove it like the BMW I'd expect to see less than 100 miles from a full charge. :)

Mrs Opti can clear 200-230 miles as she saves the polar bears and the planet. ::)

Title: Re: Who owns a milk float on here?
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 04 June 2025, 14:44:28
Actually, its high speed that kills the range (square law on aero losses) so hard acceleration and deacceleration (using regen and not the brakes) works pretty well for an EV.  :y

I did manage to get from Nottingham to Scarborough and back on a single charge once by using the A roads
Title: Re: Who owns a milk float on here?
Post by: STEMO on 04 June 2025, 15:14:35
Not that surprising - there will be losses in the cables and the inverter, all producing a nice load of heat, its not massive from a percentage perspective but when you are talking tens of kilowatts, it does add up

Yep. I did read that a shorter charge cable helps reduce losses a little, although I'm not sure how true that is.

Anyway, I charged it from 15% to 92% for exactly £18 using standard price electricity (24p per KW).This gave an extra 200miles of range. Not sure how that works out when compared to petrol or derv.
200 miles, around town, would cost me £24.50. On the motorway, around £20.
Your milk float will behave the other way round. You'll get more miles around town than on the motorway.
So saying £18 gave you 200 miles isn't really that accurate. As with all cars, it's how and where it's driven that will determine how many miles you get.
Title: Re: Who owns a milk float on here?
Post by: STEMO on 04 June 2025, 15:17:05
The above figures are using diesel from Asda at 134.7p, most fuel stations are more expensive than that.
Plus....I'm sure you could find cheaper electrickery than that.
Title: Re: Who owns a milk float on here?
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 04 June 2025, 15:57:06
Actually, its high speed that kills the range (square law on aero losses) so hard acceleration and deacceleration (using regen and not the brakes) works pretty well for an EV.  :y

I did manage to get from Nottingham to Scarborough and back on a single charge once by using the A roads


Yep...regen is good. It is set to 'high' as opposed to 'low' and means brakes are not needed very often. One pedal driving I think they call it.

I get around 45-50 KW/100 miles but Mrs Opti manages around 33KW/100miles......which I think is slightly over 3 miles /KW after doing the maths.
Title: Re: Who owns a milk float on here?
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 04 June 2025, 16:01:19
Not that surprising - there will be losses in the cables and the inverter, all producing a nice load of heat, its not massive from a percentage perspective but when you are talking tens of kilowatts, it does add up

Yep. I did read that a shorter charge cable helps reduce losses a little, although I'm not sure how true that is.

Anyway, I charged it from 15% to 92% for exactly £18 using standard price electricity (24p per KW).This gave an extra 200miles of range. Not sure how that works out when compared to petrol or derv.
200 miles, around town, would cost me £24.50. On the motorway, around £20.
Your milk float will behave the other way round. You'll get more miles around town than on the motorway.
So saying £18 gave you 200 miles isn't really that accurate. As with all cars, it's how and where it's driven that will determine how many miles you get.

Yep...MF don't like motorways as it really f*ucks the range at anything over 70MPH.

Octopussy have a tariff that can supply 'leccy' at 7p/KW during the night, but I think day units may cost  slightly more. Perhaps I should look into this.
Title: Re: Who owns a milk float on here?
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 04 June 2025, 16:04:29
Actually, its high speed that kills the range (square law on aero losses) so hard acceleration and deacceleration (using regen and not the brakes) works pretty well for an EV.  :y

I did manage to get from Nottingham to Scarborough and back on a single charge once by using the A roads

It's really good to drive and handles so well. A proper Jag in that respect......and it's also beautifully screwed together.
Title: Re: Who owns a milk float on here?
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 04 June 2025, 16:15:35
Actually, its high speed that kills the range (square law on aero losses) so hard acceleration and deacceleration (using regen and not the brakes) works pretty well for an EV.  :y

I did manage to get from Nottingham to Scarborough and back on a single charge once by using the A roads


https://youtu.be/q0M04d2n6Qg?feature=shared (https://youtu.be/q0M04d2n6Qg?feature=shared)

About 75 miles at max speed 124mph/200KPH. >:D
Title: Re: Who owns a milk float on here?
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 04 June 2025, 16:44:31
Try and use the brakes periodically so that they actually work when you need them ;)
Title: Re: Who owns a milk float on here?
Post by: Sir Tigger KC on 04 June 2025, 17:16:04
Can you get from the estate in Lincolnsausageshire to your castle in Woolly Welshland on one charge M'Lud?  ???

If not have you worked out where to stop for a cuppa while you charge up for the next leg?  ::)

Title: Re: Who owns a milk float on here?
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 05 June 2025, 13:20:55
Can you get from the estate in Lincolnsausageshire to your castle in Woolly Welshland on one charge M'Lud?  ???

If not have you worked out where to stop for a cuppa while you charge up for the next leg?  ::)

About 175 miles. So hopefully yes, although about half that is motorway.
Title: Re: Who owns a milk float on here?
Post by: Sir Tigger KC on 05 June 2025, 13:59:53
Can you get from the estate in Lincolnsausageshire to your castle in Woolly Welshland on one charge M'Lud?  ???

If not have you worked out where to stop for a cuppa while you charge up for the next leg?  ::)

About 175 miles. So hopefully yes, although about half that is motorway.

You could sit behind a lorry in the slipstream?  That might help you along abit?  :y                                     ;D
Title: Re: Who owns a milk float on here?
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 05 June 2025, 14:33:28
Actually, its high speed that kills the range (square law on aero losses) so hard acceleration and deacceleration (using regen and not the brakes) works pretty well for an EV.  :y

I did manage to get from Nottingham to Scarborough and back on a single charge once by using the A roads


Yep...regen is good. It is set to 'high' as opposed to 'low' and means brakes are not needed very often. One pedal driving I think they call it.

I get around 45-50 KW/100 miles but Mrs Opti manages around 33KW/100miles......which I think is slightly over 3 miles /KW after doing the maths.

One piece of advice, when its fully charged, brake hard every so often to keep the discs cleaned up otherwise they never get used (at 100% charge the regen is less)
Title: Re: Who owns a milk float on here?
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 05 June 2025, 15:06:14
Actually, its high speed that kills the range (square law on aero losses) so hard acceleration and deacceleration (using regen and not the brakes) works pretty well for an EV.  :y

I did manage to get from Nottingham to Scarborough and back on a single charge once by using the A roads


Yep...regen is good. It is set to 'high' as opposed to 'low' and means brakes are not needed very often. One pedal driving I think they call it.

I get around 45-50 KW/100 miles but Mrs Opti manages around 33KW/100miles......which I think is slightly over 3 miles /KW after doing the maths.

One piece of advice, when its fully charged, brake hard every so often to keep the discs cleaned up otherwise they never get used (at 100% charge the regen is less)

I've noticed the discs go rusty very easily. :y
Title: Re: Who owns a milk float on here?
Post by: countrywoman on 05 June 2025, 21:02:05
Even on IC cars folks that drive gentle have problem with rear brakes rusting up and auto cars that never use parking brake, yes rusted discs was one thing I noticed on electric cars while doing MOTs.
Title: Re: Who owns a milk float on here?
Post by: Viral_Jim on 06 June 2025, 08:46:24
The above figures are using diesel from Asda at 134.7p, most fuel stations are more expensive than that.
Plus....I'm sure you could find cheaper electrickery than that.

We have ours with Octopus. its 7.5p for the car using their dynamic charging and 27.85p for everything else (per kwh obviously). Its a bit faffy and if I were to change providers, or did fewer miles I would probably look to get on an economy 7 type tariff.

The iX is getting a lifetime average of 2.8miles/kwh so our 25,000 miles per year is costing at most £55.80p per month not counting any free electrons from my work. Doing the same in a 45mpg diesel (which you wouldn't get from a similar sized car) would cost around £285pcm.
Title: Re: Who owns a milk float on here?
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 06 June 2025, 11:14:24
The above figures are using diesel from Asda at 134.7p, most fuel stations are more expensive than that.
Plus....I'm sure you could find cheaper electrickery than that.

We have ours with Octopus. its 7.5p for the car using their dynamic charging and 27.85p for everything else (per kwh obviously). Its a bit faffy and if I were to change providers, or did fewer miles I would probably look to get on an economy 7 type tariff.

The iX is getting a lifetime average of 2.8miles/kwh so our 25,000 miles per year is costing at most £55.80p per month not counting any free electrons from my work. Doing the same in a 45mpg diesel (which you wouldn't get from a similar sized car) would cost around £285pcm.

Dynamic charging.....I think that means only charging when there is spare 'leccy available'. If you could charge for 7.5p at any time it would be better. But just being able to charge for a couple of hours here and there in the dead of night doesn't really make much of a dent.

Then there is the higher than usual charge for all other electricity. :-X 
Title: Re: Who owns a milk float on here?
Post by: Sir Tigger KC on 06 June 2025, 11:25:23
How long does it take to charge up the battery if it's almost flat?  ???
Title: Re: Who owns a milk float on here?
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 06 June 2025, 11:42:44
How long does it take to charge up the battery if it's almost flat?  ???

About 12 hours from 0-100% using a home 7KW charger but that scenario rarely happens.

More commonly 20-80% as the last 20% takes longer and charging losses are higher, I think.
Title: Re: Who owns a milk float on here?
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 06 June 2025, 13:16:48
At 7kW the charge rate is the same from 0 to 100%, the losses are pretty constant across the full range.

Its when you hit it with 100kW that the charge rate drops off as it approach's the higher percent rates
Title: Re: Who owns a milk float on here?
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 06 June 2025, 16:21:52
At 7kW the charge rate is the same from 0 to 100%, the losses are pretty constant across the full range.

Its when you hit it with 100kW that the charge rate drops off as it approach's the higher percent rates

Yep.....I know some modern EV are able to charge at about 300KW (Lotus are saying 400KW) in the early stages, but as you rightly say this drops once past around 60-70%
Title: Re: Who owns a milk float on here?
Post by: Viral_Jim on 06 June 2025, 23:15:08
]

Dynamic charging.....I think that means only charging when there is spare 'leccy available'. If you could charge for 7.5p at any time it would be better. But just being able to charge for a couple of hours here and there in the dead of night doesn't really make much of a dent.

Then there is the higher than usual charge for all other electricity. :-X

Sort of, octopus guarantee you at least 6hrs.of 7.5p every night between 9pm and 6am, but you don't get to choose exactly when. I always set it so that it takes the max it can every night and never seen less than about 7.5hrs available. Our charger kicked in and out through the night and it's always given us at least what's contractually promised.

It's quite telling that in 25,000 miles I've rapid charged the car twice (and the first time was only to check that it could). And swmbo has only charged a hand full of times at work - a 185mile round trip.

The technology works well, if you can trust it  :y

That said, if your mileage is less, then the. 7.5p does less to offset the extra 5p/kWh the rest of the time.
Title: Re: Who owns a milk float on here?
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 07 June 2025, 15:29:01
]

Dynamic charging.....I think that means only charging when there is spare 'leccy available'. If you could charge for 7.5p at any time it would be better. But just being able to charge for a couple of hours here and there in the dead of night doesn't really make much of a dent.

Then there is the higher than usual charge for all other electricity. :-X

Sort of, octopus guarantee you at least 6hrs.of 7.5p every night between 9pm and 6am, but you don't get to choose exactly when. I always set it so that it takes the max it can every night and never seen less than about 7.5hrs available. Our charger kicked in and out through the night and it's always given us at least what's contractually promised.

It's quite telling that in 25,000 miles I've rapid charged the car twice (and the first time was only to check that it could). And swmbo has only charged a hand full of times at work - a 185mile round trip.

The technology works well, if you can trust it  :y

That said, if your mileage is less, then the. 7.5p does less to offset the extra 5p/kWh the rest of the time.

I doubt she'll cover more than 5000 miles in a year, and I may add another 500 or 1000. So about 6000 miles tops.

However, I can see the maths would work better when 25000 miles are covered. :y
Title: Re: Who owns a milk float on here?
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 09 June 2025, 07:32:28
At 7kW the charge rate is the same from 0 to 100%, the losses are pretty constant across the full range.

Its when you hit it with 100kW that the charge rate drops off as it approach's the higher percent rates

Yep.....I know some modern EV are able to charge at about 300KW (Lotus are saying 400KW) in the early stages, but as you rightly say this drops once past around 60-70%

They are usually an 800V architecture (effectively two 400V packs in series), when charging they configure the pack to 400V with both packs in parallel, this then allows you to double the charge current. If you are then clever with the cooling and comfortable with lowering pack life, then you can get an even greater charge rate.
Title: Re: Who owns a milk float on here?
Post by: YZ250 on 10 June 2025, 16:46:54
"BYD says ‘the world is not ready’ and stops EV production"

I believe that they are concentrating on hybrids from now on. Many other manufacturers are slowing down the tracks due to poor uptake but the powers that be would have you believe that the transition is going really well.  ::)
Title: Re: Who owns a milk float on here?
Post by: Rangie on 10 June 2025, 17:08:09
We went out yesterday in Swmbos Yaris Cross at one point it was indicating 132 mpg, though on average between the batteries & engine we are getting between 60-80 mpg it's a brilliant little runaround, I'm pretty sure that we'd never go fully electric, the amount of miles we do now this should see us out.
Title: Re: Who owns a milk float on here?
Post by: Sir Tigger KC on 10 June 2025, 20:20:10
We went out yesterday in Swmbos Yaris Cross at one point it was indicating 132 mpg, though on average between the batteries & engine we are getting between 60-80 mpg it's a brilliant little runaround, I'm pretty sure that we'd never go fully electric, the amount of miles we do now this should see us out.

Handy that! It offsets your carbon footprint of your Range Rover.  :y

And it saves you from having to go round planting trees everywhere to stave off your guilt!  ;D
Title: Re: Who owns a milk float on here?
Post by: Rangie on 11 June 2025, 10:39:12
We went out yesterday in Swmbos Yaris Cross at one point it was indicating 132 mpg, though on average between the batteries & engine we are getting between 60-80 mpg it's a brilliant little runaround, I'm pretty sure that we'd never go fully electric, the amount of miles we do now this should see us out.

Handy that! It offsets your carbon footprint of your Range Rover.  :y

And it saves you from having to go round planting trees everywhere to stave off your guilt!  ;D
.

Seemed the right thing to do , it was keeping me awake at night worrying about climate change..😂😂😂
Title: Re: Who owns a milk float on here?
Post by: YZ250 on 11 June 2025, 10:47:18
………
Seemed the right thing to do , it was keeping me awake at night worrying about climate change..😂😂😂

A guy up the road from me must have had the same concerns as you, as he owns a Tesla ……… and a Mercedes AMG C63 Estate.  :y  ;D
Title: Re: Who owns a milk float on here?
Post by: Rangie on 11 June 2025, 10:58:22
………
Seemed the right thing to do , it was keeping me awake at night worrying about climate change..😂😂😂

A guy up the road from me must have had the same concerns as you, as he owns a Tesla ……… and a Mercedes AMG C63 Estate.  :y  ;D
.

Obviously a very caring fellow just like me..👍
Title: Re: Who owns a milk float on here?
Post by: TheBoy on 12 June 2025, 08:32:07
as he owns a Tesla ……… and a Mercedes AMG C63 Estate.  :y  ;D
That sounds like a daily choice of what disease you want today ;D
Title: Re: Who owns a milk float on here?
Post by: tunnie on 12 June 2025, 13:45:22
I am currently re-considering joining the EV float gang, primarily due to tax reasons.

But do I choose something for the wife or me, what is changing is that the eldest of the little T's is starting secondary school. I need to drive her 5 miles to her bus stop every day and that's the same direction as work. So I might as well carry on to the office, as she has to get the 7:30 bus.

Combined with a personal tax efficiency saving, the EV's are becoming an increasingly attractive option.

Top of my list so far is:

BMW i5 Touring eDrive 40 (me)
VW ID Buzz (wife)

I did even sit in the new EV Renault 5, complete with it's baguette holder  :D

Not my usual choice, but, at a take home cost to me of £250/m on an all-inclusive deal with 15k miles and zero down. It was hard not to take a look. I'd spend that in fuel alone powering the current BMW.  :-\
Title: Re: Who owns a milk float on here?
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 12 June 2025, 14:06:40
I am currently re-considering joining the EV float gang, primarily due to tax reasons.

But do I choose something for the wife or me, what is changing is that the eldest of the little T's is starting secondary school. I need to drive her 5 miles to her bus stop every day and that's the same direction as work. So I might as well carry on to the office, as she has to get the 7:30 bus.

Combined with a personal tax efficiency saving, the EV's are becoming an increasingly attractive option.

Top of my list so far is:

BMW i5 Touring eDrive 40 (me)
VW ID Buzz (wife)

I did even sit in the new EV Renault 5, complete with it's baguette holder  :D

Not my usual choice, but, at a take home cost to me of £250/m on an all-inclusive deal with 15k miles and zero down. It was hard not to take a look. I'd spend that in fuel alone powering the current BMW.  :-\

French Albitz will be tempted by this blatant Froggy car porn. >:D
Title: Re: Who owns a milk float on here?
Post by: tunnie on 12 June 2025, 14:12:51
(https://www.survivefrance.com/uploads/db5408/optimized/3X/6/7/670d87dd11df988226075a9190c5466ed4090cbe_2_1024x1024.jpeg)
Title: Re: Who owns a milk float on here?
Post by: Viral_Jim on 12 June 2025, 15:49:33
I like these very much!
Title: Re: Who owns a milk float on here?
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 12 June 2025, 15:58:54
The plastics look 'very low rent' much  like the plastics you find in a family tin of biscuits. :)
Title: Re: Who owns a milk float on here?
Post by: tunnie on 12 June 2025, 16:06:01
For the price, I was tempted. The issue is with the drivers seat in my position, no one, not even a child can sit behind me.
Title: Re: Who owns a milk float on here?
Post by: Sir Tigger KC on 12 June 2025, 16:32:14
The baguette holder is inspired!  :y

Looks as though you could fit a bottle of wine in there instead.  :)
Title: Re: Who owns a milk float on here?
Post by: ronnyd on 12 June 2025, 17:49:44
(https://www.survivefrance.com/uploads/db5408/optimized/3X/6/7/670d87dd11df988226075a9190c5466ed4090cbe_2_1024x1024.jpeg)
Those seats!  ::)
Title: Re: Who owns a milk float on here?
Post by: STEMO on 12 June 2025, 19:53:39
Renault love yellow, all of filling caps under the bonnet are yellow.
Title: Re: Who owns a milk float on here?
Post by: Viral_Jim on 12 June 2025, 20:02:42
Eh, I quite like them, they do a blue denim seat that's better but I think these are pretty cool too. Arguably we're probably not the target market Renault were looking at anyway  ;D
Title: Re: Who owns a milk float on here?
Post by: TheBoy on 12 June 2025, 20:05:14
A few months ago, our company EV scheme when from "worth considering" to taking the piss.

Not that it really matters, as an EV in these parts is going to be some way off.  Its quite telling that a lot of the houses that have had a charging point fitted no longer have TVs....
Title: Re: Who owns a milk float on here?
Post by: STEMO on 12 June 2025, 20:34:54
A few months ago, our company EV scheme when from "worth considering" to taking the piss.

Not that it really matters, as an EV in these parts is going to be some way off.  Its quite telling that a lot of the houses that have had a charging point fitted no longer have TVs....
Are they not watching telly because they're out in their EV's ?
Title: Re: Who owns a milk float on here?
Post by: Kevin Wood on 13 June 2025, 07:41:52
The baguette holder is inspired!  :y

Looks as though you could fit a bottle of wine in there instead.  :)

The Baguette looks a little stale to me but at least you'll have something to eat while waiting for the recovery truck!
Title: Re: Who owns a milk float on here?
Post by: tunnie on 13 June 2025, 08:49:54
A few months ago, our company EV scheme when from "worth considering" to taking the piss.

Not that it really matters, as an EV in these parts is going to be some way off.  Its quite telling that a lot of the houses that have had a charging point fitted no longer have TVs....

What changed? I've found prices can vary considerably. Our provider is LEX who appear one of the more pricey options.

VW ID Buzz in September was £400 cheaper gross deduct than it is today....

Depends on their stock, what they want to get shot of at the time. So I'm watching prices rise and fall
Title: Re: Who owns a milk float on here?
Post by: TheBoy on 13 June 2025, 08:56:54
A few months ago, our company EV scheme when from "worth considering" to taking the piss.

Not that it really matters, as an EV in these parts is going to be some way off.  Its quite telling that a lot of the houses that have had a charging point fitted no longer have TVs....

What changed? I've found prices can vary considerably. Our provider is LEX who appear one of the more pricey options.

VW ID Buzz in September was £400 cheaper gross deduct than it is today....

Depends on their stock, what they want to get shot of at the time. So I'm watching prices rise and fall
Last year, some crappy Merc was around £200, and an iPace or Tesla was around £400.  Last time I looked, you couldn't even get that 40 mile range Citroen thing for £200

Lemme have another look/
Title: Re: Who owns a milk float on here?
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 13 June 2025, 09:02:51
A few months ago, our company EV scheme when from "worth considering" to taking the piss.

Not that it really matters, as an EV in these parts is going to be some way off.  Its quite telling that a lot of the houses that have had a charging point fitted no longer have TVs....

What changed? I've found prices can vary considerably. Our provider is LEX who appear one of the more pricey options.

VW ID Buzz in September was £400 cheaper gross deduct than it is today....

Depends on their stock, what they want to get shot of at the time. So I'm watching prices rise and fall

Second hand values is what is driving the price more than anything
Title: Re: Who owns a milk float on here?
Post by: TheBoy on 13 June 2025, 09:06:43
So cheapest on our scheme is from £231, Citroen Ami.  No iPaces obviously. Tesla Model 3 is from £500. model Y from £620

All those limited to 10k pa, and for 36 months.  The site is not updating right, so cant see how knocking up to 15k pa affects it.

Provider is Arval.
Title: Re: Who owns a milk float on here?
Post by: tunnie on 13 June 2025, 09:20:07
We can put in any miles we want PA, but all leases are 3 years. It gives an updated price on the fly as you change the mileage.

Model Y, RWD is around £400 for me, but I'm saving additional amounts due to tax savings, but their calculator is not accurate.

BMW i5 Touring, various packs + active suspension is coming in at around £475/m of 15k pa.

Now LEX is actually looking cheap!
Title: Re: Who owns a milk float on here?
Post by: TheBoy on 13 June 2025, 09:40:26
but I'm saving additional amounts due to tax savings
I currently use other tax avoidance techniques to save Rachel from accounts from blowing it on the lame and lazy, so my figures were based on 20% savings.  Let me check on 40%
Title: Re: Who owns a milk float on here?
Post by: TheBoy on 13 June 2025, 09:43:53
So at 40%, that shitroen is £190, Model 3 £426, Model Y £526, and to compare to yours, i5 touring is £554 for 250kW eDrive40 Sport with 84kWh batt with no selected options.
Title: Re: Who owns a milk float on here?
Post by: TheBoy on 13 June 2025, 09:47:20
Oh, the mileage calc has started to work.  That same beemer option with 15k pa, 36 months is £602.

So, seems your scheme is currently more reasonable.  But given how 2nd hand EV prices have dived, as Mr DTM says, that's likely to make EV leasing expensive.  It could also be that LEX have managed to pick up some unwanted EVs from the manufacturer at a good price.
Title: Re: Who owns a milk float on here?
Post by: tunnie on 13 June 2025, 11:29:14
I think the schemes are very close, I save an additional 20% due to the 60% trap. So for my calculation:

Take the gross per month and x 12.
Then work out 40% of that
Then divide that by 12, gives the true cost to me.
Title: Re: Who owns a milk float on here?
Post by: TheBoy on 13 June 2025, 12:18:19
You may have opportunities to avoid that, either via this scheme, or other avoidance schemes, or more likely, a combination.
Title: Re: Who owns a milk float on here?
Post by: TheBoy on 13 June 2025, 12:20:23
Not something I have to worry about this year, as I'm that "minority of managers" in the company that ain't seeing any rise, just like everyone else I know in the company.

Lying bastards.
Title: Re: Who owns a milk float on here?
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 13 June 2025, 12:21:27
Perhaps I'm old school but other than my house, and a Yamaha RD250 I owned when dinosaurs still roamed the earth, nothing has been mortgaged, rented, leased, HP'd or PCP'ed.

I'm not sure I like the idea of 'renting' a car for 3 or 4 years then handing it back and starting all over again.

Perhaps I'm wrong.

Title: Re: Who owns a milk float on here?
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 13 June 2025, 12:26:02
but I'm saving additional amounts due to tax savings
I currently use other tax avoidance techniques to save Rachel from accounts from blowing it on the lame and lazy, so my figures were based on 20% savings.  Let me check on 40%


You're never going to become a Labour MP with talk like this. :D >:D >:D
Title: Re: Who owns a milk float on here?
Post by: TheBoy on 13 June 2025, 15:44:27
Perhaps I'm old school but other than my house, and a Yamaha RD250 I owned when dinosaurs still roamed the earth, nothing has been mortgaged, rented, leased, HP'd or PCP'ed.

I'm not sure I like the idea of 'renting' a car for 3 or 4 years then handing it back and starting all over again.

Perhaps I'm wrong.
Some of these schemes are ok, assuming no initial upfront cost.

For eg, Bro had some Merc S Classes over the years, and was paying around £700 a month for them over 2 years.  The value after 2 years was around £50k, so thats £35k of depreciation had he bought it, or around £16k in lease payments if he leased instead....

Title: Re: Who owns a milk float on here?
Post by: Sir Tigger KC on 13 June 2025, 16:00:37
These figures you guys are bandying around are making my head hurt!  ;D
Title: Re: Who owns a milk float on here?
Post by: tunnie on 13 June 2025, 16:06:25
Perhaps I'm old school but other than my house, and a Yamaha RD250 I owned when dinosaurs still roamed the earth, nothing has been mortgaged, rented, leased, HP'd or PCP'ed.

I'm not sure I like the idea of 'renting' a car for 3 or 4 years then handing it back and starting all over again.

Perhaps I'm wrong.

The tax system encourages it  :y

Above a certain threshold, 100% of my hard earned....... well earned at least dosh, goes into my pension. It will of course be taxed on the way out, later when I retire, but currently 100% goes in.

My alternative is 40% goes in my pocket and 60% on paying others so they don't have to work.  ::)

As pointed about above it's a combination of things, to ensure I get the most out of it.

It's quite possible I will soon hit another limit, a cap on pension contributions. So, do I go EV, do I take the money.

At the moment, the EV does look the more tempting option, I sacrifice some more dosh to keep more of it, but as you say I am renting it.

It's actually a very strange system, as the more you earn, the cheaper the cars become.
Title: Re: Who owns a milk float on here?
Post by: STEMO on 13 June 2025, 16:32:24
Perhaps I'm old school but other than my house, and a Yamaha RD250 I owned when dinosaurs still roamed the earth, nothing has been mortgaged, rented, leased, HP'd or PCP'ed.

I'm not sure I like the idea of 'renting' a car for 3 or 4 years then handing it back and starting all over again.

Perhaps I'm wrong.

The tax system encourages it  :y

Above a certain threshold, 100% of my hard earned....... well earned at least dosh, goes into my pension. It will of course be taxed on the way out, later when I retire, but currently 100% goes in.

My alternative is 40% goes in my pocket and 60% on paying others so they don't have to work.  ::)

As pointed about above it's a combination of things, to ensure I get the most out of it.

It's quite possible I will soon hit another limit, a cap on pension contributions. So, do I go EV, do I take the money.

At the moment, the EV does look the more tempting option, I sacrifice some more dosh to keep more of it, but as you say I am renting it.

It's actually a very strange system, as the more you earn, the cheaper the cars become.
That threshold, I take it, is £99,999.
Title: Re: Who owns a milk float on here?
Post by: tunnie on 13 June 2025, 16:33:46
Yes, or as close as I can get it playing with % of pension contributions.

The fiscal drag and not raising it based on inflation has affected us quite a bit.
Title: Re: Who owns a milk float on here?
Post by: STEMO on 13 June 2025, 16:34:07
My missus will tip over the ridiculous 60% tax threshold this year. But the 12% that goes into her pension will ,keep the taxman at bay for a while.
Title: Re: Who owns a milk float on here?
Post by: tunnie on 13 June 2025, 16:38:19
My missus will tip over the ridiculous 60% tax threshold this year. But the 12% that goes into her pension will ,keep the taxman at bay for a while.

One thing to bear in mind, which I did not realise until recently, is that employer pension contributions are included in the cap limit.

It's punishing the single earner, it's a pi$$ take. The silver cloud is that it's forced me to put more into my pension, which is always a good thing.
Title: Re: Who owns a milk float on here?
Post by: STEMO on 13 June 2025, 16:47:31
My missus will tip over the ridiculous 60% tax threshold this year. But the 12% that goes into her pension will ,keep the taxman at bay for a while.

One thing to bear in mind, which I did not realise until recently, is that employer pension contributions are included in the cap limit.

It's punishing the single earner, it's a pi$$ take. The silver cloud is that it's forced me to put more into my pension, which is always a good thing.
What's the cap now. £60,000?
Title: Re: Who owns a milk float on here?
Post by: STEMO on 13 June 2025, 16:50:14
Yes it is, just checked. She won't touch that with her 12% and employers 24%.
Title: Re: Who owns a milk float on here?
Post by: tunnie on 13 June 2025, 16:51:52
Yes it is, just checked. She won't touch that with her 12% and employers 24%.

Yeah, half expecting Rachel from Accounts to lower it in the next budget as well.  >:(

Employers 24%  :o :o
Title: Re: Who owns a milk float on here?
Post by: STEMO on 13 June 2025, 16:52:03
But you'd better watch out this government doesn't reintroduce the LTA.
Title: Re: Who owns a milk float on here?
Post by: STEMO on 13 June 2025, 16:52:21
Yes it is, just checked. She won't touch that with her 12% and employers 24%.

Yeah, half expecting Rachel from Accounts to lower it in the next budget as well.  >:(

Employers 24%  :o :o
Public sector
Title: Re: Who owns a milk float on here?
Post by: tunnie on 13 June 2025, 16:53:12
But you'd better watch out this government doesn't reintroduce the LTA.

I thought they already had, 1 million?  :-\

Just seen it was abolished. But for how long and when do they U turn that! 
Title: Re: Who owns a milk float on here?
Post by: STEMO on 13 June 2025, 16:54:19
But you'd better watch out this government doesn't reintroduce the LTA.

I thought they already had, 1 million?  :-\
Not yet. At your age, you could easily exceed that.
Title: Re: Who owns a milk float on here?
Post by: tunnie on 13 June 2025, 16:56:22
But you'd better watch out this government doesn't reintroduce the LTA.

I thought they already had, 1 million?  :-\
Not yet. At your age, you could easily exceed that.

Very easily, current calculator I use via the work provider, puts mine at 1.5 to 1.7.
Title: Re: Who owns a milk float on here?
Post by: STEMO on 13 June 2025, 17:00:56
But you'd better watch out this government doesn't reintroduce the LTA.

I thought they already had, 1 million?  :-\
Not yet. At your age, you could easily exceed that.

Very easily, current calculator I use via the work provider, puts mine at 1.5 to 1.7.
You'll need to employ a very clever accountant, or retire at 55 like hospital consultants do. This is why the Tory government abolished the limit, not enough consultants. If Labour reintroduce it, they'll have to have a special get out for consultants, which will miff other public sector workers and......STRIKE!!  ;D
Title: Re: Who owns a milk float on here?
Post by: tunnie on 13 June 2025, 17:03:52
But you'd better watch out this government doesn't reintroduce the LTA.

I thought they already had, 1 million?  :-\
Not yet. At your age, you could easily exceed that.

Very easily, current calculator I use via the work provider, puts mine at 1.5 to 1.7.
You'll need to employ a very clever accountant, or retire at 55 like hospital consultants do. This is why the Tory government abolished the limit, not enough consultants. If Labour reintroduce it, they'll have to have a special get out for consultants, which will miff other public sector workers and......STRIKE!!  ;D

 ;D ;D ;D

I have the retirement calculator set for 60, as that's my current aim. Suspect by the time I get there though it will not be an option, have to be 55 currently to access the work pension, it's raising to 57 in 2028.
Title: Re: Who owns a milk float on here?
Post by: STEMO on 13 June 2025, 17:11:20
Well...it's like this young Tunnie: whilst it's prudent to plan for your retirement, I wouldn't deny yourself too much right now. Because the way things are going in the wider world........... :-\
Title: Re: Who owns a milk float on here?
Post by: tunnie on 13 June 2025, 17:24:30
Hence looking at i5 Touring, sat in one last week. I did very much like it. Would order with a tow bar, so I can haul a trailer, bike carrier on the back. (kids are loving cycling at the moment)

I would also shift the spend into money "I do not see" and free up some funds that do hit by bank account.

Plus changes in taking kids in etc, increased miles.
Title: Re: Who owns a milk float on here?
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 13 June 2025, 18:59:48
Hence looking at i5 Touring, sat in one last week. I did very much like it. Would order with a tow bar, so I can haul a trailer, bike carrier on the back. (kids are loving cycling at the moment)

I would also shift the spend into money "I do not see" and free up some funds that do hit by bank account.

Plus changes in taking kids in etc, increased miles.


What would be the down payment and subsequent monthly payments on that?

It's a nice enough car but a bit 'generic' perhaps.
Title: Re: Who owns a milk float on here?
Post by: tunnie on 13 June 2025, 19:56:00
Hence looking at i5 Touring, sat in one last week. I did very much like it. Would order with a tow bar, so I can haul a trailer, bike carrier on the back. (kids are loving cycling at the moment)

I would also shift the spend into money "I do not see" and free up some funds that do hit by bank account.

Plus changes in taking kids in etc, increased miles.


What would be the down payment and subsequent monthly payments on that?

It's a nice enough car but a bit 'generic' perhaps.

Salary Sacrifice = No down payment.

Cost can vary dramatically, based on personal tax status. (20%/40%/60% tax payer)

I worked out the real world loss to me is £475/m.

That was 15k pa, i5 Touring, various packs, active suspension, tow bar, everything I would want.

That £475 includes the car, insurance, maintenance, tyres etc. Other cars with same deal:

£400 I could have a Tesla Model Y RWD

£275 for a Renult 5.
Title: Re: Who owns a milk float on here?
Post by: TheBoy on 13 June 2025, 20:47:36
These figures you guys are bandying around are making my head hurt!  ;D
Me too, that's why we drive crap old cars ;D
Title: Re: Who owns a milk float on here?
Post by: Kevin Wood on 13 June 2025, 22:19:49
These figures you guys are bandying around are making my head hurt!  ;D
Me too, that's why we drive crap old cars ;D

With new cars getting more crap with every model year, who are the fools here? ;)
Title: Re: Who owns a milk float on here?
Post by: Sir Tigger KC on 14 June 2025, 11:00:03
These figures you guys are bandying around are making my head hurt!  ;D
Me too, that's why we drive crap old cars ;D

With new cars getting more crap with every model year, who are the fools here? ;)

Tunnie's annual budget for his new rental, is about the same as my budget for my next new to me car, which I expect will last me at least 5 years.  ;D
Title: Re: Who owns a milk float on here?
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 14 June 2025, 11:11:39
I suppose a lot depends if you are mortgage free or not.

If you are there is money available for other things.......although I believe Tunnie is too young to have paid off his mortgage.
Title: Re: Who owns a milk float on here?
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 14 June 2025, 11:15:20
These figures you guys are bandying around are making my head hurt!  ;D
Me too, that's why we drive crap old cars ;D

With new cars getting more crap with every model year, who are the fools here? ;)

Tunnie's annual budget for his new rental, is about the same as my budget for my next new to me car, which I expect will last me at least 5 years.  ;D

£475 x 12= £5700

Over 3 years £17100.

I've no idea if that is good or bad. :)
Title: Re: Who owns a milk float on here?
Post by: Sir Tigger KC on 14 June 2025, 12:10:17
These figures you guys are bandying around are making my head hurt!  ;D
Me too, that's why we drive crap old cars ;D

With new cars getting more crap with every model year, who are the fools here? ;)

Tunnie's annual budget for his new rental, is about the same as my budget for my next new to me car, which I expect will last me at least 5 years.  ;D

£475 x 12= £5700

Over 3 years £17100.

I've no idea if that is good or bad. :)

I'm not having a pop at Tunnie. Far from it. If these lease deals work for him and his family then good for him.  :y

It's not for me though.  :)
Title: Re: Who owns a milk float on here?
Post by: STEMO on 14 June 2025, 12:41:21
These figures you guys are bandying around are making my head hurt!  ;D
Me too, that's why we drive crap old cars ;D

With new cars getting more crap with every model year, who are the fools here? ;)

Tunnie's annual budget for his new rental, is about the same as my budget for my next new to me car, which I expect will last me at least 5 years.  ;D

£475 x 12= £5700

Over 3 years £17100.

I've no idea if that is good or bad. :)

I'm not having a pop at Tunnie. Far from it. If these lease deals work for him and his family then good for him.  :y

It's not for me though.  :)
Me neither. As you know, I paid just under nine grand for the grandland. Had if four weeks today and I haven't washed or vacuumed it yet. It's no more than a tool to carry my dog around in.
Title: Re: Who owns a milk float on here?
Post by: Doctor Gollum on 14 June 2025, 13:56:23
These figures you guys are bandying around are making my head hurt!  ;D
Me too, that's why we drive crap old cars ;D

With new cars getting more crap with every model year, who are the fools here? ;)

Tunnie's annual budget for his new rental, is about the same as my budget for my next new to me car, which I expect will last me at least 5 years.  ;D

£475 x 12= £5700

Over 3 years £17100.

I've no idea if that is good or bad. :)

I'm not having a pop at Tunnie. Far from it. If these lease deals work for him and his family then good for him.  :y

It's not for me though.  :)
Me neither. As you know, I paid just under nine grand for the grandland. Had if four weeks today and I haven't washed or vacuumed it yet. It's no more than a tool to carry my dog around in.
Which makes it a waste of about £7,500
Title: Re: Who owns a milk float on here?
Post by: STEMO on 14 June 2025, 15:59:00
These figures you guys are bandying around are making my head hurt!  ;D
Me too, that's why we drive crap old cars ;D

With new cars getting more crap with every model year, who are the fools here? ;)

Tunnie's annual budget for his new rental, is about the same as my budget for my next new to me car, which I expect will last me at least 5 years.  ;D

£475 x 12= £5700

Over 3 years £17100.

I've no idea if that is good or bad. :)

I'm not having a pop at Tunnie. Far from it. If these lease deals work for him and his family then good for him.  :y

It's not for me though.  :)
Me neither. As you know, I paid just under nine grand for the grandland. Had if four weeks today and I haven't washed or vacuumed it yet. It's no more than a tool to carry my dog around in.
Which makes it a waste of about £7,500
In your opinion. You must have spent more than that upgrading your ancient merc. Now that's a real waste.
Title: Re: Who owns a milk float on here?
Post by: Rangie on 14 June 2025, 16:39:53
We had leasing options explained to us when we bought the Yaris, but neither of us like being in debt for anything + we're both at the age where we could " wake up dead " one morning so certainly don't need finance payments to deal with, so bought it cash apparently only eight percent of car purchases are cash ones so we were told but you can't take it with you, exactly the same when we bought the caravan outright purchase no finance, thanks to her cousin who died at 58 years of age , so SWMBO inherited a fair old chunk of cash we've certainly no intention of leaving our kids bundles of cash they can have the house and as for paying interest on anything, they can poke that completely.👍
Title: Re: Who owns a milk float on here?
Post by: tunnie on 14 June 2025, 17:43:33
These figures you guys are bandying around are making my head hurt!  ;D
Me too, that's why we drive crap old cars ;D

With new cars getting more crap with every model year, who are the fools here? ;)

Tunnie's annual budget for his new rental, is about the same as my budget for my next new to me car, which I expect will last me at least 5 years.  ;D

£475 x 12= £5700

Over 3 years £17100.

I've no idea if that is good or bad. :)

I'm not having a pop at Tunnie. Far from it. If these lease deals work for him and his family then good for him.  :y

It's not for me though.  :)
Me neither. As you know, I paid just under nine grand for the grandland. Had if four weeks today and I haven't washed or vacuumed it yet. It's no more than a tool to carry my dog around in.

There are many, many factors though. I expect my mileage to increase significantly. With a salary sacrifice deal I would:

Never have any repair or service costs
Never have to pay for tyres
Never have to pay for insurance.
I get a brand new car every 3 years.

It will cost me sub £5 to charge at home and cover 300 miles.

I expect my petrol fuel bill to rise to nearly £200/£250 so already some big savings. But I need to wait until the new commuting style kicks in before I make a decision.

Then of course getting something nice and new has its appeal, along with never having to do any service work on it.
Title: Re: Who owns a milk float on here?
Post by: STEMO on 14 June 2025, 17:56:59
Of course, it sounds ideal for what you need. I need something that I'm not too precious over, to transport a muddy dog and a smelly old man  ;D
Title: Re: Who owns a milk float on here?
Post by: tunnie on 14 June 2025, 18:01:34
Of course, it sounds ideal for what you need. I need something that I'm not too precious over, to transport a muddy dog and a smelly old man  ;D

 ;D ;D
Title: Re: Who owns a milk float on here?
Post by: Viral_Jim on 14 June 2025, 19:01:45

There are many, many factors though. I expect my mileage to increase significantly. With a salary sacrifice deal I would:

Never have any repair or service costs
Never have to pay for tyres
Never have to pay for insurance.
I get a brand new car every 3 years.

It will cost me sub £5 to charge at home and cover 300 miles.

I expect my petrol fuel bill to rise to nearly £200/£250 so already some big savings. But I need to wait until the new commuting style kicks in before I make a decision.

Then of course getting something nice and new has its appeal, along with never having to do any service work on it.

Sounds like you and I are in a fairly similar boat. I took the iX for exactly this reason last year. Except in our case we both use it to commute and clock up around 25k per year.

I worked out I was basically maintaining my own cars for the fun of it, while paying about £25 pcm for the privilege. There is also a great sense of comfort knowing that I don't have any repair bills coming and anything that does go awry (3 punctures in 11 months in my case) I just ring a number and a nice polite man makes it all better for me  ;D

As for the i5, it's a lovely car, I had a razz round in one while the iX was having a little niggle sorted at the dealer. Better to drive than the iX for my money, but SWMBO wanted an SUV, and the i5 wasn't out when we ordered.

Let us know how you get on with it :y
Title: Re: Who owns a milk float on here?
Post by: YZ250 on 14 June 2025, 19:47:43
…………
There is also a great sense of comfort knowing that I don't have any repair bills coming and anything that does go awry ……………

Are they still subject to the ‘Fair Wear and Tear’ policy clause?  Even though I still owned my own cars, I did lease through our company scheme for a few years. Not quite the same as normal leasing but something similar to Mr DTM I would imagine. No deposit, no insurance, no road fund, no maintenance etc., I simply just had to put fuel in it. It was a good scheme to start with, the vehicles were reasonably priced and the cost was deducted from my wages before I even saw it, so nothing could be simpler.  :y  Then the prices started to climb so I purchased new vehicles using my employee discount, and then I could sell them 11 months later (tax implications if I sold them earlier than that) for what I’d paid for them.
The main worrying clause on our lease was that the vehicle had to be returned in almost mint condition. Any over mileage, any scratches, dents, kerb’d alloys etc were chargeable. I was lucky, I never got charged once, but then I do look after my cars quite religiously.  ;D 
In our case, if you scratched the car badly, it was cheaper to slam it into a wall and then pay the £50 excess to claim on the insurance.  ::)   ;D
As I say, mine was a vehicle manufacturer employee scheme so may have been much different.  :-\
Title: Re: Who owns a milk float on here?
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 15 June 2025, 11:12:44
…………
There is also a great sense of comfort knowing that I don't have any repair bills coming and anything that does go awry ……………

Are they still subject to the ‘Fair Wear and Tear’ policy clause?  Even though I still owned my own cars, I did lease through our company scheme for a few years. Not quite the same as normal leasing but something similar to Mr DTM I would imagine. No deposit, no insurance, no road fund, no maintenance etc., I simply just had to put fuel in it. It was a good scheme to start with, the vehicles were reasonably priced and the cost was deducted from my wages before I even saw it, so nothing could be simpler.  :y  Then the prices started to climb so I purchased new vehicles using my employee discount, and then I could sell them 11 months later (tax implications if I sold them earlier than that) for what I’d paid for them.
The main worrying clause on our lease was that the vehicle had to be returned in almost mint condition. Any over mileage, any scratches, dents, kerb’d alloys etc were chargeable. I was lucky, I never got charged once, but then I do look after my cars quite religiously.  ;D 
In our case, if you scratched the car badly, it was cheaper to slam it into a wall and then pay the £50 excess to claim on the insurance.  ::)   ;D
As I say, mine was a vehicle manufacturer employee scheme so may have been much different.  :-\

That description is very subjective.

I've been to see cars described as 'mint' that looked as though they had been thrown from a tall building. Needless to say I walked away.
Title: Re: Who owns a milk float on here?
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 15 June 2025, 11:19:32
We had leasing options explained to us when we bought the Yaris, but neither of us like being in debt for anything + we're both at the age where we could " wake up dead " one morning so certainly don't need finance payments to deal with, so bought it cash apparently only eight percent of car purchases are cash ones so we were told but you can't take it with you, exactly the same when we bought the caravan outright purchase no finance, thanks to her cousin who died at 58 years of age , so SWMBO inherited a fair old chunk of cash we've certainly no intention of leaving our kids bundles of cash they can have the house and as for paying interest on anything, they can poke that completely.👍

Sounds about right.

They don't make much on 'cash only' deals in 2025......so they usually try to tack on a load of worthless crap like alloy wheel protection, paint protection, and leather protection. The dealer makes good money on this tat.....££££££. :D






Title: Re: Who owns a milk float on here?
Post by: Sir Tigger KC on 15 June 2025, 13:45:57
We had leasing options explained to us when we bought the Yaris, but neither of us like being in debt for anything + we're both at the age where we could " wake up dead " one morning so certainly don't need finance payments to deal with, so bought it cash apparently only eight percent of car purchases are cash ones so we were told but you can't take it with you, exactly the same when we bought the caravan outright purchase no finance, thanks to her cousin who died at 58 years of age , so SWMBO inherited a fair old chunk of cash we've certainly no intention of leaving our kids bundles of cash they can have the house and as for paying interest on anything, they can poke that completely.👍

Sounds about right.

They don't make much on 'cash only' deals in 2025......so they usually try to tack on a load of worthless crap like alloy wheel protection, paint protection, and leather protection. The dealer makes good money on this tat.....££££££. :D

In a former life I sold static caravans on a big site in Devon for a living. I got better commission for selling the finance than I did the caravan.
Title: Re: Who owns a milk float on here?
Post by: Viral_Jim on 15 June 2025, 20:23:48

As I say, mine was a vehicle manufacturer employee scheme so may have been much different.  :-\

Ours is through a third part leasing agent (Octopus). I have a mileage limit on the lease but beyond that, all I do is add electrons. There's no tax, insurance, maintenance to pay. For us, wear & year and acceptable damage is covered under BVRLA guidelines. Given I'll have done 100k miles in it if I keep it the full 4 yrs, I may have to get a few bits paint corrected as I'm not as religious about looking after my car's as you  :y
Title: Re: Who owns a milk float on here?
Post by: YZ250 on 15 June 2025, 22:04:49

As I say, mine was a vehicle manufacturer employee scheme so may have been much different.  :-\

Ours is through a third part leasing agent (Octopus). I have a mileage limit on the lease but beyond that, all I do is add electrons. There's no tax, insurance, maintenance to pay. For us, wear & year and acceptable damage is covered under BVRLA guidelines. Given I'll have done 100k miles in it if I keep it the full 4 yrs, I may have to get a few bits paint corrected as I'm not as religious about looking after my car's as you  :y

It worked well for me for around 9 years and as I changed mine every 9 months it gave me the opportunity to try out different models.  :y  I always opted for the biggest engine as they fitted most of the toys on them as standard, saving me the hassle of ticking off options.
There were those that said I was throwing money away for something I’d never own but I’d bought 2 Omega’s when they were around a year old so I was well versed in losing lots of money.  ;D  As you say, there’s a lot to be said for not having to worry about maintenance, tyres, insurance and tax, so it does suit some of us.  :y
Title: Re: Who owns a milk float on here?
Post by: Viral_Jim on 15 June 2025, 23:12:21
It does work well for us, but sadly my next car will be something a bit more modest, clearly I didn't work as hard at school as Mr Tunnie, so I'm nowhere near maxing my pension contributions, also, whole I don't know I suspect I'm 1-0 up on divorces.

These two facts, combined with me now being the wrong side of 40 mean I really need to start chunking money into my pension so I can retire before my state pension age of 107.  :D
Title: Re: Who owns a milk float on here?
Post by: STEMO on 16 June 2025, 07:19:06
It does work well for us, but sadly my next car will be something a bit more modest, clearly I didn't work as hard at school as Mr Tunnie, so I'm nowhere near maxing my pension contributions, also, whole I don't know I suspect I'm 1-0 up on divorces.

These two facts, combined with me now being the wrong side of 40 mean I really need to start chunking money into my pension so I can retire before my state pension age of 107.  :D
It's going up to 109 in 2028  :)
Title: Re: Who owns a milk float on here?
Post by: tunnie on 16 June 2025, 11:08:59

There are many, many factors though. I expect my mileage to increase significantly. With a salary sacrifice deal I would:

Never have any repair or service costs
Never have to pay for tyres
Never have to pay for insurance.
I get a brand new car every 3 years.

It will cost me sub £5 to charge at home and cover 300 miles.

I expect my petrol fuel bill to rise to nearly £200/£250 so already some big savings. But I need to wait until the new commuting style kicks in before I make a decision.

Then of course getting something nice and new has its appeal, along with never having to do any service work on it.

Sounds like you and I are in a fairly similar boat. I took the iX for exactly this reason last year. Except in our case we both use it to commute and clock up around 25k per year.

I worked out I was basically maintaining my own cars for the fun of it, while paying about £25 pcm for the privilege. There is also a great sense of comfort knowing that I don't have any repair bills coming and anything that does go awry (3 punctures in 11 months in my case) I just ring a number and a nice polite man makes it all better for me  ;D

As for the i5, it's a lovely car, I had a razz round in one while the iX was having a little niggle sorted at the dealer. Better to drive than the iX for my money, but SWMBO wanted an SUV, and the i5 wasn't out when we ordered.

Let us know how you get on with it :y

25k a Year  :o

Yeah at those miles and EV cost at home that's a no-brainer.

Good to know about the i5, reviews do look good.

One thing holding me back currently is the 100% of the EV gross figure (which are stupidly large) goes straight into my pension. So at the moment, I'm keeping that flowing as that is the true cost to me. I need to find out about some structure changes at work, which is due to happen later this year.

Trouble is I really like my 435i - Near perfect blend for me of power and economy.

Another aspect is all these new cars have all these stupid active saftey systems, which are difficult to turn off.
Title: Re: Who owns a milk float on here?
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 16 June 2025, 12:19:06
It does work well for us, but sadly my next car will be something a bit more modest, clearly I didn't work as hard at school as Mr Tunnie, so I'm nowhere near maxing my pension contributions, also, whole I don't know I suspect I'm 1-0 up on divorces.

These two facts, combined with me now being the wrong side of 40 mean I really need to start chunking money into my pension so I can retire before my state pension age of 107.  :D


I don't have a pension.



Title: Re: Who owns a milk float on here?
Post by: Viral_Jim on 16 June 2025, 13:17:56

One thing holding me back currently is the 100% of the EV gross figure (which are stupidly large) goes straight into my pension. So at the moment, I'm keeping that flowing as that is the true cost to me.

Yes, this is where I am. I think the iX 'costs' around £14k p.a. and I could really do with boosting my pension by this amount, but on the other hand, it is a nice car. I also have another 17yrs of private school fees to pay, so retirement is a little way off for me! ;D I think the way I will go is a second hand EV, once decent ones fall into a sensible price bracket, until I fill out my pension annual allowance (should I ever get there!).

All that said, the 435i is going to be a hard act to follow. Other than my ar$e not fitting in the M-Sport seats, its a really nice motor!

I don't have a pension.

I should imagine a man of independent means such as yourself is well above such paltry financial trifles  :-*

Title: Re: Who owns a milk float on here?
Post by: Mr Skrunts on 16 June 2025, 14:12:29
I don't have a pension.

I had 2 but sold one last week. ::)
Title: Re: Who owns a milk float on here?
Post by: TheBoy on 16 June 2025, 14:33:17
These figures you guys are bandying around are making my head hurt!  ;D
Me too, that's why we drive crap old cars ;D

With new cars getting more crap with every model year, who are the fools here? ;)
Not to mention all the nanny shit that you have to disable on every single start.
Title: Re: Who owns a milk float on here?
Post by: TheBoy on 16 June 2025, 14:37:28
I did lease through our company scheme for a few years. Not quite the same as normal leasing but something similar to Mr DTM I would imagine. No deposit, no insurance, no road fund, no maintenance etc., I simply just had to put fuel in it. It was a good scheme to start with, the vehicles were reasonably priced and the cost was deducted from my wages before I even saw it, so nothing could be simpler.
Mrs TB had that scheme in the early days, when it was still 600s and 800s being produced at the Mini plant.  Absolute no brainer, though only open to those that had worked there for more than 10 years, so she had to wait to join.

That all went tits up when BMW sold it all....
Title: Re: Who owns a milk float on here?
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 16 June 2025, 14:56:45
Hence looking at i5 Touring, sat in one last week. I did very much like it. Would order with a tow bar, so I can haul a trailer, bike carrier on the back. (kids are loving cycling at the moment)

I would also shift the spend into money "I do not see" and free up some funds that do hit by bank account.

Plus changes in taking kids in etc, increased miles.


What would be the down payment and subsequent monthly payments on that?

It's a nice enough car but a bit 'generic' perhaps.

Salary Sacrifice = No down payment.

Cost can vary dramatically, based on personal tax status. (20%/40%/60% tax payer)

I worked out the real world loss to me is £475/m.

That was 15k pa, i5 Touring, various packs, active suspension, tow bar, everything I would want.

That £475 includes the car, insurance, maintenance, tyres etc. Other cars with same deal:

£400 I could have a Tesla Model Y RWD

£275 for a Renult 5.

I would strike the Renault 5 off, have literally just got back from having a go in one, you wouldn't fit  ;D

The baguette holder is also another good reason to avoid !
Title: Re: Who owns a milk float on here?
Post by: tunnie on 16 June 2025, 16:05:56

One thing holding me back currently is the 100% of the EV gross figure (which are stupidly large) goes straight into my pension. So at the moment, I'm keeping that flowing as that is the true cost to me.

Yes, this is where I am. I think the iX 'costs' around £14k p.a. and I could really do with boosting my pension by this amount, but on the other hand, it is a nice car. I also have another 17yrs of private school fees to pay, so retirement is a little way off for me! ;D I think the way I will go is a second hand EV, once decent ones fall into a sensible price bracket, until I fill out my pension annual allowance (should I ever get there!).

All that said, the 435i is going to be a hard act to follow. Other than my ar$e not fitting in the M-Sport seats, its a really nice motor!

i5 with some packs was coming in at around a similar amount!! I might look at LEX prices on those iX, I do prefer the looks of the i5 Touring though.

Luckily no private schools here, the eldest liked one when she went for a school competition, but soon discounted when we saw the yearly cost  ;D
Title: Re: Who owns a milk float on here?
Post by: tunnie on 16 June 2025, 16:06:50
Hence looking at i5 Touring, sat in one last week. I did very much like it. Would order with a tow bar, so I can haul a trailer, bike carrier on the back. (kids are loving cycling at the moment)

I would also shift the spend into money "I do not see" and free up some funds that do hit by bank account.

Plus changes in taking kids in etc, increased miles.


What would be the down payment and subsequent monthly payments on that?

It's a nice enough car but a bit 'generic' perhaps.

Salary Sacrifice = No down payment.

Cost can vary dramatically, based on personal tax status. (20%/40%/60% tax payer)

I worked out the real world loss to me is £475/m.

That was 15k pa, i5 Touring, various packs, active suspension, tow bar, everything I would want.

That £475 includes the car, insurance, maintenance, tyres etc. Other cars with same deal:

£400 I could have a Tesla Model Y RWD

£275 for a Renult 5.

I would strike the Renault 5 off, have literally just got back from having a go in one, you wouldn't fit  ;D

The baguette holder is also another good reason to avoid !

 ;D ;D ;D

I had visions of it being a "Little hot hatch" after years of RWD barges. But I don't think it drives like that though.

Like I say the only appeal was the price!
Title: Re: Who owns a milk float on here?
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 16 June 2025, 17:07:54
Hence looking at i5 Touring, sat in one last week. I did very much like it. Would order with a tow bar, so I can haul a trailer, bike carrier on the back. (kids are loving cycling at the moment)

I would also shift the spend into money "I do not see" and free up some funds that do hit by bank account.

Plus changes in taking kids in etc, increased miles.


What would be the down payment and subsequent monthly payments on that?

It's a nice enough car but a bit 'generic' perhaps.

Salary Sacrifice = No down payment.

Cost can vary dramatically, based on personal tax status. (20%/40%/60% tax payer)

I worked out the real world loss to me is £475/m.

That was 15k pa, i5 Touring, various packs, active suspension, tow bar, everything I would want.

That £475 includes the car, insurance, maintenance, tyres etc. Other cars with same deal:

£400 I could have a Tesla Model Y RWD

£275 for a Renult 5.

I would strike the Renault 5 off, have literally just got back from having a go in one, you wouldn't fit  ;D

The baguette holder is also another good reason to avoid !

 ;D ;D ;D

I had visions of it being a "Little hot hatch" after years of RWD barges. But I don't think it drives like that though.

Like I say the only appeal was the price!

Renault 5 Turbo from the eighties. :)