Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: tunnie on 27 September 2008, 22:22:50
-
lost 90% of its value since Jan, plans to Nationalise it tomorrow!
-
shockwaves reached here.. :(
-
Any one know if there are any problems with the Yorkshire Building Society?
-
Fortis Turkey Branches will be closed soon..
And some car factories stopped production :(
This is the beginning!
-
If I had any money it would be under the mattress for the moment :(
-
If I had any money it would be under the mattress for the moment :(
gold or diamonds, just like the 1920's or the wars.... :(
-
If I had any money it would be under the mattress for the moment :(
yep..the last time my citizens started to think like that, disaster started ;D
-
may seem irrelevant with the subject but its directly related,
for the nuclear power plant only the Russians attended the invitation..
-
i seam to be one of the few people in a good position, savings are mounting up, property prices are coming down.
This time next year i might be able to get my foot on the property ladder.
-
Trouble is money under the mattress might not be worth much if inflation gets hold.
Gold and diamonds might well be a better bet.
When you think about it the value of anything is an illusion. Stuff is only worth what people are prepared to pay , if no-one wants what you've got to sell , it's not worth anything.
I suppose if things get really bad food and shelter are the basics.
Maybe we'll be OK with a vegetable patch and a mud hut(with the miggy parked outside of course)
-
Trouble is money under the mattress might not be worth much if inflation gets hold.
Gold and diamonds might well be a better bet.
When you think about it the value of anything is an illusion. Stuff is only worth what people are prepared to pay , if no-one wants what you've got to sell , it's not worth anything.
I suppose if things get really bad food and shelter are the basics.
Maybe we'll be OK with a vegetable patch and a mud hut(with the miggy parked outside of course)
yep..if things go worse savings must be converted..
-
I do remember the last financial crisis. People seem to forget that bubbles are unstable and prone to bursting. I must admit that last time there weren't quite the same pressures in the sense of more than one financial institution collapsing, but I guess each financial crisis is unique.., otherwise they wouldn't happen. Its not going to be a comfortable ride thru it, but it never is.
But they do end eventually, we just all have to do what we can to get thru it as best we can. I do remember last time people saying they would never be able to buy a property again, they would never recover etc.., but I am sure most did and probably ended up even better off than they were before the last crisis. It WILL end, in spite of fuel prices going up etc.., we humans are very adaptable and crafty enough to survive things like this I think.
-
I do remember the last financial crisis. People seem to forget that bubbles are unstable and prone to bursting. I must admit that last time there weren't quite the same pressures in the sense of more than one financial institution collapsing, but I guess each financial crisis is unique.., otherwise they wouldn't happen. Its not going to be a comfortable ride thru it, but it never is.
But they do end eventually, we just all have to do what we can to get thru it as best we can. I do remember last time people saying they would never be able to buy a property again, they would never recover etc.., but I am sure most did and probably ended up even better off than they were before the last crisis. It WILL end, in spite of fuel prices going up etc.., we humans are very adaptable and crafty enough to survive things like this I think.
That make you over 90 years old, if you ignore the second world war. the 80's was a walk in the park compared to this ::) ::) ::)
-
Nope.., I was at the rough end of that one.., lost a house etc. Believe u me, it was no walk in the park. Neither will this one be.., but it is surmountable.
-
I do remember the last financial crisis. People seem to forget that bubbles are unstable and prone to bursting. I must admit that last time there weren't quite the same pressures in the sense of more than one financial institution collapsing, but I guess each financial crisis is unique.., otherwise they wouldn't happen. Its not going to be a comfortable ride thru it, but it never is.
But they do end eventually, we just all have to do what we can to get thru it as best we can. I do remember last time people saying they would never be able to buy a property again, they would never recover etc.., but I am sure most did and probably ended up even better off than they were before the last crisis. It WILL end, in spite of fuel prices going up etc.., we humans are very adaptable and crafty enough to survive things like this I think.
That is exactly the nature of the problem this time, with them going down like dominos. :(
Once one fails it affects the worth / confidence of the next weakest finacial institution in the row, as well as all others because they are interlinked due to their past greed in "getting a bit of the action" :(
Once confidence is weakended in the financial markets as it now, then the investors pull out and the whole downward spiral process goes even faster. :(
The great governments of the World have now a hell of a lot to do to slow this crisis down , let alone stop it in the short term! :'(
The 1980s crisis was very serious, but no way so serious, global and on the scale this is. That is why some financial doomsters are comparing this with the Wall Street Crash of 1929!! :o :o :o
.......and NO I am not old enough to remeber that one!! ;D ;D ;D ;)
-
Nope.., I was at the rough end of that one.., lost a house etc. Believe u me, it was no walk in the park. Neither will this one be.., but it is surmountable.
So did I in 1985
And yes it was, no idea where this one is going :(
-
The problem is that all this negative talk makes for a self-fulfilling prophecy. The more the media speculates about institutions and plays on the fear factor, the more people will bring about that very situation. B&B had a default rate of around 1.8% on its own mortgages and did have a portfolio of debt with a >5% default rate, but it got shot of the latter last week. It wasn't too badly off, from what I can judge. The problem is that the media piranhas start to encircle the next victim and, bingo, millions of pounds are wiped of B&B's share values and withdrawn from accounts. Net result is a failed bank, but more importantly, even less confidence in the market place. So people spend less, companies make less money, lay-off workers and more mortgages go into default. Bring on the next victim!
As I've said before, it's all a question of confidence. There's no science in all this, just emotion. There's still the same amount of money sloshing around the system as before, it just starts to freeze up when the doom-mongers take over.
Technically, we could be out of this in months, if the media put a more positive spin on things. However, with the BBC putting out pages entitled "What would financial Armageddon look like?", I don't hold out much hope in the short term.
-
Meanwhile,our pension funds are going down the toilet,because when the "greedy bankers " arent making fortunes,our pension funds which they invest for us,arent making money either. :(
-
I agree Nickbat. We just have to concentrate on the fact that things have been bad before, the mud eventually cleared and things got better. Pessimism has a certain amount of survival value but only a certain amount.
-
Nickbat is right, media sprays fuel over the fire..
the reality is -as it started- low interest non-returning mortgage credits..Somebody had to pay the bill..
And if the governments dont response quickly, it will spread..
so government quarantees are the key..
-
Remember that all things are cyclical. When the dust settles (and it will), there will be quite a few opportunities out there. Tunnie's right about the cheaper housing and there will be opportunities for buying bargain shares and businesses. The difficulty is reading when the market bottoms out. Boom and bust is a natural and unavoidable cycle, and prudent individuals and governments (unlike our current lot!) will put money away in the good times to see them through the bad times.
Pensions are long-term investments and they will recover in time once the balance of stocks, commodities, housing etc have regained their equilibrium. Dunno WHEN that will happen, just know it will. :y
-
Nickbat is right, media sprays fuel over the fire..
the reality is -as it started- low interest non-returning mortgage credits..Somebody had to pay the bill..
And if the governments dont response quickly, it will spread..
so government quarantees are the key..
Cem, you're right, but at some point, governments will draw a line at helping every failing business - with the result that more companies fail and unemployment inevitably rises. However, with increased unemployment comes increased government expenditure on social security. Then comes the crunch. Do you increase tax on those still working to pay for the extra expenditure or do you reduce taxes and interest rates to kick-start the economy? Were I PM, I would do the latter. Lower taxes and lower interest rates get the money moving around the system again.
-
Our current lot would raise taxes (again) - as the left always do.
The next lot,gawd knows what they will do, other than spend a lot of time trying to work out which is their *rse and which is their elbow. :(
gormless gordon wouldnt know how to make serious tax cuts if his life depended on it.
-
Nickbat is right, media sprays fuel over the fire..
the reality is -as it started- low interest non-returning mortgage credits..Somebody had to pay the bill..
And if the governments dont response quickly, it will spread..
so government quarantees are the key..
Cem, you're right, but at some point, governments will draw a line at helping every failing business - with the result that more companies fail and unemployment inevitably rises. However, with increased unemployment comes increased government expenditure on social security. Then comes the crunch. Do you increase tax on those still working to pay for the extra expenditure or do you reduce taxes and interest rates to kick-start the economy? Were I PM, I would do the latter. Lower taxes and lower interest rates get the money moving around the system again.
we had a solution for that..give and take back..inflation ;D
smooth crisis..
-
Nickbat is right, media sprays fuel over the fire..
the reality is -as it started- low interest non-returning mortgage credits..Somebody had to pay the bill..
And if the governments dont response quickly, it will spread..
so government quarantees are the key..
Cem, you're right, but at some point, governments will draw a line at helping every failing business - with the result that more companies fail and unemployment inevitably rises. However, with increased unemployment comes increased government expenditure on social security. Then comes the crunch. Do you increase tax on those still working to pay for the extra expenditure or do you reduce taxes and interest rates to kick-start the economy? Were I PM, I would do the latter. Lower taxes and lower interest rates get the money moving around the system again.
we had a solution for that..give and take back..inflation ;D
smooth crisis..
Cem, don't give away government secrets like that. They think we don't realise what they're up to! ;D ;D ;D
-
BBC News has been saying that talks are going on for the B&B to be Nationalised and sorted with a possibibility of giving it to Northern Rock.
This in turn needs to be finalised by the time the Asin markets open to stop a further drop in it's value.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7640143.stm
(The Northen Rock was mentioned in the 4am news on BBC)
-
The beeb have just gone live to washington to hear various politicians speaking. It sounds like they have agreed the big bail out plan in principle,but still need to get it down on paper in an agreed form.
hopefully it will be the the start of seeing some light at the end of the tunnel.
-
It's all bloody stupid, quidlines should have been in place, this situation could have been avoided.
Kerb the greed on traders, equal to less risk trying to get rich quick.
Better mortgage guidlines stopping people over stretching themselves. The 95% mortgage was reasonable, but then the 100% and more morgages just got daft, people jumped on board as they saw the rate dropping, they never planned for it going back up again.
Lets face it they (the Government) turned a blind eye, as house prices were booming, so were all the building trades, and the knock on effect was plenty of money flowing through trade and retail business with more staff being taken on in all area's
Dropping the interest rate at the time might have seemed to be good for the country, in the long term it obviously wasnt.
-
other side of that coin is,when they make lots of money quickly,so does the exchequer/our pension funds,and the economy as a whole.
anyway far more important than that skruntie,motogp live on BBC1 now,see you later. :y
-
I don't think they should ever have been allowed to offer introductory rates on mortgages.
There seem to be a lot of people who started off on a rate of say 4% and they get used to living with the repayments associated with that.
When the introductory period ends and the rate goes back to the standard rate of say 7% , they are struggling because they haven't budgetted for the increase.
Recipe for disaster if you ask me .
-
its the banks #1 duty to collect serious information for the credit user..
-
i blame homes under the hammer ;D
(day time tv show for people outside UK)
-
i blame homes under the hammer ;D
(day time tv show for people outside UK)
thanks Tunnie :y
-
i blame homes under the hammer ;D
(day time tv show for people outside UK)
thanks Tunnie :y
It made things look so easy, buy a house cheap at auction, do it up, and rent it out.
I am sure 1000's of people have done it based on programs like that, there are just loads of similar programs, saying how easy it was and had stories of people making 60k profit on the value of the house + rental income
-
i blame homes under the hammer ;D
(day time tv show for people outside UK)
thanks Tunnie :y
It made things look so easy, buy a house cheap at auction, do it up, and rent it out.
I am sure 1000's of people have done it based on programs like that, there are just loads of similar programs, saying how easy it was and had stories of people making 60k profit on the value of the house + rental income
now currently they are debating the same subject on hotbird-BBC World News
-
Here's some imporant things from
xxxxx
"The fury reached a pinnacle on Friday when Congress suddenly rebelled and refused to rubber-stamp the proposed $700 billion deal. Surely the climax of the day, and possibly the low point in the eight years of the Bush administration, was the moment when the Treasury Secretary, Henry Paulson, got down on his knees in front of Nancy Pelosi, the Speaker of the House of Representatives, and begged her not to block the plan.
There are many reasons why the Wall Street spectacle has created so much antagonism while the World Trade Centre attacks created so much unity, but two matter in particular.
The first concerns what can only be called comprehensibility. Everyone watched those planes hit the skyscrapers, and everyone understood what it meant. By contrast, I don't believe many American congressmen, let along many American voters, really understand the credit crisis, or why it is unravelling so fast.
Nor, let's face it, do many people really understand the proposed bail-out deal. What does a sum like $700 billion, a number apparently plucked out of the air, actually mean? And why didn't the people who now say they know how to spend it do something to prevent the current crisis from happening in the first place?
Things might be different if the nation were led, at the moment, by an administration with a reputation for honesty and competence.
But this, too, is different: in 2001, President Bush still had the support of the majority of the nation, and thus had a wide mandate to deal with the post-9/11 crisis. He no longer has that support and he no longer has that mandate. No one any longer trusts his administration's military and foreign policy leaders. Why should we trust his administration's financial appointees either?"
-
I agree with you about the "homes under the hammer" and "Place in the Sun" as well type of programmes. They have a lot to answer for.
I have a couiple of questions.
1. Who "broke" the you can't borrow more than twice your salary rule that was prevalent back in the seventies.? The French aren't in the smelly stuff because they have more responsible lending.
2. How come the government can afford to bail out the Band B bank but can't afford to build nuclear power stations- the only solution to the UK's long term generating of electric.? Instead we gave them to the French for a measly £10 billion. That will really come back to haunt us one day!
varche
-
The whole crisis has been originally caused, as many of you have stated, on pure greed, with individuals borrowing well beyond their means and the banks taking stupid risks to secure what they thought at the time would be easy profit. Hence the sub-prime mortgage fiasco! >:( >:( >:( >:( Bad loan decisions on bad risks, but attracting high interest rates sucked them all in line, hook and sinker! >:( >:(
This is capitalism at its worse, but of course when things are settled it is a system that does greatly aid our everyday lives in giving opportunities to us all to advance financially in our lives. All of us, especially me who was right at the front of the Thatcher era consumerism and enjoying the riches as some "can do it all" business woman, must learn greater moral awareness and recognise we cannot have it all when we want! ::) ::) ::) ::) That is the evil of our present society.
The current crisis will eventually come to an end like all things come to an end, but one chilling thought is that many top economists seem to be stating that this could develop into a full 1929 type Wall St. Crash. It took until 1954 for the effects of that to be finally eradicated! :(
-
From all the things I read , there come many questions as a conclusion which I want to share :
* up to now the size of crunch is gone too far passing the limits of mortgage sector..
* there are many political and power fights behind the scene
* the money "lost" in the crisis actually not lost, only changed from many to few hands..(not counting the home owners anyway they will loose the homes)
* why the hell happen all the bad things in the last 8 years..What a coincidence..
-
update :
Fortis next..
-
the dominos keep tumbling. :(
-
as for the us plan the first half 350 billion $ will be used for trial..if effective as planned the second half will be on the line..
-
I found an old B&B bank book today, has £5.00 in it from 1984 how much do you think that is worth.
Also found an Abbey share account book, £2.56 dated 1977.
Should have a Yorkshire BS book as well, going back to early 80's no idea where it is though. ::) ::) ::)
-
might have accrued some interest , Mike -dont order the veyron until you check how much though. :y
-
might have accrued some interest , Mike -dont order the veyron until you check how much though. :y
And I was getting all excited... :)
-
The whole crisis has been originally caused, as many of you have stated, on pure greed, with individuals borrowing well beyond their means and the banks taking stupid risks to secure what they thought at the time would be easy profit. Hence the sub-prime mortgage fiasco! >:( >:( >:( >:( Bad loan decisions on bad risks, but attracting high interest rates sucked them all in line, hook and sinker! >:( >:(
This is capitalism at its worse, but of course when things are settled it is a system that does greatly aid our everyday lives in giving opportunities to us all to advance financially in our lives. All of us, especially me who was right at the front of the Thatcher era consumerism and enjoying the riches as some "can do it all" business woman, must learn greater moral awareness and recognise we cannot have it all when we want! ::) ::) ::) ::) That is the evil of our present society.
The current crisis will eventually come to an end like all things come to an end, but one chilling thought is that many top economists seem to be stating that this could develop into a full 1929 type Wall St. Crash. It took until 1954 for the effects of that to be finally eradicated! :(
Not often I disagree with you Lizzie, you're normally on my wavelength. :y
However, it would seem that the origins of this - as I have noted elsewhere - were not "greedy" banks but, US government interference in the market (albeit well-meaning interference) which began under Carter and were intensified under Clinton.
See http://www.ibdeditorials.com/IBDArticles.aspx?id=306632135350949
-
wouldnt be surprised if something similar has happened here at some point,and then got buried in the spin machine. :-/
people have been able to borrow ludicrous amounts of money in the last decade.
-
wouldnt be surprised if something similar has happened here at some point,and then got buried in the spin machine. :-/
You never know. :-/
Social-engineering is a major pastime in Whitehall.
-
And at the Beeb/universitys/councils/schools etc. :y >:(
-
I think we wil have 3 or 4 super banks at this rate, I had accounts of some sort at about 3x as many companies - all now merged.
Fortis - my insurers
I didn't even noticed A&L getting purchased
-
The whole crisis has been originally caused, as many of you have stated, on pure greed, with individuals borrowing well beyond their means and the banks taking stupid risks to secure what they thought at the time would be easy profit. Hence the sub-prime mortgage fiasco! >:( >:( >:( >:( Bad loan decisions on bad risks, but attracting high interest rates sucked them all in line, hook and sinker! >:( >:(
This is capitalism at its worse, but of course when things are settled it is a system that does greatly aid our everyday lives in giving opportunities to us all to advance financially in our lives. All of us, especially me who was right at the front of the Thatcher era consumerism and enjoying the riches as some "can do it all" business woman, must learn greater moral awareness and recognise we cannot have it all when we want! ::) ::) ::) ::) That is the evil of our present society.
The current crisis will eventually come to an end like all things come to an end, but one chilling thought is that many top economists seem to be stating that this could develop into a full 1929 type Wall St. Crash. It took until 1954 for the effects of that to be finally eradicated! :(
Not often I disagree with you Lizzie, you're normally on my wavelength. :y
However, it would seem that the origins of this - as I have noted elsewhere - were not "greedy" banks but, US government interference in the market (albeit well-meaning interference) which began under Carter and were intensified under Clinton.
See http://www.ibdeditorials.com/IBDArticles.aspx?id=306632135350949
Very good article Nickbat :y
I want to change this word "interference" with "mutual interference"..
-
Any one know if there are any problems with the Yorkshire Building Society?
The Yorkshire Building Society are a Building Society - they don't do banking. They told me that when I tried to open a foreign currency account with them a few months ago.
I would imagine that makes them safe. Anyway, if your mortgage is with them, there shouldn't be any problems. At least, I hope that's right - that's where my mortgage is too. :)
-
The problem is that all this negative talk makes for a self-fulfilling prophecy. The more the media speculates about institutions and plays on the fear factor, the more people will bring about that very situation. B&B had a default rate of around 1.8% on its own mortgages and did have a portfolio of debt with a >5% default rate, but it got shot of the latter last week. It wasn't too badly off, from what I can judge. The problem is that the media piranhas start to encircle the next victim and, bingo, millions of pounds are wiped of B&B's share values and withdrawn from accounts. Net result is a failed bank, but more importantly, even less confidence in the market place. So people spend less, companies make less money, lay-off workers and more mortgages go into default. Bring on the next victim!
As I've said before, it's all a question of confidence. There's no science in all this, just emotion. There's still the same amount of money sloshing around the system as before, it just starts to freeze up when the doom-mongers take over.
Technically, we could be out of this in months, if the media put a more positive spin on things. However, with the BBC putting out pages entitled "What would financial Armageddon look like?", I don't hold out much hope in the short term.
Sorry, much as I detest the media and the band-waggon mentality, I dont think the current financial collywobbles can be laid at their door. It seem to be market led, and I doubt very much if the serious players (pension funds and the like) really care very much about what the "experts" on The Sun and The Guardian are writing about.
As for the Great British Public (and the Great American Public), I doubt if they hold enough privately owned shares to make any difference. Most of them are there for the long term and won't go out and sell when the price is dropping anyway.
I must declare an interest: I always wanted to be a fat cat. Never had any capital, never saved any money. :(