Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: gwa on 14 October 2008, 21:48:10
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Not sure of the best place to put this, so MODS move it if you wish
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Unwitting motorists face £1,000 fines as thousands of photocard driving licences expire
Thousands of motorists are at risk of being fined up to £1,000 because they are unwittingly driving without a valid licence.
They risk prosecution after failing to spot the extremely small print on their photocard licence which says it automatically expires after 10 years and has to be renewed - even though drivers are licensed to drive until the age of 70.
The fiasco has come to light a decade after the first batch of photo licences was issued in July 1998, just as the they start to expire.
Motoring organisations blamed the Government for the fiasco and said 'most' drivers believed their licences were for life.
<http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2008/09/11/article-1054636-05D574230000044D- 173_468x293_popup.jpg> Enlarge A mock-up driving licence
A mock-up driving licence from 1998 when the photocards were launched shows the imminent expiry date as item '4b'
They said officials had failed to publicise sufficiently the fact that
new-style licences - unlike the old paper ones - expire after a set period and have to be renewed.
To rub salt into wounds, drivers will have to a pay £17.50 to renew their card - a charge which critics have condemned as a 'stealth tax' and which will earn the Treasury an estimated £437million over 25 years.
Official DVLA figures reveal that while 16,136 expired this summer, so far only 11,566 drivers have renewed, leaving 4,570 outstanding.
With another 300,000 photocard licences due to expire over the coming year, experts fear the number of invalid licences will soar, putting thousands more drivers in breach of the law and at risk of a fine.
At the heart of the confusion is the small print on the tiny credit-card-size photo licence, which is used in conjunction with the paper version.
Just below the driver name on the front of the photocard licence is a series of dates and details - each one numbered.
Number 4b features a date in tiny writing, but no explicit explanation as to what it means.
The date's significance is only explained if the driver turns over the card and reads the key on the back which states that '4b' means 'licence valid to'.
Even more confusingly, an adjacent table on the rear of the card sets out how long the driver is registered to hold a licence - that is until his or her 70th birthday.
A total of 25million new-style licences have been issued but - motoring
experts say - drivers were never sufficiently warned they would expire after 10 years.
Motorists who fail to renew their licences in time are allowed to continue driving. But the DVLA says they could be charged with 'failing to surrender their licence', an offence carrying a £1,000 fine.
AA president, Edmund King said: 'It is not generally known that photocard licences expire: there appears to be a lack of information that people will have to renew these licences.
'People think they have already paid them for once over and that is it.
'It will come as a surprise to motorists and a shock that they have to pay an extra £17.50.'
The AA called on the Government to use the annual £450million from traffic enforcement fines to offset the renewal charge.
Before photocard licences were introduced, old-style paper licences were valid until the age of 70.
'Many motorists still believe this to be the case with the new ones."
Driving instructor Tony Carter, of Canterbury, said: 'It's outrageous;
everybody thinks their driving licence is for life.
'Why - when you have already paid £50 for your photocard licence - should you pay the Government an extra £17.50 every 10 years?
'It's another stealth tax. Drivers will be very annoyed.'
Today the DVLA said the date of expiry was carried on the new-style
licences, even though the AA says this is 'not clear'.
The Agency was unable to say whether motorists were told the licences would expire when they were first issued.
It said it was issuing postal reminders to drivers whose photograph was due to expire, to get the renewal message across. But a spokesman admitted this was the limit of the DVLA's publicity.
Experts say many drivers will slip through the net because DVLA records are inaccurate and many motorists have changed address, making it impossible to trace them.
A DVLA spokesman said: 'Previous experience has shown that wide- scale publicity is less effective and can generate enquiries and concerns from those not affected. Instead, DVLA focussed on targeted publicity to ensure that we got the message to the right person at the right time.'
The Driving Standards Agency is allowing L-test candidates with out-of- date photocard licences to sit their driving tests as long as they provide a valid passport. This concession will end in January next year, raising the prospect that some L-test candidates will be turned away.
The DVLA said no one had so far been charged with failing to surrender a licence.
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Experts say many drivers will slip through the net because DVLA records are inaccurate and many motorists have changed address, making it impossible to trace them.
Also a potential £1000 fine - not updating your address.
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if they can be bothered to send out notification of an intended fine, or an actual fine, why cant they just be slightly more sympathetic of the fact that as humans its possible to forget to do something, and actually send out a notification saying "dont forget to renew your driving license card"!!!
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Just sent my licence off to get 3 points on it & realised it runs out next year. Wouldnt of known otherwise. One of those things you dont usually check put it in my wallet & forget about it.
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Yet another way to rip off the motorist. I was under the assuption that you did not need a licence as long as you were entitled to hold a licence for the vehicle you were driving, as stated on my original licence. having paid for my original provisional then again to have first my motor cycle entitlement then again for my car which we were told would last till the day before our 70th birthday then conned again for a photo licence which supposedly would be stronger and last better but is useless without the paper counter foil. I knew it had to be replaced to have the photo upgraded but I assumed this was not at our expense. silly me
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Crikey!! Imagine a system so complex that you have to look at both sides of the licence to work out when it's valid to! And that writing truly is tiny - barely perceptible. And £1.75 a year. A year! This outrage must be stopped immediately and those responsible sued!
Siiiigh. I can think of one or two things in the world slightly more worth moaning about.
:)
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They send a car tax reminder, so why cant they send a licence reminder as part of the £17.50 renewal. To**ers
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if they can be bothered to send out notification of an intended fine, or an actual fine, why cant they just be slightly more sympathetic of the fact that as humans its possible to forget to do something, and actually send out a notification saying "dont forget to renew your driving license card"!!!
Don't deal with government agencies much then?? ;D ;D
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Crikey!! Imagine a system so complex that you have to look at both sides of the licence to work out when it's valid to! And that writing truly is tiny - barely perceptible. And £1.75 a year. A year! This outrage must be stopped immediately and those responsible sued!
Siiiigh. I can think of one or two things in the world slightly more worth moaning about.
:)
Steady on now .. thats a whole 3.5 p a week ... we pensioners have to worry about such things .. I mean .. its very nearly the cost of 1/3 miles worth of LPG ......
:D :D :D :D :D :D
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Thanks for this GWA! :y :y :y
I wouldn't have had a clue about this and it is just luck that mine does not run out until September 2011, but this could have been nasty!! :o :o :o :o As I am sure it will be for quite a few motorists!! :( :(
The way this has been done is appalling and reflects again great incompetence within a Government Department over many years!! >:( >:( >:( >:(
I still really cannot understand how, legally, one side of the licence clearly gives an expiry date for the licence covering different vehicle categories (mine to June 2023) and yet there is the small date on the front of September 2011!! :o ::) ::) ::) >:( >:(
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The thing that I think is REALLY poor .. is the financial rip-off they have indulged in ... 3 years ago I had to have a complete new photo licence as I had LGV and PCV qualifications added .. but the new licence wasn't valid for 10 years .. only to the expiry of the "original" .. so I paid for a "new" licence and only got one worth half ... still have to pay for a new one in 2 years time .. :(
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I've still got my paper licence, it runs out in 2045.
:)
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I've still got my paper licence, it runs out in 2045.
:)
You & me too, mine runs out a bit earlier though. ;) :y
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I've still got my paper licence, it runs out in 2045.
:)
You & me too, mine runs out a bit earlier though. ;) :y
which still needs to be up to date - so won't they insist on you getting a photcard if you ever move etc??
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if they can be bothered to send out notification of an intended fine, or an actual fine, why cant they just be slightly more sympathetic of the fact that as humans its possible to forget to do something, and actually send out a notification saying "dont forget to renew your driving license card"!!!
Don't deal with government agencies much then?? ;D ;D
Derrr, I didn't write, just posted it to let people know :-[
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I've still got my paper licence, it runs out in 2045.
:)
Yeah, don't I wish I kept my little red licence book :) :)
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I've still got my paper licence, it runs out in 2045.
:)
You & me too, mine runs out a bit earlier though. ;) :y
which still needs to be up to date - so won't they insist on you getting a photcard if you ever move etc??[/quote]
Yes Herefordelite :y :y, that was when I had to replace mine with the photocard; indeed any change to your personal circumstances that affects your licence will mean that you have to have the photocard. ::) ::) ::) ::)
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I found out the other day you need to have the scrappy piece of green paper as well as your driving licence card if you want to hire a car. Apparently that is where penalty points go.
You would think by now that in this electronic age that a better system could have been devised say ONE card for everything (driving, health, passport, Coventry library, Scarborough swimming baths, National Trust etc). There would be no need for bits of paper for penalties as these could be branded on the individuals in a prominent place. ;D
The concept of a licence for life is way out of date. Much as I hate the concept of spend every five years the Spanish way of a compulsary medical test (18 to 40 euros) every five years after and inc 50 years of ageis a good idea. It is high time the EU standardised DVLA type practices across Europe. That is one useful thing they could do.
varche
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You would think by now that in this electronic age that a better system could have been devised say ONE card for everything (driving, health, passport, Coventry library, Scarborough swimming baths, National Trust etc). There would be no need for bits of paper for penalties as these could be branded on the individuals in a prominent place. ;D
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We could of course go the full hog and just get a chip implanted under the skin - like a dog ::) - & you couuld have your credit card info there too! At least you would be able to lose it! ;D ;D ;D
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I've still got my paper licence, it runs out in 2045.
:)
You & me too, mine runs out a bit earlier though. ;) :y
which still needs to be up to date - so won't they insist on you getting a photcard if you ever move etc??
but until I move, if I ever do, what's on the licence, will stay valid .... apart from my 3 points! ;)
If I move, will I have to pay for a photo licence? :-/ :-/
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Mine runs out in 2015.
I had no idea that it had to be renewed, and I sure as hell aren't going to remember to do it in 7 years time. ;)
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I found out the other day you need to have the scrappy piece of green paper as well as your driving license card if you want to hire a car. Apparently that is where penalty points go.
You would think by now that in this electronic age that a better system could have been devised say ONE card for everything (driving, health, passport, Coventry library, Scarborough swimming baths, National Trust etc). There would be no need for bits of paper for penalties as these could be branded on the individuals in a prominent place. ;D
The concept of a license for life is way out of date. Much as I hate the concept of spend every five years the Spanish way of a compulsory medical test (18 to 40 euros) every five years after and inc 50 years of age is a good idea. It is high time the EU standardised DVLA type practices across Europe. That is one useful thing they could do.
varche
No chance, not with the civil service.
Christ, my local useless council (Rushcliffe), cant even setup a common address data base meaning that if you move you have to ring each department individually to tell them of a change of address!
And of course when they have then been sending correspondence to the wrong address 6 years after the change of address, its your fault you didn't get them because you didn't tell the said department that you never knew existed!
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.......
You would think by now that in this electronic age that a better system could have been devised say ONE card for everything (driving, health, passport, Coventry library, Scarborough swimming baths, National Trust etc). There would be no need for bits of paper for penalties as these could be branded on the individuals in a prominent place. ;D
.......
We could of course go the full hog and just get a chip implanted under the skin - like a dog ::) - & you couuld have your credit card info there too! At least you would be able to lose it! ;D ;D ;D
Yeah, but wife wouldn't be to happy if I started pi$$ing up trees ;D ;D ;D
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We could of course go the full hog and just get a chip implanted under the skin - like a dog
It'll happen one day. >:( The only thing stopping them is that public sector IT procurement in this country would struggle to setup a web cam to stare at their own navels. Doesn't stop them wasting our money trying though.
Kevin
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We could of course go the full hog and just get a chip implanted under the skin - like a dog
It'll happen one day. >:( The only thing stopping them is that public sector IT procurement in this country would struggle to setup a web cam to stare at their own navels. Doesn't stop them wasting our money trying though.
Kevin
I think a jack socket in the back of the head would be more useful
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....... I think a jack socket in the back of the head would be more useful
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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We could of course go the full hog and just get a chip implanted under the skin - like a dog wont be long before we will be like the prodution line in the film" I Robot " only saving grace with these leicences is with HGV entitilment after your 45 you have to renew every 5 years with a medical , but they stiff you for £ 38 for the new digital tacho cards , anything to rip money of the average joe soap >:( >:( >:(
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We could of course go the full hog and just get a chip implanted under the skin - like a dog
It'll happen one day. >:( The only thing stopping them is that public sector IT procurement in this country would struggle to setup a web cam to stare at their own navels. Doesn't stop them wasting our money trying though.
Kevin
I think a jack socket in the back of the head would be more useful
.. but then they wouldn't be able to read it without your knowledge.
Kevin
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I've still got my paper licence, it runs out in 2045.
:)
You & me too, mine runs out a bit earlier though. ;) :y
which still needs to be up to date - so won't they insist on you getting a photcard if you ever move etc??
but until I move, if I ever do, what's on the licence, will stay valid .... apart from my 3 points! ;)
If I move, will I have to pay for a photo licence? :-/ :-/
Yes Andy, if you haven't all ready, they will insist you pay for a new photocard, for which you have to supply a passport sized photo at additional expense!! ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
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Yes Andy, if you haven't all ready, they will insist you pay for a new photocard, for which you have to supply a passport sized photo at additional expense!! ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
Quite a money spinning exercise eh! They say you must ahve something (ID cards?) but you/Joe Public have to pay for it. I think that unless you have lost your old one, then if you have it updated with new information ie change of name due to marrage etc then DVLA should do it for nothing.
i can't see a move in the imminent future so I won't be loosing sleep over it. ;)
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We could of course go the full hog and just get a chip implanted under the skin - like a dog
It'll happen one day. >:( The only thing stopping them is that public sector IT procurement in this country would struggle to setup a web cam to stare at their own navels. Doesn't stop them wasting our money trying though.
Kevin
I think a jack socket in the back of the head would be more useful
Just like a lot of SciFi (sounds like the GITS SAC series)
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Would never have thought to look, but after reading the thread this morning checked mine and it runs out next June :-X