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Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: Marks DTM Calib on 03 December 2006, 17:02:27

Title: Project B......now started
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 03 December 2006, 17:02:27
Needs to be a quick one this as I am currently without wheels!

So, picked up AllenM's car this morning and towed it back to the Omega salvage lot that is my drive, drove Matchless Project 2 over to his house (fully running now) ready for final prep (brake work, suspension checks and cleaning).

The spare set of 2.5 heads are now in the garage under prep, the first one is fully stripped and valves, springs, spring seats, Colet's etc are all cleaned, head is currently undergoing stage 1 cleaning, stage 2 will have to wait as I have no paint stripper left.

So, plan is to get the heads re-built by Wednesday/Thursday, strip the engine on Friday and complete the job on Saturday morning....

Pictures to follow
Title: Re: Project B......now started
Post by: Allenm on 03 December 2006, 17:07:35
Look forward to seeing the progress.  I can compare the work to the last set of photos  ;)

I take it the "B" in project B stands for "Bugger"  ;D

Best of luck with it! Glad to know that the car will be running again soon!
Title: Re: Project B......now started
Post by: MikeDundee on 03 December 2006, 17:07:57
Quote
Needs to be a quick one this as I am currently without wheels!

So, picked up AllenM's car this morning and towed it back to the Omega salvage lot that is my drive, drove Matchless Project 2 over to his house (fully running now) ready for final prep (brake work, suspension checks and cleaning).

The spare set of 2.5 heads are now in the garage under prep, the first one is fully stripped and valves, springs, spring seats, Colet's etc are all cleaned, head is currently undergoing stage 1 cleaning, stage 2 will have to wait as I have no paint stripper left.

So, plan is to get the heads re-built by Wednesday/Thursday,

 :y Unless you get held up in the church? [smiley=beer.gif] [smiley=beer.gif]
Title: Re: Project B......now started
Post by: MikeDundee on 03 December 2006, 17:08:48
Quote
Look forward to seeing the progress.  I can compare the work to the last set of photos  ;)

I take it the "B" in project B stands for "Bugger"  ;D

Best of luck with it! Glad to know that the car will be running again soon!

i thought the B stood for Beer ;D
Title: Re: Project B......now started
Post by: Del Boy on 03 December 2006, 17:55:40
Sounds good :y
Title: Re: Project B......now started
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 03 December 2006, 18:24:49
For anybody who is inetrested, my head cleaning processes are as follows:

1) Strip head, remove valves and stem seals and place colets, springs, valve caps and valve bases in solvent part wash.

2) Remove valves, push them into a labeled piece of cardboard so they can be refitted in the correct places

3) Spray head with traffic film remover and using a small stiff brush (washing up brush is perfect) work it in

4) Pressure wash and repeat until all grease and oil is removed.

5) Coat carbonised areas of head and areas with oil staining with paint stripper and leave to stand for 10-15minutes, then work in with an old tooth brush (the paint stripper will destroy it!) and leave for a further 10 minutes.

6) Rinse well

7) Repeat above as required until clean

8) Clean all mating surfaces with a fine wet and dry (wet) and green scouring pad (stolen from kitchen)

9) Rinse again well.

10) Place each valve in a drill held in a vice

11) With the drill running, clean the valve face and stem to remove any carbon with emery (spit on it to stop it clogging, some soap also helps), then repeat with fine wet and dry (approx 400 grit is good) before running a clean cloth over the valve. Note: do not pace any abrasives on the valve seat!

12) Now re-seat the valves (note, you should only need to use fine paste, these are not A series engines where the valves will be pitted to buggery!)

13) re-assemble the heads.....(new stem seals and exhaust manifold studs and bolts recommended)

14) Fit a spark plug and turn upside down, fill the combustion bowls with a suitable fluid (parafin is perfect, water is NOT ideal due to the surface tension) and leave for half an hour (or even over night). Check the inlet and exhaust ports for signs of fluid leaking passed a poorly seated valve.
Title: Re: Project B......now started
Post by: STMO123 on 03 December 2006, 18:55:51
Quote
For anybody who is inetrested, my head cleaning processes are as follows:

1) Strip head, remove valves and stem seals and place colets, springs, valve caps and valve bases in solvent part wash.

2) Remove valves, push them into a labeled piece of cardboard so they can be refitted in the correct places

3) Spray head with traffic film remover and using a small stiff brush (washing up brush is perfect) work it in

4) Pressure wash and repeat until all grease and oil is removed.

5) Coat carbonised areas of head and areas with oil staining with paint stripper and leave to stand for 10-15minutes, then work in with an old tooth brush (the paint stripper will destroy it!) and leave for a further 10 minutes.

6) Rinse well

7) Repeat above as required until clean

8) Clean all mating surfaces with a fine wet and dry (wet) and green scouring pad (stolen from kitchen)

9) Rinse again well.

10) Place each valve in a drill held in a vice

11) With the drill running, clean the valve face and stem to remove any carbon with emery (spit on it to stop it clogging, some soap also helps), then repeat with fine wet and dry (approx 400 grit is good) before running a clean cloth over the valve. Note: do not pace any abrasives on the valve seat!

12) Now re-seat the valves (note, you should only need to use fine paste, these are not A series engines where the valves will be pitted to buggery!)

13) re-assemble the heads.....(new stem seals and exhaust manifold studs and bolts recommended)

14) Fit a spark plug and turn upside down, fill the combustion bowls with a suitable fluid (parafin is perfect, water is NOT ideal due to the surface tension) and leave for half an hour (or even over night). Check the inlet and exhaust ports for signs of fluid leaking passed a poorly seated valve.

Sounds like a five minute job Mark ;D
Title: Re: Project B......now started
Post by: Martin_1962 on 03 December 2006, 21:15:19
Where is grind ports to make them a bit bigger?

Also no skim heads to raise CR to a lot
Title: Re: Project B......now started
Post by: TheBoy on 03 December 2006, 21:46:34
Cams out of MV6 going in it?
Title: Re: Project B......now started
Post by: Markie on 03 December 2006, 21:54:09
sounds good Mark, shame its not a "for pleasure job" :-/ if there were no time constraints the video would be good!
Title: Re: Project B......now started
Post by: Martin_1962 on 03 December 2006, 22:00:25
Quote
Cams out of MV6 going in it?

Why cams - why not engine :-/
Title: Re: Project B......now started
Post by: TheBoy on 03 December 2006, 22:02:44
Nearly same power, yet still 2.5 - I imagine Marks_DTM's insurance is gonna get a bit steeper now....
Title: Re: Project B......now started
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 04 December 2006, 09:21:37
Thirty quid increase on the insurance at the moment.....

Cant get the cams out of the 3.0 as it goes today and the bonnet wont open (And I realy have tried!).

When I do head numebr two, I will post pics to put together a how to on a head re-build.

As for porting it, the heads flow pretty dam well anyway so not realy worth while.
Title: Re: Project B......now started
Post by: Admin on 04 December 2006, 10:56:51
If you need anything, or if I can be of any assistance, just let me know! :)
Title: Re: Project B......now started
Post by: nixoro on 04 December 2006, 11:44:53
Blimey Mark sounds like your gonna be busy, Good Luck with it all :y
Title: Re: Project B......now started
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 04 December 2006, 12:04:55
All parts on order, paint stripper I can hopefully pickup at lunchtime, gasket set should be here tomorrow (need the stem seals for the head re-build).

Monday:Finish cleaning the first head and lap the valves in (limited time tonight).

Tuesday:Assemble first head and do parrafin test, strip second head and start cleaning process.

Wednesday: Complete second head and do parafin test

Thursday: Strip heads off car, transfer exhaust manifolds and heat shields to re-furbished heads.

Friday: Fit heads to car and start re-assembly

Saturday AM: Complete job.....

Contingency......Sunday morning (Got Santa Special on Sat PM!)
Title: Re: Project B......now started
Post by: hotel21 on 04 December 2006, 12:14:23
Your diary and time allocation reads similar to mine did as of a few weeks ago.   :o  
Title: Re: Project B......now started
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 04 December 2006, 22:31:22
Hotel21....did you have to do a set of heads to/

Ok, good progress tonight.

Number one head is now fully cleaned and the valves lapped in ready for assembly....

Number two head is stripped, the colets, springs, spring base and tops all cleaned and the 6 exhaust valves cleaned. This head needs new inlets (they are slightly bent) so 6 inlets obtained from my old 3.0 heads and cleaned.

Tomorrow will be head number 1 build, head numerb 2 clean and lap valves in and build (assuming the head gasket kit turns up tomorrow!).

So, might be close to one day ahead of schedule.....so the tear down could start on Wednesday.
Title: Re: Project B......now started
Post by: Markie on 04 December 2006, 22:49:12
sounds good Mark  :y can i ask, the parrafin test, whats that? :-/
Title: Re: Project B......now started
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 04 December 2006, 22:52:27
Its a simple way of checking the valves are all nicely seated.

You grind your valves in and re-assemble the heads as normal but, before fitting to the car, you fit some spark plugs (to basicaly plug the spark plug hole) and fill the combustion bowl with paraffin and leave it ......if the valves are well seated then all is good, if there not then you will see the paraffin leak through and into the ports.....a simple test which can save a future strip down!
Title: Re: Project B......now started
Post by: Markie on 04 December 2006, 22:55:16
Quote
Its a simple way of checking the valves are all nicely seated.

You grind your valves in and re-assemble the heads as normal but, before fitting to the car, you fit some spark plugs (to basicaly plug the spark plug hole) and fill the combustion bowl with paraffin and leave it ......if the valves are well seated then all is good, if there not then you will see the paraffin leak through and into the ports.....a simple test which can save a future strip down!


thats one i may need soon, depending on Vectras Behaviour  :-/

Thanks Mark :y
Title: Re: Project B......now started
Post by: hotel21 on 05 December 2006, 00:20:14
Sounds like you are making good progress, Mark.  Keep it up, but watch not overdo it.   :-/

No, not done an engine recently but did have a heavy diary for a number of weeks prior to 14th November.

Then the big Head Diary Keeper decided that it was time to reassess the situation.

Now I take things a little easier and ensure that the candle is lit at one end only and with a flame size I can decide.....   :D

Take care matey....
Title: Re: Project B......now started
Post by: omegaV6CD on 05 December 2006, 13:28:28
Quote
Its a simple way of checking the valves are all nicely seated.

You grind your valves in and re-assemble the heads as normal but, before fitting to the car, you fit some spark plugs (to basicaly plug the spark plug hole) and fill the combustion bowl with paraffin and leave it ......if the valves are well seated then all is good, if there not then you will see the paraffin leak through and into the ports.....a simple test which can save a future strip down!

I have done that in the past using petrol instead. What are the viscosity difference between parafin and petrol?
Title: Re: Project B......now started
Post by: theolodian on 05 December 2006, 13:36:31
Quote
Quote
Its a simple way of checking the valves are all nicely seated.

You grind your valves in and re-assemble the heads as normal but, before fitting to the car, you fit some spark plugs (to basicaly plug the spark plug hole) and fill the combustion bowl with paraffin and leave it ......if the valves are well seated then all is good, if there not then you will see the paraffin leak through and into the ports.....a simple test which can save a future strip down!

I have done that in the past using petrol instead. What are the viscosity difference between parafin and petrol?
I thought parafin was a solid?  But I can tell you that petrol is lighter than water.
Title: Re: Project B......now started
Post by: hotel21 on 05 December 2006, 13:40:57
Parrafin is (almost) the same as what is called Kerosene across the pond.  Basically the same as JetA1 as used in aviation, I think, but someone clever will correct.

You also get parrafin wax which is the solids removed from the refining process to get to parrafin, thats where you may be getting confusssssed a tad!   :D
Title: Re: Project B......now started
Post by: CaptainZok on 05 December 2006, 13:41:20
Quote
Quote
Quote
Its a simple way of checking the valves are all nicely seated.

You grind your valves in and re-assemble the heads as normal but, before fitting to the car, you fit some spark plugs (to basicaly plug the spark plug hole) and fill the combustion bowl with paraffin and leave it ......if the valves are well seated then all is good, if there not then you will see the paraffin leak through and into the ports.....a simple test which can save a future strip down!

I have done that in the past using petrol instead. What are the viscosity difference between parafin and petrol?
I thought parafin was a solid?  But I can tell you that petrol is lighter than water.
Ahh that common language dividing us again, Are you thinking of paraffin wax Theo?
Paraffin over here is the liquid I think you will know better as kerosene.
Title: Re: Project B......now started
Post by: CaptainZok on 05 December 2006, 13:42:47
LOL beat me to it Broocie.
Title: Re: Project B......now started
Post by: hotel21 on 05 December 2006, 13:43:52
 :y

..... but note the three different spellings!
Title: Re: Project B......now started
Post by: CaptainZok on 05 December 2006, 13:46:49
http://www.iespell.com
Great little ap when I remember to use it.
Title: Re: Project B......now started
Post by: theolodian on 05 December 2006, 13:49:57
Quote
http://www.iespell.com
Great little ap when I remember to use it.
I thought IE7 was s'posed to have spell check?  I'm not on it yet tho'.
Title: Re: Project B......now started
Post by: hotel21 on 05 December 2006, 13:50:41
You win....

Paraffin it is....   :P

 ;D
Title: Re: Project B......now started
Post by: CaptainZok on 05 December 2006, 13:53:46
Told ya, iespell to the rescue again.  ;D
Title: Re: Project B......now started
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 05 December 2006, 15:14:52
Quote
I have done that in the past using petrol instead. What are the viscosity difference between paraffin and petrol?


Seems to be a tough one to answer......the info I found suggested that Paraffin, Petrol and Diesel (crude based) are all similar as they have viscosity modifiers......to thin and they are difficult to inject and cause clogging, to thin and you get leaks.......

I use paraffin as its a little less volatile than Petrol.

Gasket kit has arrived apparently so the head re-builds can start tonight.
Title: Re: Project B......now started
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 06 December 2006, 09:19:23
Head re-builds went well....a few inlet valves short so they are being delivered tomorrow. Both are cleaned and pretty much ready to go.

Coolant pipe to thermostat mounting bracket broke when removed so another one ordered, should be here tomorrow.

Matchless popped around and managed to get the engine stripped to the cams.

So tonight its off with its heads.....and maybe re-seal the oil cooler plate.
Title: Re: Project B......now started
Post by: Markie on 06 December 2006, 09:23:20
Mark, on the oil cooler sealant - easy around the edges with it or "apply liberally?"

Good to see its all going well, so far  :y
Title: Re: Project B......now started
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 06 December 2006, 09:33:26
Its difficult not to apply liberally as its that dam stiff!

So yes, apply liberally, you need to fill the casting groove in the plate as a minimum plus some additional.
Title: Re: Project B......now started
Post by: omegaV6CD on 06 December 2006, 09:50:38
Quote
Head re-builds went well....a few inlet valves short so they are being delivered tomorrow. Both are cleaned and pretty much ready to go.

Coolant pipe to thermostat mounting bracket broke when removed so another one ordered, should be here tomorrow.

Matchless popped around and managed to get the engine stripped to the cams.

So tonight its off with its heads.....and maybe re-seal the oil cooler plate.

Mark,
in generall how do you find the valve guide condition on the high milleage v6 heads? Are they usually good or the valve is very loose? i'm really curious as i will be doing my heads at some point.
Title: Re: Project B......now started
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 06 December 2006, 11:02:53
Wear appears to be pretty much zero.....no sign of any wear (these were 138k mile heads), certainly no slop.

Valves also clean up easily and again show now major wear.

You can see some wear on the cams (very minimal) and a little on the follower bores (again minimal), piston bores are also spotless.

It seems that these engine do last very well with good servicing.....
Title: Re: Project B......now started
Post by: Allenm on 06 December 2006, 12:47:19
Mark,

Are the heads the original ones that were taken out when you put issunaz's ones in?

If so, be interested to know what the state of the valves were?

Cheers
Merv
Title: Re: Project B......now started
Post by: omegaV6CD on 06 December 2006, 13:27:26
Allenm,
i'm glad Mark got the car, but i would like to know why you have ignored my PM.
Thanks and regards
Kostas
Title: Re: Project B......now started
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 06 December 2006, 14:15:19
Quote
Mark,

Are the heads the original ones that were taken out when you put issunaz's ones in?

If so, be interested to know what the state of the valves were?

Cheers
Merv

6 bent inlet valves on 2-4-6 cylinders.

Leaking exhaust manifold gaskets (both banks)

Title: Re: Project B......now started
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 06 December 2006, 14:39:54
Do you still need that condensor mate, in light of your prang?
Title: Re: Project B......now started
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 06 December 2006, 14:40:56
Quote
Do you still need that condensor mate, in light of your prang?

I think that might now be surplus to requirements thanks.....
Title: Re: Project B......now started
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 06 December 2006, 15:09:57
I guessed as much

All the best with the rebuild, and keep us posted on your progress!
Title: Re: Project B......now started
Post by: Allenm on 06 December 2006, 20:00:42
Quote
Allenm,
i'm glad Mark got the car, but i would like to know why you have ignored my PM.
Thanks and regards
Kostas

Kostas,

Sorry, Didn't mean to ignore it, it was ages before I went back on to the messages due to work being really manic at the moment,  I was then waiting for a call back from Mark to see what he wanted to do and basically forgot!  

Apologies to anyone else I have inadvertantly ignored,  it was not personall or really intended.

Merv
Title: Re: Project B......now started
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 06 December 2006, 22:31:36
Ok, another good night.

Engine is fully stripped, oil cooler out (so it can be re-sealed), re-built alternator fitted, block surface fully cleaned, exhaust manifolds/DIS/T-vents etc stripped off the old heads (thanks Matchless).

Tomorrow before work the cooler plate and thermostat will be fitted so the sealent can go off.

Big problem though, the bridge pipe that connects to the thermostat housing is on back order.....and without this it wont be finished.....if anybody has one then please PM me.....

Re-build starts tomorrow night!
Title: Re: Project B......now started
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 06 December 2006, 22:46:59
I broke that bridge pipe on my old Elite Mark, and replacement was about £12 from the dealer if I remember right, and it came in next day. If you want, I can see if my dealer can get me one in, and post it up to you

Cheers
James
Title: Re: Project B......now started
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 07 December 2006, 09:24:27
I have already ordered one from the dealer (just over 6 quid plus vat to me) but, its on back order with Vaux.....my parts man is going to ring round today and see if any other dealers have them in stock!
Title: Re: Project B......now started
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 08 December 2006, 09:07:35
Ok, oil cooler pipes re-fitted, oil filter housing fitted, new oil filter fitted.

Both heads are fully re-built, two new valves received to complete the passenger side head, new manifold gaskets and manifolds, heat shields and air injection pipes fitted to heads ready for dropping onto the block

Drivers side head fitted and coolant pipe fitted.

That was all for last night, coolant pipe should be here today and cam cover gaskets here tomorrow.

So tonight will be:

Passenger side head fitting, cams in and cambelt, water pump etc fitted.

Then Saturday, cam covers on and inlet system.....and spark it up!
Title: Re: Project B......now started
Post by: Martin_1962 on 08 December 2006, 10:18:53
Don't forget crossed fingers!!

How come you can't use the facelift 2.5?
Title: Re: Project B......now started
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 08 December 2006, 10:57:24
Quote
Don't forget crossed fingers!!

How come you can't use the facelift 2.5?

I cant get it out of the wifes greasy mits......unless the tanks empty or it needs servicing...
Title: Re: Project B......now started
Post by: theolodian on 08 December 2006, 11:00:57
Quote
Quote
Don't forget crossed fingers!!

How come you can't use the facelift 2.5?

I cant get it out of the wifes greasy mits......unless the tanks empty or it needs servicing...
I'm safe from that at the mo'.  However, likely to change next year since she wants to get a UK driving permit.  ::)
Title: Re: Project B......now started
Post by: Martin_1962 on 08 December 2006, 12:48:27
Quote
Quote
Don't forget crossed fingers!!

How come you can't use the facelift 2.5?

I cant get it out of the wifes greasy mits......unless the tanks empty or it needs servicing...

Mine hasen't owned a car sice she sold hers before meeting me (that was a shock) now she is too worried with all the wallies and also having 3 pests in the back.

In 3 years she had had 4 cars 2 new, best was a 1.2 Nova, then met me with an ancient Sunbeam with uprated running gear and was difficult to start (I had to bump it in the winter or a quick boost charge)
Title: Re: Project B......now started
Post by: Martin_1962 on 08 December 2006, 12:49:24
She didn't want to drive the Sunbeam as it was a lot more powerful than anything else she had driven
Title: Re: Project B......now started
Post by: Martin_1962 on 08 December 2006, 12:50:38
Quote
Quote
Quote
Don't forget crossed fingers!!

How come you can't use the facelift 2.5?

I cant get it out of the wifes greasy mits......unless the tanks empty or it needs servicing...
I'm safe from that at the mo'.  However, likely to change next year since she wants to get a UK driving permit.  ::)

We considered keeping the 2.0CD for her and getting refresher lessons but insurance and road tax costs put a stop on
Title: Re: Project B......now started
Post by: hotel21 on 08 December 2006, 12:51:28
Quote
She didn't want to drive the Sunbeam as it was a lot more powerful than anything else she had driven

Sorry to hijack the thread, but was that what was called the Ti or Tii ?
Title: Re: Project B......now started
Post by: theolodian on 08 December 2006, 13:12:52
Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
Don't forget crossed fingers!!

How come you can't use the facelift 2.5?

I cant get it out of the wifes greasy mits......unless the tanks empty or it needs servicing...
I'm safe from that at the mo'.  However, likely to change next year since she wants to get a UK driving permit.  ::)

We considered keeping the 2.0CD for her and getting refresher lessons but insurance and road tax costs put a stop on
Yeah, it'll be interesting getting her insurance for the miggy.  Can two different companies insure two different drivers on the same car?
Title: Re: Project B......now started
Post by: Martin_1962 on 08 December 2006, 13:23:22
Quote
Quote
She didn't want to drive the Sunbeam as it was a lot more powerful than anything else she had driven

Sorry to hijack the thread, but was that what was called the Ti or Tii ?

Ti was the 2x40DCOE fitted car

Take a deep breath

930cc Imp fitted to LS
1298cc Avenger (5xbhp - 57 or 59) LS GL
1598cc Hi Torque (69bhp) GL
1598cc normal (80bhp) GLS
1598cc sports (100bhp) Ti (Avenger Tiger engine)
217?cc Lotus (155bhp+)

Mine was a right mishmash 1.0LS shell, Avenger Hitorque fitted with GLS timing chain and valve spring caps, Kent springs, cam, followers, early Avenger close ration box, Avenger twin Strombergs, K&N filters, GL rear window, 2" rally twin box exhaust, highest geared rear axle as available to Avenger/Sunbeam
Title: Re: Project B......now started
Post by: Auto Addict on 08 December 2006, 13:48:27
Quote
Quote
Don't forget crossed fingers!!

How come you can't use the facelift 2.5?

I cant get it out of the wifes greasy mits......unless the tanks empty or it needs servicing...

She keeps it nice and clean though....... ::)
Title: Re: Project B......now started
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 08 December 2006, 20:17:35
Disaster.....it would appear that I have a bad batch of heads bolts.....3 failed (sheared at the head)  >:(

So, heads have been removed and an email sent to the supplier.

On close inpsection the bolts are:

Rough Finish
Very deep torx stamping
Some have an undulating thread.

Not happy.....so its project stopped for a few days.....
Title: Re: Project B......now started
Post by: Admin on 08 December 2006, 20:33:41
If you need some more, let me know and I'll get them over to you in the morning...
Title: Re: Project B......now started
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 08 December 2006, 20:35:27
Not a problem thanks, doing nothing more on it until next week now........requested replacements from the supplier (had his stuff before and they were excellent last time......).

Might clean the engine bay whilst there is nothing in it!
Title: Re: Project B......now started
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 08 December 2006, 20:41:30
What an absolute pain in the arse :(
Title: Re: Project B......now started
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 08 December 2006, 20:44:28
Mark, if you had begun torquing the bolts down, but then had to remove them - won't you now need a new head gasket before you can refit again?
Title: Re: Project B......now started
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 08 December 2006, 21:26:32
Certainly will, also been requested.....
Title: Re: Project B......now started
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 11 December 2006, 12:05:22
For info, here is the mail I sent to the supplier

OK, as promised, here is some further info. Pic1:

(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b394/Marks_DTM_Calib/threebolts.jpg)

The top bolt in the pic is one of the un-broken items which has been removed.

Middle one is a spare which I bought from you recently with a 3.0V6 set (note, much better quality and finish), had no problems with any of these.

Bottom one is a broken one, interestingly note that its the head that has broken off, its worth noting that these bolts didn't yield like any other head bolt I have ever fitted (I have fitted one hell of a lot) where you can feel them give on the third 90deg angle torque cycle.

I measured the head size and torx stamping depth on the center bolt and top bolt. The figures are as follows:

Good Bolt, Head size-12.06mm, Torx depth-8.04mm
Bad Bolt, Head size-11.54mm, Torx depth-10.90mm

The interesting point is that on the bad bolt there is only 0.64mm of material at the base of the torx stamping!

Also, here is a close up of the bolt showing the undulation in the bolt thread

(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b394/Marks_DTM_Calib/Threads.jpg)


I have to say that the supplier has been excellent despite this problem.
Title: Re: Project B......now started
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 13 December 2006, 08:50:18
Bolts sent to the original supplier for analysis....

Still waiting for replacement bolts and gaskets.....so the saga goes on...
Title: Re: Project B......now started
Post by: Allenm on 13 December 2006, 09:09:40
Keep posting Mark!  Something about this car and long threads!  ;)
Title: Re: Project B......now started
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 15 December 2006, 09:55:42
Got today as holiday but, still no head gaskets and bolts.

The supplier has been very good though, hes sourced some bolts from an alternative supplier rather than sending me more of the same.

For info, heres a pic of the engien bay at the moment, and who said things on a V6 are difficult to get at, I even changed the oil filter from the engine bay!

(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b394/Marks_DTM_Calib/IMG_0718.jpg)
Title: Re: Project B......now started
Post by: Auto Addict on 15 December 2006, 09:59:53
Been doing a bit of cleaning as well haven't we.... ;)
Title: Re: Project B......now started
Post by: Matchless on 15 December 2006, 10:01:56
While you wait for the bits to arrive......

That starter motor could do with a respray and the inner wings dont look to have been shampoo'd and waxed for ages.

Title: Re: Project B......now started
Post by: Auto Addict on 15 December 2006, 10:06:56
Quote
While you wait for the bits to arrive......

That starter motor could do with a respray and the inner wings dont look to have been shampoo'd and waxed for ages.


...and whilst your about it put a bit of grease on the bonnet catch mechanism.
Title: Re: Project B......now started
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 15 December 2006, 10:11:52
Quote
...and whilst your about it put a bit of grease on the bonnet catch mechanism.

Only once the job is done, you have to sit on the slam panels to work on the bits at the back and the wife would go nuts if I got grease on the sofa!
Title: Re: Project B......now started
Post by: Andy B on 15 December 2006, 10:16:59
Quote
......
 you have to sit on the slam panels to work on the bits at the back  ....

 :-? How does that work? You're either sat with your back to the engine or you have your legs dangling inside the engine bay. I'm not quite sure how you would do either!  :-?  ;)
Title: Re: Project B......now started
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 15 December 2006, 10:27:21
You have your legs in the engine bay resting on the antiroll bar....coz with the inlet ducting removed theres a good 50cm space inbetween the radiator and the block.
Title: Re: Project B......now started
Post by: Andy B on 15 December 2006, 10:59:17
Quote
You have your legs in the engine bay resting on the antiroll bar....coz with the inlet ducting removed theres a good 50cm space inbetween the radiator and the block.
:-/ I've never tied it but I think I'll continue to satnd up & lean in.  ;)
Title: Re: Project B......now started
Post by: Martin_1962 on 15 December 2006, 11:23:14
I sit on the slam panel sidways and lean over
Title: Re: Project B......now started
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 15 December 2006, 14:04:45
Right, still no bolts......

So, cleaned the headlights up and fitted new local earths for them (this one does not have HID's unfortunately).

Changed the brake fluid....it was pretty dirty.

And basicly just titted about.... :P
Title: Re: Project B......now started
Post by: TheBoy on 15 December 2006, 14:42:49
Quote
Changed the brake fluid....it was pretty dirty.
Surely not, not after it has been carefully and regularly serviced by my favourite dealer  :-X
Title: Re: Project B......now started
Post by: Allenm on 15 December 2006, 20:51:56
Quote
Quote
Changed the brake fluid....it was pretty dirty.
Surely not, not after it has been carefully and regularly serviced by my favourite dealer  :-X

I paid for that to be changed last year!!  Wonder if it did?
Title: Re: Project B......now started
Post by: TheBoy on 15 December 2006, 20:54:32
Quote
Quote
Quote
Changed the brake fluid....it was pretty dirty.
Surely not, not after it has been carefully and regularly serviced by my favourite dealer  :-X

I paid for that to be changed last year!!  Wonder if it did?
I asked that same dealer to do mine last year (I did a stunt on motorbike, so couldn't work on car for a while).  Tunnie and I did it a few months back, and no way was that fluid less than a year old.  They are scumbags  >:(
Title: Re: Project B......now started
Post by: Markie on 15 December 2006, 21:18:30
yep...ive done this - sat in worse places :y
Title: Re: Project B......now started
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 19 December 2006, 09:38:37
Quote
Quote
Quote
Changed the brake fluid....it was pretty dirty.
Surely not, not after it has been carefully and regularly serviced by my favourite dealer  :-X

I paid for that to be changed last year!!  Wonder if it did?


I guess they didn't judging by the colour of it!

Ow yes.....STILL no bolts  >:(
Title: Re: Project B......now started
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 21 December 2006, 09:05:38
Right....progress.....

Replacement bolts arrived yesterday morning along with new head gaskets.

Started about 7.30pm and Matchless came to lend a hand...........

We fittted the heads (bolts still felt a bit iffy but, didn't break)

Coolant pipe, heater bypass, coolant bridge, thermostat, stat bridge pipe (new) + B-stard bolt.

Cams fitted, cam sprockets fitted and cam covers fittted.

So, tonight.....

Plug leads to clean and fit
cam belt to fit, tension and time
Aux belt and tensioner to fit
Plenum and vac pipes to drop on
Front pipes to connect up
Oil to drain
Inlet ducts to fit including air cleaner


Then pop some new coolant and oil in, fit the battery and away we go!
Title: Re: Project B......now started
Post by: Allenm on 21 December 2006, 09:47:31
Sounding good Mark!  hope it all goes without anymore problems!
Title: Re: Project B......now started
Post by: Admin on 21 December 2006, 10:19:18
Quote
Sounding good Mark!  hope it all goes without anymore problems!

Based on what has happened so far.... I doubt it!  ;)
Title: Re: Project B......now started
Post by: Matchless on 21 December 2006, 10:41:48
Quote
Quote
Sounding good Mark!  hope it all goes without anymore problems!

Based on what has happened so far.... I doubt it!  ;)

This engine does seem to have some sort of curse on it.

The first set of pattern bolts snapped off at the head due to a manufacturing fault. (crap quality)
The new set looked better quality but the heads were sticking to the washers as we tightened them, you start to pull on the bar and nothing happens then !!!!CRACK!!!! and the bolt moves 15 deg or so. Very, very un-nerving. This is despite using grease under bolt head and washer. I suspect it has something to do with the surface finish and the hardening process. By comparaison a FAI made bolt (original supplier) just winds in lovely and smoothly with no drama.
We found by experiment that if we removed a bolt that was sticking then re-cleaned it and re-greased it then it would go in smoothly. You could see where the bolt head had stuck to the washer and torn metal away.
Title: Re: Project B......now started
Post by: omegaV6CD on 21 December 2006, 11:17:42
Guys,
just out of interest what brand parts are you using? bolts, gaskets, etc.
Title: Re: Project B......now started
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 21 December 2006, 11:41:53
The head gaskets are Elring (who make them for GM).....the bolts are of un-known origin...not a mistake I will make again!

Note....Genuine cam cover gaskets....still yet to find non-gen that are any good.
Title: Re: Project B......now started
Post by: omegaV6CD on 21 December 2006, 12:57:00
Quote
The head gaskets are Elring (who make them for GM).....the bolts are of un-known origin...not a mistake I will make again!

Note....Genuine cam cover gaskets....still yet to find non-gen that are any good.

Does the Elring set not include the Rocker cover gaskets? I think the OEM bolts are Febi bilstein. I remember talking to autovaux and they said that it was something like 100pounds for the gaskets including the bolts.
Title: Re: Project B......now started - and running!
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 22 December 2006, 08:45:02
The set did cam cover gaskets but, they were pretty poor.....it appears that genuine realy are the only reliable solution.

Any way............it lives!

Drove it to work this morning and all is good, had a problem at first where the coolant pipe that attaches to the rear of the block had a small waterfall from it due to a trapped seal ring but, fixed that.

Car was running at 11.00pm last night with no fault codes for the first time in a while.

Further jobs to do:

Fit some front wishbone bushes and set the camber and track (its pulling and the tyres are wearing on the edge).

Drop the exhaust and re-fit it, its not been well fitted (confirmed by what a swine it was to re-attach to the manifolds!)  and there is a slight blow from the drivers side centre piep to cat joint (requires the bodge bolts removing and new items fitting).

Change a few climate bulbs.

Good wash, vac and polish plus touch-up a bit of the paint work.

Get the phone working.....
Title: Re: Project B......now started
Post by: Jimbob on 22 December 2006, 08:51:35
Congratulations and well done!  :y
Title: Re: Project B......now started - and running!
Post by: omegaV6CD on 22 December 2006, 09:16:45
Quote
The set did cam cover gaskets but, they were pretty poor.....it appears that genuine realy are the only reliable solution.

Any way............it lives!

Drove it to work this morning and all is good, had a problem at first where the coolant pipe that attaches to the rear of the block had a small waterfall from it due to a trapped seal ring but, fixed that.

Car was running at 11.00pm last night with no fault codes for the first time in a while.

Further jobs to do:

Fit some front wishbone bushes and set the camber and track (its pulling and the tyres are wearing on the edge).

Drop the exhaust and re-fit it, its not been well fitted (confirmed by what a swine it was to re-attach to the manifolds!)  and there is a slight blow from the drivers side centre piep to cat joint (requires the bodge bolts removing and new items fitting).

Change a few climate bulbs.

Good wash, vac and polish plus touch-up a bit of the paint work.

Get the phone working.....

Well done Mark, the coor sounds pretty much neglected, but we all know what happens when a car is under your ownership ;)
Title: Re: Project B......now started - and running!
Post by: Allenm on 22 December 2006, 09:35:57
Quote
The set did cam cover gaskets but, they were pretty poor.....it appears that genuine realy are the only reliable solution.

Any way............it lives!

Drove it to work this morning and all is good, had a problem at first where the coolant pipe that attaches to the rear of the block had a small waterfall from it due to a trapped seal ring but, fixed that.

Car was running at 11.00pm last night with no fault codes for the first time in a while.

Further jobs to do:

Fit some front wishbone bushes and set the camber and track (its pulling and the tyres are wearing on the edge).

Drop the exhaust and re-fit it, its not been well fitted (confirmed by what a swine it was to re-attach to the manifolds!)  and there is a slight blow from the drivers side centre piep to cat joint (requires the bodge bolts removing and new items fitting).

Change a few climate bulbs.

Good wash, vac and polish plus touch-up a bit of the paint work.

Get the phone working.....

Mark,

The phone works,  you just need to put a sim in it.  The is a sim card holder in the glove box.  But I never used it as the quality of the thing is rubbish!
Title: Re: Project B......now started - and running!
Post by: Allenm on 22 December 2006, 09:37:53
Quote
Quote
The set did cam cover gaskets but, they were pretty poor.....it appears that genuine realy are the only reliable solution.

Any way............it lives!

Drove it to work this morning and all is good, had a problem at first where the coolant pipe that attaches to the rear of the block had a small waterfall from it due to a trapped seal ring but, fixed that.

Car was running at 11.00pm last night with no fault codes for the first time in a while.

Further jobs to do:

Fit some front wishbone bushes and set the camber and track (its pulling and the tyres are wearing on the edge).

Drop the exhaust and re-fit it, its not been well fitted (confirmed by what a swine it was to re-attach to the manifolds!)  and there is a slight blow from the drivers side centre piep to cat joint (requires the bodge bolts removing and new items fitting).

Change a few climate bulbs.

Good wash, vac and polish plus touch-up a bit of the paint work.

Get the phone working.....

Well done Mark, the coor sounds pretty much neglected, but we all know what happens when a car is under your ownership ;)

NO! The car has definately NOT been neglected!  Just reliant on professional tradesman to do the work on it!  Don't confuse lack of ability to work on it myself with lack of care or neglect!
Title: Re: Project B......now started
Post by: Admin on 22 December 2006, 09:47:24
Merv, I know what Kostas meant, and he was not having a dig at your ownership. He was in agreement with you, that the neglect was that of the "professionals"
who were paid to do a job clearly beyond their "skills".

Title: Re: Project B......now started
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 22 December 2006, 09:47:30
Its not been neglected, the new tyres etc show this and the general condition given the mileage are good.


You have PM by the way.

Title: Re: Project B......now started - and running!
Post by: omegaV6CD on 22 December 2006, 10:19:30
Quote
Quote
Quote
The set did cam cover gaskets but, they were pretty poor.....it appears that genuine realy are the only reliable solution.

Any way............it lives!

Drove it to work this morning and all is good, had a problem at first where the coolant pipe that attaches to the rear of the block had a small waterfall from it due to a trapped seal ring but, fixed that.

Car was running at 11.00pm last night with no fault codes for the first time in a while.

Further jobs to do:

Fit some front wishbone bushes and set the camber and track (its pulling and the tyres are wearing on the edge).

Drop the exhaust and re-fit it, its not been well fitted (confirmed by what a swine it was to re-attach to the manifolds!)  and there is a slight blow from the drivers side centre piep to cat joint (requires the bodge bolts removing and new items fitting).

Change a few climate bulbs.

Good wash, vac and polish plus touch-up a bit of the paint work.

Get the phone working.....

Well done Mark, the coor sounds pretty much neglected, but we all know what happens when a car is under your ownership ;)

NO! The car has definately NOT been neglected!  Just reliant on professional tradesman to do the work on it!  Don't confuse lack of ability to work on it myself with lack of care or neglect!

Sorry you misunderstood mate, i know that the car has been professionally maintained, it is them that i blame not you. It is disgusting people paying money to get work done and then not get what they expect.
Title: Re: Project B......now started - and running!
Post by: bob.dent on 22 December 2006, 10:20:43
Quote
The set did cam cover gaskets but, they were pretty poor.....it appears that genuine realy are the only reliable solution.

Any way............it lives!

Drove it to work this morning and all is good, had a problem at first where the coolant pipe that attaches to the rear of the block had a small waterfall from it due to a trapped seal ring but, fixed that.

Car was running at 11.00pm last night with no fault codes for the first time in a while.

Further jobs to do:

Fit some front wishbone bushes and set the camber and track (its pulling and the tyres are wearing on the edge).

Drop the exhaust and re-fit it, its not been well fitted (confirmed by what a swine it was to re-attach to the manifolds!)  and there is a slight blow from the drivers side centre piep to cat joint (requires the bodge bolts removing and new items fitting).

Change a few climate bulbs.

Good wash, vac and polish plus touch-up a bit of the paint work.

Get the phone working.....

Well done Mark, great job done :y

Damn......I wish I had your ability and knowledge of cars - so many things I could do to improve mine!!  :-[
Title: Re: Project B......now started
Post by: omegaV6CD on 22 December 2006, 10:22:59
Quote
Merv, I know what Kostas meant, and he was not having a dig at your ownership. He was in agreement with you, that the neglect was that of the "professionals"
who were paid to do a job clearly beyond their "skills".

 

Few months ago i met the husband of one of my wife's collegues. Guess what he was a vauxhall mechanic for 6 years. He was really impressed to know that i do all the work myself on my car. He also said that the first v6 they had in for cambelt they kept it in 2 days. Does that fill you with confidence???
Title: Re: Project B......now started
Post by: Jimbob on 22 December 2006, 10:23:23
Maybe Mark should give up owning cars, we could each lend him ours in turn for a week or 2 a time, in return he could give em a good check up and sort any problems out.
Everyone's happy  :y
Title: Re: Project B......now started - and running!
Post by: TheBoy on 22 December 2006, 10:30:20
Quote
NO! The car has definately NOT been neglected!  Just reliant on professional tradesman to do the work on it!  Don't confuse lack of ability to work on it myself with lack of care or neglect!
Been 'maintained' by my favourite, scumbag, lying dealer, who I will not mention for fear of getting banned by LB66  :P
Title: Re: Project B......now started
Post by: TheBoy on 22 December 2006, 10:32:31
Glad to hear its a runner again - I think for its age, its quite tidy. And its a manual, if you like that sort of thing ;)

Mark - I'm sure there's some Tech2 work you need doing on it. Strangely enough, I may need your help with something on my MV6 ;)
Title: Re: Project B......now started - and running!
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 22 December 2006, 10:34:01
Quote

Well done Mark, great job done :y

Damn......I wish I had your ability and knowledge of cars - so many things I could do to improve mine!!  :-[

If your keeping yours then we had better get you booked in come the new year......now I have finaly got the following out of the way:

Working car to replace the one I foolishly killed
Death of father in law
Birth of daughter
Xmas

etc
Title: Re: Project B......now started
Post by: Allenm on 22 December 2006, 10:39:00
Thanks for the comments, and sorry for being a bit touchy!  Its just I have spent a not too small fortune on the car in a certain effing garage and was a bit quick to rise!

The omega was (is) a lovely car and I am bitterly disappointed not to still be driving it,  I now own another marque and although it is one I have always aspired to, it is not the same driving please as the meega!

Cheers
Merv
Title: Re: Project B......now started
Post by: TheBoy on 22 December 2006, 10:42:48
Quote
The omega was (is) a lovely car and I am bitterly disappointed not to still be driving it,  I now own another marque and although it is one I have always aspired to, it is not the same driving please as the meega!
Your new car looked nice enough, good condition etc. I've been in a few of those, and I do like them, though not sure I would want one myself...

...and at least the dealer is likely to be better ;)
Title: Re: Project B......now started
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 22 December 2006, 10:52:25
Quote
Your new car looked nice enough, good condition etc. I've been in a few of those, and I do like them, though not sure I would want one myself...

...and at least the dealer is likely to be better ;)

I doubt it, these mechnics tend to come from the same box......you only get any general improvement when you get a reasonable service manager
Title: Re: Project B......now started
Post by: TheBoy on 22 December 2006, 10:57:29
Quote
Mark - I'm sure there's some Tech2 work you need doing on it. Strangely enough, I may need your help with something on my MV6 ;)
To give you a clue what I'm gonna probably need a hand with...  ...you will need a bloody big torque wrench, and will need weetabix for breakie....
Title: Re: Project B......now started - and running!
Post by: Martin_1962 on 22 December 2006, 17:33:17
Quote
Quote
NO! The car has definately NOT been neglected!  Just reliant on professional tradesman to do the work on it!  Don't confuse lack of ability to work on it myself with lack of care or neglect!
Been 'maintained' by my favourite, scumbag, lying dealer, who I will not mention for fear of getting banned by LB66  :P

Try and ban Jaime - he'll just unistall the site :o
Title: Re: Project B......now started
Post by: hotel21 on 22 December 2006, 18:26:39
Quote
Quote
Mark - I'm sure there's some Tech2 work you need doing on it. Strangely enough, I may need your help with something on my MV6 ;)
To give you a clue what I'm gonna probably need a hand with...  ...you will need a bloody big torque wrench, and will need weetabix for breakie....

new Friday game.....

Front wheel bearing????     ;D
Title: Re: Project B......now started
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 24 December 2006, 17:08:29
As long as its not a rear one (which never seem to fail).....

Need a transponder programming to Project B so I can get two keys for it....

Its been running for a few days now and no major problems...think the battery is pretty goosed though.
Title: Re: Project B......now started
Post by: Admin on 24 December 2006, 18:01:21
Quote
As long as its not a rear one (which never seem to fail)......

Ahem.....

They do...

And for once I will be passing the car to a garage (known independant!) to do the job!  :-[
Title: Re: Project B......now started
Post by: TheBoy on 24 December 2006, 19:31:16
Quote
As long as its not a rear one (which never seem to fail).....

Need a transponder programming to Project B so I can get two keys for it....

Its been running for a few days now and no major problems...think the battery is pretty goosed though.
No, I think its front (slight rumble on right hand bends, plus a little play (tiny).  Worth changing in pairs?

Transponder, thats no prob, but you will need carpass for PIN.
Title: Re: Project B......now started
Post by: Allenm on 24 December 2006, 21:07:49
Quote
Quote
As long as its not a rear one (which never seem to fail).....

Need a transponder programming to Project B so I can get two keys for it....

Its been running for a few days now and no major problems...think the battery is pretty goosed though.
No, I think its front (slight rumble on right hand bends, plus a little play (tiny).  Worth changing in pairs?

Transponder, thats no prob, but you will need carpass for PIN.

Car pass is in the Manual folder if you havn't spotted it yet!