Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: tunnie on 07 January 2007, 23:45:41
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As above really, got the chance of getting a Senator now.
Senator would be a '92 K 3.0 24v
Omega would be around the 1997-8 time, due to the limit of my budget.
Dave & Mark seam to run one fairly problem free around Europe, although i did hear something about the steam in the alps and hack saw the aircon bits off or something? :-?
The Senators are getting on now, and for my 6k mile trip in the heat of summer would a Senator be any less reliable?
Plus points for the Senator:
* Cheaper Insurance (classic)
* One thats going, only bubbles on rear arch & heater matrix already replaced.
* Cheaper to buy
* Cheaper to fix up ?? - No cambelt
* Its a straight 6
* Its a senny!
Plus points for the Omega:
* Its newer
* I know them very well now
* Maybe more toys (HID's) ect if i get mini facelift
BUT would an Omega be more reliable? - Everything i hear about Sennys is the electrics are iffy but mechanically sound (apart from arches, heater matrix, air-con ::)) :-/
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Took a 12 valve Carlton around Europe for 3000 miles in summer of 2004 over 3 weeks. Was a 1988 (F) plate vintage with 140k miles. Took absolutely all in its stride and gave 28 miles per gallon plus, with a full load, roof box and a keen right foot, despite being 16 years old.
No reason why a well prepped 24 valve senny of similar age range should be any different.
B
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Took a 12 valve Carlton around Europe for 3000 miles in summer of 2004 over 3 weeks. Was a 1988 (F) plate vintage with 140k miles. Took absolutely all in its stride and gave 28 miles per gallon plus, with a full load, roof box and a keen right foot, despite being 16 years old.
No reason why a well prepped 24 valve senny of similar age range should be any different.
B
Sounds like a trip that one mate :)
These timing chains, i heard there was a 'bad' batch, do you know any more on them or the age this affected them?
A better question for this thread should have been, Senator 3.0 24v S6 Vs Omega 3.0 24v V6
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Re the chains. Know there was an issue but its like the 'head gasket' problem the 'Meegas (allegedly) have. Everyone knows someone who had a problem but reality is, if you play percentages, most will have either expired spectacularly and are now spanish dishwasher material or been fixed on recall and ready for a road trip......
In my limited experience, its storm in a teacup territory.
B
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Re the chains. Know there was an issue but its like the 'head gasket' problem the 'Meegas (allegedly) have. Everyone knows someone who had a problem but reality is, if you play percentages, most will have either expired spectacularly and are now spanish dishwasher material or been fixed on recall and ready for a road trip......
In my limited experience, its storm in a teacup territory.
B
Good to know, and good point they would have blown up by now if they were a poor chain. I believe its 100k for a chain? So most now must be on their second one.
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Tunnie, check out my (disjointed) "Anyone fancy a used Jag?" thread. There's an ex-MoD Senator up for a bid. I reckon it's probably better maintained than a private car. The £350 is only a guide based on previous sales - I reckon you might get it for less.. :y
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Tunnie, check out my (disjointed) "Anyone fancy a used Jag?" thread. There's an ex-MoD Senator up for a bid. I reckon it's probably better maintained than a private car. The £350 is only a guide based on previous sales - I reckon you might get it for less.. :y
Just took a look ...
That looks a 'well used' senny! My main concern is it will be a manual... i'd like an Auto. Also i don't think you get a MOT's? Does not seam to mention it. Also ex MoD? Never seen an auction by them before, and from what I see on the news about the housing they supply to UK troops is anything to go by... IMO it won't have been well maintained!
The one i might be able to get is an auto and 12 months MOT... i also know the heater matrix has been replaced, and its going for less money than that auction. Sorry to be fussy but if I get a Senator i want it to be the all singing all dancing version ;)
Cheers for the link though :y
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There does seem to be a lot of talk of chains and chain guides in some of the mags. If you do have to do them, it sounds expensive for parts and a time consuming job. I have zero experience in such things, so no idea if any of this is actually true, or just a rare occurance.
As to reliability, any well prep'd car should be reliable enough (obviously any car can break down)...
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I await Big Rods comments on here... :)
Chains wear relative to how regularly the oil is changed.
If it rattles, walk away, otherwise it should be good.
Being a simpler design, there is less to go wrong.
Remember though, you won't have air con.
Change the viscous fan for an electric job, maybe remove air con radiator and wire in the air con fans for serious cooling! ;)
Try it out mate. Buy it (assuming it is worth it) and run it for a while. If you don't like it you will be able to sell it easily enough.
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Remember though, you won't have air con.
Is it unreliable then?
I don't fancy I'd fancy that trip without decen't A/C
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Remember though, you won't have air con.
Is it unreliable then?
I don't fancy I'd fancy that trip without decen't A/C
I think it uses the 'old' gas which is no longer allowed, and its generally not a good design...
Personally i think air-con has taken some fun out of driving, don't get me wrong its great in traffic. But some how driving though the French country lanes, and driving in Switzerland you got to have the window open and one hand hanging down ;) :D ;D
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Just remember that we did a lot of prep work on our Senator to get it through the rally.
Engines are probably about as tough as the V6 power plant with regular servicing....both have weaknesses, V6 is crank sensor, stright six is the dizzy etc.
Its the gadgets on the senny that are not reliable....
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I am not worried about the gadgets, those i can live without. Key thing is want the possibility of it breaking down, as low as possible.
V6 crank sensors i know about them, but sorry to ask a stupid question but the straight six its the 'dizzy' ?? :-/
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'Dizzy' would be distributor, as used in 'ye olde' days... :y
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'Dizzy' would be distributor, as used in 'ye olde' days... :y
Ah ok, remember i am a young student :D ;D
So what goes with them, they get clogged or just fail?
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To be honest, you pay your money you take your choice.
If a car is realy cheap theres prob a reason for it.
But equally an expensive car could turn out to be an old st1tter.
If you know more about repairing an Omega then buy one of those incaes it does go tits up
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Bearings and hall sensors fail......dizzy cap and rotor are a service item realy.
You might say.....gadgets I can do without but......fan speed is quite a key gadget....and a common failure!
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Bearings and hall sensors fail......dizzy cap and rotor are a service item realy.
You might say.....gadgets I can do without but......fan speed is quite a key gadget....and a common failure!
I am sure a replacement fan switch can be set up easily enough.... :)
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But, Tunnie will overtighten the toggle switch bolt........
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Just got home with mine. Probably won't be driving the Omega for as while now.
I LOVE THE SENNY
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I await Big Rods comments on here... :)
OK here goes...............
A 12v C30NE Senator is pretty much indestructable as opposed to the 24v C30SE but at the sacrifice of 30 odd BHP.
I'm inclined to agree that the chains debate is a bit of a storm in a teacup. However this was an issue that Vx recognised and recalled a lot of them to have the chains replaced. These should have a 'blue spot' somewhere around the Dual Ram servo on the induction piping. But can you be guaranteed that it's been done and not just some greedy dealer 'dotting' it and claiming the warranty work? Upgraded, (F1 spec), chains and replacement guides are available through the Autobahnstormers.
One thing I do know goes the way of the pear is the CHG at some point after 100k miles. The gasket between the oil channels and the outside world leaks down the off side of the engine block. It's sometimes misdiagnosed as a sump leak. It's best to get it fixed there and then before the coolant and oil start mixing. If they do, you can say goodbye to your bottom end after about 2k miles.
Once you procure your Senator, if you want to keep it, the parts alone to do the CHG and chains properly will set you back about £700. If you can do the job yourself, (I did once and it is by no means impossible!!). Fit an ABS chip, remove the cat's, skim the head/block, fit a widened throttle body , do a bit of porting and match the induction ports while the head's off and fit a K&N filter then you should realise about 240 (conservative estimate!) BHP.
There are other issues like the one's with the dizzy that Mark pointed out and the oil cooler thermostat have a regular habit of failing, but is never noticed until the car is thrashed.
Finding one with working aircon is difficult but not ultimately impossible.
If you're looking for reliability, find a very late 3.0 12v model they have better fueling systems and have bigger valve heads to compensate for cats. If you want power, get a 24v, but they need looking after.
All ecu upgrades and many parts are available through the Autobahnstormers.
And if you need any spares, I've got loads!!
And if you want to know anything else, let me know, I'm happy to help.
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Fantastic, thanks. Just seen photos of Gwilym's new purchase, they do look nice and very comfy.
I think i am going to go for power, its going to be a full car with a lot of stuff in there, so might need those extra horses!
I keep going back to look at the photos, looks damn nice. My friends say i have a strange taste in cars, but I don't care he drives a pug 306!!
Looks like there are some real experts out there, however one bonus of the Senator was cheap insurance (classic) however after ringing up a few places, seams to be not the case. They refuse to insure under 25's with anything bigger than 2.0's generally :'(
Both Footman James and several others will not allow me, even as a named driver on a 3.0 Senator :'(
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Fantastic, thanks. Just seen photos of Gwilym's new purchase, they do look nice and very comfy.
I think i am going to go for power, its going to be a full car with a lot of stuff in there, so might need those extra horses!
I keep going back to look at the photos, looks damn nice. My friends say i have a strange taste in cars, but I don't care he drives a pug 306!!
Looks like there are some real experts out there, however one bonus of the Senator was cheap insurance (classic) however after ringing up a few places, seams to be not the case. They refuse to insure under 25's with anything bigger than 2.0's generally :'(
Both Footman James and several others will not allow me, even as a named driver on a 3.0 Senator :'(
I might be a bit older than you (not that old though). Classic Car insurance around £130 for me
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But, Tunnie will overtighten the toggle switch bolt........
:-[ :-[
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Fantastic, thanks. Just seen photos of Gwilym's new purchase, they do look nice and very comfy.
I think i am going to go for power, its going to be a full car with a lot of stuff in there, so might need those extra horses!
I keep going back to look at the photos, looks damn nice. My friends say i have a strange taste in cars, but I don't care he drives a pug 306!!
Looks like there are some real experts out there, however one bonus of the Senator was cheap insurance (classic) however after ringing up a few places, seams to be not the case. They refuse to insure under 25's with anything bigger than 2.0's generally :'(
Both Footman James and several others will not allow me, even as a named driver on a 3.0 Senator :'(
I might be a bit older than you (not that old though). Classic Car insurance around £130 for me
Thing is are you over 25? If so no problem for you lot, it seams getting a big engined car under my own classic policy is unlikley
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I think i am going to go for power, its going to be a full car with a lot of stuff in there, so might need those extra horses!
Mate if this is for your trip, I'd go for the 12v every time. They run about 170 BHP. I had an early 12v Carlton GSI manual and that wasn't shy I tell thee!!
I found our 2.0 16v Omega perfectly adequate for three big blokes and all their gubbins and my guess is that that wasn't putting out as much as it maybe should've.
My advice is stick with a 12v for the trip, give it a couple of oil changes and it won't break!!
And if you can get a manual then more's the better!
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I think i am going to go for power, its going to be a full car with a lot of stuff in there, so might need those extra horses!
Mate if this is for your trip, I'd go for the 12v every time. They run about 170 BHP. I had an early 12v Carlton GSI manual and that wasn't shy I tell thee!!
I found our 2.0 16v Omega perfectly adequate for three big blokes and all their gubbins and my guess is that that wasn't putting out as much as it maybe should've.
My advice is stick with a 12v for the trip, give it a couple of oil changes and it won't break!!
And if you can get a manual then more's the better!
I just had a look around the 12v ones don't seam to be as common as the 24v, there is one going in Swindon i know of but thats the 24v version.
Tbh i'd prefer an Auto for driving though Europe..
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Tbh i'd prefer an Auto for driving though Europe..
Sorry, I was assuming you were after as much grunt at the wheels as poss'.
Auto's are ten a penny.
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They refuse to insure under 25's with anything bigger than 2.0's generally :'(
Both Footman James and several others will not allow me, even as a named driver on a 3.0 Senator :'(
That seems odd mate. I've only just turned 23 and I insure my 3.0 Omega Elite for £400!
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They refuse to insure under 25's with anything bigger than 2.0's generally :'(
Both Footman James and several others will not allow me, even as a named driver on a 3.0 Senator :'(
That seems odd mate. I've only just turned 23 and I insure my 3.0 Omega Elite for £400!
Who are you with, is it as a classic policy?
With direct line i can get a 3.0 Senator insured for around £360 fully comp