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Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: nick v6 on 12 January 2009, 21:05:22

Title: traffic cops teaser gun
Post by: nick v6 on 12 January 2009, 21:05:22
im watching traffic cops and they just used a teaser gun on someone

if 240 volts from you house hold plug socket can kill you

how the hell do there survive 50'000 volts from a teaser gun

is it sumat to do with the ampage
Title: Re: traffic cops teaser gun
Post by: TheBoy on 12 January 2009, 21:06:06
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im watching traffic cops and they just used a teaser gun on someone

if 240 volts from you house hold plug socket can kill you

how the hell do there survive 50'000 volts from a teaser gun

is it sumat to do with the ampage
voltage doesn't kill, current does...
Title: Re: traffic cops teaser gun
Post by: dbug on 12 January 2009, 21:07:09
As TB said its amperage that zaps you.
Title: Re: traffic cops teaser gun
Post by: HerefordElite on 12 January 2009, 21:07:16
never mind that, who the opps has decide that you can use a 'premtive' strike with 50000volts?

what ever happened to innocent till proven guilty?

load of bollards

i'm fuming >:(
Title: Re: traffic cops teaser gun
Post by: Welung666 on 12 January 2009, 21:07:34
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im watching traffic cops and they just used a teaser gun on someone

if 240 volts from you house hold plug socket can kill you

how the hell do there survive 50'000 volts from a teaser gun

is it sumat to do with the ampage

Sounds a bit kinky to me ;D ;D Different kind of voltage and lower ampage.
Title: Re: traffic cops teaser gun
Post by: nick v6 on 12 January 2009, 21:10:32
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Quote
im watching traffic cops and they just used a teaser gun on someone

if 240 volts from you house hold plug socket can kill you

how the hell do there survive 50'000 volts from a teaser gun

is it sumat to do with the ampage

Sounds a bit kinky to me ;D ;D Different kind of voltage and lower ampage.

your thinking of 12volts in a vibrating toy
dirty git
 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: traffic cops teaser gun
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 12 January 2009, 21:13:40
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never mind that, who the opps has decide that you can use a 'premtive' strike with 50000volts?

what ever happened to innocent till proven guilty?

load of bollards

i'm fuming >:(

If the ossifers had honest held belief that their safety was under threat, they are justified in using reasonable force....

Appreaciate that's a bit of a blanket statement, but I don't know the circs of the Original post...

Title: Re: traffic cops teaser gun
Post by: Welung666 on 12 January 2009, 21:13:41
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Quote
Quote
im watching traffic cops and they just used a teaser gun on someone

if 240 volts from you house hold plug socket can kill you

how the hell do there survive 50'000 volts from a teaser gun

is it sumat to do with the ampage

Sounds a bit kinky to me ;D ;D Different kind of voltage and lower ampage.

your thinking of 12volts in a vibrating toy
dirty git
 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

 :-[ :-[ My mind was elsewhere ;D ;D
Title: Re: traffic cops teaser gun
Post by: Debs. on 12 January 2009, 21:17:13
 ;) 50 Kv. = no 'resistance' ;D
Title: Re: traffic cops teaser gun
Post by: nick v6 on 12 January 2009, 21:18:56
i bet there is some muppet selling those gun's on flebay
Title: Re: traffic cops teaser gun
Post by: HerefordElite on 12 January 2009, 21:23:47
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never mind that, who the opps has decide that you can use a 'premtive' strike with 50000volts?

what ever happened to innocent till proven guilty?

load of bollards

i'm fuming >:(

If the ossifers had honest held belief that their safety was under threat, they are justified in using reasonable force....

Appreaciate that's a bit of a blanket statement, but I don't know the circs of the Original post...



the guy was "suspected" i repeat "suspected" of an armed robbery weeks before and at the time was just walking down the street blatantly not carrying a gun.

I appreciate the severity of armed robbery but the officers were given the go ahead for a "pre-emtive" tazzer which means they just shouted tazzer and shot him!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

this is wrong, i don't care how dangerous they think this guy is you can't just go shooting first and asking questions later >:(
Title: Re: traffic cops teaser gun
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 12 January 2009, 21:27:01
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Quote
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never mind that, who the opps has decide that you can use a 'premtive' strike with 50000volts?

what ever happened to innocent till proven guilty?

load of bollards

i'm fuming >:(

If the ossifers had honest held belief that their safety was under threat, they are justified in using reasonable force....

Appreaciate that's a bit of a blanket statement, but I don't know the circs of the Original post...



the guy was "suspected" i repeat "suspected" of an armed robbery weeks before and at the time was just walking down the street blatantly not carrying a gun.

I appreciate the severity of armed robbery but the officers were given the go ahead for a "pre-emtive" tazzer which means they just shouted tazzer and shot him!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

this is wrong, i don't care how dangerous they think this guy is you can't just go shooting first and asking questions later >:(

As said - we can't really comment or discuss without full facts.

If it does turn out to be unjustified - those responsible will be dealt with, I'm sure...  :y
Title: Re: traffic cops teaser gun
Post by: Danny on 12 January 2009, 21:29:33
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i bet there is some muppet selling those gun's on flebay

simon_omega might have stock of them ;D
Title: Re: traffic cops teaser gun
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 12 January 2009, 21:29:55
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i bet there is some muppet selling those gun's on flebay

simon_omega might have stock of them ;D

;D
Title: Re: traffic cops teaser gun
Post by: HerefordElite on 12 January 2009, 21:36:11
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never mind that, who the opps has decide that you can use a 'premtive' strike with 50000volts?

what ever happened to innocent till proven guilty?

load of bollards

i'm fuming >:(

If the ossifers had honest held belief that their safety was under threat, they are justified in using reasonable force....

Appreaciate that's a bit of a blanket statement, but I don't know the circs of the Original post...



the guy was "suspected" i repeat "suspected" of an armed robbery weeks before and at the time was just walking down the street blatantly not carrying a gun.

I appreciate the severity of armed robbery but the officers were given the go ahead for a "pre-emtive" tazzer which means they just shouted tazzer and shot him!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

this is wrong, i don't care how dangerous they think this guy is you can't just go shooting first and asking questions later >:(

As said - we can't really comment or discuss without full facts.

If it does turn out to be unjustified - those responsible will be dealt with, I'm sure...  :y


yes we can discuss it no legalities involved here just a healthy discusssion ;)

it's not the individual case it's the PRINCIPAL that you can pre-emtive Tazzer someone.

bit like me saying i thought he was going to hit me so i punched him back first :D
Title: Re: traffic cops teaser gun
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 12 January 2009, 21:39:49
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bit like me saying i thought he was going to hit me so i punched him back first :D

If you had a genuine belief that he was going to hit you, then your action of striking them first would be considered reasonable force  ::)

I agree that, (purely, on the facts given here) it would be very extreme to "pre-emptively" tazer someone, but again, I don't know the in's and out's, so it's not for me to say whether it was right or wrong...
Title: Re: traffic cops teaser gun
Post by: HerefordElite on 12 January 2009, 21:44:01
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bit like me saying i thought he was going to hit me so i punched him back first :D

If you had a genuine belief that he was going to hit you, then your action of striking them first would be considered reasonable force  ::)

I agree that, (purely, on the facts given here) it would be very extreme to "pre-emptively" tazer someone, but again, I don't know the in's and out's, so it's not for me to say whether it was right or wrong...


it's a fair cop guv ;)

like i said i'm sure they had good reason considering the armed robbery...

just think it's very dodgy in principal, say they got the wrong guy? or worse he had a medical condition :-/
Title: Re: traffic cops teaser gun
Post by: Tony H on 12 January 2009, 21:47:34
Very emotive subject, I'm all for the boys in blue being given the protection they deserve in this gun toting ,knife culture world, however there has been numerous cases in the states were the use of tazers has been fatal
Title: Re: traffic cops teaser gun
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 12 January 2009, 21:49:24
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bit like me saying i thought he was going to hit me so i punched him back first :D

If you had a genuine belief that he was going to hit you, then your action of striking them first would be considered reasonable force  ::)

I agree that, (purely, on the facts given here) it would be very extreme to "pre-emptively" tazer someone, but again, I don't know the in's and out's, so it's not for me to say whether it was right or wrong...


it's a fair cop guv ;)

like i said i'm sure they had good reason considering the armed robbery...

just think it's very dodgy in principal, say they got the wrong guy? or worse he had a medical condition :-/

In an ideal world their dynamic risk assessment would have considered these points  ..

On a personal level, I agree the risks of deploying a tazer are huge.

Purely from personal opinion - I imagine they had a strong suspicion he was armed, to use the force they did..

The average bobby (certainly at the moment) won't have access to such a device, so I guess for much of it we must trust that the ARV involved had their reasons...  and made their decision based on a lot of training and experience...
Title: Re: traffic cops teaser gun
Post by: HerefordElite on 12 January 2009, 21:59:56
update: round up at end of programme said the guy was "eliminated from their enquiries"  :-X
Title: Re: traffic cops teaser gun
Post by: nick v6 on 12 January 2009, 22:00:02
turns out the bloke they hit with the gun had nothing to do with it
Title: Re: traffic cops teaser gun
Post by: HolyCount on 12 January 2009, 22:04:57
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turns out the bloke they hit with the gun had nothing to do with it

Well --- better he was Tazered than shot then !!!!!
Title: Re: traffic cops teaser gun
Post by: albitz on 12 January 2009, 22:08:28
A bit like jean charles demenezes,but with a happy ending. >:(
Title: Re: traffic cops teaser gun
Post by: HerefordElite on 12 January 2009, 22:09:34
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turns out the bloke they hit with the gun had nothing to do with it

Well --- better he was Tazered than shot then !!!!!


i'm sure if they'd asked him nicely he would have come quietly - i know i would if 5 coppers were pointing guns at me  ::)
Title: Re: traffic cops teaser gun
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 12 January 2009, 22:11:34
You can withstand a million volts if the current is low enough....anything above about 20mA is worrying particularly across the chest cavity.

There are far more dangerous things around the house (i.e. a fully charged secondary HT cap from a microwave.....20KV dc with a shed load of energy!)

Title: Re: traffic cops teaser gun
Post by: HerefordElite on 12 January 2009, 22:38:17
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You can withstand a million volts if the current is low enough....anything above about 20mA is worrying particularly across the chest cavity.

There are far more dangerous things around the house (i.e. a fully charged secondary HT cap from a microwave.....20KV dc with a shed load of energy!)



nah they definately weren't pointing a microwave at him :D
Title: Re: traffic cops teaser gun
Post by: Kieran on 12 January 2009, 22:40:43
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i bet there is some muppet selling those gun's on flebay

simon_omega might have stock of them ;D

;D
He has sold his lot to the Daily Mail ;D
Title: Re: traffic cops teaser gun
Post by: stuart30 on 12 January 2009, 23:04:57
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never mind that, who the opps has decide that you can use a 'premtive' strike with 50000volts?

what ever happened to innocent till proven guilty?

load of bollards

i'm fuming >:(

If the ossifers had honest held belief that their safety was under threat, they are justified in using reasonable force....

Appreaciate that's a bit of a blanket statement, but I don't know the circs of the Original post...



the guy was "suspected" i repeat "suspected" of an armed robbery weeks before and at the time was just walking down the street blatantly not carrying a gun.

I appreciate the severity of armed robbery but the officers were given the go ahead for a "pre-emtive" tazzer which means they just shouted tazzer and shot him!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

this is wrong, i don't care how dangerous they think this guy is you can't just go shooting first and asking questions later >:(

Well ive worked with an armed robber and he was of no threat too anyone (post office staff aside.).

In fact quite a shock when we found out.... ;D

So if they have tasered the guy simply due too what has happened previously then id say thats out of order.
Title: Re: traffic cops teaser gun
Post by: Cliffo B on 12 January 2009, 23:08:55
What happens if they taizer someone with a heart condition, could it then be murder?
Title: Re: traffic cops teaser gun
Post by: Danny on 12 January 2009, 23:10:02
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What happens if they taizer someone with a heart condition, could it then be murder?

or the exact opposite effect?
Title: Re: traffic cops teaser gun
Post by: stuart30 on 12 January 2009, 23:10:38
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bit like me saying i thought he was going to hit me so i punched him back first :D

If you had a genuine belief that he was going to hit you, then your action of striking them first would be considered reasonable force  ::)

I agree that, (purely, on the facts given here) it would be very extreme to "pre-emptively" tazer someone, but again, I don't know the in's and out's, so it's not for me to say whether it was right or wrong...

Sorry James thats not true...each case is looked at indivially.

There's no protection in law for simply defending your self due too feeling under threat.

Ive received a 5 year caution for using reasonable force too defend myself....and that was only as the guy refused too press charges.
Title: Re: traffic cops teaser gun
Post by: HerefordElite on 12 January 2009, 23:11:31
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What happens if they taizer someone with a heart condition, could it then be murder?

no coz they the law ::)

just ask jean charles demenezes :-/
Title: Re: traffic cops teaser gun
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 12 January 2009, 23:56:28
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bit like me saying i thought he was going to hit me so i punched him back first :D

If you had a genuine belief that he was going to hit you, then your action of striking them first would be considered reasonable force  ::)

I agree that, (purely, on the facts given here) it would be very extreme to "pre-emptively" tazer someone, but again, I don't know the in's and out's, so it's not for me to say whether it was right or wrong...

Sorry James thats not true...each case is looked at indivially.

There's no protection in law for simply defending your self due too feeling under threat.

Ive received a 5 year caution for using reasonable force too defend myself....and that was only as the guy refused too press charges.


If I believe someone is going to hit me, and it's going to cause damage - I will use anything at my disposal to avoid being hurt, and take the flack later...

Title: Re: traffic cops teaser gun
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 13 January 2009, 00:00:32
As an aside, if you believed you acted reasonably - why did you accept the caution? (You need to admit guilt before being eligible for a caution).

I'd have gone to court and argued my case...
Title: Re: traffic cops teaser gun
Post by: stuart30 on 13 January 2009, 00:20:44
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As an aside, if you believed you acted reasonably - why did you accept the caution? (You need to admit guilt before being eligible for a caution).

I'd have gone to court and argued my case...

Na couldn't risk going too court as id kicked the living crap out of the bloke...(after having too defend myself)  ;D

Point is i was arrested for assault...argued it was just self defence and had used minimal force and was told that i could NOT defend myself until i had PHYSICLAY been struck.

The law is so grey its laughable....and after spending a day in the cells with nothing too wipe your arse on or a cigi your rather keen too get out.

Still makes me laugh too this day remembering him cowering in the corner as im hitting him. ;D ;D
Title: Re: traffic cops teaser gun
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 13 January 2009, 00:27:44
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Still makes me laugh too this day remembering him cowering in the corner as im hitting him. ;D ;D

I think the self defence / pre-emptive strike card can no longer applies, once you are able to make escape from the assailant (eg, when they're cowering in a corner and you're still smacking them  ;D ;D )

Title: Re: traffic cops teaser gun
Post by: stuart30 on 13 January 2009, 00:33:13
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Still makes me laugh too this day remembering him cowering in the corner as im hitting him. ;D ;D

I think the self defence / pre-emptive strike card can no longer applies, once you are able to make escape from the assailant (eg, when they're cowering in a corner and you're still smacking them  ;D ;D )


Police didnt know that...they simply kept stating i wasnt allowed too defend my self until AFTER he had struck the first blow.

Maybe thats been revised now...and i hope it has. :)

What annoys me more than anything there is no guidlines as too whats reasonable...so its impossible too defend your self too police/courts as too the use of force youve used. >:(