Omega Owners Forum

Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: Martin_1962 on 12 January 2009, 20:53:51

Title: 20 years a programmer
Post by: Martin_1962 on 12 January 2009, 20:53:51
Amazed to work out today that I have been programming professionally for 20 years!!!!
Title: Re: 20 years a programmer
Post by: STMO123 on 12 January 2009, 20:55:01
20 years!!!  What did you start on??
Title: Re: 20 years a programmer
Post by: cem_devecioglu on 12 January 2009, 20:58:35
Very long time for a hard job..Congrats :y
Title: Re: 20 years a programmer
Post by: Martin_1962 on 12 January 2009, 21:06:00
Quote
20 years!!!  What did you start on??


Wordtech dbase II compatible compiler, then later Clipper Summer 87, used Clipper skills in another job now using Visual Objects, Alaska XBase++
Title: Re: 20 years a programmer
Post by: dbug on 12 January 2009, 21:08:26
Assembly language?  Remember the C64?
Title: Re: 20 years a programmer
Post by: TheBoy on 12 January 2009, 21:13:29
Quote
Assembly language?  Remember the C64?
did mine first assembly on a ZX81 and ZX Rectum...
Title: Re: 20 years a programmer
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 12 January 2009, 21:15:15
Z80 assembler and machine code was my first programming work....then Occam!

Title: Re: 20 years a programmer
Post by: Welung666 on 12 January 2009, 21:16:48
I did some compiling on DBase IV many moons ago.
Title: Re: 20 years a programmer
Post by: TheBoy on 12 January 2009, 21:17:23
Quote
Z80 assembler and machine code was my first programming work....then Occam!

Aye, Z80.  A great processor in its day (still is) imho :y
Title: Re: 20 years a programmer
Post by: TheBoy on 12 January 2009, 21:18:28
Quote
I did some compiling on DBase IV many moons ago.
Ah yes, the buggy, bloated, late DB that pretty much single handedly caused Aston-Tate to go tits up
Title: Re: 20 years a programmer
Post by: dbug on 12 January 2009, 21:19:26
Still got a couple of C64s - wonder if they will still fire up ok?

Title: Re: 20 years a programmer
Post by: cem_devecioglu on 12 January 2009, 21:21:29
C128..passed many days and nights on it with a tape..

Seems many assembler enthusiasts here :y

Title: Re: 20 years a programmer
Post by: TheBoy on 12 January 2009, 21:22:10
Quote
Still got a couple of C64s - wonder if they will still fire up ok?

Caps might be a bit dry...


In my tidying up this week, I found:
ZX81 and 16k rampack
ZX Spectrum
ZX Spectrum+
Couple of ZX Interface 1s
Interface 2
Couple of Microdrives
2 QLs
2 BBC Model Bs
Title: Re: 20 years a programmer
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 12 January 2009, 21:25:16
Z80 still gets used in a lot of apps.

PIS's are slowly killing it though....PIC's are great little microcontrollers though!
Title: Re: 20 years a programmer
Post by: cem_devecioglu on 12 January 2009, 21:27:07
planning to buy one this
http://www.mikroe.com/en/tools/bigpic5/
Title: Re: 20 years a programmer
Post by: TheBoy on 12 January 2009, 21:29:04
Quote
Z80 still gets used in a lot of apps.

PIS's are slowly killing it though....PIC's are great little microcontrollers though!
I suspect Z80 still used a lot due to cost now as well...  ...though at 30yrs old, its about time it was retired ;D
Title: Re: 20 years a programmer
Post by: Kevin Wood on 12 January 2009, 21:31:14
Quote
Quote
Still got a couple of C64s - wonder if they will still fire up ok?

Caps might be a bit dry...


In my tidying up this week, I found:
ZX81 and 16k rampack
ZX Spectrum
ZX Spectrum+
Couple of ZX Interface 1s
Interface 2
Couple of Microdrives
2 QLs
2 BBC Model Bs

.. and I bet the BBC micros still work, too.  ;)

Kevin
Title: Re: 20 years a programmer
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 12 January 2009, 21:32:47
Quote
Quote
Z80 still gets used in a lot of apps.

PIS's are slowly killing it though....PIC's are great little microcontrollers though!
I suspect Z80 still used a lot due to cost now as well...  ...though at 30yrs old, its about time it was retired ;D

Trouble is the PIC's are cheaper!

And pretty powerful!
Title: Re: 20 years a programmer
Post by: TheBoy on 12 January 2009, 21:34:03
Quote
Quote
Quote
Z80 still gets used in a lot of apps.

PIS's are slowly killing it though....PIC's are great little microcontrollers though!
I suspect Z80 still used a lot due to cost now as well...  ...though at 30yrs old, its about time it was retired ;D

Trouble is the PIC's are cheaper!

And pretty powerful!
Yes, I can believe PICs have now got cheaper.  And probably easier to implement (though the Z80 was quite easy compared to other processors of its day)?
Title: Re: 20 years a programmer
Post by: TheBoy on 12 January 2009, 21:35:48
Quote
Quote
Quote
Still got a couple of C64s - wonder if they will still fire up ok?

Caps might be a bit dry...


In my tidying up this week, I found:
ZX81 and 16k rampack
ZX Spectrum
ZX Spectrum+
Couple of ZX Interface 1s
Interface 2
Couple of Microdrives
2 QLs
2 BBC Model Bs

.. and I bet the BBC micros still work, too.  ;)

Kevin
The one I tried has a weird fault - certain characters on the screen are wrong, eg a c becomes an M (that may not be exactly right), until you press a key, then its all OK until you release key  :-/
Title: Re: 20 years a programmer
Post by: Kevin Wood on 12 January 2009, 21:39:44
Quote
The one I tried has a weird fault - certain characters on the screen are wrong, eg a c becomes an M (that may not be exactly right), until you press a key, then its all OK until you release key  :-/

Just in Mode 7 or all display modes?

Kevin
Title: Re: 20 years a programmer
Post by: TheBoy on 12 January 2009, 21:44:51
Quote
Quote
The one I tried has a weird fault - certain characters on the screen are wrong, eg a c becomes an M (that may not be exactly right), until you press a key, then its all OK until you release key  :-/

Just in Mode 7 or all display modes?

Kevin
only got as far as switching it on, cant remember what mode they start in, too long ago. Or did it start in 7 if it was available - I know the model As didn't have it
Title: Re: 20 years a programmer
Post by: Christian on 12 January 2009, 21:46:47
I loved my Spectrum 48k! ;)
Title: Re: 20 years a programmer
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 12 January 2009, 21:48:15
Quote
I loved my Spectrum 48k! ;)

lol got one of those and a 128K+ in the loft....trouble is, I no longer have anything capable of loading a game on it since tapes (and the players) went out of fashion!
Title: Re: 20 years a programmer
Post by: Tony H on 12 January 2009, 21:50:17
I wish I knew what the f*ck you lot are on about :-/ :)
Title: Re: 20 years a programmer
Post by: TheBoy on 12 January 2009, 21:50:26
Quote
Quote
I loved my Spectrum 48k! ;)

lol got one of those and a 128K+ in the loft....trouble is, I no longer have anything capable of loading a game on it since tapes (and the players) went out of fashion!
Still got one, but I've cut the plug off at some point, so I need to find a spare 13a plug ;D
Title: Re: 20 years a programmer
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 12 January 2009, 21:51:50
I did learn C and C++ at Uni....plus 68000 and 6800 micors to.....
Title: Re: 20 years a programmer
Post by: Kevin Wood on 12 January 2009, 21:52:31
Model B defaulted to mode 7 but you could jumper it to start in other modes. Mode 7 used a teletext chip to generate characters whereas the other modes used a frame buffer in memory.

Just wondering if you get acne all over the screen in the other modes, which would probably indicate memory errors.

Still got mine in the loft. Still works, despite the abuse it took. I wasn't far away from having converted it to a Master series using wire-wrap before I got a 286 8-) and it got abandoned. :'(

Came across an Acorn Electron too. Can't remember where I got that from. Certainly didn't pay any money for it. :o

Kevin
Title: Re: 20 years a programmer
Post by: TheBoy on 12 January 2009, 21:56:09
I found a master 4 or 5 years ago, got good money for it on egay
Title: Re: 20 years a programmer
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 12 January 2009, 21:57:41
lol, model B's are pretty worthless at the mo

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/BBC-B-Computers-and-accessories_W0QQitemZ300286249999QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_VintageComputing_RL?hash=item300286249999&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1300%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318
Title: Re: 20 years a programmer
Post by: TheBoy on 12 January 2009, 21:58:13
Quote
I did learn C and C++ at Uni....plus 68000 and 6800 micors to.....
bit rusty at c now, last c i did was some ms-mail utils
Title: Re: 20 years a programmer
Post by: CaptainZok on 12 January 2009, 21:59:40
Think there's a zx printer knocking around somewhere upstairs, complete with a roll of that tinfoil bog paper it printed on.
Title: Re: 20 years a programmer
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 12 January 2009, 22:02:58
lol....the thermal paper.....marvelous stuff.

Used to put sheets of it on the girls chairs at uni and over about half an hour it would give an imprint of thier arse.....what a sad life we led at the time!
Title: Re: 20 years a programmer
Post by: cem_devecioglu on 12 January 2009, 22:03:22
Quote
Quote
I did learn C and C++ at Uni....plus 68000 and 6800 micors to.....
bit rusty at c now, last c i did was some ms-mail utils

more than 10 years under unix  another rusty one here!
Title: Re: 20 years a programmer
Post by: Kevin Wood on 12 January 2009, 22:13:26
Quote
more than 10 years under unix  another rusty one here!

C/C++ is all I've done for too long. Oh, and a bit of piddling about with PICs and AVRs.

I remember my Dad printing out the Christmas card labels on my ZX Printer. What an honour it must have been receiving such a Christmas card! Assuming it didn't get too hot at the sorting office, of course!

Kevin
Title: Re: 20 years a programmer
Post by: TheBoy on 12 January 2009, 22:14:49
Quote
Quote
more than 10 years under unix  another rusty one here!

C/C++ is all I've done for too long. Oh, and a bit of piddling about with PICs and AVRs.

I remember my Dad printing out the Christmas card labels on my ZX Printer. What an honour it must have been receiving such a Christmas card! Assuming it didn't get too hot at the sorting office, of course!

Kevin
sinclairs paper was so sensitive, if you touch it, it used to leave thumbprints....
Title: Re: 20 years a programmer
Post by: Kevin Wood on 12 January 2009, 22:27:02
Quote
Quote
Quote
more than 10 years under unix  another rusty one here!

C/C++ is all I've done for too long. Oh, and a bit of piddling about with PICs and AVRs.

I remember my Dad printing out the Christmas card labels on my ZX Printer. What an honour it must have been receiving such a Christmas card! Assuming it didn't get too hot at the sorting office, of course!

Kevin
sinclairs paper was so sensitive, if you touch it, it used to leave thumbprints....

You have to admire Sinclair for actually getting anything to work. When you took their stuff apart and realised how crude it was it was nothing short of a miracle that it ever worked at all.

Kevin
Title: Re: 20 years a programmer
Post by: CaptainZok on 12 January 2009, 22:29:49
Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
more than 10 years under unix  another rusty one here!

C/C++ is all I've done for too long. Oh, and a bit of piddling about with PICs and AVRs.

I remember my Dad printing out the Christmas card labels on my ZX Printer. What an honour it must have been receiving such a Christmas card! Assuming it didn't get too hot at the sorting office, of course!

Kevin
sinclairs paper was so sensitive, if you touch it, it used to leave thumbprints....

You have to admire Sinclair for actually getting anything to work. When you took their stuff apart and realised how crude it was it was nothing short of a miracle that it ever worked at all.

Kevin
Sounds like a man who's had to fix a few dodgy keyboard membranes in his time there Kevin.
Title: Re: 20 years a programmer
Post by: TheBoy on 12 January 2009, 22:31:08
Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
more than 10 years under unix  another rusty one here!

C/C++ is all I've done for too long. Oh, and a bit of piddling about with PICs and AVRs.

I remember my Dad printing out the Christmas card labels on my ZX Printer. What an honour it must have been receiving such a Christmas card! Assuming it didn't get too hot at the sorting office, of course!

Kevin
sinclairs paper was so sensitive, if you touch it, it used to leave thumbprints....

You have to admire Sinclair for actually getting anything to work. When you took their stuff apart and realised how crude it was it was nothing short of a miracle that it ever worked at all.

Kevin
The microdrives in particular are a work of art.  How the hell they worked at all is a miracle....
Title: Re: 20 years a programmer
Post by: Martin_1962 on 12 January 2009, 23:29:56
Quote
Quote
I did some compiling on DBase IV many moons ago.
Ah yes, the buggy, bloated, late DB that pretty much single handedly caused Aston-Tate to go tits up


Total crap - NAntucket and Fox had the right idea
Title: Re: 20 years a programmer
Post by: Martin_1962 on 12 January 2009, 23:33:56
Done C as well - but not a lot, but enough to maintain C programs and write routines in it.

Worst languages and 4GLs, tried Progress - very restrictive, Visual Basic has a very nasty IDE.

The dbase interactive environments are rubbish compared to the compilers.

Before getting a job I learnt COBOL, BASIC, some XBASE
Title: Re: 20 years a programmer
Post by: Martin_1962 on 12 January 2009, 23:34:19
My first PC - VIC 20 :y
Title: Re: 20 years a programmer
Post by: Vamps on 13 January 2009, 00:13:05
If Jo Public were to read this thread I am sure it would prove what they think about those who work with computers...., thing it begins with G............ :-X
Title: Re: 20 years a programmer
Post by: Mr Hagon on 13 January 2009, 08:47:02
I remember my Dad bringing home a number of weird and wonderful computers back in the 80s.  BBC Model B was one of them, think I managed to flog it to a local Cub Scout organisation for a couple of quid.  It had the 5.25" floppy drive and an Epson FX-80 dot matrix printer.  Always enjoyed playing Elite on it.

I see to remember he also had something very obscure: Oric Atmos.  Anyone remember that one?

Mark
Title: Re: 20 years a programmer
Post by: Kevin Wood on 13 January 2009, 09:41:36
Quote
I remember my Dad bringing home a number of weird and wonderful computers back in the 80s.  BBC Model B was one of them, think I managed to flog it to a local Cub Scout organisation for a couple of quid.  It had the 5.25" floppy drive and an Epson FX-80 dot matrix printer.  Always enjoyed playing Elite on it.

I see to remember he also had something very obscure: Oric Atmos.  Anyone remember that one?

Mark

Yep, one of my school mates had one of them.

I remember getting to play with an Apple Lisa sometime in the early 80's. First mouse driven GUI I met.

Also spent some time on the VAX 11/750 where my dad worked - using my BBC micro as a terminal.

My mates' Dad worked for DEC, and he had a PDP8, PDP11 and a vicrovax at home.  8-)

It's amazing that, as far as computers have come since then, you still seem to spend your life cursing them, and waiting for them to load stuff. >:(

Kevin
Title: Re: 20 years a programmer
Post by: sev on 13 January 2009, 10:26:09
Quote
I wish I knew what the f*ck you lot are on about :-/ :)

 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D


Quote
lol....the thermal paper.....marvelous stuff.

Used to put sheets of it on the girls chairs at uni and over about half an hour it would give an imprint of thier arse.....what a sad life we led at the time!

 :'( That... is a thing of beauty...
Title: Re: 20 years a programmer
Post by: BazMV6 on 13 January 2009, 15:05:01
You youngsters...  ::)  I'm writing ALGOL today.   :y
Title: Re: 20 years a programmer
Post by: TheBoy on 13 January 2009, 18:38:43
Quote
Done C as well - but not a lot, but enough to maintain C programs and write routines in it.

Worst languages and 4GLs, tried Progress - very restrictive, Visual Basic has a very nasty IDE.

The dbase interactive environments are rubbish compared to the compilers.

Before getting a job I learnt COBOL, BASIC, some XBASE
The non .net versions were kinda hampered by trying to be familiar to users of previous versions, which itself was kinda hampered by the VB for DOS product (actually rather good, but quirky interface).

VB's biggest problem was the mess it got in tryinging to kludge new ideas into a language not really geared to take it - sterling effort by MS, but was never going to be truely achieveable, hence VB.NET being very, very different.


Sadly, I still have to maintain a medium size VB6 app that can't port to .net - and VB6 has just gone out of support.  Fortunately, as the runtimes are included in XP and Vista, they continue to get security fixes...
Title: Re: 20 years a programmer
Post by: Jay w on 13 January 2009, 18:43:40
i still have an unbuilt ZX81 in storage....managed to get 2 of then in the 80's i built one and left the other
Title: Re: 20 years a programmer
Post by: cem_devecioglu on 13 January 2009, 18:59:47
Quote
Quote
Done C as well - but not a lot, but enough to maintain C programs and write routines in it.

Worst languages and 4GLs, tried Progress - very restrictive, Visual Basic has a very nasty IDE.

The dbase interactive environments are rubbish compared to the compilers.

Before getting a job I learnt COBOL, BASIC, some XBASE
The non .net versions were kinda hampered by trying to be familiar to users of previous versions, which itself was kinda hampered by the VB for DOS product (actually rather good, but quirky interface).

VB's biggest problem was the mess it got in tryinging to kludge new ideas into a language not really geared to take it - sterling effort by MS, but was never going to be truely achieveable, hence VB.NET being very, very different.

Sadly, I still have to maintain a medium size VB6 app that can't port to .net - and VB6 has just gone out of support.  Fortunately, as the runtimes are included in XP and Vista, they continue to get security fixes...

yep..  VB.NET very different.. in prev version you can write codes in n  similiar to the speed you write a normal document..development is really quick..

for .NET you need serious planning .. But once you finish I have seen the same code working 40-50 times faster :o :o

and also porting VB6 apllications very hard to nearly imposible in terms of project time..As most objects are changed and classes being very different..

But still I like vb6, very fast to develop for a specific task..And still many programmers prefer ..
Title: Re: 20 years a programmer
Post by: TheBoy on 13 January 2009, 19:21:46
Quote
Quote
Quote
Done C as well - but not a lot, but enough to maintain C programs and write routines in it.

Worst languages and 4GLs, tried Progress - very restrictive, Visual Basic has a very nasty IDE.

The dbase interactive environments are rubbish compared to the compilers.

Before getting a job I learnt COBOL, BASIC, some XBASE
The non .net versions were kinda hampered by trying to be familiar to users of previous versions, which itself was kinda hampered by the VB for DOS product (actually rather good, but quirky interface).

VB's biggest problem was the mess it got in tryinging to kludge new ideas into a language not really geared to take it - sterling effort by MS, but was never going to be truely achieveable, hence VB.NET being very, very different.

Sadly, I still have to maintain a medium size VB6 app that can't port to .net - and VB6 has just gone out of support.  Fortunately, as the runtimes are included in XP and Vista, they continue to get security fixes...

yep..  VB.NET very different.. in prev version you can write codes in n  similiar to the speed you write a normal document..development is really quick..

for .NET you need serious planning .. But once you finish I have seen the same code working 40-50 times faster :o :o

and also porting VB6 apllications very hard to nearly imposible in terms of project time..As most objects are changed and classes being very different..

But still I like vb6, very fast to develop for a specific task..And still many programmers prefer ..
with .net 2005 and 2008, vb6 generally important well ime, in so much as you have a functioning app.  It will take some tidying up to make it more ".net like", but will work.

It all goes Pete Tong when you drive certain bits of (some homemade some commercial) hardware directly ::)
Title: Re: 20 years a programmer
Post by: cem_devecioglu on 13 January 2009, 21:11:32
Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
Done C as well - but not a lot, but enough to maintain C programs and write routines in it.

Worst languages and 4GLs, tried Progress - very restrictive, Visual Basic has a very nasty IDE.

The dbase interactive environments are rubbish compared to the compilers.

Before getting a job I learnt COBOL, BASIC, some XBASE
The non .net versions were kinda hampered by trying to be familiar to users of previous versions, which itself was kinda hampered by the VB for DOS product (actually rather good, but quirky interface).

VB's biggest problem was the mess it got in tryinging to kludge new ideas into a language not really geared to take it - sterling effort by MS, but was never going to be truely achieveable, hence VB.NET being very, very different.

Sadly, I still have to maintain a medium size VB6 app that can't port to .net - and VB6 has just gone out of support.  Fortunately, as the runtimes are included in XP and Vista, they continue to get security fixes...

yep..  VB.NET very different.. in prev version you can write codes in n  similiar to the speed you write a normal document..development is really quick..

for .NET you need serious planning .. But once you finish I have seen the same code working 40-50 times faster :o :o

and also porting VB6 apllications very hard to nearly imposible in terms of project time..As most objects are changed and classes being very different..

But still I like vb6, very fast to develop for a specific task..And still many programmers prefer ..
with .net 2005 and 2008, vb6 generally important well ime, in so much as you have a functioning app.  It will take some tidying up to make it more ".net like", but will work.

It all goes Pete Tong when you drive certain bits of (some homemade some commercial) hardware directly ::)

as usual..

my woriies are mostly API usage in vb6 as most of those are for win2000 and xp.. if windows 7 changed some APIs we need a long work..

And I'm not planning to rewrite those codes again unless somebody pay (which I dont expect)
Title: Re: 20 years a programmer
Post by: Kevin Wood on 13 January 2009, 22:24:30
Quote
It all goes Pete Tong when you drive certain bits of (some homemade some commercial) hardware directly ::)

That's where the BBC model B comes in, surely?

Kevin
Title: Re: 20 years a programmer
Post by: TheBoy on 13 January 2009, 22:32:46
Quote
Quote
It all goes Pete Tong when you drive certain bits of (some homemade some commercial) hardware directly ::)

That's where the BBC model B comes in, surely?

Kevin
might look a bit crap in my brother's shops if his tills were beebs...  ...i also reckon a ms-sql client might be difficult to obtain ;D
Title: Re: 20 years a programmer
Post by: Martin_1962 on 13 January 2009, 22:45:34
Quote
Quote
Done C as well - but not a lot, but enough to maintain C programs and write routines in it.

Worst languages and 4GLs, tried Progress - very restrictive, Visual Basic has a very nasty IDE.

The dbase interactive environments are rubbish compared to the compilers.

Before getting a job I learnt COBOL, BASIC, some XBASE
The non .net versions were kinda hampered by trying to be familiar to users of previous versions, which itself was kinda hampered by the VB for DOS product (actually rather good, but quirky interface).

VB's biggest problem was the mess it got in tryinging to kludge new ideas into a language not really geared to take it - sterling effort by MS, but was never going to be truely achieveable, hence VB.NET being very, very different.


Sadly, I still have to maintain a medium size VB6 app that can't port to .net - and VB6 has just gone out of support.  Fortunately, as the runtimes are included in XP and Vista, they continue to get security fixes...


VB 6 - I had edited a lot of the .bas in an external editor, for power reasons, then reloaded and VB screwed all my formatting >:(.

I ended up rewriting to change all the variable names to the same length.

All the decent xbases short cut on statements (to be faster), pretty sure C does as well, does VB no it doesn't

IF a or b and if a passes still does b ect aghhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!

Really shitty language >:(

When I converted a load of code to produce some data routines it took days!

First time I had changed language and had to change structure of these routines. (Locking control ect, ported all over the place VB was worst) Oh I do like the Clipper dialect!
Title: Re: 20 years a programmer
Post by: Martin_1962 on 13 January 2009, 22:48:08
Hmmm data - I love Advantage Database Server.

We are investigating environments for our next project which will be (deleted because our competitors might read) but sticking with CA-VO and VC++ for the current product
Title: Re: 20 years a programmer
Post by: TheBoy on 13 January 2009, 22:52:12
Quote
Quote
Quote
Done C as well - but not a lot, but enough to maintain C programs and write routines in it.

Worst languages and 4GLs, tried Progress - very restrictive, Visual Basic has a very nasty IDE.

The dbase interactive environments are rubbish compared to the compilers.

Before getting a job I learnt COBOL, BASIC, some XBASE
The non .net versions were kinda hampered by trying to be familiar to users of previous versions, which itself was kinda hampered by the VB for DOS product (actually rather good, but quirky interface).

VB's biggest problem was the mess it got in tryinging to kludge new ideas into a language not really geared to take it - sterling effort by MS, but was never going to be truely achieveable, hence VB.NET being very, very different.


Sadly, I still have to maintain a medium size VB6 app that can't port to .net - and VB6 has just gone out of support.  Fortunately, as the runtimes are included in XP and Vista, they continue to get security fixes...


VB 6 - I had edited a lot of the .bas in an external editor, for power reasons, then reloaded and VB screwed all my formatting >:(.

I ended up rewriting to change all the variable names to the same length.

All the decent xbases short cut on statements (to be faster), pretty sure C does as well, does VB no it doesn't

IF a or b and if a passes still does b ect aghhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!

Really shitty language >:(

When I converted a load of code to produce some data routines it took days!

First time I had changed language and had to change structure of these routines. (Locking control ect, ported all over the place VB was worst) Oh I do like the Clipper dialect!
Pre .net variants did suffer a messy, inconsistent langauge, due to its history.  Still a lot of apps run on it though, including some big-ish websites. Its done a great job, but old style VB should be retired (or used for scripting as .vbs).
Title: Re: 20 years a programmer
Post by: Martin_1962 on 13 January 2009, 23:30:48
Our last surviving VB app is hated by everyone for maintenance, if a rewrite gets required it will end up in Visual Objects quicker than anything.
Title: Re: 20 years a programmer
Post by: TheBoy on 14 January 2009, 19:18:43
Quote
Our last surviving VB app is hated by everyone for maintenance, if a rewrite gets required it will end up in Visual Objects quicker than anything.
simply as thats what you're used to.
Title: Re: 20 years a programmer
Post by: Martin_1962 on 14 January 2009, 19:41:35
Quote
Quote
Our last surviving VB app is hated by everyone for maintenance, if a rewrite gets required it will end up in Visual Objects quicker than anything.
simply as thats what you're used to.


Looks like a mix between C++ and Clipper!
Title: Re: 20 years a programmer
Post by: cem_devecioglu on 14 January 2009, 20:05:48
still I'm using vb6..And I find it pretty useful and quicker to develop than anything.. :D

and for web notepad + vbscript is still usefull ;D
Title: Re: 20 years a programmer
Post by: TheBoy on 14 January 2009, 20:42:33
Quote
Quote
Quote
Our last surviving VB app is hated by everyone for maintenance, if a rewrite gets required it will end up in Visual Objects quicker than anything.
simply as thats what you're used to.


Looks like a mix between C++ and Clipper!
And thats a good thing?
Title: Re: 20 years a programmer
Post by: Martin_1962 on 14 January 2009, 21:57:45
Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
Our last surviving VB app is hated by everyone for maintenance, if a rewrite gets required it will end up in Visual Objects quicker than anything.
simply as thats what you're used to.


Looks like a mix between C++ and Clipper!
And thats a good thing?


Oooh yes object oriented (I like objects) and is based on the most powerful XBASE dialect there is. For data manipulation the xbase family especially Clipper and VO are definately the dogs danglies.

And a large amount of our current software uses it and is pretty powerful VC used for the machine control and the optimiser.

The database engine we use, usually wins in head to head client server competitions - partly because it is one of the fastest around, and is nice to use as you can use either SQL or ISAM access, ISAM is sodding quick!
Title: Re: 20 years a programmer
Post by: cem_devecioglu on 14 January 2009, 22:00:38
Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
Our last surviving VB app is hated by everyone for maintenance, if a rewrite gets required it will end up in Visual Objects quicker than anything.
simply as thats what you're used to.


Looks like a mix between C++ and Clipper!
And thats a good thing?


Oooh yes object oriented (I like objects) and is based on the most powerful XBASE dialect there is. For data manipulation the xbase family especially Clipper and VO are definately the dogs danglies.

And a large amount of our current software uses it and is pretty powerful VC used for the machine control and the optimiser.

The database engine we use, usually wins in head to head client server competitions - partly because it is one of the fastest around, and is nice to use as you can use either SQL or ISAM access, ISAM is sodding quick!

its been long time nobody talk about it.. wonder some programmers even know what it is ;D
Title: Re: 20 years a programmer
Post by: Martin_1962 on 14 January 2009, 22:03:10
Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
Our last surviving VB app is hated by everyone for maintenance, if a rewrite gets required it will end up in Visual Objects quicker than anything.
simply as thats what you're used to.


Looks like a mix between C++ and Clipper!
And thats a good thing?


Oooh yes object oriented (I like objects) and is based on the most powerful XBASE dialect there is. For data manipulation the xbase family especially Clipper and VO are definately the dogs danglies.

And a large amount of our current software uses it and is pretty powerful VC used for the machine control and the optimiser.

The database engine we use, usually wins in head to head client server competitions - partly because it is one of the fastest around, and is nice to use as you can use either SQL or ISAM access, ISAM is sodding quick!

its been long time nobody talk about it.. wonder some programmers even know what it is ;D


ISAM - been using the technology myself for longer than been a professional programmer. Makes more sense to me than SQL as well, just easier, and I like controlling locking ect myself
Title: Re: 20 years a programmer
Post by: cem_devecioglu on 14 January 2009, 22:10:07
Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
Our last surviving VB app is hated by everyone for maintenance, if a rewrite gets required it will end up in Visual Objects quicker than anything.
simply as thats what you're used to.


Looks like a mix between C++ and Clipper!
And thats a good thing?


Oooh yes object oriented (I like objects) and is based on the most powerful XBASE dialect there is. For data manipulation the xbase family especially Clipper and VO are definately the dogs danglies.

And a large amount of our current software uses it and is pretty powerful VC used for the machine control and the optimiser.

The database engine we use, usually wins in head to head client server competitions - partly because it is one of the fastest around, and is nice to use as you can use either SQL or ISAM access, ISAM is sodding quick!

its been long time nobody talk about it.. wonder some programmers even know what it is ;D


ISAM - been using the technology myself for longer than been a professional programmer. Makes more sense to me than SQL as well, just easier, and I like controlling locking ect myself

Have advantages and disadvantages..

But nowadays SQL seems to be more simple  :-/

anyway I dont have to pay the SQL licenses when working for govt ;D
Title: Re: 20 years a programmer
Post by: TheBoy on 14 January 2009, 22:10:32
Pure ISAM is fast, but usually too limiting for most applications. Its also hopeless at related tables, requiring too many requests being fired off to the server.

I wrote a couple of ISAM database engines for my brother's epos systems back in the 1980s, but now using SQL.
Title: Re: 20 years a programmer
Post by: tunnie on 14 January 2009, 22:12:23
guess who has been programming in SAS most of the day  ::)

My code is almost there, another few hours and its off my to-do list, and hopefully get some big brownie points for something  :-X
Title: Re: 20 years a programmer
Post by: cem_devecioglu on 14 January 2009, 22:19:31
Quote
ISAM is fast, but usually too limiting for most applications. Its also hopeless at related tables, requiring too many requests being fired off to the server.

I wrote a couple of ISAM database engines for my brother's epos systems back in the 1980s, but now using SQL.

Problem with ISAM is its implementation was designed when memories for servers are unbelievably small..

Later come the VSAM which is far superior which I tried to implement
under C..(under unix with semaphores for locking)

But SQL is another world in terms of relation which requires serious memory for complicated joins.. But  on the background VSAM based Btree indexes work still :)  but mostly on cached index pages on memory ..
Title: Re: 20 years a programmer
Post by: TheBoy on 14 January 2009, 22:38:04
Quote
Quote
ISAM is fast, but usually too limiting for most applications. Its also hopeless at related tables, requiring too many requests being fired off to the server.

I wrote a couple of ISAM database engines for my brother's epos systems back in the 1980s, but now using SQL.

Problem with ISAM is its implementation was designed when memories for servers are unbelievably small..

Later come the VSAM which is far superior which I tried to implement
under C..(under unix with semaphores for locking)

But SQL is another world in terms of relation which requires serious memory for complicated joins.. But  on the background VSAM based Btree indexes work still :)  but mostly on cached index pages on memory ..
 
I modified my original post, I was referring to pure ISAM - most SQL implementations are based on an enhanced ISAM, so technically are ISAM.

Sometimes its faster to split the multiple joins queries into seperate queries, leaving client to sort the joins, taking the load off the server.  Obviously SPs can make things nice and easy, and fast, on SQL.
Title: Re: 20 years a programmer
Post by: cem_devecioglu on 14 January 2009, 22:48:47
Quote
Quote
Quote
ISAM is fast, but usually too limiting for most applications. Its also hopeless at related tables, requiring too many requests being fired off to the server.

I wrote a couple of ISAM database engines for my brother's epos systems back in the 1980s, but now using SQL.

Problem with ISAM is its implementation was designed when memories for servers are unbelievably small..

Later come the VSAM which is far superior which I tried to implement
under C..(under unix with semaphores for locking)

But SQL is another world in terms of relation which requires serious memory for complicated joins.. But  on the background VSAM based Btree indexes work still :)  but mostly on cached index pages on memory ..
 
I modified my original post, I was referring to pure ISAM - most SQL implementations are based on an enhanced ISAM, so technically are ISAM.

Sometimes its faster to split the multiple joins queries into seperate queries, leaving client to sort the joins, taking the load off the server.  Obviously SPs can make things nice and easy, and fast, on SQL.

Actually they use B+tree index structures mostly ,regardless of the name..Only exceptions are some hashing indexes which are rarely in use..




Title: Re: 20 years a programmer
Post by: Ian_D on 14 January 2009, 23:56:12
I use VB6 a little bit, and still use good old QBasic too!  :y

Want to learn all about the PIC chips, so I ordered a few from maplin, and also got a programming board kit thing from them too. Used it a couple of times using sample files, and thats as far as ive got - just dont have enough hours in the day.  :'(

Also use notepad for basic HTML / ASP.

I've not got round to vb.net yet, but its something I will look at this year (I hope!)