Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: tunnie on 21 January 2007, 17:05:32
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Took senny out to show my mate today, he was impressed with the smoothness and power for 300 quid!
Did a lot of slow driving (he had not driven in 3 years) going around country lanes, temp never went over 100, most of the time was at 80.
Towards the end we did a 0 to 85mph blast from a Junction, then pulled off the main road, another mile or so into a village... pulled up. Got out to discover loads of steam coming out of the front grill :(
Bonnet up, and the Rad in front of the engine (one next to battery) was steaming on the right hand side (passenger) There was quite a lot coming out, but the temp never went above 100, and this is the temp is supposed to run at.
On the way home, after the engine cooled I took it on a hard run back. Overtake from 50 - 105 (private track) generally giving it stick all the way back for 11 miles. Got home, No steam :-/
The only thing i can think of was i ran the air-con for about 5 mins to test, but this was on an earlier separate run about 2 hours before we saw the seam.
The Rad directly in front of the engine, is not in good shape. The coolant has gone down slightly, but not much.
Do i need to replace the rad? :-/
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If its the same layout as the omega that rad is for the engine cooling......but im mystified why the steam has stopped....did i read in another sennie thread that you have flushed the cooling system? carnt remember but it maybe if you have.....previous owner may have stuck radweld or similar to stop a leak and the flush has dislodged it.....so maybe you might need another rad......but im sure a sennie expert will be along soon :y
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Was you able to pinpoint where the steam came from - rad itself, or bottom hose, top hose etc?
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Was you able to pinpoint where the steam came from - rad itself, or bottom hose, top hose etc?
Passenger side, not from the hose but the actual rad. Top right hand corner.
No steam from any ware else on the rad, what also puzzles me is coming back driving it hard all the way..... no steam :-/
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Over pressurising?
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Over pressurising?
What would cause that? - The header tank was heavily pressurised when i release the cap to check the level....
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Over pressurising?
What would cause that? - The header tank was heavily pressurised when i release the cap to check the level....
There would be pressure in the header tank.....and you lucky you never got scolded when you took the cap off.......never do that with a hot engine :y
Isnt there a pressure relief valve on the cap as on Omegas? :-/
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i released the cap sloowly as it was hot... as i knew the coolant would be hot.
What i don't understand is that i had no steam exiting the car on the way back after parking up :-/
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Any coolant loss?
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Any coolant loss?
Very slight, not much. Header tank still fairly full.
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when it's been running for a bit, feel all the hoses, especially the top rad hose.
If they feel rock hard when squeezed, then it's over pressuring. On the Omega V6 this is often a HBV issue, not sure if the Senny has one of these.
On many engines, though, it can signify head gasket trouble (don't wanna scare you here, it could be anything still)
I would just drive it, monitor all the levels, keep a close eye on temp, see if the hoses go hard, and see what happens.
It's probably nothing, but in the worst case - Anyone for a headgasket party? ;D
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HG nooooo! :o
Its the first time its done it, just checked the coolant level again after moving all the cars around and it had gone down further than i thought. Lost about 1/2 litre... topped it up with Red. Taking it back to uni tonight will check the levels when i get to London.
Hoses seamed soft when I flushed the coolant on Jaime's driveway, all the pipes were nice and soft even after been running for 5 mins.
I pick my mate up on the way to uni, its about a 15 min drive. I'll check the pipes when i reach his.
Temp has always been good, never over 100.
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should add 24V S6 runs hotter than the V6's.
Temp gauge goes right up to 130... 100 is in the middle of the gauge. :y
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sounds like you have a pinhole in the rad buddy, rad doesent look brilliant must admit!!! maybe best off removing it NS CHECKING AND CLEANING THE WHOLE THING!! if the matrix is heavily corroded would advise replacement or recore!!
Omegatoy
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sounds like you have a pinhole in the rad buddy, rad doesent look brilliant must admit!!! maybe best off removing it NS CHECKING AND CLEANING THE WHOLE THING!! if the matrix is heavily corroded would advise replacement or recore!!
Omegatoy
Cheers Graham :y
Thought about txting / calling you but i bet you must get annoyed with me calling you every 5 mins when something is wrong! ;D
Pin Hole leak sounds a hell of a lot better than HG! - James is on a HG mission, Rovers, Omega's Senators! ;D ;D
Anywho, i think you might be right there Graham, i think i might have several leaks around the top right of the rad.
When you say 'if the matrix is heavily corroded' your still referring to the rad? :-[ - Sorry to sound thick :-[ :-[
Thats next weekends job then sort out the rad... :)
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haha, to be honest I hope to god it's not your HG, never done a timing chain before...
I mentioned HG because it was suggested the system is pressuring? Is this the case - are the hoses hard?
the only thing that would cause the steam, is escaping coolant, so Graham's theory there sounds likely :)
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just a thought... do Carlton rads fit the Senator? I know a lot of parts are interchangeable...
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I'm sure I don't need to tell you this, but steer well clear of any coolant additives such as radweld...
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Cheers James, i was considering it. But i think for my big trip i need a propper fix.
The Rad is almost shot tbh, i was surprised it still worked. I think the recent flush has cause it to leak...
Unfortunely Jaime was right, no Senator or Carlton in my scrappy.
Although i pinched a MID if anyone wants a freebie? (Full MID, taken from '98 mini facelift)
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Cheers James, i was considering it. But i think for my big trip i need a propper fix.
The Rad is almost shot tbh, i was surprised it still worked. I think the recent flush has cause it to leak...
Unfortunely Jaime was right, no Senator or Carlton in my scrappy.
Although i pinched a MID if anyone wants a freebie? (Full MID, taken from '98 mini facelift)
I'm going to desperately want one for my project car if it's cheap/free :y
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carltonGSI AUTO is the same mate but not a manual one for obvious reasons!!!
will have an ask around!!
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With all that steam going around maybe you should change your username to Fred Dibnah. ;D
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Tunnie, measure the radiator and then compare to one out of a V6 Omega... just a thought.
I have never checked, so I have no idea of size difference.
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Tunnie, measure the radiator and then compare to one out of a V6 Omega... just a thought.
I have never checked, so I have no idea of size difference.
If that is the case, I've got a spare V6 one sat at home in it's wrapping, it's a freebie if you can use it.
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Omega rad is nothing like a Senator one.
And make sure that dam un-reliable god awful stupid power sapping viscous fan coupling is working!
And yes....if its boiled over you should remove the expansion cap carefully.....you will already have no water in the heads at this point (it will have bolied off so if they are buggered its already happened!) and it lessens the risk of the steam blowing a gasket or pipe out!
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Hoses seamed soft when I flushed the coolant on Jaime's driveway, all the pipes were nice and soft even after been running for 5 mins.
Remember, we kept the cap off to stop it from pressurising....
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Although i pinched a MID if anyone wants a freebie? (Full MID, taken from '98 mini facelift)
Generally, mini faclift MIDs are reliable ;)
Don't suppose you remembered the engine/transmission config of the donor?
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Yep, top up the coolant, and run it with the cap on for a spin and see if the pipes are going hard.
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Also, get a nice garage to put a sniffer in the coolant bottle....
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change the rad.... better safe than sorry.
also sennies always had a tendency to have the temperature rise rapidly if you did a hard run then had to stop for a bit... like hammering along the M40 from warwick and hitting virtually stationary traffic at the top of Stokenchurch hill for a few minutes.... quite often that sort of thing would see rapid temperature rises... followed by a slow fall when the fan kicked in.
memory eludes me offhand whether the 24V had the same viscous coupling fan type as the 12 valve version.....
but check it's working either way.....
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change the rad.... better safe than sorry.
also sennies always had a tendency to have the temperature rise rapidly if you did a hard run then had to stop for a bit... like hammering along the M40 from warwick and hitting virtually stationary traffic at the top of Stokenchurch hill for a few minutes.... quite often that sort of thing would see rapid temperature rises... followed by a slow fall when the fan kicked in.
memory eludes me offhand whether the 24V had the same viscous coupling fan type as the 12 valve version.....
but check it's working either way.....
Yes, crap viscous fan setup...
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Although i pinched a MID if anyone wants a freebie? (Full MID, taken from '98 mini facelift)
Generally, mini faclift MIDs are reliable ;)
Don't suppose you remembered the engine/transmission config of the donor?
2.0, Auto. '98 R Plate.
Surprised you did not see it, interior was in very good nick. I had ALL the fuses from the fuse box, plus the MID ;)
James - Damn i felt a swap coming on V6 Rad for MID :D
Graham - Many thanks, I think a replacement rad is the way to go, any bodge fixes pastes ect will not last. I don't want it springing a leak in the Swiss Alps!
Mark - Yep Viscous fan works, but not exactly free spinning! Think its on its last legs, will swap for leccy one when i replace the rad.
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don't worry about a small leak on the rad right now, you can change that before you go, concentrate on whether or not it's pressuring......
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don't worry about a small leak on the rad right now, you can change that before you go, concentrate on whether or not it's pressuring......
Seams good, did a local run to my m8's about 15 miles ish.. 60/70 mph cruise.
Got there, tested all the pipes, nice and spongey. Header tank was presurised.
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Should be fine, just change the rad, and watch the levels...
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Should be fine, just change the rad, and watch the levels...
Just did the run back to uni, can't be asked to check em now. Will do it in the morning. I suspect i have lost a little coolant
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I'd suggest a double fan setup ALA Omega V6 for your trip
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I'd suggest a double fan setup ALA Omega V6 for your trip
Some fans in the scrappy near me i think.... although the V6 ones are picked over. Think there are some 2.0 fans left
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I've got the fans.... :)
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If Graham can't help you out with a radiator, I've got a few 24v Senator one's sitting in my garage you can have one for the cost of posting.
I hope it's not your CHG that's blown, having said that, it's not really that hard to do.
Keep an eye on the coolant. Check for oily deposits in the header tank and mayo in the oil, As has been said before, get a sniffer on the header tank to see if there's exhaust gasses there, (although when the CHG went on my Senny, the sniffer didn't detect anything even though I could only get eh header tank off with a pair of pipe pliers.).
IF your CHG has blown and the oil and water is mixing, (particularly if there's water in the oil!!), then your engine will be toast in about 2000 miles. The bottom end doesn't like exposure to water and destroys the big end(s).
BUT, I have two engines at my disposal, one with new guides on it, but is unrun and one from a Carlton GSI, which was sound the last time I drove the car. We can 'arrange' something if need be!
On the subject of fans, your viscous set up probably stopped working years ago! However, if your car has/had air conditioning, then there should be an electric fan already on board. This is controled by a 'waxstat' which is screwed into the radiator about 2/3rds of the way down the tank on the near/passenger side. You could do one of two things. Purchase a lower temperature waxstat from Vx and and use that to trigger the fan at a cooler temperature, (I think you can get them to start at about 90 degrees,), or bridge the wires and run it permanently or rig it up through a switch to use manually when required.
Good luck!!
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2.0, Auto. '98 R Plate.
Surprised you did not see it, interior was in very good nick. I had ALL the fuses from the fuse box, plus the MID ;)
I did... ...but was on a Rover mission...
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2.0, Auto. '98 R Plate.
Surprised you did not see it, interior was in very good nick. I had ALL the fuses from the fuse box, plus the MID ;)
I did... ...but was on a Rover mission...
There was a brand new Espace there that had a nasty front end....
Big Rod - Thanks for the very kind offer, I may very well take you up on that. Just about to go and check the levels now, been checking the oil and coolant constantly as i have a slight oil leak too.
The washer on the sump, was squashed flat, and the 'snapped' bit was not as it should be so i either need to heat it up next time as its copper or get a new one. I have a very slow drip from that washer, but i had a slight over fill on the oil anyway.
Viscous fan still seams to be working, but i will keep checking the scrappy over the coming months for a V6 fan. Or a nice run to Derby might be order ::)
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Viscous fan :- Whe the car's hot, stick a carrot in it. If it chops it, it's ok, if it doesn't, then it's goosed!!
Oil leak:- Check down the off/driver's side of the block behind the exhaust manifold. If there's oil running down the middle of it between 3&4 cylinders, (sometimes misdiagnosed as a sump gasket leak! ::) ), then the CHG is at least on it's way out.
Electric fan:- Your car should already have an electric fan!!
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Viscous fan :- Whe the car's hot, stick a carrot in it. If it chops it, it's ok, if it doesn't, then it's goosed!!
Oil leak:- Check down the off/driver's side of the block behind the exhaust manifold. If there's oil running down the middle of it between 3&4 cylinders, (sometimes misdiagnosed as a sump gasket leak! ::) ), then the CHG is at least on it's way out.
Electric fan:- Your car should already have an electric fan!!
I was going to fit a second Electric fan, to replace the Viscous one?
The oil, i am 99% sure its the washer. I cleaned the whole sump up, after a days driving there was a drop forming at the bottom of the washer. I checked rest of the sump all good. Sump itself is in very good nick, might have had a new one.
But i am 99% sure its just the washer as i re-used the old knackered one.
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On the subject of fans, your viscous set up probably stopped working years ago! However, if your car has/had air conditioning, then there should be an electric fan already on board. This is controled by a 'waxstat' which is screwed into the radiator about 2/3rds of the way down the tank on the near/passenger side. You could do one of two things. Purchase a lower temperature waxstat from Vx and and use that to trigger the fan at a cooler temperature, (I think you can get them to start at about 90 degrees,), or bridge the wires and run it permanently or rig it up through a switch to use manually when required.
Good luck!!
It wasn't on the one we had, the fan was driven by a pressure switch in the aircon line where if the pressure got to high it turned the fan on (which cooled the refrigerant more and hence reduced the pressure).
When ours 'cooked' it was the first thing I looked for before wiring the aircon fan directly to the battery (via a fuse!)
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On the subject of fans, your viscous set up probably stopped working years ago! However, if your car has/had air conditioning, then there should be an electric fan already on board. This is controled by a 'waxstat' which is screwed into the radiator about 2/3rds of the way down the tank on the near/passenger side. You could do one of two things. Purchase a lower temperature waxstat from Vx and and use that to trigger the fan at a cooler temperature, (I think you can get them to start at about 90 degrees,), or bridge the wires and run it permanently or rig it up through a switch to use manually when required.
Good luck!!
It wasn't on the one we had, the fan was driven by a pressure switch in the aircon line where if the pressure got to high it turned the fan on (which cooled the refrigerant more and hence reduced the pressure).
When ours 'cooked' it was the first thing I looked for before wiring the aircon fan directly to the battery (via a fuse!)
I doubt i could do that on the fly like you....
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It wasn't on the one we had, the fan was driven by a pressure switch in the aircon line where if the pressure got to high it turned the fan on (which cooled the refrigerant more and hence reduced the pressure).
When ours 'cooked' it was the first thing I looked for before wiring the aircon fan directly to the battery (via a fuse!)
New one on me Mark!! :-?
The bottom line is though, that if you've already got the A/C fan there, then you don't have to fit another one.
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Rod, I can confirm the air con fans certainly do the job of cooling the radiator properly if the air con is not in use. :o
However, with the condensor in the way, the flow of air over the radiator will be noticably compromised, even more so in the heat of continental Europe.
The addition of electric fan(s) that are thermostatically controlled can only be of benefit I say.