Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: HolyCount on 13 April 2009, 22:00:27
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I have decided to have a go at MIG welding -- but know absolutely zilch about it ::)
Looking at up to 5mm steel, nothing fancy, just buggy frame and panels. Aim to try to self-teach :-?
Not looking to spend a fortune on an all singing and dancing machine as it will not get that much use if I ever master the dark art --- probably try for a second hand bit of kit from The Bay ....... What do you suggest I look for, power wise? Will be running off normal domestic supply.
Any help and advice appreciated :)
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Here you go HC. Have a look see on here :y
http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/
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Here you go HC. Have a look see on here :y
http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/
Excellent Pete :y Thanks for that -- I have bookmarked it and will no doubt score as many "hits" there as here !!!
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Been having a think. Go to some night classes & get taught properly, it doesn't cost much & it's well worth it (i did this some years back).
I think about 195 amps is about as much as you can have on a single fase (please correct if i'm wrong). You should go for as high as you can afford, small welders are ok, but it's like small engines, they have to work harder than a big one & so they burn out in time.
HTH :)
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Been having a think. Go to some night classes & get taught properly, it doesn't cost much & it's well worth it (i did this some years back).
I think about 195 amps is about as much as you can have on a single fase (please correct if i'm wrong). You should go for as high as you can afford, small welders are ok, but it's like small engines, they have to work harder than a big one & so they burn out in time.
HTH :)
Think I would tend to agree if you are welding framework on a moving vehicle. If it was just for exhausts etc then no big deal.
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Here you go HC. Have a look see on here :y
http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/
Excellent Pete :y Thanks for that -- I have bookmarked it and will no doubt score as many "hits" there as here !!!
I`m a member there too! :y
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You are going to have to grind the metal edges into a Vee before welding 5mm, and do a multipass technique, eg a root run down the bottom, a couple of filling runs, then a capping run at the top to finish off. Its actually easier to do than it sounds. Worthwhile doing as the demo does, do a sample and try and break it, to give confidence in your technique before doing it for real. :y
ken
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Been having a think. Go to some night classes & get taught properly, it doesn't cost much & it's well worth it (i did this some years back).
I think about 195 amps is about as much as you can have on a single fase (please correct if i'm wrong). You should go for as high as you can afford, small welders are ok, but it's like small engines, they have to work harder than a big one & so they burn out in time.
HTH :)
Think I would tend to agree if you are welding framework on a moving vehicle. If it was just for exhausts etc then no big deal.
Framework has all been done professionally --- I am just tinkering with welding on pedal boxes, exhaust hangers, the odd bracket and wing mirror extensions .... stuff like that.
Nearest evening course is a dozen miles away over 34 weeks and, unfortunately, current circumstances (health-wise) mean I cannot commit to arranging much in advance as I don't know, one day to the next, how things are going to be :'(
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Actually signing up for a welding course is a good idea, 'cause their equipment will be 3 phase so can easily cope with 5mm, plus if you speak nicely to th tutor, you can poss bring in your frame and do it there !. Another advantage is you get a chance to weld for real without buying another "clarke bargain" so you will learn what kind of machine to go for later.
Ken
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If you want it cheap and cheerful, an arc welder will weld that kind of stuff no problem, and its a lot easier to set up, no fiddling about with gas and wire feed etc.
Ken
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I have a little Mig that can be used with or without gas, does a good job on small stuff, ideal for any work on cars etc. :y
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I would second the advice to join an evening course. I found an introductory course local to me. 10 weeks of 2 hours in the evening each week. Cost was about 70 or 80 quid IIRC and it was great.
Could just play with all the various types of welding, with tuition when I needed it. I got through way more than 80 quid's worth of consumables so it was worth it for the practice alone.
Kevin
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Just to add, normally 130 (true!) amps or so is about the limit for machines that plug into a 13 amp socket. Larger welders will need a higher rated mains connection although you may get away with very intermittent use or use at a lower than maximum current from a 13 amp socket with regular fuse changes(!).
If money is tight and the welds aren't going to have to be pretty mma (arc) welding might be worth considering. No gases required and you'll get better penetration per buck. Aldi had mma welders for 30 quid the other week. Might well have been rubbish but perhaps worth a punt if you're on a budget?
There's more to worry about in a cheap MIG welder.. Wire feed mechanism, for example, whereas an MMA welder is just a power supply really.
Kevin
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Just to add, normally 130 (true!) amps or so is about the limit for machines that plug into a 13 amp socket. Larger welders will need a higher rated mains connection although you may get away with very intermittent use or use at a lower than maximum current from a 13 amp socket with regular fuse changes(!).
If money is tight and the welds aren't going to have to be pretty mma (arc) welding might be worth considering. No gases required and you'll get better penetration per buck. Aldi had mma welders for 30 quid the other week. Might well have been rubbish but perhaps worth a punt if you're on a budget?
There's more to worry about in a cheap MIG welder.. Wire feed mechanism, for example, whereas an MMA welder is just a power supply really.
Kevin
This is why mine comes from the 30amp cooker feed ;)
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are you after a gasless mig or one with a bottle?, only ive got a gasless one i`ll be flogging & ive only used it twice, i bought it as my gas one was kept at work, but now im unemployed its at home with me again so the gasless will have to go :y
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Just to add, normally 130 (true!) amps or so is about the limit for machines that plug into a 13 amp socket. Larger welders will need a higher rated mains connection although you may get away with very intermittent use or use at a lower than maximum current from a 13 amp socket with regular fuse changes(!).
If money is tight and the welds aren't going to have to be pretty mma (arc) welding might be worth considering. No gases required and you'll get better penetration per buck. Aldi had mma welders for 30 quid the other week. Might well have been rubbish but perhaps worth a punt if you're on a budget?
There's more to worry about in a cheap MIG welder.. Wire feed mechanism, for example, whereas an MMA welder is just a power supply really.
Kevin
I gather mma arc welding is a little more difficult to master -- the rod being hand held and it's an art to feed it fast enough without touching the work with it !!!!!!
Alf ---- with the gasless -- is that the one that uses a fluxed wire ??? Tell me more :)
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If you go for a Mig it might be worth looking the gasless type if you intend working outside as the gas can quite easily blow out with a bit of wind, have you thought about a small arc/electric type ! just a thought.
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Get a gas MIG.....the Clarke ones are about the best budget ones (unlike SIP which are totaly shite with crap wire feeds).
Its easy to convert to gasless (but you never will) by swapping the polarity round although in reality, I have never had an issue outside because the flow of gas around the tip where you are welding normaly takes some shifting and the cored wire suffers similar issues and generally poorer joints.
135amp is the peak off a 13A socket and even then keep some spare 13A fuses about as they do fail due to the strike stress ageing them.
I personaly would avoid the non domestic socket based ones unless you really need much higher current as they are very limiting for general hobby use in general
Get an auto dimming mask and if you can 'obtain' a pub CO2 cylinder for general mild steel work.
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Get a gas MIG.....the Clarke ones are about the best budget ones (unlike SIP which are totaly shite with crap wire feeds).
Its easy to convert to gasless (but you never will) by swapping the polarity round although in reality, I have never had an issue outside because the flow of gas around the tip where you are welding normaly takes some shifting and the cored wire suffers similar issues and generally poorer joints.
135amp is the peak off a 13A socket and even then keep some spare 13A fuses about as they do fail due to the strike stress ageing them.
I personaly would avoid the non domestic socket based ones unless you really need much higher current as they are very limiting for general hobby use in general
Get an auto dimming mask and if you can 'obtain' a pub CO2 cylinder for general mild steel work.
i use a 130amp mig have used it for years on cars gates bkts and all sorts of steel . even welded 5mm box steel frames it welded with no probs . and the frames are still together and going strong :D :D
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Just to add, normally 130 (true!) amps or so is about the limit for machines that plug into a 13 amp socket. Larger welders will need a higher rated mains connection although you may get away with very intermittent use or use at a lower than maximum current from a 13 amp socket with regular fuse changes(!).
If money is tight and the welds aren't going to have to be pretty mma (arc) welding might be worth considering. No gases required and you'll get better penetration per buck. Aldi had mma welders for 30 quid the other week. Might well have been rubbish but perhaps worth a punt if you're on a budget?
There's more to worry about in a cheap MIG welder.. Wire feed mechanism, for example, whereas an MMA welder is just a power supply really.
Kevin
I gather mma arc welding is a little more difficult to master -- the rod being hand held and it's an art to feed it fast enough without touching the work with it !!!!!!
Alf ---- with the gasless -- is that the one that uses a fluxed wire ??? Tell me more :)
i know the wire is impregnated with something i assumed it creats its own Co2 or something like that, :-/ there seems to be a difference of opinion as to what you should go for, im only sticking with the gas one because thats what ive been used to for about 30 years :o, mind you as MDTM says the gasless can be converted over without much hassle but when i used it it was fine as gasless, the first ever mig i had was an old live tip one which was a bit iffy to use & i soon got rid of that :D
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just to add the pub Co2 bottles are fine but definately better with the Co2/argon mix but less available on the cheap :y
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just to add the pub Co2 bottles are fine but definately better with the Co2/argon mix but less available on the cheap :y
Yep, but for general use, wind the gas flow up (on a pub cylinder this is not a big issue)
I use Argon for Aluminium but, the gas is not cheap!
Its easier to convert a gas mig to flux cored gasless than the other way round :y
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Just to add, normally 130 (true!) amps or so is about the limit for machines that plug into a 13 amp socket. Larger welders will need a higher rated mains connection although you may get away with very intermittent use or use at a lower than maximum current from a 13 amp socket with regular fuse changes(!).
If money is tight and the welds aren't going to have to be pretty mma (arc) welding might be worth considering. No gases required and you'll get better penetration per buck. Aldi had mma welders for 30 quid the other week. Might well have been rubbish but perhaps worth a punt if you're on a budget?
There's more to worry about in a cheap MIG welder.. Wire feed mechanism, for example, whereas an MMA welder is just a power supply really.
Kevin
I gather mma arc welding is a little more difficult to master -- the rod being hand held and it's an art to feed it fast enough without touching the work with it !!!!!!
Alf ---- with the gasless -- is that the one that uses a fluxed wire ??? Tell me more :)
i know the wire is impregnated with something i assumed it creats its own Co2 or something like that, :-/ there seems to be a difference of opinion as to what you should go for, im only sticking with the gas one because thats what ive been used to for about 30 years :o, mind you as MDTM says the gasless can be converted over without much hassle but when i used it it was fine as gasless, the first ever mig i had was an old live tip one which was a bit iffy to use & i soon got rid of that :D
gas less wire is crap and dear to buy . you wont get better than gas there are loads of different gases . but pub gas is ok for car welding but it spits a bit to much :o
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The spitting is usualy the rust etc so happens on all gases.
I know when I did the lambda bosses on Mick Dundees car (using pub gas) and about 90 amp (1.6mm steel on the exhaust) there was no spitting at all just that nice fizz when you have the feed set right and the current spot on. :y
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The spitting is usualy the rust etc so happens on all gases.
I know when I did the lambda bosses on Mick Dundees car (using pub gas) and about 90 amp (1.6mm steel on the exhaust) there was no spitting at all just that nice fizz when you have the feed set right and the current spot on. :y
ive been spoilt im using cougar 20 nice clean weld off it :y
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ive always found that no matter what mig welder you use, they always rely on the job being clean & free from paint,rust or oil/grease ;)
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ive always found that no matter what mig welder you use, they always rely on the job being clean & free from paint,rust or oil/grease ;)
cougar 20 is a gas mix of argon carbon dioxide it burns hotter at the arc gives better welds :y
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It shouldn't burn at all!
I know a man with a very large bottle of Nitrogen (a forum member on here).
Its just to bloody large to move in order to get a loan!
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It shouldn't burn at all!
I know a man with a very large bottle of Nitrogen (a forum member on here).
Its just to bloody large to move in order to get a loan!
sorry i know the gas dont burn its a shield but gases do make differance to welding .but on cars it dont matter so much :-[ :-[
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Hmmm I think I know where I could get some Argon if I got one.
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I gather mma arc welding is a little more difficult to master -- the rod being hand held and it's an art to feed it fast enough without touching the work with it !!!!!!
I found striking the arc took some practice - all too easy for the rod to stick to the work and short until you get the hang of it - best to swipe the electrode over a corner of the work to start the arc. Perhaps not as easy to see what's going on as MIG due to the smoke and flux all over the place. My first weld looked like the dog's breakfast until I chipped off all the flux and was then surprised to see such a clean weld underneath.
Certainly wouldn't fancy welding anything thin with it. I think I was welding 4mm steel, but for chassis box sections, etc, it'd do the job. MIG is the best all round option without a doubt though.
Kevin
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Thank you all for the advice -- certainly given me a bit to ponder on :-?