Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 16 April 2009, 14:21:35
-
Getting on for 2000 posts...............here at OOf .......and I have enjoyed it.
Most of the guys and girls are great...........and overall TB and his admin team have done a great job................they seem to believe in "light touch regulation".....are generally not judgemental......and believe in just letting us get on with it.
O.K............... we all know that there were a few problems with a couple of members last night ................but OOF is still a good place to be.
But I do feel that the admin team has lost it's way a little today. :-/
The admin team has said............and I quote.
"just so everybody is aware .....................I will be putting a monitor on certain people's PM boxes......................This gives me the ability to view PRIVATE MESSAGES."
SorryTB .......but this is not acceptable to me ........and I hope not to other independent OOF thinkers either.
These messages are by their very nature ............well ......PRIVATE.
We all speak at length on this forum ................about "freedom of speech"....and the threat of big brother...............and the erosion of our civil liberties.
This invasion of our private communications ...................is something that I would expect to find in the Romania of Nichalai Cercescu............or the U.S.S.R. of Stalin. :-/ :-/ :-/
So come on TB...................in my opinion ..............you are one of the good guys ..............it's really best not to go down this route.
I think that this would be a good opportunity.........................for the admin team to tell us all ..............................that they have no interest in our private affairs .....................just as we have no interest in theirs. :y :y :y :y :y
-
A fair point. A lot was said in haste last night, some of it by people who should know better.
-
I must agree with you Optimist, although I do really understand why the Admins did resort to this given the situation that arose, and I praise them for their action. It was sorely needed.
But, having said that private does mean private, and the Forum should have nothing to fear from what members put in their PM's.
As I stated yesterday we expect to enjoy the freedom of free speech and opinion on this site and in the UK as a whole. It is when certain individuals abuse and insult that "gift" in public on the open Forum that the problems arise. What is said privately should not worry anyone. ;) ;)
-
I hear what you are all saying.....
But.
The Admins have done something to stop all this Madness that is happening of late.
I for one love a laugh and a joke and have spent hours on here since joining over 2 years ago, meeting some lovely people and hopefully some more. I have made friends with people as yet I have not met.
It really comes down to us as Members, if we can't behave like grown ups it will ruin this Once Brilliant Forum, then we will all be at a loss.
Hotel21 is one of the nicest Blokes I have ever come across (I am not arse licking in anyway) and that would be a great loss to lose him too.
I am sure none of us want this Forum to close or finish so lets pull together and let it carry on like it has been doing for the last two and a half years :y
Cheers
Daz :)
-
In the world of IT nothing is private. I would suggest that users get used to that idea irrespective of the PM issue. No IT system can run without Systems Administrators who need access to all areas. Perhaps un-beknown to most users here, the concept of 'private' is heavily loaded with caveats.
There are some systems where 'private' means what you would expect such as your PIN number at your bank although the writer of the program that stores it would be able to de-crypt it.
My take on the 'private' of PMs is that they are not posted on the forums - i.e. not 'public'.
Personally I have had access to databases of personal information when writing back-office applications and have developed a mindset of 'not looking'. It takes some doing and it is voluntary but if I didn't have the choice then I could not debug real-life computer systems.
I have no qualms about the Admins seeing any PMs and don't see any security or social risks as I bear that in mind when writing.
HTH
P.S. I notice they are Personal Messages, not Private Messages
-
Did something happen last night, i'd forgotten all about it.
-
Did something happen last night, i'd forgotten all about it.
That's because I got you drunk first ::)
-
I do feel that drastic measures would only be taken if necessary - and it appears that in this case it was. I read it that only "certain" peoples PM's were being monitored so most should have nothing to be concerned about, surely?
I am a firm believer that when someone provides a service/resource, as the Admins do this forum, they hold the right to run it as they see fit and I do not believe that we are in a position to dispute that, whether the decisions appear to be well though out or not.
I have never run a forum but can imagine that it takes some doing, and for that alone I think the Admins deserve a large medal :y
Am I barking up the wrong tree? :-/
-
Did something happen last night, i'd forgotten all about it.
That's because I got you drunk first ::)
Whatever I was drinking last night gave me a sore bum this morning :o
-
Did something happen last night, i'd forgotten all about it.
That's because I got you drunk first ::)
Whatever I was drinking last night gave me a sore bum this morning :o
Did you find the fiver I slipped in your back pocket? ;D
-
Did something happen last night, i'd forgotten all about it.
That's because I got you drunk first ::)
Whatever I was drinking last night gave me a sore bum this morning :o
I hope that was from just drinking!! ::) ::) ::) ;D ;D ;D ;)
-
Did something happen last night, i'd forgotten all about it.
That's because I got you drunk first ::)
Whatever I was drinking last night gave me a sore bum this morning :o
Did you find the five incher I slipped in your back door? ;D
:o
I wouldn't have even felt that ::)
-
Did something happen last night, i'd forgotten all about it.
That's because I got you drunk first ::)
Whatever I was drinking last night gave me a sore bum this morning :o
I hope that was from just drinking!! ::) ::) ::) ;D ;D ;D ;)
no. looknee stayed over ;D ;D ;D ;D
-
i agree to everything that has been said here by everyone. Yes i do find it wrong to monitor and view things which are PRIVATE but at the same time, can understand why it has been used as a way to restore order. I have been apart of other forums and communities before and still am, and some of which i am fairly high up on so i can understand why it is the admins have take such measures.
(slap me if none of this makes sense :-/ )
-
Did something happen last night, i'd forgotten all about it.
That's because I got you drunk first ::)
Whatever I was drinking last night gave me a sore bum this morning :o
I hope that was from just drinking!! ::) ::) ::) ;D ;D ;D ;)
no. looknee stayed over ;D ;D ;D ;D
lol ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;)
-
Did something happen last night, i'd forgotten all about it.
That's because I got you drunk first ::)
Whatever I was drinking last night gave me a sore bum this morning :o
Did you find the five incher I slipped in your back door? ;D
:o
I wouldn't have even felt that ::)
Where's me change? :(
-
Not last night as I was Arnie sitting :-[
So the tart must be two timing me >:( :D
-
I hear what you are all saying.....
But.
The Admins have done something to stop all this Madness that is happening of late.
I for one love a laugh and a joke and have spent hours on here since joining over 2 years ago, meeting some lovely people and hopefully some more. I have made friends with people as yet I have not met.
It really comes down to us as Members, if we can't behave like grown ups it will ruin this Once Brilliant Forum, then we will all be at a loss.
Hotel21 is one of the nicest Blokes I have ever come across (I am not arse licking in anyway) and that would be a great loss to lose him too.
I am sure none of us want this Forum to close or finish so lets pull together and let it carry on like it has been doing for the last two and a half years :y
Cheers
Daz :)
As usual Daz you have managed to put into words what I was thinking. Brown nosing aside it is very easy to underestimate that huge amount of time that administering the forum must involve, aside from the burden of judgmental issues when things get close to the knuckle. (not that I have a clue who or what this particular thing was about).
Lets not take it for granted hey :) :y
-
Not last night as I was Arnie sitting :-[
So the tart must be two timing me >:( :D
Its made round to go round old chap ;D
-
Not last night as I was Arnie sitting :-[
So the tart must be two timing me >:( :D
We were PMing each other late into the night :P :P
-
I hear what you are all saying.....
But.
The Admins have done something to stop all this Madness that is happening of late.
I for one love a laugh and a joke and have spent hours on here since joining over 2 years ago, meeting some lovely people and hopefully some more. I have made friends with people as yet I have not met.
It really comes down to us as Members, if we can't behave like grown ups it will ruin this Once Brilliant Forum, then we will all be at a loss.
Hotel21 is one of the nicest Blokes I have ever come across (I am not arse licking in anyway) and that would be a great loss to lose him too.
I am sure none of us want this Forum to close or finish so lets pull together and let it carry on like it has been doing for the last two and a half years :y
Cheers
Daz :)
But knowing sometimes personal and intimate details(although not in my case) :will not stop "outbursts" .......................on OOF
There is absolutely NO REASON............for the Admin team to know what is in our PM Box..........NONE. :-/ :-/
-
I do feel that drastic measures would only be taken if necessary - and it appears that in this case it was. I read it that only "certain" peoples PM's were being monitored so most should have nothing to be concerned about, surely?
I am a firm believer that when someone provides a service/resource, as the Admins do this forum, they hold the right to run it as they see fit and I do not believe that we are in a position to dispute that, whether the decisions appear to be well though out or not.
I have never run a forum but can imagine that it takes some doing, and for that alone I think the Admins deserve a large medal :y
Am I barking up the wrong tree? :-/
You may be one of the "certain people" yourself Platty.So may any forum member. :-/
-
read my messages as i have nothing to hide, im not cybering anyone in private, yet!! ;)
-
As I have no friends, my inbox is always empty. My out box is always full, but no-one replies.
-
Not last night as I was Arnie sitting :-[
So the tart must be two timing me >:( :D
We were PMing each other late into the night :P :P
I know, we were reading them ;D ;D
-
I hear what you are all saying.....
But.
The Admins have done something to stop all this Madness that is happening of late.
I for one love a laugh and a joke and have spent hours on here since joining over 2 years ago, meeting some lovely people and hopefully some more. I have made friends with people as yet I have not met.
It really comes down to us as Members, if we can't behave like grown ups it will ruin this Once Brilliant Forum, then we will all be at a loss.
Hotel21 is one of the nicest Blokes I have ever come across (I am not arse licking in anyway) and that would be a great loss to lose him too.
I am sure none of us want this Forum to close or finish so lets pull together and let it carry on like it has been doing for the last two and a half years :y
Cheers
Daz :)
But knowing sometimes personal and intimate details(although not in my case) :will not stop "outbursts" .......................on OOF
There is absolutely NO REASON............for the Admin team to know what is in our PM Box..........NONE. :-/ :-/
The PM facility is an adjunct of the forum. The forum is "owned" and run by the admins. By extrapolation, they also own the PM system and thus have every right to view the boxes. Common sense would dictate that such actions would only take place if something was being said which would bring the forum into disrepute (for example, if someone was sending obscene or abusive messages to other members). The main purpose of the PM facility is to enable members to exchange information which would otherwise clog up the boards. If you want to send intimate and private details to another member, you should use email.
-
Not last night as I was Arnie sitting :-[
So the tart must be two timing me >:( :D
We were PMing each other late into the night :P :P
I know, we were reading them ;D ;D
I didn't mean it Mark, you're quite nice really :-*
-
I do feel that drastic measures would only be taken if necessary - and it appears that in this case it was. I read it that only "certain" peoples PM's were being monitored so most should have nothing to be concerned about, surely?
I am a firm believer that when someone provides a service/resource, as the Admins do this forum, they hold the right to run it as they see fit and I do not believe that we are in a position to dispute that, whether the decisions appear to be well though out or not.
I have never run a forum but can imagine that it takes some doing, and for that alone I think the Admins deserve a large medal :y
Am I barking up the wrong tree? :-/
You may be one of the "certain people" yourself Platty.So may any forum member. :-/
I don't think the Admins have enough time to be looking at loads of PM's do you? they were talking about the people that were involved in the trouble. As not nice PM's were sent as well as on the open forum.
I certainly am not getting into an arguement about anything but an old saying comes to mind. "If people don't like it they know where the door is" that really is top and tail of it in my view. :y
-
I hear what you are all saying.....
But.
The Admins have done something to stop all this Madness that is happening of late.
I for one love a laugh and a joke and have spent hours on here since joining over 2 years ago, meeting some lovely people and hopefully some more. I have made friends with people as yet I have not met.
It really comes down to us as Members, if we can't behave like grown ups it will ruin this Once Brilliant Forum, then we will all be at a loss.
Hotel21 is one of the nicest Blokes I have ever come across (I am not arse licking in anyway) and that would be a great loss to lose him too.
I am sure none of us want this Forum to close or finish so lets pull together and let it carry on like it has been doing for the last two and a half years :y
Cheers
Daz :)
But knowing sometimes personal and intimate details(although not in my case) :will not stop "outbursts" .......................on OOF
There is absolutely NO REASON............for the Admin team to know what is in our PM Box..........NONE. :-/ :-/
I disagree. If folks start using/abusing the "Personal message" system the Admins have every right to monitor, delete, and ban.. if required.. as they see fit. It is "Their" site .. NOT "ours" ... there is no such thing as a "Private message".
What you should be thinking is very simple ....... just why do some idiots make the Admins have to go to such extremes ???. Don't have a go at the Admins.. support them as they are the ones that keep the forum going ... and they have enough to do without having to monitor PM's
Some folks seem to think that the forum is a place they can do what they want, others that it is some sort of democracy. It is neither.
And IMHO the majority like it that way.
Thank you to every Admin.
-
I hear what you are all saying.....
But.
The Admins have done something to stop all this Madness that is happening of late.
I for one love a laugh and a joke and have spent hours on here since joining over 2 years ago, meeting some lovely people and hopefully some more. I have made friends with people as yet I have not met.
It really comes down to us as Members, if we can't behave like grown ups it will ruin this Once Brilliant Forum, then we will all be at a loss.
Hotel21 is one of the nicest Blokes I have ever come across (I am not arse licking in anyway) and that would be a great loss to lose him too.
I am sure none of us want this Forum to close or finish so lets pull together and let it carry on like it has been doing for the last two and a half years :y
Cheers
Daz :)
But knowing sometimes personal and intimate details(although not in my case) :will not stop "outbursts" .......................on OOF
There is absolutely NO REASON............for the Admin team to know what is in our PM Box..........NONE. :-/ :-/
The PM facility is an adjunct of the forum. The forum is "owned" and run by the admins. By extrapolation, they also own the PM system and thus have every right to view the boxes. Common sense would dictate that such actions would only take place if something was being said which would bring the forum into disrepute (for example, if someone was sending obscene or abusive messages to other members). The main purpose of the PM facility is to enable members to exchange information which would otherwise clog up the boards. If you want to send intimate and private details to another member, you should use email.
In Utopia perhaps..............but in reality Nickbat ................good old human nature means that people do all sorts of things ..............for all sorts of reasons..............sometimes because they can. :'( :'( :y
-
I would assume only a couple of boxes were monitored and the comment was more of a be careful rather than a monitor - think how much work it would be.
That said there is information in mine which would cause havok if it got out but I would trust the Admins not to look - especially as most of them are from TB and are about setting up my webspace and email.
As to why they were chosen - possibly due to PMs to people who reported them, or because they were known trouble makers.
I would say that mine, NickBat, Optimist60, STMOs and Entwoods PMs were NOT monitored at all.
And probably only monitored LooKnees for a laugh!
As to the start of this - I think the person involved threw teddies away before after a big slanging match, pretty sure he went away for about a year, this will happen again I think.
This forum was set up BTW for our chance not to be over moderated, we do need to respect that and not push it.
-
But I do feel that the admin team has lost it's way a little today. :-/
The admin team has said............and I quote.
"just so everybody is aware .....................I will be putting a monitor on certain people's PM boxes......................This gives me the ability to view PRIVATE MESSAGES."
I am sure if this did happen that it was only a threat and that all but one or two would be unaffected.
-
I hear what you are all saying.....
But.
The Admins have done something to stop all this Madness that is happening of late.
I for one love a laugh and a joke and have spent hours on here since joining over 2 years ago, meeting some lovely people and hopefully some more. I have made friends with people as yet I have not met.
It really comes down to us as Members, if we can't behave like grown ups it will ruin this Once Brilliant Forum, then we will all be at a loss.
Hotel21 is one of the nicest Blokes I have ever come across (I am not arse licking in anyway) and that would be a great loss to lose him too.
I am sure none of us want this Forum to close or finish so lets pull together and let it carry on like it has been doing for the last two and a half years :y
Cheers
Daz :)
But knowing sometimes personal and intimate details(although not in my case) :will not stop "outbursts" .......................on OOF
There is absolutely NO REASON............for the Admin team to know what is in our PM Box..........NONE. :-/ :-/
I disagree. If folks start using/abusing the "Personal message" system the Admins have every right to monitor, delete, and ban.. if required.. as they see fit. It is "Their" site .. NOT "ours" ... there is no such thing as a "Private message".
What you should be thinking is very simple ....... just why do some idiots make the Admins have to go to such extremes ???. Don't have a go at the Admins.. support them as they are the ones that keep the forum going ... and they have enough to do without having to monitor PM's
Some folks seem to think that the forum is a place they can do what they want, others that it is some sort of democracy. It is neither.
And IMHO the majority like it that way.
Thank you to every Admin.
Read the first part of my post again Entwood.................and you'll see that I do .....................I just don't agree with the idea that anything that I take to be private ......is in fact not.............As Lizzie wrote earlier in this thread............There is nothing to fear from what members say to each other in private.
-
I would assume only a couple of boxes were monitored and the comment was more of a be careful rather than a monitor - think how much work it would be.
That said there is information in mine which would cause havok if it got out but I would trust the Admins not to look - especially as most of them are from TB and are about setting up my webspace and email.
As to why they were chosen - possibly due to PMs to people who reported them, or because they were known trouble makers.
I would say that mine, NickBat, Optimist60, STMOs and Entwoods PMs were NOT monitored at all.
And probably only monitored LooKnees for a laugh!
As to the start of this - I think the person involved threw teddies away before after a big slanging match, pretty sure he went away for about a year, this will happen again I think.
This forum was set up BTW for our chance not to be over moderated, we do need to respect that and not push it.
There is nothing very interesting in mine Martin..................just on a point of principle really.......It's not necessary .......the thin end of the wedge. :-/ :y
-
In Utopia perhaps..............but in reality Nickbat ................good old human nature means that people do all sorts of things ..............for all sorts of reasons..............sometimes because they can. :'( :'( :y
Blimey! If that's true I would like the Admin team to let me into the secret of how they have managed to negotiate themselves 48 hour days. ;)
I spend what I consider to be a fairly large proportion of my life here and I don't by a large margin read all the posts in the public areas. Do we honestly believe the admin team have enough time on their hands to, in addition to viewing and moderating what is posted in public, go thumbing through people's Inboxes just because they are nosey?
As said, the PM system is provided by the forum and the admins have a responsibility to ensure it is not being abused.
If you can't live with that use google mail, yahoo, etc. instead but be aware that they are also monitoring their service to ensure it is not being abused!
Kevin
-
Couple of thing's for you to think about.
TB did'nt have to tell us that any PM service may be monitored.
As well as PM's there is the option of MSN, Skype or YIM.
Now consider this. If you were Admin and things got out of hand in public, do you.
A. Montitor PM's and say nothing.
B. Mention PM Monitoring and hope that people take heed.
C. Turn off the PM system completly.
D. Shut the chat room for a week and let everyone work out what they used to do when they had some spare time.
F. Shut the chat room permantly and make it a boring Q&A site
G. Shut the forum and stop all the hassle and free up your own free time.
-
In Utopia perhaps..............but in reality Nickbat ................good old human nature means that people do all sorts of things ..............for all sorts of reasons..............sometimes because they can. :'( :'( :y
Blimey! If that's true I would like the Admin team to let me into the secret of how they have managed to negotiate themselves 48 hour days. ;)
I spend what I consider to be a fairly large proportion of my life here and I don't by a large margin read all the posts in the public areas. Do we honestly believe the admin team have enough time on their hands to, in addition to viewing and moderating what is posted in public, go thumbing through people's Inboxes just because they are nosey?
As said, the PM system is provided by the forum and the admins have a responsibility to ensure it is not being abused.
If you can't live with that use google mail, yahoo, etc. instead but be aware that they are also monitoring their service to ensure it is not being abused!
Kevin
True Kevin, as is GCHQ at Cheltenham and other USA installations constantly!! ::) ::) ;) ;)
-
Couple of thing's for you to think about.
TB did'nt have to tell us that any PM service may be monitored.
As well as PM's there is the option of MSN, Skype or YIM.
Now consider this. If you were Admin and things got out of hand in public, do you.
A. Montitor PM's and say nothing.
B. Mention PM Monitoring and hope that people take heed.
C. Turn off the PM system completly.
D. Shut the chat room for a week and let everyone work out what they used to do when they had some spare time.
F. Shut the chat room permantly and make it a boring Q&A site
G. Shut the forum and stop all the hassle and free up your own free time.
Or, in your case, kill yourself. :D
-
just stop & think for one moment oofers, this is ridiculous as its taken a couple of non descript chavs [or so it seems] to upset the majority of us dedicated [or fanatical in some cases ;D]nearly to the point of total OOF breakdown, it reminds me of the A.M c,b radio days where some plebs got hold of a cheap c,b radio & made a complete nuisance of themselves by deliberately upsetting others, call it boredom or call it infantile its the sad way some get their kicks, perhaps a yellow/red card system could be instigated so after one warning you know that your next is your last, anyhow thats my 2 bobs worth :( :(
-
Couple of thing's for you to think about.
TB did'nt have to tell us that any PM service may be monitored.
As well as PM's there is the option of MSN, Skype or YIM.
Now consider this. If you were Admin and things got out of hand in public, do you.
A. Montitor PM's and say nothing.
B. Mention PM Monitoring and hope that people take heed.
C. Turn off the PM system completly.
D. Shut the chat room for a week and let everyone work out what they used to do when they had some spare time.
F. Shut the chat room permantly and make it a boring Q&A site
G. Shut the forum and stop all the hassle and free up your own free time.
Or H....make sure that all PM boxes are private and confidential Skruntie.
So that forum members can feel free to write what they wish without being concerned who else is reading it.It's called privacy. :-* :-* :-*
-
just stop & think for one moment oofers, this is ridiculous as its taken a couple of non descript chavs [or so it seems] to upset the majority of us dedicated [or fanatical in some cases ;D]nearly to the point of total OOF breakdown, it reminds me of the A.M c,b radio days where some plebs got hold of a cheap c,b radio & made a complete nuisance of themselves by deliberately upsetting others, call it boredom or call it infantile its the sad way some get their kicks, perhaps a yellow/red card system could be instigated so after one warning you know that your next is your last, anyhow thats my 2 bobs worth :( :(
Enough of the insults!
Thats what started all this off in the first place :y
-
You may be one of the "certain people" yourself Platty.So may any forum member. :-/
I could well be, but I doubt it. Even if I was I feel that they are free to look all they wish as they provide me with that service in the first place.
That is my entire point - we are here out of choice, not obligation.
-
Or H....make sure that all PM boxes are private and confidential Skruntie.
So that forum members can feel free to write what they wish without being concerned who else is reading it.It's called privacy. :-* :-* :-*
PM does NOT mean "Private" or "Confidential" ... there are no such concepts on the internet, and that is something a lot of folks don't realise. Everything you do, every keypress and mouse click, has an effect somewhere that is recorded or logged, along with a great deal more information than you realise.
If you want a "private" conversation ... DO NOT have it on the internet, and that includes SKYPE.
Back on topic, A forum owner could be taken to court if bullying or worse was taking place in PM's and they did nothing about it, and "electronic bullying" is becoming a problem in the real world.
The Admins/owners must have the right to read everything that is put on "their" site, be it public or not. If you/we/I don't like the way they do this we have one simple option.
And I'm not leaving .... :)
-
Or H....make sure that all PM boxes are private and confidential Skruntie.
So that forum members can feel free to write what they wish without being concerned who else is reading it.It's called privacy. :-* :-* :-*
PM does NOT mean "Private" or "Confidential" ... there are no such concepts on the internet, and that is something a lot of folks don't realise. Everything you do, every keypress and mouse click, has an effect somewhere that is recorded or logged, along with a great deal more information than you realise.
If you want a "private" conversation ... DO NOT have it on the internet, and that includes SKYPE.
Back on topic, A forum owner could be taken to court if bullying or worse was taking place in PM's and they did nothing about it, and "electronic bullying" is becoming a problem in the real world.
The Admins/owners must have the right to read everything that is put on "their" site, be it public or not. If you/we/I don't like the way they do this we have one simple option.
And I'm not leaving .... :)
That's very good to hear Entwood!! :D :D :D ;)
-
Couple of thing's for you to think about.
TB did'nt have to tell us that any PM service may be monitored.
As well as PM's there is the option of MSN, Skype or YIM.
Now consider this. If you were Admin and things got out of hand in public, do you.
A. Montitor PM's and say nothing.
B. Mention PM Monitoring and hope that people take heed.
C. Turn off the PM system completly.
D. Shut the chat room for a week and let everyone work out what they used to do when they had some spare time.
F. Shut the chat room permantly and make it a boring Q&A site
G. Shut the forum and stop all the hassle and free up your own free time.
Or H....make sure that all PM boxes are private and confidential Skruntie.
So that forum members can feel free to write what they wish without being concerned who else is reading it.It's called privacy. :-* :-* :-*
Which is why I started the thread with this.
Couple of thing's for you to think about.
TB did'nt have to tell us that any PM service may be monitored.
As well as PM's there is the option of MSN, Skype or YIM.
and then if you read the rest of what I put as "If YOU were"
-
I do feel that drastic measures would only be taken if necessary - and it appears that in this case it was. I read it that only "certain" peoples PM's were being monitored so most should have nothing to be concerned about, surely?
I am a firm believer that when someone provides a service/resource, as the Admins do this forum, they hold the right to run it as they see fit and I do not believe that we are in a position to dispute that, whether the decisions appear to be well though out or not.
I have never run a forum but can imagine that it takes some doing, and for that alone I think the Admins deserve a large medal :y
Am I barking up the wrong tree? :-/
You may be one of the "certain people" yourself Platty.So may any forum member. :-/
I don't think the Admins have enough time to be looking at loads of PM's do you? they were talking about the people that were involved in the trouble. As not nice PM's were sent as well as on the open forum.
I certainly am not getting into an arguement about anything but an old saying comes to mind. "If people don't like it they know where the door is" that really is top and tail of it in my view. :y
yeah. i did recieve one thanking me personaly for getting gen chat shut down.
-
Couple of thing's for you to think about.
TB did'nt have to tell us that any PM service may be monitored.
As well as PM's there is the option of MSN, Skype or YIM.
Now consider this. If you were Admin and things got out of hand in public, do you.
A. Montitor PM's and say nothing.
B. Mention PM Monitoring and hope that people take heed.
C. Turn off the PM system completly.
D. Shut the chat room for a week and let everyone work out what they used to do when they had some spare time.
F. Shut the chat room permantly and make it a boring Q&A site
G. Shut the forum and stop all the hassle and free up your own free time.
After the recent antics on the forum,option G must be very tempting.
I am always banging on about freedom of expression and the right to live free from big brother type interference etc; but all freedoms in any society/community must carry responsibilities with them,and if the level of responsibility drops below certain standards then it is inevitable that the level of freedom will at some point do the same.
I do think the admin team do have the right if they feel it necessary to monitor all activity of "combatants",this is not an arena where we have certain rights per se,the admins are free to make whatever rules they wish,and if we dont like it we can leave.
I think we have been accustomed to the light touch approach and have been somewhat shocked by its sudden curtailment,but that was perhaps the point.The freedoms we have enjoyed on here are very refreshing in this control freak society in which we live,but if we insist on behaving like young children in a playground then we cant really complain about being treated in the same way.
I hope that we have collectively learnt a lesson,otherwise I fear the forum could have to change from what we all know and enjoy.
Next time someone is tempted to start a riot on the forum I hope they can stop and think what it must be like for the people who put the time and effort in for free to run the show,who then have to put even more time and effort in to stopping petty arguments ruining the whole thing for everyone.
Finally I hope that someday I will learn how to convey what I want to say in far fewer words. :-[ :)
-
The PM facility is an adjunct of the forum. The forum is "owned" and run by the admins. By extrapolation, they also own the PM system and thus have every right to view the boxes. Common sense would dictate that such actions would only take place if something was being said which would bring the forum into disrepute (for example, if someone was sending obscene or abusive messages to other members). The main purpose of the PM facility is to enable members to exchange information which would otherwise clog up the boards. If you want to send intimate and private details to another member, you should use email.
So Nickbat. An analogy
Lets say that a wealthy victorian gentleman owns a large house with plenty of servants.
He has ,by your way of thinking ,every right to go into one of the servants rooms,at any time he likes ,be it day or night.
He then has every right to read the servants letters and go through her private things .He also presumably has the right to insist that her door must be unlocked 24 hours a day.
Oh purlease ,we do not live in the 19th century anymore. People have certain rights to privacy these days. :-/ :-/
-
Hasn't this been done to death yet?
The admin team have had the decency to make us aware of the fact that, under the current circumstances, they reserve the right to look into PMs.
Some (most) of us don't appear to mind.
Some of us do.
Those who do, aren't forced to use PMs, or the Forum at all, for that matter.
Kevin
-
What did I miss last night :-?
-
What did I miss last night :-?
Man U and Arsenal both won.
-
is this still goin on??? :-?
-
The PM facility is an adjunct of the forum. The forum is "owned" and run by the admins. By extrapolation, they also own the PM system and thus have every right to view the boxes. Common sense would dictate that such actions would only take place if something was being said which would bring the forum into disrepute (for example, if someone was sending obscene or abusive messages to other members). The main purpose of the PM facility is to enable members to exchange information which would otherwise clog up the boards. If you want to send intimate and private details to another member, you should use email.
So Nickbat. An analogy
Lets say that a wealthy victorian gentleman owns a large house with plenty of servants.
He has ,by your way of thinking ,every right to go into one of the servants rooms,at any time he likes ,be it day or night.
He then has every right to read the servants letters and go through her private things .He also presumably has the right to insist that her door must be unlocked 24 hours a day.
Oh purlease ,we do not live in the 19th century anymore. People have certain rights to privacy these days. :-/ :-/
One very brief observation on your explanation, Dusty...
Your analogy is very much alive and well in 2009. In a large number of commercial and non commercial businesses, management have the right to do exactly as you describe, including (and not limited to) body searches, bag searches, locker searches without locker owners being present etc etc....
E-mails being monitored, as is web access and, in a lot of instances, restricted or simply blocked.
As some others have comented, OOF is in the care and control of the Admin team and, to a limited extent, its members. If the members cannot police their forum then the admin team must.
To keep that policing to a minimum is the ideal but, sometimes, the Victorian/Real Life methods can, and must, prevail.
Said all I'm going to on this, thanks for the support where it appears..... :y
-
Maybe it should have the name changed from ""private message" to something like "contact a member",just to clear up any confusion ;)
Surely we can understand that in extreme circunstances the admins reserve the right to look at all communications within the forum.
In very extreme circumstances(bullying/harassment etc) they could leave themselves open to charges of culpability or similar if they didnt have this option in reserve.
-
Or H....make sure that all PM boxes are private and confidential Skruntie.
So that forum members can feel free to write what they wish without being concerned who else is reading it.It's called privacy. :-* :-* :-*
PM does NOT mean "Private" or "Confidential" ... there are no such concepts on the internet, and that is something a lot of folks don't realise. Everything you do, every keypress and mouse click, has an effect somewhere that is recorded or logged, along with a great deal more information than you realise.
If you want a "private" conversation ... DO NOT have it on the internet, and that includes SKYPE.
Back on topic, A forum owner could be taken to court if bullying or worse was taking place in PM's and they did nothing about it, and "electronic bullying" is becoming a problem in the real world.
The Admins/owners must have the right to read everything that is put on "their" site, be it public or not. If you/we/I don't like the way they do this we have one simple option.
And I'm not leaving .... :)
I agree with Entwood's points.....nothing is private using electronic means, even encrypted emails can be unencrypted.
Phone text messages are stored (not sure for how long, 3months?) and therefore can be read by another.
I administer a small web site, that is hosted by a hosting company, with the site, comes mailboxes, we have 10 mailboxes, that other people use, if I choose to, I can access those mailboxes (being an admin of the site), so too could the hosting company, however I have no inclination to and I doubt the hosting company has either.
So in a nutshell, never say anything that you send in an electronic format, that you dont want a 3rd party to read :y
I dont know what last night was about, missed it ::)
Dont really want to know, but well done the admins for sorting it out :y
-
computer systems always have admins that have full right to access anything because the nature of systems..Either its a banking system, or mail system or chat or other ..
Only security you can have is; you can send encrypted messages ..But thats another story..
And I as an IT worker , personally, never include something very special (to my life) in my PMs (which I dont want anybody to read) to anyone considering this fact..
and to add further I know-hear about some special systems designed to monitor all internet communication by some organizations..
-
I missed all the firewoks. Typical. ido'nt know who said or did what.
I can be a naughty poodle at times so this must've been a good'un? :-/
-
As has been pointed out here, PM stands for 'Personal Message', not 'Private Message'.
This system runs purely based on goodwill of the admins, and they have not, at any point, granted rights of privacy to any of the users. The analogy pointed out above that employers have the right at any time, without notice, to view the contents of employees email is a good one as that is replicated here. I don't view my PMs as private, merely not shared with the rest of the forum.
Another little point - I didn't see the threads last night, but surely it's our job, as responsible forum users, to apply a degree of self control? Is it not the case that some contribute to the fire by fanning the flames?
Just my two cents, as a dedicated and loyal OOF user. I respect and support the admins' decisions as the continuation of this site is dependant on their hard work, for which they go unrewarded.
-
Did something happen last night, i'd forgotten all about it.
That's because I got you drunk first ::)
Whatever I was drinking last night gave me a sore bum this morning :o
said the vicar to the bishop ;D
-
Did something happen last night, i'd forgotten all about it.
That's because I got you drunk first ::)
Whatever I was drinking last night gave me a sore bum this morning :o
said the vicar to the bishop ;D
How many vicars do you know that wear pink? ;D ;D ;D
-
Did something happen last night, i'd forgotten all about it.
That's because I got you drunk first ::)
Whatever I was drinking last night gave me a sore bum this morning :o
said the vicar to the bishop ;D
Trust you to cherrypick that little diamond from the whole thread ;D ;D
My faith in human nature is restored Pete. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
-
The PM facility is an adjunct of the forum. The forum is "owned" and run by the admins. By extrapolation, they also own the PM system and thus have every right to view the boxes. Common sense would dictate that such actions would only take place if something was being said which would bring the forum into disrepute (for example, if someone was sending obscene or abusive messages to other members). The main purpose of the PM facility is to enable members to exchange information which would otherwise clog up the boards. If you want to send intimate and private details to another member, you should use email.
So Nickbat. An analogy
Lets say that a wealthy victorian gentleman owns a large house with plenty of servants.
He has ,by your way of thinking ,every right to go into one of the servants rooms,at any time he likes ,be it day or night.
He then has every right to read the servants letters and go through her private things .He also presumably has the right to insist that her door must be unlocked 24 hours a day.
Oh purlease ,we do not live in the 19th century anymore. People have certain rights to privacy these days. :-/ :-/
We are not employees of OOF! This forum was started up by certain individuals who have allowed us to become members and share thoughts/advice. It is a club, if you like, and we must abide by club rules. You have no "rights" as such on the forum. Therefore your analogy is not, I would humbly suggest, appropriate in this case.
-
Did something happen last night, i'd forgotten all about it.
That's because I got you drunk first ::)
Whatever I was drinking last night gave me a sore bum this morning :o
said the vicar to the bishop ;D
Trust you to cherrypick that little diamond from the whole thread ;D ;D
My faith in human nature is restored Pete. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Yes, and it came from page 1, proving we all read the whole thread! ::) ::) ::) :D :D ;)
-
I agree with a few of the previous posts.
I don't have a problem with anyone looking at my personal or private messages, there's nothing ever of any interest.
Just the usual...
Have you got??
How much??
When can you send it??
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
-
Can we just leave this beaten donkey to rest and carry on the OOF banter this place is known for :y
-
if we beat the donkey, what sweets will we get??
or was that my seventh birthday party????
:D :D :D :D :D
-
Can we just leave this beaten donkey to rest and carry on the OOF banter this place is known for :y
yea i second that mate :y :y
-
I third that
-
I third that
"Fourth it" --- or "Completely agree" with Gaffers :y
-
Locked, done to death. My reply will follow.
-
From the forum guidelines:
Members being offensive to other members will not be tolerated.
Feelings were obviously running high. Very high. Suspending General Chat, it was obviously going to be the case that some members may wish to take it to the PM system.
As it happens, the Admin Team did not actually look at any PM boxes yesterday, AFAIK the threat was enough to apparently keep things under control - going by the complaints I received...