Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: Nickbat on 07 May 2009, 23:48:56
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How's this for a political can of worms? ;) ::) :o :-X
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/mps-expenses/5293257/MPs-expenses-Telegraph-reveals-Gordon-Browns-payments-to-brother.html
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"The higher the monkey climbs, the more it shows its arse".
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Don't think this is 'party' specific, obviously been going on for years, they are all in on it............. >:(
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Don't think this is 'party' specific, obviously been going on for years, they are all in on it............. >:(
Yep, I think some Tories are having a sleepless night! ;)
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Don't think this is 'party' specific, obviously been going on for years, they are all in on it............. >:(
Yep, I think some Tories are having a sleepless night! ;)
What do we do when it all comes out that all MP;s are on the fiddle, which they will be if the system allows it????
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Nice work if you can get it !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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"The higher the monkey climbs, the more it shows its arse".
Very profound ;D
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Bottom line is that the whole payments system should be designed, administered and policed by independant officers. Why the hell should MP's be allowed to be their own paymasters is beyond me >:(
Why should they be able to vote on how they get paid ( in any way, shape or form) ? Do any of us have that priviledge?? I doubt it.
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I see that one MP claimed back the 5p on an IKEA plastic bag.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/mps-expenses/5293320/MPs-expenses-A-Z.html?image=8
How tight can you get? ;D ;D ;D ;D
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"The higher the monkey climbs, the more it shows its arse".
;D ;D ;D Absolutely priceless :y :y :y
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"The higher the monkey climbs, the more it shows its arse".
Brilliant- :y ;D ;D ;D ;D
Saw on the news earlier that a male Tory MP has been claiming for tampons,you couldnt make it up. ::) >:( >:( >:(
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what about the mp who claimed for a new boiler becuase his boilers water was to hot :-? why didnt just turn the old boiler down what a pr--k >:( >:(
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"The higher the monkey climbs, the more it shows its arse".
Brilliant- :y ;D ;D ;D ;D
Saw on the news earlier that a male Tory MP has been claiming for tampons,you couldnt make it up. ::) >:( >:( >:(
So that's what they buy them for :D ;D
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"The higher the monkey climbs, the more it shows its arse".
Brilliant- :y ;D ;D ;D ;D
Saw on the news earlier that a male Tory MP has been claiming for tampons,you couldnt make it up. ::) >:( >:( >:(
:-? :-? :-? I think that is as far as they should dig into that case
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Who ever said they(MPs that is)have to be honest, chances are they would all be had up on charges of theft or at the very least immoral earnings if this issue fully hit the light of day which it probably won't >:(.
Come on lets face it there all at it, and i don't just mean MPs ::), it's just human nature to get what you can whilst you can when your in the position of the hierarchy in big business or power :(.
Like most of these media frenzy type stories it'll probably just die a death and never be heard of again >:(.
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You couldn't make it up could you
http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/Politics/Tourism-Minister-Barbara-Follett-Claimed-More-Than-25000-On-Expenses-For-Security-Outside-Home/Article/200905215278386
I think its time we sent this gravy train & all its parasites over the cliff, then they have the cheek to address other mp's as my right honourable friend, so WTF is dishonourable, then they say we have not broken any rules, so who make the rules then, parliament?
Grrrrrr rather bunch of arse wipes >:( >:(
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"The higher the monkey climbs, the more it shows its arse".
everywhere ;D :y
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I expect most will have read about the claim for two toilet seat repairs by Mr Two Jags, but I would like to draw your attention to comment No. 640 on the Guido Fawkes blog here:
http://www.order-order.com/2009/05/leak-about-leak-shows-panic/#comment-76063
It's got nothing to do with the sleaze as such, it's just got to be one of the funniest short comments I have read for a long time. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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I expect most will have read about the claim for two toilet seat repairs by Mr Two Jags, but I would like to draw your attention to comment No. 640 on the Guido Fawkes blog here:
http://www.order-order.com/2009/05/leak-about-leak-shows-panic/#comment-76063
It's got nothing to do with the sleaze as such, it's just got to be one of the funniest short comments I have read for a long time. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
As quoted by someone later on on in the blog......Let’s be honest, in Europe they are used to it. The EU gravy train is awash with swill and frankly makes our MP’s “fiddles” look like the office clerk pilfering pennies from the petty cash box.
A classic case of "Dont do as I do ,do as as I say" or in other words " F**k you jack I'm OK " >:( >:( >:( >:(
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It is simply the fact that mankind is born greedy and, given the opportunity, will always do everything they can to feather their own nests. The great philosopher Thomas Hobbes (1588 -1679) stated this, and the fact that man will always be at war with other men due to this greed, which requires good central control by a supreme 'Leviathan' power.
That is exactly what all MP's require; strict, powerful central control to stop this expenses madness which reflects pure greed >:( >:(
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It is simply the fact that mankind is born greedy and, given the opportunity, will always do everything they can to feather their own nests. The great philosopher Thomas Hobbes (1588 -1679) stated this, and the fact that man will always be at war with other men due to this greed, which requires good central control by a supreme 'Leviathan' power.
That is exactly what all MP's require; strict, powerful central control to stop this expenses madness which reflects pure greed >:( >:(
I would also add to my above post that this "greed of mankind" is not all negative, although at times it seems to be totally the case!
Without this natural drive for something better, man, and it is primarily man not women, we would now still be living in mud huts living a hand to mouth existence. The evolutionary momentum and drive by man has ensured human progress has traveled forever upwards, with the ability to "stock up" using modern technology in farming, industrial and domestic techniques, and to give us 'leisure' time away from the continual hunt for food, and to have families when we want them, rather than an absolute necessity for future survival, to till the land and gather the harvest. 8-) 8-) 8-)
The negative is when the natural drive goes too far and corrupts, as in the case of the MP's and their expenses!! >:( >:(
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It is simply the fact that mankind is born greedy and, given the opportunity, will always do everything they can to feather their own nests. The great philosopher Thomas Hobbes (1588 -1679) stated this, and the fact that man will always be at war with other men due to this greed, which requires good central control by a supreme 'Leviathan' power.
That is exactly what all MP's require; strict, powerful central control to stop this expenses madness which reflects pure greed >:( >:(
You wouldn't be looking for modern Cromwell there Ms Zoom? ;D ;D
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It is simply the fact that mankind is born greedy and, given the opportunity, will always do everything they can to feather their own nests. The great philosopher Thomas Hobbes (1588 -1679) stated this, and the fact that man will always be at war with other men due to this greed, which requires good central control by a supreme 'Leviathan' power.
That is exactly what all MP's require; strict, powerful central control to stop this expenses madness which reflects pure greed >:( >:(
You wouldn't be looking for modern Cromwell there Ms Zoom? ;D ;D
No Zulu as, typically, absolute power as Cromwell had leads to power corrupts absolutely which is exactly where he went wrong!! :D :D ;)
In my opinion this could be a role for the constitutional monarchy we have today, with non-political, neutral power to control the excesses of politicians. 8-) 8-)
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It is simply the fact that mankind is born greedy and, given the opportunity, will always do everything they can to feather their own nests. The great philosopher Thomas Hobbes (1588 -1679) stated this, and the fact that man will always be at war with other men due to this greed, which requires good central control by a supreme 'Leviathan' power.
That is exactly what all MP's require; strict, powerful central control to stop this expenses madness which reflects pure greed >:( >:(
I would also add to my above post that this "greed of mankind" is not all negative, although at times it seems to be totally the case!
Without this natural drive for something better, man, and it is primarily man not women, we would now still be living in mud huts living a hand to mouth existence. The evolutionary momentum and drive by man has ensured human progress has traveled forever upwards, with the ability to "stock up" using modern technology in farming, industrial and domestic techniques, and to give us 'leisure' time away from the continual hunt for food, and to have families when we want them, rather than an absolute necessity for future survival, to till the land and gather the harvest. 8-) 8-) 8-)
The negative is when the natural drive goes too far and corrupts, as in the case of the MP's and their expenses!! >:( >:(
I would submit that irrespective of whatever man (the sex) thought, women have always pulled the levers - and that's not necessarily a bad thing mind you :y
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It is simply the fact that mankind is born greedy and, given the opportunity, will always do everything they can to feather their own nests. The great philosopher Thomas Hobbes (1588 -1679) stated this, and the fact that man will always be at war with other men due to this greed, which requires good central control by a supreme 'Leviathan' power.
That is exactly what all MP's require; strict, powerful central control to stop this expenses madness which reflects pure greed >:( >:(
You wouldn't be looking for modern Cromwell there Ms Zoom? ;D ;D
No Zulu as, typically, absolute power as Cromwell had leads to power corrupts absolutely which is exactly where he went wrong!! :D :D ;)
In my opinion this could be a role for the constitutional monarchy we have today, with non-political, neutral power to control the excesses of politicians. 8-) 8-)
Who might well be as open to the foibles of the human condition as any one Ms Zoom :-/ :-/
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It is simply the fact that mankind is born greedy and, given the opportunity, will always do everything they can to feather their own nests. The great philosopher Thomas Hobbes (1588 -1679) stated this, and the fact that man will always be at war with other men due to this greed, which requires good central control by a supreme 'Leviathan' power.
That is exactly what all MP's require; strict, powerful central control to stop this expenses madness which reflects pure greed >:( >:(
I would also add to my above post that this "greed of mankind" is not all negative, although at times it seems to be totally the case!
Without this natural drive for something better, man, and it is primarily man not women, we would now still be living in mud huts living a hand to mouth existence. The evolutionary momentum and drive by man has ensured human progress has traveled forever upwards, with the ability to "stock up" using modern technology in farming, industrial and domestic techniques, and to give us 'leisure' time away from the continual hunt for food, and to have families when we want them, rather than an absolute necessity for future survival, to till the land and gather the harvest. 8-) 8-) 8-)
The negative is when the natural drive goes too far and corrupts, as in the case of the MP's and their expenses!! >:( >:(
I would submit that irrespective of whatever man (the sex) thought, women have always pulled the levers - and that's not necessarily a bad thing mind you :y
I wouldn't argue with that Zulu :y :y :D :D However, it is the male who has the real testosterone fed sex drive that powers the notion "we can, we will, and no matter what, do better to achieve more"
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It is simply the fact that mankind is born greedy and, given the opportunity, will always do everything they can to feather their own nests. The great philosopher Thomas Hobbes (1588 -1679) stated this, and the fact that man will always be at war with other men due to this greed, which requires good central control by a supreme 'Leviathan' power.
That is exactly what all MP's require; strict, powerful central control to stop this expenses madness which reflects pure greed >:( >:(
I would also add to my above post that this "greed of mankind" is not all negative, although at times it seems to be totally the case!
Without this natural drive for something better, man, and it is primarily man not women, we would now still be living in mud huts living a hand to mouth existence. The evolutionary momentum and drive by man has ensured human progress has traveled forever upwards, with the ability to "stock up" using modern technology in farming, industrial and domestic techniques, and to give us 'leisure' time away from the continual hunt for food, and to have families when we want them, rather than an absolute necessity for future survival, to till the land and gather the harvest. 8-) 8-) 8-)
The negative is when the natural drive goes too far and corrupts, as in the case of the MP's and their expenses!! >:( >:(
I would submit that irrespective of whatever man (the sex) thought, women have always pulled the levers - and that's not necessarily a bad thing mind you :y
I wouldn't argue with that Zulu :y :y :D :D However, it is the male who has the real testosterone fed sex drive that powers the notion "we can, we will, and no matter what, do better to achieve more"
Yep take the point Ms Zoom :y but it's that drive, fed by the primeval essense, which has led us into the keek on so many occasions ;) I fear that balance, due concern for others and the new ideal of getting as much for one's self, over the backs of others, is the thought uppermost in many modern minds :( :(
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It is simply the fact that mankind is born greedy and, given the opportunity, will always do everything they can to feather their own nests. The great philosopher Thomas Hobbes (1588 -1679) stated this, and the fact that man will always be at war with other men due to this greed, which requires good central control by a supreme 'Leviathan' power.
That is exactly what all MP's require; strict, powerful central control to stop this expenses madness which reflects pure greed >:( >:(
I would also add to my above post that this "greed of mankind" is not all negative, although at times it seems to be totally the case!
Without this natural drive for something better, man, and it is primarily man not women, we would now still be living in mud huts living a hand to mouth existence. The evolutionary momentum and drive by man has ensured human progress has traveled forever upwards, with the ability to "stock up" using modern technology in farming, industrial and domestic techniques, and to give us 'leisure' time away from the continual hunt for food, and to have families when we want them, rather than an absolute necessity for future survival, to till the land and gather the harvest. 8-) 8-) 8-)
The negative is when the natural drive goes too far and corrupts, as in the case of the MP's and their expenses!! >:( >:(
I would submit that irrespective of whatever man (the sex) thought, women have always pulled the levers - and that's not necessarily a bad thing mind you :y
I wouldn't argue with that Zulu :y :y :D :D However, it is the male who has the real testosterone fed sex drive that powers the notion "we can, we will, and no matter what, do better to achieve more"
Yep take the point Ms Zoom :y but it's that drive, fed by the primeval essense, which has led us into the keek on so many occasions ;) I fear that balance, due concern for others and the new ideal of getting as much for one's self, over the backs of others, is the thought uppermost in many modern minds :( :(
This has always been so throughout time, and sometimes has risen to state level with political power and territorial greed leading to wars, such as the Boer War, especially the First World War, then the Second World War, and the Vietnam War. Modern affluence, and maybe secularism, has certainly led to us believing this is a rotten self centred age, but many in the 16th, 17th, 18th and 19th centuries thought the same, with workers, agricultural and later industrial, being exploited, and not forgetting such evils as the slave trade.
Our society today is actually well regulated, and gives most of us in the western world a comfortable existence. At the moment though we have a problem with our Government (not a new phenomenon by any means) and an over liberalised system which creates perceived or actual injustice. The Queen or future King could be the true politically neutral power that 'audits' our politicians, and holds them accountable. We obviously do not want to return to the evils of an absolute monarchy, but we, the citizens, should fully use the advantages of our constitutional royalty. Nothing though will ever be perfect, as history has proved!! ::) ::)
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The sole reason for the existance of any life form is to pass on its genetic material, hence the 'selfish' gene kicks in to increase the chances of that happening!
Discuss...............
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The sole reason for the existance of any life form is to pass on its genetic material, hence the 'selfish' gene kicks in to increase the chances of that happening!
Discuss...............
That is all completely natural and above board if you follow the limitations placed on you by man's legal and moral laws!! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;)
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It is simply the fact that mankind is born greedy and, given the opportunity, will always do everything they can to feather their own nests. The great philosopher Thomas Hobbes (1588 -1679) stated this, and the fact that man will always be at war with other men due to this greed, which requires good central control by a supreme 'Leviathan' power.
That is exactly what all MP's require; strict, powerful central control to stop this expenses madness which reflects pure greed >:( >:(
I would also add to my above post that this "greed of mankind" is not all negative, although at times it seems to be totally the case!
Without this natural drive for something better, man, and it is primarily man not women, we would now still be living in mud huts living a hand to mouth existence. The evolutionary momentum and drive by man has ensured human progress has traveled forever upwards, with the ability to "stock up" using modern technology in farming, industrial and domestic techniques, and to give us 'leisure' time away from the continual hunt for food, and to have families when we want them, rather than an absolute necessity for future survival, to till the land and gather the harvest. 8-) 8-) 8-)
The negative is when the natural drive goes too far and corrupts, as in the case of the MP's and their expenses!! >:( >:(
I would submit that irrespective of whatever man (the sex) thought, women have always pulled the levers - and that's not necessarily a bad thing mind you :y
I wouldn't argue with that Zulu :y :y :D :D However, it is the male who has the real testosterone fed sex drive that powers the notion "we can, we will, and no matter what, do better to achieve more"
Yep take the point Ms Zoom :y but it's that drive, fed by the primeval essense, which has led us into the keek on so many occasions ;) I fear that balance, due concern for others and the new ideal of getting as much for one's self, over the backs of others, is the thought uppermost in many modern minds :( :(
This has always been so throughout time, and sometimes has risen to state level with political power and territorial greed leading to wars, such as the Boer War, especially the First World War, then the Second World War, and the Vietnam War. Modern affluence, and maybe secularism, has certainly led to us believing this is a rotten self centred age, but many in the 16th, 17th, 18th and 19th centuries thought the same, with workers, agricultural and later industrial, being exploited, and not forgetting such evils as the slave trade.
Our society today is actually well regulated, and gives most of us in the western world a comfortable existence. At the moment though we have a problem with our Government (not a new phenomenon by any means) and an over liberalised system which creates perceived or actual injustice. The Queen or future King could be the true politically neutral power that 'audits' our politicians, and holds them accountable. We obviously do not want to return to the evils of an absolute monarchy, but we, the citizens, should fully use the advantages of our constitutional royalty. Nothing though will ever be perfect, as history has proved!! ::) ::)
True but at what potential price? I think many will fall at the first hurdle when things go tits up - (do forgive my freedom Ms Zoom) precisely because we have been over-regulated, many would say spoon-fed and softened up :( :(
I would love for that to be the case :) but it assumes that the controlling influence would be benign and have due consideration for it's charges and that said charges, would have the wit to tear their attention away from Eastenders, Davina McCall or whatever else is occupying their collective time ;) ;)
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It is simply the fact that mankind is born greedy and, given the opportunity, will always do everything they can to feather their own nests. The great philosopher Thomas Hobbes (1588 -1679) stated this, and the fact that man will always be at war with other men due to this greed, which requires good central control by a supreme 'Leviathan' power.
That is exactly what all MP's require; strict, powerful central control to stop this expenses madness which reflects pure greed >:( >:(
I would also add to my above post that this "greed of mankind" is not all negative, although at times it seems to be totally the case!
Without this natural drive for something better, man, and it is primarily man not women, we would now still be living in mud huts living a hand to mouth existence. The evolutionary momentum and drive by man has ensured human progress has traveled forever upwards, with the ability to "stock up" using modern technology in farming, industrial and domestic techniques, and to give us 'leisure' time away from the continual hunt for food, and to have families when we want them, rather than an absolute necessity for future survival, to till the land and gather the harvest. 8-) 8-) 8-)
The negative is when the natural drive goes too far and corrupts, as in the case of the MP's and their expenses!! >:( >:(
I would submit that irrespective of whatever man (the sex) thought, women have always pulled the levers - and that's not necessarily a bad thing mind you :y
I wouldn't argue with that Zulu :y :y :D :D However, it is the male who has the real testosterone fed sex drive that powers the notion "we can, we will, and no matter what, do better to achieve more"
Yep take the point Ms Zoom :y but it's that drive, fed by the primeval essense, which has led us into the keek on so many occasions ;) I fear that balance, due concern for others and the new ideal of getting as much for one's self, over the backs of others, is the thought uppermost in many modern minds :( :(
This has always been so throughout time, and sometimes has risen to state level with political power and territorial greed leading to wars, such as the Boer War, especially the First World War, then the Second World War, and the Vietnam War. Modern affluence, and maybe secularism, has certainly led to us believing this is a rotten self centred age, but many in the 16th, 17th, 18th and 19th centuries thought the same, with workers, agricultural and later industrial, being exploited, and not forgetting such evils as the slave trade.
Our society today is actually well regulated, and gives most of us in the western world a comfortable existence. At the moment though we have a problem with our Government (not a new phenomenon by any means) and an over liberalised system which creates perceived or actual injustice. The Queen or future King could be the true politically neutral power that 'audits' our politicians, and holds them accountable. We obviously do not want to return to the evils of an absolute monarchy, but we, the citizens, should fully use the advantages of our constitutional royalty. Nothing though will ever be perfect, as history has proved!! ::) ::)
True but at what potential price? I think many will fall at the first hurdle when things go tits up - (do forgive my freedom Ms Zoom) precisely because we have been over-regulated, many would say spoon-fed and softened up :( :(
I would love for that to be the case :) but it assumes that the controlling influence would be benign and have due consideration for it's charges and that said charges, would have the wit to tear their attention away from Eastenders, Davina McCall or whatever else is occupying their collective time ;) ;)
In many ways that is what I believe.........but then you find out about what has been happening behind the closed doors of the banks, then the MP's expenses!! ::) ::)
I am a disciple of the economist philosopher F.A. Hayek who warned of over regulation and control by any government, along socialist involvement in personal freedoms by Westminster. But all policies have come unstuck in their own ways, so where do we go from here? :-? :-? Scrap capitalism and adhere to Marxist policies for a change? ::) ::) Would that stop the greed of mankind? I doubt it!! ::) ::)
Give me Plato's Republic or Hobbes Leviathan 8-) 8-) 8-)
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It is simply the fact that mankind is born greedy and, given the opportunity, will always do everything they can to feather their own nests. The great philosopher Thomas Hobbes (1588 -1679) stated this, and the fact that man will always be at war with other men due to this greed, which requires good central control by a supreme 'Leviathan' power.
That is exactly what all MP's require; strict, powerful central control to stop this expenses madness which reflects pure greed >:( >:(
I would also add to my above post that this "greed of mankind" is not all negative, although at times it seems to be totally the case!
Without this natural drive for something better, man, and it is primarily man not women, we would now still be living in mud huts living a hand to mouth existence. The evolutionary momentum and drive by man has ensured human progress has traveled forever upwards, with the ability to "stock up" using modern technology in farming, industrial and domestic techniques, and to give us 'leisure' time away from the continual hunt for food, and to have families when we want them, rather than an absolute necessity for future survival, to till the land and gather the harvest. 8-) 8-) 8-)
The negative is when the natural drive goes too far and corrupts, as in the case of the MP's and their expenses!! >:( >:(
I would submit that irrespective of whatever man (the sex) thought, women have always pulled the levers - and that's not necessarily a bad thing mind you :y
I wouldn't argue with that Zulu :y :y :D :D However, it is the male who has the real testosterone fed sex drive that powers the notion "we can, we will, and no matter what, do better to achieve more"
Yep take the point Ms Zoom :y but it's that drive, fed by the primeval essense, which has led us into the keek on so many occasions ;) I fear that balance, due concern for others and the new ideal of getting as much for one's self, over the backs of others, is the thought uppermost in many modern minds :( :(
This has always been so throughout time, and sometimes has risen to state level with political power and territorial greed leading to wars, such as the Boer War, especially the First World War, then the Second World War, and the Vietnam War. Modern affluence, and maybe secularism, has certainly led to us believing this is a rotten self centred age, but many in the 16th, 17th, 18th and 19th centuries thought the same, with workers, agricultural and later industrial, being exploited, and not forgetting such evils as the slave trade.
Our society today is actually well regulated, and gives most of us in the western world a comfortable existence. At the moment though we have a problem with our Government (not a new phenomenon by any means) and an over liberalised system which creates perceived or actual injustice. The Queen or future King could be the true politically neutral power that 'audits' our politicians, and holds them accountable. We obviously do not want to return to the evils of an absolute monarchy, but we, the citizens, should fully use the advantages of our constitutional royalty. Nothing though will ever be perfect, as history has proved!! ::) ::)
True but at what potential price? I think many will fall at the first hurdle when things go tits up - (do forgive my freedom Ms Zoom) precisely because we have been over-regulated, many would say spoon-fed and softened up :( :(
I would love for that to be the case :) but it assumes that the controlling influence would be benign and have due consideration for it's charges and that said charges, would have the wit to tear their attention away from Eastenders, Davina McCall or whatever else is occupying their collective time ;) ;)
In many ways that is what I believe.........but then you find out about what has been happening behind the closed doors of the banks, then the MP's expenses!! ::) ::)
I am a disciple of the economist philosopher F.A. Hayek who warned of over regulation and control by any government, along socialist involvement in personal freedoms by Westminster. But all policies have come unstuck in their own ways, so where do we go from here? :-? :-? Scrap capitalism and adhere to Marxist policies for a change? ::) ::) Would that stop the greed of mankind? I doubt it!! ::) ::)
Give me Plato's Republic or Hobbes Leviathan 8-) 8-) 8-)
Goddamnit Ms Zoom I'm going to have to dig the books out again ;D ;D I do take your point however. That's why I think there is a day of reckoning in the not too distant future. I hope that many of us will be up to the task of picking up the pieces :y
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It is simply the fact that mankind is born greedy and, given the opportunity, will always do everything they can to feather their own nests. The great philosopher Thomas Hobbes (1588 -1679) stated this, and the fact that man will always be at war with other men due to this greed, which requires good central control by a supreme 'Leviathan' power.
That is exactly what all MP's require; strict, powerful central control to stop this expenses madness which reflects pure greed >:( >:(
I would also add to my above post that this "greed of mankind" is not all negative, although at times it seems to be totally the case!
Without this natural drive for something better, man, and it is primarily man not women, we would now still be living in mud huts living a hand to mouth existence. The evolutionary momentum and drive by man has ensured human progress has traveled forever upwards, with the ability to "stock up" using modern technology in farming, industrial and domestic techniques, and to give us 'leisure' time away from the continual hunt for food, and to have families when we want them, rather than an absolute necessity for future survival, to till the land and gather the harvest. 8-) 8-) 8-)
The negative is when the natural drive goes too far and corrupts, as in the case of the MP's and their expenses!! >:( >:(
I would submit that irrespective of whatever man (the sex) thought, women have always pulled the levers - and that's not necessarily a bad thing mind you :y
I wouldn't argue with that Zulu :y :y :D :D However, it is the male who has the real testosterone fed sex drive that powers the notion "we can, we will, and no matter what, do better to achieve more"
Yep take the point Ms Zoom :y but it's that drive, fed by the primeval essense, which has led us into the keek on so many occasions ;) I fear that balance, due concern for others and the new ideal of getting as much for one's self, over the backs of others, is the thought uppermost in many modern minds :( :(
This has always been so throughout time, and sometimes has risen to state level with political power and territorial greed leading to wars, such as the Boer War, especially the First World War, then the Second World War, and the Vietnam War. Modern affluence, and maybe secularism, has certainly led to us believing this is a rotten self centred age, but many in the 16th, 17th, 18th and 19th centuries thought the same, with workers, agricultural and later industrial, being exploited, and not forgetting such evils as the slave trade.
Our society today is actually well regulated, and gives most of us in the western world a comfortable existence. At the moment though we have a problem with our Government (not a new phenomenon by any means) and an over liberalised system which creates perceived or actual injustice. The Queen or future King could be the true politically neutral power that 'audits' our politicians, and holds them accountable. We obviously do not want to return to the evils of an absolute monarchy, but we, the citizens, should fully use the advantages of our constitutional royalty. Nothing though will ever be perfect, as history has proved!! ::) ::)
True but at what potential price? I think many will fall at the first hurdle when things go tits up - (do forgive my freedom Ms Zoom) precisely because we have been over-regulated, many would say spoon-fed and softened up :( :(
I would love for that to be the case :) but it assumes that the controlling influence would be benign and have due consideration for it's charges and that said charges, would have the wit to tear their attention away from Eastenders, Davina McCall or whatever else is occupying their collective time ;) ;)
In many ways that is what I believe.........but then you find out about what has been happening behind the closed doors of the banks, then the MP's expenses!! ::) ::)
I am a disciple of the economist philosopher F.A. Hayek who warned of over regulation and control by any government, along socialist involvement in personal freedoms by Westminster. But all policies have come unstuck in their own ways, so where do we go from here? :-? :-? Scrap capitalism and adhere to Marxist policies for a change? ::) ::) Would that stop the greed of mankind? I doubt it!! ::) ::)
Give me Plato's Republic or Hobbes Leviathan 8-) 8-) 8-)
Goddamnit Ms Zoom I'm going to have to dig the books out again ;D ;D I do take your point however. That's why I think there is a day of reckoning in the not too distant future. I hope that many of us will be up to the task of picking up the pieces :y
;D ;D ;D The one book I didn't quote was Hayek's (1944) The Road to Serfdom
Yes, you are right! A reckoning is acoming!! :-X :-X :-X :-X
-
It is simply the fact that mankind is born greedy and, given the opportunity, will always do everything they can to feather their own nests. The great philosopher Thomas Hobbes (1588 -1679) stated this, and the fact that man will always be at war with other men due to this greed, which requires good central control by a supreme 'Leviathan' power.
That is exactly what all MP's require; strict, powerful central control to stop this expenses madness which reflects pure greed >:( >:(
I would also add to my above post that this "greed of mankind" is not all negative, although at times it seems to be totally the case!
Without this natural drive for something better, man, and it is primarily man not women, we would now still be living in mud huts living a hand to mouth existence. The evolutionary momentum and drive by man has ensured human progress has traveled forever upwards, with the ability to "stock up" using modern technology in farming, industrial and domestic techniques, and to give us 'leisure' time away from the continual hunt for food, and to have families when we want them, rather than an absolute necessity for future survival, to till the land and gather the harvest. 8-) 8-) 8-)
The negative is when the natural drive goes too far and corrupts, as in the case of the MP's and their expenses!! >:( >:(
I would submit that irrespective of whatever man (the sex) thought, women have always pulled the levers - and that's not necessarily a bad thing mind you :y
I wouldn't argue with that Zulu :y :y :D :D However, it is the male who has the real testosterone fed sex drive that powers the notion "we can, we will, and no matter what, do better to achieve more"
Yep take the point Ms Zoom :y but it's that drive, fed by the primeval essense, which has led us into the keek on so many occasions ;) I fear that balance, due concern for others and the new ideal of getting as much for one's self, over the backs of others, is the thought uppermost in many modern minds :( :(
This has always been so throughout time, and sometimes has risen to state level with political power and territorial greed leading to wars, such as the Boer War, especially the First World War, then the Second World War, and the Vietnam War. Modern affluence, and maybe secularism, has certainly led to us believing this is a rotten self centred age, but many in the 16th, 17th, 18th and 19th centuries thought the same, with workers, agricultural and later industrial, being exploited, and not forgetting such evils as the slave trade.
Our society today is actually well regulated, and gives most of us in the western world a comfortable existence. At the moment though we have a problem with our Government (not a new phenomenon by any means) and an over liberalised system which creates perceived or actual injustice. The Queen or future King could be the true politically neutral power that 'audits' our politicians, and holds them accountable. We obviously do not want to return to the evils of an absolute monarchy, but we, the citizens, should fully use the advantages of our constitutional royalty. Nothing though will ever be perfect, as history has proved!! ::) ::)
True but at what potential price? I think many will fall at the first hurdle when things go tits up - (do forgive my freedom Ms Zoom) precisely because we have been over-regulated, many would say spoon-fed and softened up :( :(
I would love for that to be the case :) but it assumes that the controlling influence would be benign and have due consideration for it's charges and that said charges, would have the wit to tear their attention away from Eastenders, Davina McCall or whatever else is occupying their collective time ;) ;)
In many ways that is what I believe.........but then you find out about what has been happening behind the closed doors of the banks, then the MP's expenses!! ::) ::)
I am a disciple of the economist philosopher F.A. Hayek who warned of over regulation and control by any government, along socialist involvement in personal freedoms by Westminster. But all policies have come unstuck in their own ways, so where do we go from here? :-? :-? Scrap capitalism and adhere to Marxist policies for a change? ::) ::) Would that stop the greed of mankind? I doubt it!! ::) ::)
Give me Plato's Republic or Hobbes Leviathan 8-) 8-) 8-)
Goddamnit Ms Zoom I'm going to have to dig the books out again ;D ;D I do take your point however. That's why I think there is a day of reckoning in the not too distant future. I hope that many of us will be up to the task of picking up the pieces :y
;D ;D ;D The one book I didn't quote was Hayek's (1944) The Road to Serfdom [/i]
Yes, you are right! A reckoning is acoming!! :-X :-X :-X :-X
Thank you kindly maam :y :y