Omega Owners Forum

Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: Allenm on 16 June 2009, 11:50:55

Title: ADSL +2 Question
Post by: Allenm on 16 June 2009, 11:50:55
I have just switched broadband supplier from Tiscali to O2 to try and improve my rubbish speed (i am 5.8km away from the exchange so can only get 512!).  According to SAMKNOWS, O2 provide ADSL +2 which may be able to provide a faster connection, but should be no worse in any case. and its cheaper!

Question is, given that ADSL +2 uses addition frequencies on the line to increase the bandwidth, do I need to have special filters on the line?

Cheers
Merv
Title: Re: ADSL +2 Question
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 16 June 2009, 11:57:51
Quote
I have just switched broadband supplier from Tiscali to O2 to try and improve my rubbish speed (i am 5.8km away from the exchange so can only get 512!).  According to SAMKNOWS, O2 provide ADSL +2 which may be able to provide a faster connection, but should be no worse in any case. and its cheaper!

Question is, given that ADSL +2 uses addition frequencies on the line to increase the bandwidth, do I need to have special filters on the line?

Cheers
Merv

Nope.

The filters you have are little more than low and high pass devices anyway, low pass for the speach and high pass for the broadband.

Good quality filters can help and you can often see gaisn by placing a single high quality filter right at the master socket and running twisted pair (Cat 5E works well) to your modem if its remote located. (I buy my filters from adslnation who also do a plate to replace the customer part of the master socket with a built in filter that works well).

One thing to watch though is that ADSL2 does push the boundaries of the lines capability and some providers, in an attempt to sell and market max throughput, run with little or no margin on the noise front. As such you can see the connection drop during certain times of the day (evening is a classic time)
Title: Re: ADSL +2 Question
Post by: Jimbob on 16 June 2009, 12:38:36
Ive just made the same switch...

5.5 k from exhange

im not getting 3.5 - 4 mb down, 90k up

had no speed drop, other than that 1/2 meg variance.

Been very happy,  another vote for improving your wiring, using a good screened modem lead I got an extra 400k!  still need to change the faceplate.

If you sign up via quidco, you get £50 cash back too  :y
Title: Re: ADSL +2 Question
Post by: Jimbob on 16 June 2009, 13:02:54
Ohh and another good vote for the adsl nation microfilters (Beleived to be the best out there)

In days gone by, I would be broadband connected to the internet...
But need to use an old modem on a laptop to dial into work.

The supplied microfilters worked fine, until I use a modem through them, which caused the broadband to drop.

Swapping to an XF1e (http://www.adslnation.co.uk/products/xf-1e.php) filter, fixed the issue for me.

dunno what they do differently, but the gear is top notch  :y
Title: Re: ADSL +2 Question
Post by: Allenm on 16 June 2009, 13:29:00
Quote
Ive just made the same switch...

5.5 k from exhange

im not getting 3.5 - 4 mb down, 90k up

had no speed drop, other than that 1/2 meg variance.

Been very happy,  another vote for improving your wiring, using a good screened modem lead I got an extra 400k!  still need to change the faceplate.

If you sign up via quidco, you get £50 cash back too  :y

Thanks Jimbob, are you "now" getting that, or what are you getting?  what did you get before the switch?

ta
Title: Re: ADSL +2 Question
Post by: Allenm on 16 June 2009, 13:31:12
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I have just switched broadband supplier from Tiscali to O2 to try and improve my rubbish speed (i am 5.8km away from the exchange so can only get 512!).  According to SAMKNOWS, O2 provide ADSL +2 which may be able to provide a faster connection, but should be no worse in any case. and its cheaper!

Question is, given that ADSL +2 uses addition frequencies on the line to increase the bandwidth, do I need to have special filters on the line?

Cheers
Merv

Nope.

The filters you have are little more than low and high pass devices anyway, low pass for the speach and high pass for the broadband.

Good quality filters can help and you can often see gaisn by placing a single high quality filter right at the master socket and running twisted pair (Cat 5E works well) to your modem if its remote located. (I buy my filters from adslnation who also do a plate to replace the customer part of the master socket with a built in filter that works well).

One thing to watch though is that ADSL2 does push the boundaries of the lines capability and some providers, in an attempt to sell and market max throughput, run with little or no margin on the noise front. As such you can see the connection drop during certain times of the day (evening is a classic time)
Cheers Mark

As far as I know, I already have a filter on the master box (BT had to frig about to get it to work on the original extended reach trial), or it could be the bell wire disabled.  I will check.

If I need to install a filter on the master, do I still need filters on extension points or not?

ta
Title: Re: ADSL +2 Question
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 16 June 2009, 13:33:18
Depends how you wire it but generally no.
Title: Re: ADSL +2 Question
Post by: Jimbob on 16 June 2009, 13:54:34
History...

512k with demon, who refused to try faster...

I left demon to Zen, who would put through a manual request to try faster...  It worked, and had 1meg for years successfully.

fortnight ago, switched to O2 (LLU Standard Product)
where I now get 3.5-4 meg, 90k up (was 25k up)
Title: Re: ADSL +2 Question
Post by: Allenm on 16 June 2009, 13:59:11
Cheers Guys,

Looks like the right decision then,  I will see how it gets on.
Title: Re: ADSL +2 Question
Post by: iggy21uk on 16 June 2009, 16:47:09
May be a BT I-plate you have fitted ?

http://www.btwholesale.com/pages/downloads/Products/Internet/I-Plate_overview_issue_2.pdf

Keep meaning to get one of these as has filtered & Unfiltered on the back.

http://tamarshop.co.uk/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=363
Title: Re: ADSL +2 Question
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 16 June 2009, 18:18:13
Yep, its the faceplate that I have from www.adslnation.co.uk .

As said, the filters they use are very good!

http://www.adslnation.com/phpapps/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=24&products_id=105
Title: Re: ADSL +2 Question
Post by: KillerWatt on 16 June 2009, 18:37:20
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If I need to install a filter on the master, do I still need filters on extension points or not?
If your master socket already has the integral filter, you don't need to worry about anything.

If you are using the standard NTE-5 master socket, then EVERY single device that plugs in to your phone line will need to be fed via a filter.
Title: Re: ADSL +2 Question
Post by: TheBoy on 16 June 2009, 19:39:07
Be aware, ADSL2 can reduce speeds under certain circumstances.  The area of MK you are in is problematic, but on the upside, MK is where BT tend to run trials (as you know, as I seem to recall you were on the original FTTP trial 5 or so years ago).
Title: Re: ADSL +2 Question
Post by: TheBoy on 16 June 2009, 19:39:48
Quote
May be a BT I-plate you have fitted ?

http://www.btwholesale.com/pages/downloads/Products/Internet/I-Plate_overview_issue_2.pdf

Keep meaning to get one of these as has filtered & Unfiltered on the back.

http://tamarshop.co.uk/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=363
i-plate doesn't do a busting lot other than disconnect the ring wire.
Title: Re: ADSL +2 Question
Post by: TheBoy on 16 June 2009, 19:40:56
Quote
Ohh and another good vote for the adsl nation microfilters (Beleived to be the best out there)

In days gone by, I would be broadband connected to the internet...
But need to use an old modem on a laptop to dial into work.

The supplied microfilters worked fine, until I use a modem through them, which caused the broadband to drop.

Swapping to an XF1e (http://www.quickpar.org.uk/Download.htm) filter, fixed the issue for me.

dunno what they do differently, but the gear is top notch  :y
Bugger, thats reminded me, I have a filtered faceplate sat on my desk at work with your name on it. Forgot it, will post tomorrow night  :-[
Title: Re: ADSL +2 Question
Post by: Jimbob on 16 June 2009, 20:50:05
Quote
Quote
Ohh and another good vote for the adsl nation microfilters (Beleived to be the best out there)

In days gone by, I would be broadband connected to the internet...
But need to use an old modem on a laptop to dial into work.

The supplied microfilters worked fine, until I use a modem through them, which caused the broadband to drop.

Swapping to an  filter, fixed the issue for me.

dunno what they do differently, but the gear is top notch  :y (http://www.adslnation.co.uk/products/xf-1e.phpXF1e[/url)
Bugger, thats reminded me, I have a filtered faceplate sat on my desk at work with your name on it. Forgot it, will post tomorrow night  :-[


Cheers Matey  :y
Title: Re: ADSL +2 Question
Post by: Allenm on 23 June 2009, 10:13:58
Just got round to checking the master socket.  Looks like a standard one, but only the blue wires connected,  in fact only possible to connect two wires.  Now wondering if this is a standard faceplate or not.  I would have thought that there should be 4 connecting points (blue pair for Data, orange pair for Bell)?

Anyway, I have just ordered the master socket from adlsnation, so will see what I get.

cheers
Title: Re: ADSL +2 Question
Post by: TheBoy on 23 June 2009, 19:41:35
Quote
Just got round to checking the master socket.  Looks like a standard one, but only the blue wires connected,  in fact only possible to connect two wires.  Now wondering if this is a standard faceplate or not.  I would have thought that there should be 4 connecting points (blue pair for Data, orange pair for Bell)?

Anyway, I have just ordered the master socket from adlsnation, so will see what I get.

cheers
Silly arse, I have a couple spare ;)
Title: Re: ADSL +2 Question
Post by: Jimbob on 24 June 2009, 07:06:39
One of them made a difference here, well worth replacing  :y
Title: Re: ADSL +2 Question
Post by: KillerWatt on 24 June 2009, 08:26:11
Quote
Just got round to checking the master socket.  Looks like a standard one, but only the blue wires connected,  in fact only possible to connect two wires.  Now wondering if this is a standard faceplate or not.  I would have thought that there should be 4 connecting points (blue pair for Data, orange pair for Bell)?

Anyway, I have just ordered the master socket from adlsnation, so will see what I get.

cheers
Master socket only has 2 wires connected (normally blue & white/blue).
The "bell" wire only comes in to play for extension sockets, and this is taken from terminal 3 of the master socket and connected to terminal 3 in all slave (extension) sockets.
Title: Re: ADSL +2 Question
Post by: Allenm on 24 June 2009, 13:44:00
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Quote
Just got round to checking the master socket.  Looks like a standard one, but only the blue wires connected,  in fact only possible to connect two wires.  Now wondering if this is a standard faceplate or not.  I would have thought that there should be 4 connecting points (blue pair for Data, orange pair for Bell)?

Anyway, I have just ordered the master socket from adlsnation, so will see what I get.

cheers
Silly arse, I have a couple spare ;)

Bugger!  Still, if it makes a difference, then worth £12.  The line speed is already quicker, gone from .5 to 1.7 and that was tested with other use on the line.

result!
Title: Re: ADSL +2 Question
Post by: TheBoy on 24 June 2009, 19:35:16
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Just got round to checking the master socket.  Looks like a standard one, but only the blue wires connected,  in fact only possible to connect two wires.  Now wondering if this is a standard faceplate or not.  I would have thought that there should be 4 connecting points (blue pair for Data, orange pair for Bell)?

Anyway, I have just ordered the master socket from adlsnation, so will see what I get.

cheers
Master socket only has 2 wires connected (normally blue & white/blue).
The "bell" wire only comes in to play for extension sockets, and this is taken from terminal 3 of the master socket and connected to terminal 3 in all slave (extension) sockets.
And if your phones are new enough not to need it, disconnecting the ringing wire (3, Orange/Wh), can get you a better SNR, ultimately (after a few days) better sync rate or better stability.
Title: Re: ADSL +2 Question
Post by: TheBoy on 24 June 2009, 19:35:48
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Quote
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Just got round to checking the master socket.  Looks like a standard one, but only the blue wires connected,  in fact only possible to connect two wires.  Now wondering if this is a standard faceplate or not.  I would have thought that there should be 4 connecting points (blue pair for Data, orange pair for Bell)?

Anyway, I have just ordered the master socket from adlsnation, so will see what I get.

cheers
Silly arse, I have a couple spare ;)

Bugger!  Still, if it makes a difference, then worth £12.  The line speed is already quicker, gone from .5 to 1.7 and that was tested with other use on the line.

result!
SUrprised you get Jack all the way out there - you off Bradwell Abbey or Newport Pag?
Title: Re: ADSL +2 Question
Post by: Allenm on 24 June 2009, 19:41:44
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Just got round to checking the master socket.  Looks like a standard one, but only the blue wires connected,  in fact only possible to connect two wires.  Now wondering if this is a standard faceplate or not.  I would have thought that there should be 4 connecting points (blue pair for Data, orange pair for Bell)?

Anyway, I have just ordered the master socket from adlsnation, so will see what I get.

cheers
Silly arse, I have a couple spare ;)

Bugger!  Still, if it makes a difference, then worth £12.  The line speed is already quicker, gone from .5 to 1.7 and that was tested with other use on the line.

result!
SUrprised you get Jack all the way out there - you off Bradwell Abbey or Newport Pag?
Bradwell Abbey,  5.885k, away from it!  Originally couldn't get anything, then went on the extended reach trial and have had 512 since.  Just tested the new adsl +2 again 1.9mb!

Still got to fit the new filtered NTE, but a bit perplexed with the setup.  2 blue wires connected to the back plate, orange wires disconnected (but from where I have no idea!), and no extensions off the master, but there are other extensions around the house.

No idea where these are branched from, I really want a new line into the master and run everything from there, but need to locate the spur first.
Title: Re: ADSL +2 Question
Post by: TheBoy on 24 June 2009, 20:05:07
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Just got round to checking the master socket.  Looks like a standard one, but only the blue wires connected,  in fact only possible to connect two wires.  Now wondering if this is a standard faceplate or not.  I would have thought that there should be 4 connecting points (blue pair for Data, orange pair for Bell)?

Anyway, I have just ordered the master socket from adlsnation, so will see what I get.

cheers
Silly arse, I have a couple spare ;)

Bugger!  Still, if it makes a difference, then worth £12.  The line speed is already quicker, gone from .5 to 1.7 and that was tested with other use on the line.

result!
SUrprised you get Jack all the way out there - you off Bradwell Abbey or Newport Pag?
Bradwell Abbey,  5.885k, away from it!  Originally couldn't get anything, then went on the extended reach trial and have had 512 since.  Just tested the new adsl +2 again 1.9mb!

Still got to fit the new filtered NTE, but a bit perplexed with the setup.  2 blue wires connected to the back plate, orange wires disconnected (but from where I have no idea!), and no extensions off the master, but there are other extensions around the house.

No idea where these are branched from, I really want a new line into the master and run everything from there, but need to locate the spur first.
Yeah, thought it would be Bradwell Abbey.

On the upside, as BT do a lot of their testing in MK, its very well optimised in that area :y

From memory, that era of housing in MK, line comes in bin cupboard, and is crimped straight through to internal wiring, often to a plate in hallway
Title: Re: ADSL +2 Question
Post by: Allenm on 25 June 2009, 09:30:15
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Just got round to checking the master socket.  Looks like a standard one, but only the blue wires connected,  in fact only possible to connect two wires.  Now wondering if this is a standard faceplate or not.  I would have thought that there should be 4 connecting points (blue pair for Data, orange pair for Bell)?

Anyway, I have just ordered the master socket from adlsnation, so will see what I get.

cheers
Silly arse, I have a couple spare ;)

Bugger!  Still, if it makes a difference, then worth £12.  The line speed is already quicker, gone from .5 to 1.7 and that was tested with other use on the line.

result!
SUrprised you get Jack all the way out there - you off Bradwell Abbey or Newport Pag?
Bradwell Abbey,  5.885k, away from it!  Originally couldn't get anything, then went on the extended reach trial and have had 512 since.  Just tested the new adsl +2 again 1.9mb!

Still got to fit the new filtered NTE, but a bit perplexed with the setup.  2 blue wires connected to the back plate, orange wires disconnected (but from where I have no idea!), and no extensions off the master, but there are other extensions around the house.

No idea where these are branched from, I really want a new line into the master and run everything from there, but need to locate the spur first.
Yeah, thought it would be Bradwell Abbey.

On the upside, as BT do a lot of their testing in MK, its very well optimised in that area :y

From memory, that era of housing in MK, line comes in bin cupboard, and is crimped straight through to internal wiring, often to a plate in hallway

Sadly, no bin cupboard!  BT have looked for the entry point before without success,  when I got ISDN installed years back, they searched for ages, then decided it was easier to dig up the drive and run another cable :o  Shame they didn't replace the normal pstn one at the same time. :(
Title: Re: ADSL +2 Question
Post by: TheBoy on 25 June 2009, 21:18:41
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Just got round to checking the master socket.  Looks like a standard one, but only the blue wires connected,  in fact only possible to connect two wires.  Now wondering if this is a standard faceplate or not.  I would have thought that there should be 4 connecting points (blue pair for Data, orange pair for Bell)?

Anyway, I have just ordered the master socket from adlsnation, so will see what I get.

cheers
Silly arse, I have a couple spare ;)

Bugger!  Still, if it makes a difference, then worth £12.  The line speed is already quicker, gone from .5 to 1.7 and that was tested with other use on the line.

result!
SUrprised you get Jack all the way out there - you off Bradwell Abbey or Newport Pag?
Bradwell Abbey,  5.885k, away from it!  Originally couldn't get anything, then went on the extended reach trial and have had 512 since.  Just tested the new adsl +2 again 1.9mb!

Still got to fit the new filtered NTE, but a bit perplexed with the setup.  2 blue wires connected to the back plate, orange wires disconnected (but from where I have no idea!), and no extensions off the master, but there are other extensions around the house.

No idea where these are branched from, I really want a new line into the master and run everything from there, but need to locate the spur first.
Yeah, thought it would be Bradwell Abbey.

On the upside, as BT do a lot of their testing in MK, its very well optimised in that area :y

From memory, that era of housing in MK, line comes in bin cupboard, and is crimped straight through to internal wiring, often to a plate in hallway

Sadly, no bin cupboard!  BT have looked for the entry point before without success,  when I got ISDN installed years back, they searched for ages, then decided it was easier to dig up the drive and run another cable :o  Shame they didn't replace the normal pstn one at the same time. :(
hmmm, another builder's bodge then I guess  :'(
Title: Re: ADSL +2 Question
Post by: KillerWatt on 25 June 2009, 21:35:11
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Just got round to checking the master socket.  Looks like a standard one, but only the blue wires connected,  in fact only possible to connect two wires.  Now wondering if this is a standard faceplate or not.  I would have thought that there should be 4 connecting points (blue pair for Data, orange pair for Bell)?

Anyway, I have just ordered the master socket from adlsnation, so will see what I get.

cheers
Master socket only has 2 wires connected (normally blue & white/blue).
The "bell" wire only comes in to play for extension sockets, and this is taken from terminal 3 of the master socket and connected to terminal 3 in all slave (extension) sockets.
And if your phones are new enough not to need it, disconnecting the ringing wire (3, Orange/Wh), can get you a better SNR, ultimately (after a few days) better sync rate or better stability.
Absolutely spot on  :y

You can also replace that slave socket with a master, and that will also negate the need for the bell wire if the phone isn't new enough.
Title: Re: ADSL +2 Question
Post by: TheBoy on 25 June 2009, 21:37:10
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Just got round to checking the master socket.  Looks like a standard one, but only the blue wires connected,  in fact only possible to connect two wires.  Now wondering if this is a standard faceplate or not.  I would have thought that there should be 4 connecting points (blue pair for Data, orange pair for Bell)?

Anyway, I have just ordered the master socket from adlsnation, so will see what I get.

cheers
Master socket only has 2 wires connected (normally blue & white/blue).
The "bell" wire only comes in to play for extension sockets, and this is taken from terminal 3 of the master socket and connected to terminal 3 in all slave (extension) sockets.
And if your phones are new enough not to need it, disconnecting the ringing wire (3, Orange/Wh), can get you a better SNR, ultimately (after a few days) better sync rate or better stability.
Absolutely spot on  :y

You can also replace that slave socket with a master, and that will also negate the need for the bell wire if the phone isn't new enough.
That can cause SNR issues as well, so wouldn't do that, change the phone instead.  Also, if the phone is that old, it is likely to be pulse dialling only, and that will piss everyone in the house off when you dial ;)