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Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: Lizzie_Zoom on 07 August 2009, 17:34:09

Title: Insignificant Human Life?
Post by: Lizzie_Zoom on 07 August 2009, 17:34:09
How insignificant are we in the universe?

Check this out:

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I34FNr_peUk[/media]

 8-) 8-) 8-) 8-) 8-) 8-) 8-) 8-)
Title: Re: Insignificant Human Life?
Post by: MikeDundee on 07 August 2009, 17:56:36
That's all fine, but where does space end, or does it end at all? :-/
Title: Re: Insignificant Human Life?
Post by: HolyCount on 07 August 2009, 18:01:31
Quote
That's all fine, but where does space end, or does it end at all? :-/

and if it does end -- what do you fall out into ? .... more space ???  :-?
Title: Re: Insignificant Human Life?
Post by: MikeDundee on 07 August 2009, 18:04:52
Quote
Quote
That's all fine, but where does space end, or does it end at all? :-/

and if it does end -- what do you fall out into ? .... more space ???  :-?

Infinity and beyond ::).......that question is always one that I sometimes ask myself and it seem endless :-X
Title: Re: Insignificant Human Life?
Post by: Dishevelled Den on 07 August 2009, 18:47:46
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Quote
Quote
That's all fine, but where does space end, or does it end at all? :-/

and if it does end -- what do you fall out into ? .... more space ???  :-?

Infinity and beyond ::).......that question is always one that I sometimes ask myself and it seem endless :-X



....and of course how did it all start? - what was there before the 'Big Bang' :-/ :-/
Title: Re: Insignificant Human Life?
Post by: Brick Tamland on 07 August 2009, 18:50:09
Quote
Quote
That's all fine, but where does space end, or does it end at all? :-/

and if it does end -- what do you fall out into ? .... more space ???  :-?

I'll put that issue to bed once and for all :y

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nF1AlVyIczY[/media]
Title: Re: Insignificant Human Life?
Post by: Dishevelled Den on 07 August 2009, 18:54:11
Quote
Quote
Quote
That's all fine, but where does space end, or does it end at all? :-/

and if it does end -- what do you fall out into ? .... more space ???  :-?

I'll put that issue to bed once and for all :y

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nF1AlVyIczY[/media]



....great find, BT  8-) 8-) :y :y :y
Title: Re: Insignificant Human Life?
Post by: MikeDundee on 07 August 2009, 18:56:36
So what was there before the big bang, yet again probably space :-?
Title: Re: Insignificant Human Life?
Post by: Dishevelled Den on 07 August 2009, 19:04:54
Quote
So what was there before the big bang, yet again probably space :-?


...exactly Mike -who knows - and how did that space come into existence?
Title: Re: Insignificant Human Life?
Post by: MikeDundee on 07 August 2009, 19:09:35
Some interesting theories ::)

Quote:
Not everything ends. Matter can always be divided into smaller portions. You can always make a more precise measurment. My girlfriend will never ever stop nagging me. Not everything has to end. Technically speaking it can't end can it?

Quote:
space is infinite, however we say that space has edges, these edges are the furthest bit of matter in a certain direction. beyond that is matterless space - a true vacum. so when a comet or something goes past the 'edge' of space, it creates a new edge.
(i dont know how matterless waves and particles e.g. EM radiation and photons/phonons fit into this though)

Quote:
This may sound stupid, but mathmatically speaking wouldn't it be an infinitely impossibility for there to be a finite amount of matter in a universe that goes on forever. There would eventually (in theory) have to be something else.

Those edges would just be our universes edges, right?

Title: Re: Insignificant Human Life?
Post by: Dishevelled Den on 07 August 2009, 19:35:41
Quote
Some interesting theories ::)

Quote:
Not everything ends. Matter can always be divided into smaller portions. You can always make a more precise measurment. My girlfriend will never ever stop nagging me. Not everything has to end. Technically speaking it can't end can it?

Quote:
space is infinite, however we say that space has edges, these edges are the furthest bit of matter in a certain direction. beyond that is matterless space - a true vacum. so when a comet or something goes past the 'edge' of space, it creates a new edge.
(i dont know how matterless waves and particles e.g. EM radiation and photons/phonons fit into this though)

Quote:
This may sound stupid, but mathmatically speaking wouldn't it be an infinitely impossibility for there to be a finite amount of matter in a universe that goes on forever. There would eventually (in theory) have to be something else.

Those edges would just be our universes edges, right?



....this is where theoretical physics becomes so convoluted that is seems there can be no definite answer to such questions.

What does seem reasonable is that the term infinite means exactly that and only when such questions are posed, does it begin to have some form of tractable meaning.

Over time many great minds have considered this and when all is said and done, the result of their musings still rests on a theory that may never be satisfactorily proven.
Title: Re: Insignificant Human Life?
Post by: MikeDundee on 07 August 2009, 19:45:20
Quote
Quote
Some interesting theories ::)

Quote:
Not everything ends. Matter can always be divided into smaller portions. You can always make a more precise measurment. My girlfriend will never ever stop nagging me. Not everything has to end. Technically speaking it can't end can it?

Quote:
space is infinite, however we say that space has edges, these edges are the furthest bit of matter in a certain direction. beyond that is matterless space - a true vacum. so when a comet or something goes past the 'edge' of space, it creates a new edge.
(i dont know how matterless waves and particles e.g. EM radiation and photons/phonons fit into this though)

Quote:
This may sound stupid, but mathmatically speaking wouldn't it be an infinitely impossibility for there to be a finite amount of matter in a universe that goes on forever. There would eventually (in theory) have to be something else.

Those edges would just be our universes edges, right?



....this is where theoretical physics becomes so convoluted that is seems there can be no definite answer to such questions.

What does seem reasonable is that the term infinite means exactly that and only when such questions are posed, does it begin to have some form of tractable meaning.

Over time many great minds have considered this and when all is said and done, the result of their musings still rests on a theory that may never be satisfactorily proven.

Exactly my point, unless some of those aliens do touch base and tell us otherwise :o
Title: Re: Insignificant Human Life?
Post by: Brick Tamland on 07 August 2009, 19:49:23
Quote
Quote
Quote
Some interesting theories ::)

Quote:
Not everything ends. Matter can always be divided into smaller portions. You can always make a more precise measurment. My girlfriend will never ever stop nagging me. Not everything has to end. Technically speaking it can't end can it?

Quote:
space is infinite, however we say that space has edges, these edges are the furthest bit of matter in a certain direction. beyond that is matterless space - a true vacum. so when a comet or something goes past the 'edge' of space, it creates a new edge.
(i dont know how matterless waves and particles e.g. EM radiation and photons/phonons fit into this though)

Quote:
This may sound stupid, but mathmatically speaking wouldn't it be an infinitely impossibility for there to be a finite amount of matter in a universe that goes on forever. There would eventually (in theory) have to be something else.

Those edges would just be our universes edges, right?



....this is where theoretical physics becomes so convoluted that is seems there can be no definite answer to such questions.

What does seem reasonable is that the term infinite means exactly that and only when such questions are posed, does it begin to have some form of tractable meaning.

Over time many great minds have considered this and when all is said and done, the result of their musings still rests on a theory that may never be satisfactorily proven.

Exactly my point, unless some of those aliens do touch base and tell us otherwise :o

I'll volunteer myself to be put in suspended animation and shot to the edge of the universe ::)
Title: Re: Insignificant Human Life?
Post by: Dishevelled Den on 07 August 2009, 19:52:45
Quote
Quote
Quote
Some interesting theories ::)

Quote:
Not everything ends. Matter can always be divided into smaller portions. You can always make a more precise measurment. My girlfriend will never ever stop nagging me. Not everything has to end. Technically speaking it can't end can it?

Quote:
space is infinite, however we say that space has edges, these edges are the furthest bit of matter in a certain direction. beyond that is matterless space - a true vacum. so when a comet or something goes past the 'edge' of space, it creates a new edge.
(i dont know how matterless waves and particles e.g. EM radiation and photons/phonons fit into this though)

Quote:
This may sound stupid, but mathmatically speaking wouldn't it be an infinitely impossibility for there to be a finite amount of matter in a universe that goes on forever. There would eventually (in theory) have to be something else.

Those edges would just be our universes edges, right?



....this is where theoretical physics becomes so convoluted that is seems there can be no definite answer to such questions.

What does seem reasonable is that the term infinite means exactly that and only when such questions are posed, does it begin to have some form of tractable meaning.

Over time many great minds have considered this and when all is said and done, the result of their musings still rests on a theory that may never be satisfactorily proven.

Exactly my point, unless some of those aliens do touch base and tell us otherwise :o


Now that would provoke a very interesting thread ;)
Title: Re: Insignificant Human Life?
Post by: Jimbob on 07 August 2009, 19:53:41
I think this sums it up beautifully  :y


[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWVshkVF0SY[/media]
Title: Re: Insignificant Human Life?
Post by: Dishevelled Den on 07 August 2009, 19:55:55
Quote
I think this sums it up beautifully  :y


[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWVshkVF0SY[/media]



Splendid Jb :y :y
Title: Re: Insignificant Human Life?
Post by: MikeDundee on 07 August 2009, 20:05:20
Quote
I think this sums it up beautifully  :y


[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWVshkVF0SY[/media]

Excellent :y.......but still does'nt really answer the unaswerable question ::) ;D ;D
Title: Re: Insignificant Human Life?
Post by: amigov6 on 07 August 2009, 20:12:29
Number 46.
Title: Re: Insignificant Human Life?
Post by: Jimbob on 07 August 2009, 20:16:03
Quote
That's all fine, but where does space end, or does it end at all? :-/

had it explained it to me a long time ago....

think of the universe as a balloon being blown up

long long time ago, tiny bit of rubber, everything inside it,

big bang happens

balloon starts being inflated, into the void aroud.

universe expands, and everything in it also starts moving further and further apart from everything else.  So you have the opposite end of the universe, still the opposite ends, but moving further and further apart.  lots of collisions of all things inside, forms planets, stars and galaxys.

So universe still expanding from original bang, and out edge of universe still moving further away from 'us'.
Title: Re: Insignificant Human Life?
Post by: Jimbob on 07 August 2009, 20:16:55
Quote
Number 46.


close, just 4 out.

42  :y
Title: Re: Insignificant Human Life?
Post by: Dishevelled Den on 07 August 2009, 20:29:22
Quote
Quote
That's all fine, but where does space end, or does it end at all? :-/

had it explained it to me a long time ago....

think of the universe as a balloon being blown up

long long time ago, tiny bit of rubber, everything inside it,

big bang happens

balloon starts being inflated, into the void aroud.

universe expands, and everything in it also starts moving further and further apart from everything else.  So you have the opposite end of the universe, still the opposite ends, but moving further and further apart.  lots of collisions of all things inside, forms planets, stars and galaxys.

So universe still expanding from original bang, and out edge of universe still moving further away from 'us'.


......while that explains the BB theory Jb - in the analogy, where did the rubber come from and who or what supplied the breath? :-/ :-/
Title: Re: Insignificant Human Life?
Post by: MikeDundee on 07 August 2009, 20:29:41
Quote
Quote
That's all fine, but where does space end, or does it end at all? :-/

had it explained it to me a long time ago....

think of the universe as a balloon being blown up

Thats good ::)

long long time ago, tiny bit of rubber, everything inside it,

Like rubber ::)

big bang happens

Love big bangs ;)

balloon starts being inflated, into the void aroud.

Who done that then ::)



universe expands, and everything in it also starts moving further and further apart from everything else.  So you have the opposite end of the universe, still the opposite ends, but moving further and further apart.  lots of collisions of all things inside, forms planets, stars and galaxys.

You forgot one thing ::)

So universe still expanding from original bang, and out edge of universe still moving further away from 'us'.
Title: Re: Insignificant Human Life?
Post by: Dishevelled Den on 07 August 2009, 20:50:06
The following is an excerpt from a paper writen in 2001 by Ross Amans and Dan Ragland entitled Origin of the Universe theories;


'We have seen that throughout history man has made attempts to explain how the
universe came into existence. Many ideas and conjectures have come and gone while
some remain. Throughout the ages many of these ideas have been disproved yet many
continue to undergo scientific investigation. This report has shown mainstream
theories ranging from the big bang to creation. Furthermore it has shown that due to
the existence of increasingly numerous “origin of the universe” theories it is important
that we approach each theory skeptically. We have seen several techniques that can
and should be used when evaluating these theories. It is the hope of the authors that
after you read this report you will carefully examine origin of the universe theories and
apply the techniques we have illustrated as your consider the validly, truthfulness, and
accuracy of each theory.'


In short it seems that the question is so complex even the most scholarly can't satisfactorily explain it so it leaves the individual to ponder the great question.


Full paper here;

http://web.cecs.pdx.edu/~danr/ph367u/report.pdf
Title: Re: Insignificant Human Life?
Post by: MikeDundee on 07 August 2009, 20:52:59
Quote
The following is an excerpt from a paper writen in 2001 by Ross Amans and Dan Ragland entitled Origin of the Universe theories;


'We have seen that throughout history man has made attempts to explain how the
universe came into existence. Many ideas and conjectures have come and gone while
some remain. Throughout the ages many of these ideas have been disproved yet many
continue to undergo scientific investigation. This report has shown mainstream
theories ranging from the big bang to creation. Furthermore it has shown that due to
the existence of increasingly numerous “origin of the universe” theories it is important
that we approach each theory skeptically. We have seen several techniques that can
and should be used when evaluating these theories. It is the hope of the authors that
after you read this report you will carefully examine origin of the universe theories and
apply the techniques we have illustrated as your consider the validly, truthfulness, and
accuracy of each theory.'


In short it seems that the question is so complex even the most scholarly can't satisfactorily explain it so it leaves the individual to ponder the great question.


Full paper here;

http://web.cecs.pdx.edu/~danr/ph367u/report.pdf

Rest my case :y..........but still leaves one unanswered question from my query to Jimbob's post ::)
Title: Re: Insignificant Human Life?
Post by: Jimbob on 07 August 2009, 20:58:44
lots missing!

which one you thinking of?

life?
black holes?
dark matter?
Title: Re: Insignificant Human Life?
Post by: amigov6 on 07 August 2009, 21:06:10
Quote
Quote
Number 46.


close, just 4 out.

42  :y
I wondered when i wrote it. I actually read the book & still searching ebay for a bagel? fish to stick in my ear.
   Anyway, off to pour another pan galactic gargle blaster!!!! 8-)
Title: Re: Insignificant Human Life?
Post by: Jimbob on 07 August 2009, 21:12:36
Quote
Quote
Quote
Number 46.


close, just 4 out.

42  :y
I wondered when i wrote it. I actually read the book & still searching ebay for a bagel? fish to stick in my ear.
   Anyway, off to pour another pan galactic gargle blaster!!!! 8-)

babelfish  :y


and they exist
http://babelfish.yahoo.com/
Title: Re: Insignificant Human Life?
Post by: MikeDundee on 07 August 2009, 21:27:54
Quote
lots missing!

which one you thinking of?

life?
black holes?
dark matter?


universe expands, and everything in it also starts moving further and further apart from everything else.  So you have the opposite end of the universe, still the opposite ends, but moving further and further apart.  lots of collisions of all things inside, forms planets, stars and galaxys........and then there was........
Vauxhall Omega Owners Forum ;D ;D.........how did that happen then ::)

Title: Re: Insignificant Human Life?
Post by: JK on 07 August 2009, 21:57:51
May be those god supporters have a point ,is it possible that there is a god and it was him who made the universe ,i personally doubt it but if i was then on my death bed ,I'm afraid my hypocrisy knows no bounds, and would be asking for forgiveness for buying a rover lol, its all above my head , but i don't believe we are alone in the universe, but that is   IMOA, however what life form it would be is another matter.Is it not true that if there is no solid proof then the simplest answer is usually the right one ,if so then it is one for the god supporters ,and now back to licking the window , as my mother always said i was a special child ---JK    :-/:y
Title: Re: Insignificant Human Life?
Post by: Vamps on 07 August 2009, 22:41:09
Quote
May be those god supporters have a point ,is it possible that there is a god and it was him who made the universe ,i personally doubt it but if i was then on my death bed ,I'm afraid my hypocrisy knows no bounds, and would be asking for forgiveness for buying a rover lol, its all above my head , but i don't believe we are alone in the universe, but that is   IMOA, however what life form it would be is another matter.Is it not true that if there is no solid proof then the simplest answer is usually the right one ,if so then it is one for the god supporters ,and now back to licking the window , as my mother always said i was a special child ---JK    :-/:y

Ah, now that explains a couple of things....  :D :D
Title: Re: Insignificant Human Life?
Post by: Lizzie_Zoom on 08 August 2009, 11:25:59
I have been watching my thread expand just like the universe, and it has been fascinating to read the various observations which none of us can prove or disprove, other that to say our section of the 'universe' is still travelling outwards from the big bang of 13.7 - 14 billion years ago. 

Thomas Hobbes (1588 - 1679) described this action, without the fuller scientific knowledge we have now, as "matter in motion", forever travelling through the universe until deflected by human actions on earth.

However just consider that everything in this universe is formed from atoms, and each atom is 99.9% nothing, empty, zilch!!  Therefore, whatever we think the universe is, containing those stars and planets mentioned in that wonderful piece of film in my opening post, it IS 99.9% NOTHING!!!!!!  ::) ::) ::) ::) ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D 8-) 8-) 8-) 8-)

The scale of this though is beyond human comprehension given our view of scale and dimension.  But, what if there is some supreme being, I believe it is God, who has this globe on his/her table..........the globe containing the whole universe...................all in tiny scale!! ::) ::) ::) ;) ;)

Food for thought?? :D :D :D :D
Title: Re: Insignificant Human Life?
Post by: Dishevelled Den on 08 August 2009, 11:30:12
Quote
I have been watching my thread expand just like the universe, and it has been fascinating to read the various observations which none of us can prove or disprove, other that to say our section of the 'universe' is still travelling outwards from the big bang of 13.7 - 14 billion years ago. 

Thomas Hobbes (1588 - 1679) described this action, without the fuller scientific knowledge we have now, as "matter in motion", forever travelling through the universe until deflected by human actions on earth.

However just consider that everything in this universe is formed from atoms, and each atom is 99.9% nothing, empty, zilch!!  Therefore, whatever we think the universe is, containing those stars and planets mentioned in that wonderful piece of film in my opening post, it IS 99.9% NOTHING!!!!!!  ::) ::) ::) ::) ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D 8-) 8-) 8-) 8-)


...hence the insignificance of it all? :-/ :-/
Title: Re: Insignificant Human Life?
Post by: Lizzie_Zoom on 08 August 2009, 12:13:54
Quote
Quote
I have been watching my thread expand just like the universe, and it has been fascinating to read the various observations which none of us can prove or disprove, other that to say our section of the 'universe' is still travelling outwards from the big bang of 13.7 - 14 billion years ago. 

Thomas Hobbes (1588 - 1679) described this action, without the fuller scientific knowledge we have now, as "matter in motion", forever travelling through the universe until deflected by human actions on earth.

However just consider that everything in this universe is formed from atoms, and each atom is 99.9% nothing, empty, zilch!!  Therefore, whatever we think the universe is, containing those stars and planets mentioned in that wonderful piece of film in my opening post, it IS 99.9% NOTHING!!!!!!  ::) ::) ::) ::) ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D 8-) 8-) 8-) 8-)


...hence the insignificance of it all? :-/ :-/

EXACTLY my point Zulu!  We are insignificant in the scheme and scale of the universe, but in the dimension of our creator we are very much the focus.  We must stop though trying to evalute our existance in terms of human time, distance, scale and dimensions.  To the rest of the universe they do not mean anything at all!! :D :D 8-) 8-) 8-)


Just think to a microbe the earth is its universe and is never ending!! ;) ;) ;) ;) ;)
Title: Re: Insignificant Human Life?
Post by: HolyCount on 08 August 2009, 12:27:36
could we actually be a colony in soome gigantic petri-dissh somewhere ------ waiting for a trip to the autoclave ???  :o

Or -- one of my favourite ponderings --- if you equate the stars, moons and planets, etcetera, to the atoms, electrons, neutrons et al we could be a molecule, or some such, hidden away in another gigantic reality. Maybe in the depths of some giants desk.
Title: Re: Insignificant Human Life?
Post by: Lizzie_Zoom on 08 August 2009, 12:55:03
Quote
could we actually be a colony in soome gigantic petri-dissh somewhere ------ waiting for a trip to the autoclave ???  :o

Or -- one of my favourite ponderings --- if you equate the stars, moons and planets, etcetera, to the atoms, electrons, neutrons et al we could be a molecule, or some such, hidden away in another gigantic reality. Maybe in the depths of some giants desk.


Or HC, getting really deep now, does everything around us represent some gigantic collective 'reality', that only exists due to our brains telling us it does?? ::) ::)

Quantum physics certainly suggests this could be so, with the infamous atom being at the centre of the puzzle, being capable of some pretty fantastic properties that defy all logic and laws of physics!! ::) ::) ;) ;)
Title: Re: Insignificant Human Life?
Post by: HolyCount on 08 August 2009, 13:44:05
Quote
Quote
could we actually be a colony in soome gigantic petri-dissh somewhere ------ waiting for a trip to the autoclave ???  :o

Or -- one of my favourite ponderings --- if you equate the stars, moons and planets, etcetera, to the atoms, electrons, neutrons et al we could be a molecule, or some such, hidden away in another gigantic reality. Maybe in the depths of some giants desk.


Or HC, getting really deep now, does everything around us represent some gigantic collective 'reality', that only exists due to our brains telling us it does?? ::) ::)

Quantum physics certainly suggests this could be so, with the infamous atom being at the centre of the puzzle, being capable of some pretty fantastic properties that defy all logic and laws of physics!! ::) ::) ;) ;)


That goes on to pose the question of what "reality" actually is .... for instance .... during the apparent daylight hours, when we consider ourselves awake, are we actually in a dream like reality and our physical bodies ( if such there are) are really asleep somewhere. Then ... when we "sleeep" in the waking reality, are we actually waking into the dream reality  :o :o

That, however, is best discussed over several bottles of wine ..........
Title: Re: Insignificant Human Life?
Post by: Brick Tamland on 08 August 2009, 13:52:22
Quote
Quote
Quote
could we actually be a colony in soome gigantic petri-dissh somewhere ------ waiting for a trip to the autoclave ???  :o

Or -- one of my favourite ponderings --- if you equate the stars, moons and planets, etcetera, to the atoms, electrons, neutrons et al we could be a molecule, or some such, hidden away in another gigantic reality. Maybe in the depths of some giants desk.


Or HC, getting really deep now, does everything around us represent some gigantic collective 'reality', that only exists due to our brains telling us it does?? ::) ::)

Quantum physics certainly suggests this could be so, with the infamous atom being at the centre of the puzzle, being capable of some pretty fantastic properties that defy all logic and laws of physics!! ::) ::) ;) ;)


That goes on to pose the question of what "reality" actually is .... for instance .... during the apparent daylight hours, when we consider ourselves awake, are we actually in a dream like reality and our physical bodies ( if such there are) are really asleep somewhere. Then ... when we "sleeep" in the waking reality, are we actually waking into the dream reality  :o :o

That, however, is best discussed over several bottles of wine ..........

There was a film about that. I think it was called "The Matrix" :D
Title: Re: Insignificant Human Life?
Post by: HolyCount on 08 August 2009, 13:55:54
Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
could we actually be a colony in soome gigantic petri-dissh somewhere ------ waiting for a trip to the autoclave ???  :o

Or -- one of my favourite ponderings --- if you equate the stars, moons and planets, etcetera, to the atoms, electrons, neutrons et al we could be a molecule, or some such, hidden away in another gigantic reality. Maybe in the depths of some giants desk.


Or HC, getting really deep now, does everything around us represent some gigantic collective 'reality', that only exists due to our brains telling us it does?? ::) ::)

Quantum physics certainly suggests this could be so, with the infamous atom being at the centre of the puzzle, being capable of some pretty fantastic properties that defy all logic and laws of physics!! ::) ::) ;) ;)


That goes on to pose the question of what "reality" actually is .... for instance .... during the apparent daylight hours, when we consider ourselves awake, are we actually in a dream like reality and our physical bodies ( if such there are) are really asleep somewhere. Then ... when we "sleeep" in the waking reality, are we actually waking into the dream reality  :o :o

That, however, is best discussed over several bottles of wine ..........

There was a film about that. I think it was called "The Matrix" :D


Was THAT what it was alll about ????  TBH never paid attention all the way through !!!!
Title: Re: Insignificant Human Life?
Post by: Lizzie_Zoom on 08 August 2009, 14:06:36
Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
could we actually be a colony in soome gigantic petri-dissh somewhere ------ waiting for a trip to the autoclave ???  :o

Or -- one of my favourite ponderings --- if you equate the stars, moons and planets, etcetera, to the atoms, electrons, neutrons et al we could be a molecule, or some such, hidden away in another gigantic reality. Maybe in the depths of some giants desk.


Or HC, getting really deep now, does everything around us represent some gigantic collective 'reality', that only exists due to our brains telling us it does?? ::) ::)

Quantum physics certainly suggests this could be so, with the infamous atom being at the centre of the puzzle, being capable of some pretty fantastic properties that defy all logic and laws of physics!! ::) ::) ;) ;)


That goes on to pose the question of what "reality" actually is .... for instance .... during the apparent daylight hours, when we consider ourselves awake, are we actually in a dream like reality and our physical bodies ( if such there are) are really asleep somewhere. Then ... when we "sleeep" in the waking reality, are we actually waking into the dream reality  :o :o

That, however, is best discussed over several bottles of wine ..........

There was a film about that. I think it was called "The Matrix" :D


Was THAT what it was alll about ????  TBH never paid attention all the way through !!!!


That film was about a computer generated reality.  It is a different and 'smaller' theory than the Quantum Enigma, that is based on the nature of atoms throughout whatever the universe is. :-/ :-/ :-/

Now actually HC you are right, but it does need a few dozen bottles of wine and much talk to begin to grasp the concept, otherwise you can go mad just thinking about it!! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;) ;)
Title: Re: Insignificant Human Life?
Post by: HolyCount on 08 August 2009, 14:33:40
Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
could we actually be a colony in soome gigantic petri-dissh somewhere ------ waiting for a trip to the autoclave ???  :o

Or -- one of my favourite ponderings --- if you equate the stars, moons and planets, etcetera, to the atoms, electrons, neutrons et al we could be a molecule, or some such, hidden away in another gigantic reality. Maybe in the depths of some giants desk.


Or HC, getting really deep now, does everything around us represent some gigantic collective 'reality', that only exists due to our brains telling us it does?? ::) ::)

Quantum physics certainly suggests this could be so, with the infamous atom being at the centre of the puzzle, being capable of some pretty fantastic properties that defy all logic and laws of physics!! ::) ::) ;) ;)


That goes on to pose the question of what "reality" actually is .... for instance .... during the apparent daylight hours, when we consider ourselves awake, are we actually in a dream like reality and our physical bodies ( if such there are) are really asleep somewhere. Then ... when we "sleeep" in the waking reality, are we actually waking into the dream reality  :o :o

That, however, is best discussed over several bottles of wine ..........

There was a film about that. I think it was called "The Matrix" :D


Was THAT what it was alll about ????  TBH never paid attention all the way through !!!!


That film was about a computer generated reality.  It is a different and 'smaller' theory than the Quantum Enigma, that is based on the nature of atoms throughout whatever the universe is. :-/ :-/ :-/

Now actually HC you are right, but it does need a few dozen bottles of wine and much talk to begin to grasp the concept, otherwise you can go mad just thinking about it!! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;) ;)


Too late pour moi, methinks  :D :D
Title: Re: Insignificant Human Life?
Post by: Lizzie_Zoom on 08 August 2009, 14:44:33
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could we actually be a colony in soome gigantic petri-dissh somewhere ------ waiting for a trip to the autoclave ???  :o

Or -- one of my favourite ponderings --- if you equate the stars, moons and planets, etcetera, to the atoms, electrons, neutrons et al we could be a molecule, or some such, hidden away in another gigantic reality. Maybe in the depths of some giants desk.


Or HC, getting really deep now, does everything around us represent some gigantic collective 'reality', that only exists due to our brains telling us it does?? ::) ::)

Quantum physics certainly suggests this could be so, with the infamous atom being at the centre of the puzzle, being capable of some pretty fantastic properties that defy all logic and laws of physics!! ::) ::) ;) ;)


That goes on to pose the question of what "reality" actually is .... for instance .... during the apparent daylight hours, when we consider ourselves awake, are we actually in a dream like reality and our physical bodies ( if such there are) are really asleep somewhere. Then ... when we "sleeep" in the waking reality, are we actually waking into the dream reality  :o :o

That, however, is best discussed over several bottles of wine ..........

There was a film about that. I think it was called "The Matrix" :D


Was THAT what it was alll about ????  TBH never paid attention all the way through !!!!


That film was about a computer generated reality.  It is a different and 'smaller' theory than the Quantum Enigma, that is based on the nature of atoms throughout whatever the universe is. :-/ :-/ :-/

Now actually HC you are right, but it does need a few dozen bottles of wine and much talk to begin to grasp the concept, otherwise you can go mad just thinking about it!! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;) ;)


Too late pour moi, methinks  :D :D


In that case get those bottles of wine and the glasses out, I'll be around soon HC!!!! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;) ;)
Title: Re: Insignificant Human Life?
Post by: Dishevelled Den on 08 August 2009, 14:46:36
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could we actually be a colony in soome gigantic petri-dissh somewhere ------ waiting for a trip to the autoclave ???  :o

Or -- one of my favourite ponderings --- if you equate the stars, moons and planets, etcetera, to the atoms, electrons, neutrons et al we could be a molecule, or some such, hidden away in another gigantic reality. Maybe in the depths of some giants desk.


Or HC, getting really deep now, does everything around us represent some gigantic collective 'reality', that only exists due to our brains telling us it does?? ::) ::)

Quantum physics certainly suggests this could be so, with the infamous atom being at the centre of the puzzle, being capable of some pretty fantastic properties that defy all logic and laws of physics!! ::) ::) ;) ;)


That goes on to pose the question of what "reality" actually is .... for instance .... during the apparent daylight hours, when we consider ourselves awake, are we actually in a dream like reality and our physical bodies ( if such there are) are really asleep somewhere. Then ... when we "sleeep" in the waking reality, are we actually waking into the dream reality  :o :o

That, however, is best discussed over several bottles of wine ..........

There was a film about that. I think it was called "The Matrix" :D


Was THAT what it was alll about ????  TBH never paid attention all the way through !!!!


That film was about a computer generated reality.  It is a different and 'smaller' theory than the Quantum Enigma, that is based on the nature of atoms throughout whatever the universe is. :-/ :-/ :-/

Now actually HC you are right, but it does need a few dozen bottles of wine and much talk to begin to grasp the concept, otherwise you can go mad just thinking about it!! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;) ;)


Too late pour moi, methinks  :D :D


...the great thing about debating reality or the lack thereof is that it's never too late, as time is a notional concept within that reality IMHO ;)
Title: Re: Insignificant Human Life?
Post by: Lizzie_Zoom on 08 August 2009, 14:55:27
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could we actually be a colony in soome gigantic petri-dissh somewhere ------ waiting for a trip to the autoclave ???  :o

Or -- one of my favourite ponderings --- if you equate the stars, moons and planets, etcetera, to the atoms, electrons, neutrons et al we could be a molecule, or some such, hidden away in another gigantic reality. Maybe in the depths of some giants desk.


Or HC, getting really deep now, does everything around us represent some gigantic collective 'reality', that only exists due to our brains telling us it does?? ::) ::)

Quantum physics certainly suggests this could be so, with the infamous atom being at the centre of the puzzle, being capable of some pretty fantastic properties that defy all logic and laws of physics!! ::) ::) ;) ;)


That goes on to pose the question of what "reality" actually is .... for instance .... during the apparent daylight hours, when we consider ourselves awake, are we actually in a dream like reality and our physical bodies ( if such there are) are really asleep somewhere. Then ... when we "sleeep" in the waking reality, are we actually waking into the dream reality  :o :o

That, however, is best discussed over several bottles of wine ..........

There was a film about that. I think it was called "The Matrix" :D


Was THAT what it was alll about ????  TBH never paid attention all the way through !!!!


That film was about a computer generated reality.  It is a different and 'smaller' theory than the Quantum Enigma, that is based on the nature of atoms throughout whatever the universe is. :-/ :-/ :-/

Now actually HC you are right, but it does need a few dozen bottles of wine and much talk to begin to grasp the concept, otherwise you can go mad just thinking about it!! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;) ;)


Too late pour moi, methinks  :D :D


...the great thing about debating reality or the lack thereof is that it's never too late, as time is a notional concept within that reality IMHO ;)

............and may have passed already before we have experienced it in this perceived dimension, with all outcomes constructed within the initial creation of our known universe 13.7 billion years ago. :D :D ;) ;) ;)
Title: Re: Insignificant Human Life?
Post by: HolyCount on 08 August 2009, 15:18:22
This is getting worse than a Star Trek time portal paradox  :o ::)
Title: Re: Insignificant Human Life?
Post by: Lizzie_Zoom on 08 August 2009, 15:29:07
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This is getting worse than a Star Trek time portal paradox  :o ::)


Oh yes, good old Star Trek has a lot to answer for!! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;)

It certainly introduced the young me to the theories of parallel universes, and them being either positve or negative 8-) 8-) 8-) 8-) 8-) ;) ;)
Title: Re: Insignificant Human Life?
Post by: Dishevelled Den on 08 August 2009, 15:41:25
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could we actually be a colony in soome gigantic petri-dissh somewhere ------ waiting for a trip to the autoclave ???  :o

Or -- one of my favourite ponderings --- if you equate the stars, moons and planets, etcetera, to the atoms, electrons, neutrons et al we could be a molecule, or some such, hidden away in another gigantic reality. Maybe in the depths of some giants desk.


Or HC, getting really deep now, does everything around us represent some gigantic collective 'reality', that only exists due to our brains telling us it does?? ::) ::)

Quantum physics certainly suggests this could be so, with the infamous atom being at the centre of the puzzle, being capable of some pretty fantastic properties that defy all logic and laws of physics!! ::) ::) ;) ;)


That goes on to pose the question of what "reality" actually is .... for instance .... during the apparent daylight hours, when we consider ourselves awake, are we actually in a dream like reality and our physical bodies ( if such there are) are really asleep somewhere. Then ... when we "sleeep" in the waking reality, are we actually waking into the dream reality  :o :o

That, however, is best discussed over several bottles of wine ..........

There was a film about that. I think it was called "The Matrix" :D


Was THAT what it was alll about ????  TBH never paid attention all the way through !!!!


That film was about a computer generated reality.  It is a different and 'smaller' theory than the Quantum Enigma, that is based on the nature of atoms throughout whatever the universe is. :-/ :-/ :-/

Now actually HC you are right, but it does need a few dozen bottles of wine and much talk to begin to grasp the concept, otherwise you can go mad just thinking about it!! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;) ;)


Too late pour moi, methinks  :D :D


...the great thing about debating reality or the lack thereof is that it's never too late, as time is a notional concept within that reality IMHO ;)

............and may have passed already before we have experienced it in this perceived dimension, with all outcomes constructed within the initial creation of our known universe 13.7 billion years ago. :D :D ;) ;) ;)


...that's the one to provide fodder for fertile thought Ms Zoom :y
Title: Re: Insignificant Human Life?
Post by: Dishevelled Den on 08 August 2009, 15:44:46
This may provide an alternative view......



[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1QPll-TKaEE[/media]




Title: Re: Insignificant Human Life?
Post by: Lizzie_Zoom on 08 August 2009, 15:54:33
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This may provide an alternative view......



[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1QPll-TKaEE[/media]






..........and you must ask, "why not?"   Nothing can be proved or disproved on that one, and we could be part of a (marbles!!) game, as much as I feel we are all acting out a part in a play with our lives! :D :D ;) ;) ;) ;)
Title: Re: Insignificant Human Life?
Post by: Dishevelled Den on 08 August 2009, 16:00:59
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This may provide an alternative view......



[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1QPll-TKaEE[/media]






..........and you must ask, "why not?"   Nothing can be proved or disproved on that one, and we could be part of a (marbles!!) game, as much as I feel we are all acting out a part in a play with our lives! :D :D ;) ;) ;) ;)



....exactly Ms Zoom can any individual have control, to any realistic degree, over their destiny?
Title: Re: Insignificant Human Life?
Post by: albitz on 08 August 2009, 16:31:12
Human life is not insignificant within the universe,you are equally as significant as everything and everyone else because.......
You are a child of the universe.....
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pw-hGKruOYQ[/media]

Peace,love and vegetable rights man. ::) ;D ;D
Title: Re: Insignificant Human Life?
Post by: Lizzie_Zoom on 08 August 2009, 16:35:44
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This may provide an alternative view......



[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1QPll-TKaEE[/media]






..........and you must ask, "why not?"   Nothing can be proved or disproved on that one, and we could be part of a (marbles!!) game, as much as I feel we are all acting out a part in a play with our lives! :D :D ;) ;) ;) ;)



....exactly Ms Zoom can any individual have control, to any realistic degree, over their destiny?


No, although we make decisions that seem to us to set a course of life so often later it appears it was all destined anyway!  Key moments in our lives could mean life or death, but just as though death seems a moment away, "something" takes over to pass that crucial time away!

What is that "something" we do not really know, although some of us suspect divine intervention, as I'm sure I have experienced on at least one ocassion, others think it is just luck.

So we, the atoms of a continually changing universe move on, and even when dead our atoms still do! Like the copper from the boilers from the ex-LMS Duchesses ended up in the overhead wires over the West Coast line they have previously ruled!

But our spirit is / could be somewhere else; back before the big bang of this birth of life; outside of it in a parellel situation 'with God', or back in a cycle of reformatting for future existence in this or another dimension to give us further life experiece??

We cannot know, only experience this existence for what it is, if we really know what it is!! ;) ;) ;)
Title: Re: Insignificant Human Life?
Post by: HolyCount on 08 August 2009, 16:39:54
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This may provide an alternative view......



[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1QPll-TKaEE[/media]






..........and you must ask, "why not?"   Nothing can be proved or disproved on that one, and we could be part of a (marbles!!) game, as much as I feel we are all acting out a part in a play with our lives! :D :D ;) ;) ;) ;)



....exactly Ms Zoom can any individual have control, to any realistic degree, over their destiny?


No, although we make decisions that seem to us to set a course of life so often later it appears it was all destined anyway!  Key moments in our lives could mean life or death, but just as though death seems a moment away, "something" takes over to pass that crucial time away!

What is that "something" we do not really know, although some of us suspect divine intervention, as I'm sure I have experienced on at least one ocassion, others think it is just luck.

So we, the atoms of a continually changing universe move on, and even when dead our atoms still do! Like the copper from the boilers from the ex-LMS Duchesses ended up in the overhead wires over the West Coast line they have previously ruled!

But our spirit is / could be somewhere else; back before the big bang of this birth of life; outside of it in a parellel situation 'with God', or back in a cycle of reformatting for future existence in this or another dimension to give us further life experiece??

We cannot know, only experience this existence for what it is, if we really know what it is!! ;) ;) ;)


Do we, indeed, make those decisions, or are they, also, pre-ordained. Do we merely have the illusion of free choice ????
Title: Re: Insignificant Human Life?
Post by: Lizzie_Zoom on 08 August 2009, 16:44:13
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This may provide an alternative view......



[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1QPll-TKaEE[/media]






..........and you must ask, "why not?"   Nothing can be proved or disproved on that one, and we could be part of a (marbles!!) game, as much as I feel we are all acting out a part in a play with our lives! :D :D ;) ;) ;) ;)



....exactly Ms Zoom can any individual have control, to any realistic degree, over their destiny?


No, although we make decisions that seem to us to set a course of life so often later it appears it was all destined anyway!  Key moments in our lives could mean life or death, but just as though death seems a moment away, "something" takes over to pass that crucial time away!

What is that "something" we do not really know, although some of us suspect divine intervention, as I'm sure I have experienced on at least one ocassion, others think it is just luck.

So we, the atoms of a continually changing universe move on, and even when dead our atoms still do! Like the copper from the boilers from the ex-LMS Duchesses ended up in the overhead wires over the West Coast line they have previously ruled!

But our spirit is / could be somewhere else; back before the big bang of this birth of life; outside of it in a parellel situation 'with God', or back in a cycle of reformatting for future existence in this or another dimension to give us further life experiece??

We cannot know, only experience this existence for what it is, if we really know what it is!! ;) ;) ;)


Do we, indeed, make those decisions, or are they, also, pre-ordained. Do we merely have the illusion of free choice ????

In my sentence I make that very point, that although we seem to make our own decision, so often the outcome appears to have been destined anyway :D :D ;) ;)  I doubt that in fact we have true 'free choice', as all the lives around us, and those to come, are affected by 'our choices' which seem to have to go one way no matter what we do! :D :D :D
Title: Re: Insignificant Human Life?
Post by: Dishevelled Den on 08 August 2009, 16:54:33
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In my sentence I make that very point, that although we seem to make our own decision, so often the outcome appears to have been destined anyway :D :D ;) ;)  I doubt that in fact we have true 'free choice', as all the lives around us, and those to come, are affected by 'our choices' which seem to have to go one way no matter what we do! :D :D :D



...so who - or what - is pulling the strings?
Title: Re: Insignificant Human Life?
Post by: Lizzie_Zoom on 08 August 2009, 16:58:23
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In my sentence I make that very point, that although we seem to make our own decision, so often the outcome appears to have been destined anyway :D :D ;) ;)  I doubt that in fact we have true 'free choice', as all the lives around us, and those to come, are affected by 'our choices' which seem to have to go one way no matter what we do! :D :D :D



...so who - or what - is pulling the strings?


That, or it, is the big question that could unlock the answers to all the others!  I believe it is God, but others will believe other things, or nothing at all but nature itself! 8-) 8-) 8-) 8-) 8-) 8-)
Title: Re: Insignificant Human Life?
Post by: Dishevelled Den on 08 August 2009, 17:11:45
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In my sentence I make that very point, that although we seem to make our own decision, so often the outcome appears to have been destined anyway :D :D ;) ;)  I doubt that in fact we have true 'free choice', as all the lives around us, and those to come, are affected by 'our choices' which seem to have to go one way no matter what we do! :D :D :D



...so who - or what - is pulling the strings?


That, or it, is the big question that could unlock the answers to all the others!  I believe it is God, but others will believe other things, or nothing at all but nature itself! 8-) 8-) 8-) 8-) 8-) 8-)


...and so it may well rest on that very unfashionable term, faith.

Faith in what the individual perceives as being the most reasonable answer to the question of who we are and what are we doing in this lifetime - but the big question remains, how did it start?

That's the one that can't be answered so easily :(
Title: Re: Insignificant Human Life?
Post by: HolyCount on 08 August 2009, 17:15:35
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Quote
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This may provide an alternative view......



[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1QPll-TKaEE[/media]






..........and you must ask, "why not?"   Nothing can be proved or disproved on that one, and we could be part of a (marbles!!) game, as much as I feel we are all acting out a part in a play with our lives! :D :D ;) ;) ;) ;)



....exactly Ms Zoom can any individual have control, to any realistic degree, over their destiny?


No, although we make decisions that seem to us to set a course of life so often later it appears it was all destined anyway!  Key moments in our lives could mean life or death, but just as though death seems a moment away, "something" takes over to pass that crucial time away!

What is that "something" we do not really know, although some of us suspect divine intervention, as I'm sure I have experienced on at least one ocassion, others think it is just luck.

So we, the atoms of a continually changing universe move on, and even when dead our atoms still do! Like the copper from the boilers from the ex-LMS Duchesses ended up in the overhead wires over the West Coast line they have previously ruled!

But our spirit is / could be somewhere else; back before the big bang of this birth of life; outside of it in a parellel situation 'with God', or back in a cycle of reformatting for future existence in this or another dimension to give us further life experiece??

We cannot know, only experience this existence for what it is, if we really know what it is!! ;) ;) ;)


Do we, indeed, make those decisions, or are they, also, pre-ordained. Do we merely have the illusion of free choice ????

In my sentence I make that very point, that although we seem to make our own decision, so often the outcome appears to have been destined anyway :D :D ;) ;)  I doubt that in fact we have true 'free choice', as all the lives around us, and those to come, are affected by 'our choices' which seem to have to go one way no matter what we do! :D :D :D

My apologies, Lizzie. I read your statement as saying the outcome was pre ordained whatever the decision.
Title: Re: Insignificant Human Life?
Post by: Dishevelled Den on 08 August 2009, 17:25:56
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My apologies, Lizzie. I read your statement as saying the outcome was pre ordained whatever the decision.

...whenever you think about it HC - whether we like it or not- most things we do, or plan to do are subject to the very random nature of what we perceive to be this reality.

Can we therefore consider our place in this life, in so far as we see it to have some form of worth, to be merely likened to the result of the throw of a dice?
Title: Re: Insignificant Human Life?
Post by: HolyCount on 08 August 2009, 17:53:28
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My apologies, Lizzie. I read your statement as saying the outcome was pre ordained whatever the decision.

...whenever you think about it HC - whether we like it or not- most things we do, or plan to do are subject to the very random nature of what we perceive to be this reality.

Can we therefore consider our place in this life, in so far as we see it to have some form of worth, to be merely likened to the result of the throw of a dice?

Not so many centuries ago ( a mere nano second on the universal clock) there were no known "laws of physics". Gradually, over time, the human race has unlocked some of these secrets, some whereby a given occurence will have a predictable and unalterable outcome.  How many of these secrets are yet to be unlocked/ And .... how deep do the immutable "laws of physics" run ?

To be honest, in the days when life was lived almost entirely upon "faith" and the unquestioning belief that life was pre-ordained and all that we could do was make the best of it and live as well as we could (for some in the spiritual sense and for others more corporeal!), things seemed far less complicated.

Our "advances" have brought about many negatives as well as the pluses!
Title: Re: Insignificant Human Life?
Post by: albitz on 08 August 2009, 18:25:51
Anyone fancy a pint ? :y :D ;D
Title: Re: Insignificant Human Life?
Post by: HolyCount on 08 August 2009, 18:26:52
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Anyone fancy a pint ? :y :D ;D

Aaah ... the voice of reason  :y
Title: Re: Insignificant Human Life?
Post by: Lizzie_Zoom on 08 August 2009, 19:16:00
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Anyone fancy a pint ? :y :D ;D


Just think what can come out of a decision to have a pint or six....................hello junior!! :D :D :D :D   You didnt plan that when you set out, but "something" dictated otherwise!! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;) ;)

But yes please, I'll have a Cincano & lemonade please!! :D :D :D 8-) 8-) 8-)