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Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: Debs. on 19 September 2009, 22:09:50

Title: Freeview DSO: 2K...8K?
Post by: Debs. on 19 September 2009, 22:09:50
I receive freeview via an 'old' OnDigital STB: it`s a Pioneer DBR-T200GB and it works well; if a little slow changing channels.....but, upon reading the specs in the manual it states the DVB-T Demodulation to be "COFDM 2K, mode all mode, non-hierarchical".......I vaguely recollect reading that DSO was also to herald the change to 8K demodulation (which I understand to be not backwards compatible with 2K).

DSO begins here from Sept. 30th.......will my 2K only STB then be 'toast'?....is the change to 8K happening?........there`s general 'vagueness' on this issue and the disposition of older STB`s following DSO on the Freeview/DSO websites.

I was rather hoping to wait until the HD Freeview boxes came along, rather than have to buy another 'plain vanilla' DVB-T STB in the interim. :-/



Edit: I found this pdf list of '2K only' non DSO compliant equipment........I guess if (like mine) your STB or IDTv is on the list and the 8K change is 'on' then bad news.

http://www.digitaluk.co.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0015/21057/for_website_2K_only_models_ex_volumes_revised-15_Sept_09.pdf
Title: Re: Freeview DSO: 2K...8K?
Post by: Vamps on 19 September 2009, 22:45:11
To technical for me all that, though I think I got the jist..  :D :D we got a message up a couple of days ago about having to re-tune on 30th Sept.  ::) ::)
Title: Re: Freeview DSO: 2K...8K?
Post by: Dishevelled Den on 20 September 2009, 09:20:47
Quote
I receive freeview via an 'old' OnDigital STB: it`s a Pioneer DBR-T200GB and it works well; if a little slow changing channels.....but, upon reading the specs in the manual it states the DVB-T Demodulation to be "COFDM 2K, mode all mode, non-hierarchical".......I vaguely recollect reading that DSO was also to herald the change to 8K demodulation (which I understand to be not backwards compatible with 2K).

DSO begins here from Sept. 30th.......will my 2K only STB then be 'toast'?....is the change to 8K happening?........there`s general 'vagueness' on this issue and the disposition of older STB`s following DSO on the Freeview/DSO websites.

I was rather hoping to wait until the HD Freeview boxes came along, rather than have to buy another 'plain vanilla' DVB-T STB in the interim. :-/



Edit: I found this pdf list of '2K only' non DSO compliant equipment........I guess if (like mine) your STB or IDTv is on the list and the 8K change is 'on' then bad news.

http://www.digitaluk.co.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0015/21057/for_website_2K_only_models_ex_volumes_revised-15_Sept_09.pdf


Like most things at this stage of life you've found that your box, whilst perfectly serviceable, has been deemed to be redundant by others - 'new' technology being the cause most generally cited  ::) ::):(

Trying to keep on point it seems that you will have to change equipment to continue viewing, the following might help:

Information on the change (television service that is);

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=1084100

General information on Freeview (Terrestial);

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=13

I wouldn't hold your breath for HD Terrestrial so why not try
Freesat+ ( the PVR version of Freesat - unconnected to Sky) where you will be able to have a greater choice of output.

In this form although HD content is very limited at the moment, there will be much greater scope for its inclusion along with 5.1 digital sound than there will be on the terrestial service.  It does require a small dish aerial and suitable receiver however.  Some information here;

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=e12447b9de632872e48d1e4b3e7ca47a&daysprune=30&f=199







Title: Re: Freeview DSO: 2K...8K?
Post by: Nickbat on 20 September 2009, 09:33:44
"Like most things at this stage of life you've found that your box, whilst perfectly serviceable, has been deemed to be redundant by others..."

It was Debs that posted, so that's an unfortunate choice of noun there, Zulu!

 ;) ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Title: Re: Freeview DSO: 2K...8K?
Post by: Dishevelled Den on 20 September 2009, 09:47:21
Quote
"Like most things at this stage of life you've found that your box, whilst perfectly serviceable, has been deemed to be redundant by others"

Unfortunate choice of generic noun there, Zulu!

 ;) ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D



Who - me? ::) ::) ::) ;D ;D
Title: Re: Freeview DSO: 2K...8K?
Post by: Plomien on 20 September 2009, 09:51:35
you should have a software update option in the menus.
That resolved my little stb :y
Title: Re: Freeview DSO: 2K...8K?
Post by: Dishevelled Den on 20 September 2009, 09:51:45
Quote
"Like most things at this stage of life you've found that your box, whilst perfectly serviceable, has been deemed to be redundant by others..."

It was Debs that posted, so that's an unfortunate choice of noun there, Zulu!

 ;) ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D




Are you saying that Debs has an old box Nick? :o :o :o
Title: Re: Freeview DSO: 2K...8K?
Post by: Nickbat on 20 September 2009, 09:54:47
Quote
Quote
"Like most things at this stage of life you've found that your box, whilst perfectly serviceable, has been deemed to be redundant by others..."

It was Debs that posted, so that's an unfortunate choice of noun there, Zulu!

 ;) ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D




Are you saying that Debs has an old box Nick? :o :o :o

Me? Nooooo!  ;)

Note to self: never modify a joke after posting!  ;)
Title: Re: Freeview DSO: 2K...8K?
Post by: Dishevelled Den on 20 September 2009, 10:05:06
Quote
Quote
Quote
"Like most things at this stage of life you've found that your box, whilst perfectly serviceable, has been deemed to be redundant by others..."

It was Debs that posted, so that's an unfortunate choice of noun there, Zulu!

 ;) ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D




Are you saying that Debs has an old box Nick? :o :o :o

Me? Nooooo!  ;)

Note to self: never modify a joke after posting!  ;)

 ;D ;D ;D I'll gladly take the flak (if any)  :-/ :y
Title: Re: Freeview DSO: 2K...8K?
Post by: Martin_1962 on 20 September 2009, 10:05:49
Very annoying I think - found that two of our tuners are not 8k compatible despite being told they were.

Pace are crap though - a PVR I bought about 5 years ago will not work after DSO and they are not interested >:( >:(.

My advice - Freesat is mainly worthwhile for HD, SD doesn't seem as good as Freeview, but then I have a disk full of BBC HD stuff.

As to HD boxes, nothing worthwhile until next summer >:(, so I am going to suggest a simple one. Get a Humax or Topfield box, they are not cheap but are the best Freeview boxes, or try the TVonics - made by ex Sony DVB people. Just make sure the box records.

Can someone check sales of goods act please?
Title: Re: Freeview DSO: 2K...8K?
Post by: Nickbat on 20 September 2009, 10:38:00
Debs, isn't Freesat + HD PVR the way to go? That's the technology route I've been mulling over recently.  :y

http://www.freesat.co.uk/index.php?page=hd.Main
Title: Re: Freeview DSO: 2K...8K?
Post by: Martin_1962 on 20 September 2009, 11:29:14
Quote
Debs, isn't Freesat + HD PVR the way to go? That's the technology route I've been mulling over recently.  :y

http://www.freesat.co.uk/index.php?page=hd.Main


Humax HDR

Very good piece of kit, but for a lot of main stream channels SDTV Freeview has a better picture.

That is why 90% of the HDR recordings are off BBC HD.

ITV1 LD in particular is appauling on DSAT.

There is no SDTV ITV1 on DSat only low def and occasionally high def.

But then the only programmes I like on ITV1 are in HD (Kingdom, and Doc Martin) it doesn't matter.

Primeval has been cancelled so no problems there >:(
To be honest it is not worth trying to single source TV, we triple source it.

Freeview is generally best for SDTV PQ, Freesat for the HD, also there is the internet in various resolutions, from streaming IPlayer to BT Vision HD downloads, for some people cable TV is an option as well, but that is payed for.

If you find the SDTV acceptale via HDMI for the Humax give it a go, but I prefer the SDTV off the two Freeview PVRs we have (BT Vision is a Freeview PVR with IPTV and was only £30, we don't actually use the IPTV beyond Replay TV, thanks BT :y)
Title: Re: Freeview DSO: 2K...8K?
Post by: albitz on 20 September 2009, 20:41:13
We acquired a brand new Humax box this week.Quite like the idea of setting it up and binning Sky,but apparently its doubtful if we can get a decent Freeview signal where we live.  :(
Title: Re: Freeview DSO: 2K...8K?
Post by: Dishevelled Den on 20 September 2009, 20:45:13
Quote
We acquired a brand new Humax box this week.Quite like the idea of setting it up and binning Sky,but apparently its doubtful if we can get a decent Freeview signal where we live.  :(


Freesat is the thing to go for A :y :y
Title: Re: Freeview DSO: 2K...8K?
Post by: albitz on 20 September 2009, 20:57:56
Can I get that on this Humax contraption then ?

I am a self confessed technoretard. ::) ;D
Title: Re: Freeview DSO: 2K...8K?
Post by: Martin_1962 on 20 September 2009, 21:00:00
Quote
Quote
We acquired a brand new Humax box this week.Quite like the idea of setting it up and binning Sky,but apparently its doubtful if we can get a decent Freeview signal where we live.  :(


Freesat is the thing to go for A :y :y


Got both - apart from BBC HD and ITV HD Freeview is better for picture.

You can get Freeview reception most places if you know what you are doing.

According to the post code checker - no Freeview here - but I am on Sutton Coldfield and get a good digital signal
Title: Re: Freeview DSO: 2K...8K?
Post by: albitz on 20 September 2009, 22:07:08
.............But can I get freesat on the Humax box ?  :-/
Title: Re: Freeview DSO: 2K...8K?
Post by: Dishevelled Den on 20 September 2009, 22:08:33
Quote
Can I get that on this Humax contraption then ?

I am a self confessed technoretard. ::) ;D

No the Humax will be for terrestrial signals - a nice wee box all the same.

Freesat+ is a satellite receiver with a hard disc recorder built in - rather like the Sky+ or Sky HD boxes only there’s no subscription to pay.  You will need a small dish aerial and suitable receiver but will get a much more complete service than terrestrial without the reception problems.
Title: Re: Freeview DSO: 2K...8K?
Post by: albitz on 20 September 2009, 22:12:02
I already have Sky,so if I cancel it I buy a freesat box instead ?
Then presumably the new Humax box is best used as a doorstop. :-/ ;D
Title: Re: Freeview DSO: 2K...8K?
Post by: Debs. on 20 September 2009, 22:17:07
Quote
.......I am a self confessed technoretard. ::) ;D

Technology lesson-01:
Remember that baked bean cans work best and to keep the string taught! ;D
Title: Re: Freeview DSO: 2K...8K?
Post by: Dishevelled Den on 20 September 2009, 22:21:58
Quote
I already have Sky,so if I cancel it I buy a freesat box instead ?
Then presumably the new Humax box is best used as a doorstop. :-/ ;D

Yep as you have the dish already installed, although if you go for the Freesat+ you need two leads coming from the dish as there's two tuners in this type of box - go for the standard Freesat and you only need one lead, which you should already have, it's a simple switch over.

If you presently have Sky + or Sky HD then you will already have the two leads required, in that case it's a straight swop.

If you can't get the terrestrial Freeview signal without blood and guts, sell it on.
Title: Re: Freeview DSO: 2K...8K?
Post by: albitz on 20 September 2009, 22:32:25
Thanks Zulu. :y Have multiroom (which doesnt work) so have 2 leads,so should have a few options. :y
Title: Re: Freeview DSO: 2K...8K?
Post by: Martin_1962 on 20 September 2009, 23:08:03
What TV transmitter would you be on - better to have too many than not enough
Title: Re: Freeview DSO: 2K...8K?
Post by: albitz on 20 September 2009, 23:32:01
Sudbury I believe,but there is a hill between it and us which weakens the freeview signal........I think. :-/ ;D
Title: Re: Freeview DSO: 2K...8K?
Post by: Ken T on 21 September 2009, 00:26:02
Thanks Debs, ever one to upset the way things are.   :-/

I have just bought another Digi TV Card for my PC so I can record lots of programs at once, and you tell me that they may be useless soon  :'( :'( :'( . I did  a  bit of looking into the whole freeview system used, and it shows that our Government wanted the DVB system out quick so adopted whatever was offered to them, no mind if it was inferior, just get it out quick and placate the masses. Now there is potentially a lot of boxes not able to receive the new 8K encoding, some of the chips being invented way back in 2001, so a lot of fully working but no longer of any use equipment heading its to the dump soon.   :'(

On another tack, did you see Watchdog last week ?. They were talking about PS3 failures and how their special team put the  guts into an oven (at gas mark 5  ! ) and magically a lot started working again. This is a classic system of bad BGA joints, not helped by the crap, lead free solder they use. I  have reflowed a few bad BGA's, but unlike the clowns watchdog used, I always flood the area with flux to promote good soldering, and it works quite well; unlike their dismal failure rate. Companies are using a lead free product known as SAC, Tin/Silver/Copper, cause its cheap. However it is brittle ( no lead, a ductile material) and fails soon. Hmm you might also want to look into silver mining and consider the costs to the environment.  :(

I use a different solder, SN100C, which has most of the characteristics of proper SN/PB solder, so is a lot more reliable but is more expensive than SAC, so will not get mainstream use. I am more concerned with quality than  quantity.

We are going to end up with mountains of faulty/useless junk because peple in charge who should know better, don't. Why do we vote these clowns in charge ?.

ken
Title: Re: Freeview DSO: 2K...8K?
Post by: TheBoy on 21 September 2009, 10:17:48
Quote
Quote
We acquired a brand new Humax box this week.Quite like the idea of setting it up and binning Sky,but apparently its doubtful if we can get a decent Freeview signal where we live.  :(


Freesat is the thing to go for A :y :y
Not convinced it is - certainly on SD, freeview seems to have a noticible quality edge to my eyes...
Title: Re: Freeview DSO: 2K...8K?
Post by: TheBoy on 21 September 2009, 10:21:41
To anyone looking at buying a new box - be it cheapo, Topfield, Humax, whatever - remember that the HD will use DVB-T2, and all the current models (afaik) only support DVB-T, so even though they may claim HD compatibility, they won't work.


I'm in the same boat, as my Media Center only has DVB-T cards.  In fact I've yet to find a card that does DVB-T2, not that I would want a first generation one anyway.
Title: Re: Freeview DSO: 2K...8K?
Post by: Dishevelled Den on 21 September 2009, 10:26:29
Quote
To anyone looking at buying a new box - be it cheapo, Topfield, Humax, whatever - remember that the HD will use DVB-T2, and all the current models (afaik) only support DVB-T, so even though they may claim HD compatibility, they won't work.


I'm in the same boat, as my Media Center only has DVB-T cards.  In fact I've yet to find a card that does DVB-T2, not that I would want a first generation one anyway.


Yep, that's another one waiting to trip those trying to find their way in the digital world :(
Title: Re: Freeview DSO: 2K...8K?
Post by: Dishevelled Den on 21 September 2009, 10:30:37
Quote
Quote
Quote
We acquired a brand new Humax box this week.Quite like the idea of setting it up and binning Sky,but apparently its doubtful if we can get a decent Freeview signal where we live.  :(


Freesat is the thing to go for A :y :y
Not convinced it is - certainly on SD, freeview seems to have a noticible quality edge to my eyes...


It's a subjective thing I suppose but it should let Albs get round the problems he has with reception.
Title: Re: Freeview DSO: 2K...8K?
Post by: Martin_1962 on 21 September 2009, 18:57:12
Quote
Quote
Quote
We acquired a brand new Humax box this week.Quite like the idea of setting it up and binning Sky,but apparently its doubtful if we can get a decent Freeview signal where we live.  :(


Freesat is the thing to go for A :y :y
Not convinced it is - certainly on SD, freeview seems to have a noticible quality edge to my eyes...


It does - noticed it since the early days
Title: Re: Freeview DSO: 2K...8K?
Post by: Martin_1962 on 21 September 2009, 18:57:42
Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
We acquired a brand new Humax box this week.Quite like the idea of setting it up and binning Sky,but apparently its doubtful if we can get a decent Freeview signal where we live.  :(


Freesat is the thing to go for A :y :y
Not convinced it is - certainly on SD, freeview seems to have a noticible quality edge to my eyes...


It's a subjective thing I suppose but it should let Albs get round the problems he has with reception.


A DAT75 might do it!
Title: Re: Freeview DSO: 2K...8K?
Post by: albitz on 21 September 2009, 19:05:00
Do they sell them by the kilo or do I have to buy a whole bag. ::) ;D ;D
Title: Re: Freeview DSO: 2K...8K?
Post by: Martin_1962 on 21 September 2009, 19:12:47
Quote
Do they sell them by the kilo or do I have to buy a whole bag. ::) ;D ;D


Try this one

(http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/DAT75.jpg)

 ;D ;D
Title: Re: Freeview DSO: 2K...8K?
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 21 September 2009, 19:24:33
The 8K switch is bound to happen as it allows more subcarriers (and hence channels) to be supported.

And remember, the government get cash for each channel!
Title: Re: Freeview DSO: 2K...8K?
Post by: TheBoy on 21 September 2009, 19:43:10
Quote
The 8K switch is bound to happen as it allows more subcarriers (and hence channels) to be supported.

And remember, the government get cash for each channel!
Shame the changes make ALL freeview equipment out there and ALL freeview equipment currently available unable to display the new channels...

Still, by offering HD on the freed up MUX thats changing to DVB-T2, it will accelerate the take-up of DVB-T2 equipment when it becomes available, simply due to the hype around HD
Title: Re: Freeview DSO: 2K...8K?
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 21 September 2009, 20:02:22
Quote
Quote
The 8K switch is bound to happen as it allows more subcarriers (and hence channels) to be supported.

And remember, the government get cash for each channel!
Shame the changes make ALL freeview equipment out there and ALL freeview equipment currently available unable to display the new channels...

Still, by offering HD on the freed up MUX thats changing to DVB-T2, it will accelerate the take-up of DVB-T2 equipment when it becomes available, simply due to the hype around HD

Nope, dont confuse 2k/8k coding with HD transmissiosn (which is totaly different).

The only thing the 8k upgrade does for hd is allows more channels to be supported and hence opens things up to support the higher bandwidth required for hd  :y
Title: Re: Freeview DSO: 2K...8K?
Post by: TheBoy on 21 September 2009, 20:13:37
Quote
Quote
Quote
The 8K switch is bound to happen as it allows more subcarriers (and hence channels) to be supported.

And remember, the government get cash for each channel!
Shame the changes make ALL freeview equipment out there and ALL freeview equipment currently available unable to display the new channels...

Still, by offering HD on the freed up MUX thats changing to DVB-T2, it will accelerate the take-up of DVB-T2 equipment when it becomes available, simply due to the hype around HD

Nope, dont confuse 2k/8k coding with HD transmissiosn (which is totaly different).

The only thing the 8k upgrade does for hd is allows more channels to be supported and hence opens things up to support the higher bandwidth required for hd  :y
I'm not, I'm referring to OFCOM saying the 2nd BBC MUX is going to changing to DVB-T2 transmission, thus making that MUX undecodable by all current equipment  :'(

But is will be marketed as HD, as having equip capbale of DVB-T2 will be the only way to get Freeview HD in the UK
Title: Re: Freeview DSO: 2K...8K?
Post by: Debs. on 21 September 2009, 20:33:12
Quote
Thanks Debs, ever one to upset the way things are.   :-/

I have just bought another Digi TV Card for my PC so I can record lots of programs at once, and you tell me that they may be useless soon  :'( :'( :'( . I did  a  bit of looking into the whole freeview system used, and it shows that our Government wanted the DVB system out quick so adopted whatever was offered to them, no mind if it was inferior, just get it out quick and placate the masses. Now there is potentially a lot of boxes not able to receive the new 8K encoding, some of the chips being invented way back in 2001, so a lot of fully working but no longer of any use equipment heading its to the dump soon.   :'(

Sorry Ken! :-[
I hate junking perfectly good equipement too; I was VERY upset to find out about the 2K vs. 8K 'Freeview' incompatibility changes (stupidity) and I fume everytime I read the Digital Switchover organisations` very public claims about the "only a very small number"[/u] of current Tv`s , PC cards and STB`s which will be unable to go forward into the new DVB age. >:(
Title: Re: Freeview DSO: 2K...8K?
Post by: TheBoy on 21 September 2009, 20:36:05
Quote
Quote
Thanks Debs, ever one to upset the way things are.   :-/

I have just bought another Digi TV Card for my PC so I can record lots of programs at once, and you tell me that they may be useless soon  :'( :'( :'( . I did  a  bit of looking into the whole freeview system used, and it shows that our Government wanted the DVB system out quick so adopted whatever was offered to them, no mind if it was inferior, just get it out quick and placate the masses. Now there is potentially a lot of boxes not able to receive the new 8K encoding, some of the chips being invented way back in 2001, so a lot of fully working but no longer of any use equipment heading its to the dump soon.   :'(

Sorry Ken! :-[
I hate junking perfectly good equipement too; I was VERY upset to find out about the 2K vs. 8K 'Freeview' incompatibility changes (stupidity) and I fume everytime I read the Digital Switchover organisations` very public claims about the "only a very small number"[/u] of current Tv`s , PC cards and STB`s which will be unable to go forward into the new DVB age. >:(
In fairness we have known about DSO for nearly 10yrs, yet even last year, major retailers were still selling analogue only equipment  >:(
Title: Re: Freeview DSO: 2K...8K?
Post by: Debs. on 21 September 2009, 20:39:57
Quote
(http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/DAT75.jpg)

 ;D ;D

An 'aerial' photograph; but taken from the ground! ;D