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Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: Andy B on 13 October 2009, 12:57:40

Title: Fine as art pupil loses fingers -BBC
Post by: Andy B on 13 October 2009, 12:57:40
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/lincolnshire/8303246.stm

It doesn't bear thinking about how much pain this young girl must've been in. In all honesty I wouldn't have known that something as innocuous as plaster of Paris would have heated up to this degree. I'd have compared it to having an old style plaster cast on a broken arm/leg/etc .... but obviously not.  :(
Title: Re: Fine as art pupil loses fingers -BBC
Post by: Jimbob on 13 October 2009, 13:04:36
its shocking.....was there no hammer to smash it off, or water to try and pour in.

would like to know the full story, but full sympathy to the girl
Title: Re: Fine as art pupil loses fingers -BBC
Post by: Andy B on 13 October 2009, 13:09:46
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its shocking.....was there no hammer to smash it off, or water to try and pour in.

would like to know the full story, but full sympathy to the girl

It's just been discussed on the radio, apparrently they did try to smash it with a hammer .... obviously failed. :(
Title: Re: Fine as art pupil loses fingers -BBC
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 13 October 2009, 13:18:42
Natural selection at its greatest.......
Title: Re: Fine as art pupil loses fingers -BBC
Post by: Welung666 on 13 October 2009, 13:23:47
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Natural selection at its greatest.......

Your sympathy touches me on so many levels Mark ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Fine as art pupil loses fingers -BBC
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 13 October 2009, 13:27:59
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Natural selection at its greatest.......

Your sympathy touches me on so many levels Mark ;D ;D ;D


If you are stupid enough to think stinking your hand in a bucket full of a substance that you know sets rock hard is a sensible thing to do.....then what more can I say!

It would be nice to think that most people would know this is a daft thing to do....or have we dumbed the world down with health and safety to the point where the youth of today cant carry out thier own on the fly risk assesments!

Title: Re: Fine as art pupil loses fingers -BBC
Post by: KillerWatt on 13 October 2009, 13:31:07
BBC news wrote:
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We are confident that such an accident cannot occur again at our school.
What a plank.
The potential for an accident is with us every day of our lives, and it was that way of thinking that more than likely caused this incident in the first place.
Title: Re: Fine as art pupil loses fingers -BBC
Post by: Welung666 on 13 October 2009, 13:32:05
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Natural selection at its greatest.......

Your sympathy touches me on so many levels Mark ;D ;D ;D


If you are stupid enough to think stinking your hand in a bucket full of a substance that you know sets rock hard is a sesnsible thing to do.....then what more can I say!

It would be nice to think that most people would know this is a daft thing to do....or have we dumbed the world down with health and safety to the point where the youth of today cant carry out thier own on the fly risk assesments!


In a nutshell YES! I work in a primary school and the risk assessments we have to carry out is rediculous! The school would have got the blame for lack of supervision as the girl in question wasn't following the instructions she'd been given. The teacher/teaching assistant would have ultimately got the blame for not spotting this going on and correcting the girl.
Title: Re: Fine as art pupil loses fingers -BBC
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 13 October 2009, 13:33:25
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Natural selection at its greatest.......

Your sympathy touches me on so many levels Mark ;D ;D ;D


If you are stupid enough to think stinking your hand in a bucket full of a substance that you know sets rock hard is a sesnsible thing to do.....then what more can I say!

It would be nice to think that most people would know this is a daft thing to do....or have we dumbed the world down with health and safety to the point where the youth of today cant carry out thier own on the fly risk assesments!


In a nutshell YES! I work in a primary school and the risk assessments we have to carry out is rediculous! The school would have got the blame for lack of supervision as the girl in question wasn't following the instructions she'd been given. The teacher/teaching assistant would have ultimately got the blame for not spotting this going on and correcting the girl.

Yet, a large proportion of the blame has to lie with the individual as we should all be responsible for our actions
Title: Re: Fine as art pupil loses fingers -BBC
Post by: Welung666 on 13 October 2009, 13:35:46
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...snip...

Yet, a large proportion of the blame has to lie with the individual as we should all be responsible for our actions

It should, but in the eyes of a court she was a minor and not properly supervised. What a mad world we live in  :-/
Title: Re: Fine as art pupil loses fingers -BBC
Post by: Jimbob on 13 October 2009, 13:36:55
gotta wonder how she thought she was gonna get her hands out!


can't have been a pleasant experience though  :-[
Title: Re: Fine as art pupil loses fingers -BBC
Post by: Andy B on 13 October 2009, 13:41:51
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gotta wonder how she thought she was gonna get her hands out! ......

Agreed!That would have been amusing .... you'd have thought. But would you have expected the plaster of Paris to get that hot? I wouldn't  :-?
Title: Re: Fine as art pupil loses fingers -BBC
Post by: Welung666 on 13 October 2009, 13:43:51
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gotta wonder how she thought she was gonna get her hands out! ......

Agreed!That would have been amusing .... you'd have thought. But would you have expected the plaster of Paris to get [be ]that[/be ] hot? I wouldn't  :-?

She should be glad it wasn't lime based, that can hit boiling point as it sets!
Title: Re: Fine as art pupil loses fingers -BBC
Post by: Andy B on 13 October 2009, 13:45:45
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.....
She should be glad it wasn't lime based, that can hit boiling point as it sets!

Judging by what's left of her hands, it got to at least boiling point (of water) and more.
Title: Re: Fine as art pupil loses fingers -BBC
Post by: KillerWatt on 13 October 2009, 13:46:05
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or have we dumbed the world down with health and safety to the point where the youth of today cant carry out thier own on the fly risk assesments!
It's not just the youth of today that are affected.
We have spent so long creating cotton wool blankets, that pretty soon even something as simple as the common cold is going to be a real threat.

What also doesn't help is this "where there is blame, there is a claim" culture.

Here's a perfect example for you.....

If you step out in front of a car and get run over, the first person we try to blame is the driver.
If however you stepped in front of a train and got run over, nobody even thinks to start trying to blame the train driver because we (rightly) accept that you should look before crossing.

Back in my day we had (among other things) the Green Cross Code advert. This was blasted at us relentlessly during every commercial break, and (unsurprisingly) it was proven to work.

What crap do we get blasted at us now?
Drivers, kill your speed, not a child.

Complete crock of shit and wholly inaccurate IMO.
Simple fact is that we are ALL responsible for ourselves and others to varying degrees, and the sooner we start repeating those kind of messages, the better off we'll be!

Title: Re: Fine as art pupil loses fingers -BBC
Post by: Welung666 on 13 October 2009, 13:48:43
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or have we dumbed the world down with health and safety to the point where the youth of today cant carry out thier own on the fly risk assesments!
It's not just the youth of today that are affected.
We have spent so long creating cotton wool blankets, that pretty soon even something as simple as the common cold is going to be a real threat.

What also doesn't help is this "where there is blame, there is a claim" culture.

Here's a perfect example for you.....

If you step out in front of a car and get run over, the first person we try to blame is the driver.
If however you stepped in front of a train and got run over, nobody even thinks to start trying to blame the train driver because we (rightly) accept that you should look before crossing.

Back in my day we had (among other things) the Green Cross Code advert. This was blasted at us relentlessly during every commercial break, and (unsurprisingly) it was proven to work.

What crap do we get blasted at us now?
Drivers, kill your speed, not a child.

Complete crock of shit and wholly inaccurate IMO.
Simple fact is that we are ALL responsible for ourselves and others to varying degrees, and the sooner we start repeating those kind of messages, the better off we'll be!


I agree entirely :y
Title: Re: Fine as art pupil loses fingers -BBC
Post by: KillerWatt on 13 October 2009, 13:49:33
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It should, but in the eyes of a court she was a minor and not properly supervised. What a mad world we live in  :-/
Too right we've gone mad.
By the time I turned 16, I was already a fully qualified sparks and working on building sites.
I've not checked the law recently, but it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest to discover that 16-18 year olds can no longer work unsupervised in such environments.
Title: Re: Fine as art pupil loses fingers -BBC
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 13 October 2009, 13:54:26
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gotta wonder how she thought she was gonna get her hands out! ......

Agreed!That would have been amusing .... you'd have thought. But would you have expected the plaster of Paris to get [be ]that[/be ] hot? I wouldn't  :-?

It will hit 60-70 degrees....enough to very badly scold.....and the hands would have been in there a long time
Title: Re: Fine as art pupil loses fingers -BBC
Post by: albitz on 13 October 2009, 13:59:15
Arent we all assuming that this young girl was advised of the properties of plaster of Paris.If she wasnt then the school is criminally negligent to the point where some tinker needs locking up imo.Think how you would feel if it were your kid.
I am a firm believer in taking responsibility for our own actions, but a school pupil in a supposedly supervised environment could only be expected to do so if they had already been informed of the potential risks.The fact that the school didnt report such a serious incident to the HSE says a lot about their attitude to me.
As for calling this natural selection at its best,dont even get me started ffs,idiotic doesnt even begin to cover it. >:(
Title: Re: Fine as art pupil loses fingers -BBC
Post by: Andy B on 13 October 2009, 14:08:18
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.....
What crap do we get blasted at us now?
Drivers, kill your speed, not a child.

Complete crock of shit and wholly inaccurate IMO.
Simple fact is that we are ALL responsible for ourselves and others to varying degrees, and the sooner we start repeating those kind of messages, the better off we'll be!


Which is exactly why you see the teenagers look you straight in the eyes as the step out into the road infront of you. They don't half shift when you momentarily accelerate though!   ;)  ;)  ;)  ;) :y



apparently!!  ::)  ::)
Title: Re: Fine as art pupil loses fingers -BBC
Post by: Andy B on 13 October 2009, 14:10:49
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Arent we all assuming that this young girl was advised of the properties of plaster of Paris.If she wasnt then the school is criminally negligent to the point where some tinker needs locking up imo.Think how you would feel if it were your kid.
I am a firm believer in taking responsibility for our own actions, but a school pupil in a supposedly supervised inveronment could only be expected to do so if they had already been informed of the potential risks.The fact that the school didnt report such a serious incident to the HSE syas a lot about their attitude to me.
As for calling this natural selection at its best,dont even get me started ffs,idiotic doesnt even begin to cover it. >:(

Apprently she'd seen a lad recently cast just his fingers by putting them straight into the plaster. She was told though she'd to make a clay 'glove' and use that as a mould to make a cast of her hands.
Thinking she knew better ......
Title: Re: Fine as art pupil loses fingers -BBC
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 13 October 2009, 14:14:10
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Arent we all assuming that this young girl was advised of the properties of plaster of Paris.If she wasnt then the school is criminally negligent to the point where some tinker needs locking up imo.Think how you would feel if it were your kid.
I am a firm believer in taking responsibility for our own actions, but a school pupil in a supposedly supervised inveronment could only be expected to do so if they had already been informed of the potential risks.The fact that the school didnt report such a serious incident to the HSE syas a lot about their attitude to me.
As for calling this natural selection at its best,dont even get me started ffs,idiotic doesnt even begin to cover it. >:(

I disagree....she didn't follow instructions and still thought dumping her hands in something that sets solid was a good idea. Are you expected (not that its possible) to warn of every single possible danger!

Natural selection!

The only question mark is why it wasn't spotted by somebody supervising.
Title: Re: Fine as art pupil loses fingers -BBC
Post by: mantahatch on 13 October 2009, 14:14:56
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It should, but in the eyes of a court she was a minor and not properly supervised. What a mad world we live in  :-/
Too right we've gone mad.
By the time I turned 16, I was already a fully qualified sparks and working on building sites.
I've not checked the law recently, but it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest to discover that 16-18 year olds can no longer work unsupervised in such environments.


Blimey KW, you must have been working with Edison then  ;D

I started my apprenticeship at age 15, but was not qualified till I was 19, and consider myself to still be learning today.
I take it that sparks training is very short then ?
Title: Re: Fine as art pupil loses fingers -BBC
Post by: Andy B on 13 October 2009, 14:32:31
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......
The only question mark is why it wasn't spotted by somebody supervising.

And I think that's why the school is being fined.
Title: Re: Fine as art pupil loses fingers -BBC
Post by: KillerWatt on 13 October 2009, 14:45:31
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It should, but in the eyes of a court she was a minor and not properly supervised. What a mad world we live in  :-/
Too right we've gone mad.
By the time I turned 16, I was already a fully qualified sparks and working on building sites.
I've not checked the law recently, but it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest to discover that 16-18 year olds can no longer work unsupervised in such environments.


Blimey KW, you must have been working with Edison then  ;D

I started my apprenticeship at age 15, but was not qualified till I was 19, and consider myself to still be learning today.
I take it that sparks training is very short then ?
Cheeky tinker  ;D

I'd just missed the old "5 year time served" bit, so ended up in college in 79 for the first year and achieved pass with distinction for the theory, along with pass with credit for the practical (just 1% short to get the distinction mark).

1980 saw me starting the second year (part 2), and a successful pass on that made me qualified in the eyes of the law.

Like you say though, being qualified and being able to do the job are 2 seperate entities...it was a good 3 years plus after getting my 236 before my colleagues even considered me to be in the same league as them.

Since then I've had to obtain more qualifications (basic tests really, but still bloody expensive) as the regs have been updated, but I'm now at the stage where I pretty much write my own salary cheque.

I do however still firmly believe that taking an exam isn't worth shit, and the only way to learn any trade is by hands on only.
Title: Re: Fine as art pupil loses fingers -BBC
Post by: Pitchfork on 13 October 2009, 15:25:48
Of course if there was more Chemistry taught & less Fine Arts, it would have been known that heat is frequently generated as a result of a chemical reaction which is what happens when you mix Plaster of Paris with water
Title: Re: Fine as art pupil loses fingers -BBC
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 13 October 2009, 16:00:17
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Of course if there was more Chemistry taught & less Fine Arts, it would have been known that heat is frequently generated as a result of a chemical reaction which is what happens when you mix Plaster of Paris with water


Indeed, an exothermic reaction!
Title: Re: Fine as art pupil loses fingers -BBC
Post by: Andy B on 13 October 2009, 16:00:52
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Of course if there was more Chemistry taught & less Fine Arts, it would have been known that heat is frequently generated as a result of a chemical reaction which is what happens when you mix Plaster of Paris with water


Indeed, an exothermic reaction!

Far too dangerous!!!!   ::)  ::)  :y
Title: Re: Fine as art pupil loses fingers -BBC
Post by: HolyCount on 13 October 2009, 18:15:43
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or have we dumbed the world down with health and safety to the point where the youth of today cant carry out thier own on the fly risk assesments!
It's not just the youth of today that are affected.
We have spent so long creating cotton wool blankets, that pretty soon even something as simple as the common cold is going to be a real threat.

What also doesn't help is this "where there is blame, there is a claim" culture.

Here's a perfect example for you.....

If you step out in front of a car and get run over, the first person we try to blame is the driver.
If however you stepped in front of a train and got run over, nobody even thinks to start trying to blame the train driver because we (rightly) accept that you should look before crossing.

Back in my day we had (among other things) the Green Cross Code advert. This was blasted at us relentlessly during every commercial break, and (unsurprisingly) it was proven to work.

What crap do we get blasted at us now?
Drivers, kill your speed, not a child.

Complete crock of shit and wholly inaccurate IMO.
Simple fact is that we are ALL responsible for ourselves and others to varying degrees, and the sooner we start repeating those kind of messages, the better off we'll be!


Entirely agree Killer .... we are orchestrating our own doom with a bubble wrapped society which is also, it seems, taking away the abilty ( by removing the need) to think for yourself
Title: Re: Fine as art pupil loses fingers -BBC
Post by: jonnycool on 13 October 2009, 18:41:49
How many people on here would truthfully have known that if you put your hands in plaster of Paris, it would burn your hands off? I'm a reasonably smart man but I didn't bloody know that!

   Kids will always play up to some degree, something as dangerous as this should have been supervised very closely, it's like leaving a vat of acid lying around ffs!

   We were all young once, can all of you honestly say that you've never done stupid things when you were kids? This girl could never have known the risks when she put her hands in that pot, school's fault entirely
Title: Re: Fine as art pupil loses fingers -BBC
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 13 October 2009, 18:45:41
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How many people on here would truthfully have known that if you put your hands in plaster of Paris, it would burn your hands off? I'm a reasonably smart man but I didn't bloody know that!

Even if you didn't (and really, you should!), you wouldn't do it as you know how bloody hard it goes!
Title: Re: Fine as art pupil loses fingers -BBC
Post by: Dishevelled Den on 13 October 2009, 18:51:59
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Natural selection at its greatest.......

Your sympathy touches me on so many levels Mark ;D ;D ;D


If you are stupid enough to think stinking your hand in a bucket full of a substance that you know sets rock hard is a sensible thing to do.....then what more can I say!

It would be nice to think that most people would know this is a daft thing to do....or have we dumbed the world down with health and safety to the point where the youth of today cant carry out thier own on the fly risk assesments!




.... that and more unfortunately, if it isn't on a screen or through an earpiece then it doesn't compute - this could be a lost generation :( :(
Title: Re: Fine as art pupil loses fingers -BBC
Post by: jonnycool on 13 October 2009, 18:58:20
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How many people on here would truthfully have known that if you put your hands in plaster of Paris, it would burn your hands off? I'm a reasonably smart man but I didn't bloody know that!

Even if you didn't (and really, you should!), you wouldn't do it as you know how bloody hard it goes!

As I said, kids will do stupid things, she couldn't have known that it would set so quickly, she probably thought she'd get her hands out when it was reasonably soft
Title: Re: Fine as art pupil loses fingers -BBC
Post by: albitz on 13 October 2009, 19:08:16
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Quote
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How many people on here would truthfully have known that if you put your hands in plaster of Paris, it would burn your hands off? I'm a reasonably smart man but I didn't bloody know that!

Even if you didn't (and really, you should!), you wouldn't do it as you know how bloody hard it goes!

As I said, kids will do stupid things, she couldn't have known that it would set so quickly, she probably thought she'd get her hands out when it was reasonably soft
Exactly. :y......we are talking about a child/adolescent,in the charge of a teacher.The teacher should have been 100% confident that the pupil knew the risks or fully supervised the pupil imo.
If this was a fully grown adult I probably wouldnt have anywhere near as much sympathy but it isnt.
I would imagine if it happened to any of our kids while they were at school,we would want to hang/draw/quarter the teacher. ::) ;)
Title: Re: Fine as art pupil loses fingers -BBC
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 13 October 2009, 19:15:42
We are talking about a 16 year old here, not a 5 year old!

Again, should know better and now paying the price, teacher can only be held to blame for not noticing such a stupid act.
Title: Re: Fine as art pupil loses fingers -BBC
Post by: albitz on 13 October 2009, 19:19:55
Ime 16 year olds can be more daft than 5 year olds ::)......but the point is imo,if it happens to one of your kids when they are 16,will you say that it was natural selection at its best? :-/
Title: Re: Fine as art pupil loses fingers -BBC
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 13 October 2009, 19:26:04
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Ime 16 year olds can be more daft than 5 year olds ::)......but the point is imo,if it happens to one of your kids when they are 16,will you say that it was natural selection at its best? :-/

I will be un-happy that the teacher didn't notice it, I would question why my child did not know better.....would I be looking for somebodies balls, no. It certainly wouldn't be thing 'the teacher should have told then not to'

Similarly, if they got run down by a bus.....would I be going for the bus driver becuase he did not see the potential danger, slow down and take ovasive action?

Are we sudgesting that plaster of paris needs banning in schools?
Title: Re: Fine as art pupil loses fingers -BBC
Post by: Dishevelled Den on 13 October 2009, 19:29:38
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Yet, a large proportion of the blame has to lie with the individual as we should all be responsible for our actions


I think that's an inescapable fact and that many don't seem to have the common sense to understand it. :y
Title: Re: Fine as art pupil loses fingers -BBC
Post by: albitz on 13 October 2009, 19:30:56
No,but imo the teacher has a responsibility to be sure that a pupil is completely aware of the damage that can be done before leaving a pupil to work with it unsupervised.
Whatever the rights/wrongs off the case I cant help but feel deeply sorry for the poor kid,she may have been stupid,not listened properly or whatever,but she has paid a terrible price which has ruined her life.Tbh I found your comment about natural selection crassly insensitive.
Title: Re: Fine as art pupil loses fingers -BBC
Post by: cem_devecioglu on 13 October 2009, 19:34:12
 :-?

something wrong there.. :-?

it must be hcl or sulphuric acid.. not plaster of paris..

I played with it in school and in home and stuck in it many times..and there is no way to hurt yourself with it like that..or else I could not write now.. :-/
Title: Re: Fine as art pupil loses fingers -BBC
Post by: Chris_H on 13 October 2009, 19:44:23
There must be more to this since the plaster of paris should not have been going off.  It should have been poured into the molds long before that.

I wonder how many 16-year-olds would put their feet in wet concrete screed to see what happened?

I'm afraid at 16, I would expect better.
Title: Re: Fine as art pupil loses fingers -BBC
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 13 October 2009, 19:44:44
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No,but imo the teacher has a responsibility to be sure that a pupil is completely aware of the damage that can be done before leaving a pupil to work with it unsupervised.
Whatever the rights/wrongs off the case I cant help but feel deeply sorry for the poor kid,she may have been stupid,not listened properly or whatever,but she has paid a terrible price which has ruined her life.Tbh I found your comment about natural selection crassly insensitive.


It clear its a hard thing to see but, natural selection all be it a harsh way of putting it, is exactly what it is......
Title: Re: Fine as art pupil loses fingers -BBC
Post by: Dishevelled Den on 13 October 2009, 19:45:35
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No,but imo the teacher has a responsibility to be sure that a pupil is completely aware of the damage that can be done before leaving a pupil to work with it unsupervised.
Whatever the rights/wrongs off the case I cant help but feel deeply sorry for the poor kid,she may have been stupid,not listened properly or whatever,but she has paid a terrible price which has ruined her life.Tbh  found your comment about natural selection crassly insensitive.


While the horrific injuries suffered by this young woman when aged 14 won't be forgotten for a lifetime it's a fair enough comment in my view.

Teenagers today should have more ability to assess various unfamiliar situations by applying basic good sense.  That ability - sadly - seems to me missing in a lot of young people and that's something which demands atttention.




Title: Re: Fine as art pupil loses fingers -BBC
Post by: albitz on 13 October 2009, 19:55:08
That could well be zulu because we bring them up in a totally risk averse way  which leaves them without the common sense which was developed by previous generations.If that is the case here then the girl is still the victim ,a victim of the stupidity of the society she is growing up in,and the idiots who run it.Whatever way you look at it ,I feel desperately sorry for her.Call me an old softie,but which one of us hasnt had mishaps and accidents when we were young which could easily have ended in tragedy?
I still think the fact that the school didnt report this incident to the appropriate authority points to them having breaked up big style and then trying to get away with it. :-/
Title: Re: Fine as art pupil loses fingers -BBC
Post by: KillerWatt on 13 October 2009, 20:07:59
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How many people on here would truthfully have known that if you put your hands in plaster of Paris, it would burn your hands off? I'm a reasonably smart man but I didn't bloody know that!
You don't have to posess a degree in rocket science to realise that if something gets warm when mixed in small amounts, it's going to get even hotter when you increase the mix.

Much as I hate to say it, I'm in agreement with Mark.
Common f**king sense tells you what is going to happen. Unfortunately this pooftah PC world we live in has all but eradicated the train of original thought, and programmed us to believe that when something does go wrong the blame lies with anybody but the "victim" (I use that term very loosely).

Quote
We were all young once, can all of you honestly say that you've never done stupid things when you were kids?
I did shit loads of daft things as a kid (eg, riding a home built go-kart with no brakes down a 1:3 hill with a give way line at the bottom), but I was fortunate enough to escape serious injury in the process.
Make no mistake though, we learnt our lesson immediately after that (it's called original thought).

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This girl could never have known the risks when she put her hands in that pot, school's fault entirely
Get real, she is 16 years old and has been following art for quite some time prior to this incident....and there is no way an art student doesn't realise how hot plaster of paris gets when you mix it up.

The only crime here is that she has been wrapped in cotton wool and been told that she doesn't have to think for herself...and the only tinkers to blame for that are Brussels!
Title: Re: Fine as art pupil loses fingers -BBC
Post by: Dishevelled Den on 13 October 2009, 20:10:36
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That could well be zulu because we bring them up in a totally risk averse way  which leaves them without the common sense which was developed by previous generations.If that is the case here then the girl is still the victim ,a victim of the stupidity of the society she is growing up in,and the idiots who run it.Whatever way you look at it ,I feel desperately sorry for her.Call me an old softie,but which one of us hasnt had mishaps and accidents when we were young which could easily have ended in tragedy?
I still think the fact that the school didnt report this incident to the appropriate authority points to them having breaked up big style and then trying to get away with it. :-/




bring them up in a totally risk averse way  which leaves them without the common sense which was developed by previous generations

......that fact will eventually bite us in the arse.



I feel desperately sorry for her


....agreed one couldn't be anything else but.



the fact that the school didnt report this incident

.... that matter should be investigated further as it shows the shortcomings of all this health and safety legislation - in theory, especially as an arse covering provision it seems worthy but in practice, worthless unless applied by people with common sense who are concentrating on the job in hand rather than adhering to ill-thought out regulations..
Title: Re: Fine as art pupil loses fingers -BBC
Post by: albitz on 13 October 2009, 20:21:57
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Quote
That could well be zulu because we bring them up in a totally risk averse way  which leaves them without the common sense which was developed by previous generations.If that is the case here then the girl is still the victim ,a victim of the stupidity of the society she is growing up in,and the idiots who run it.Whatever way you look at it ,I feel desperately sorry for her.Call me an old softie,but which one of us hasnt had mishaps and accidents when we were young which could easily have ended in tragedy?
I still think the fact that the school didnt report this incident to the appropriate authority points to them having breaked up big style and then trying to get away with it. :-/




bring them up in a totally risk averse way  which leaves them without the common sense which was developed by previous generations

......that fact will eventually bite us in the arse.


I feel desperately sorry for her


....agreed one couldn't be anything else but.



the fact that the school didnt report this incident

.... that matter should be investigated further as it shows the shortcomings of all this health and safety legislation - in theory, especially as an arse covering provision it seems worthy but in practice, worthless unless applied by people with common sense who are concentrating on the job in hand rather than adhering to ill-thought out regulations..
What I,m saying is, it could well be "that fact" which his bitten this poor kid.
I also noted that you said she was 14 when the incident occured,if this is true it makes it even more clear cut that the school are completely negligent imo.
I also come back to my point that if it happened to someones child on here would they look their child in the eye afterwards and tell them that it was natural selection,I very seriously doubt it ,so imo it is very wrong to say it about someone elses child,especially one who has suffered as horrifically as this one has.
Title: Re: Fine as art pupil loses fingers -BBC
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 13 October 2009, 20:28:21
I am of course playing devils advocate here......the fundamental questions are:

1) Is this the failing of the teacher?

2) Is this the failing of the school?

3) Is this the failing of society due to being excessively risk adverse, not exposing us to any danger and resulting in us not being able to think what might be dangerous and whats not.

Result is, natural selection has taken over and somebody has got hurt.

Natural selection being the result of our modern society!
Title: Re: Fine as art pupil loses fingers -BBC
Post by: Kevin Wood on 13 October 2009, 20:48:12
Hmm. thinking back to some of the things we got up to at school (not all of which were in the syllabus), I can't decide if we had much more common sense - or none at all.  :-/

Kevin

Title: Re: Fine as art pupil loses fingers -BBC
Post by: Dishevelled Den on 13 October 2009, 21:26:05
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I am of course playing devils advocate here......the fundamental questions are:

1) Is this the failing of the teacher?

2) Is this the failing of the school?

3) Is this the failing of society due to being excessively risk adverse, not exposing us to any danger and resulting in us not being able to think what might be dangerous and whats not.

Result is, natural selection has taken over and somebody has got hurt.

Natural selection being the result of our modern society!


It's a combination of the three but I would parenting as well.

I would also suggest that with society as it presently sits, there will be a lot more casualties of this method of selection.
Title: Re: Fine as art pupil loses fingers -BBC
Post by: Lazydocker on 13 October 2009, 22:07:27
I think this has been grossly misunderstood.

I feel an unexplainable amount of sympathy for the girl concerned... Her actions will haunt her forever!

The teacher should have noticed, but with a class full of students she can't possibly be everywhere at once.

But, at the end of the day, the case was purely brought by HSE for not reporting the accident. Not a compensation claim!
Title: Re: Fine as art pupil loses fingers -BBC
Post by: PhilRich on 13 October 2009, 22:16:50
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Natural selection at its greatest.......

Bl**dy hell Mark, that's a bit harsh! :(
Title: Re: Fine as art pupil loses fingers -BBC
Post by: jonnycool on 13 October 2009, 22:21:32
Bloody hell, some of you must have had hard lives  ;D ;D

I'm not normally so sympathetic to people who hurt themselves when arseing about or being careless, I also subscribe to the process of natural selection, survival of the fittest etc. But honestly, call me whatever you want, I haven't talked to a single person today who realised that plaster of Paris was so dangerous (maybe I'm mixing with the wrong people!!)

I just think that if it was a pot of hydrochloric acid we were talking about here, the dangers are a lot more obvious and the teacher would be making damn sure that no person in his/her charge would be so much as sniffing it. If it's such a well-known danger, why wasn't the teacher treating it as such?

I don't expect people to agree with everything I say but I'm shocked that people are saying that if it was their kid, they'd be telling them off for being so stupid. She couldn't have fully understood the danger, no way
Title: Re: Fine as art pupil loses fingers -BBC
Post by: albitz on 13 October 2009, 22:23:25
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I think this has been grossly misunderstood.

I feel an unexplainable amount of sympathy for the girl concerned... [be ]Her[/be ] actions will haunt her forever!

The teacher should have noticed, but with a class full of students she can't possibly be everywhere at once.

But, at the end of the day, the case was purely brought by HSE for not reporting the accident. [be ]Not[/be ] a compensation claim!
Nicely put. :y :y
Title: Re: Fine as art pupil loses fingers -BBC
Post by: BigAl on 14 October 2009, 00:01:41
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That could well be zulu because we bring them up in a totally risk averse way  which leaves them without the common sense which was developed by previous generations.If that is the case here then the girl is still the victim ,a victim of the stupidity of the society she is growing up in,and the idiots who run it.Whatever way you look at it ,I feel desperately sorry for her.Call me an old softie,but which one of us hasnt had mishaps and accidents when we were young which could easily have ended in tragedy?
I still think the fact that the school didnt report this incident to the appropriate authority points to them having breaked up big style and then trying to get away with it. :-/




bring them up in a totally risk averse way  which leaves them without the common sense which was developed by previous generations

......that fact will eventually bite us in the arse.


I feel desperately sorry for her


....agreed one couldn't be anything else but.



the fact that the school didnt report this incident

.... that matter should be investigated further as it shows the shortcomings of all this health and safety legislation - in theory, especially as an arse covering provision it seems worthy but in practice, worthless unless applied by people with common sense who are concentrating on the job in hand rather than adhering to ill-thought out regulations..
What I,m saying is, it could well be "that fact" which his bitten this poor kid.
I also noted that you said she was 14 when the incident occured,if this is true it makes it even more clear cut that the school are completely negligent imo.
I also come back to my point that if it happened to someones child on here would they look their child in the eye afterwards and tell them that it was natural selection,I very seriously doubt it ,so imo it is very wrong to say it about someone elses child,especially one who has suffered as horrifically as this one has.


Yes, it would be hard to tell your child she deserved it, but to balance that view - sixty years ago slightly older teenagers were dying defending this country
Title: Re: Fine as art pupil loses fingers -BBC
Post by: albitz on 14 October 2009, 00:09:50
They still are,but they are (supposedly)highly trained in how to protect themselves and others,and have volunteered to put their lives at risk,which is quite different to going to school in the morning and coming home with no fingers. ;)
Title: Re: Fine as art pupil loses fingers -BBC
Post by: Andy B on 14 October 2009, 00:36:00
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Bloody hell, some of you must have had hard lives  ;D ;D

I'm not normally so sympathetic to people who hurt themselves when arseing about or being careless, I also subscribe to the process of natural selection, survival of the fittest etc. But honestly, call me whatever you want, I haven't talked to a single person today who realised that plaster of Paris was so dangerous .....

My original point. I never remember my plaster cast when I broke my arm 36 yrs ago getting hot enough to burm my arm.  :-? ::) :y
Title: Re: Fine as art pupil loses fingers -BBC
Post by: Darth Loo-knee on 14 October 2009, 00:36:46
Least in winter her fingers wont get cold ::)
Title: Re: Fine as art pupil loses fingers -BBC
Post by: Andy B on 14 October 2009, 00:37:51
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Least in winter her fingers wont get cold ::)

DAZ!!!!!!!!!!!  :-?  :-?  :-?  :-? You cruel man!
Title: Re: Fine as art pupil loses fingers -BBC
Post by: Darth Loo-knee on 14 October 2009, 00:40:12
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Least in winter her fingers wont get cold ::)

DAZ!!!!!!!!!!!  :-?  :-?  :-?  :-? You cruel man!

What?????? cheaper gloves :D
Title: Re: Fine as art pupil loses fingers -BBC
Post by: Vamps on 14 October 2009, 00:52:30
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Bloody hell, some of you must have had hard lives  ;D ;D

I'm not normally so sympathetic to people who hurt themselves when arseing about or being careless, I also subscribe to the process of natural selection, survival of the fittest etc. But honestly, call me whatever you want, I haven't talked to a single person today who realised that plaster of Paris was so dangerous .....

My original point. I never remember my plaster cast when I broke my arm 36 yrs ago getting hot enough to burm my arm.  :-? ::) :y

It isn't, and I used this for years with younger kids, the biggest worry of the school was blocking the sinks :)  Something went wrong in this situation, I can not understand why you would have a bucket full ready anyway, it goes of so fast, you only mix what you need.  We used to have fun filling a kitchen rubber glove and making a hand ;D They used to get warm, but this was from the outside, no idea from the inside out, but you would not do that ::)
Title: Re: Fine as art pupil loses fingers -BBC
Post by: Andy B on 14 October 2009, 01:03:15
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..... but you would not do that ::)

It seems you would!  :-?  :(
Title: Re: Fine as art pupil loses fingers -BBC
Post by: Andy B on 14 October 2009, 01:05:12
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Least in winter her fingers wont get cold ::)

DAZ!!!!!!!!!!!  :-?  :-?  :-?  :-? You cruel man!

What?????? cheaper gloves :D

What ever she did, she was someone's daughter. I'd be devastated for Miss Andy B (Emily) if it had happened to her.  :(
Title: Re: Fine as art pupil loses fingers -BBC
Post by: Darth Loo-knee on 14 October 2009, 01:07:21
When I worked as a Model for Ann Summers they used a hell of a lot of Plaster of Paris on me to form some of their best sellers.
I had a few friction burns in my time but no burns from the plaster.
Just thought I would share that with you my friends ;)
Title: Re: Fine as art pupil loses fingers -BBC
Post by: Andy B on 14 October 2009, 01:08:36
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When I worked as a Model for Ann Summers they used a hell of a lot of Plaster of Paris on me to form some of their best sellers.
I had a few friction burns in my time but no burns from the plaster.
Just thought I would share that with you my friends ;)

Have you been on the pop tonight?????  :-? ;)
Title: Re: Fine as art pupil loses fingers -BBC
Post by: Darth Loo-knee on 14 October 2009, 01:09:59
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When I worked as a Model for Ann Summers they used a hell of a lot of Plaster of Paris on me to form some of their best sellers.
I had a few friction burns in my time but no burns from the plaster.
Just thought I would share that with you my friends ;)

Have you been on the pop tonight?????  :-? ;)

Funny you should say that we have more Pepsi Max than you can shake a stick at  ;D
Title: Re: Fine as art pupil loses fingers -BBC
Post by: CaptainZok on 14 October 2009, 01:12:43
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When I worked as a Model for Ann Summers they used a hell of a lot of Plaster of Paris on me to form some of their best sellers.
I had a few friction burns in my time but no burns from the plaster.
Just thought I would share that with you my friends ;)

Have you been on the pop tonight?????  :-? ;)
Sound's like Den's forgotten to give him his tablets again. ;D
Title: Re: Fine as art pupil loses fingers -BBC
Post by: Andy B on 14 October 2009, 01:13:07
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[..... we have more Pepsi Max than you can shake a stick at  ;D

Can you drink that sh1te? :-?  ::) ::) ;D ;D
Title: Re: Fine as art pupil loses fingers -BBC
Post by: Darth Loo-knee on 14 October 2009, 01:14:00
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[..... we have more Pepsi Max than you can shake a stick at  ;D

Can you drink that sh1te? :-?  ::) ::) ;D ;D

No just look at the cans..... monghole  ;D :P
Title: Re: Fine as art pupil loses fingers -BBC
Post by: Andy B on 14 October 2009, 01:15:58
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[..... we have more Pepsi Max than you can shake a stick at  ;D

Can you drink that sh1te? :-?  ::) ::) ;D ;D

No just look at the cans..... monghole  ;D :P

Never looked at a can .... let alone drank from it.  :-? :y
Title: Re: Fine as art pupil loses fingers -BBC
Post by: albitz on 14 October 2009, 01:16:03
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When I worked as a Model for Ann Summers they used a hell of a lot of Plaster of Paris on me to form some of their best sellers.
I had a few friction burns in my time but no burns from the plaster.
Just thought I would share that with you my friends ;)

Have you been on the pop tonight?????  :-? ;)

Funny you should say that we have more Pepsi Max than you can shake a stick at  ;D
wouldnt drink that sh1te even if it was 10p a can. :D ;D
Title: Re: Fine as art pupil loses fingers -BBC
Post by: Darth Loo-knee on 14 October 2009, 01:18:22
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[..... we have more Pepsi Max than you can shake a stick at  ;D

Can you drink that sh1te? :-?  ::) ::) ;D ;D

No just look at the cans..... monghole  ;D :P

Never looked at a can .... let alone drank from it.  :-? :y

 ;D ;D you tell more lies than Countess Dundee ;D ;D
Title: Re: Fine as art pupil loses fingers -BBC
Post by: Andy B on 14 October 2009, 01:20:30
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[..... we have more Pepsi Max than you can shake a stick at  ;D

Can you drink that sh1te? :-?  ::) ::) ;D ;D

No just look at the cans..... monghole  ;D :P

Never looked at a can .... let alone drank from it.  :-? :y

 ;D ;D you tell more lies than Countess Dundee ;D ;D

HONEST!!!!! I've only ever had a hand full of glasses of coke in my life ....... & they had a Bacardi or 2 in it ...... coke tastes sh1te to me.  :-? ;D ;D
Title: Re: Fine as art pupil loses fingers -BBC
Post by: Darth Loo-knee on 14 October 2009, 01:20:36
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When I worked as a Model for Ann Summers they used a hell of a lot of Plaster of Paris on me to form some of their best sellers.
I had a few friction burns in my time but no burns from the plaster.
Just thought I would share that with you my friends ;)

Have you been on the pop tonight?????  :-? ;)

Funny you should say that we have more Pepsi Max than you can shake a stick at  ;D
wouldnt drink that sh1te even if it was 10p a can. :D ;D

I would not even drink the rubbish even if I was given loads of boxes full which could empty into my back seat, cause some muppet left the box top open  ;D  ;D
Title: Re: Fine as art pupil loses fingers -BBC
Post by: Darth Loo-knee on 14 October 2009, 01:23:05
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[..... we have more Pepsi Max than you can shake a stick at  ;D

Can you drink that sh1te? :-?  ::) ::) ;D ;D

No just look at the cans..... monghole  ;D :P

Never looked at a can .... let alone drank from it.  :-? :y

 ;D ;D you tell more lies than Countess Dundee ;D ;D

HONEST!!!!! I've only ever had a hand full of snorts of coke in my life ....... & they had a Bacardi or 2 in it ...... coke tastes sh1te on its own to me.  :-? ;D ;D

Don't give all your secrets away mate I just ment I dont believe you had never seen a can! :D ;D
Title: Re: Fine as art pupil loses fingers -BBC
Post by: albitz on 14 October 2009, 01:23:35
.........and knacker the springs on your pram. :-X ::) ;D
Title: Re: Fine as art pupil loses fingers -BBC
Post by: Andy B on 14 October 2009, 01:30:27
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Quote
Quote
Quote
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[..... we have more Pepsi Max than you can shake a stick at  ;D

Can you drink that sh1te? :-?  ::) ::) ;D ;D

No just look at the cans..... monghole  ;D :P

Never looked at a can .... let alone drank from it.  :-? :y

 ;D ;D you tell more lies than Countess Dundee ;D ;D

HONEST!!!!! I've only ever had a hand full of snorts of coke in my life ....... & they had a Bacardi or 2 in it ...... coke tastes sh1te on its own to me.  :-? ;D ;D

Don't give all your secrets away mate I just ment I dont believe you had never seen a can! :D ;D
:-X :-X :-X :-X ;) ;D
Title: Re: Fine as art pupil loses fingers -BBC
Post by: Darth Loo-knee on 14 October 2009, 01:37:34
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.........and knacker the springs on your pram. :-X ::) ;D

Oh very original..... been having PM's with a certain Cross Dresser from Bolton have you eh? :D
Title: Re: Fine as art pupil loses fingers -BBC
Post by: albitz on 14 October 2009, 01:40:16
I thought the stickers on the side said cabriolet at first glance ,but on closer inspection with my glasses on it actually said mothercare. :P ::) ;D ;D
Title: Re: Fine as art pupil loses fingers -BBC
Post by: Darth Loo-knee on 14 October 2009, 01:43:38
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I thought the stickers on the side said cabriolet at first glance ,but on closer inspection with my glasses on it actually said mothercare. :P ::) ;D ;D

Mothercare on your glasses? you got your glasses from Mothercare? or do you mean you need "Another Pair"
Title: Re: Fine as art pupil loses fingers -BBC
Post by: albitz on 14 October 2009, 01:45:40
I actually get them from Ada,2 pairs for £1.99,which apparently explains a lot about my driving. ::) :-X
Title: Re: Fine as art pupil loses fingers -BBC
Post by: Darth Loo-knee on 14 October 2009, 01:48:08
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I actually get them from Ada,2 pairs for £1.99,which apparently explains a lot about my driving. ::) :-X

Sounds like a poundshop does Ada, wondered why you had Deirdre Barlow Bins on  :) In fact you did look rather like Penfold from Danger Mouse how very fitting for you this all seems ;D
Title: Re: Fine as art pupil loses fingers -BBC
Post by: albitz on 14 October 2009, 01:50:59
Could be worse,I could have went to the same place you did. :P :P ;D
Dont know anything about penfold,dont waste my time watching kids TV. :P ::) ;D