Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: Martin_1962 on 21 October 2009, 09:06:04
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Why do people like them - I have never understood?
Apart from some packaging benefits I do not know why the whole industry is obcessed with them.
I have even come across people who are scared of RWD, that I do not understand at all, I did offer reeducation but they turned me down.
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sometime ago I drive a volvo S70 t5 ..
definitely faster and cheaper than my miggy but my opinion : I wont give a penny.. ;D
for low power and consumption cars I can understand the principle ..but for the latter either RWD or AWD..
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I think FWD cars have come a long way in terms of development and handling in the past 10 years.
I guess we are a generation that prefer the car to oversteer rather than understeer... it's far easier (well, a more natural instinct) to correct oversteer.
In terms of manufacture it's far easier and cheaper to have the whole engine/gearbox/drivetrain mounted on a single subframe that just gets lifted under the car and a few mounting bolts tightened up.
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I think FWD cars have come a long way in terms of development and handling in the past 10 years.
I guess we are a generation that prefer the car to oversteer rather than understeer... it's far easier (well, a more natural instinct) to correct oversteer.
In terms of manufacture it's far easier and cheaper to have the whole engine/gearbox/drivetrain mounted on a single subframe that just gets lifted under the car and a few mounting bolts tightened up.
Nope, I cant stand WWD either ::)
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And I must note that also, if you are sensitive to front system noises like me, stay away from fwd.. for the clit I changed the whole front and still noisy >:(
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My feeling is that the vast majority of car users don't give a fig about pushing the limits of adhesion (which is pretty much what it's about) and the lack of incursion into the passenger cell makes it a no-brainer.
When we get electric pancake motors/generators in the wheel hubs I think that 4wd will become the norm.
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Why do people like them - I have never understood?
People don't like them - most don't care IME. Manufacturers love them because they are cheap to build. Engine, transmission, final drive, front subframe and suspension can be assembled as a single unit and half a dozen bolts later it's installed in the body.
Kevin
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My feeling is that the vast majority of car users don't give a fig about pushing the limits of adhesion (which is pretty much what it's about) and the lack of incursion into the passenger cell makes it a no-brainer.
When we get electric pancake motors/generators in the wheel hubs I think that 4wd will become the norm.
Only to start with, once the hubs become more efficient I can see them going back to wrong wheel drive :(
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Why do people like them - I have never understood?
People don't like them - most don't care IME. Manufacturers love them because they are cheap to build. Engine, transmission, final drive, front subframe and suspension can be assembled as a single unit and half a dozen bolts later it's installed in the body.
Kevin
yep..agreed.. and after, all parts needs replacing >:( >:(
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Cost and assembly.....its as simple as that
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I have always preferred RWD,but in reality in 99% of driving it makes little or no difference what wheel drive a car is. ;)
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I think it started off as a cost cutting measure.
Now it's the norm. Look at the vx range now, most are pretty much the same running gear and engine, just in a different shell. It's lazy and cheap that why it's done.
I can understand people being affraid of RWD, as it's not as forgiving if you f'up a corner. But this is not the car, it's the driver training at fault. How many times are you following a car and the person is breaking whilst in a corner? This is a relatively safe thing to do in WWD car, however a RWD car could potentially bite back if you do this. If people drove like you should, slow down prior to the corner and then power out, this wouldn't be an issue. Now imagine trying to explain to half the drivers out there that you need to keep a positive throttle in corners whilst driving RWD cars. Most won't even know if thier car is RWD or not, let alone what positive throttle is.
IMHO it's a shame that VX and other manufacturers don't offer more RWD cars. I want to start learning to drift when I can afford it, it'll be an Omega for me.
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Fast hatches are another thing - they try to follow fast RWDs in tight corners then end up over cooking it due to the different cornering requirements.
This was actually fun when I had the Sunbeam as the WWD behind me was so unsettled I though it was going to spin, I was braking in powering out.
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Actually people not caring is quite possibly the most realistic thing, personally I don't like the pulling through steering and the numbness under power, I also think it should be on TBs list!
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I think FWD cars have come a long way in terms of development and handling in the past 10 years.
Last drove one 4 years ago.
Felt very odd
As to removal, AFAIR to remove the engine from my Sunbeam was 2 bolts on engine, 2 on gearbox, a few on exhaust, remove carbs and wires - then lift out via bonnet.
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I think it started off as a cost cutting measure.
Now it's the norm. Look at the vx range now, most are pretty much the same running gear and engine, just in a different shell. It's lazy and cheap that why it's done.
I can understand people being affraid of RWD, as it's not as forgiving if you f'up a corner. But this is not the car, it's the driver training at fault. How many times are you following a car and the person is breaking whilst in a corner? This is a relatively safe thing to do in WWD car, however a RWD car could potentially bite back if you do this. If people drove like you should, slow down prior to the corner and then power out, this wouldn't be an issue. Now imagine trying to explain to half the drivers out there that you need to keep a positive throttle in corners whilst driving RWD cars. Most won't even know if thier car is RWD or not, let alone what positive throttle is.
IMHO it's a shame that VX and other manufacturers don't offer more RWD cars. I want to start learning to drift when I can afford it, it'll be an Omega for me.
No, its economical and sensible....its a dog eat dog world where re-use gives greater volumes and lower costs.
Its actually probably significantly harder to design a one fits all package.
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FWD also tends to have more foolproof handling imo.If the car runs wide,ease off the throttle and wind on more lock(the first reaction of most people) and it will tighten its line.Although if this is done too abrubtly with a hardish suspension set up (205 gti for example) it may well swap ends rather quickly.
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FWD also tends to have more foolproof handling imo.If the car runs wide,ease off the throttle and wind on more lock(the first reaction of most people) and it will tighten its line.Although if this is done too abrubtly with a hardish suspension set up (205 gti for example) it may well swap ends rather quickly.
Agreed ..........Albitz............many moons ago ....I had a Pug 205GTI....1.9.....which did just as you say...
I believe that the technical term is "lift off oversteer". :y :y :y
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So, in that case, why is there so much animosity by people against BMW, however, the people who have them seem to like them
They, with many Merc models, are the only real volume manufacturer of RWD vehicles
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So, in that case, why is there so much animosity by people against BMW, however, the people who have them seem to like them
They, with many Merc models, are the only real volume manufacturer of RWD vehicles
I like BMW cars, I think they are great. It's the people that buy and drive them that put me off them. Also there is a certain sheep feel to owning a 3 series BMW.
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So, in that case, why is there so much animosity by people against BMW, however, the people who have them seem to like them
They, with many Merc models, are the only real volume manufacturer of RWD vehicles
I think most BMW owners couldn't care less, or even tell you what wheel drive they are. It is more a case of having the badge and keeping up with the Jones's.
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And Mercs at the moment are just un-reliable heaps of rubbish
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And Mercs at the moment are just un-reliable heaps of rubbish
That have big rust problems after a few years....
....Still they've done there 3 year company lease by then...
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FWD also tends to have more foolproof handling imo.If the car runs wide,ease off the throttle and wind on more lock(the first reaction of most people) and it will tighten its line.Although if this is done too abrubtly with a hardish suspension set up (205 gti for example) it may well swap ends rather quickly.
That doesn't quite agree with the 'floor it to pull it back into line' that I work to!
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sometime ago I drive a volvo S70 t5 ..
definitely faster and cheaper than my miggy but my opinion : I wont give a penny.. ;D
for low power and consumption cars I can understand the principle ..but for the latter either RWD or AWD..
Agreed.....Cem......FWD cars are fine for girlies to go shopping in ........but all really powerful cars are RWD.
A friend of mine owned a Alfa 147.....with a 3.2 litre V6..............driving the FRONT wheels.....with 250 BHP...traction control system seemed to be working overtime. :y :y :y
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sometime ago I drive a volvo S70 t5 ..
definitely faster and cheaper than my miggy but my opinion : I wont give a penny.. ;D
for low power and consumption cars I can understand the principle ..but for the latter either RWD or AWD..
Agreed.....Cem......FWD cars are fine for girlies to go shopping in ........but all really powerful cars are RWD.
A friend of mine owned a Alfa 147.....with a 3.2 litre V6..............driving the FRONT wheels.....with 250 BHP...traction control system seemed to be working overtime. :y :y :y
Clarkson showed something on a clit 3.0 V6..
When he let the steering free and pushes the accelerator a little the steering turns 180 degrees just at the start up :o
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sometime ago I drive a volvo S70 t5 ..
definitely faster and cheaper than my miggy but my opinion : I wont give a penny.. ;D
for low power and consumption cars I can understand the principle ..but for the latter either RWD or AWD..
Agreed.....Cem......FWD cars are fine for girlies to go shopping in ........but all really powerful cars are RWD.
A friend of mine owned a Alfa 147.....with a 3.2 litre V6..............driving the FRONT wheels.....with 250 BHP...traction control system seemed to be working overtime. :y :y :y
Clarkson showed something on a clit 3.0 V6..
When he let the steering free and pushes the accelerator a little the steering turns 180 degrees just at the start up :o
Do you remember that Vectra on Steroids that features on TG? Fantastic in a straight line because under power thats all it would do :D
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for the traffic light grand prix on a short distance fwd cars are ok..but on the first curve they are everywhere.. :-/
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from the fwd this one is definitely ok..
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QS8wT6nCOyo&NR=1&feature=fvwp
[/media]
but apparently not this one :-/
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yy4kPODqv58[/media]