Omega Owners Forum

Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: JamesV6CDX on 08 February 2007, 17:33:40

Title: Official LPG conversion thread + Pics
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 08 February 2007, 17:33:40
This is the official thread for the DIY LPG conversion on my new Omega 2.0.

Please can I seriously request, that while anyone is welcome to post in this thread, can we keep the topic strictly focused on the subject. Off topic posts will be deleted by Admins, possibly with other consequences ;)

The plan

I have bought a scrap 2.0 16v Omega, with an OMVL sequential gas conversion on it. The plan is, to remove this conversion, and make a really good job of installing it on the new Omega. And then get it certified.

We will be using some OOF teamwork and working together on this one.

Martin Imber, our resident DIY LPG guru, is local to me and has kindly offered to lend a hand with the conversion and pass on his knowledge. My electrician friend Markie will be involved, and hopefully Tunnie will be joining us, dependant on time constraints.

We will be doing this over a couple or more weekends - whatever is required to make a thorough job.

The car will be kept "mobile" at all times, so it can be moved wherever it needs to be.

This thread will be updated with our progress, and of course plenty of pictures.



Title: Re: Official LPG conversion thread + Pics
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 08 February 2007, 17:40:56
Today, due to being well and truly snowed in - after carefully studying the wiring diagram Martin found me for this LPG installation, Markie and I decided to get to work and remove some LPG components!

We have made some good progress. The tank has been removed, as has the front end LPG loom, ECU, vaporisor, changeover switch, Coolant hoses and T peices, inlet manifold with the LPG injectors, vaccum thing (!), LPG hoses etc.

Very few wires were cut, but those that were, we are confident of what they are and where they need to go.

Everything removed has been photographed or labelled, and has been sucesfully referenced against the wiring/installation diagram Martin sent me.

It's not completely done, there is one blue wire we need to follow from the engine bay to the back, but we know where on the loom it belongs, so it's OK. Also need to remove the supporting bars in the boot, for the LPG tank.

Photo's to appear below in a tick...
Title: Re: Official LPG conversion thread + Pics
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 08 February 2007, 17:49:21
Slowly being stripped...

(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k205/jamesv6cdx/DSC02962.jpg)

The ECU

(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k205/jamesv6cdx/DSC02981.jpg)

Vapouriser

(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k205/jamesv6cdx/DSC02982.jpg)

Inlet manifold with injectors

(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k205/jamesv6cdx/DSC02975.jpg)

(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k205/jamesv6cdx/DSC02977.jpg)

(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k205/jamesv6cdx/DSC02976.jpg)

Gas tank!

(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k205/jamesv6cdx/DSC02949.jpg)

(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k205/jamesv6cdx/DSC02955.jpg)

Loom on it's way out...

(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k205/jamesv6cdx/DSC02974.jpg)

Connections on tank..

(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k205/jamesv6cdx/DSC02954.jpg)

Connections to vapourisor

(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k205/jamesv6cdx/DSC02953.jpg)

Wires being identified..

(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k205/jamesv6cdx/DSC02964.jpg)

LPG kit anyone?!

(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k205/jamesv6cdx/DSC02980.jpg)

(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k205/jamesv6cdx/DSC02958.jpg)

The working conditions!

(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k205/jamesv6cdx/DSC02973.jpg)

Title: Re: Official LPG conversion thread + Pics
Post by: Martin_1962 on 08 February 2007, 18:08:30
Well that is a very good start.

I reckon it will almost fall on to the new car
Title: Re: Official LPG conversion thread + Pics
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 08 February 2007, 18:13:24
Quote
Well that is a very good start.

I reckon it will almost fall on to the new car

I wasn't intending on doing anything today, but being snowed in here all day, what better to do!!

I must admit there were a couple of dubious looking connections, which will have to be much improved when refitted.

I'm pleased you think it will work well! On the basis that I wasn't able to test this LPG kit out on it's old car, what do you think are the chances something major won't work?

Looking at the way it was fitted, it all seemed a bit "precarious".. I'm no expert, but I cannot see it being done by Avon Autogas like that..

Title: Re: Official LPG conversion thread + Pics
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 08 February 2007, 18:17:27
The RPM wire you mention, is attached to one of the DIS wires.
Title: Re: Official LPG conversion thread + Pics
Post by: Martin_1962 on 08 February 2007, 20:07:28
Quote
The RPM wire you mention, is attached to one of the DIS wires.


Coil feed then!

You reckon it looked a bit sloppy as well.

At least it can go on a bit neater.

How was the evaporator feed organised, also get all that plumbing including the T pieces
Title: Re: Official LPG conversion thread + Pics
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 08 February 2007, 20:13:49
Quote
Quote
The RPM wire you mention, is attached to one of the DIS wires.


Coil feed then!

You reckon it looked a bit sloppy as well.

At least it can go on a bit neater.

How was the evaporator feed organised, also get all that plumbing including the T pieces

T peices not a problem

Not 100% sure what you mean, but, there is a 6mm pipe coming from the tank into the engine bay, into the vaporiser (I think?)

From here, there is a thicker pipe that goes over the rocker cover, which is the liquid lpg feed to the injectors??
Title: Re: Official LPG conversion thread + Pics
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 08 February 2007, 20:37:09
70 Litre LPG tank. Apparently will only fill to 80% of capacity, which means it should hold 56 litres.

Which means at 43.9p a litre, it will cost £24.58 to fill. At 28mpg, this will cover 344 miles. Works out at 7p a mile.

(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k205/jamesv6cdx/DSC02966.jpg)  
Title: Re: Official LPG conversion thread + Pics
Post by: tunnie on 08 February 2007, 21:18:21
As you pointed out some suspect connections there need to be improved. Is there anyway of testing some of the core components out of the engine?
Title: Re: Official LPG conversion thread + Pics
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 08 February 2007, 21:22:27
Quote
As you pointed out some suspect connections there need to be improved. Is there anyway of testing some of the core components out of the engine?

I doubt it,

To be honest, this is a lot simpler than the old mixer LPG systems. The only real front end components, are the Vapouriser, the ECU and a load of wires that need to be attached to the cars loom.

So not a lot mechanically to go wrong, that I can see.

Hopefully it will all "fall on the new car" as Martin thinks  :y
Title: Re: Official LPG conversion thread + Pics
Post by: Martin_1962 on 08 February 2007, 21:48:25
Quote
Quote
Quote
The RPM wire you mention, is attached to one of the DIS wires.


Coil feed then!

You reckon it looked a bit sloppy as well.

At least it can go on a bit neater.

How was the evaporator feed organised, also get all that plumbing including the T pieces

T peices not a problem

Not 100% sure what you mean, but, there is a 6mm pipe coming from the tank into the engine bay, into the vaporiser (I think?)

From here, there is a thicker pipe that goes over the rocker cover, which is the liquid lpg feed to the injectors??

Plumbing - the water pipes to and from the evaporator

Mind you have you found the gas main route?
Title: Re: Official LPG conversion thread + Pics
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 08 February 2007, 21:58:49
Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
The RPM wire you mention, is attached to one of the DIS wires.


Coil feed then!

You reckon it looked a bit sloppy as well.

At least it can go on a bit neater.

How was the evaporator feed organised, also get all that plumbing including the T pieces

T peices not a problem

Not 100% sure what you mean, but, there is a 6mm pipe coming from the tank into the engine bay, into the vaporiser (I think?)

From here, there is a thicker pipe that goes over the rocker cover, which is the liquid lpg feed to the injectors??

Plumbing - the water pipes to and from the evaporator

Mind you have you found the gas main route?

By gas main route, do you mean the pipe from Tank to engine bay? If so, then no.. as the ground was covered in snow and I was too chicken to get under the car ;D
Title: Re: Official LPG conversion thread + Pics
Post by: Martin_1962 on 08 February 2007, 21:59:56
Quote
Quote
As you pointed out some suspect connections there need to be improved. Is there anyway of testing some of the core components out of the engine?

I doubt it,

To be honest, this is a lot simpler than the old mixer LPG systems. The only real front end components, are the Vapouriser, the ECU and a load of wires that need to be attached to the cars loom.

So not a lot mechanically to go wrong, that I can see.

Hopefully it will all "fall on the new car" as Martin thinks  :y

I would say that moving this system over would be one of the easiest LPG things to do
Title: Re: Official LPG conversion thread + Pics
Post by: Martin_1962 on 08 February 2007, 22:00:36
Quote
As you pointed out some suspect connections there need to be improved. Is there anyway of testing some of the core components out of the engine?

Not as far as I know - if it doesn't work yet all tests OK - off to a specialist
Title: Re: Official LPG conversion thread + Pics
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 08 February 2007, 22:02:29
Quote
Quote
Quote
As you pointed out some suspect connections there need to be improved. Is there anyway of testing some of the core components out of the engine?

I doubt it,

To be honest, this is a lot simpler than the old mixer LPG systems. The only real front end components, are the Vapouriser, the ECU and a load of wires that need to be attached to the cars loom.

So not a lot mechanically to go wrong, that I can see.

Hopefully it will all "fall on the new car" as Martin thinks  :y

I would say that moving this system over would be one of the easiest LPG things to do

You have no idea how much confidence that gives me!!
Title: Re: Official LPG conversion thread + Pics
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 08 February 2007, 22:16:47
When I get this car, I presume to save time I could fit the inlet manifold with the LPG injectors onto it before coming down to you, and just drive it down on petrol?
Title: Re: Official LPG conversion thread + Pics
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 09 February 2007, 09:42:05
Martin - some points below from OMVL that we may need to bear in mind.

On a brighter note, looks like I was correct in as much as we are OK to use the OMVL setup software 100% legally and therefore discuss it publically on the forum.



From: OMVL  - FES Autogas Ltd <omvl@fesautogas.co.uk>
Date: Feb 9, 2007 9:01 AM
Subject: Re: Software
To: xxxxx
Cc: Dai - FES Autogas Ltd <Dai@fesautogas.co.uk>


James,
 
It is perfectly legal for you to use the software on your car no problems at all.
 
The only thing to bear in mind is that you can make small changes that will still make the car run ok but it could be out on it's emissions and if you ever get this checked by those VOSA / Police check guys at the side of the road they can stop you driving your car.  perhaps where you live this is not a problem but here in North Wales we have daily random vehicle checks for things like this and red diesel in tanks etc, so it is a problem for us here.
 
best wishes,
 
Nick
 
Ask for some information on our latest Flashlube fuel & oil products.
 
Try Our Local Rate Fax Number for your Next Order : 0845 230 1829
 
Flashlube UK is part of FES Group of Companies.
FES Autogas is OMVL's Sole Approved UK Distributor for the Dream XX1N Gas Injection System.
Local rate Telephone number 0845 230 1819
tel +44( 0 ) 1286 882097.
www.fesautogas.co.uk  & www.flashlubeuk.com
'FES Autogas & Flashlube UK' - The most service orientated equipment suppliers in the UK'
All prices quoted plus VAT & delivery


----- Original Message -----

From: xxxx
To: xxxxx
Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2007 6:36 PM
Subject: Software


Good evening,
 
I have aquired a car with an OMVL gas injection kit fitted.
 
As far as the software for this goes, I have obtained a copy. but didn't get it with the kit, and am not aware that I have a licence for this. Presumably, because I own the LPG kit, it is legal for me to use this software?
 
I would very much appreciate of you could let me know before I use the software, as obviously I do not want to infringe any regulations such as licencing or copyright.
 
Kind regards
 
xxxxx
Title: Re: Official LPG conversion thread + Pics
Post by: Martin_1962 on 09 February 2007, 09:42:07
Quote
When I get this car, I presume to save time I could fit the inlet manifold with the LPG injectors onto it before coming down to you, and just drive it down on petrol?

Yes after cleaning it and fitting new gaskets ect.

Block the holes with the injector pipes - don't need to be connected to the loom to act as plugs.

To be absolutely honest I think you will be fine. I know I am there mainly to support as I am sure you two could do it, but it is better to have someone who has done it before helping.

I also have been thinking.

TANK
------

Well it is a dangerous thing to have rolling about in the boot. Also it is  a simple job.

Firstly fit the tow bar - make sure the front two bolts are well tight as you won't see them again!! Don't worry about ball or wiring, bal can be sorted with 12S when filler is fitted.

Carefully measure where the support frame was fitted to the scrapper and fit to exact same place in the nice one.

Then drop tank on!

So when I see it you will have the manifold, tank, & tow bar fitted.

Some warnings

There are two dangers with LPG, one is the gas and the fact it burns - all tank stuff do outside in fresh air. Also see if you can operate the solenoid while the tank is upside down - this will shift any air which could be in the tank. The second is frost bite. The liquid will give you frost bite, keeps hands and faces away from the stuff.
Title: Re: Official LPG conversion thread + Pics
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 09 February 2007, 09:43:52
Cheers Martin - also see my above post about the OMVL software.
Title: Re: Official LPG conversion thread + Pics
Post by: Martin_1962 on 09 February 2007, 10:02:20
Good news about the software

The flashlube is mainly used with Fords and other soft valve seat cars. Should be OK with GM
Title: Re: Official LPG conversion thread + Pics
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 09 February 2007, 10:27:27
In terms of getting together, my days off are:

Monday 12th Feb
Tuesday 13th Feb

(Intend to fit manifold + hopefully the tank on these days)

Sat 17th Feb
Sun 18th Feb


Free all weekend


Monday 19th Feb
Tue 20th Feb
Wed 21 Feb
Fri 23rd Feb

I'm on "cover" all of these days, so could have to go into work if someone is sick. Otherwise free to tinker.

Saturday 24th Feb
Sunday 25 Feb


Again, on cover these days, but doubt I will be working.


Monday 26th Feb
Tuesday 27th Feb

Free

Sat 3rd March, free lunchtime onwards (need to sleep, am on nights the night before
Sun 4th March, free all day.


I gather weekends are good for you, these dates are in bold. Obviously I'll fit in with you as best I possibly can!

Feel free to pick out of any of the above dates if you like!


Title: Re: Official LPG conversion thread + Pics
Post by: Martin_1962 on 09 February 2007, 11:30:27
A few hours next week end should be fine just need to sort out which day and how long, don't want Sue moaning too much :-X

A lot also depends on weather and if Sue is mystery shopping.
Title: Re: Official LPG conversion thread + Pics
Post by: VXL V6 on 09 February 2007, 11:39:29
Can I just add a note about drilling holes in the boot area - Please delete this if not required.

When drilling through the boot floor please be extremely careful if anywhere near the petrol tank. (Most cars have the tank under the rear seat so are ok).

In the days of fixed carphones where the Transciever lived in the boot it was not unknown for installation engineers to not check and drill straight through the floor and though the top of the petrol tank, obviously the consequences of a hot drill bit into petrol / petrol fumes isn't ideal!
Title: Re: Official LPG conversion thread + Pics
Post by: Martin_1962 on 09 February 2007, 11:45:39
Manifold - couple of hours, tank - couple of hours by TWO people (I did it with a 9 year old helper!)

The tank sits over the front tow bar holes - so if you fit one (if not you drill hole in side panel) get that on after.

Do not carry the tank around loose - if it isn't fitted for your first visit do it for the second.

First visit we will check what is what and then work from there.

Where was the ECU located?

Can it easily go in the same place on the new car?

Should be plenty to do between visits
Title: Re: Official LPG conversion thread + Pics
Post by: Martin_1962 on 09 February 2007, 11:47:55
Quote
Can I just add a note about drilling holes in the boot area - Please delete this if not required.

When drilling through the boot floor please be extremely careful if anywhere near the petrol tank. (Most cars have the tank under the rear seat so are ok).

In the days of fixed carphones where the Transciever lived in the boot it was not unknown for installation engineers to not check and drill straight through the floor and though the top of the petrol tank, obviously the consequences of a hot drill bit into petrol / petrol fumes isn't ideal!

The petrol tank is behind the axle - there is a small safe area for drilling about 100mm square, just avoiding chassis rails and petrol fuel pump.

All else fails look at what was done last time!!
Title: Re: Official LPG conversion thread + Pics
Post by: Ken T on 09 February 2007, 15:42:09
Have you managed to get a dongle for the software?. You might find that you are limited in what you can do in the way of setting up the ECU without one. I am planning an install of a similar system (Dream C) that I bought via Ebay from, guess who, Avon Autogas. They sent me the programming lead and software, but no dongle. I powered up the ECU on the bench, a 12V feed to the ECU main fed and switched line, connected it up to the laptop and found I could only check a few things but not alter them. FES wanted about £65 plus VAT for the dongle, a bit expensive but........ There may be some software out there that doesn't need this, you will find that a lot of the Italian LPG stuff is made by AEB, and several companies buy it and 'badge engineer' it, hence software for another system might work. Thanks for all your photos, esp showing where the injectors are located. I confess to being slightly worried about taking off my inlet manifold and starting to drill holes in it, in case I make a mistake and have to start looking for another manifold. :y
Title: Re: Official LPG conversion thread + Pics
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 09 February 2007, 15:45:39
Quote
Have you managed to get a dongle for the software?. You might find that you are limited in what you can do in the way of setting up the ECU without one. I am planning an install of a similar system (Dream C) that I bought via Ebay from, guess who, Avon Autogas. They sent me the programming lead and software, but no dongle. I powered up the ECU on the bench, a 12V feed to the ECU main fed and switched line, connected it up to the laptop and found I could only check a few things but not alter them. FES wanted about £65 plus VAT for the dongle, a bit expensive but........ There may be some software out there that doesn't need this, you will find that a lot of the Italian LPG stuff is made by AEB, and several companies buy it and 'badge engineer' it, hence software for another system might work. Thanks for all your photos, esp showing where the injectors are located. I confess to being slightly worried about taking off my inlet manifold and starting to drill holes in it, in case I make a mistake and have to start looking for another manifold. :y

Martin? ;D
Title: Re: Official LPG conversion thread + Pics
Post by: Martin_1962 on 09 February 2007, 18:49:30
1) Software ect ask at groups.yahoo.com

2) Manifold - sorry too few cylinders :D
Title: Re: Official LPG conversion thread + Pics
Post by: Ken T on 09 February 2007, 22:16:44
Just had a reply back from Nick at FES, he says "your associate only need a dongle if you want to open the gas map and other features, but in reality it is not really necessary for him". I guess he remembers your original query, and also as you are shifting between the same type and size engines, then you probably won't need to adjust settings. There are several versions of the Dream N software around, so its probable that there is one that will work without hardware. You should be OK, as you have someone with previous experience to help. Can I come along with a camcorder and we can do an "LPG Install Guide"?.  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Official LPG conversion thread + Pics
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 10 February 2007, 22:00:01
Big big big big Insurance concern. I guess I must tell my insurance company about the LPG?

Here's the scenario. I'm 23, insurance is a killer. The only reasonable insurance I can get is with Directline.

I spoke to Directline last year when I wanted to DIY LPG convert a different car. They told me that it's a NO-GO - they specifically WILL NOT UNDER ANY ACCOUNT insure any car that's had DIY LPG, even if it's later been certified. They will ONLY insure a car that's been converted by somewhere LPGA approved.

However, they did indicate, that if I bought a car already with uncertified LPG, it would be acceptable to get it certified, and then could be insured.

But they made it crystal clear, that if it's done DIY, they won't insure me.

I had the same response of all other companies that I asked.

So the only thing I can think of doing, is going ahead with this DIY conversion, getting it certified, and then, and only then, insure it - on the pretence that the car was converted when I got it, and I then got it certified.

My problem is, If I insure it now, then I would later have to declare the LPG. And they'd want to know who converted it  :-X

But on the other hand, I need to pick it up and ideally start driving it on Monday, hence need insurance.

Any ideas?

:(
Title: Re: Official LPG conversion thread + Pics
Post by: Martin_1962 on 10 February 2007, 22:16:22
Firstly if you have certification how do they know it is DIY?

Secondly no problems with Fortis

Thirdly have you enroled on the LPG Yahoo Group yet? Ask for more details there

Title: Re: Official LPG conversion thread + Pics
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 10 February 2007, 22:18:23
Quote

Firstly if you have certification how do they know it is DIY?

Secondly no problems with Fortis

Thirdly have you enroled on the LPG Yahoo Group yet? Ask for more details there


Good point on the first one. I'll just swap my insurance over.

I'll get a quote from Fortis, but most other companies apart from directline hate me because of my age!

I'll sign up tomorrow morning at work :)
Title: Re: Official LPG conversion thread + Pics
Post by: Martin_1962 on 10 February 2007, 22:22:00
I suggested them because I am currently with them due to my MV6 incident.

LPG should help because boy racers would not install it
Title: Re: Official LPG conversion thread + Pics
Post by: Martin_1962 on 10 February 2007, 22:23:59
OK Insurance, well this might be a time to talk to an agent or broker and let them do the hard work, they will of course collect their commission but it might be worth it
Title: Re: Official LPG conversion thread + Pics
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 10 February 2007, 22:29:43
I'll just insure it with Directline for now, and worry about getting covered on the LPG afterwards........
Title: Re: Official LPG conversion thread + Pics
Post by: Martin_1962 on 11 February 2007, 10:43:33
Just photocopy the certificate and fax it!!!!
Title: Re: Official LPG conversion thread + Pics
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 11 February 2007, 10:49:51
Quote
Just photocopy the certificate and fax it!!!!

Presumably it wouldn't say anything on the certificate about it being DIY, or indicate that the certifying centre didn't do the conversion?
Title: Re: Official LPG conversion thread + Pics
Post by: Ken T on 11 February 2007, 13:08:34
There is a lot of politics going on here. The LPG association are lobbying insurance companies only to accept work done by their members, so this puts more work their way. There is a Code of Practise, COP 11 that an installation is supposed to meet, and when you get your car checked it should meet this. You can find this on the Web. When you ask for insurance, say that you are thinking of having the car converted and it will be tested and certified. No need to say who is doing the work. Its none of their business really. Whats next, should I tell my insurance that I changed my Cam Belt, or changed the brake fluid myself?. Provided the work is safe and has a certificate to prove it then there is no real insurance risk. The site that Martin recommended has an interesting post about certification and insurance companies. Another site, www.lpgaforum.co.uk is also interesting as there are quite a few installers who sometimes reply to people's questions, in a slightly biased way ;D ;D  
Title: Re: Official LPG conversion thread + Pics
Post by: Taxi_Driver on 11 February 2007, 20:13:18
Quote
I'll just insure it with Directline for now, and worry about getting covered on the LPG afterwards........

James, i would just insure it as a petrol for now.....when you have converted it and gained a lpga certificate for it.....then send a copy of the certificate to your insurers....if they try to put the premium up because of the conversion....then id suggest searching around for another insurance comp.....mine was perfectly happy it had been converted.....in fact a conversation i had with them was.....just in case send a copy of the certificate....which i have done.....and no premium increase  :y

Good luck on the conversion  :y
Title: Re: Official LPG conversion thread + Pics
Post by: Craig_R on 12 February 2007, 16:16:14
My Insurance Company Were Good About Mine Being Converted To LPG They never asked for a certificate, Guy who had the car before me never told his it was converted and just insured it as a petrol Which I thought Was MAD as if anything happened they would not pay up.

Saying that my insurance went up slightly this year to £300 a year was not a happy chappy I could ring around but with them being so good about it being LPG and not asking For the Cert and Causing Problems I thought I would Stay with them.

I would be up for popping over maybe with my 2 Litre LPG on a weekend so you can have a look at mine intallation but mine is a Mixer System not an injector System.

Craig
Title: Re: Official LPG conversion thread + Pics
Post by: Martin_1962 on 13 February 2007, 12:45:01
Hello James - time for an update from you

Saturday we are busy - some time Sunday should be fine.
Title: Re: Official LPG conversion thread + Pics
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 13 February 2007, 15:44:52
Quote
Hello James - time for an update from you

Saturday we are busy - some time Sunday should be fine.

Hello Martin, sorry for the delay, I've been extremely busy myself.

Sunday is absolutely fine by me. I only picked up the car yesterday, and I've not yet done the manifold change, but I'll try my utmost to do this on Saturday before I come over, that shouldn't be a problem.

I'll also bring over all the LPG kit that I've removed (obviously) - and of course the CD GLS! :)

Maybe you could PM me a phone number, and an address for where I'm going when you're ready?

Cheers
James
Title: Re: Official LPG conversion thread + Pics
Post by: Martin_1962 on 13 February 2007, 19:02:49
Well this time we will just have a look as not much has been done, but it would be worth getting a job list sorted.

Don't bring the tank as if you have an accident it could cause serious injury, unless strapped in tightly

Most of the jobs I feel that you and your friend will be happy doing as long as you know why and when and where.

After checking over and ruminating, I think tank then evaporator plumbing - possibly do the plumbing here.

I get the feeling this kit will just fall on.

Have you thouroughly cleaned the LPG inlet manifold yet?
Title: Re: Official LPG conversion thread + Pics
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 13 February 2007, 21:10:58
Quote
Well this time we will just have a look as not much has been done, but it would be worth getting a job list sorted.

Don't bring the tank as if you have an accident it could cause serious injury, unless strapped in tightly

Most of the jobs I feel that you and your friend will be happy doing as long as you know why and when and where.

After checking over and ruminating, I think tank then evaporator plumbing - possibly do the plumbing here.

I get the feeling this kit will just fall on.

Have you thouroughly cleaned the LPG inlet manifold yet?

Cheers Martin, sounds like a plan. By the time I fit that manifold on Sat it will be sqeaky clean.

I'm sure, with your guidance, we will be happy to undertake much of what needs doing. It's just reassuring to have somone set us off in the right direction, and also, I want to make sure what we're doing meets the LPGA code of practice, or equivelent of whatever is needed to get certified.

:)
Title: Re: Official LPG conversion thread + Pics
Post by: Martin_1962 on 13 February 2007, 22:21:19
Well Saturday will be busy so a couple of hours on Sunday sometime will be set aside for a look around and to sort a plan.

What part of Cheltenham do you live in? I live in Warndon Villages - about 1/2 mile from M5 north junction.

I used to live in Twigworth and moved up here for work, as I had licence problems caused by commuting by bike!!!!
Title: Re: Official LPG conversion thread + Pics
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 14 February 2007, 07:18:49
Quote
Well Saturday will be busy so a couple of hours on Sunday sometime will be set aside for a look around and to sort a plan.

What part of Cheltenham do you live in? I live in Warndon Villages - about 1/2 mile from M5 north junction.

I used to live in Twigworth and moved up here for work, as I had licence problems caused by commuting by bike!!!!

Licence problems.... Quality ;D

I live with my friends just outside Cheltenham, near Whittington/Dowdeswell.

I can come over to you anytime at all, afternoon would be preferable, but obviously I will fit in with you.

Title: Re: Official LPG conversion thread + Pics
Post by: Martin_1962 on 14 February 2007, 10:37:27
I know the area roughly - where the road from Birdlip joins the A40.

Back in the late 80s the Police and courts used to concentrate on bikes. Even to the stage that an aquaintance was pulled while being overtaken by a car who was bombing it.

The obsession with traffic is still there around Gloucester with high crime rates and lots of silly limits. eg A38 was dropped from 40 to 30 due to an accident with a drugged up girl on the northern bypass.

Sunday - will need to do weeks shop at one stage however Sue can walk there and I'll pick upp if necessary, I also will have two helpers, one of which will want to use his spanner.
Title: Re: Official LPG conversion thread + Pics
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 18 February 2007, 09:57:15
Martin - a touch late, but I'm just about to leave providing we're on for today? You have PM..
Title: Re: Official LPG conversion thread + Pics
Post by: Martin_1962 on 18 February 2007, 13:46:58
OK

The GLS is quite nice, definately GLS despite the air con and the CD wheels.

The fog light wiring is horrid!

Sounds nice as well

Well the LPG seems OK except for a stuck open injector, I will be investigating this.

We will put the main gas pipe in here
Title: Re: Official LPG conversion thread + Pics
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 18 February 2007, 21:15:40
Quote
OK

The GLS is quite nice, definately GLS despite the air con and the CD wheels.

The fog light wiring is horrid!

Sounds nice as well

Well the LPG seems OK except for a stuck open injector, I will be investigating this.

We will put the main gas pipe in here

Cheers Martin, it was lovely to meet you, and I'm really going to appreciate your guidance! I look forward to what you find out about the stuck injector on number 3..

Title: Re: Official LPG conversion thread + Pics
Post by: Martin_1962 on 18 February 2007, 21:36:28
Quote
Quote
OK

The GLS is quite nice, definately GLS despite the air con and the CD wheels.

The fog light wiring is horrid!

Sounds nice as well

Well the LPG seems OK except for a stuck open injector, I will be investigating this.

We will put the main gas pipe in here

Cheers Martin, it was lovely to meet you, and I'm really going to appreciate your guidance! I look forward to what you find out about the stuck injector on number 3..


We had a good chat, had a good look around the GLS, definately in need of detailing on the stone chips, fog lights must go along with the tacky switch and the bodged wiring.

My posted message is not yet on the Yaho message board so can you email OMVL tomorrow?

I have donated a towbar socket holder to use as a gas filler bracket - you tend to collect these and better than chucking it!!!!

The manifold cannot be fitted until the injector is repaired or replaced, I also feel that the faulty injector may have caused some of the problems with the 2.0CD.

Plans are as follows, get as much fitted at James - towbar, tank base, manifold, probably water plumbing, I had worked out what was what, the cut injectors are not as neat on the 2.0 as compared to the V6s. James will stock up on Jubilee clips, there were definate bodges on the install when removed.

ECU will go in engine compartment - it is smaller than my Romano System N.

I THINK my LPG setup cable will work James will bring up a laptop to check. One thing I would prefer if possible is to switch from coil feed to RPM feed, but it is not important!

Wiring not sure if to do it here or not.

In a few weeks we will meet up back in Worcester to do the gas pipe, James will supply the pipe, olives ect, I'll supply tools and some experience, and burgers for dinner.

Been having a think, what is to be done about that switch hole?

Considering fitting the controller switch there.

I have the ramps, and a hydraulic jack and possibly if I find them some axle stands.

James will check the filler to see if we can towbar mount it to save buying another, I had one - a bit dented so not happy to use it.

The GLS definately has the potential to be a good car, just need the rear electric windows, James had a Twin (Alex I think) asking what the handle was for ;D ;D ;D ;D. And also the detailing on the paint chips.
Title: Re: Official LPG conversion thread + Pics
Post by: Martin_1962 on 19 February 2007, 15:34:35
The dodgy injector - any news?

I have posted on Yahoo LPG group but no replies yet.

Have you contacted the importers?

Title: Re: Official LPG conversion thread + Pics
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 19 February 2007, 15:36:13
Quote
The dodgy injector - any news?

I have posted on Yahoo LPG group but no replies yet.

Have you contacted the importers?


I have sent an email, no news yet....
Title: Re: Official LPG conversion thread + Pics
Post by: Ken T on 19 February 2007, 16:07:47
there was a discussion on www.lpgforum.co.uk about "omvl dream 21 injector/regulator" on Jan 18th. They were complaining about not being able to service the dream injector rail when all that was gone was a small O ring. Romano injectors were reconed to be a lot more reliable and easier to clean. I think you can fit either on the dream ECU. The word was that FES will sell a 'recon rail' for about £75 inc vat, so if they try to charge a lot, just remind them that they are often on this forum, and the prices mentioned. :y :y
Title: Re: Official LPG conversion thread + Pics
Post by: Martin_1962 on 19 February 2007, 16:58:40
Interesting I'll search that when I get home - I will also email Autogas WorldWide to price up 4 Romano injectors and a supply rail with temperature sensor.

But will Romano ones be compatible?
Title: Re: Official LPG conversion thread + Pics
Post by: Martin_1962 on 19 February 2007, 17:04:01
http://www.my90.co.uk/lpgforum/messages/898/3853.html?1169107125

Could be the O ring jamming it
Title: Re: Official LPG conversion thread + Pics
Post by: Martin_1962 on 19 February 2007, 17:13:16
Hmmm interesting read

Looks like a phone call is worth while!

Get an exchange unit
Title: Re: Official LPG conversion thread + Pics
Post by: Martin_1962 on 19 February 2007, 19:18:47
http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-8076664271059055732

A bit corny!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FDWoYcfbkto
Title: Re: Official LPG conversion thread + Pics
Post by: Martin_1962 on 19 February 2007, 23:14:45
I'm on to a local OMVL installer and if he agrees to look at them you will have to get them to Inkberrow.

But it looks like you may need a recon injector assembly.

At this stage all is in the air, but I think selling the two cars will supply the recon money if necessary.
Title: Re: Official LPG conversion thread + Pics
Post by: Martin_1962 on 19 February 2007, 23:17:50
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/lp-gas/messages

Being discussed here!
Title: Re: Official LPG conversion thread + Pics
Post by: Martin_1962 on 19 February 2007, 23:20:39
My Romano lead will work!!!!
Title: Re: Official LPG conversion thread + Pics
Post by: Martin_1962 on 20 February 2007, 09:11:36
Bernard will have a look at them - you need to get them to the Lenches, north of Evesham.

If he can fix them he will otherwise send them back to FES for overhaul.

Remember you will save about 50 or so a month, but you may have to spend it to save it.

OMVL injectors do appear to need rebuilding every 50,000 miles or so
Title: Re: Official LPG conversion thread + Pics
Post by: Ken T on 20 February 2007, 10:24:25
I was going to say that I have a lead for the Dream 21C and one of the multi system programming kits if you are stuck, but that sounds good that your Romano lead will work. Sounds like the ECU's are compatable to some extent!. That Bernard chap is very helpful, unlike a lot of the installers on the other forum!. ;D   Also Mark who responded in your thread, has just rebuilt a Rover engine, http://forums.mg-rover.org/showthread.php?t=132776, and by the looks of it done an amazing job. :y  I think the Romano injectors just get piped together, they are 'daisy chained'. I wonder if you could add one Romano injector onto the end of the OMVL chain to replace the fault injector?. They do say that the Romano ones are about £36 each, which is a lot cheaper than a whole OMVL rail. :y
Title: Re: Official LPG conversion thread + Pics
Post by: Martin_1962 on 20 February 2007, 13:17:15
The Romano ones are a different design totally and I cannot see how you can replace one OMVL with one Romano, the OMVL are in a block and if one goes the lot goes.

To use Romano you need 4 at £36 plus the manifold at however much.

If they are duff I think getting recon is definately James best bet.

However some people are rebuilding one good set out of a couple.

Bernard (who will do the certification) is an OMVL installer and he lives about 4 miles from where I work, there is another installer north of Worcester as well but he doesn't CIH.

Anyway I need James to say what he wants to do next, but it looks like a recon injector assembly is required - but then that is a lot less than a new full kit.

My previous and my DIY are currently looking at two year payback and I reckon by Christmas I will be ahead. Currently savings are about £20 higher than the loan repayments, but I have had savings as big as £200 in one month (last August with two holidays)
Title: Re: Official LPG conversion thread + Pics
Post by: Ken T on 20 February 2007, 13:47:50
Sorry it was just an idea. I know some injectors are individual items that have the main gas feed in one side and out the other to the next injector. Why not fit one injector to the gas feed, and plumb from its next injector outlet into the OMVL rail ?. You would have to blank off the leaking injector in the rail, but that would give you 4 injectors. A bit daft I know, but it should work, shouldn't it ? Perhaps from what you are saying the Romano's are different, its sounds like they are fed from a distributor manifold, so have only one inlet, so that wouldn't work unless you did some extra plumbing, maybe a bit OTT. Someone's selling a set on Fleebay, http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=005&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=150091791133&rd=1&rd=1, but they are untested, and I don't know the spec. :)
Title: Re: Official LPG conversion thread + Pics
Post by: Martin_1962 on 20 February 2007, 14:15:38
No problem

The Romano are quite large and seperate, they are supposed to be pretty reliable unless liquid gas gets into them.

The OMVL (as Marks Rover) is one block - easier to mount, and fit but if one goes the whole unit goes.
Title: Re: Official LPG conversion thread + Pics
Post by: Martin_1962 on 20 February 2007, 18:46:33
James - have you heard from FES yet?

This may be a quicker route than Bernard
Title: Re: Official LPG conversion thread + Pics
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 21 February 2007, 16:19:02
What's the estimated cost of getting Bernard to look at it? I'll take whichever route you think is best!
Title: Re: Official LPG conversion thread + Pics
Post by: Martin_1962 on 21 February 2007, 16:51:12
Since it appears FES are either too expensive or not answered I will drop them off if you post them, I will leave your mobile number on the package and see what happens.

Worst case will be a reconditioned set for not sure how much, but Bernard is semi retired and does like helping.

He will charge if needed but will be reasonable
Title: Re: Official LPG conversion thread + Pics
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 21 February 2007, 18:56:41
Quote
Since it appears FES are either too expensive or not answered I will drop them off if you post them, I will leave your mobile number on the package and see what happens.

Worst case will be a reconditioned set for not sure how much, but Bernard is semi retired and does like helping.

He will charge if needed but will be reasonable

Sounds like a plan, as long as we're not talking more than three figures then I can do that now.. I've got your address, so I shall send them over.. won't be until after the weekend, as I'm not home where the kit is at the moment..

Cheers Martin :)
Title: Re: Official LPG conversion thread + Pics
Post by: Martin_1962 on 21 February 2007, 20:12:51
OK send to me ASAP

Worst case would be around £120 I am guessing but that would be for recon. which are as new, (shells reused).

I will explain cash flow issue to Bernard and see where we go
Title: Re: Official LPG conversion thread + Pics
Post by: Martin_1962 on 21 February 2007, 20:15:17
The O rings tend to go in them, and they are not available but Bernard has a few scrap ones and may be able to cobble something together
Title: Re: Official LPG conversion thread + Pics
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 21 February 2007, 20:53:51
Quote
The O rings tend to go in them, and they are not available but Bernard has a few scrap ones and may be able to cobble something together

Good man!! I'll get them to you, asap.

Selling a few bits of the V6 will be a good start....
Title: Re: Official LPG conversion thread + Pics
Post by: TheBoy on 21 February 2007, 21:01:07
Off topic replies have been moved to [link=http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1172091668]This Thread[/link]
Title: Re: Official LPG conversion thread + Pics
Post by: Martin_1962 on 23 February 2007, 14:50:48
Any idea when they will be posted?
Title: Re: Official LPG conversion thread + Pics
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 23 February 2007, 19:19:09
Quote
Any idea when they will be posted?
Monday :)
Title: Re: Official LPG conversion thread + Pics
Post by: Martin_1962 on 27 February 2007, 18:58:38
Have you posted them yet? [smiley=vrolijk_1.gif] [smiley=vrolijk_26.gif]
Title: Re: Official LPG conversion thread + Pics
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 28 February 2007, 23:39:31
I have just subscribed to the Yahoo group, membership is pending approval.

Off to Tesco in my lunch (about 3am!) to get some decent packing stuff to post injectors

Money is really tight at the mo so if it's going to be expensive it may have to wait a couple of weeks :(
Title: Re: Official LPG conversion thread + Pics
Post by: Martin_1962 on 01 March 2007, 09:57:37
Quote
I have just subscribed to the Yahoo group, membership is pending approval.

Off to Tesco in my lunch (about 3am!) to get some decent packing stuff to post injectors

Money is really tight at the mo so if it's going to be expensive it may have to wait a couple of weeks :(

Can but wait and see, in the end even getting recon injectors will pay for themselves in two months
Title: Re: Official LPG conversion thread + Pics
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 02 March 2007, 02:37:42
Also Martin, the clear plastic bit that sits on top of the LPG tank where the gas pipes go in.. has god a chunk broken off. Is this any reason for concern, or reduce the chances of gaining certification?
Title: Re: Official LPG conversion thread + Pics
Post by: Martin_1962 on 02 March 2007, 09:51:46
What make is the tank valve?

Just need a new cover, they are not expensive.

Failing that glue and repair but you need it sealed for safety reasons
Title: Re: Official LPG conversion thread + Pics
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 02 March 2007, 16:58:21
Quote
What make is the tank valve?

Just need a new cover, they are not expensive.

Failing that glue and repair but you need it sealed for safety reasons

It's knackered... split to bits....

The cover has got OMVL written on it..
Title: Re: Official LPG conversion thread + Pics
Post by: Martin_1962 on 02 March 2007, 18:59:53
Ask the importers for a new cover
Title: Re: Official LPG conversion thread + Pics
Post by: Martin_1962 on 07 March 2007, 10:05:55
Still no injectors James :(
Title: Re: Official LPG conversion thread + Pics
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 08 March 2007, 06:44:01
Martin, I'm sorry mate. Girlfriend didn't post them in the end, and Last night is the first time I got down to her. I haven't intentionally ignored your message, it's just been a really hectic time for me...

Hopefully things will start to quieten down (as the weather improves!!) for the conversion..

I also emailed FES about a tank cover, I think they must have forgotton to respond.. I'll chase that up.
Title: Re: Official LPG conversion thread + Pics
Post by: Martin_1962 on 08 March 2007, 11:38:54
OK - I'll pass them on when they arrive
Title: Re: Official LPG conversion thread + Pics
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 08 March 2007, 13:28:02
Other than that, I'm also desperately trying to get the car running right, and at the right economy (eg not 21mpg!) before we think about putting the LPG components on it... I'm sure you'll agree the car needs to be running fine before it's LPG'd...

New stat is going on at lunchtime.. the engine is not reaching temp. Even after a 14 mile drive to work this morning, It was only half way up to 90... and the heater was only blowing luke warm...

Hence the ECU think's it is cold, and is making the mixture too rich.

At an educated guess that is largely based on Mark's posts. I flushed it once, but if the stat doesn't fix, I'll flush again, really thoroughly...
Title: Re: Official LPG conversion thread + Pics
Post by: Martin_1962 on 08 March 2007, 16:26:31
I think you will have to wait a little while for the injectors - not an instant repair - add on the two day delay each end for pick up and posting I reckon you would be around a week without them.

I used to get average 22 - 25 from a 2.0 auto commuting but I might be harder driving but mine was always warm.

On long runs low 30s

Title: Re: Official LPG conversion thread + Pics
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 08 March 2007, 17:39:23
Think I've found a significant cause of low MPG, especially when cold... see "thermostat problem" in general help ;D
Title: Re: Official LPG conversion thread + Pics
Post by: Martin_1962 on 08 March 2007, 19:44:31
Get those injectors posted then!!!!
Title: Re: Official LPG conversion thread + Pics
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 16 March 2007, 12:37:42
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Title: Re: Official LPG conversion thread + Pics
Post by: TheBoy on 16 March 2007, 14:50:49
Quote
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Yahoo! Groups Notification <notify@yahoogroups.com>
Date: 16 Mar 2007 11:32:42 -0000
Subject: Request to join lp-gas denied
To:


Hello,

Your request to join the lp-gas group was not approved.
Your membership was automatically rejected because the moderator didn't
approve it within 14 days. We do this to provide a high quality
of service for our users.

If you want, you may attempt to join this group again.

You may find other groups to join by searching or browsing the
Groups directory:
http://groups.yahoo.com

If you would like to create your own group, please visit:
http://groups.yahoo.com/start

Thank you for choosing Yahoo! Groups.


Regards,

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Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
There are no moderators left. They are all over here ;D
Title: Re: Official LPG conversion thread + Pics
Post by: Martin_1962 on 16 March 2007, 14:59:22
Shall I ask there why it timed out?
Title: Re: Official LPG conversion thread + Pics
Post by: TheBoy on 16 March 2007, 16:14:08
Off topic replies have been moved to [link=http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1174061649]This Thread[/link]