Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: Lizzie_Zoom on 10 December 2009, 17:48:09
-
Watched a fascinating documentary last night on BBC2 by Sir David Attenborough on the subject of how many people can the Earth sustain.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00pdjmk/Horizon_20092010_How_Many_People_Can_Live_on_Planet_Earth/
Roughly the basic facts are that according to UN figures we are at 6.8 billion today, and in about 4 months time it will hit 7 billion. By 2050 this will reach probably 9 billion.
Working on the basis of a calculation that each person ideally requires 2 hecters of land production to sustain them, the World can cope with about 11 billion. But based on what the average American uses, 9 hecters, and Britain, 5 hecters, the Earth will only sustain between1.5 to 2.5 billion long term. Using the hecters that Indians use the limit is around 15 billion.
Thomas Malthus in 1798, amid a growing population boom, expressed the opinion that this would lead eventually to the outstripping of food production and future famines. Fortunately agricultural practices have kept advancing to produce enough food for the world's expanding population - until apparently now. With water and oil supplies deminishing to such an extent that creating food in the quantities required, let alone producing the surpluses witnessed to recently, it is now becoming doubtful the Earth can provide long term for the human race, and come 2050 things will be decidely desperate!
An added fact was that India will have a population of 1.5 billion, outstripping China's then 1.4 billion.
With our climate under going some form of change, these facts make for some further serious thought. Maybe the only thing to say, and hope for, is GOD HELP US!! Especially our children, grand children, and great grand children :( :( :(
-
next step, we will start to kill each other to survive ;D
seriously population control sooner or later must be done..and I think some rather idiots (guess who) dont help the situation by advising 3 children for every family >:( >:(
-
Watched a fascinating documentary last night on BBC2 by Sir David Attenborough on the subject of how many people can the Earth sustain.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00pdjmk/Horizon_20092010_How_Many_People_Can_Live_on_Planet_Earth/
Roughly the basic facts are that according to UN figures we are at 6.8 billion today, and in about 4 months time it will hit 7 billion. By 2050 this will reach probably 9 billion.
Working on the basis of a calculation that each person ideally requires 2 hecters of land production to sustain them, the World can cope with about 11 billion. But based on what the average American uses, 9 hecters, and Britain, 5 hecters, the Earth will only sustain between1.5 to 2.5 billion long term. Using the hecters that Indians use the limit is around 15 billion.
Thomas Malthus in 1798, amid a growing population boom, expressed the opinion that this would lead eventually to the outstripping of food production and future famines. Fortunately agricultural practices have kept advancing to produce enough food for the world's expanding population - until apparently now. With water and oil supplies deminishing to such an extent that creating food in the quantities required, let alone producing the surpluses witnessed to recently, it is now becoming doubtful the Earth can provide long term for the human race, and come 2050 things will be decidely desperate!
An added fact was that India will have a population of 1.5 billion, outstripping China's then 1.4 billion.
With our climate under going some form of change, these facts make for some further serious thought. Maybe the only thing to say, and hope for, is GOD HELP US!! Especially our children, grand children, and great grand children :( :( :(
So, if I was a 'one in a million kind of guy' and I lived in China they'd be 1400 more just like me? ;)
-
next step, we will start to kill each other to survive ;D
seriously population control sooner or later must be done..and I think some rather idiots (guess who) dont help the situation by advising 3 children for every family >:( >:(
Very true Cem, and we need to perhaps (very controversially!!) to limit all couples to 1 child as the Chinese do.
-
Watched a fascinating documentary last night on BBC2 by Sir David Attenborough on the subject of how many people can the Earth sustain.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00pdjmk/Horizon_20092010_How_Many_People_Can_Live_on_Planet_Earth/
Roughly the basic facts are that according to UN figures we are at 6.8 billion today, and in about 4 months time it will hit 7 billion. By 2050 this will reach probably 9 billion.
Working on the basis of a calculation that each person ideally requires 2 hecters of land production to sustain them, the World can cope with about 11 billion. But based on what the average American uses, 9 hecters, and Britain, 5 hecters, the Earth will only sustain between1.5 to 2.5 billion long term. Using the hecters that Indians use the limit is around 15 billion.
Thomas Malthus in 1798, amid a growing population boom, expressed the opinion that this would lead eventually to the outstripping of food production and future famines. Fortunately agricultural practices have kept advancing to produce enough food for the world's expanding population - until apparently now. With water and oil supplies deminishing to such an extent that creating food in the quantities required, let alone producing the surpluses witnessed to recently, it is now becoming doubtful the Earth can provide long term for the human race, and come 2050 things will be decidely desperate!
An added fact was that India will have a population of 1.5 billion, outstripping China's then 1.4 billion.
With our climate under going some form of change, these facts make for some further serious thought. Maybe the only thing to say, and hope for, is GOD HELP US!! Especially our children, grand children, and great grand children :( :( :(
So, if I was a 'one in a million kind of guy' and I lived in China they'd be 14000 more just like me? ;)
ermm.. must be 1400..
-
next step, we will start to kill each other to survive ;D
seriously population control sooner or later must be done..and I think some rather idiots (guess who) dont help the situation by advising 3 children for every family >:( >:(
Very true Cem, and we need to perhaps (very controversially!!) to limit all couples to 1 child as the Chinese do.
Just as well, it seems !
-
next step, we will start to kill each other to survive ;D
seriously population control sooner or later must be done..and I think some rather idiots (guess who) dont help the situation by advising 3 children for every family >:( >:(
Very true Cem, and we need to perhaps (very controversially!!) to limit all couples to 1 child as the Chinese do.
agreed Lizzie.. With todays economic conditions its not easy to grow even 1 children..at least here..
and I'm afraid in the future we will be exposed to very strict limitations :(
-
or may be politicians have good solutions in mind : like nuclear wars ;D ;D
-
You can't limit children
I like children---but I couldn't eat a whole one ;D
-
next step, we will start to kill each other to survive ;D
seriously population control sooner or later must be done..and I think some rather idiots (guess who) dont help the situation by advising 3 children for every family >:( >:(
Very true Cem, and we need to perhaps (very controversially!!) to limit all couples to 1 child as the Chinese do.
Just as well, it seems !
i think 2 children is enough, if you want more then you pay for there upkeep, why should my taxes go towards the upkeep for large families who cant afford to have finance them thereselves. especially the lazy bstrds that have about 8 kids and the father will never work.
-
and another subject also comes to mind ..
And in my opinion couples must proove their proficiency to be a parent economically, physically and psychologically (which was necessary for a long time for a healthy society :-/ :-/ :-/ but who cares :( :()
-
and another subject also comes to mind ..
And in my opinion couples must proove their proficiency to be a parent economically, physically and psychologically (which was necessary for a long time for a healthy society :-/ :-/ :-/ but who cares :( :()
I kind of want to agree but it's getting a bit eugenic. :-/
But obviously there is a limit to the sustainability of a massive population with a finite amount of resources.
-
'Twas indeed a potent reminder of the fragile state of the earth : people v resources. As usual it was a little thin on actual info, made instead to hold the average attention span of Joe Public.
For me the other salient facts were:
- In 3rd world countries, where education was compulsory for both boys and girls, the birth rate has dropped.
- Issues with the amount of water actually available. 1 billion people do not have access to safe drinking water. Living in a hot dry country I for one can appreciate that problem.
- The inescapable fact that population is going to continue to rise due to longer life expectancy due to medical science even if the rest of the world follows Chinas quite draconian limits on family size. Too many people see it as their "God given right" to have a family of whatever size they choose".
The most sinister revelation to me was that the more advanced countries (China included) are wholesale buying up large chunks of poor countries, like those in Africa, and setting up to produce food (using irrigation - local water) to feed people back home. Meanwhile the locals continue to starve and have less land each for their subsistence farming.
Oh dear.
Varche
-
il help out by eatin folk,i love chinese :)
-
and another subject also comes to mind ..
And in my opinion couples must proove their proficiency to be a parent economically, physically and psychologically (which was necessary for a long time for a healthy society :-/ :-/ :-/ but who cares :( :()
I kind of want to agree but it's getting a bit eugenic. :-/
But obviously there is a limit to the sustainability of a massive population with a finite amount of resources.
yep.. a bit eugenic.. :( but I dont see any reason to pass a deadly cancer or other sickness to your children and suffers same like you.. :'(
-
If the figures are based on info supplied by the U.N I wouldnt take any notice if them ;)
If the choice was between the Human race eventually starving itself by choosing to have more children than it can sustain or a global government legislating on how many (if any)offspring each person is allowed to produce,I would rather die a hungry but free man.
-
If the figures are based on info supplied by the U.N I wouldnt take any notice if them ;)
If the choice was between the Human race eventually starving itself by choosing to have more children than it can sustain or a global government legislating on how many (if any)offspring each person is allowed to produce,I would rather die a hungry but free man.
if the others dont eat you ;D :y
-
'Twas indeed a potent reminder of the fragile state of the earth : people v resources. As usual it was a little thin on actual info, made instead to hold the average attention span of Joe Public.
For me the other salient facts were:
- In 3rd world countries, where education was compulsory for both boys and girls, the birth rate has dropped.
- Issues with the amount of water actually available. 1 billion people do not have access to safe drinking water. Living in a hot dry country I for one can appreciate that problem.
- The inescapable fact that population is going to continue to rise due to longer life expectancy due to medical science even if the rest of the world follows Chinas quite draconian limits on family size. Too many people see it as their "God given right" to have a family of whatever size they choose".
The most sinister revelation to me was that the more advanced countries (China included) are wholesale buying up large chunks of poor countries, like those in Africa, and setting up to produce food (using irrigation - local water) to feed people back home. Meanwhile the locals continue to starve and have less land each for their subsistence farming.
Oh dear.
Varche
Yes Varche many good points highlighted, but the one on buying up agricultural land shocked me as well; Britain buying land for OUR food production in Ethopia!!! :o :o :o :o It seems only like yesterday we were giving them aid becuase they had a shortage of food and were starving!
-
If the figures are based on info supplied by the U.N I wouldnt take any notice if them ;)
If the choice was between the Human race eventually starving itself by choosing to have more children than it can sustain or a global government legislating on how many (if any)offspring each person is allowed to produce,I would rather die a hungry but free man.
Would you still say that if you swapped lives with someone from Africa and they lived in the South East? No, didn't think so. The Chinese allowed one child per couple. Not such a bad deal really.
-
really bad picture sorry but I think shows what will happen..
a polar bear eating the self children :'(
[size=12]NWS[/size]
http://fotograf.gazetevatan.com/fotogaleri/resim.asp?kat=12488&page_number=2
-
really bad picture sorry but I think shows what will happen..
a polar bear eating the self children :'(
http://fotograf.gazetevatan.com/fotogaleri/resim.asp?kat=12488&page_number=2
A fascinating picture Cem, but I think due to the nature of it and this could upset some on here, including members children, I would modify it with a big [size=24]"NWS"[/size]
;) ;) ;)
-
really bad picture sorry but I think shows what will happen..
a polar bear eating the self children :'(
http://fotograf.gazetevatan.com/fotogaleri/resim.asp?kat=12488&page_number=2
A fascinating picture Cem, but I think due to the nature of it and this could upset some on here, including members children, I would modify it with a big [size=24]"NWS"[/size]
;) ;) ;)
ok..
-
Thanks Cem :y :y :y :-* :-*
-
Thanks Cem :y :y :y :-* :-*
:y :y
-
dont know about the statistics, but many people here in my country suffering economical problems have a bad nutrition and end up in hospitals and even they are not aware of that..
I think every human deserve to have a healthy life.. :(
-
I brought this up a while ago & got slated for it.
Well you can't blame me for increasing the populous. No little Pete's anywhere :y
-
I brought this up a while ago & got slated for it.
Well you can't blame me for increasing the populous. No little Pete's anywhere :y
and no little cems ;D :y
-
I brought this up a while ago & got slated for it.
Well you can't blame me for increasing the populous. No little Pete's anywhere :y
and no little cems ;D :y
:y :y Though you must have LOTS of practice ;)
-
I brought this up a while ago & got slated for it.
Well you can't blame me for increasing the populous. No little Pete's anywhere :y
and no little cems ;D :y
:y :y Though you must have LOTS of practice ;)
;D ;D yep .. cant pass that practice level.. ;D :y
seriously , if you are educated to be an idealist ,with serious parents who dont accept mistakes then you want eveything to be at least good for your children ..
and I fail at the beginning, my health not good for making children, I'm not patient enough and a bit old :(
-
really bad picture sorry but I think shows what will happen..
a polar bear eating the self children :'(
[size=12]NWS[/size]
http://fotograf.gazetevatan.com/fotogaleri/resim.asp?kat=12488&page_number=2
This picture is just capturing what is normal behaviour in the animal world.Many species of male animals will kill cubs for no other reason than the continued progression of their own genes without competition from others, it doesn't necessarily indicate canabalistic behaviour through food shortage.
Anybody want to suggest what human tastes like----I'm gonna say chicken!!!! :y
-
really bad picture sorry but I think shows what will happen..
a polar bear eating the self children :'(
[size=12]NWS[/size]
http://fotograf.gazetevatan.com/fotogaleri/resim.asp?kat=12488&page_number=2
This picture is just capturing what is normal behaviour in the animal world.Many species of male animals will kill cubs for no other reason than the continued progression of their own genes without competition from others, it doesn't necessarily indicate canabalistic behaviour through food shortage.
Anybody want to suggest what human tastes like----I'm gonna say chicken!!!! :y
on cats (small and big) population yes.. but not common in bears as far as I know..
-
really bad picture sorry but I think shows what will happen..
a polar bear eating the self children :'(
[size=12]NWS[/size]
http://fotograf.gazetevatan.com/fotogaleri/resim.asp?kat=12488&page_number=2
This picture is just capturing what is normal behaviour in the animal world.Many species of male animals will kill cubs for no other reason than the continued progression of their own genes without competition from others, it doesn't necessarily indicate canabalistic behaviour through food shortage.
Anybody want to suggest what human tastes like----I'm gonna say chicken!!!! :y
on cats (small and big) population yes.. but not common in bears as far as I know..
It does happen in bears, an increase in this behaviour would be indicative of some external stress though.
-
Hmmmm.... lets get this into perspective....... the worlds population standing shoulder to shoulder would fit into Isle of man/Isle of white....... so methinks there's plenty of room for expansion.
-
May be being a little simplistic but;
Seems to me that obesity would no longer be a problem, slimmer oof members... :D
How much food is wasted every day in this country alone? :-[
And, we can't have it both ways, we can't have water shortages and rising sea level because the ice caps are allegedly melting..... ::) ::)
-
May be being a little simplistic but;
Seems to me that obesity would no longer be a problem, slimmer oof members... :D
How much food is wasted every day in this country alone? :-[
And, we can't have it both ways, we can't have water shortages and rising sea level because the ice caps are allegedly melting..... ::) ::)
[/color]
Wrong kind of water. It just becomes sea water when it melts. Only wealthy or desperate countries can afford the cost of making drinking water out of sea water via de salination plants. None of the melted ice caps makes its way directly into the water table of countries like Spain and the like.
-
Hmmmm.... lets get this into perspective....... the worlds population standing shoulder to shoulder would fit into Isle of man/Isle of white....... so methinks there's plenty of room for expansion.
that was maybe the case when i was at school - now you'd struggle to squeeze half the world onto the Isle of Wight - besides thats not the point - the point is how do we feed everyone? answer? we can't possibly :(
-
I always think these throw away comments about everyone could fit in Manhattan, Texas, Isle of White are meaningless. Most people in England would consider they are already too cramped.
How to feed everyone?
- Stem the rampant world population growth (education and free contraception)
- Reduce the amount of meat eaten versus veg. meat uses a phenominal amount of resources to produce. I recall the programme said a beefburger used 6000 litres of water. (put in context a civilised family in Spain might use that in TWO weeks.)
So maybe the answer is a tax on meat! A Sunday Roast for 4 for £50?! Won't be long.
Varche
-
Now where have I heard all this before?
Ah, yes! Earth Day 1970.
“Population will inevitably and completely outstrip whatever small increases in food supplies we make. The death rate will increase until at least 100-200 million people per year will be starving to death during the next ten years.”
Paul Ehrlich, Stanford University biologist
“It is already too late to avoid mass starvation.”
Denis Hayes, chief organizer for Earth Day
“Demographers agree almost unanimously on the following grim timetable: by 1975 widespread famines will begin in India; these will spread by 1990 to include all of India, Pakistan, China and the Near East, Africa. By the year 2000, or conceivably sooner, South and Central America will exist under famine conditions….By the year 2000, thirty years from now, the entire world, with the exception of Western Europe, North America, and Australia, will be in famine.”
Peter Gunter, professor, North Texas State University
“Dr. S. Dillon Ripley, secretary of the Smithsonian Institute, believes that in 25 years, somewhere between 75 and 80 percent of all the species of living animals will be extinct.”
Sen. Gaylord Nelson
Funny that the mainstream media never ever push anything that isn't alarmist these days. Perhaps they like frightening the kids. :(
-
I always think these throw away comments about everyone could fit in Manhattan, Texas, Isle of White are meaningless. Most people in England would consider they are already too cramped.
How to feed everyone?
- Stem the rampant world population growth (education and free contraception)
- Reduce the amount of meat eaten versus veg. meat uses a phenominal amount of resources to produce. I recall the programme said a beefburger used 6000 litres of water. (put in context a civilised family in Spain might use that in TWO weeks.)
So maybe the answer is a tax on meat! A Sunday Roast for 4 for £50?! Won't be long.
Varche
Bargain! Save me cooking.
-
Now where have I heard all this before?
Ah, yes! Earth Day 1970.
“Population will inevitably and completely outstrip whatever small increases in food supplies we make. The death rate will increase until at least 100-200 million people per year will be starving to death during the next ten years.”
Paul Ehrlich, Stanford University biologist
“It is already too late to avoid mass starvation.”
Denis Hayes, chief organizer for Earth Day
“Demographers agree almost unanimously on the following grim timetable: by 1975 widespread famines will begin in India; these will spread by 1990 to include all of India, Pakistan, China and the Near East, Africa. By the year 2000, or conceivably sooner, South and Central America will exist under famine conditions….By the year 2000, thirty years from now, the entire world, with the exception of Western Europe, North America, and Australia, will be in famine.”
Peter Gunter, professor, North Texas State University
“Dr. S. Dillon Ripley, secretary of the Smithsonian Institute, believes that in 25 years, somewhere between 75 and 80 percent of all the species of living animals will be extinct.”
Sen. Gaylord Nelson
Funny that the mainstream media never ever push anything that isn't alarmist these days. Perhaps they like frightening the kids. :(
No Nick, as I stated, it was first in 1798! ;)
The point is that we ARE reaching a maximum level of food production from this planet earth over the next few decades due to a growing shortage of water to grow the crops and oil to help in the production and transportation of all food resouces. :( :(
-
Now where have I heard all this before?
Ah, yes! Earth Day 1970.
“Population will inevitably and completely outstrip whatever small increases in food supplies we make. The death rate will increase until at least 100-200 million people per year will be starving to death during the next ten years.”
Paul Ehrlich, Stanford University biologist
“It is already too late to avoid mass starvation.”
Denis Hayes, chief organizer for Earth Day
“Demographers agree almost unanimously on the following grim timetable: by 1975 widespread famines will begin in India; these will spread by 1990 to include all of India, Pakistan, China and the Near East, Africa. By the year 2000, or conceivably sooner, South and Central America will exist under famine conditions….By the year 2000, thirty years from now, the entire world, with the exception of Western Europe, North America, and Australia, will be in famine.”
Peter Gunter, professor, North Texas State University
“Dr. S. Dillon Ripley, secretary of the Smithsonian Institute, believes that in 25 years, somewhere between 75 and 80 percent of all the species of living animals will be extinct.”
Sen. Gaylord Nelson
Funny that the mainstream media never ever push anything that isn't alarmist these days. Perhaps they like frightening the kids. :(
No Nick, as I stated, it was first in 1798! ;)
The point is that we ARE reaching a maximum level of food production from this planet earth over the next few decades due to a growing shortage of water to grow the crops and oil to help in the production and transportation of all food resouces. :( :(
Try 1729 - I'm sure you've come across this (http://art-bin.com/art/omodest.html) before!
And as regards the polar bear picture, I think it was in The Times earlier this week, so I'm inclined to think the NWS was a bit OTT.
And the Harry Harrison's Make Room, Make Room is a fascinating SF novel on this topic. It was filmed as Soylent Green, with Charlton Heston and Edward G. Robinson (his last film). Bring on those Public Euthanasia Facilities, folks! Get rid of all the crumblies who've outlived their usefulness. :) :) :)
-
Now where have I heard all this before?
Ah, yes! Earth Day 1970.
“Population will inevitably and completely outstrip whatever small increases in food supplies we make. The death rate will increase until at least 100-200 million people per year will be starving to death during the next ten years.”
Paul Ehrlich, Stanford University biologist
“It is already too late to avoid mass starvation.”
Denis Hayes, chief organizer for Earth Day
“Demographers agree almost unanimously on the following grim timetable: by 1975 widespread famines will begin in India; these will spread by 1990 to include all of India, Pakistan, China and the Near East, Africa. By the year 2000, or conceivably sooner, South and Central America will exist under famine conditions….By the year 2000, thirty years from now, the entire world, with the exception of Western Europe, North America, and Australia, will be in famine.”
Peter Gunter, professor, North Texas State University
“Dr. S. Dillon Ripley, secretary of the Smithsonian Institute, believes that in 25 years, somewhere between 75 and 80 percent of all the species of living animals will be extinct.”
Sen. Gaylord Nelson
Funny that the mainstream media never ever push anything that isn't alarmist these days. Perhaps they like frightening the kids. :(
No Nick, as I stated, it was first in 1798! ;)
The point is that we ARE reaching a maximum level of food production from this planet earth over the next few decades due to a growing shortage of water to grow the crops and oil to help in the production and transportation of all food resouces. :( :(
Try 1729 - I'm sure you've come across this (http://art-bin.com/art/omodest.html) before!
And as regards the polar bear picture, I think it was in The Times earlier this week, so I'm inclined to think the NWS was a bit OTT.
And the Harry Harrison's Make Room, Make Room is a fascinating SF novel on this topic. It was filmed as Soylent Green, with Charlton Heston and Edward G. Robinson (his last film). Bring on those Public Euthanasia Facilities, folks! Get rid of all the crumblies who've outlived their usefulness. :) :) :)
Jonathan Swift was of course Jereboam explaining a solution to the Irish problem in a way that even the Nazis didn't think of, and certainly was far removed from the theories of Thomas Malthus in 1798!! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;) ;)
As for the polar bear picture the NWS was for young children and possibily certain adults who could be upset by the image, and are not Times readers! :D :D :D ;) ;)
-
I always think these throw away comments about everyone could fit in Manhattan, Texas, Isle of White are meaningless. Most people in England would consider they are already too cramped.
How to feed everyone?
- Stem the rampant world population growth (education and free contraception)
- Reduce the amount of meat eaten versus veg. meat uses a phenominal amount of resources to produce. I recall the programme said a beefburger used 6000 litres of water. (put in context a civilised family in Spain might use that in TWO weeks.)
So maybe the answer is a tax on meat! A Sunday Roast for 4 for £50?! Won't be long.
Varche
You'll need to do something about the irresponsibility of Catholicism as well
-
I always think these throw away comments about everyone could fit in Manhattan, Texas, Isle of White are meaningless. Most people in England would consider they are already too cramped.
How to feed everyone?
- Stem the rampant world population growth (education and free contraception)
- Reduce the amount of meat eaten versus veg. meat uses a phenominal amount of resources to produce. I recall the programme said a beefburger used 6000 litres of water. (put in context a civilised family in Spain might use that in TWO weeks.)
So maybe the answer is a tax on meat! A Sunday Roast for 4 for £50?! Won't be long.
Varche
You'll need to do something about the irresponsibility of Catholicism as well
Well, if you stop them having it off with choirboys, they're bound to try women sooner or later.
-
I always think these throw away comments about everyone could fit in Manhattan, Texas, Isle of White are meaningless. Most people in England would consider they are already too cramped.
How to feed everyone?
- Stem the rampant world population growth (education and free contraception)
- Reduce the amount of meat eaten versus veg. meat uses a phenominal amount of resources to produce. I recall the programme said a beefburger used 6000 litres of water. (put in context a civilised family in Spain might use that in TWO weeks.)
So maybe the answer is a tax on meat! A Sunday Roast for 4 for £50?! Won't be long.
Varche
You'll need to do something about the irresponsibility of Catholicism as well
Well, if you stop them having it off with choirboys, they're bound to try women sooner or later.
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D you are in top form tonight STMO!! ;D ;D ;D ;) ;)