Omega Owners Forum

Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: Mr Skrunts on 23 February 2010, 01:38:17

Title: Jump Starting.
Post by: Mr Skrunts on 23 February 2010, 01:38:17
My car is often parked up for weeks on and and suffer a flat bettery every time.  This also means dragging my mate out to climb through the boot and unlock the car, have tried the door locks but allways seem to have a bad time with the doors, especially last time it seems the deadlock would not shift.

I am considering fitting some of the following kit.  But not sure where it would be best fitted.

Also bear in mind I have 2 migs that both have newish batterys on that are both flat most of the ime.  The ability to just plug the 2 cars together after starting one would make my fife so mush easier.

Any suggestions on the best place to fit one on the car, plus do I need the 50 amp or the 175 amp kit.

TIA.   :y

http://www.vehicle-wiring-products.eu/VWP-onlinestore/battconns/battconn.php#booster
Title: Re: Jump Starting.
Post by: Auto Addict on 23 February 2010, 05:19:50
It's a similar sort of arrangement that the AA/RAC/GF etc. use.

A better idea, depending how close you're car is to an electrical supply, would be to get something like a CTek charger, that you could leave on charge all the time.

A CTek is small enough to leave under the bonnet, with the bonnet closed.
Title: Re: Jump Starting.
Post by: Plomien on 23 February 2010, 06:29:26
what about this?
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/12v-Solar-Panel-Battery-Trickle-Charger-caravan-car-_W0QQitemZ260476312443QQcmdZViewItem?rvr_id=&rvr_id=&cguid=d0b7325c1250a0aad2265396fc5e43db
it will at least provide enough to get the doors open
Title: Re: Jump Starting.
Post by: Hannah Judes Dad on 23 February 2010, 10:30:33
Quote
what about this?
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/12v-Solar-Panel-Battery-Trickle-Charger-caravan-car-_W0QQitemZ260476312443QQcmdZViewItem?rvr_id=&rvr_id=&cguid=d0b7325c1250a0aad2265396fc5e43db
it will at least provide enough to get the doors open

I use something similar to top up my leisure battery on my caravan when it is parked up as there isn't a power point near by.I have had the same battery for four years now and it still holds a charge.
Title: Re: Jump Starting.
Post by: Elite Pete on 23 February 2010, 10:34:51
A 10mm spanner works just as well.
Title: Re: Jump Starting.
Post by: Chris_H on 23 February 2010, 10:46:30
Quote
My car is often parked up for weeks on and and suffer a flat bettery every time.  This also means dragging my mate out to climb through the boot and unlock the car, have tried the door locks but allways seem to have a bad time with the doors, especially last time it seems the deadlock would not shift.

I am considering fitting some of the following kit.  But not sure where it would be best fitted.

Also bear in mind I have 2 migs that both have newish batterys on that are both flat most of the ime.  The ability to just plug the 2 cars together after starting one would make my fife so mush easier.

Any suggestions on the best place to fit one on the car, plus do I need the 50 amp or the 175 amp kit.

TIA.   :y

http://www.vehicle-wiring-products.eu/VWP-onlinestore/battconns/battconn.php#booster
Interesting one, as the boot is the only bit I can't get in via when the battery is flat!

If you reckon your batteries are good then they should not be losing their charge that easily.  Do you have leakage such as the powersounder fault?

Trickle-charger is the best option but some public have been electrocuted when they are left on the car.  There's just an outside chance that the solar panel might be the better option (for once!).
Title: Re: Jump Starting.
Post by: Kevin Wood on 23 February 2010, 11:09:09
Firstly, allowing the battery to go flat frequently will kill it. You need to avoid it going flat rather than tackle jump-starting it.

My vote is also for a trickle charger but it depends if you can get a supply to the car where it is parked. Consider fitting a connector to the exterior of the car so it's easy to hook up and you don't have to leave it with croc clips under the bonnet, etc.

Next best option would be to remove the battery and place it on a smart charger when you know the car is going to be laid up.

If it's not predictable, remove battery periodically (every 2 weeks) when laid-up and connect it to a smart charger such as a Ctek for 48 hours or so. Perhaps keep a spare battery so you can rotate them onto the charger every couple of weeks.

Failing all the above I suppose a solar panel might be better than nothing but it will require wiring directly to the battery through a suitably fused connection, rather than being plugged into the cigar lighter as these do not stay live.

I would be surprised if a solar panel would work well enough during the winter.

Kevin
Title: Re: Jump Starting.
Post by: Hannah Judes Dad on 23 February 2010, 11:13:54
The solar panel I use has croc clips at one end and a small plug at the other end with approx 6 feet of wire in between.As the plug end is quite small it may be possible to route it through to the cabin from under the bonnet.Just a thought.
Title: Re: Jump Starting.
Post by: Dishevelled Den on 23 February 2010, 11:18:39
I had this problem last year.  My Omega doesn't move very much and I suffered a spate of starting failures resulting in the need to have the battery charged up every four or five days or so.

I replaced the battery and all has been well since - except for the EML being on constantly (no effect on performance).  The car hadn't been used for months before I took it on a bit of a run earlier this month, it started first time and ran faultlessly - see reply number 6;


http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1266768799


As an aside, the local dealer wanted £75 plus VAT to re-set the light - he didn't get it, needless to say.
Title: Re: Jump Starting.
Post by: Mr Skrunts on 23 February 2010, 11:46:15
Quote
It's a similar sort of arrangement that the AA/RAC/GF etc. use.

A better idea, depending how close you're car is to an electrical supply, would be to get something like a CTek charger, that you could leave on charge all the time.

A CTek is small enough to leave under the bonnet, with the bonnet closed.

Love the idea, but am trying to to sort something so that I dont have to lift the bonnet.

Have considerered something similar though to keep a jump battery charged up.

Will give it more thought though.

Will be making a set of jump leads up with the Anderson connection on one end and clamps on the other.
Title: Re: Jump Starting.
Post by: Mr Skrunts on 23 February 2010, 11:51:03
Quote
what about this?
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/12v-Solar-Panel-Battery-Trickle-Charger-caravan-car-_W0QQitemZ260476312443QQcmdZViewItem?rvr_id=&rvr_id=&cguid=d0b7325c1250a0aad2265396fc5e43db
it will at least provide enough to get the doors open

Suggested this idea on the forum but it was mentioned that with the current climate in this country and the fact that the alrm on the Elite uses battery juice to keep active then they might not be good enough for the job.  :-/
Title: Re: Jump Starting.
Post by: Plomien on 23 February 2010, 12:47:30
Quote
Quote
what about this?
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/12v-Solar-Panel-Battery-Trickle-Charger-caravan-car-_W0QQitemZ260476312443QQcmdZViewItem?rvr_id=&rvr_id=&cguid=d0b7325c1250a0aad2265396fc5e43db
it will at least provide enough to get the doors open

Suggested this idea on the forum but it was mentioned that with the current climate in this country and the fact that the alrm on the Elite uses battery juice to keep active then they might not be good enough for the job.  :-/
It may not keep it fully charged but will slow down the process at least :y
Title: Re: Jump Starting.
Post by: Elite Pete on 23 February 2010, 12:49:56
Just charge the battery and leave the earth connection off until you need the car. It takes less than 2 minutes with a 10mm spanner to put it back on.
Title: Re: Jump Starting.
Post by: Mr Skrunts on 23 February 2010, 12:50:21
Is the rear ciggy lighter wired via the ignition or is it live all the time?
Title: Re: Jump Starting.
Post by: Auto Addict on 23 February 2010, 16:28:51
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Is the rear ciggy lighter wired via the ignition or is it live all the time?

It's wired to the ignition, on a timer.
Title: Re: Jump Starting.
Post by: Andy B on 23 February 2010, 16:35:06
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Quote
Is the rear ciggy lighter wired via the ignition or is it live all the time?

It's wired to the ignition, on a timer.

on a facelift, but prefacelift is just via the ignition  :y
Title: Re: Jump Starting.
Post by: Auto Addict on 23 February 2010, 16:39:01
Quote
Quote
Quote
Is the rear ciggy lighter wired via the ignition or is it live all the time?

It's wired to the ignition, on a timer.

on a facelift, but prefacelift is just via the ignition  :y

 :y
Title: Re: Jump Starting.
Post by: Mr Skrunts on 23 February 2010, 17:29:32
Quote
Quote
Is the rear ciggy lighter wired via the ignition or is it live all the time?

It's wired to the ignition, on a timer.

Cheers  :y
Title: Re: Jump Starting.
Post by: Mr Skrunts on 23 February 2010, 17:32:02
Quote
Quote
Quote
Is the rear ciggy lighter wired via the ignition or is it live all the time?

It's wired to the ignition, on a timer.

on a facelift, but prefacelift is just via the ignition  :y


Ahhhh,  have a solar that Ihave have never used, might stick it in the GLSas itdoes nothave an alarm.(Will trickle charge the battery first thoght) :y
Title: Re: Jump Starting.
Post by: jereboam on 24 February 2010, 21:11:38
Ho hum!  It's done it again.  Following the long debate on the flat battery problem (see http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1263728032/15) the car spent a week in the garage having everything tested - even the power sounder.  They couldn't find any problem, and it's been fine since - until today. 

They're coming to start it tomorrow, and then they're going to fit some sort of external input socket that's easier to get to for when this happens again.

So, two questions:

1 - does disconnecting the power sounder affect the insurance - not that anyone (other than a masochist)is likely to steal an 11 year old Omega?

2 - is it likely that a solar battery charger will actually be effective in keeping the battery topped up?

Actually, there's a third question - is a £12.98 solar battery charger from Ebay likely to be any use whatsoever, or should I look for a better one?

Er... that's four questions.  Don't mention the Spanish Inquisition... :(
Title: Re: Jump Starting.
Post by: Amigo on 24 February 2010, 21:15:12
Quote
Just charge the battery and leave the earth connection off until you need the car. It takes less than 2 minutes with a 10mm spanner to put it back on.
I was just thinking that! Saves money on silly kits, simples! 8-)
Title: Re: Jump Starting.
Post by: Del Boy on 24 February 2010, 21:30:58
Quote
what about this?
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/12v-Solar-Panel-Battery-Trickle-Charger-caravan-car-_W0QQitemZ260476312443QQcmdZViewItem?rvr_id=&rvr_id=&cguid=d0b7325c1250a0aad2265396fc5e43db
it will at least provide enough to get the doors open
My dad had one of these, worked a treat  :y
Title: Re: Jump Starting.
Post by: jereboam on 28 February 2010, 13:48:41
Last time the battery mysteriously died, the garage charged me £25 to get it started again, which seemed reasonable.  They haven't turned up to fix it this time. :(

I'm sure I could do it myself, but I don't have the kit I need.  I saw this in Halfords - anyone know if it's any good?
http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_storeId_10001_catalogId_10151_productId_241361_langId_-1_categoryId_165727

I think the jack and stands are rated at 2 tons - is that good enough for an Omega? 

TBH, I can't think I'd use it for much else - too old and fat and lazy to do much of my own servicing.  I'm probably going to get a solar charger as well.
Title: Re: Jump Starting.
Post by: r1 on 28 February 2010, 18:47:04
 I saw this in Halfords - anyone know if it's any good?
http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_storeId_10001_catalogId_10151_productId_241361_langId_-1_categoryId_165727

I think the jack and stands are rated at 2 tons - is that good enough for an Omega? 

dont know if its any good but theres more than 5 parts in it ,and would you use it all?
Title: Re: Jump Starting.
Post by: jereboam on 28 February 2010, 19:12:31
Quote
I saw this in Halfords - anyone know if it's any good?
http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_storeId_10001_catalogId_10151_productId_241361_langId_-1_categoryId_165727

I think the jack and stands are rated at 2 tons - is that good enough for an Omega? 

dont know if its any good but theres more than 5 parts in it ,and would you use it all?

Don't need the wheelbrace - I've got one.  Obviously need stands and jack.  Chocks will save me having to find some bricks or whatever.  The slider will help immensely - as I said earlier, I'm old and fat.  And today, with the rain, every bit of me aches, so the thought of wriggling under the car to get at the bits I need to find doesn't appeal greatly.

But the big question is whether or not a 2 ton rating is sufficient for an Omega.
Title: Re: Jump Starting.
Post by: Mr Skrunts on 28 February 2010, 19:23:53
How do the axle stands and jack work on jump starting a mig then.   ::)
Title: Re: Jump Starting.
Post by: jereboam on 28 February 2010, 19:39:41
Quote
How do the axle stands and jack work on jump starting a mig then.   ::)

Because the f*cking machine has locked me out and the only way to get in is to connect a battery to the alternator/starter to provide enough power to open the door to allow me to open the bonnet, turn the ignition on and jump start it in the normal way.

If you have a better suggestion, suggest it now, please. :) :) :) :(
Title: Re: Jump Starting.
Post by: Taxi_Driver on 28 February 2010, 20:38:51
I seem to remember AA had a similar problem with his 2.2, turned out to be a sticky relay staying on....the drain by the relay was flattening the battery.
However, iirc, it was the timer delay relay for the rear ciggie lighter, which only facelifts have.....so your prefacelift won't have this relay......but i guess it could be another relay staying on, that shoudnt be...  :-/ :-/

I dunno if you have tried measuring the current drain, with everything off (which was 1amp, iirc, when i read your other thread) and start pulling fuses and relays to see if the current drain drops significantly  :)
Title: Re: Jump Starting.
Post by: jereboam on 28 February 2010, 21:35:43
Quote
I seem to remember AA had a similar problem with his 2.2, turned out to be a sticky relay staying on....the drain by the relay was flattening the battery.
However, iirc, it was the timer delay relay for the rear ciggie lighter, which only facelifts have.....so your prefacelift won't have this relay......but i guess it could be another relay staying on, that shoudnt be...  :-/ :-/

I dunno if you have tried measuring the current drain, with everything off (which was 1amp, iirc, when i read your other thread) and start pulling fuses and relays to see if the current drain drops significantly  :)

It was in the garage for a week last month and they tried this.  They tried everything.  But it's not a permanent fault.  Two years ago, we went on holiday for nearly 3 weeks, and I was fully expecting to come back to a completely flat battery, but it started first time.  I can usually leave for the best part of a week without any problem.  But every now and again, it just goes.  It's not related to the mileage or the usage - it went within 36 hours of completing a 450 mile motorway trip on on one occasion. 

I won't take it to the dealer, because I can't afford it - I'm looking fo a cheap(ish) solution.
 
Title: Re: Jump Starting.
Post by: Mr Skrunts on 28 February 2010, 21:43:18
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Quote
How do the axle stands and jack work on jump starting a mig then.   ::)

Because the f*cking machine has locked me out and the only way to get in is to connect a battery to the alternator/starter to provide enough power to open the door to allow me to open the bonnet, turn the ignition on and jump start it in the normal way.

If you have a better suggestion, suggest it now, please. :) :) :) :(

Unlock the boot, shove the arm rest down, flick the back seat down and crawl through.  Best you unlock the boot and then get one of your neighbers kids to do the rest.

Have you got a tow bar fitted, if so does it have the second socket, if it has I do believe one of the pins should be live, that will give a connection for enough power to open the doors.
Title: Re: Jump Starting.
Post by: Taxi_Driver on 28 February 2010, 21:44:04
Quote
Quote
I seem to remember AA had a similar problem with his 2.2, turned out to be a sticky relay staying on....the drain by the relay was flattening the battery.
However, iirc, it was the timer delay relay for the rear ciggie lighter, which only facelifts have.....so your prefacelift won't have this relay......but i guess it could be another relay staying on, that shoudnt be...  :-/ :-/

I dunno if you have tried measuring the current drain, with everything off (which was 1amp, iirc, when i read your other thread) and start pulling fuses and relays to see if the current drain drops significantly  :)

It was in the garage for a week last month and they tried this.  They tried everything.  But it's not a permanent fault.  Two years ago, we went on holiday for nearly 3 weeks, and I was fully expecting to come back to a completely flat battery, but it started first time.  I can usually leave for the best part of a week without any problem.  But every now and again, it just goes.  It's not related to the mileage or the usage - it went within 36 hours of completing a 450 mile motorway trip on on one occasion. 

I won't take it to the dealer, because I can't afford it - I'm looking fo a cheap(ish) solution.
 

near impossible to fault find then.......sorry i carnt help further  :(
Title: Re: Jump Starting.
Post by: jereboam on 28 February 2010, 21:51:10
Quote
Quote
Quote
How do the axle stands and jack work on jump starting a mig then.   ::)

Because the f*cking machine has locked me out and the only way to get in is to connect a battery to the alternator/starter to provide enough power to open the door to allow me to open the bonnet, turn the ignition on and jump start it in the normal way.

If you have a better suggestion, suggest it now, please. :) :) :) :(

Unlock the boot, shove the arm rest down, flick the back seat down and crawl through.  Best you unlock the boot and then get one of your neighbers kids to do the rest.

Have you got a tow bar fitted, if so does it have the second socket, if it has I do believe one of the pins should be live, that will give a connection for enough power to open the doors.

Boot won't unlock in this state.  The late (and for me unlamented) Killerwatt took me to task for this and accused me of neglecting the lock maintenance, but it's nothing to do with that.  It's physically impossible to turn the key when this happens.   I could supply power through the boot light if I could open the lid, as I don't have a towing hook.  :( :( :(
Title: Re: Jump Starting.
Post by: jereboam on 28 February 2010, 21:53:28
Quote
Quote
Quote
I seem to remember AA had a similar problem with his 2.2, turned out to be a sticky relay staying on....the drain by the relay was flattening the battery.
However, iirc, it was the timer delay relay for the rear ciggie lighter, which only facelifts have.....so your prefacelift won't have this relay......but i guess it could be another relay staying on, that shoudnt be...  :-/ :-/

I dunno if you have tried measuring the current drain, with everything off (which was 1amp, iirc, when i read your other thread) and start pulling fuses and relays to see if the current drain drops significantly  :)

It was in the garage for a week last month and they tried this.  They tried everything.  But it's not a permanent fault.  Two years ago, we went on holiday for nearly 3 weeks, and I was fully expecting to come back to a completely flat battery, but it started first time.  I can usually leave for the best part of a week without any problem.  But every now and again, it just goes.  It's not related to the mileage or the usage - it went within 36 hours of completing a 450 mile motorway trip on on one occasion. 

I won't take it to the dealer, because I can't afford it - I'm looking fo a cheap(ish) solution.
 

near impossible to fault find then.......sorry i carnt help further  :(

Thanks anyway.  Believe me, if there was any alternative, I wouldn't be thinking about crawling under the car in February. :(