Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: Banjax on 23 July 2010, 09:23:24
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every neighbourhood has them, the small people who don't get worked up about poverty, homelessness, injustice, starvation, disease but jesus try and paint the lamposts the wrong colour and they'll want you hanging from them ;D
Cameron wants these NIMBY's to not only run schools, but now make decisions on town planning.....interesting choice that.........leave the big society (or BS for short) to be run by the people with enough money not to spend time earning it, now i don't know about you - but do you really want town planning to be based on greed, stupidity, short-sightedness and NIMBYism?
those annoying nasally tossers that campaign against ever minor slight are being given power?? crazy :y
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And your alternative is ?
No doubt for westminster to decide to build 10,000 houses where it puts a pin in a map. With no thought for anyone allready living there.
Yes nimbys can be a pain, but def more power should be given to local communities to decide where and how many properties should be built surely.
I suspect BJ, living where you do you have little problem with large scale development. Where I am has had massive over development in the last 30 years, and your last government wanted us to have even more. But they would not build new schools or roads or hospitals, they would all have to cope with it.
I also agree there are far more more important thing in this world than where a few thousand houses etc. are built. But most of us cannot see beyond our own noses, hence local issues become very important. :)
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every neighbourhood has them, the small people who don't get worked up about poverty, homelessness, injustice, starvation, disease but jesus try and paint the lamposts the wrong colour and they'll want you hanging from them ;D
Cameron wants these NIMBY's to not only run schools, but now make decisions on town planning.....interesting choice that.........leave the big society (or BS for short) to be run by the people with enough money not to spend time earning it, now i don't know about you - but do you really want town planning to be based on greed, stupidity, short-sightedness and NIMBYism?
those annoying nasally tossers that campaign against ever minor slight are being given power?? crazy :y
And precisely how is that different to the current system?
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That is how it has been for years in Spain. The local council gave permission to build, extend etc. and charged about 3% of the total cost as a fee which went into the town hall coffers. Doesn't take a genius to realise that backhanders, bribes from mates would be rife.
End result, The regional government have stepped in and declared lots of houses (tens if not 100's thousands of houses) illegal and created demolition orders. meanwhile the corrupt mayors of the town halls are being prosecuted which will take years (this being Spain).
I could see the same happening in Britain.!!
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every neighbourhood has them, the small people who don't get worked up about poverty, homelessness, injustice, starvation, disease but jesus try and paint the lamposts the wrong colour and they'll want you hanging from them ;D
Cameron wants these NIMBY's to not only run schools, but now make decisions on town planning.....interesting choice that.........leave the big society (or BS for short) to be run by the people with enough money not to spend time earning it, now i don't know about you - but do you really want town planning to be based on greed, stupidity, short-sightedness and NIMBYism?
those annoying nasally tossers that campaign against ever minor slight are being given power?? crazy :y
every neighbourhood has them, the small people who don't get worked up about poverty, homelessness, injustice, starvation,
;D How worked up would you like them to get BJ? Should they disregard the likelihood that such saturated development would create some of the very problems you describe?
Until a very firm hand is taken to the planning criteria for future urban development - on a country-wide basis - these and other problems, caused by the short-sightedness of social engineering (so beloved of the last Administration) and the desire for profit by the people who seek to create such oases of humanity, will blight this nation for some time to come.
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i think you'll get decisions based purely on selfishness, not what's better for the greater good - disastrous in my opinion. it'll be decisions taken by the sharp-elbowed middle-class busy-bodies pushing in to voice their interests and their interests alone to the detriment of all else :o
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i think you'll get decisions based purely on selfishness, not what's better for the greater good - disastrous in my opinion. it'll be decisions taken by the sharp-elbowed middle-class busy-bodies pushing in to voice their interests and their interests alone to the detriment of all else :o
I repeat my earlier question ;)
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Cameron wants us to do all the things the Council are supposed to do which we pay them for....and still pay Council-tax-on-time-or-you-will-go-to-court... >:(
we'll be clearing snow and gritting our own streets next Feb... :-?
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every neighbourhood has them, the small people who don't get worked up about poverty, homelessness, injustice, starvation, disease but jesus try and paint the lamposts the wrong colour and they'll want you hanging from them ;D
Cameron wants these NIMBY's to not only run schools, but now make decisions on town planning.....interesting choice that.........leave the big society (or BS for short) to be run by the people with enough money not to spend time earning it, now i don't know about you - but do you really want town planning to be based on greed, stupidity, short-sightedness and NIMBYism?
those annoying nasally tossers that campaign against ever minor slight are being given power?? crazy :y
unfortunately BJ those people govern not only most of the western countries also eastern countries.. >:(
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i think you'll get decisions based purely on selfishness, not what's better for the greater good - disastrous in my opinion. it'll be decisions taken by the sharp-elbowed middle-class busy-bodies pushing in to voice their interests and their interests alone to the detriment of all else :o
Sounds like the manifesto for, and unwelcome result of, policy based on the vision of New Labour.
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Cameron wants us to do all the things the Council are supposed to do which we pay them for....and still pay Council-tax-on-time-or-you-will-go-to-court... >:(
we'll be clearing snow and gritting our own streets next Feb... :-?
Like we did earlier this year? On the upside, it created a great community spirit around here (we have always had a good community in our road, but the snow this year widened that out to adjacent roads)
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Cameron wants us to do all the things the Council are supposed to do which we pay them for....and still pay Council-tax-on-time-or-you-will-go-to-court... >:(
we'll be clearing snow and gritting our own streets next Feb... :-?
Like we did earlier this year? On the upside, it created a great community spirit around here (we have always had a good community in our road, but the snow this year widened that out to adjacent roads)
Next you will be speaking French or German. ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Cameron wants us to do all the things the Council are supposed to do which we pay them for....and still pay Council-tax-on-time-or-you-will-go-to-court... >:(
we'll be clearing snow and gritting our own streets next Feb... :-?
Planning applications are funded by the planning charge.......whic is sadly not that cheap
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I should say that I quite like the ides.
Having had to recently fight a planning application in a small village where the developer had gone out his way to 'tick the boxes' e.g. 'affordable housing', 'green areas', 'minimum occupation sizes' etc, these changes would mean that the locals would have a greater say rather than a planning forum just checking it meets the current tick box exercise of the 'local plan'
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In theory the Big Society should be a progressive step given the current state of local government excess that we have now.
Banjax voices a lot of concerns which I can identify with and no doubt you will find that certain "types" will take over the concept and run it to suit themselves - this can only happen of course with apathy from everyone else.
Whether I have time or not to make more of a contribution locally is a big question as I have successfully mobilised local people to resist idiotic central government diktat in the past - gravel extraction and housebuilding. I could be accused of being a nimby in that process but that is a difficult term to apply to people in general and must be related to the scale of development that is proposed.
You have to meet with some of these local government officers to see just how inept they are and how they bring in consultants to prepare proposals for what the Council officers are employed to do in the first place. This oversight of wanton waste and inefficiency is something that certain members of the community would be able to advise on if they have time. And that is the key. If nobody experienced is around to help others with this oversight then the lay people that take it on will get hood winked by the officers just as Councillors are now in many (but not all) cases.
Where I would hope that BS should have more value is where local people are engaged in monitoring the impact of local services which are carried out by full time local authority staff and in effect take the place of all these advisors, and assorted quangos which definitely do seem to be wasteful.
This started to get debated last night on question time except Bob Crowe misunderstood a point made by a member of the audience.
If local people do not get more involved then the Council Officers will cut front line services to scare the populace.
This is not going to be an easy exercise but we should give it a go but the big issue is how lay people are trained to go about it.
If they are not then the Banjax issue comes into play.
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i think you'll get decisions based purely on selfishness, not what's better for the greater good - disastrous in my opinion. it'll be decisions taken by the sharp-elbowed middle-class busy-bodies pushing in to voice their interests and their interests alone to the detriment of all else :o
I am sharpening my elbows at this very moment. Now let's see, what would [size=16]I[/size] like to see happening to the local oiks. ::)
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i think you'll get decisions based purely on selfishness, not what's better for the greater good - disastrous in my opinion. it'll be decisions taken by the sharp-elbowed middle-class busy-bodies pushing in to voice their interests and their interests alone to the detriment of all else :o
I am sharpening my elbows at this very moment. Now let's see, what would [size=16]I[/size] like to see happening to the local oiks. ::)
I should point out to you ST that a further amendment to The Criminal Justice Act (1988) (Offensive Weapons) (Amendment) Order 2008 is being made to deal with persons in possession of offensive body parts - such as sharp elbows.
Just giving you the 'heads-up' :) :) :y
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i think you'll get decisions based purely on selfishness, not what's better for the greater good - disastrous in my opinion. it'll be decisions taken by the sharp-elbowed middle-class busy-bodies pushing in to voice their interests and their interests alone to the detriment of all else :o
I am sharpening my elbows at this very moment. Now let's see, what would [size=16]I[/size] like to see happening to the local oiks. ::)
I should point out to you ST that a further amendment to The Criminal Justice Act (1988) (Offensive Weapons) (Amendment) Order 2008 is being made to deal with persons in possession of offensive body parts - such as sharp elbows.
Just giving you the 'heads-up' :) :) :y
Does it also outlaw pointed remarks? :-?
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i think you'll get decisions based purely on selfishness, not what's better for the greater good - disastrous in my opinion. it'll be decisions taken by the sharp-elbowed middle-class busy-bodies pushing in to voice their interests and their interests alone to the detriment of all else :o
I am sharpening my elbows at this very moment. Now let's see, what would [size=16]I[/size] like to see happening to the local oiks. ::)
I should point out to you ST that a further amendment to The Criminal Justice Act (1988) (Offensive Weapons) (Amendment) Order 2008 is being made to deal with persons in possession of offensive body parts - such as sharp elbows.
Just giving you the 'heads-up' :) :) :y
Does it also outlaw pointed remarks? :-?
I don't think possession of a razer-sharp wit was considered in this latest crack-down. HTH :y
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i think you'll get decisions based purely on selfishness, not what's better for the greater good - disastrous in my opinion. it'll be decisions taken by the sharp-elbowed middle-class busy-bodies pushing in to voice their interests and their interests alone to the detriment of all else :o
I am sharpening my elbows at this very moment. Now let's see, what would [size=16]I[/size] like to see happening to the local oiks. ::)
I should point out to you ST that a further amendment to The Criminal Justice Act (1988) (Offensive Weapons) (Amendment) Order 2008 is being made to deal with persons in possession of offensive body parts - such as sharp elbows.
Just giving you the 'heads-up' :) :) :y
Does it also outlaw pointed remarks? :-?
I don't think possession of a razer-sharp wit was considered in this latest crack-down. HTH :y
Tut, tut,tut ;D
Are you not keen on spelling? ;D ;D
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i think you'll get decisions based purely on selfishness, not what's better for the greater good - disastrous in my opinion. it'll be decisions taken by the sharp-elbowed middle-class busy-bodies pushing in to voice their interests and their interests alone to the detriment of all else :o
I am sharpening my elbows at this very moment. Now let's see, what would [size=16]I[/size] like to see happening to the local oiks. ::)
I should point out to you ST that a further amendment to The Criminal Justice Act (1988) (Offensive Weapons) (Amendment) Order 2008 is being made to deal with persons in possession of offensive body parts - such as sharp elbows.
Just giving you the 'heads-up' :) :) :y
Does it also outlaw pointed remarks? :-?
I don't think possession of a razer-sharp wit was considered in this latest crack-down. HTH :y
Tut, tut,tut ;D
Are you not keen on spelling? ;D ;D
;D ;D ;D outstanding 8-) :y
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local authority planners seem to be viewed as pond life by many in society, but when something people dont like is proposed in the neighbourhood, I imagine the planners phone is ringing off the hook.
BS sounds far too random and ad hoc, I imagine it will prove to be a nightmare for developers, as permission is dependant upon if it upsets some cantankerous gits with the time to argue rather than some predefined criteria. The developer buys land on the basis of its status or at least likelyhood of getting permission, how can any land be valued when decisions are going to be at the whim of local people who may (or may not have axes) to grind?
I fear that some communities may lack the right type of self regarding articulate busy bodies with time on their hands required for this BS.Lets say they want to build a bail hostel or allow a massage place on or near our council estate. Have we a nice retired solicitor or accountant living on our crappy council estate? NO, those people wouldnt dream of living here, we have some mad old buggers on DLA and breakless gits smoking joints and wearing baseball caps, and the rest of us are too busy working at our crappy jobs to lobby the town hall. we have no effective voice- Who is going to listen to a ranting old bloke in jeans and leather jacket?
Dont want to get all class warrior about this but BS may well prove to be culturally bias, at least current system has some basis on the question" what is good for the town?" BS is a NIMBY charter, and you can bet they will be happy enough to have it in YOUR backyard if you dont kick up enough articulate white middle class stink.
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local authority planners seem to be viewed as pond life by many in society, but when something people dont like is proposed in the neighbourhood, I imagine the planners phone is ringing off the hook.
BS sounds far too random and ad hoc, I imagine it will prove to be a nightmare for developers, as permission is dependant upon if it upsets some cantankerous gits with the time to argue rather than some predefined criteria. The developer buys land on the basis of its status or at least likelyhood of getting permission, how can any land be valued when decisions are going to be at the whim of local people who may (or may not have axes) to grind?
I fear that some communities may lack the right type of self regarding articulate busy bodies with time on their hands required for this BS.Lets say they want to build a bail hostel or allow a massage place on or near our council estate. Have we a nice retired solicitor or accountant living on our crappy council estate? NO, those people wouldnt dream of living here, we have some mad old buggers on DLA and breakless gits smoking joints and wearing baseball caps, and the rest of us are too busy working at our crappy jobs to lobby the town hall. we have no effective voice- Who is going to listen to a ranting old bloke in jeans and leather jacket?
Dont want to get all class warrior about this but BS may well prove to be culturally bias, at least current system has some basis on the question" what is good for the town?" BS is a NIMBY charter, and you can bet they will be happy enough to have it in YOUR backyard if you dont kick up enough articulate white middle class stink.
Is that a vote for leaving things as they are B?
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So as I see it ...
If you agree with the local "objections" to anything .. the folks objecting are "fine upstanding citizens working for the community" who deserve support.
If you disagree with those "objections" the folks making them are interfering busybodies who should shut up.
A fine, balanced standpoint .. NOT ... abject hypocrisy ... YUP .. :)
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I do understand where Bury Omega is coming from. It is a view that in the leafy suburbs you can expect to find experienced people with time on their hands to defend local causes whereas in certain areas people may perceive that they do not have access to retired accountants and solicitors who they associate with having the ability to respond to issues on behalf of the neighbourhood/community.
Areas such as those described by Bury Omega may need assistance and training in some aspects of opposing things like planning applications but at the outset I do not think this is necessary on the basis that if something arises that you do not like then you can register your concern. The issue is more whether anyone in the area is prepared to go a bit further and get a few neighbours, people at the pub etc, local papers, involved in the issue. The fact that Bury Omega can post on here and express concerns would be half the battle as internet and email is the cornerstone of dealing with authorities and finding out what they are doing. The other facility is residents associations although these can take all sorts of shapes and sizes.
If you have no belief that you can change things then there is a problem and maybe this concern should be taken up with your MP abd Councillors how best to approach the matter in your area.
Not sure if Bury Omega lives in Bury but when I was living there 30 years ago I was involved in 2 or 3 major issues which I found time for.
Another point is the way Councils notify residents of local issues - this needs some attention from government as quite often they slide things through during holiday periods when people take their eye off local papers. I think a lot more publicity of some issues is necessary rather than just putting some huge document in the local library.
I would just advise Bury Omega to give it a go - believe me -a few critical short emails can be enough to get attention to an issue you do not like - speak to the papers also - they love this stuff at local level.
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I do understand where Bury Omega is coming from. It is a view that in the leafy suburbs you can expect to find experienced people with time on their hands to defend local causes whereas in certain areas people may perceive that they do not have access to retired accountants and solicitors who they associate with having the ability to respond to issues on behalf of the neighbourhood/community.
Areas such as those described by Bury Omega may need assistance and training in some aspects of opposing things like planning applications but at the outset I do not think this is necessary on the basis that if something arises that you do not like then you can register your concern. The issue is more whether anyone in the area is prepared to go a bit further and get a few neighbours, people at the pub etc, local papers, involved in the issue. The fact that Bury Omega can post on here and express concerns would be half the battle as internet and email is the cornerstone of dealing with authorities and finding out what they are doing. The other facility is residents associations although these can take all sorts of shapes and sizes.
If you have no belief that you can change things then there is a problem and maybe this concern should be taken up with your MP abd Councillors how best to approach the matter in your area.
Not sure if Bury Omega lives in Bury but when I was living there 30 years ago I was involved in 2 or 3 major issues which I found time for.
Another point is the way Councils notify residents of local issues - this needs some attention from government as quite often they slide things through during holiday periods when people take their eye off local papers. I think a lot more publicity of some issues is necessary rather than just putting some huge document in the local library.
I would just advise Bury Omega to give it a go - believe me -a few critical short emails can be enough to get attention to an issue you do not like - speak to the papers also - they love this stuff at local level.
The issue is more whether anyone in the area is prepared to go a bit further and get a few neighbours, people at the pub etc, local papers, involved in the issue
That's the stumbling-block PS, many are disinclined to be bothered so render themselves incapable (by design or otherwise) of mounting a well grounded response to whatever proposal is being questioned.
This lack of concern has allowed central government (including the EU Council/Commission/Parliament/Court) to create legislation and have it enforced - without challenge for the most part - through the local government structure.
It seems strange to me therefore, that many people will criticise those who decide to become interested in what's happening in their community, when runaway development seems likely to impinge fundamentally on the status quo of that community.
This is one of the many reasons I fear for this nation and its citizens. More and more people are switching off their interest, in just how government (including local government) is doing its job, for the familiar friend of apathy and the expectation that someone else will always sort the matter out.
Well conceived, appropriate and measured development is essential for the future well-being of our communities and nation as a whole, but development at any cost is most certainly not.
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So as I see it ...
If you agree with the local "objections" to anything .. the folks objecting are "fine upstanding citizens working for the community" who deserve support.
If you disagree with those "objections" the folks making them are interfering busybodies who should shut up.
A fine, balanced standpoint .. NOT ... abject hypocrisy ... YUP .. :)
I do like a bit of abject hypocrisy, it goes well with my bigotry and aloofness. :y
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Even if any such ventures ever get off the ground, in most parts of the country said properties (modest as they may be) will still be too expensive for young families starting out one income so who will live in them?