Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: Nickbat on 25 July 2010, 15:30:09
-
Well that's my view.
Sheer, blatant, rule breaking.
:o :o >:( >:( >:(
-
Ferrari make the rules, so as usual nothing will happen ::)
Fact is Massa was not slower, they just waned Alonso to get points for championship, and i don't know what that idiot was so happy about when he won! It was gifted to him >:(
-
They should have both places stripped from them however the stewards will just fine them.
Hamilton did well finishing fourth. Showed Button a clean pair of heels again!
-
I agree with Nick -
blatant cheating - this is the kind of garbage that ruins F1's image, just be open and honest and get rid of the ludicrous rule that says team orders are illegal, as DC says its completely unworkable. every team has team orders at a certain point in the championship so lets not pretend they dont exist. and ferrari - stop lying to us - by treating us like idiots you look like morons. >:(
good fun watching Alonso and Ferrari squirm tho ;D :y
-
i hope they get a time penalty, such a tight finish, means they will be all but out of it
-
looks like they've covered themselves by getting Massa to say it was his decision and his alone :o
-
Ferrari have been fined $100,000 for breaching sporting regulations after appearing to implement team orders during the German Prix.
The Italian team has also been referred to the sport's governing body, the FIA, after Felipe Massa slowed down to allow team-mate Fernando Alonso past to win.
However the result of the race, won by Alonso from Massa, is unaffected.
from the BBC Sport website
-
Oh, shame, did I miss another tedious event?
Still, sounds like there was at least one overtaking manuover :y
-
fines utterly pointless, they have bags of money. Should have had points / time penalty >:(
-
The FIA do not have the 'dangle berries' to punish Ferrari with point deductions
-
All the other teams now know it costs $100,000 to break the team orders rule. It may just work against ferrari in the future.
-
All the other teams now know it costs $100,000 to break the team orders rule. It may just work against ferrari in the future.
Except McLaren, who would get a 3 race ban.....
-
All the other teams now know it costs $100,000 to break the team orders rule. It may just work against ferrari in the future.
Except McLaren, who would get a 3 race ban.....
And Hispana racing who would be bankrupt. ;D
-
DC is a cock who talks complete 'dangle berries',always has been always will be.Eddie Jordan hit the nail on the head.Everyone who bought a ticket or turned on their TV was cheated of the possibility of seeing Alonso try to pass Massa.
I hoped we had seen the end of this sort of unsporting spectacle in F1 with the end of the Scumacher/Ferrari/Jean Todt dynasty of cheats. Ferrari obviously still know that they can ignore sporting ethics and the rules and get away with a light slap on the wrist.
Imo Alonso should have been excluded from todays results and Ferrari should lose the constructors points they had earned so far this season. As a lifelong fan of motorsport it made me sick to my stomach to watch.
>:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
-
DC is a cock who talks complete 'dangle berries',always has been always will be.Eddie Jordan hit the nail on the head.Everyone who bought a ticket or turned on their TV was cheated of the possibility of seeing Alonso try to pass Massa.
I hoped we had seen the end of this sort of unsporting spectacle in F1 with the end of the Scumacher/Ferrari/Jean Todt dynasty of cheats. Ferrari obviously still know that they can ignore sporting ethics and the rules and get away with a light slap on the wrist.
Imo Alonso should have been excluded from todays results and Ferrari should lose the constructors points they had earned so far this season. As a lifelong fan of motorsport it made me sick to my stomach to watch.
>:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
That implies 'competition' (only competition that happens all weekend is the qualifying) and 'sportsmanship' (that too much money in a sport removes).
F1 is not sport IMHO
-
Agreed. I had hoped that it had started to move a little back in the right direction, but today shattered that little illusion. :(
-
Just watching the Senna item on TG it puts todays crap racing into perspective and has made all the hours of tedious TG worth watching for these very special 10 minutes.
-
DC is a cock who talks complete 'dangle berries',always has been always will be.Eddie Jordan hit the nail on the head.Everyone who bought a ticket or turned on their TV was cheated of the possibility of seeing Alonso try to pass Massa.
I hoped we had seen the end of this sort of unsporting spectacle in F1 with the end of the Scumacher/Ferrari/Jean Todt dynasty of cheats. Ferrari obviously still know that they can ignore sporting ethics and the rules and get away with a light slap on the wrist.
Imo Alonso should have been excluded from todays results and Ferrari should lose the constructors points they had earned so far this season. As a lifelong fan of motorsport it made me sick to my stomach to watch.
>:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
thats not the same Eddie Jordan who told Ralf Schumacher to back off and let Damon Hill win is it?
DC is just being honest, as was Martin Brundle - both said they'd do the same thing - it's a team sport - the only thing wrong is trying to make team orders illegal - they all do it - Ferrari were just dumb enough to make it obvious. Stupid, unworkable law, Ferrari could just have easily held Massa in the pits for an extra second or two and we'd be none the wiser, or use a special code word as other teams do. If you can't grasp that its a team sport then what have you been watching? What was it DC said..."without a team around you, you'd be sitting on the track in your underpants" :y
it does stink tho - Ferrari have blown the good press they'd get from Massa clinching a win 1 yr after nearly dying and them finishing 1,2 :o
-
Just watching the Senna item on TG it puts todays crap racing into perspective and has made all the hours of tedious TG worth watching for these very special 10 minutes.
excellent piece on Senna :y
one of the best TG's I've seen in a while - Veyron record, Tom Cruise and Cameron Diaz were good value too - only the Touraeg piece was a bit dull - haven't we seen these type of races too much now?
8-)
-
Its a team sport in the sense that the driver needs a team of people to provide him with a car to drive when he is on the track, but once they are in the car they should always be allowed to race unless one of them can win the championship and the other cant.
Im not singing the praises of EJ, I normally think he is an irritating little d**khead, but on this occasion he was spot on imo.Its supposed to be the best drivers in the best cars racing each other ffs, thats the whole point. ;)
-
It strikes me that 'sporting' credentials of those racing in this way are somewhat diminished by the apparently overriding need to promote the brand as a financially lucrative entity - by its organisers and those others who consider the need to make money to be of much greater importance than to celebrate the true values of sportsman/woman/person/ship.
-
It strikes me that 'sporting' credentials of those racing in this way are somewhat diminished by the apparently overriding need to promote the brand as a financially lucrative entity - by its organisers and those others who consider the need to make money to be of much greater importance than to celebrate the true values of sportsman/woman/person/ship.
I think the 'sportsmanship' you speak of is an English (possibly British) peculiarity. It is where an individual or team takes it upon themselves to interpret the rules in the favour of the sport rather than themselves. I don't know of any nationalities that would agree with it nowadays. It still appeals to me but then I back losers generally! ;D
In view of the rules having been explicitly changed to prevent this particular strategy (calling your second-placed car past the first-placed one) then the Ferrari action has to be rule-breaking - and they have been fined.
I agree with those who say this rule is un-workable and another workaround is needed. Team actions can include getting one driver to hold-up competitors to the advantage their of team-mate which is not banned AFAIK. So team actions are valid in my view. It is certainly the case that we were deprived of the Vettel/Webber wheel-to-wheel stuff that we saw previously.
The fine with no points deducted or time penalties seems ineffective to me. As someone else has remarked, it will just go on the accounts.
-
Just watching the Senna item on TG it puts todays crap racing into perspective and has made all the hours of tedious TG worth watching for these very special 10 minutes.
excellent piece on Senna :y
one of the best TG's I've seen in a while - Veyron record, Tom Cruise and Cameron Diaz were good value too - only the Touraeg piece was a bit dull - haven't we seen these type of races too much now?
8-)
Bloody excellent show, and respect to CD for bring top of the leader board considering what her daily driver is. :y
-
DC is a cock who talks complete 'dangle berries',always has been always will be.Eddie Jordan hit the nail on the head.Everyone who bought a ticket or turned on their TV was cheated of the possibility of seeing Alonso try to pass Massa.
I hoped we had seen the end of this sort of unsporting spectacle in F1 with the end of the Scumacher/Ferrari/Jean Todt dynasty of cheats. Ferrari obviously still know that they can ignore sporting ethics and the rules and get away with a light slap on the wrist.
Imo Alonso should have been excluded from todays results and Ferrari should lose the constructors points they had earned so far this season. As a lifelong fan of motorsport it made me sick to my stomach to watch.
>:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
thats not the same Eddie Jordan who told Ralf Schumacher to back off and let Damon Hill win is it?
DC is just being honest, as was Martin Brundle - both said they'd do the same thing - it's a team sport - the only thing wrong is trying to make team orders illegal - they all do it - Ferrari were just dumb enough to make it obvious. Stupid, unworkable law, Ferrari could just have easily held Massa in the pits for an extra second or two and we'd be none the wiser, or use a special code word as other teams do. If you can't grasp that its a team sport then what have you been watching? What was it DC said..."without a team around you, you'd be sitting on the track in your underpants" :y
it does stink tho - Ferrari have blown the good press they'd get from Massa clinching a win 1 yr after nearly dying and them finishing 1,2 :o
If Ferrari had been stripped of the win, it would have made everyone think twice about doing it. ;)
-
Just watching the Senna item on TG it puts todays crap racing into perspective and has made all the hours of tedious TG worth watching for these very special 10 minutes.
excellent piece on Senna :y
one of the best TG's I've seen in a while - Veyron record, Tom Cruise and Cameron Diaz were good value too - only the Touraeg piece was a bit dull - haven't we seen these type of races too much now?
8-)
Bloody excellent show, and respect to CD for bring top of the leader board considering what her daily driver is. :y
That's 'TC' and 'his'
-
DC is a cock who talks complete 'dangle berries',always has been always will be.Eddie Jordan hit the nail on the head.Everyone who bought a ticket or turned on their TV was cheated of the possibility of seeing Alonso try to pass Massa.
I hoped we had seen the end of this sort of unsporting spectacle in F1 with the end of the Scumacher/Ferrari/Jean Todt dynasty of cheats. Ferrari obviously still know that they can ignore sporting ethics and the rules and get away with a light slap on the wrist.
Imo Alonso should have been excluded from todays results and Ferrari should lose the constructors points they had earned so far this season. As a lifelong fan of motorsport it made me sick to my stomach to watch.
>:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
thats not the same Eddie Jordan who told Ralf Schumacher to back off and let Damon Hill win is it?
DC is just being honest, as was Martin Brundle - both said they'd do the same thing - it's a team sport - the only thing wrong is trying to make team orders illegal - they all do it - Ferrari were just dumb enough to make it obvious. Stupid, unworkable law, Ferrari could just have easily held Massa in the pits for an extra second or two and we'd be none the wiser, or use a special code word as other teams do. If you can't grasp that its a team sport then what have you been watching? What was it DC said..."without a team around you, you'd be sitting on the track in your underpants" :y
it does stink tho - Ferrari have blown the good press they'd get from Massa clinching a win 1 yr after nearly dying and them finishing 1,2 :o
If Ferrari had been stripped of the win, it would have made everyone think twice about doing it. ;)
Precisely. :y
-
looks like they've covered themselves by getting Massa to say it was his decision and his alone :o
I think it was a "damned if he did" and "damned if he didn't" situation. He was hardly going to come out and a say Ferrari were lying which meant he had to bite the bullet and lie himself . The pointless £65,000.00 fine imposed on Ferrari is less than they have to pay Alonso for a day so don't know why the FIA bothered really. Hopefully when it comes before the WMSC they might impose a more fitting penalty. ::)
-
I would like to see some points docked for what happened,I feel for massa now he knows he has no chance of winning the drivers championship
-
Like football......golf..... and many others ......it's not sport ......it's big business. There is no such thing as a professional sport.... :y
-
Like football......golf..... and many others ......it's not sport ......it's big business. There is no such thing as a professional sport.... :y
The reason these sports have become big business is largely due to the so called professional sportsmen and women themselves demanding ever increasing pay as they see themselves at the top of their game and therefore worthy of extortionate salaries. The sport then has to be run as a business in order to finance them. :(
-
what's wrong with team orders.
people easily forget that F1 is a contest between teams, not just drivers. It's for the team to take whatever action they see fit in order to get a most favourable result. If this favours one driver over another, then so be it.
-
what's wrong with team orders.
people easily forget that F1 is a contest between teams, not just drivers. It's for the team to take whatever action they see fit in order to get a most favourable result. If this favours one driver over another, then so be it.
You've rather missed the point that the FIA specifically banned it. Your view is shared by many though, DC for one.
-
You've rather missed the point that the FIA specifically banned it. Your view is shared by many though, DC for one.
rather too worried by negative press, methinks
-
I think a team should be able to play itself as it sees fit, seeing as it is 'a team'.
But, FIA made those rules (rightly or wrongly), so they should have to abiode by them.
-
Agree with TB on abiding by rules they made.
However....if they do revert back to 'team orders', then they should scrap the individual drivers championship.
In any other sport its called 'nobbling', and those found out are usualy thrown out !!!!!!!!! And where money is involved, its usually a visit to court.
Looking at it in another way...do people bet on who will win the race............do they get their money back. I think not !!!! Therefore its 'nobbling'
-
It does seem a tad cheeky but hardly surprising just glad i did'nt sit through it.
Not knocking F1 fans, i used to love it myself but over the last few seasons it's become bitchier than a soap opera. I remember the 70's when motorsport was about driving...
....Yardley Mclaren soap on a rope!!!! :D 8-) :y
-
all that's not really true - just look a football - the manager has free reign to do what he wants with the team. He can even substitute one player for another.
it's the team that matters
-
all that's not really true - just look a football - the manager has free reign to do what he wants with the team. He can even substitute one player for another.
it's the team that matters
I don't think the comparison with football comes close.
If you were to give large bonuses to individual football players or man of the match, you might have something akin to the conflict that team and driver championships create in F1.
-
The issue is that team playing just doesn't work in Motorsport, IMHO.
As soon as it's no longer each driver to his own in a race to the chequered flag, much of the excitement has gone, IMHO.
I don't know what the solution is, as clearly F1 cars have to be operated by teams due to the costs involved.
Maybe there should be a driver's championship but no constructors' championship, or vice versa?
Maybe there should be no comms between driver and team during the race?
I don't recall team orders spoiling things as badly in the golden era of F1 (when I bothered to watch it). Why not?
Maybe teams should have to field a "rookie" and a more experienced driver rather than two more evenly matched drivers?
Kevin
-
The issue is that team playing just doesn't work in Motorsport, IMHO.
As soon as it's no longer each driver to his own in a race to the chequered flag, much of the excitement has gone, IMHO.
I don't know what the solution is, as clearly F1 cars have to be operated by teams due to the costs involved.
Maybe there should be a driver's championship but no constructors' championship, or vice versa?
Maybe there should be no comms between driver and team during the race?
I don't recall team orders spoiling things as badly in the golden era of F1 (when I bothered to watch it). Why not?
Maybe teams should have to field a "rookie" and a more experienced driver rather than two more evenly matched drivers?
Kevin
...........or just one driver per Team?
-
team orders was very prevalent throughout the seventies and eighties.
before that, in the sixties, team managers would call in a no2 driver and give his car to a number 1 if his own had failed.
-
oh for the days of graham hill and jackie stewart..... :-/
-
This was the icing on the cake for what was a truly horrific race. Webber was told to slow down on lap 30. By lap 37 the McLaren's were told to slow down. Then the team orders came through..... I went outside and washed the car.
If Alonso was sooo quick, how come he wasn't quick enough to overtake Massa? Yes dirty air etc etc but come on, at least try and earn your win.