Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: hotel21 on 19 September 2010, 20:06:30
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A friend of ours has a son in his late 30's. Some would say that he is 'touched' but the reality is, he has a mental age of perhaps 10 or 12. Powerfull lad, polite, well brought up, but is very much what is called kindly up this way, the daft laddie.
He has worked at a local Ford dealership for the past 15 years for 3 days a week, sweeping up, emptying bins, generally tidying up and hanging off the end of breaker bars when asked. he is well looked after by the guys in the workshop and very much considered part of the fixtures and fittings.
On Friday, he was called into the workshop managers office and told that he is being, effectively, sacked. Apparently Elf and Softy have done an inspection and are fearfull of both his and other workpersons safety as he does not have a 'one to one' overseer.
Now, during the past 15 years, there has not been the slightest problem either with him, or others, safetyand indeed, he is very much part of the team.
Whats very much the unknown is, is this just a ploy by management to save less than £100 a week or does health and safety really have that much of a say so? either way, to me, its a very sad reflection on our current society that this lad who no fault of his own, is able to get himself back and forward to a place of work on public transport and feel that he is a part of society and earn a wage, rather than be incumbent on the state?
Miffed? Me? Just a tad..... >:(
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He MUST have some kind of rights...surely? If his hours are more than 16 per week, he is classed as full time. I'm sure an employment tribunal would take his side. Although, I suspect, his self esteem and well-being will be badly affected.
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Yes, a sad state of affairs >:(
the value of employing him must be much more than his wages.
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I would certainly insist on seeing the H&S report that lists this as an issue, if it does exist i would then have a chat with C,A,B to find out if the H&S jobsworth has overstepped his/her authority as that is just plain petty & some might say discrimatory.(if thats the word im looking for) >:(
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Either way, this is sad news. Chances are it could well be a health and safety thing, if so there will be a report and I reckon the family should asl to see it.
If there is not a report and Ford have used this to move him on then I hope the batsards get what's coming to them.
All the best to the lad for the future, :y
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I agree on the face of it a sad reflection on society. We are all lucky to be alive and lucky not to have been born into the squalor and horror of a thgird world country.
it doesn't take much to help out someone else less well off.
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Has someone mentioned this to the local paper ?. A mention of this certainly won't help Ford's reputation locally. I'm sure the dealership could sort something out if they really wanted to.
People in the Highlands have long memories. :y
Ken
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That is a shame. When he's earning a wage & has the feeling that he is somebody.
I know that feeling all to well, but i can't comprehend what he must think & feel.
I too would like to see the revelant paper work to back up such a decesion.
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Crying shame .. :(
Probably triggered by some numpty lawyer type doing the "what if" scenario and deciding "what if" there was an incident and "we" were sued.
Easier to use the H&S "get out" than actually do something positive.
As already said ... let the local paper(s) know ??? .. surprising what a bit of "bad publicity" can do to these idiots.
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having worked in the trade for many years i can tell you that this is surprisingly common having a slightly disabled person to do the oddjobs around the place, however put your thinking caps on guys!! 100 perweek isnt even what they used to call petty cash to a dealership, its simply throwaway money which is what they pay the guy, however the dreaded health and safety idiots are affecting a whole lot of this type of employment by insisting on stupid rules like this, good grief it drives me mad!!! I am so glad im here, h and t would have heart attacks in spain, as an example the track that leads to Varches place would be closed because its not safe for vehicles!! as they must cross a water runoff area and the turn to Varches is very very tight with no barriers along the whole of the way, never mind that its been used this way for god knows how many years!!
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Thats appalling >:(
Check with the CAB and this
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/DisabledPeople/RightsAndObligations/DisabilityRights/DG_4001068
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Does the Disability Discrimination Act not apply on your side of the wall then?
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He MUST have some kind of rights...surely? If his hours are more than 16 per week, he is classed as full time. I'm sure an employment tribunal would take his side. Although, I suspect, his self esteem and well-being will be badly affected.
I hate having to agree with STMO but he is right... :y
Sounds to me like this chap has a 'Learning Disability' ( I am not making a diagnosis, just taking a guess, given the description) and there is a Government Policy to get more disabled, including Learning disabilities, into some for of work, even part time, as your friend is doing. If nothing else it helps a persons own self worth and helps to develop confidence, knowing that a person is positively contributing to society... :y
This needs looking into further, CAB first port of call, also does this chap have any 'professional' oversight from a Social Worker, if so give them a shout......
In the back of my mind there is something about Learning Mentors in such situations, which may be what the elf and softy lot are getting at, either way this chap needs an Advocate to look into this, and don't forget the new Disability Discrimination Act...this sort of thing makes my blood boil >:( >:(
I will see if I can find anything out when I go to work tomorrow... :)
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Does the Disability Discrimination Act not apply on your side of the wall then?
I did a load of DDA work on the Western Isles a couple of years ago ;)
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What a sad situation, it's a typical action by the the management not looking at the "bigger picture" I hope everything works out for the lad. I have a relative who specialises in employment law, I'll run this case by him and p.m. you his opinion
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Does the Disability Discrimination Act not apply on your side of the wall then?
It undoubtedly does Cap'n, or if not, our version of it. :y
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I do not really know if it is applicable now, but when I was an employer there was a scheme whereby you could employ a person who was registered as "disabled", which included all physical and mental disabilities, and the government would pay a large percentage of their wage. This of course was to encourage employers to engage such workers.
Does this scheme still exist? If so in this case their can be little saving for the dealership by discontinuing the lads employment. As for H&S reasons, unless it is a profession classed as "high risk", then I do not think the dealership can legally terminate his employment on that basis.
Whatever the reasons the dealership will have to justify why they have dismissed a worker who is fully protected by Employment Law, and this case should be referred to an Tribunal after seeking legal advice ;)
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As I said earlier, the lad may have some legal redress. But it's the damage it will have done to him already that would concern me, especially if he is unable to fully understand what is happening.
:(
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Vamps - yes, the lad has what can be generalised as 'learning difficulties'. He lives with his parents (who are almost pension age) and does need 'adult' input to ensure he is on the straight and narrow on a daily basis as regards washing, changing clothes etc but he is quite sharp in his own way.
Sounds a little unkind but he can count his change in a shop and woe betide you if its a penny short! ;D He can be abrupt and cut across conversations but, as said, he has a mental age of circa 10 or 12....
I only learned of this situation this afternoon and only got a cut down version of the story as we were in the process of leaving but will get a fuller brief in the next few days.
Plus, the Ford dealership is part of the same larger company that i now work for so will ask about, on the QT, and see what I can dredge up.... ;)
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This lad almost certainly 'gives' more to his workplace than he his given in return!. His workmates & everyone he comes into contact with will have had their perception of 'disabled' people altered (hopefully for the better) purely because he is one of the team. I don't the ins & outs of the 'System' these days, but this Sucks whichever way you look at it! >:(
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As I said earlier, the lad may have some legal redress. But it's the damage it will have done to him already that would concern me, especially if he is unable to fully understand what is happening.
:(
That, in a nutshell, is what concerns me. He is laughing it off, saying his mum has plenty of work for him but, all said and done, its not going to be the same, is it? If he is away from mum and dad for twenty or so hours a week, it has to be advantageous to both of them, I would have thought.
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I 'sorta' know a similar guy, he must be late 30's early 40's.....and probably same sorta mental age (10 - 12ish).
He's employed by my local council.....used to work at the local tip, but now works at a local park.....not sure what he does there and dont know why he was moved there.
I dont know if he supervised constantly either.
How i know him, is the local council pay for his cab fares to and from work.....and i, now and then, get his job to take him home...
I think its good the local council will employ persons, not as lucky in life as the majority as us....and it seems they are not that H&S as your local Ford garage B.....however as said i dont know if he's supervised all the time at work, tho' he isnt escorted to the cab that comes to pick him up...he finds his own way to the car that comes to get him.
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does health and safety really have that much of a say so? either way, to me, its a very sad reflection on our current society
A very poignant tale of where we presently stand in this modern country. :( :(
A lot of people can't function now without covering their arses - Christ alone knows what the coming decade will bring when the next batch of box-tickers are released to ply their trade.
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does health and safety really have that much of a say so? either way, to me, its a very sad reflection on our current society
A very poignant tale of where we presently stand in this modern country. :( :(
A lot of people can't function now without covering their arses - Christ alone knows what the coming decade will bring when the next batch of box-tickers are released to ply their trade.
That's about all the next generation will be capable of.
University modules in 'box ticking'. Don't laugh :(
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Such things bring a lump to my throat as much as anger me. Most of the relevant responses have been succinctly put so i can only add to Kens approach to involve local press, TV, Radio & any other media. Even if this does'nt result in his reinstatement (which with such a large co. i doubt it will) it might just lead to a local smaller firm offering him a similar position...maybe some good an come out of it?
Thoughts with the lad, Guy.
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H+s is bull IMO, it's a cut back, if the workshop is not a safe environment for him then they have to sort the workshop instead. So a double cut back, they don't have to spend on making the workshop safe, supervised or not, and they can show a wage saved.
Ime cab is waste of time they are snowed under, most mortgages offer a legal advice service as part of the deal. If you or the lads parents have access to such a thing that's a far better option.
I'm fairly sure a clued up employment lawyer would rip em a new one tbh. For distress to the whole family probably.
HR dept. needs a kicking there. >:(
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Sadly, H&S being the joke it is these days, is easily used as a "cop-out".
Methinks you are right to investigate on the QT before jumping to conclusions, Hotel! :y
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I do not really know if it is applicable now, but when I was an employer there was a scheme whereby you could employ a person who was registered as "disabled", which included all physical and mental disabilities, and the government would pay a large percentage of their wage. This of course was to encourage employers to engage such workers.
Does this scheme still exist? If so in this case their can be little saving for the dealership by discontinuing the lads employment. As for H&S reasons, unless it is a profession classed as "high risk", then I do not think the dealership can legally terminate his employment on that basis.
Whatever the reasons the dealership will have to justify why they have dismissed a worker who is fully protected by Employment Law, and this case should be referred to an Tribunal after seeking legal advice ;)
Well, anyone? Is there someone in the know who can answer please? :-/ :-/
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seems like he should be covered under the 1995 disability discrimination act (and the updated 2010 Equality Act). Much of what falls under the DDA is based on test cases found at Employment Tribunals, but these do include mental health issues such as learning difficulties, significant dyslexia and post natal depression. With my union we ask 5 questions to help us determine whether a member should be covered by the DDA;
1)Is there a mental or physical impairment?
2)Is it more than a trivial condition?
3)Has it or will it last more than a year?
4)What would happen if any meds were stopped?
5)Does it affect everyday life? eg-mobility/manual dexterity/co ordination/lifting/speech/memory/hearing/concentration/eyesight/learning and understanding.
Under the act employers have a duty to make "reasonable adjustments" to take into account of their emplyee in a wide range of situations. There may well be some areas of concern re this lad in the workplace but then the company should perform proper risk assesments (to protect both him and his workmates) in order to decide what-if any-changes should be made to accomodate. Sounds like the family need some legal advice but speak to the owners as they have obviously been happy with him until now and the very mention of their LEGAL responsibilites under the 1995 DDA and 2010 Equality Act may at least scare them into a more reasonable and considered approach. Good luck :y
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What a sad situation, it's a typical action by the the management not looking at the "bigger picture" I hope everything works out for the lad. I have a relative who specialises in employment law, I'll run this case by him and p.m. you his opinion
Having sought advice regarding this to put it bluntly the Ford dealership are up sh*t creek for the following reasons.
The company would find it difficult to site H&S as a reason for dismissal due to the fact that it does not seem to have been a problem over the last fifteen years. Even if the company say that the situation has changed,there are set proceedures that must be followed, reviews and asessments etc. If the company thought that his presence in the workplace would cause imminant risk they would have to suspend him on full pay until the reviews were completed.
If it were to go to a tribunal the company would be in for the high jump if disability discrimination was prooved, and the lad could be in for cosiderable compensation not only for loss of earnings but also any phycological damage caused by his dismissal.
In answer to Lizzies question yes there are grants available to businesses that take on people wth both pysical and mental issues.
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What a sad situation, it's a typical action by the the management not looking at the "bigger picture" I hope everything works out for the lad. I have a relative who specialises in employment law, I'll run this case by him and p.m. you his opinion
Having sought advice regarding this to put it bluntly the Ford dealership are up sh*t creek for the following reasons.
The company would find it difficult to site H&S as a reason for dismissal due to the fact that it does not seem to have been a problem over the last fifteen years. Even if the company say that the situation has changed,there are set proceedures that must be followed, reviews and asessments etc. If the company thought that his presence in the workplace would cause imminant risk they would have to suspend him on full pay until the reviews were completed.
If it were to go to a tribunal the company would be in for the high jump if disability discrimination was prooved, and the lad could be in for cosiderable compensation not only for loss of earnings but also any phycological damage caused by his dismissal.
In answer to Lizzies question yes there are grants available to businesses that take on people wth both pysical and mental issues.
Thanks Tony, much appreciated!! :-* :-* :y :y :y :y
I was beginning to think my posts had become invisable!! ::) ::) ::)
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What a sad situation, it's a typical action by the the management not looking at the "bigger picture" I hope everything works out for the lad. I have a relative who specialises in employment law, I'll run this case by him and p.m. you his opinion
Having sought advice regarding this to put it bluntly the Ford dealership are up sh*t creek for the following reasons.
The company would find it difficult to site H&S as a reason for dismissal due to the fact that it does not seem to have been a problem over the last fifteen years. Even if the company say that the situation has changed,there are set proceedures that must be followed, reviews and asessments etc. If the company thought that his presence in the workplace would cause imminant risk they would have to suspend him on full pay until the reviews were completed.
If it were to go to a tribunal the company would be in for the high jump if disability discrimination was prooved, and the lad could be in for cosiderable compensation not only for loss of earnings but also any phycological damage caused by his dismissal.
In answer to Lizzies question yes there are grants available to businesses that take on people wth both pysical and mental issues.
Thanks Tony, much appreciated!! :-* :-* :y :y :y :y
I was beginning to think my posts had become invisable!! ::) ::) ::)
Who said that!? :o
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What a sad situation, it's a typical action by the the management not looking at the "bigger picture" I hope everything works out for the lad. I have a relative who specialises in employment law, I'll run this case by him and p.m. you his opinion
Having sought advice regarding this to put it bluntly the Ford dealership are up sh*t creek for the following reasons.
The company would find it difficult to site H&S as a reason for dismissal due to the fact that it does not seem to have been a problem over the last fifteen years. Even if the company say that the situation has changed,there are set proceedures that must be followed, reviews and asessments etc. If the company thought that his presence in the workplace would cause imminant risk they would have to suspend him on full pay until the reviews were completed.
If it were to go to a tribunal the company would be in for the high jump if disability discrimination was prooved, and the lad could be in for cosiderable compensation not only for loss of earnings but also any phycological damage caused by his dismissal.
In answer to Lizzies question yes there are grants available to businesses that take on people wth both pysical and mental issues.
Thanks Tony, much appreciated!! :-* :-* :y :y :y :y
I was beginning to think my posts had become invisable!! ::) ::) ::)
Who said that!? :o
You heard me then Steve! ::) ::) :D :D :D :D :D :D
At the moment though it seems not many are able or want to hear!! ::) ::) :D :D :D ;)
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I was instantly dismissed by my employer 2 years ago, due to a physical disability - shut up STMO, it was physical :P- I had been employed by them for 20 years, and they were aware of the disability.
Part of their reasoning was similar to this case - protecting me and my workmates from possible H&S issues which could arise from my disability etc.
The tribunal awarded me £15,000 compensation for wrongful/unfair dismissal and Disability discrimination. ;)
The sad end to the story was that the employer went into administration before the tribunal. They started up again under a slightly different name and carried on as normal, but in the legal sense the company didnt exist any more, so I had no possible way of obtaining the award. >:( >:(
So my close love affair with a new R1 was never to be. :'( :'(
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I was instantly dismissed by my employer 2 years ago, due to a physical disability - shut up STMO, it was physical :P- I had been employed by them for 20 years, and they were aware of the disability.
Part of their reasoning was similar to this case - protecting me and my workmates from possible H&S issues which could arise from my disability etc.
The tribunal awarded me £15,000 compensation for wrongful/unfair dismissal and Disability discrimination. ;)
The sad end to the story was that the employer went into administration before the tribunal. They started up again under a slightly different name and carried on as normal, but in the legal sense the company didnt exist any more, so I had no possible way of obtaining the award. >:( >:(
So my close love affair with a new R1 was never to be. :'( :'(
I hate, I mean, rather hate that piece of legislation. The debts of a company should be tied to the people that run/ran it. Bastards get away with murder. >:(
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Me too, the family who own the business have made many millions from it over the years. Put it all in the sons name and carry on regardless. Several small companies went bust due to what they were owed.
They made the workforce redundant - didnt pay the months wages or redundancy money, the taxpayer paid it. A short time later, they took them back on again and carried on. It shouldnt be allowed. >:( >:(
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A friend of ours has a son in his late 30's. Some would say that he is 'touched' but the reality is, he has a mental age of perhaps 10 or 12. Powerfull lad, polite, well brought up, but is very much what is called kindly up this way, the daft laddie.
He has worked at a local Ford dealership for the past 15 years for 3 days a week, sweeping up, emptying bins, generally tidying up and hanging off the end of breaker bars when asked. he is well looked after by the guys in the workshop and very much considered part of the fixtures and fittings.
On Friday, he was called into the workshop managers office and told that he is being, effectively, sacked. Apparently Elf and Softy have done an inspection and are fearfull of both his and other workpersons safety as he does not have a 'one to one' overseer.
Now, during the past 15 years, there has not been the slightest problem either with him, or others, safetyand indeed, he is very much part of the team.
Whats very much the unknown is, is this just a ploy by management to save less than £100 a week or does health and safety really have that much of a say so? either way, to me, its a very sad reflection on our current society that this lad who no fault of his own, is able to get himself back and forward to a place of work on public transport and feel that he is a part of society and earn a wage, rather than be incumbent on the state?
Miffed? Me? Just a tad..... >:(
Thinking about this a little more, dependant on how many hours a day he works the company may be in breach of minimum wage legislation.
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Thanks to all who contributed to this thread. Its appreciated...
As said, I only got the bare bones on Sunday as we left and today, had a run to Newcastle and back on the hurry up and never had a chance to persue. Wednesday is another day...
Again, thanks to all. Will keep you updated. :y