Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: Nickbat on 26 September 2010, 01:00:08
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I would say yes.
Britain's biggest supermarket chains are selling halal lamb and chicken without telling unsuspecting shoppers.
Those stocking meat slaughtered according to Islamic law include Waitrose, Marks & Spencer, Sainsbury’s, Tesco, Somerfield and the Co-op.
And a Mail on Sunday investigation has found that fast-food chains including Domino’s Pizza, Pizza Hut, KFC, Nando’s and Subway are also using halal meat without telling customers.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1315278/Top-supermarkets-secretly-sell-halal-Sainsburys-Tesco-Waitrose-M-S-dont-tell-meat-ritually-slaughtered.html
>:( >:( >:(
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I would agree with you there, I believe we do have a right to know.
It seems that many are pandering to muslims to please them, disregarding everyone else.
Besides, IMO animal slaughter according to halal methods is cruel, but no one seems to want to 'offend' muslims by making constructive criticism or disagreeing with them. The squeakiest wheel gets the most oil.
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Personally I couldn't care less how it was killed or what strange words were recited over it, as long as it tastes nice and doesn't give me food poisoning.
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Personally I couldn't care less how it was killed or what strange words were recited over it, as long as it tastes nice and doesn't give me food poisoning.
But surely if an animal can be killed more humanely it should be, do you not agree?
Yes animals don't have the same level of intelligence as humans (allegedly!), and their methods of communication aren't as sophisticated, but they still have instinct, they still feel pain, terror, fright and dread. They still have a life and want to live, not be butchered for an obese slob to trough in a greasy spoon.
Halal dictates animals throats are cut, then they die by bleeding to death.
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YES!!! :y
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Personally I couldn't care less how it was killed or what strange words were recited over it, as long as it tastes nice and doesn't give me food poisoning.
But surely if an animal can be killed more humanely it should be, do you not agree?
Yes animals don't have the same level of intelligence as humans (allegedly!), and their methods of communication aren't as sophisticated, but they still have instinct, they still feel pain, terror, fright and dread. They still have a life and want to live, not be butchered for an obese slob to trough in a greasy spoon.
Halal dictates animals throats are cut, then they die by bleeding to death.
I agree that the killing of the animal should be the most humane, but damn...... Humans have slaughtered animals for consumption since (before) any records, and that includes cave paintings.
Humans are top of the food chain. We hunt, kill and eat.
A Lion doesn't worry about whether or not the Antelope is dead before it starts tearing it to pieces. We shouldn't have any more care than the Lion. It's only our conscience which dictates we do. It's an animal! If it tastes good, kill the oppser and then eat it.
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Personally I couldn't care less how it was killed or what strange words were recited over it, as long as it tastes nice and doesn't give me food poisoning.
But surely if an animal can be killed more humanely it should be, do you not agree?
Yes animals don't have the same level of intelligence as humans (allegedly!), and their methods of communication aren't as sophisticated, but they still have instinct, they still feel pain, terror, fright and dread. They still have a life and want to live, not be butchered for an obese slob to trough in a greasy spoon.
Halal dictates animals throats are cut, then they die by bleeding to death.
I agree that the killing of the animal should be the most humane, but damn...... Humans have slaughtered animals for consumption since (before) any records, and that includes cave paintings.
Humans are top of the food chain. We hunt, kill and eat.
A Lion doesn't worry about whether or not the Antelope is dead before it starts tearing it to pieces. We shouldn't have any more care than the Lion. It's only our conscience which dictates we do. It's an animal! If it tastes good, kill the =blanker and then eat it.
Not a very well reasoned argument there. Because it's 'always' happened, we'll just carry on, whether it's right or wrong?
Why shouldn't we care more than the lion? You seem to be suggesting that we shouldn't care if an animal is alive or not before we eat it?!?!?!
You say it's only down to our conscience what we do? What about humility and respect for other living things?
I have more time and respect for animals over some people, especially the sub human scum who seem to think it's funny to abuse animals.
What if there was a life form of greater intelligence than you, that bred you then killed you in a painful disrepectful way, butchered you, and put you in a kebab to be half eaten and thrown in the pavement by a fat useless obese slob?
I don't think you'd want that.
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Personally I couldn't care less how it was killed or what strange words were recited over it, as long as it tastes nice and doesn't give me food poisoning.
But surely if an animal can be killed more humanely it should be, do you not agree?
Yes animals don't have the same level of intelligence as humans (allegedly!), and their methods of communication aren't as sophisticated, but they still have instinct, they still feel pain, terror, fright and dread. They still have a life and want to live, not be butchered for an obese slob to trough in a greasy spoon.
Halal dictates animals throats are cut, then they die by bleeding to death.
I agree that the killing of the animal should be the most humane, but damn...... Humans have slaughtered animals for consumption since (before) any records, and that includes cave paintings.
Humans are top of the food chain. We hunt, kill and eat.
A Lion doesn't worry about whether or not the Antelope is dead before it starts tearing it to pieces. We shouldn't have any more care than the Lion. It's only our conscience which dictates we do. It's an animal! If it tastes good, kill the =blanker and then eat it.
Not a very well reasoned argument there. Because it's 'always' happened, we'll just carry on, whether it's right or wrong?
Why shouldn't we care more than the lion? You seem to be suggesting that we shouldn't care if an animal is alive or not before we eat it?!?!?!
You say it's only down to our conscience what we do? What about humility and respect for other living things?
I have more time and respect for animals over some people, especially the sub human scum who seem to think it's funny to abuse animals.
What if there was a life form of greater intelligence than you, that bred you then killed you in a painful disrepectful way, butchered you, and put you in a kebab to be half eaten and thrown in the pavement by a fat useless obese slob?
I don't think you'd want that.
With the greatest of respect, animal abuse is a totally different subject which has no relevance to Halal butchery OR ANY butchery of meat for human consumption, especially when it is being sold by high street names.
And, if I (as a human) wasn't top of the food chain, then I'd be watching my back. As it happens, these 'Aliens' you speak of do not exist, so I'll be fine walking down the pavement.
Anyone here of elder generation ate meat in their youth which was slaughtered in the way Halal meat is slaughtered. It's only recent times that 'procedures' have been in place, generally to the animals detriment. I've worked in a slaughterhouse. :y
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I would suggest that halal slaughter and abuse aren't different things. They are one and the same. If an animal is knowingly slaughtered in a way that isn't as reasonably humane as possible, I would call that abuse.
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I would say yes.
Britain's biggest supermarket chains are selling halal lamb and chicken without telling unsuspecting shoppers.
Those stocking meat slaughtered according to Islamic law include Waitrose, Marks & Spencer, Sainsbury’s, Tesco, Somerfield and the Co-op.
And a Mail on Sunday investigation has found that fast-food chains including Domino’s Pizza, Pizza Hut, KFC, Nando’s and Subway are also using halal meat without telling customers.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1315278/Top-supermarkets-secretly-sell-halal-Sainsburys-Tesco-Waitrose-M-S-dont-tell-meat-ritually-slaughtered.html
>:( >:( >:(
Sorry, but i disagree.
What would be the point, if they dont tell anyone!
They are not going to get any sales by Muslim shoppers, are they?
One of my neighbours is Muslim and i know he pays 'over the top' prices to buy halal meat from a Muslim shop.
The only takeaway shop he uses is Tennessee Chicken (if thats spelt right) because they advertise they use Halal chicken.
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But surely if an animal can be killed more humanely it should be, do you not agree?
Yes animals don't have the same level of intelligence as humans (allegedly!), and their methods of communication aren't as sophisticated, but they still have instinct, they still feel pain, terror, fright and dread. They still have a life and want to live, not be butchered for an obese slob to trough in a greasy spoon.
Halal dictates animals throats are cut, then they die by bleeding to death.
I have to agree with Geoff on this one. :y
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consumers have the power to make supermarkets label the meat accordingly, there are people who would choose meat that had been acquired humanely ie stunned first before slaughter rather than cut and bled to death, given the choice most non muslims would choose non halal......unless it cost a bit more then no one gives a monkey's :y
i would spend a bit more tho, like i do with free range eggs....its a small sacrifice to ease my conscience ;)
it all comes down to money, if supermarkets can get way with supplying meat from one method without anyone caring, then of course they'll follow that path - if yanyone feels strongly about it, refuse to buy meat that isn't labelled - simple, Tesco's would soon have it sorted if it hurt sales :y
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it all comes down to money, if supermarkets can get way with supplying meat from one method without anyone caring, then of course they'll follow that path - if yanyone feels strongly about it, refuse to buy meat that isn't labelled - simple, Tesco's would soon have it sorted if it hurt sales :y
I think that to be an important point JB. :y
In this business sector success is generally measured in market share/nett profit - not ethics. :y
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I pointed this out in a thread on here some months ago so it shouldn't be a surprise to the OP. It has been the case for at least 10 years in my estimation.
Previous discussion (http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1281374820/12#12)
As it happens, Halal slaughter only requires that the animal be alive when its throat is cut so some developed countries' animal welfare organisations have agreed that stunning and killing is OK. So that's how it's done in those countries.
You're never going to get everyone to agree about animal slaughter. It is unpleasant to most people.
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halal meat means you cut the neck and draw the blood of animal..left from the ancient times >:( thats absolutely torture.. >:( >:(
because in old times there were no refrigerator and they believe meat will be tainted with blood :(
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I think meat should be slaughtered in the least stressful way, anything stressful should be clamped down on.
Personally I think Halall is wrong
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The whys and wherefores of the method of execution are secondary, I feel, to the issue of openess and honesty.
The providers are probably of the opinion that if we (that is the non-muslim population) knew the meat was halal, we wouldn't buy it. So they "lie by ommission" to protect their profits as it's cheaper than providing two seperate lines of produce. Not that we'd know which was which if they switched labels anyway!!!
As I have said before ( and no doubt will again ::) ) I will accept the allowances we are all forced to make to muslims and non-christian faiths (bearing in mind we are a supposedly Christian Country) when I can walk down any High Street in Saudi swigging from a bottle of vodka with a bikini clad women on my arm and for that to be acceptable to the indiginous race!
I suppose I should now also be taking bites, between swigs, of a beef sarnie, where the beef was killed according to british slaugter codes, bought in a local Saudi supermarket
.... ain't gonna happpen !
I might add I have no problems with whatever religion anybody is. I don't impose my thoughts and beliefs on them and I expect the same courtesy in return.
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No mention of Pork!
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No mention of Pork!
I could well be wrong but I thought muslims ate pork. 'Tis the Jewish Community that have problems there.
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No mention of Pork!
;D ;D :y
I think we should set up a shop selling Halal Pork Pies ;D
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tbh, with the exception of chicken, the way that abbatoirs kill animals is hardly humane. Due to BSE they are electrocuted with 20k volts in a process which takes about 30-60 secs.
Thats why I feel better eating meat I have hunted and killed myself with a clean head/heart shot :y
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Many moons ago I worked within a slaughterhouse (chickens) and, every Friday, a Rabbi used to come in while they did the killing for the Jewish customers. Apparently the chickens had to be unstunned and a little prayer said over their dying bodies before it was fit for Jewish consumption.
The Rabbi "did his thing" over the first dozen or so, then got fed up and went for tea and bikkes while the run was finished the usual way.
Needless to say all the birds got their kosher certificate!!
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No mention of Pork!
I could well be wrong but I thought muslims ate pork. 'Tis the Jewish Community that have problems there.
nope .. they dont.. but few of them dont care ;D ;D
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Thank you Cem. One of my mates from College was Jewish and loved pork too!
I bet many vegetarians give in to bacon too ;)
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Thank you Cem. One of my mates from College was Jewish and loved pork too!
I bet many vegetarians give in to bacon too ;)
I've been to Tel Aviv a few times (amazing place, incidentally) and it always made me chuckle that the standard response to "So is this Kosher?" was "Weeeelll.. it's not technically not Kosher.. so it's fine" ;D (I'm guessing Orthodox Jews would take a different view, but Tel Aviv is very.. un-religious as a city)
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I have always said and maintain that humans should only eat meat if they have actually killed that type of animal once in their life. We take far too much for granted i am afraid. Bring back home economics perhaps at school ?
Now that would soon sort out whingers and create a lot more veggies.
It won't ever happen as mosty people faint at the sight of blood. Oh and the 'elf and saftey wouldn't allow it..
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I have always said and maintain that humans should only eat meat if they have actually killed that type of animal once in their life. We take far too much for granted i am afraid. Bring back home economics perhaps at school ?
Now that would soon sort out whingers and create a lot more veggies.
It won't ever happen as mosty people faint at the sight of blood. Oh and the 'elf and saftey wouldn't allow it..
Heh, you remember the news when the primary school wanted to send the lamb off for slaughter? Somehow I can't see them being allowed to have students slaughter an animal if they weren't even allowed to know that meat comes from cute fwuffy animals ;D
(As for the rest.. I'll continue to have someone else kill my meat for me thanks - why would I want to get my hands dirty when I can pay someone to do it for me? ;) )
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One of the links was on about a tape recorder doing the job ;D ;D ;D ;D
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I have always said and maintain that humans should only eat meat if they have actually killed that type of animal once in their life..........
;D
I'm afraid that one did make me laugh/wry snigger. ;D
In a previous lifetime, I had a fair old number of callouts to escaped animals from abatoirs including a few mature bulls of a tonne and a half or so plus, at various times. Well placed 7.62 with a quick second to ensure deed done, then the wee 'Egor' type slaughterman did his stuff with a rather large and very sharp knife to ensure the animal was bled as quick as possible. All done once the animals had ran out of town and onto farmers land, I hasten to add.
Meat was still scrap though as the beast was too full of adrenaline to allow the meat to be consumed by humans.
But your comment allows me the pleasure of beef steaks, pork and lamb and a few hands on rabbits, chickens etc whilst rough camping.... ;D :y
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I have always said and maintain that humans should only eat meat if they have actually killed that type of animal once in their life. We take far too much for granted i am afraid. Bring back home economics perhaps at school ?
Now that would soon sort out whingers and create a lot more veggies.
It won't ever happen as mosty people faint at the sight of blood. Oh and the 'elf and saftey wouldn't allow it..
I'm with you on this one Varche.
I watched the 'Kill It, Cook It, Eat It' programs. There were too many people who didn't dare have any part in the process from farm to plate, too squeamish to look, and believe it or not they were crying! They still ate the meat though! Bloody crocodile tears.
If you're not prepared to kill eat, you shouldn't eat it. Obviously practicalities get in the way, but in principle. The nation is full of softies.
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To me that's a bit like saying.. I don't know - that you shouldn't use a flushing toilet unless you're prepared to bail out a tank full of human effluent by hand..
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To me that's a bit like saying.. I don't know - that you shouldn't use a flushing toilet unless you're prepared to bail out a tank full of human effluent by hand..
It's nothing like that at all. We're talking taking a life here. I don't know how you reasoned that out.
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The life of an animal, bred for eating and no other purpose, which is going to reach one and only one end.. it's not going to live happily ever after in a field somewhere, nor is it going to bound around the forest only to be shot in the head by a hunter - it's off to the abattoir for it, whether or not I've been out there and wrestled a bear to the ground and cut out it's heart like a good hunter..
Why should I have had to have killed something in order to eat something that was going to get slaughtered anyway?
Why should I have to go to the trouble of killing something when I can just go out and buy it - that's what I do my well paid job for, after all, so that someone else can do the dirty work for me..
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so you have no respect for the life or feelings of other living things then?
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::) I presume you're a vegan, then.. ::)
Does a lion have 'respect' for the gazelles feelings when it tears it's throat out?
Would it give me greater 'respect' in your eyes if I'd shot the thing in the head myself? I'm not quite sure what the logic is, there, really, other than it being some antiquated view of 'being a man'.
I've eaten everything from regular old cow to horse, snake, and I'd quite happily try dog if I was in the right country. I've watched a snake be slit from stem to stern to drain it's blood - and then drank snake penis wine, and snake blood, snake bile and snake poison. I've gutted fish, and so on.
Incidentally, anyone looking for humane (not quite sure how this can be humane, but..) slaughter of animals - I presume you never eat mussles or lobster? (Both of which should be cooked while alive, one of which has to be) Or oysters (best eaten still living)... Or do they not count in this odd hierarchy of what deserves humane slaughter and what doesn't..
Incidentally Geoff, I can see you're trying to lead me into saying that I have no respect for the lives of humans, and I don't appreciate that at all. On that basis, I think this will be the last thing I say on this particular topic.
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::) I presume you're a vegan, then.. ::)
Does a lion have 'respect' for the gazelles feelings when it tears it's throat out?
Would it give me greater 'respect' in your eyes if I'd shot the thing in the head myself? I'm not quite sure what the logic is, there, really, other than it being some antiquated view of 'being a man'.
I've eaten everything from regular old cow to horse, snake, and I'd quite happily try dog if I was in the right country. I've watched a snake be slit from stem to stern to drain it's blood - and then drank snake penis wine, and snake blood, snake bile and snake poison. I've gutted fish, and so on.
Incidentally, anyone looking for humane (not quite sure how this can be humane, but..) slaughter of animals - I presume you never eat mussles or lobster? (Both of which should be cooked while alive, one of which has to be) Or oysters (best eaten still living)... Or do they not count in this odd hierarchy of what deserves humane slaughter and what doesn't..
Incidentally Geoff, I can see you're trying to lead me into saying that I have no respect for the lives of humans, and I don't appreciate that at all. On that basis, I think this will be the last thing I say on this particular topic.
I'm not trying to lead you into saying anything. Every man speaks his own mind. If you want to know something, ask the person concerned.
As for an antiquated view of being a man, it seems you're the one who needs dragging back to 2010. Trying to put out some sort of masculine image by boasting what you've seen and done. Quite juvenile, my dad's bigger than your dad.
Nor do I agree with lobsters being boiled alive as you mention. And no I haven't eaten lobster. I'd rather boil a chef alive than let him boil a live animal to death. It is irrelevant if I am a vegan or not.
By asking if a lion has respect for its prey, in an attempt to justify your argument is ludicrous. I like to think of myself as somewhat more advanced than a lion, with intelligence, compassion and many other positive qualities. You however, seem to be comparing yourself to a creature of low intelligence.
It looks like you've taken the huff, by saying you won't be responding anymore. Why are you not responding? Because you don't like what you hear. Most of the problems exist in the world for these reasons, apathy, ignorance and disinterest.
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As for 'odd hierarchy' of what does and doesn't deserve humane treatment. You'll have to enlighten me as to what you mean by this.
Everything deserves humane treatment. Although I'd question the word humane after seeing some 'humans' actions.
Like I said before, I value animals over some humans due to their behaviour.
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Sigh. Who was boasting? The angle of the thread seemed to be that you couldn't eat meat unless you were willing to get your hands dirty - I was pointing out that I had and that I'm not squeamish about it as seemed to be the indication ("The nation is full of softies," I believe were your words)
Anyway, arguing on the Internet is kinda stupid..
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why is having a debate on the internet stupid?
Bit of a backtrack there it appears ;D
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i would be really supprised if the co-op(who i work for incidentally) sells halal meet,as the co-op is a ethical provider/shop and the killing of halal meet is hardly ethical..i know at one point they did look at it but decided against it that was a couple of years ago now..
i mean they got rid of a service provider as they where owned (at the time ) by U.T.C the guys who make the black hawk helicopter...a weapon of war is that ethical??...no :y
but as for original question i would say yes deffo... :y
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There is a bit of thread-drift here. Of course, there are many different viewpoints on animal welfare, but my original post begged the question whether consumers should be told whether meat is halal or not. Then, those with views on methods of slaughter would, as BJ noted, be able to make a choice as to whether to purchase or not. In my view, it is quite wrong for supermarkets to specifically label some food as halal or kosher for certain consumers, yet supply the same meat (i.e by slaughter method) to everyone else without telling them. >:(
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Just my 2 bob's worth does anyone give a monkeys how fish are killed,nope so whats the problem.
ive been on shoots where the deer is hung then it's throat is slit somtimes it's not been a clean shot.
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Just my 2 bob's worth does anyone give a monkeys how fish are killed,nope so whats the problem.
ive been on shoots where the deer is hung then it's throat is slit somtimes it's not been a clean shot.
yes actually, they are crushed and suffocated
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As previously asked .. and ignored it seems .... just why would they do this ???
Halal and kosher meat costs more to "produce"; if not labelled halal or kosher the "target" for those meats would not buy it, there is no economic justification that I can see for "producing" something at a more expensive price, then selling it at the lower price.
Methinks the Mail is just trying to make up headlines .... again
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don't worry mate, my posts get ignored all the time hahaha ;)
halal meat, stoning women, honour killings..... and our country bows down to these backward and barbaric people.
world's crazy!!!!!
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This is a ludicrous argument. Killing isn't humane, however you do it. Most of humanity are meat eaters (or would be if they could afford meat). It isn't normal for an omnivore to abstain from meat (as I told my wife earlier today when she was moaning about the fact that a restaurant she is going to only has two vegetarian options on the menu).
Vegetarians apart, the rest of us enjoy eating dead animals, and the majority would prefer that someone else do the slaughtering and butchering. And fishing and gutting for that matter. Unless you have religious reasons for preferring one form of slaughter over another, I can't see that it matters how the animal was killed. To get your Wiener Schnitzel, somebody had to kill a calf. Whether it took 10 seconds or 60 seconds to die ultimately makes no difference - it's dead now, and it wouldn't have been if you hadn't wanted your meat.
On the other hand, if you hadn't wanted your meat, the calf wouldn't even have had an existence in all probability. Meat animals are raised to be slaughtered for market, and if we, the customers, didn't want the meat, no one would breed the animals. They don't just roam wild, for the most part.
I'd be off to cook myself a nice piece of rump steak right now, if I could afford to buy one. It wouldn't be kosher, because Jews don't eat meat from the hind-quarters of animals, even when they are traditionally slaughtered, which it wouldn't be in my case, as I live in Suffolk and there isn't a kosher butcher within miles. Come to think of it, there aren't that many other Jews near here, either. :) :) :)
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yes entwood certain meats cost more to produce, IF the letter of the law is followed, i however suspect that it isn't, especially halal, when people get pound signs in their eyes
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To get back to the original post and question posed, I'm afraid that I really have no thoughts one way or the other. I am a meat eater. Once its packaged for sale then, as long as poison or other substance thats harmfull to my health has not been used, I will happily cooka nd eat as and when I want.
And yes, I enjoy seafood, mussels and lobster/crab specifically included....
Bottom line is, not bothered either way...
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As previously asked .. and ignored it seems .... just why would they do this ???
Halal and kosher meat costs more to "produce"; if not labelled halal or kosher the "target" for those meats would not buy it, there is no economic justification that I can see for "producing" something at a more expensive price, then selling it at the lower price.
Methinks the Mail is just trying to make up headlines .... again
E, I'm not sure you read through the whole article for, near the bottom, Dr R. North, a specialist, notes the following:
Once there were small, specialist kosher and halal producers, but now the trade has been taken over by industrial concerns. To cover the increasing demand for halal meat, these corporate slaughterhouses have either had to introduce halal methods or buy in halal meat from specialist butchers.
The choice is either to introduce a separate production line or to take the cost-cutting option of having just one production line. But in this one-size-fits-all world, it’s not the most humane and dignified method of slaughter – the one enshrined in British and EU law – that wins out.
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As previously asked .. and ignored it seems .... just why would they do this ???
Halal and kosher meat costs more to "produce"; if not labelled halal or kosher the "target" for those meats would not buy it, there is no economic justification that I can see for "producing" something at a more expensive price, then selling it at the lower price.
Methinks the Mail is just trying to make up headlines .... again
E, I'm not sure you read through the whole article for, near the bottom, Dr R. North, a specialist, notes the following:
Once there were small, specialist kosher and halal producers, but now the trade has been taken over by industrial concerns. To cover the increasing demand for halal meat, these corporate slaughterhouses have either had to introduce halal methods or buy in halal meat from specialist butchers.
The choice is either to introduce a separate production line or to take the cost-cutting option of having just one production line. But in this one-size-fits-all world, it’s not the most humane and dignified method of slaughter – the one enshrined in British and EU law – that wins out.
I did read that Nick .. but I have a passionate hatred (and dis-belief) of lines like ... "Dr R. North, a specialist, notes the following..." much the same as "A Government spokesperson" or "our defence correspondent"
Having been in the Forces for many years .. I know that many of these "sources" are simply overheard conversations in pubs. I would also ask, what (if he DOES exist) makes Dr North .. "a specialist" ; and is it actually in this field ?? (if a "field" for slaughter exists .... ) :)
Cynical ?? yup .. thats me .. everytime :)
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Thats it then sorted. We don't give a damn where meat comes from, how it was raised or even how it was killed.
Like the kids of today say. Milk? where does it come from? Well a supermarket , stupid!
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This is a ludicrous argument. Killing isn't humane, however you do it. Most of humanity are meat eaters (or would be if they could afford meat). It isn't normal for an omnivore to abstain from meat (as I told my wife earlier today when she was moaning about the fact that a restaurant she is going to only has two vegetarian options on the menu).
Vegetarians apart, the rest of us enjoy eating dead animals, and the majority would prefer that someone else do the slaughtering and butchering. And fishing and gutting for that matter. Unless you have religious reasons for preferring one form of slaughter over another, I can't see that it matters how the animal was killed. To get your Wiener Schnitzel, somebody had to kill a calf. Whether it took 10 seconds or 60 seconds to die ultimately makes no difference - it's dead now, and it wouldn't have been if you hadn't wanted your meat.
On the other hand, if you hadn't wanted your meat, the calf wouldn't even have had an existence in all probability. Meat animals are raised to be slaughtered for market, and if we, the customers, didn't want the meat, no one would breed the animals. They don't just roam wild, for the most part.
I'd be off to cook myself a nice piece of rump steak right now, if I could afford to buy one. It wouldn't be kosher, because Jews don't eat meat from the hind-quarters of animals, even when they are traditionally slaughtered, which it wouldn't be in my case, as I live in Suffolk and there isn't a kosher butcher within miles. Come to think of it, there aren't that many other Jews near here, either. :) :) :)
This shows a little bit of ignorance i think. Yes the sole purpose of animals that are raised on farms etc is to provide food stuffs for us and our own needs. But it is still a life.
If someone is barbaric and cruel, they would say it doesn't matter how it is killed. Its still a living entity that feels pain and fright, and as daft as what some animals are, alot of them still know the end is coming, so much so they shake uncontrollably and sh*t themselves.
Yes killing isn't humane, but it can be (and should be IMO) as quick and as pain free as possible. Respect should be given to the animal, they are magnificent creatures, that die to feed the human race, alot of which are selfish self serving idiots IMO. :-/waiting for the responses to this!
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Yes the sole purpose of animals that are raised on farms etc is to provide food stuffs for us and our own needs. But it is still a life.
If someone is barbaric and cruel, they would say it doesn't matter how it is killed. Its still a living entity that feels pain and fright, and as daft as what some animals are, alot of them still know the end is coming, so much so they shake uncontrollably and sh*t themselves.
Yes killing isn't humane, but it can be (and should be IMO) as quick and as pain free as possible. Respect should be given to the animal, they are magnificent creatures, that die to feed the human race, alot of which are selfish self serving idiots IMO. :-/waiting for the responses to this!
For the most part I must again agree with Geoff here.
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We seem to have split into four groups here:
Those who don't like the thought of eating halal because of the cruelty aspect of the slaughter, those who don't like the religious connotations, those who don't eat meat anyway and those who couldn't care how their food was killed.
But Nick was only asking whether we should be informed of how the meat was slaughtered and I think we should.
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As previously asked .. and ignored it seems .... just why would they do this ???
Halal and kosher meat costs more to "produce"; if not labelled halal or kosher the "target" for those meats would not buy it, there is no economic justification that I can see for "producing" something at a more expensive price, then selling it at the lower price.
Methinks the Mail is just trying to make up headlines .... again
E, I'm not sure you read through the whole article for, near the bottom, Dr R. North, a specialist, notes the following:
Once there were small, specialist kosher and halal producers, but now the trade has been taken over by industrial concerns. To cover the increasing demand for halal meat, these corporate slaughterhouses have either had to introduce halal methods or buy in halal meat from specialist butchers.
The choice is either to introduce a separate production line or to take the cost-cutting option of having just one production line. But in this one-size-fits-all world, it’s not the most humane and dignified method of slaughter – the one enshrined in British and EU law – that wins out.
Perhaps it is killed ordinarily and they lie about the HalHal
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This is a ludicrous argument. Killing isn't humane, however you do it. Most of humanity are meat eaters (or would be if they could afford meat). It isn't normal for an omnivore to abstain from meat (as I told my wife earlier today when she was moaning about the fact that a restaurant she is going to only has two vegetarian options on the menu).
Vegetarians apart, the rest of us enjoy eating dead animals, and the majority would prefer that someone else do the slaughtering and butchering. And fishing and gutting for that matter. Unless you have religious reasons for preferring one form of slaughter over another, I can't see that it matters how the animal was killed. To get your Wiener Schnitzel, somebody had to kill a calf. Whether it took 10 seconds or 60 seconds to die ultimately makes no difference - it's dead now, and it wouldn't have been if you hadn't wanted your meat.
On the other hand, if you hadn't wanted your meat, the calf wouldn't even have had an existence in all probability. Meat animals are raised to be slaughtered for market, and if we, the customers, didn't want the meat, no one would breed the animals. They don't just roam wild, for the most part.
I'd be off to cook myself a nice piece of rump steak right now, if I could afford to buy one. It wouldn't be kosher, because Jews don't eat meat from the hind-quarters of animals, even when they are traditionally slaughtered, which it wouldn't be in my case, as I live in Suffolk and there isn't a kosher butcher within miles. Come to think of it, there aren't that many other Jews near here, either. :) :) :)
Hmm the Jewish people I know eat whatever they want including ham & bacon, and one lad has not been done.
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Most of our meat is from a local butcher, non butcher comes AFAIK from a large meat procesor which is not Halhal.
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Most of our meat is from a local butcher, non butcher comes AFAIK from a large meat procesor which is not Halhal.
You mean they still exist? ;)
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don't worry mate, my posts get ignored all the time hahaha ;)
halal meat, stoning women, honour killings..... and our country bows down to these backward and barbaric people.
world's crazy!!!!!
with you on this one!
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This is a ludicrous argument. Killing isn't humane, however you do it. Most of humanity are meat eaters (or would be if they could afford meat). It isn't normal for an omnivore to abstain from meat (as I told my wife earlier today when she was moaning about the fact that a restaurant she is going to only has two vegetarian options on the menu).
Vegetarians apart, the rest of us enjoy eating dead animals, and the majority would prefer that someone else do the slaughtering and butchering. And fishing and gutting for that matter. Unless you have religious reasons for preferring one form of slaughter over another, I can't see that it matters how the animal was killed. To get your Wiener Schnitzel, somebody had to kill a calf. Whether it took 10 seconds or 60 seconds to die ultimately makes no difference - it's dead now, and it wouldn't have been if you hadn't wanted your meat.
On the other hand, if you hadn't wanted your meat, the calf wouldn't even have had an existence in all probability. Meat animals are raised to be slaughtered for market, and if we, the customers, didn't want the meat, no one would breed the animals. They don't just roam wild, for the most part.
I'd be off to cook myself a nice piece of rump steak right now, if I could afford to buy one. It wouldn't be kosher, because Jews don't eat meat from the hind-quarters of animals, even when they are traditionally slaughtered, which it wouldn't be in my case, as I live in Suffolk and there isn't a kosher butcher within miles. Come to think of it, there aren't that many other Jews near here, either. :) :) :)
This shows a little bit of ignorance i think. Yes the sole purpose of animals that are raised on farms etc is to provide food stuffs for us and our own needs. But it is still a life.
If someone is barbaric and cruel, they would say it doesn't matter how it is killed. Its still a living entity that feels pain and fright, and as daft as what some animals are, alot of them still know the end is coming, so much so they shake uncontrollably and sh*t themselves.
Yes killing isn't humane, but it can be (and should be IMO) as quick and as pain free as possible. Respect should be given to the animal, they are magnificent creatures, that die to feed the human race, alot of which are selfish self serving idiots IMO. :-/waiting for the responses to this!
I'm not sure I like to be patronised, but ignoring that, in what way I am I showing ignorance?
My point is that I consider it far worse to terminate the existence of a creature than to cause it pain in the act of terminating it's existence. I know that in order to provide my meat, animals have to be killed, and although I'm not completely happy about this, I accept it.
I think that if I could continue to live the life I lead now, but had to kill meat animals myself, I'd become a vegetarian. I also think that in the (highly improbable) eventuality that I was in a survival situation where I had no alternative but to kill animals for food or starve to death, I would have no compunction whatsoever in killing anything I could kill by whatever means I could contrive.
I don't think I am either barbaric or cruel. The comment I made about it not mattering how the animal is killed needs to be taken in the context of the discussion, which is to say, the comparison between religious ritual slaughter and "humane" slaughter. I do not generally condone the torture of animals, but I am not sentimental about them either. And I value the life of any human being, "selfish self serving idiot" or otherwise, above that of any animal, "magnificent creature" or otherwise.
I have no experience of slaughterhouses, so I stand open to corrrection on what I am about to say. It is my understanding that in this country, and many others, good practice ensures that animals are not subjected to the sight of other animals being killed. This is partly for humane reasons, and partly for commercial reasons, because inducing fear in livestock releases hormones which reduce the quality of the meat. I doubt very much whether any animal has experienced more fear bcause it has worked out that it will have it's throat cut rather than be stunned or have its brain destroyed (if it is lucky) by the use of a captive bolt gun. It just smells the blood of the animals that went before, and it's survival instincts take over.
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Hmm the Jewish people I know eat whatever they want including ham & bacon, and one lad has not been done.
You obviously haven't met the right sort of Jews!
As the "done" son of a Jewish father who enjoyed bacon and eggs for his breakfast every day for as long as I can remember, and who spent the first 28 years of his life living in North London, I can assure you that there are many people who still keep a kosher home.
And that's not counting the ultra-Orthodox sects who dress like 17th century Easter European villagers and drive elderly Volvo estates, which are the only cars that give them enough headroom for their hats.
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don't worry mate, my posts get ignored all the time hahaha ;)
halal meat, stoning women, honour killings..... and our country bows down to these backward and barbaric people.
world's crazy!!!!!
yes.. do us a favor, kill them all ;D ;D :y
seriously sometimes I feel like that >:(
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I have read all this, and was'nt going to add any comment. I feel now, that some is warranted.
My tuppence worth is:
As a man who hunts, shoots, fishes, and regularly eats what he catches/shoots I adhere to the one maxim my gunnery instructor told me many years ago.
"If you MUST kill an animal for food, you must ensure it neither suffers in any way, nor knows that its imminent death is about to happen. You should be swift, humane, and have total respect for the beautiful animal that has given up its life so that you can survive, and celebrate its death with the utmost reverence"
ANYTHING that allows an animal to slowly die, or suffer pain in any way, or even know it is about to die is barbarous, cruel, and whatever the credo or religon that requests the manner of death is morally wrong.
This is only my opinion, and feel free to criticise in any way, but I believe that we DEFINATELY should know if an animal has suffered in its death, we then have the informed CHOICE whether we buy the meat or not.
Thankyou for understanding.
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I have read all this, and was'nt going to add any comment. I feel now, that some is warranted.
My tuppence worth is:
As a man who hunts, shoots, fishes, and regularly eats what he catches/shoots I adhere to the one maxim my gunnery instructor told me many years ago.
"If you MUST kill an animal for food, you must ensure it neither suffers in any way, nor knows that its imminent death is about to happen. You should be swift, humane, and have total respect for the beautiful animal that has given up its life so that you can survive, and celebrate its death with the utmost reverence"
ANYTHING that allows an animal to slowly die, or suffer pain in any way, or even know it is about to die is barbarous, cruel, and whatever the credo or religon that requests the manner of death is morally wrong.
This is only my opinion, and feel free to criticise in any way, but I believe that we DEFINATELY should know if an animal has suffered in its death, we then have the informed CHOICE whether we buy the meat or not.
Thankyou for understanding.
:y :y :y :y
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I have read all this, and was'nt going to add any comment. I feel now, that some is warranted.
My tuppence worth is:
As a man who hunts, shoots, fishes, and regularly eats what he catches/shoots I adhere to the one maxim my gunnery instructor told me many years ago.
"If you MUST kill an animal for food, you must ensure it neither suffers in any way, nor knows that its imminent death is about to happen. You should be swift, humane, and have total respect for the beautiful animal that has given up its life so that you can survive, and celebrate its death with the utmost reverence"
ANYTHING that allows an animal to slowly die, or suffer pain in any way, or even know it is about to die is barbarous, cruel, and whatever the credo or religon that requests the manner of death is morally wrong.
This is only my opinion, and feel free to criticise in any way, but I believe that we DEFINATELY should know if an animal has suffered in its death, we then have the informed CHOICE whether we buy the meat or not.
Thankyou for understanding.
spot on son ;) ;)
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To answer OP's question... definately yes! however given the deceitful nature of commerce & industry we're often denied any real choice other than absolute abstention. The term vegetable oil used in just about everything we consume, often means 'palm oil' the demand for which entails the destruction of rain forest & killing of many orangutans :( There's nothing I can really add to thread that hasn't been addressed, so this is how I see it; totally agree with sixstring's above post & the world definately needs more people like geoffr70... nb. can't agree on every point, certainly wouldn't condone cooking the chef ;D but know only a handful of people that share geoffr70's depth of humanity with regard to the treatment of the animal kingdom :y I can't live up to this because I do eat animal produce, but do try to stick to free range where possible.
Just a note about about 'halal' meat... the true islamic definition requires the meat to be consumed within a short period of time from slaughter (I think its 24hrs but not certain) which means that so called 'halal' meat is often 'haram' due to importation. Many muslims do not seem to question this, yet Islamic law is unequivocal about this being absolutely necessary ::)
don't get me started on Islamic law >:(
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Oh, and it's not just The Mail making up this story.
"Twickenham and Wembley Stadiums and Guy's and St Thomas' Hospital admitted they served it without telling diners."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-11375523
>:( >:( >:(
We have a right to know.
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/peterwedderburn/100054449/halal-meat-we-should-know-when-were-eating-it/
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totally agree nickbat 100%
If the tables were turned and a halal butchers were found (hypothetically ;)) to be selling non-halal produce there would be an absolute furore!!!
We all have a right to know who's hands we are putting our money in, what we have purchased & what we consume :exclamation
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totally agree nickbat 100%
If the tables were turned and a halal butchers were found (hypothetically ;)) to be selling non-halal produce there would be an absolute furore!!!
We all have a right to know who's hands we are putting our money in, what we have purchased & what we consume :exclamation
Thansk for the supporting comments, 24_valve. it is amazing that we are bombarded with labelling telling us how products are "organic" and "locally produced", yet we are kept in the dark over this.
The same must surely apply to goods manufactured in "sweat shops" by underage children.
We have a right to know. :y
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Yw nickbat :y
The same must surely apply to goods manufactured in "sweat shops" by underage children.
Absolutely!!!
I try to catch 'dispatches' when I can... they seem to do quite a good job of exposing some of the abhorrent practises that link directly to the so called reputable high st retailers :(
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[size=14]geoffr70[/size] you might find this interesting... :y
http://cathdev.tripod.com/francis.html
It's a bit off topic so if anyone is offended by it then just remember your name isn't geoffr70 and don't start ;D
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This was all over the wireless a week or two ago. I guess folk have a right to know if it matters to them on religious or compassionate grounds. If you are religious this is yet another problem to add to war, terrorism etc. Religious folk are sometimes too easily offended, resulting in actions that put football hooliganism to shame. By the same count those protesting on compassionate grounds should turn veggie in which case most of said animals would'nt exist in the first place as there would be no point in their existence. Sometimes life is unpleasant, can't be perfect all the time & i see very little real difference in the methods of slaughter. We all watch the natural food chain on telly & what animals do to each other, shall we ban that as well? Properly killed Halal meat is done by a trained slaughter man & the job is done in seconds with as little suffering as possible as is conventional stunning but there are rogues on both sides so i think there's nothing in it realistically.
I am an animal lover(sometimes prefer animals to people) & deplore cruelty, neglect, abuse in any shape or form so please don't condemn me as not caring but i feel this topic is best left alone. Halal meat is already being bought & eaten by unsuspecting punters so the damage is done. It would take so much regulation, invention of non jobs by those who've attended a course, watched a dvd & are now experts & of course they'll want paying for the privelege which will push the price of roasting joints, steaks, chicken breasts for curries, sausages, burgers, mince ever upward then folk will gripe about the inflated prices & the few real butcher shops we have left will close.
Be careful what you wish for!!!!!! ::)
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This was all over the wireless a week or two ago. I guess folk have a right to know if it matters to them on religious or compassionate grounds. If you are religious this is yet another problem to add to war, terrorism etc. Religious folk are sometimes too easily offended, resulting in actions that put football hooliganism to shame. By the same count those protesting on compassionate grounds should turn veggie in which case most of said animals would'nt exist in the first place as there would be no point in their existence. Sometimes life is unpleasant, can't be perfect all the time & i see very little real difference in the methods of slaughter. We all watch the natural food chain on telly & what animals do to each other, shall we ban that as well? Properly killed Halal meat is done by a trained slaughter man & the job is done in seconds with as little suffering as possible as is conventional stunning but there are rogues on both sides so i think there's nothing in it realistically.
I am an animal lover(sometimes prefer animals to people) & deplore cruelty, neglect, abuse in any shape or form so please don't condemn me as not caring but i feel this topic is best left alone. Halal meat is already being bought & eaten by unsuspecting punters so the damage is done. It would take so much regulation, invention of non jobs by those who've attended a course, watched a dvd & are now experts & of course they'll want paying for the privelege which will push the price of roasting joints, steaks, chicken breasts for curries, sausages, burgers, mince ever upward then folk will gripe about the inflated prices & the few real butcher shops we have left will close.
Be careful what you wish for!!!!!! ::)
Well said Guy.... :y Now bring back the Bus thread, far more exciting than this drivel.... ::) ::) ::)
Say what you like, I wont be offended over such a thread, as with global warming....... :)
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Amigo your views are as important as anyone elses so I'm not gonna go off topic and argue your points... just a couple of things that I couldn't help noticing...
If you are religious this is yet another problem to add to war, terrorism etc.
Very generalised view imo, never heard of a buddhist monk involved in terrorism? might be wrong though, who knows :-/ possibly more to do with radicalisation, politics & fundamentalism ;)
those protesting on compassionate grounds should turn veggie in which case most of said animals would'nt exist in the first place as there would be no point in their existence
Followed by....................................
I am an animal lover (sometimes prefer animals to people) & deplore cruelty, neglect, abuse in any shape or form
There's a good reason for their existance... One day you might feel so bitter that you go off people entirely!
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Amigo your views are as important as anyone elses so I'm not gonna go off topic and argue your points... just a couple of things that I couldn't help noticing...
If you are religious this is yet another problem to add to war, terrorism etc.
Very generalised view imo, never heard of a buddhist monk involved in terrorism? might be wrong though, who knows :-/ possibly more to do with radicalisation, politics & fundamentalism ;)
those protesting on compassionate grounds should turn veggie in which case most of said animals would'nt exist in the first place as there would be no point in their existence
I am an animal lover (sometimes prefer animals to people) & deplore cruelty, neglect, abuse in any shape or form
There's a good reason for their existance... One day you might feel so bitter that you go off people entirely!
Yes i am generalizing & no i've never gone toe to toe with a bhuddist monk but let's face it religion does cause a few upsets, no denying that. Regarding cows/sheep/pigs if we did'nt eat them as god/darwin/mother nature etc. intended there would be no herds, hence no fields then farmers who are stuggling at best. The whole country will turn into retail park clones, that's already started & the pattern continues...(sadly) Do you want to live in a clinical Milton Keynes world with no countryside? Should we ever stop farming our own meat we'd only import it & still eat it. Once again the price would go up & the quality would go down. We have to farm.
Yes i prefer pet animals to people sometimes. We could take a leaf out of their books. They are mostly carnivores & as such exist happily on said diet. Animals don't start wars & are devoid of religion. They simply live as they're supposed to without unnecessary complications or deluded influences. I believe we should too. It's just how things are. Sadly those who cannot distinguish between idealsm & realism keep throwing a spanner in the works of what is already cast in stone & will never change...Why should it?
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Should we ever stop farming our own meat we'd only import it & still eat it
No, not at all... and I'm all for the countryside! Sadly most halal meat doesn't come from our Great British countryside and won't be slaughtered according british standards, (not that our standards are necessarily humane) which is why we should have the right to know what we're buying... I think this was the OP's general point... nothing to do with religion as far as I can see, but I can only speak for myself :y
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Amigo you seem to be suggesting that the sole reason for the existence of animals is for humans to eat. I don't agree with this, and IMO it reflects the sickening arrogance that sone members of the human race have, especially towards animals.
Yes we live in a developed and complex Eco system, engineered somewhat by humans, but it is my view that this evolved, there was no intelligent design or creation, therefore the existence of animals is for life itself, the same reason why humans exist. So they don't exist purely for our consumption. We happen to be at the top of the food chain (for want of a better expression), that's just the way it happened.
Animals have a right to life the same as us, as said just because they aren't as intelligent doesn't mean they should be treated any worse. It is their planet and their home aswell. When a surfer gets chewed by a shark, it's a shame. I don't want it to happen, but that's the nature of the beast, and if you venture into its territory, that's what you expect. It shouldn't be hunted down and killed just because humans want to surf. The same goes for man eating big cats etc, when humans encroach on their area.
I have a pet dog. Even the word pet implies it is only their for our benefit, for us to gain satisfaction in petting it. I regard her as a member of the family, and would risk my life without question to protect her. I have a better bond with her than most people, just because she is a dog and not human doesn't lessen her worth.
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Amigo you seem to be suggesting that the sole reason for the existence of animals is for humans to eat. I don't agree with this, and IMO it reflects the sickening arrogance that sone members of the human race have, especially towards animals.
Yes we live in a developed and complex Eco system, engineered somewhat by humans, but it is my view that this evolved, there was no intelligent design or creation, therefore the existence of animals is for life itself, the same reason why humans exist. So they don't exist purely for our consumption. We happen to be at the top of the food chain (for want of a better expression), that's just the way it happened.
Animals have a right to life the same as us, as said just because they aren't as intelligent doesn't mean they should be treated any worse. It is their planet and their home aswell. When a surfer gets chewed by a shark, it's a shame. I don't want it to happen, but that's the nature of the beast, and if you venture into its territory, that's what you expect. It shouldn't be hunted down and killed just because humans want to surf. The same goes for man eating big cats etc, when humans encroach on their area.
I have a pet dog. Even the word pet implies it is only their for our benefit, for us to gain satisfaction in petting it. I regard her as a member of the family, and would risk my life without question to protect her. I have a better bond with her than most people, just because she is a dog and not human doesn't lessen her worth.
With you on the shark bit, thier territory if i surf & get a leg chewed off or worse fair go. No i'd never eat a pet of course not but herd farmed livestock are bred for our consumption & let's face it most of us "consume" don't blame me for that. If we did'nt "consume" herds & farms would'nt exist. Not fair to say i think all animals are here to be eaten. don't put words into my mouth, i never said that. God i hate being second guessed. You argue like a wife for crying out loud be a bloke. When did you last see some one walk thier pet pig/cow/sheep in the park? It's a simple point. Stop trying to pick round it. We eat meat. Halal meat is a religious thing like it or not. Not my opinion it just is.
Who cares when it's on the plate? MOST OF YOU EAT IT.
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Thanks for your comments 24 valve!
I agree with 24 valve and nickbat with regard to children working in sweatshops, but, one could argue that at least they have jobs. Please bear with me!
Yes, capitalism isn't perfect by any means, these people have jobs to support themselves (just). If we paid more the greedy multi national companies will swallow it up. But I suppose all systems are open yo abusive due to the failings of human beings. Not saying i'm perfect.
It's taking a hell of a long time but eventually the wealth and living standards across the world sill be alot more evenly shared and balanced than now. Take China, their increasing standard of living, means they need more money. They sell stuff to us, the price goes up, we have less money. A very crude way of putting it I know, but that's what I think could happen across the globe.
Capitalism is open to abuse, just as totalitarianism is, and communism, and socialism, where the 'leaders' still have the best of everything. At least capitalism encourages enterprise, gives people drive and motivation and rewards hard work. Not saying it's perfect.
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No amigo I'm not putting words in your mouth at all. I don't argue like a woman or a wife or whatever it was you said. I live by a set of standard that I don't deviate from, especially not to satisfy my own greed or wants.
You are obviously still missing my entire point. I can only encourage you to read it again. You are saying herds are there only for our consumption, and making the distinction between herd/farm animals, and pets.
I have made no such distinction. I liken them. They all have a life. The only difference is, is that we selfishly choose to use different animals in different ways that are more useful to us. Cows to eat, dogs to work and pet etc, as an example.
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I have a pet dog. Even the word pet implies it is only their for our benefit, for us to gain satisfaction in petting it. I regard her as a member of the family, and would risk my life without question to protect her. I have a better bond with her than most people, just because she is a dog and not human doesn't lessen her worth.
Just out of interest, what do you feed your pet dog on?
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Right now I only read up to the end of page 3, Geoff is talking complete sense as is Holy Count and Nickbat. No way would I buy the meat if I knew it was Halal meat. I will not be forced in what is supposedly a British country to eat meat that is for the Muslim way of life. Not only do I think it's totally wrong the way they go about killing the animal, why should I? I am English citizen in Britain not a Muslim citizen in Islam. If they do it over there that's down to them, I still don't agree with it, but that's their country and in their country do things their way.
Over here on the other hand it's our (British) country and we do things the way we should do them, but we're not allowed to do this because we've become so over populated with Muslims, we're starting to do things their way. If we moved over there I'd guarantee that they wouldn't start selling meat killed in what I class as the correct way. It's all totally wrong and we're being forced into being very PC and being forced into believing that the Muslim way is the right way. Well I personally wouldn't ever consider being a Muslim, if people think that's racist then, well think what you like, but would a Muslim consider being a Christian. I think not.
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I've heard it said that Homo Sapiens evolved as a Vegetarian hence our very long gut system (circa 40') in order to give food time to be digested
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Del Boy,I agree with you 100%,as you say if you were in a muslim country you would not get the option.
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Right now I only read up to the end of page 3, Geoff is talking complete sense as is Holy Count and Nickbat. No way would I buy the meat if I knew it was Halal meat. I will not be forced in what is supposedly a British country to eat meat that is for the Muslim way of life. Not only do I think it's totally wrong the way they go about killing the animal, why should I? I am English citizen in Britain not a Muslim citizen in Islam. If they do it over there that's down to them, I still don't agree with it, but that's their country and in their country do things their way.
Over here on the other hand it's our (British) country and we do things the way we should do them, but we're not allowed to do this because we've become so over populated with Muslims, we're starting to do things their way. If we moved over there I'd guarantee that they wouldn't start selling meat killed in what I class as the correct way. It's all totally wrong and we're being forced into being very PC and being forced into believing that the Muslim way is the right way. Well I personally wouldn't ever consider being a Muslim, if people think that's racist then, well think what you like, but would a Muslim consider being a Christian. I think not.
I could not have worded it better :y Well done Del Boy
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Right now I only read up to the end of page 3, Geoff is talking complete sense as is Holy Count and Nickbat. No way would I buy the meat if I knew it was Halal meat. I will not be forced in what is supposedly a British country to eat meat that is for the Muslim way of life. Not only do I think it's totally wrong the way they go about killing the animal, why should I? I am English citizen in Britain not a Muslim citizen in Islam. If they do it over there that's down to them, I still don't agree with it, but that's their country and in their country do things their way.
Over here on the other hand it's our (British) country and we do things the way we should do them, but we're not allowed to do this because we've become so over populated with Muslims, we're starting to do things their way. If we moved over there I'd guarantee that they wouldn't start selling meat killed in what I class as the correct way. It's all totally wrong and we're being forced into being very PC and being forced into believing that the Muslim way is the right way. Well I personally wouldn't ever consider being a Muslim, if people think that's racist then, well think what you like, but would a Muslim consider being a Christian. I think not.
...OOF being international as it's in t'internet of course!
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Right now I only read up to the end of page 3, Geoff is talking complete sense as is Holy Count and Nickbat. No way would I buy the meat if I knew it was Halal meat. I will not be forced in what is supposedly a British country to eat meat that is for the Muslim way of life. Not only do I think it's totally wrong the way they go about killing the animal, why should I? I am English citizen in Britain not a Muslim citizen in Islam. If they do it over there that's down to them, I still don't agree with it, but that's their country and in their country do things their way.
Over here on the other hand it's our (British) country and we do things the way we should do them, but we're not allowed to do this because we've become so over populated with Muslims, we're starting to do things their way. If we moved over there I'd guarantee that they wouldn't start selling meat killed in what I class as the correct way. It's all totally wrong and we're being forced into being very PC and being forced into believing that the Muslim way is the right way. Well I personally wouldn't ever consider being a Muslim, if people think that's racist then, well think what you like, but would a Muslim consider being a Christian. I think not.
...OOF being international as it's in t'internet of course!
Point well made ;D
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Right now I only read up to the end of page 3, Geoff is talking complete sense as is Holy Count and Nickbat. No way would I buy the meat if I knew it was Halal meat. I will not be forced in what is supposedly a British country to eat meat that is for the Muslim way of life. Not only do I think it's totally wrong the way they go about killing the animal, why should I? I am English citizen in Britain not a Muslim citizen in Islam. If they do it over there that's down to them, I still don't agree with it, but that's their country and in their country do things their way.
Over here on the other hand it's our (British) country and we do things the way we should do them, but we're not allowed to do this because we've become so over populated with Muslims, we're starting to do things their way.
thats the critical part and the truth.. if things continue like that you will be outnumbered (like us here) as birth rates are different and one day you will see some people shout 5 o'clock in the morning..
And I cant believe people discussing a mosque to be placed on the ashes of wtc :o :o
If we moved over there I'd guarantee that they wouldn't start selling meat killed in what I class as the correct way. It's all totally wrong and we're being forced into being very PC and being forced into believing that the Muslim way is the right way. Well I personally wouldn't ever consider being a Muslim, if people think that's racist then, well think what you like, but would a Muslim consider being a Christian. I think not.
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And I cant believe people discussing a mosque to be placed on the ashes of wtc :o :o
Wow this is really heading off topic into religion bashing, now, but..
You realise the Mosque is actually a community center (open to all faiths and non-faithed people alike) containing a Mosque, and wasn't actually on the site of the WTC at all?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/matt-sledge/just-how-far-is-the-groun_b_660585.html
Anyhoo.. back to meat..
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And I cant believe people discussing a mosque to be placed on the ashes of wtc :o :o
Wow this is really heading off topic into religion bashing, now, but..
You realise the Mosque is actually a community center (open to all faiths and non-faithed people alike) containing a Mosque, and wasn't actually on the site of the WTC at all?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/matt-sledge/just-how-far-is-the-groun_b_660585.html
Anyhoo.. back to meat..
;D
I'm living between many of them.. ;D ;D
And I have the chance of listening what is told to the community on friday 13 pm.. :(
things are very different inside, but of course not that visible from outside.. :(
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I've heard it said that Homo Sapiens evolved as a Vegetarian hence our very long gut system (circa 40') in order to give food time to be digested
Well we are missing quite a few things.
1) We have a single chambered stomach
2) Our appendix is very small unlike a lot of vegitarian animals (caecum)
3) Our teeth do not continually grow
We also have
1) Canine teeth
2) Molars designed to chew meat
Typical ominvore design
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I've heard it said that Homo Sapiens evolved as a Vegetarian hence our very long gut system (circa 40') in order to give food time to be digested
Well we are missing quite a few things.
1) We have a single chambered stomach
2) Our appendix is very small unlike a lot of vegitarian animals (caecum)
3) Our teeth do not continually grow
We also have
1) Canine teeth
2) Molars designed to chew meat
Typical ominvore design
Man would have originally eaten a diet with considerably more vegetation than we do today... This said, as said, our mouths are such that we are able to eat both meat and vegetation... We have organs that are effectively no longer used such as the appendix (although could be a store of healthy bacteria for the immune system), which assisted in getting the maximum nutrients and digestion of vegetation (cellulose)...
Would I knowingly eat meat killed in a Halal manner, preferably no, I would much rather eat meat that has been killed quickly and humanely...
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I dont think human body system can handle the amount of meat we eat today..
you want proof.. well ,look in the hospitals..
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#1 result prostate cancer,
#2 colon cancer
and the list goes on..
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I've heard it said that Homo Sapiens evolved as a Vegetarian hence our very long gut system (circa 40') in order to give food time to be digested
Well we are missing quite a few things.
1) We have a single chambered stomach
2) Our appendix is very small unlike a lot of vegitarian animals (caecum)
3) Our teeth do not continually grow
We also have
1) Canine teeth
2) Molars designed to chew meat
Typical ominvore design
But what came first - the Vegetarian or the Omnivore? ;)
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Bring back the bus thread...... ::) ::) ::)
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Bring back the bus thread...... ::) ::) ::)
;D ;D :y
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I have a pet dog. Even the word pet implies it is only their for our benefit, for us to gain satisfaction in petting it. I regard her as a member of the family, and would risk my life without question to protect her. I have a better bond with her than most people, just because she is a dog and not human doesn't lessen her worth.
Just out of interest, what do you feed your pet dog on?
As I've said earlier in this thread, it's in the nature of the beast.
Dogs eat meat, or whatever they can given the choice. I feed my dog with food that has animal products. As I said nature of the beast.
I live by a set standards and rules I set for myself, and don't try to impose them on any other human or animal, unlike what most of the rest of the world tries to do, especially muslims.
As much as I value animals, humans are more intelligent etc etc, so we can make the choice, animals can't.
I do feed animal products to my dog.
Thanks for your question, and attempt at a cheap shot that didn't work!
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Blimey I thought this thread was dead!! :o :o :o :o
As long as I have been able to buy meat to cook meals for my family, every womens objective, and it tastes ok, for a housekeeping budget price, I have bought it!! ::) ::) ::) ;) ;)
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The Tesco store just north of Wembley on the North circular (A406) advertises a halal meat counter so you have the choice.
Lincolnshire has yet to catch up!!! ::)