Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: mantahatch on 14 December 2010, 15:06:53
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11987395
I would like to say that I had no intention of causing any offence to anyone with this post.
Admins please delete this entire post.
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oh dear, besides - woudn't it have been easier to just keep him in the wheelchair and push him where you wanted rather than dragging him out and hauling him across the street? :o
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Im sure they thought he would be at his most vulnerable if removed from his wheelchair, and pose less of a threat.
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i got the impression the newsreader was trying to say it was his own fault and trying to depfend the police actions
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I wouldn't be inclined to base judgement on the back of this snapshot of the situation.
There's no easy way to police mass demonstrations and I'm afraid that if the alleged victim and his brother had the inclination to be in the midst of mayhem then they were opening themselves up to such an occurrence. When things get this ugly, big-boys rules apply
This is why I have said that to encourage mass demonstration is irresponsible – things get out of control very easily.
I did notice near the end of that piece that a police officer was being dragged away from the immediate scene by some colleagues so there may some reason for concern, however, there's only a certain amount of shit that any individual can take before reacting inappropriately and police officers, despite all the training, are no different..
I've been in similar situations.
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i got the impression the newsreader was trying to say it was his own fault and trying to depfend the police actions
the beeb just being scrupulously fair to both sides as usual :y
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11987395
Me thinks the police have done themselves no favours here.
Depends what the chap was doing before he became the object of the Police Officer's attention :-X
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11987395
Me thinks the police have done themselves no favours here.
Depends what the chap was doing before he became the object of the Police Officer's attention :-X
sitting incapacitated in a wheelchair in a threatening manner, Sarge :y
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11987395
Me thinks the police have done themselves no favours here.
Depends what the chap was doing before he became the object of the Police Officer's attention :-X
sitting incapacitated in a wheelchair in a threatening manner, Sarge :y
Are you implying you cannot break the law whilst sat in a wheelchair? :o I can think of several ways without trying :y
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11987395
Me thinks the police have done themselves no favours here.
Depends what the chap was doing before he became the object of the Police Officer's attention :-X
sitting incapacitated in a wheelchair in a threatening manner, Sarge :y
Are you implying you cannot break the law whilst sat in a wheelchair? :o I can think of several ways without trying :y
I'm sure you can break the law, I just doubt whether you could threaten an able-bodied policeman sufficiently to warrant that treatment tho :o
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I am sure if he allegedly broke the law, I cannot think of many laws he could break that would warrant being dragged out of a wheel chair.
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11987395
Me thinks the police have done themselves no favours here.
Depends what the chap was doing before he became the object of the Police Officer's attention :-X
sitting incapacitated in a wheelchair in a threatening manner, Sarge :y
Are you implying you cannot break the law whilst sat in a wheelchair? :o I can think of several ways without trying :y
agreed he could have just thrown a brick at a copper if so then justified amazing how the other day opinions on the police were should do more now someone whos disabled is involved everyone hates old bill its not like he didnt know the risks of being there :y
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11987395
Me thinks the police have done themselves no favours here.
Depends what the chap was doing before he became the object of the Police Officer's attention :-X
sitting incapacitated in a wheelchair in a threatening manner, Sarge :y
Are you implying you cannot break the law whilst sat in a wheelchair? :o I can think of several ways without trying :y
I'm sure you can break the law, I just doubt whether you could threaten an able-bodied policeman sufficiently to warrant that treatment tho :o
Refering back to Zulu'z comment, you cannot make passing judgement on a small snapshot of the story. Lets wait for the full story to come out :y
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The chap has cerebral palsy....
Did you see see him on BBC Breakfast this morning...by 'eck
certainly put his point over, well political, but I can't recall him mentioning the tuition fees at all. ;) so why was he there in the first place. He basically said they will do it again until they get rid of this government. Does not seem like a peaceful protestor complaining about tutition fees to me !!!
Should not have been pulled out of his chair, but I wonder whether its a bit deeper than we are led to believe :-?
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"i cant physically move the wheelchair myself,my brother was pushing me.
that could determine a lot on why they justified pulling him from his chair, how did the officer this as such a threat as to do this to pull him from his seat
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I am sure if he allegedly broke the law, I cannot think of many laws he could break that would warrant being dragged out of a wheel chair.
Yes Manta that is quite a reasonable statement.
There will always be instances when police action will be deemed as being controversial/inappropriate/excessive.
These mass demonstrations are almost impossible to police in a way that satisfies either those who take part in them or those who disagree with them.
It is part of the raison d'être for their organisation - not only to make a point that is difficult to ignore (due to the numbers concerned) or to provoke a police response in the hope of gaining additional publicity by discrediting the police.
Society has to make its mind up how they wish to see these things policed. Should the police simply contain the demonstrators within a cordon and allow them to act as they please until exhausted or should they actively discourage disorderly behaviour by robust means. It's no easy call.
I always found it regrettable when people were injured but I’m afraid that in a situation where violence has been or is likely to be used, people can be injured.
Insofar as trying to reason with anyone in a demonstration – especially a mass demonstration - this is all but impossible and I'm afraid that if they’re considered to be in the way, then the easiest thing to do is to remove them in the most reasonable lawful way possible in the circumstances.
Whether it was right in these circumstances to pull this young man from the chair I can't say as I wasn't present however, as always, every police officer knows that should it be proven - in this age of the camera-phone - that they have indeed acted unlawfully then they will face sanction.
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for the next riot the met are going to use there new secret weapon against the students
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e397/adam5172/CHELSEA_PIGGY_COP.gif)
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at the end of the day he was there, in the middle of a rioting crowd, to cause trouble! Just because he's in a wheelchair doesn't mean he wasn't there to cause trouble ;)
No sympathy from me I'm afraid... He's not an innocent party ;) seemples!
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I'm with LD on this one. Same as the one last year when the police battered some prat to death (eventually).
If you chose to put yourself in harms way....
...if you didn't want to get involved with the violence, move to another part of the demonstration thats peaceful.
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ok.. here you go.. do make a judgement :(
(http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x80/mecdv6/dayak.jpg)
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It makes me wonder if this was a bit of a set up.
Park the disabled guy near the front of the riot and hope a copper gets physical with him then play the "poor little cripple" gets a kicking from the nasty thug card.
Nothing like a bit of positive publicity after the Royal fiasco the other night.
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ok.. here you go.. do make a judgement :(
(http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x80/mecdv6/dayak.jpg)
oh copper when i said i liked 10 inches i didnt mean your boot
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at the end of the day he was there, in the middle of a rioting crowd, to cause trouble! Just because he's in a wheelchair doesn't mean he wasn't there to cause trouble ;)
No sympathy from me I'm afraid... He's not an innocent party ;) seemples!
Remember that next time you make a complaint about something. Simples ! ;)
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ok.. here you go.. do make a judgement :(
(http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x80/mecdv6/dayak.jpg)
oh copper when i said i liked 10 inches i didnt mean your boot
;D
seriously, police in most countries have no mercy for anyone..even women or disabled >:(
in the last events here, where students protest the govt, many students are injured and a pregnant women loose tha baby..
of course , the question arises : the police serve the community or govts >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
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ok.. here you go.. do make a judgement :(
(http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x80/mecdv6/dayak.jpg)
Its a shemale, so the copper thought he'd kick her/it in the nuts doh! ::) ::)
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I'm on the polices side on this one. The guy appears to be a socialist on the verge of being an anarchist, and a very belligerant one at that. He says he doesn't want to be treated any differently because he's in a wheelchair, yet tries to make the polices actions seem worse because he is in a wheelchair. What the hell was he doing there? I'd go so far as to say he set it up as a publicity stunt, trying to play on the fact that he's in a wheelchair, hoping softies fall for it. Well he's not getting my sympathy. I'm glad he got thrown out his wheelchair, I'd do the same. For us the general public like us who aren't privvy to all the facts, from the snippet of film it looks perfectly reasonable to, conflict resolution model and the concept of the use of minimum force taken into account.
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I must remind that people in wheelchairs are more sensitive to community problems.. I have friends with wheelchairs and they dont care about the walking problem.. :) :y
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at the end of the day he was there, in the middle of a rioting crowd, to cause trouble! Just because he's in a wheelchair doesn't mean he wasn't there to cause trouble ;)
No sympathy from me I'm afraid... He's not an innocent party ;) seemples!
Remember that next time you make a complaint about something. Simples ! ;)
If I want to complain I don't go in the middle of an angry, rioting mob ;) ;)
Did you see him on the BBC this morning? No mention about Tuition Fees but plenty of talk about causing trouble for the Government ;) He went to cause trouble... No ifs or buts >:(
Yes, perhaps the police were heavier handed with him than was entirely necessary (in hindsight) but faced with an angry mob, they have to make quick decisions. Look at the recent history for these "Student Protests" and it's blatantly obvious that there are people there to cause trouble... They have to react and protect the Majority!
I had some sympathy for the students. Those studying real subjects (like medicine for example) should be heavily subsidised. That sympathy left when they started Rioting instead of protesting calmly and peacefully.
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ok.. here you go.. do make a judgement :(
(http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x80/mecdv6/dayak.jpg)
At least he didn't use the gun! ;D
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27yoGiaVAOU
Interview on BBC Breakfast
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ok.. here you go.. do make a judgement :(
(http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x80/mecdv6/dayak.jpg)
At least he didn't use the gun! ;D
next step ;D
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There's nothing more a copper loves, than giving someone a bloodly good kicking,and getting paid double time for it.
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The chap has cerebral palsy....
Did you see see him on BBC Breakfast this morning...by 'eck
certainly put his point over, well political, but I can't recall him mentioning the tuition fees at all. ;) so why was he there in the first place. He basically said they will do it again until they get rid of this government. Does not seem like a peaceful protestor complaining about tutition fees to me !!!
Should not have been pulled out of his chair, but I wonder whether its a bit deeper than we are led to believe :-?
I noticed that - seemed to be demonstrating for the sake of demonstrating.
To be honest he should not have got involved in a big demo.
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I'm on the polices side on this one. The guy appears to be a socialist on the verge of being an anarchist, and a very belligerant one at that. He says he doesn't want to be treated any differently because he's in a wheelchair, yet tries to make the polices actions seem worse because he is in a wheelchair. What the hell was he doing there? I'd go so far as to say he set it up as a publicity stunt, trying to play on the fact that he's in a wheelchair, hoping softies fall for it. Well he's not getting my sympathy. I'm glad he got thrown out his wheelchair, I'd do the same. For us the general public like us who aren't privvy to all the facts, from the snippet of film it looks perfectly reasonable to, conflict resolution model and the concept of the use of minimum force taken into account.
:o You openly admit you would throw a disabled person from their wheel chair !?!
Re: The sentence after the 'I'm glad' comment. What exactly are you trying to say?
Even tried reading it out loud to see if I can fathom it out, but it sounds even more confusing. :-/
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The chap has cerebral palsy....
Did you see see him on BBC Breakfast this morning...by 'eck
certainly put his point over, well political, but I can't recall him mentioning the tuition fees at all. ;) so why was he there in the first place. He basically said they will do it again until they get rid of this government. Does not seem like a peaceful protestor complaining about tutition fees to me !!!Should not have been pulled out of his chair, but I wonder whether its a bit deeper than we are led to believe :-?
I noticed that - seemed to be demonstrating for the sake of demonstrating.
To be honest he should not have got involved in a big demo.
#1 crime can not be defined from a humans face or bare estimation..
#2 you can not keep people away from protests if they have any disability and you cant say those people "hey, you are disabled what the hell are you doing there" .. similiar claims are made here for the girl who loose the baby.. and thats wrong..
its the police resposibility to behave according to their condition.. or are they blind >:(
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A quick look on youtube brings this guy up on many occasions protesting about all sorts.
He was not at the demo to protest about tuition fees. He is a professional demonstator :y
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A quick look on youtube brings this guy up on many occasions protesting about all sorts.
He was not at the demo to protest about tuition fees. He is a professional demonstator :y
Links ? :y
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I'm on the polices side on this one. The guy appears to be a socialist on the verge of being an anarchist, and a very belligerant one at that. He says he doesn't want to be treated any differently because he's in a wheelchair, yet tries to make the polices actions seem worse because he is in a wheelchair. What the hell was he doing there? I'd go so far as to say he set it up as a publicity stunt, trying to play on the fact that he's in a wheelchair, hoping softies fall for it. Well he's not getting my sympathy. I'm glad he got thrown out his wheelchair, I'd do the same. For us the general public like us who aren't privvy to all the facts, from the snippet of film it looks perfectly reasonable to, conflict resolution model and the concept of the use of minimum force taken into account.
:o You openly admit you would throw a disabled person from their wheel chair !?!
Re: The sentence after the 'I'm glad' comment. What exactly are you trying to say?
Even tried reading it out loud to see if I can fathom it out, but it sounds even more confusing. :-/
That's exactly what I'm saying.
And your reaction is exactly the kind of reaction that these people hoped for when they set up this publicity stunt.
You focus on a few sentences, picking and choosing what you quote, and take it in the wrong context, purposely for your own ends to try to twist things.
As has been said, the police have to make decisions quickly, the protestors (not all) are there for trouble, they admit that. Just because they are in a wheelchair doesn't mean he isn't a threat, there are many ways he could inflict pain or injury or someone. No one has considered that the copper might have tried to grab the wheel chair to turn him away but this ended up happening.
If I made a split second decision to throw someone out of a wheelchair (as an example), to protect myself if I perceived them as a threat, I'd do exactly that. I wouldn't necessarily be proud of it, but glad I did it to protect myself or others.
He is the aggressor, who has come off worse after someone employed self defence, now he doesn't like it. I think he's put his foot in it here.
Addition
I think it's perfectly obvious what I'm trying to say.
What exactly am I trying to say? It's all there.
I don't think you did read it out aloud at all!
Confusing? I don't think it is.
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A quick look on youtube brings this guy up on many occasions protesting about all sorts.
He was not at the demo to protest about tuition fees. He is a professional demonstator :y
Links ? :y
See my earlier post, mate :y
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There's nothing more a copper loves, than giving someone a bloodly good kicking,and getting paid double time for it.
How can you say that Alfie - do you include me in your remarks and should you do, please justify them?
If you do not, then don't generalise by making wildly inflammatory and illogical statements.
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I'm on the polices side on this one. The guy appears to be a socialist on the verge of being an anarchist, and a very belligerant one at that. He says he doesn't want to be treated any differently because he's in a wheelchair, yet tries to make the polices actions seem worse because he is in a wheelchair. What the hell was he doing there? I'd go so far as to say he set it up as a publicity stunt, trying to play on the fact that he's in a wheelchair, hoping softies fall for it. Well he's not getting my sympathy. I'm glad he got thrown out his wheelchair, I'd do the same. For us the general public like us who aren't privvy to all the facts, from the snippet of film it looks perfectly reasonable to, conflict resolution model and the concept of the use of minimum force taken into account.
:o You openly admit you would throw a disabled person from their wheel chair !?!
Re: The sentence after the 'I'm glad' comment. What exactly are you trying to say?
Even tried reading it out loud to see if I can fathom it out, but it sounds even more confusing. :-/
That's exactly what I'm saying.
And your reaction is exactly the kind of reaction that these people hoped for when they set up this publicity stunt.
You focus on a few sentences, picking and choosing what you quote, and take it in the wrong context, purposely for your own ends to try to twist things.
As has been said, the police have to make decisions quickly, the protestors (not all) are there for trouble, they admit that. Just because they are in a wheelchair doesn't mean he isn't a threat, there are many ways he could inflict pain or injury or someone. No one has considered that the copper might have tried to grab the wheel chair to turn him away but this ended up happening.
If I made a split second decision to throw someone out of a wheelchair (as an example), to protect myself if I perceived them as a threat, I'd do exactly that. I wouldn't necessarily be proud of it, but glad I did it to protect myself or others.
He is the aggressor, who has come off worse after someone employed self defence, now he doesn't like it. I think he's put his foot in it here.
Addition
I think it's perfectly obvious what I'm trying to say.
What exactly am I trying to say? It's all there.
I don't think you did read it out aloud at all!
Confusing? I don't think it is.
The guy can't even move his wheelchair by himself, he has to be pushed. What threat could he possibly pose. If he charged at them, all they'd have to do is turn him round and send him back the way he came. ;D
'He is the aggressor, who has come off worse after someone employed self defence, now he doesn't like it. The officer ran over to McIntyre in order to 'defend himself', yet another officer was already calmly walking towards McIntyre and was a couple of feet away from dealing with the issue.
And as for the'reading it aloud', yes I have. I thought maybe I was being a bit slow, but the message still evades me. Maybe it's a punctuation or typo issue. I'm loosing it at 'from the snippet of film it looks perfectly reasonable to,' Perfectly reasonable to what ?
Re-phrase it, maybe it'll sink in with me :y
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A quick look on youtube brings this guy up on many occasions protesting about all sorts.
He was not at the demo to protest about tuition fees. He is a professional demonstator :y
Links ? :y
See my earlier post, mate :y
Ah right. Cheers :y
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There's nothing more a copper loves, than giving someone a bloodly good kicking,and getting paid double time for it.
I happen to work with an ex-copper who Maggie put in front of the miners back in the 1980s.
His accounts of his time there, admittedly mostly overtime etc, are wildly different to the way the media portrayed it. Remember, the Police are 'establishment' and therfore make an easy, soft, sensationalist target for our Trailer Trash serving media.
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Why is it taking so long to sink in? :D
I think I've made it quite clear what I think and what I'm trying to say.
I consider myself to be quite a peaceful person, idiots turn to uncontrolled violence, like many of these protestors. That said, yes someone in a wheelchair could reasonably be considered less of a threat than someone who has the use of their own legs. But, in accordance with the conflict resolution model, and the concept of the use of minimum force, I would take any action I thought necessary to defend myself against an aggressor, whether they're in a wheelchair or not.
I think the majority of right thinking people who have no political motives, points to score, or a dislike of the police would think this is entirely reasonable. You'd be daft not to.
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Why is it taking so long to sink in? :D
I think I've made it quite clear what I think and what I'm trying to say.
I consider myself to be quite a peaceful person, idiots turn to uncontrolled violence, like many of these protestors. That said, yes someone in a wheelchair could reasonably be considered less of a threat than someone who has the use of their own legs. But, in accordance with the conflict resolution model, and the concept of the use of minimum force, I would take any action I thought necessary to defend myself against an aggressor, whether they're in a wheelchair or not.
I think the majority of right thinking people who have no political motives, points to score, or a dislike of the police would think this is entirely reasonable. You'd be daft not to.
And at the time that they beat 10 tonnes of crap out of him, how did they know he was disabled? I could sit in a wheelchair, and I'm not disabled (though some may say mentally)...
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There ARE bad (or maybe incompetent) coppers, but in my experience the vast majority are just regular fellas in some very irregular situations. People should try to imagine how they would react in similar circumstances. It cannot be easy and, God knows, you WILL be pilloried for your actions if you stray.
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http://www.metro.co.uk/news/850240-disabled-man-was-assaulted-by-police-during-tuition-fees-protest
first link is prior altercations with officers.
second is a longer clip of the same footage.
(scroll down the page a bit)
others are seen,(as i would) hot footing it away from the scene without problem.
http://www.morningstaronline.co.uk/index.php/news/content/view/full/98788
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There ARE bad (or maybe incompetent) coppers, but in my experience the vast majority are just regular fellas in some very irregular situations. People should try to imagine how they would react in similar circumstances. It cannot be easy and, God knows, you WILL be pilloried for your actions if you stray.
Bloody Hell, have the pills run out Steve?
I agree entirely :y
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Why is it taking so long to sink in? :D
Right, I've trimmed it down to what I think you're saying.
I'm glad he got thrown out his wheelchair, I'd do the same. From the snippet of film it looks perfectly reasonable to.
Is that right ? :-/
Still not getting what a 'conflict resolution model' is tho ?
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"Later, he was tipped from his wheelchair and dragged across the ground. And Alfie Meadows, 20, was left with bleeding on the brain after allegedly being struck by a police officer"
what happened in the video is obvious.. is that legal for police to hit someone without any tool and guns and on the wheelchair ::)
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Bloody hell how pedantic!!
If you're talking about me making a typo!! Either I missed an 'O' off the end of 'to' to turn it into a 'too', or a 'me' off the end of the sentence. I can't remember how I intended to end the sentence, but it doesn't change what I was trying to say.
You still 'think' I'm saying that; it's written down in plain English. I'm not repeating myself again.
Whatever anyone thinks of the police is irrelevant. If anyone appears to threaten the people who maintain law and order in our land, they should expect a robust response.
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Bloody hell how pedantic!!
If you're talking about me making a typo!! Either I missed an 'O' off the end of 'to' to turn it into a 'too', or a 'me' off the end of the sentence. I can't remember how I intended to end the sentence, but it doesn't change what I was trying to say.
You still 'think' I'm saying that; it's written down in plain English. I'm not repeating myself again.
Whatever anyone thinks of the police is irrelevant. If anyone appears to threaten the people who maintain law and order in our land, they should expect a robust response.
where did you see the threat ? did you see any guns or weapons ?
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Bloody hell how pedantic!!
If you're talking about me making a typo!! Either I missed an 'O' off the end of 'to' to turn it into a 'too', or a 'me' off the end of the sentence. I can't remember how I intended to end the sentence, but it doesn't change what I was trying to say.
You still 'think' I'm saying that; it's written down in plain English. I'm not repeating myself again.
Whatever anyone thinks of the police is irrelevant. If anyone appears to threaten the people who maintain law and order in our land, they should expect a robust response.
where did you see the threat ? did you see any guns or weapons ?
I've never heard of anyone needing guns or weapons to be a threat before!
"Poor little man in his wheelchair, wouldn't/couldn't hurt a fly, abused by the police for no reason."
I think not.
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The authorities should not overreact (easier said than done), but likewise, the 'mob' should respect the Police officers, and property.
In an ideal world, the Police would handle this in such a manner than nobody gets hurt, and the protesters would protest peacefully. But its not an ideal world, we are dealing with students who live in cloud-cuckoo land, and professional troublemakers.
Looking over then protests held over this issue, how many Police officers sustaining serious injury (broken bones) V how many protesters sustaining serious injury? More Police injured than protesters. Then compare ratios of Police to Protesters - Police massively outnumbered. How much criminal damge has been caused by teh Police? How much by the Protesters?
All with a backdrop of Student spokes(wo)men refusing to denounce violence, saying its their right to use violence as its 'unfair' they have to pay for their higher education.
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The authorities should not overreact (easier said than done), but likewise, the 'mob' should respect the Police officers, and property.
In an ideal world, the Police would handle this in such a manner than nobody gets hurt, and the protesters would protest peacefully. But its not an ideal world, we are dealing with students who live in cloud-cuckoo land, and professional troublemakers.
Looking over then protests held over this issue, how many Police officers sustaining serious injury (broken bones) V how many protesters sustaining serious injury? More Police injured than protesters. Then compare ratios of Police to Protesters - Police massively outnumbered. How much criminal damge has been caused by teh Police? How much by the Protesters?
All with a backdrop of Student spokes(wo)men refusing to denounce violence, saying its their right to use violence as its 'unfair' they have to pay for their higher education.
Exactly.
People seem to think the police enjoy being stood out in the cold for hours, being called names that would make you sick, being spat at, abused, punched, kicked, and have all sorts of missile thrown at them. If the fire extinguisher that was thrown in an earlier protest had hit a copper, no doubt these protestors would have thought it was bloody hilarious.
Speaking generally, the police uphold the law and should be beyond reproach. But when they are subject to any bad treatment for a prolonged period of time, they will lash out just like the next person. I for one certainly don't hold it against them, they're only human. I'm not talking about wheelchair-gate, just generally.
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Can Turk and CEM enlighten us as to their opinions on the police sustaining injuries, the criminal damage being caused and whether or not they support or condemn any of the violence in these protests? Also, what would you have done to a protestor who defaces or disrespects a war monument in anyway?
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The authorities should not overreact (easier said than done), but likewise, the 'mob' should respect the Police officers, and property.
In an ideal world, the Police would handle this in such a manner than nobody gets hurt, and the protesters would protest peacefully. But its not an ideal world, we are dealing with students who live in cloud-cuckoo land, and professional troublemakers.
Looking over then protests held over this issue, how many Police officers sustaining serious injury (broken bones) V how many protesters sustaining serious injury? More Police injured than protesters. Then compare ratios of Police to Protesters - Police massively outnumbered. How much criminal damge has been caused by teh Police? How much by the Protesters?
All with a backdrop of Student spokes(wo)men refusing to denounce violence, saying its their right to use violence as its 'unfair' they have to pay for their higher education.
its reverse here..
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Can Turk and CEM enlighten us as to their opinions on the police sustaining injuries, the criminal damage being caused and whether or not they support or condemn any of the violence in these protests? Also, what would you have done to a protestor who defaces or disrespects a war monument in anyway?
dont know how is there but no reason to think UK laws are less detailed than ours.. the definition of violence/terror is very definitive and absolute here..
someone holding any means of weapon and or attacking requires the police to do the "duty" .. however despite the definitive laws and rules , as usual police even the protestors just shout and shows amblems takes the command from the chief and start to break the heads, squirts the eye popping gas etc..
please scroll the page and watch the video
http://www.memurlar.net/haber/182842/
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Bloody hell how pedantic!!
If you're talking about me making a typo!! Either I missed an 'O' off the end of 'to' to turn it into a 'too', or a 'me' off the end of the sentence. I can't remember how I intended to end the sentence, but it doesn't change what I was trying to say.
You still 'think' I'm saying that; it's written down in plain English. I'm not repeating myself again.
Whatever anyone thinks of the police is irrelevant. If anyone appears to threaten the people who maintain law and order in our land, they should expect a robust response.
I take it that my interpretation is correct then ? ;)
You are correct, what you wrote doesn't change what you ment to say, but it certainly affects how others interpret it. (or fail to :-[).
Quite agreed on a 'robust response', but you have to admit that the officer has done the force no favours at all.
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Your suggested definition of violence is very minimal to say the least. Why do you need a weapon to offer violence? You don't, you just need yourself.
More to the point CEM AND TURK:
1. Do you condemn or support the violence perpetrated by these people against the police?
2. Do you support or condemn the acts of criminal damage carried out by these people?
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Bloody hell how pedantic!!
If you're talking about me making a typo!! Either I missed an 'O' off the end of 'to' to turn it into a 'too', or a 'me' off the end of the sentence. I can't remember how I intended to end the sentence, but it doesn't change what I was trying to say.
You still 'think' I'm saying that; it's written down in plain English. I'm not repeating myself again.
Whatever anyone thinks of the police is irrelevant. If anyone appears to threaten the people who maintain law and order in our land, they should expect a robust response.
I take it that my interpretation is correct then ? ;)
You are correct, what you wrote doesn't change what you ment to say, but it certainly affects how others interpret it. (or fail to :-[).
Quite agreed on a 'robust response', but you have to admit that the officer has done the force no favours at all.
Well if you tell me what interpretation you ment, I'd be able to answer, but as said I'm not repeating myself again. Especially when you have acknowledged what I was saying, therefore contradicting yourself.
If others can't interpret plain english that's their concern, not mine, but as said, my typo didn't change the meaning, so you can't say you couldn't interpret it right.
As for the copper concerned not doing his force any favours, that is not the slightest bit relevant. It's not about doing favours or dis-favours. When it is fashionable for the public who think they know it all and who have become law graduates all of a sudden, to slate the government and the police for doing their job, we end up with a non situation like this
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the way the media constantly slate the authorities make the authorities job nigh on impossible.
Anything not done perfectly is dealt with harshly.
The 'mob', at worse, spend a night in the cells, then giving a warning.
I think its biased to much against the Police - though I will agree that its healthy for the Police to have questions asked of them if they have grosely overstepped the mark (but within the context of what happened on the day).
NO Police officer should be getting injured just doing their job. No protester should be allowed to harm anybody, or damage public or private property.
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And this is beginning to get personal - play nicely, or the debate will end.
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I heard all this earlier on LBC radio & initially i had sympathy for Jody. Dragging anyone out of a wheelchair is beyond reproach but as the interview went on it did'nt take long to see despite his disability & speech he is a trouble maker with a huge chip on his shoulder. He's not a student but his younger brother might want to be???? One girl pointed out that she would love the deal new uni's are being offered as she's just graduated. Another 23 yr old student said of todays 3000 police on standby how proud he was of draining the police resources. Well thanks for that as i & most of the rest of us pay for it you spotty little winker, why are you still a student @ 23? Hardly helps your cause. Jody in the chair may have told the police he had a weapon even though he did'nt. He must've said something & after listening to him today it woulld'nt surprise me in the least.
TBH i'm sick to the back teeth of so called radical protesters, even the peaceful ones are getting a good deal uni wise but i hate the hunt, veal....all of them. Sometimes things happen you don't like. Tough titty, get over it & find something more constructive to do. The country is sick to the back teeth of the fricking lot of you wasters.
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I'm in Amigos corner
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Can Turk and CEM enlighten us as to their opinions on the police sustaining injuries, the criminal damage being caused and whether or not they support or condemn any of the violence in these protests? Also, what would you have done to a protestor who defaces or disrespects a war monument in anyway?
We are discussing the actions of a police officer who ran past another officer, already calmly aproaching the issue, in order to tip a disabled person from their wheelchair.
Let's stick to the topic folks. It's all too easy for a thread to go off on a totally different subject :y
All the 'other topics' mentioned should be dealt with to the full extent of the law. Acting like a 'uniformed thug' is not going to help.
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Can Turk and CEM enlighten us as to their opinions on the police sustaining injuries, the criminal damage being caused and whether or not they support or condemn any of the violence in these protests? Also, what would you have done to a protestor who defaces or disrespects a war monument in anyway?
We are discussing the actions of a police officer who ran past another officer, already calmly aproaching the issue, in order to tip a disabled person from their wheelchair.
Let's to stick to the topic folks. It's all too easy for a thread to go off on a totally different subject :y
All the 'other topics' mentioned should be dealt with to the full extent of the law. Acting like a 'uniformed thug' is not going to help.
My comment is in no way off topic, how clear can i make it?
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Can Turk and CEM enlighten us as to their opinions on the police sustaining injuries, the criminal damage being caused and whether or not they support or condemn any of the violence in these protests? Also, what would you have done to a protestor who defaces or disrespects a war monument in anyway?
We are discussing the actions of a police officer who ran past another officer, already calmly aproaching the issue, in order to tip a disabled person from their wheelchair.
Let's to stick to the topic folks. It's all too easy for a thread to go off on a totally different subject :y
All the 'other topics' mentioned should be dealt with to the full extent of the law. Acting like a 'uniformed thug' is not going to help.
We are sticking to the topic and my questions are relevant. I think you don't want to answer the questions, and I know why. You are conveniently saying it's off topic because you don't want to answer the questions.
As for you saying 'acting like a uniformed thug is not going to help'
Well nor is making broad sweeping statements about people. There is good and bad everywhere.
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Can Turk and CEM enlighten us as to their opinions on the police sustaining injuries, the criminal damage being caused and whether or not they support or condemn any of the violence in these protests? Also, what would you have done to a protestor who defaces or disrespects a war monument in anyway?
We are discussing the actions of a police officer who ran past another officer, already calmly aproaching the issue, in order to tip a disabled person from their wheelchair.
Let's to stick to the topic folks. It's all too easy for a thread to go off on a totally different subject :y
All the 'other topics' mentioned should be dealt with to the full extent of the law. Acting like a 'uniformed thug' is not going to help.
yep.. one thing is definite, you cant solve the problems in community by breaking heads, the people is there because they have one problem..
you are there to keep the law and order, not for the reason to break it..
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Can Turk and CEM enlighten us as to their opinions on the police sustaining injuries, the criminal damage being caused and whether or not they support or condemn any of the violence in these protests? Also, what would you have done to a protestor who defaces or disrespects a war monument in anyway?
We are discussing the actions of a police officer who ran past another officer, already calmly aproaching the issue, in order to tip a disabled person from their wheelchair.
Let's to stick to the topic folks. It's all too easy for a thread to go off on a totally different subject :y
All the 'other topics' mentioned should be dealt with to the full extent of the law. Acting like a 'uniformed thug' is not going to help.
yep.. one thing is definite, you cant solve the problems in community by breaking heads, the people is there because they have one problem..
you are there to keep the law and order, not for the reason to break it..
Well then tell the rioting students that! They have committed all these acts of violence and criminal damage.
Do you think if the police asked the protestors nicely: "Please don't do that?" they would stop? I don't think so.
It seems you think it's ok for the students and protestors to kick off, but not ok for the police to emply reasonable measures to control them.
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Can Turk and CEM enlighten us as to their opinions on the police sustaining injuries, the criminal damage being caused and whether or not they support or condemn any of the violence in these protests? Also, what would you have done to a protestor who defaces or disrespects a war monument in anyway?
We are discussing the actions of a police officer who ran past another officer, already calmly aproaching the issue, in order to tip a disabled person from their wheelchair.
Let's to stick to the topic folks. It's all too easy for a thread to go off on a totally different subject :y
All the 'other topics' mentioned should be dealt with to the full extent of the law. Acting like a 'uniformed thug' is not going to help.
My comment is in no way off topic, how clear can i make it?
:-/ Other than the 'My comment is in no way off topic' you have no comment quoted above.
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I heard all this earlier on LBC radio & initially i had sympathy for Jody. Dragging anyone out of a wheelchair is beyond reproach but as the interview went on it did'nt take long to see despite his disability & speech he is a trouble maker with a huge chip on his shoulder. He's not a student but his younger brother might want to be???? One girl pointed out that she would love the deal new uni's are being offered as she's just graduated. Another 23 yr old student said of todays 3000 police on standby how proud he was of draining the police resources. Well thanks for that as i & most of the rest of us pay for it you spotty little winker, why are you still a student @ 23? Hardly helps your cause. Jody in the chair may have told the police he had a weapon even though he did'nt. He must've said something & after listening to him today it woulld'nt surprise me in the least.
TBH i'm sick to the back teeth of so called radical protesters, even the peaceful ones are getting a good deal uni wise but i hate the hunt, veal....all of them. Sometimes things happen you don't like. Tough titty, get over it & find something more constructive to do. The country is sick to the back teeth of the fricking lot of you wasters.
:P :P I was 39 when I went to Uni...... ;) ;)
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Can Turk and CEM enlighten us as to their opinions on the police sustaining injuries, the criminal damage being caused and whether or not they support or condemn any of the violence in these protests? Also, what would you have done to a protestor who defaces or disrespects a war monument in anyway?
We are discussing the actions of a police officer who ran past another officer, already calmly aproaching the issue, in order to tip a disabled person from their wheelchair.
Let's to stick to the topic folks. It's all too easy for a thread to go off on a totally different subject :y
All the 'other topics' mentioned should be dealt with to the full extent of the law. Acting like a 'uniformed thug' is not going to help.
yep.. one thing is definite, you cant solve the problems in community by breaking heads, the people is there because they have one problem..
you are there to keep the law and order, not for the reason to break it..
Well then tell the rioting students that! They have committed all these acts of violence and criminal damage.
Do you think if the police asked the protestors nicely: "Please don't do that?" they would stop? I don't think so.
It seems you think it's ok for the students and protestors to kick off, but not ok for the police to emply reasonable measures to control them.
Exactly, but running over to tip a disabled man, who apparently is known to the officer in question, from his wheelchair and dragging him across the road is not 'reasonable measures'.
One of the first things they would have to do is put him back in his chair anyway.
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Can Turk and CEM enlighten us as to their opinions on the police sustaining injuries, the criminal damage being caused and whether or not they support or condemn any of the violence in these protests? Also, what would you have done to a protestor who defaces or disrespects a war monument in anyway?
We are discussing the actions of a police officer who ran past another officer, already calmly aproaching the issue, in order to tip a disabled person from their wheelchair.
Let's to stick to the topic folks. It's all too easy for a thread to go off on a totally different subject :y
All the 'other topics' mentioned should be dealt with to the full extent of the law. Acting like a 'uniformed thug' is not going to help.
yep.. one thing is definite, you cant solve the problems in community by breaking heads, the people is there because they have one problem..
you are there to keep the law and order, not for the reason to break it..
Well then tell the rioting students that! They have committed all these acts of violence and criminal damage.
Do you think if the police asked the protestors nicely: "Please don't do that?" they would stop? I don't think so.
It seems you think it's ok for the students and protestors to kick off, but not ok for the police to emply reasonable measures to control them.
Exactly, but running over to tip a disabled man, who apparently is known to the officer in question, from his wheelchair and dragging him across the road is not 'reasonable measures'.
One of the first things they would have to do is put him back in his chair anyway.
Not if the chair won't fit in the back of the van.
How do you know what reasonble is in the circumstances? Only the copper knows that.
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Can Turk and CEM enlighten us as to their opinions on the police sustaining injuries, the criminal damage being caused and whether or not they support or condemn any of the violence in these protests? Also, what would you have done to a protestor who defaces or disrespects a war monument in anyway?
We are discussing the actions of a police officer who ran past another officer, already calmly aproaching the issue, in order to tip a disabled person from their wheelchair.
Let's to stick to the topic folks. It's all too easy for a thread to go off on a totally different subject :y
All the 'other topics' mentioned should be dealt with to the full extent of the law. Acting like a 'uniformed thug' is not going to help.
My comment is in no way off topic, how clear can i make it?
:-/ Other than the 'My comment is in no way off topic' you have no comment quoted above.
I thought i made myself quite clear but if you insist....I'm sick to death of paying the police (not thier fault) to deal with a bunch of ungrateful miscreants who should be studying or attending lectures but instead in thier misguided beliefs keep our police from catching paedophiles, rapists & the like.
What matters most to you?
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Can Turk and CEM enlighten us as to their opinions on the police sustaining injuries, the criminal damage being caused and whether or not they support or condemn any of the violence in these protests? Also, what would you have done to a protestor who defaces or disrespects a war monument in anyway?
We are discussing the actions of a police officer who ran past another officer, already calmly aproaching the issue, in order to tip a disabled person from their wheelchair.
Let's to stick to the topic folks. It's all too easy for a thread to go off on a totally different subject :y
All the 'other topics' mentioned should be dealt with to the full extent of the law. Acting like a 'uniformed thug' is not going to help.
My comment is in no way off topic, how clear can i make it?
:-/ Other than the 'My comment is in no way off topic' you have no comment quoted above.
I thought i made myself quite clear but if you insist....I'm sick to death of paying the police (not thier fault) to deal with a bunch of ungrateful miscreants who should be studying or attending lectures but instead in thier misguided beliefs keep our police from catching paedophiles, rapists & the like.
What matters most to you?
Yeah, and where do the students think the money is coming from? Trees?
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Can Turk and CEM enlighten us as to their opinions on the police sustaining injuries, the criminal damage being caused and whether or not they support or condemn any of the violence in these protests? Also, what would you have done to a protestor who defaces or disrespects a war monument in anyway?
We are discussing the actions of a police officer who ran past another officer, already calmly aproaching the issue, in order to tip a disabled person from their wheelchair.
Let's to stick to the topic folks. It's all too easy for a thread to go off on a totally different subject :y
All the 'other topics' mentioned should be dealt with to the full extent of the law. Acting like a 'uniformed thug' is not going to help.
yep.. one thing is definite, you cant solve the problems in community by breaking heads, the people is there because they have one problem..
you are there to keep the law and order, not for the reason to break it..
Well then tell the rioting students that! They have committed all these acts of violence and criminal damage.
Do you think if the police asked the protestors nicely: "Please don't do that?" they would stop? I don't think so.
It seems you think it's ok for the students and protestors to kick off, but not ok for the police to emply reasonable measures to control them.
please ask the question why in the first place the students prefer that way.. just for a daily fight with police to see some blood and broken bones.. ;D
would you fight with someone without any reason ?
second , police with all that power never asks for anything, they just do what is ordered ..(sometimes more than ordered >:()
anyway , for people if that picture seems normal , than we do have more problems than we can estimate..
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A report I heard today stated that the bloke is by no means confined to a wheel chair.He can walk but gets tired after walking any great distance, so the image of "the cripple" being slung out of his chair is apparently not quiete as straightforward as that - big surprise ;)
I think he is a professional agitator, who has possibly used his situation to lay a trap for the police - wind them up to breaking point and then scream blue murder when the trap is sprung.
Cem - these "students" gathered in large numbers (many thousands) and embarked on a prolonged violent attack on the police - throwing rocks, wooden poles, crowd barriers, and anything else they could lay their hands on, and caused very serious damage to many buildings and monuments - many of which are of important historical interest to the nation.
I have no doubt that many of them are veggie,animal rights protesting tree huggers, yet they were throwing missiles at horses which happened to have a police officer sat halfway along their backs - then the police reacted. If the police hadnt acted to try to contain the mindless violence, the centre of London would have resembled a war zone by the time these morons had finished with it.
And if Dave Gilmours adopted son was anything to go by, imo their actions were enhanced by the use of certain chemical substances. ;)
There is no excuse imo for what they did,and they should be made to pay for it.
We dont see these "class warriors" having mass protests about the plight of homeless people sleeping in sub zero temperatures in London this winter do we ? No, this ( for those who actually were students) was about money - and how they dont want to part with it. :y
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Can Turk and CEM enlighten us as to their opinions on the police sustaining injuries, the criminal damage being caused and whether or not they support or condemn any of the violence in these protests? Also, what would you have done to a protestor who defaces or disrespects a war monument in anyway?
We are discussing the actions of a police officer who ran past another officer, already calmly aproaching the issue, in order to tip a disabled person from their wheelchair.
Let's to stick to the topic folks. It's all too easy for a thread to go off on a totally different subject :y
All the 'other topics' mentioned should be dealt with to the full extent of the law. Acting like a 'uniformed thug' is not going to help.
yep.. one thing is definite, you cant solve the problems in community by breaking heads, the people is there because they have one problem..
you are there to keep the law and order, not for the reason to break it..
Well then tell the rioting students that! They have committed all these acts of violence and criminal damage.
Do you think if the police asked the protestors nicely: "Please don't do that?" they would stop? I don't think so.
It seems you think it's ok for the students and protestors to kick off, but not ok for the police to emply reasonable measures to control them.
please ask the question why in the first place the students prefer that way.. just for a daily fight with police to see some blood and broken bones.. ;D
would you fight with someone without any reason ?
second , police with all that power never asks for anything, they just do what is ordered ..(sometimes more than ordered >:()
anyway , for people if that picture seems normal , than we do have more problems than we can estimate..
So then CEM from these comments it seems you think the protestors violent acts are justified, so you are as bad as they are.
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Exactly Albs! :)
They don't want to part with their money. But there is a cost to everything, and if you want something you pay for it. Just like they should pay and be punished for the damage and injuries they have caused. :y
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We dont know how the footage has been edited and portrayed in other countries. Many of us in this country had the benefit of watching it live, as it happened on our TV screens.
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A report I heard today stated that the bloke is by no means confined to a wheel chair.He can walk but gets tired after walking any great distance, so the image of "the cripple" being slung out of his chair is apparently not quiete as straightforward as that - big surprise ;)
not a surprise , remember the force who drives the media ;)
I think he is a professional agitator, who has possibly used his situation to lay a trap for the police - wind them up to breaking point and then scream blue murder when the trap is sprung.
Cem - these "students" gathered in large numbers (many thousands) and embarked on a prolonged violent attack on the police - throwing rocks, wooden poles, crowd barriers, and anything else they could lay their hands on, and caused very serious damage to many buildings and monuments - many of which are of important historical interest to the nation.
remember, action and reaction..fact!
once they were beaten , arrested, sprayed because they defend their rights (right or wrong) what you expect from them .. communities cant be governed by "I did it and I will.. "
I have no doubt that many of them are veggie,animal rights protesting tree huggers, yet they were throwing missiles at horses which happened to have a police officer sat halfway along their backs - then the police reacted. If the police hadnt acted to try to contain the mindless violence, the centre of London would have resembled a war zone by the time these morons had finished with it.
And if Dave Gilmours adopted son was anything to go by, imo their actions were enhanced by the use of certain chemical substances. ;)
There is no excuse imo for what they did,and they should be made to pay for it.
We dont see these "class warriors" having mass protests about the plight of homeless people sleeping in sub zero temperatures in London this winter do we ? No, this ( for those who actually were students) was about money -
most important and vital subject , with that you play with their future!
and how they dont want to part with it. :y
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Can Turk and CEM enlighten us as to their opinions on the police sustaining injuries, the criminal damage being caused and whether or not they support or condemn any of the violence in these protests? Also, what would you have done to a protestor who defaces or disrespects a war monument in anyway?
We are discussing the actions of a police officer who ran past another officer, already calmly aproaching the issue, in order to tip a disabled person from their wheelchair.
Let's to stick to the topic folks. It's all too easy for a thread to go off on a totally different subject :y
All the 'other topics' mentioned should be dealt with to the full extent of the law. Acting like a 'uniformed thug' is not going to help.
yep.. one thing is definite, you cant solve the problems in community by breaking heads, the people is there because they have one problem..
you are there to keep the law and order, not for the reason to break it..
Well then tell the rioting students that! They have committed all these acts of violence and criminal damage.
Do you think if the police asked the protestors nicely: "Please don't do that?" they would stop? I don't think so.
It seems you think it's ok for the students and protestors to kick off, but not ok for the police to emply reasonable measures to control them.
please ask the question why in the first place the students prefer that way.. just for a daily fight with police to see some blood and broken bones.. ;D
would you fight with someone without any reason ?
second , police with all that power never asks for anything, they just do what is ordered ..(sometimes more than ordered >:()
anyway , for people if that picture seems normal , than we do have more problems than we can estimate..
So then CEM from these comments it seems you think the protestors violent acts are justified, so you are as bad as they are.
from all that I wrote,you concluded like that ;D
if you let them shout and walk freely what will happen ? but if you stop them, result will be as expected..
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They werent arrested until long after they had commited the crimes. They werent at any point sprayed with anything afaik.
Cem, your a really nice bloke and very highly thought of in these parts, but you seem determined to find a conspiracy in any situation, and wont let facts get in the way of the train of thought you have already decided to take. ;)
Very typical of left wing thinking tbh. :(
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Exactly Albs! :)
They don't want to part with their money. But there is a cost to everything, and if you want something you pay for it.
health and education are special subjects ,
if you dont have money would you prefer hospitals let you die ?
Just like they should pay and be punished for the damage and injuries they have caused. :y
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They werent arrested until long after they had commited the crimes. They werent at any point sprayed with anything afaik.
Cem, your a really nice bloke and very highly thought of in these parts, but you seem determined to find a conspiracy in any situation,
Albs, with all this crowd of human kind , some lucky few! always managed to win ;D and I dont believe thats by chance :y
and wont let facts get in the way of the train of thought you have already decided to take. ;)
Very typical of left wing thinking tbh. :(
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I can only conclude you are very naive then CEM. If you think that if left to their own devices they wouldn't behave the way they have been, well then you're wrong.
They had the intention for disorder in the first place. The fact that the police are there trying to stop them doesn't create the intention in their heads.
As for your insinuation that the government control the media! I don't think so! Not in Britain!
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Cem - the policy is that they pay nothing while at university, but after they have finished, and start to earn above a reasonable level they start to pay something back.
Personally I think the policy is very flawed in several ways, but thats not the point. These people state that they want to bring down the government. Many of them are simply anarchists, nothing more nothing less. ;)
The British media is notoriously left wing. ;)
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Exactly Albs! :)
They don't want to part with their money. But there is a cost to everything, and if you want something you pay for it.
health and education are special subjects ,
if you dont have money would you prefer hospitals let you die ?
Just like they should pay and be punished for the damage and injuries they have caused. :y
Like I said, there is a cost to everything. We do pay for our healthcare thankyou very much, and our education.
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Can Turk and CEM enlighten us as to their opinions on the police sustaining injuries, the criminal damage being caused and whether or not they support or condemn any of the violence in these protests? Also, what would you have done to a protestor who defaces or disrespects a war monument in anyway?
We are discussing the actions of a police officer who ran past another officer, already calmly aproaching the issue, in order to tip a disabled person from their wheelchair.
Let's to stick to the topic folks. It's all too easy for a thread to go off on a totally different subject :y
All the 'other topics' mentioned should be dealt with to the full extent of the law. Acting like a 'uniformed thug' is not going to help.
My comment is in no way off topic, how clear can i make it?
:-/ Other than the 'My comment is in no way off topic' you have no comment quoted above.
I thought i made myself quite clear but if you insist....I'm sick to death of paying the police (not thier fault) to deal with a bunch of ungrateful miscreants who should be studying or attending lectures but instead in thier misguided beliefs keep our police from catching paedophiles, rapists & the like.
What matters most to you?
Ah right, that comment. No use asking 'How clear can I make it ?' when you've not 'quoted' the comment in question. ;)
Yep, that's a fair e'nuff. Somehow I don't think a survey would reveal too many tax payers that were happy about footing that bill, or it's effect on other issues.
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I can only conclude you are very naive then CEM. If you think that if left to their own devices they wouldn't behave the way they have been, well then you're wrong.
They had the intention for disorder in the first place. The fact that the police are there trying to stop them doesn't create the intention in their heads.
As for your insinuation that the government control the media! I don't think so! Not in Britain!
Nah, that's ol' Rupe, everyone knows that ;D
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I can only conclude you are very naive then CEM. If you think that if left to their own devices they wouldn't behave the way they have been, well then you're wrong.
They had the intention for disorder in the first place. The fact that the police are there trying to stop them doesn't create the intention in their heads.
As for your insinuation that the government control the media! I don't think so! Not in Britain!
agreed .. govts mostly cant control the media except some countries like mine, however there are classes that even controls the govts.. ;D ;)
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Cem - the policy is that they pay nothing while at university, but after they have finished, and start to earn above a reasonable level they start to pay something back.
Personally I think the policy is very flawed in several ways, but thats not the point. These people state that they want to bring down the government.
I'm afraid I agree with them ;D
Many of them are simply anarchists, nothing more nothing less. ;)
imo problem not that simple..
The British media is notoriously left wing. ;)
leftists never had the money to run media.. those are claiming only ;D
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Cem - the policy is that they pay nothing while at university, but after they have finished, and start to earn above a reasonable level they start to pay something back.
Personally I think the policy is very flawed in several ways, but thats not the point. These people state that they want to bring down the government.
I'm afraid I agree with them ;D
Many of them are simply anarchists, nothing more nothing less. ;)
imo problem not that simple..
The British media is notoriously left wing. ;)
leftists never had the money to run media.. those are claiming only ;D
If you agree with them about bringing down the government, I think you should never be allowed into Britain as you could be deemed as a threat to national security.
I happen to think Turkey shouldn't in a million years be allowed in the EU for their atrocious record on human rights and the ongoing crime of the invasion of Cyprus. This is alot worse than what you allege the police to have done.
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Well this has been enlightening.
Unlike many here I've policed in a lot of violent protests when I was in uniform - all, for the most part, much worse in terms of outright violence than those we have been discussing here.
I can say with the certainty of experience that video reports or eye witness accounts of such occurrences seldom chime with what actually happens.
Insofar as the present disturbances are concerned people have the right to protest their grievances but when they overstep the mark the police must attempt to restore and maintain order.
There will always be circumstances when police officers overstep their authority - it's inevitable in these volatile situations but when they do, there are procedures in place to more than adequately deal with their transgressions.
In the main it’s a trade off between allowing legitimate protest and maintaining the basic structures of good order - it's a difficult but very necessary task during which many people run the risk of injury.
On a final note, the reality of such violence lingers long after the protagonists have grown up and joined the salaried ranks of contemporary society.
I have had two surgical procedures this year to correct injuries I received during disturbances in the late 70’s, so there is always a price to pay for ensuring that people have the right to protest.
Sadly that price is usually paid (in greater numbers) by those who are charged with keeping order.
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Well this has been enlightening.
Unlike many here I've policed in a lot of violent protests when I was in uniform - all, for the most part, much worse in terms of outright violence than those we have been discussing here.
I can say with the certainty of experience that video reports or eye witness accounts of such occurrences seldom chime with what actually happens.
Insofar as the present disturbances are concerned people have the right to protest their grievances but when they overstep the mark the police must attempt to restore and maintain order.
There will always be circumstances when police officers overstep their authority - it's inevitable in these volatile situations but when they do, there are procedures in place to more than adequately deal with their transgressions.
In the main it’s a trade off between allowing legitimate protest and maintaining the basic structures of good order - it's a difficult but very necessary task during which many people run the risk of injury.
On a final note, the reality of such violence lingers long after the protagonists have grown up and joined the salaried ranks of contemporary society.
I have had two surgical procedures this year to correct injuries I received during disturbances in the late 70’s, so there is always a price to pay for ensuring that people have the right to protest.
Sadly that price is usually paid (in greater numbers) by those who are charged with keeping order.
sadly some people dont understand that the old bill are not in the wrong here no riot = no students getting hurt
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Cem - the policy is that they pay nothing while at university, but after they have finished, and start to earn above a reasonable level they start to pay something back.
Personally I think the policy is very flawed in several ways, but thats not the point. These people state that they want to bring down the government.
I'm afraid I agree with them ;D
Many of them are simply anarchists, nothing more nothing less. ;)
imo problem not that simple..
The British media is notoriously left wing. ;)
leftists never had the money to run media.. those are claiming only ;D
If you agree with them about bringing down the government, I think you should never be allowed into Britain as you could be deemed as a threat to national security.
;D ;D thanks for the kind words..
I happen to think Turkey shouldn't in a million years be allowed in the EU
agreed.. and anyway no worries EU wont accept which I also prefer..
for their atrocious record on human rights and the ongoing crime of the invasion of Cyprus.
that subject being unrelated and very detailed, better to discuss in another thread imo.. however at that point I must note that looking for the historical events who invaded where with what rights is a highly debatable subject..
This is alot worse than what you allege the police to have done.
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Can Turk and CEM enlighten us as to their opinions on the police sustaining injuries, the criminal damage being caused and whether or not they support or condemn any of the violence in these protests? Also, what would you have done to a protestor who defaces or disrespects a war monument in anyway?
We are discussing the actions of a police officer who ran past another officer, already calmly aproaching the issue, in order to tip a disabled person from their wheelchair.
Let's to stick to the topic folks. It's all too easy for a thread to go off on a totally different subject :y
All the 'other topics' mentioned should be dealt with to the full extent of the law. Acting like a 'uniformed thug' is not going to help.
My comment is in no way off topic, how clear can i make it?
:-/ Other than the 'My comment is in no way off topic' you have no comment quoted above.
I thought i made myself quite clear but if you insist....I'm sick to death of paying the police (not thier fault) to deal with a bunch of ungrateful miscreants who should be studying or attending lectures but instead in thier misguided beliefs keep our police from catching paedophiles, rapists & the like.
What matters most to you?
Ah right, that comment. No use asking 'How clear can I make it ?' when you've not 'quoted' the comment in question. ;)
Yep, that's a fair e'nuff. Somehow I don't think a survey would reveal too many tax payers that were happy about footing that bill, or it's effect on other issues.
Turk you should be a politician. You keep asking me what i'm saying, i repeat it clearly over & over again but yet you keep telling me i'm not quoting? What exactly do you want me to quote? I can't say any more without repeating myself yet again.
Ask me a straight question & i'll give you a straight answer otherwise wind your neck in & stop messing about.!!! ::)
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I am not getting into this argument but a few days ago there was a thread that suggested almost violent approach the the protesters, and being disabled does not give privileges, after all we have fought for years for equal opportunities.....
I am in no way commenting on the origins of this post :-X simply making an observation, however I have seen the need for 3 police officers to restrain a similar abled person from killing, or at the very least hurting, with a knife, his father....so lets not get too goody goody.....
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Cem - the policy is that they pay nothing while at university, but after they have finished, and start to earn above a reasonable level they start to pay something back.
Personally I think the policy is very flawed in several ways, but thats not the point. These people state that they want to bring down the government. Many of them are simply anarchists, nothing more nothing less. ;)
The British media is notoriously left wing. ;)
;D ;D ;D ;D
highlight of the debate so far ;D ;D ;D ;D :y
do you want to list these "left-wing" media establishments Albs? I didnt realise the Morning Star and Socialist Worker were so influential :o
if you're referring to the beeb I'll point out again that the beeb bent over backwards to give the police point of view - seemed very balanced to me :y
you attack Cem for seeking a conspiracy and yet you have this notion that the world is run by some invisible left-wing media agenda, invisible to everyone but you and a few swivel-eyed loonballs.
and as far as your post: "but you seem determined to find a conspiracy in any situation, and wont let facts get in the way of the train of thought you have already decided to take"
a touch of the pot and kettle perhaps? I've never once read a thread on the OOF without knowing exactly where you'll stand on it - you're the very definition of intractable Albs, in my opinion.
I value and look forward to reading you're posts tho, as I do Cems - I find it interesting to hear what people outside the UK think on different subjects and Cem is a witty, engaging and intelligent fellow - yes he has a different take on many subjects.....but isn't that a good thing? :y
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Cem - the policy is that they pay nothing while at university, but after they have finished, and start to earn above a reasonable level they start to pay something back.
Personally I think the policy is very flawed in several ways, but thats not the point. These people state that they want to bring down the government. Many of them are simply anarchists, nothing more nothing less. ;)
The British media is notoriously left wing. ;)
;D ;D ;D ;D
highlight of the debate so far ;D ;D ;D ;D :y
do you want to list these "left-wing" media establishments Albs? I didnt realise the Morning Star and Socialist Worker were so influential :o
if you're referring to the beeb I'll point out again that the beeb bent over backwards to give the police point of view - seemed very balanced to me :y
you attack Cem for seeking a conspiracy and yet you have this notion that the world is run by some invisible left-wing media agenda, invisible to everyone but you and a few swivel-eyed loonballs.
and as far as your post: "but you seem determined to find a conspiracy in any situation, and wont let facts get in the way of the train of thought you have already decided to take"
a touch of the pot and kettle perhaps? I've never once read a thread on the OOF without knowing exactly where you'll stand on it - you're the very definition of intractable Albs, in my opinion.
I value and look forward to reading you're posts tho, as I do Cems - I find it interesting to hear what people outside the UK think on different subjects and Cem is a witty, engaging and intelligent fellow - yes he has a different take on many subjects.....but isn't that a good thing? :y
:) :y :y :y
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Can Turk and CEM enlighten us as to their opinions on the police sustaining injuries, the criminal damage being caused and whether or not they support or condemn any of the violence in these protests? Also, what would you have done to a protestor who defaces or disrespects a war monument in anyway?
We are discussing the actions of a police officer who ran past another officer, already calmly aproaching the issue, in order to tip a disabled person from their wheelchair.
Let's to stick to the topic folks. It's all too easy for a thread to go off on a totally different subject :y
All the 'other topics' mentioned should be dealt with to the full extent of the law. Acting like a 'uniformed thug' is not going to help.
My comment is in no way off topic, how clear can i make it?
:-/ Other than the 'My comment is in no way off topic' you have no comment quoted above.
I thought i made myself quite clear but if you insist....I'm sick to death of paying the police (not thier fault) to deal with a bunch of ungrateful miscreants who should be studying or attending lectures but instead in thier misguided beliefs keep our police from catching paedophiles, rapists & the like.
What matters most to you?
Ah right, that comment. No use asking 'How clear can I make it ?' when you've not 'quoted' the comment in question. ;)
Yep, that's a fair e'nuff. Somehow I don't think a survey would reveal too many tax payers that were happy about footing that bill, or it's effect on other issues.
Turk you should be a politician. You keep asking me what i'm saying, i repeat it clearly over & over again but yet you keep telling me i'm not quoting? What exactly do you want me to quote? I can't say any more without repeating myself yet again.
Ask me a straight question & i'll give you a straight answer otherwise wind your neck in & stop messing about.!!! ::)
;D My boss says that too !!
You posted the 'My comment is in no way off topic, how clear can i make it? yet you hadn't included the comment you were refering to in the 'previous quoted' until after I indicated your ommission. It's no use saying 'i repeat it clearly over & over again' when you didn't add the initial comment you were refering to.
(And anyway, get off yer high horse. ;) I was just trying to clarify exactly what folk are saying, rather than just briefly glancing over a posting without really taking things in, as if I had more interest in posting my own tuppence worth.)
Just to clarify, I have been known to refer to the stereotypical, charity shop dressed, fifteen straws sharing one pint of Strongbow, 'look at us, we're poor students', as 'lazy, free loading, soap dodgers'.
All I'm saying here is that one thug that's managed to get into a uniform has let the force down again.
The video shows an officer within feet of McIntyre, calmly walking over to deal with things, when the idiot officer runs from way behind to tip McIntyre from his wheelchair and drag him across the road.
I doubt the protestors planned for that to happen as the camera pans away until someone alerts the camera holder to what has happened to the disabled man.
Ideal publicity...and the 'student' just had to sit there and do nothing !!
Personally I doubt there should or will be any serious action against the officer, but I bet his superiors and colleagues have asked him 'What the hell were you thinking ??'
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well i may as well put my two tuppance in, can someone explain to me what this poor lad in the wheelchair was doing in the front line of this protest which handicapped or not even he should have realised had turned violent, where was his brother then or did he just release him as a missile!! i have absolutely no sympathy for him he is an agitator and if he didn't want to be treated as one then he shouldn't have been there. when i was a lad every new years eve the police would have to suit up in their riot gear to clear the beach of drunken teens and you knew if you wanted a beating you join the front line if you don't you go home, same thing applies here if you can't protest peacefully then don't every action has a reaction and whilst pulling him from his chair is deemed heavy handed what the hell is the difference than being dragged able bodied from the street? once again no sympathy and hats off to the police they needed to regain control and that's all they were doing. A few weeks ago some straw wearing protesters were having a sit down on the railway lines stopping a train of atomic waste and as they sat there they removed the ballast from under the track, now if i were the police i would have arrested every single one of them caught doing this but no the call went up police were heavy handed moving them on blah blah blah the police have a job to do and i support them 100 percent and don't see this as heavy handed in the bit maybe if they had let down his tyres that would have been a bit mean!!! ;D
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As I haven't seen anyone else publish this link, here is an eye-witness account concerning the Met and Jody MacIntyre.
http://www.mitchell-images.com/#/jody-mcintyre/4546538655
By the way, the young lad can walk. He managed all the stairs to the top of Milbank last November, which ain't bad seeing as it's nine floors....
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As I haven't seen anyone else publish this link, here is an eye-witness account concerning the Met and Jody MacIntyre.
http://www.mitchell-images.com/#/jody-mcintyre/4546538655
By the way, the young lad can walk. He managed all the stairs to the top of Milbank last November, which ain't bad seeing as it's nine floors....
That's a great link Blue :y I think it fair to say that there is always a lot more to these situations than immediately apparent.
The photographs contained in the other tabs show just how difficult is to police mass demonstrations with any degree of sensitivity.
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I am not getting into this argument but...rabbit rabbit rabbit rabbit rabbit rabbit rabbit........
;D ;D ;D ;D
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look in the pictures ,his legs , their positions when he is on his feet and weakness of the legs..
if you cant distinguish a healthy person and a weak one , no need to comment further >:(
and I hope this boy find a good lawyer and do what is necessary >:( >:(
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I happen to think Turkey shouldn't in a million years be allowed in the EU for their atrocious record on human rights and the ongoing crime of the invasion of Cyprus.
As someone who has taken a very keen interest in Cypriot history and politics - some here will know why - and have spent much time studying the history of it, its a deeper rooted debate than the 1974 Turkish "(re?)invasion", so to suggest that is ouright wrong, perhaps shows a lack of understanding, or too much time spent just north of Paralimni (good Greek restuarant just off the square there :y).
That would be like me claiming that reglion was the reason for Prodestant/Catholic, Nationalist/Republican difficulties in Northern Ireland over the past few decades.
But bringing that in is off topic.
As a moderator, my reading of your posts to/about cem is bordering on the offensive IMHO. Whilst I'm sure cem is more than capable of fighting his corner, I believe your posts about him and his country have overstepped the line here. Remember, we need to respect each other's views, and also remember that OOF is a global site.
As a member here, I disagree with the majority of cem's views on this particular subject, but like to think we can be friends (or at least respect each others views), and agree to disagree sometimes.
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and I shall lock this thread at 7pm - I believe it has just about run its course.
Some people think the Police have a hard job, and that the 'disabled' man was a sympathy plant to get headlines.
Some people think that the Police grossly overstepped the mark, and the Police should be hung, drawn and quartered.
Bottom line remains that nobody has the right to threaten or harm anyone else, nor does anyone have the right to damage property that does not belong to them.
Thread will be locked at 7pm.
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Cem, you determined an awful lot about the state of MacIntyre's legs from two images that showed about 8 inches of the top of his thighs. From memory CP sufferers don't, strictly speaking, have 'weak' legs. CP is a brain condition, not a body degenerative one. They suffer from control of the limbs, with muscle tone being stiff or over-relaxed, and arms/legs might be kept in set positions, and can have body deformities resulting from the problems with muscle tone.
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I would suggest the idea that MacIntyre is/was a sob story to counteract the antics of various students during previous demonstrations is a little contentious. MacIntyre doesn't have all that much time for the NUS, (and very much less for the Labour party incidentally), So I doubt whether he is a prime instigator in the publicity and probably more of a quite willing participant. He's strong-minded, which is in my opinion a good thing if also appallingly myopic in a rather Citizen Smith way, and he come over as a bit of an unwitting satire.
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Locked as promised.
Now please feel free to play nicely elsewhere on the site....