Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: mantagte on 17 January 2011, 18:01:58
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now im peed off
(http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a97/mantagte_/DSCF0479.jpg)
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:o :o :o :o
OMG! I hope you and your family were unhurt at least.....
RIP miggy? :'(
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Oh no!! :o :o :o :o :o
That looks suspiciously like a fire caused by the power sounder going up!! :'( :'( :'( :'(
When did it happen??
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How the bloody hell did that happen. :o :o
Don`t say it was the powersounder
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we were indoors wallpapering at the time
sat down for a cup of tea about 2.30 this afternoon
swmbo said its a bit foggy i said are you sure its not smoke
she looked again and yes it's my ******* car
rushed out with the hose pipe but she was well alight
fire brigade came and put the rest out
poor miggy
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Ouch, sorry to say it does look 'more' localised to the powerosunder, but very hard to say with that level of damage. we were so luck catching ours before it had done any real damage :'( :'( :'(
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At least no one was in the car at the time :(
Does look like the dreaded power sounder :'(
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gotta find another one now
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sorry for you loss kev. not nice mate.
what causes this powersounder to do this??
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christ thats sickening.
what on earth is a power sounder? and why did your car just catch fire???
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sorry for you loss kev. not nice mate.
what causes this powersounder to do this??
several theorys, but batteries break down and leak, and catch fire.
Possibly worse if the main battery voltage is a lttle low
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christ thats sickening.
what on earth is a power sounder? and why did your car just catch fire???
It sits just under the drivers side wiper scuttle as part of the alarm system. As Jimbob says the batteries can breakdown and catch fire as a number of members have previously found!! :o :o :'( :'(
It reminds me I must remove mine!! :P :P
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I think what happens is the powersounder batteries leak 'conductive goo' that shorts out the permanent (CAT 1 requirement - no fuse) feed to the unit.
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It sits just under the drivers side wiper scuttle as part of the alarm system. As Jimbob says the batteries can breakdown and catch fire as a number of members have previously found!!
It reminds me I must remove mine!!
crikey.... can this happen when ya driving? any warnings its gonna happen? :o :o :o
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It sits just under the drivers side wiper scuttle as part of the alarm system. As Jimbob says the batteries can breakdown and catch fire as a number of members have previously found!!
It reminds me I must remove mine!!
crikey.... can this happen when ya driving? any warnings its gonna happen? :o :o :o
Yes I believe it did happen to one member whilst driving, but usually it is when the car is parked up as in this case.
There would seem to be little warning it is going to happen, apart from sometimes beeps are heard coming from the sounder days before it goes up!! :o :o :o :o ;)
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:o Oh Kev....I`m feeling gutted for you! :'(
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It sits just under the drivers side wiper scuttle as part of the alarm system. As Jimbob says the batteries can breakdown and catch fire as a number of members have previously found!!
It reminds me I must remove mine!!
crikey.... can this happen when ya driving? any warnings its gonna happen? :o :o :o
when ours went, we heard a feeble alarm go off (we were inside, car had sat for 12 iirc hours untouched), went out to a trace of smoke...I managed to put it out.
here is our thread :
http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1259433462
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Another good reason to rip the bloody thing out >:(
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what happens if you remove it?? will you not hear the alarm go off??
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:o :o
dont know what must be said really.. but I'm sure it hurts :( :(
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what happens if you remove it?? will you not hear the alarm go off??
No. Don't you know anything? ;D
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A sobering sight indeed. :(
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what happens if you remove it?? will you not hear the alarm go off??
No. Don't you know anything? ;D
i no sod all, i dont get paid to know anything. :)
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what happens if you remove it?? will you not hear the alarm go off??
No. Don't you know anything? ;D
i no sod all, i dont get paid to know anything. :)
Just disconnect the little tinker. Five minute job and saves a lot of grief.
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what happens if you remove it?? will you not hear the alarm go off??
No. Don't you know anything? ;D
i no sod all, i dont get paid to know anything. :)
Just disconnect the little tinker. Five minute job and saves a lot of grief.
ok, will do when i go to mummys on sunday :)
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what happens if you remove it?? will you not hear the alarm go off??
No. Don't you know anything? ;D
i no sod all, i dont get paid to know anything. :)
Just disconnect the little tinker. Five minute job and saves a lot of grief.
ok, will do when i go to mummys on sunday :)
If you wan't to know how it's done, ask someone who gives a break :y
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Sympathies mate & thanks for the lesson. Next time i'm at MM's mine will be disconnected, stuff the alarm. I love the Beastie that much you'd see a grown man cry if that happened to her, i'd be mortified.
Besides she's got to last til i can afford the Monaro which i will get....one day....DROOL!!!!!
Hope you get a good enough payout to replace her with. Guy. :'(
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what happens if you remove it?? will you not hear the alarm go off??
I'm pretty sure this is a 'secondary' alarm, to protect if someone disconnects the battery (it has its own power source, which is the issue). Disconnecting it does not mean you don't still have a main alarm powered by the car battery.
I'm sure an expert will confirm.
Mines been disconnected for a year or two now - too many flat batteries.
Pat
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as this isn't a fault i was aware of, and my car's been stood for 2 weeks, and will be for a good few more, is it wise i remove mine??
what needs removing? the power sounder or just the batteries? is it a necessary thing to have or doesn it make very little difference not having it?
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as this isn't a fault i was aware of, and my car's been stood for 2 weeks, and will be for a good few more, is it wise i remove mine??
what needs removing? the power sounder or just the batteries? is it a necessary thing to have or doesn it make very little difference not having it?
It`s bolted (along with the 'other' real alarm horn) to the rear face of the offside suspension turret, underneath the plastic scuttle, Danny.....you can simply remove the block shaped power-sounder and leave the alarm horn connected so you still have an alarm.....before doing anything though, you need to do: ignition-on, then off and disconnect the battery +ve within 15-30 seconds, or the powersounder will scream for help. ;D
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what would happen if i wore rubber gloves and rubber shoes, left the battery +ve on and just ripped the power sounder battery out?
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what would happen if i wore rubber gloves and rubber shoes, left the battery +ve on and just ripped the power sounder battery out?
If it's still working it will scream at you till the batteries go flat.
The key on then disconnect main battery within 10 seconds bit tells the power sounder not to trigger as the battery is going to be disconnected, then you can remove it in silence.
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what would happen if i wore rubber gloves and rubber shoes, left the battery +ve on and just ripped the power sounder battery out?
If it's still working it will scream at you till the batteries go flat.
The key on then disconnect main battery within 10 seconds bit tells the power sounder not to trigger as the battery is going to be disconnected, then you can remove it in silence.
Mine continued to spontaneously 'sound-off' following removal, until it was dropped into a bucket water.....`very satisfying; having endured weeks of it`s false alarms (night and day). ;D
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what would happen if i wore rubber gloves and rubber shoes, left the battery +ve on and just ripped the power sounder battery out?
If it's still working it will scream at you till the batteries go flat.
The key on then disconnect main battery within 10 seconds bit tells the power sounder not to trigger as the battery is going to be disconnected, then you can remove it in silence.
Mine continued to spontaneously 'sound-off' following removal, until it was dropped into a bucket water.....`very satisfying; having endured weeks of it`s false alarms (night and day). ;D
Must have been thirsty. ;D
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what would happen if i wore rubber gloves and rubber shoes, left the battery +ve on and just ripped the power sounder battery out?
I don't think you would get the battery out, its sealed inside the unit and requires some cutting to get out. To replace the batteries is not difficult, once its open, however I wonder if the answer is not to simply fit a properly rated fuse in the feed line to it. A simple in line fuse holder like we used to use for radios etc, would stop the car battery discharging through any short, while leaving the sounder working.
Ken
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For those who are going to disconnect their power sounder.
Afaik - disconnection wont prevent it from catching fire. It needs to be removed from the car altogether, and have the batteries removed. :y
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so sorry to hear about this mate, i know i'd be absolutely gutted if it happened to mine. just hope you get some form of payout to get a replacement miggy soon. not heard of this before and its quite scary to say the least!
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For those who are not aware of this, here is a link that will show you how to disconnect your power sounder. However, if you are going this far it would be safer all round to remove it completely from the car and discard it safely.
Don't leave it lying in your garage they can still self combust.
http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1220198611
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i am so sorry to see that, that's gotta be devastating, i went to remove mine on advice from the forum only to find it had already been removed and this is in a car that has only ever been serviced by vauxhall (or opel! over here) so quite clearly a cause for concern if they didn't even want to put one back in (although it's a swiss car and maybe car theft isn't a high priority there!)
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Sorry for your loss Mantagte, I'd be totally gutted if that were to happen to mine as I'm sure anyone on here would.
I had mine removed a few years ago due to it making chirping noises, been meaning to get it replaced ever since as I get no alarm sound at all now. But I never knew there was such an issue with the unit.
Slightly worried now as I can't remember what I did with it, it was in the boot for ages but it could be in my shed or house now!! :'( I better try find it!
Wonder why my horn does not go off either though?
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exactly the reason why on all 3 of ours i have removed it!
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my sounder was disconnected when I got the car but I did not realise that the batterys inside can still ignite without help from the main battery,job for later today methinks.
sorry for your loss mantagte,hope the insurance compnay see you right
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right must remember to remove mine and safely store it under the wifes side of the bed ;D
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i am so sorry to see that, that's gotta be devastating, i went to remove mine on advice from the forum only to find it had already been removed and this is in a car that has only ever been serviced by vauxhall (or opel! over here) so quite clearly a cause for concern if they didn't even want to put one back in (although it's a swiss car and maybe car theft isn't a high priority there!)
Assuming yours is LHD I wouldn't be surprised if it simply never had one; AFAIK they're there for the Thatcham CAT1 alarm certification, which doesn't exist in mainland Europe (or anywhere but England) as far as I know.
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Are all the Mig alarms with power sounder CAT1 then? I have mine down as CAT2 on insurance because thats what I thought it was.
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Are all the Mig alarms with power sounder CAT1 then? I have mine down as CAT2 on insurance because thats what I thought it was.
You should just tell 'em it's 'factory fit' and let them work out what level it is.
I had this 'debate' many years ago with the numpty on the other end of the phone when she asked what make my standard fit Senator alarm was. She insisted it must have a 'name' on it ...... :-?
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Think mine has been removed or at least disconnected, certainly had never sounded off whenever I've disconnected the battery. Looks I should check sooner rather than later, I'd be devastated if that happened to me.
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God that is truly shocking! I really feel for you both :(
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Are all the Mig alarms with power sounder CAT1 then? I have mine down as CAT2 on insurance because thats what I thought it was.
You should just tell 'em it's 'factory fit' and let them work out what level it is.
I had this 'debate' many years ago with the numpty on the other end of the phone when she asked what make my standard fit Senator alarm was. She insisted it must have a 'name' on it ...... :-?
I have but I seem to remember there being 2 options Factory Fit Cat 1 & Factory Fit Cat 2. I am not 100% though.
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For those who are not aware of this, here is a link that will show you how to disconnect your power sounder. However, if you are going this far it would be safer all round to remove it completely from the car and discard it safely.
Don't leave it lying in your garage they can still self combust.
http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1220198611
Good point. When I removed mine I split it open and the removed the batterys - which had just started to leak. ;)
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i am so sorry to see that, that's gotta be devastating, i went to remove mine on advice from the forum only to find it had already been removed and this is in a car that has only ever been serviced by vauxhall (or opel! over here) so quite clearly a cause for concern if they didn't even want to put one back in (although it's a swiss car and maybe car theft isn't a high priority there!)
Assuming yours is LHD I wouldn't be surprised if it simply never had one; AFAIK they're there for the Thatcham CAT1 alarm certification, which doesn't exist in mainland Europe (or anywhere but England) as far as I know.
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Pretty sure its the same throughout the U.K. ;)
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Just going out to take mine off having seen this. What implications does removal have, other than preventing auto-combustion, and making battery removal much easier.? :-? :y
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right must remember to remove mine and safely store it under the ex-wife ;D
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Just going out to take mine off having seen this. What implications does removal have, other than preventing auto-combustion, and making battery removal much easier.? :-? :y
The obvious one would be insurance......the protection would (technically) be reduced; but if you leave the main alarm-sounder horn in place there`s still a functioning alarm, deadlocks and (of course) the immobiliser to protect the car. :y
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Just going out to take mine off having seen this. What implications does removal have, other than preventing auto-combustion, and making battery removal much easier.? :-? :y
The obvious one would be insurance......the protection would (technically) be reduced; but if you leave the main alarm-sounder horn in place there`s still a functioning alarm, deadlocks and (of course) the immobiliser to protect the car. :y
Thanks Debs :y
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For interest, I've just taken mine off, and disconnected, as per battery, within 15 secs of ign off. Not a peep out of it. So its either fubarred or this mimics battery disconnection to it's satisfaction.
I wonder if it'll go on e-bay. ::) ::) ::)
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i am so sorry to see that, that's gotta be devastating, i went to remove mine on advice from the forum only to find it had already been removed and this is in a car that has only ever been serviced by vauxhall (or opel! over here) so quite clearly a cause for concern if they didn't even want to put one back in (although it's a swiss car and maybe car theft isn't a high priority there!)
Assuming yours is LHD I wouldn't be surprised if it simply never had one; AFAIK they're there for the Thatcham CAT1 alarm certification, which doesn't exist in mainland Europe (or anywhere but England) as far as I know.
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Pretty sure its the same throughout the U.K. ;)
Bah, good point ;D You knew what I meant :P
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WARNING, the plastic fasteners under the w/s seal that retain the back of the scuttle, are NOT captive :-[ :-[ :-[, as I have just found out to my cost, two of which have decided that they enjoyed their new found freedom, and preferred the darkness of the engine bay. >:( >:( >:( :y
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been offered £850 less the excess
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been offered £850 less the excess
:(....... :-?........ >:(
First offers are always cheeky! ;)
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been offered £850 less the excess
find expensive adverts for similar cars to fight back with, should be able to get another few hundred with a bit of luck
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Not wishing to be alarmist, but I recall hearing/reading something some years back that said there was a hazard present in burnt-out vehicles in the form of hydrofluoric acid.
Not sure if this is still the case?
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Not wishing to be alarmist, but I recall hearing/reading something some years back that said there was a hazard present in burnt-out vehicles in the form of hydrofluoric acid.
Not sure if this is still the case?
I also recall that it's very nasty stuff. It is extremely corrosive (it can melt glass) toxic, and hard to neutralise. IIRC it is produced when certain synthetic rubber compounds are burnt.
Does any one know if there is a risk of it being present around the power sounder battery?
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Not wishing to be alarmist, but I recall hearing/reading something some years back that said there was a hazard present in burnt-out vehicles in the form of hydrofluoric acid.
Not sure if this is still the case?
I also recall that it's very nasty stuff. It is extremely corrosive (it can melt glass) toxic, and hard to neutralise. IIRC it is produced when certain synthetic rubber compounds are burnt.
Does any one know if there is a risk of it being present around the power sounder battery?
It is also a contact poison, readily absorbed through the skin. Once so absorbed, amputation is often the only remedy :o
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrofluoric_acid
"Hydrogen fluoride is generated upon combustion of many fluorine-containing compounds such as products containing Viton and polytetrafluoroethylene (Teflon) parts. Hydrogen fluoride converts immediately to hydrofluoric acid upon contact with liquid water"
:(
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Yep, burning/burnt cars are not pleasant places to be around/near. Used to hate picking them up when on recovery because the smell/dangerous substances stay on you for ages :(
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I ripped mine out years ago, I dread to think of the result if that had been in an attached garage and gone up in the middle of the night :o kids in bed etc
I have said on these threads that some form of warning to newbies should exist about the powersounder issue, this car is the 5th I can remember self igniting, can we prevent some more???
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:'( :'( :'(
I'm totally GUTTED!
My Omega Elite 3 litre Estate caught fire on wednesday evening in exactly the same way as has been described in this thread. All the damage is in the same area as in the poor fellows who started this post.
So wish I'd known as I really liked that car and had spent a lot of money on it. Thank you though for enlightening me. Thought it was something I'd done (even though I knew I had done nothing to cause it :-/). Feel a little bit better now...but not much. Scary!
Oh, by the way, I'm new. Hi People!
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:'( :'( :'(
I'm totally GUTTED!
My Omega Elite 3 litre Estate caught fire on wednesday evening in exactly the same way as has been described in this thread. All the damage is in the same area as in the poor fellows who started this post.
So wish I'd known as I really liked that car and had spent a lot of money on it. Thank you though for enlightening me. Thought it was something I'd done (even though I knew I had done nothing to cause it :-/). Feel a little bit better now...but not much. Scary!
Oh, by the way, I'm new. Hi People!
Hello & Welcome mate, though in the circumstances, a bit subdued! I'm really sorry to hear you've fallen victim to the 'hidden peril' :(
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Cheers Philrich.
Mantagte - sorry about your loss. I know all too well how you're feeling at the mo. Keep us posted how much they pay out. Which insurance company are you with?
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I ripped mine out years ago, I dread to think of the result if that had been in an attached garage and gone up in the middle of the night :o kids in bed etc
I have said on these threads that some form of warning to newbies should exist about the powersounder issue, this car is the 5th I can remember self igniting, can we prevent some more???
God works in mysterious ways. ::)
And if the five you know about were in Liverpool, I very much doubt it was spontaneous combustion ;D
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God works in mysterious ways. ::)
And if the five you know about were in Liverpool, I very much doubt it was spontaneous combustion ;D
Followers of the God; "Twoc".........whose youthful adherents are told to go joyously-forth and 'steal' themselves for the coming of the ANPR Devils. ;D
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Not good news for anyone ... :(
So lets do some research ... could all those who have ACTUALLY experienced this problem "first hand" please post up the year of the car/model/engine on which it occured ... no guesses or "my mates was" please ...lets go for a high degree of accuracy ......
Lets see if there is any commonality to possible age of car/model/engine type .... etc
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1997 'P'
Omega Elite Estate
3 litre V6
100,763 miles
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Jan 1999 (S)
Omega CD Estate
2.0
103,000 mls
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1998
3.0 MV6 Estate
about 105K miles
Virtually no damage as we heard it 'calling for help' and I had put it out and stripped it down before the fire brigade arrived
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find expensive adverts for similar cars to fight back with, should be able to get another few hundred with a bit of luck
if you do not agree to the price offered
do you disagree by telephone or letter?
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1998
3.0 MV6 Estate
about 105K miles
Virtually no damage as we heard it 'calling for help' and I had put it out and stripped it down before the fire brigade arrived
Could I ask what was the actual cause of this, was it the power sounder on fire ?.
Sorry, my brain can't see how it can go on fire, NICAD's tend to just get hot, then the vent opens, hydorgen and water come out and that's it. Plus the battery is only about 100mAH when new, so not much capacity, plus its about 10 years old, so will be fairly worn out.
I got the feeling it might be the powersounder going short, poss the battery leaking and corroding something, and taking the 12V unfused feed from the battery to deck, so this will get very hot, prob melt the wire insulation, which will short all over the place. Hence my earlier suggestion that a fuse in the line should stop this happening again.
This is my theory, I may be totally wrong, but I'd like to get to the bottom of this so no-one elses car goes up.
Ken
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1998
3.0 MV6 Estate
about 105K miles
Virtually no damage as we heard it 'calling for help' and I had put it out and stripped it down before the fire brigade arrived
Could I ask what was the actual cause of this, was it the power sounder on fire ?.
Sorry, my brain can't see how it can go on fire, NICAD's tend to just get hot, then the vent opens, hydorgen and water come out and that's it. Plus the battery is only about 100mAH when new, so not much capacity, plus its about 10 years old, so will be fairly worn out.
I got the feeling it might be the powersounder going short, poss the battery leaking and corroding something, and taking the 12V unfused feed from the battery to deck, so this will get very hot, prob melt the wire insulation, which will short all over the place. Hence my earlier suggestion that a fuse in the line should stop this happening again.
This is my theory, I may be totally wrong, but I'd like to get to the bottom of this so no-one elses car goes up.
Ken
As I understand the theory ... it's not the nicads that cause the fire itself .. but the car battery !!!
The power sounder is connected directly to the battery .. as it actually senses if the battery is disconnected incorrectly. The nicads are also charged by the car 12v systems, so require a connection for that purpose.
When the nicads leak through old age ?? misuse ?? whatever it is ... they "leak" a corrosive substance onto the PCB inside the powersounder. This can cause a short which then allows the car battery output to run through the powersounder uncontrolled.... as the car battery is capable of supplying mega amps the heat build up can be fast and extrme .. so leading to the fire.
Now my understanding might be wrong .. if so I await correction .. but that is the bare bones of the problem I believe.
The reason some have caught fire "on the shelf" is, I believe that although a nicad is designed to only provide milliamps .. when shorted the whole capacity can be delivered in a very short time .... and that causes much heat. If you don't believe me .. try shorting a CR2032 with a paperclip .. you won't hold it for very long I assure you ... and the nicads in the power sounder are a lot bigger !!
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So if the line were fused it would solve the problem ?. It can't take very much current, Piezo sounders take not a lot, so a half amp fuse at the battery might solve it ?.
Ken
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So, is the answer to simply fit a fuse in the supply from the battery? or am I looking at this too simply?.... :-/ :-/ :-/
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So, is the answer to simply fit a fuse in the supply from the battery? or am I looking at this too simply?.... :-/ :-/ :-/
throw it in the bin/battery recyling facility/pond
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That's why we need more information from cars that have just started to go, and then been stopped, exactly what was the problem.
I personally think having an unfused supply is asking for trouble, a potential time bomb, as cables will eventually break down, esp in the car environment, which can go from - 10 to +50 deg C very quickly, which will harden cables and make them crack. An unfused line is asking for trouble, and its only to GM's credit that it appears to last about 10 years before going bad.
A last thought, to those who have disconnected the power sounder, did you insulate the plug ?. I'd hate it to short against some metal, and .........
Ken
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That's why we need more information from cars that have just started to go, and then been stopped, exactly what was the problem.
I personally think having an unfused supply is asking for trouble, a potential time bomb, as cables will eventually break down, esp in the car environment, which can go from - 10 to +50 deg C very quickly, which will harden cables and make them crack. An unfused line is asking for trouble, and its only to GM's credit that it appears to last about 10 years before going bad.
A last thought, to those who have disconnected the power sounder, did you insulate the plug ?. I'd hate it to short against some metal, and .........
Ken
Taped mine up good and proper :y
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That's why we need more information from cars that have just started to go, and then been stopped, exactly what was the problem.
I personally think having an unfused supply is asking for trouble, a potential time bomb, as cables will eventually break down, esp in the car environment, which can go from - 10 to +50 deg C very quickly, which will harden cables and make them crack. An unfused line is asking for trouble, and its only to GM's credit that it appears to last about 10 years before going bad.
A last thought, to those who have disconnected the power sounder, did you insulate the plug ?. I'd hate it to short against some metal, and .........
Ken
Taped mine up good and proper :y
:y :y :y
Ken
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That's why we need more information from cars that have just started to go, and then been stopped, exactly what was the problem.
I personally think having an unfused supply is asking for trouble, a potential time bomb, as cables will eventually break down, esp in the car environment, which can go from - 10 to +50 deg C very quickly, which will harden cables and make them crack. An unfused line is asking for trouble, and its only to GM's credit that it appears to last about 10 years before going bad.
A last thought, to those who have disconnected the power sounder, did you insulate the plug ?. I'd hate it to short against some metal, and .........
Ken
My thoughts exactly. Wire feeding the sounder is 0.75mm2 if memory serves. Might even be 0.5. Lunacy for it not to be protected with a fuse.
I suspect the feed is via one of the large cables to the fusebox area and then on, in weedy cable, to the sounder. This would account for the fact that there is normally also damage in the dashboard area when on combusts.
A power sounder only takes 250mA or so from the 12v supply when sounding.
Kevin
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been speaking to my brother in law and his 2000 (x) Zafira tried the same/similar
last year
located in passenger side wheel arch under plastic trim
his started smoking at the MOT station
they ripped it out for him
he said no he will not replace it
not just omegas
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Vectra B , Astra G and Frontera B too I believe .
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What about Corsa's?
Ten days ago, a woman popped into the Post Office in the village up the road from me and left her child in car. The car was an '02 reg Corsa. Anyway, while she was queuing she looked out and saw that the car had caught fire under the bonnet, so of course rushed out to retrieve her child.
This Powersounder problem makes a big, strong, safe car an absolute death trap, especially if you applied the circumstances of the Corsa woman (leaving your child in the car, or if your wife/girlfriend/boyfriend/husband is asleep in the car while you pop into a shop, nip to a bush...).
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So, is the answer to simply fit a fuse in the supply from the battery? or am I looking at this too simply?.... :-/ :-/ :-/
Personally I would put an inline fuse adjacent to the sounder. That way it's got the protection of being under the scuttle and not easy for someone to remove in advance of theft.
I know stealing an Omega is not the highest of probabilities but Insurance Companies would like to see some attention to detail I'm sure.
PS. In view of the known issues, this is one occasion when I would agree that the main battery should be disconnected before work is carried out! ;D ;D
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the reason vauxhall and outher makers dont fit an inline fuse is if they did the alarm wouldnt meet thatham cat1 or cat2.most alarms that are cat1 or 2 are the same
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the reason vauxhall and outher makers dont fit an inline fuse is if they did the alarm wouldnt meet thatham cat1 or cat2.most alarms that are cat1 or 2 are the same
There's clearly a shortage of electrical engineers at Thatcham then. ::)
Kevin
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I wonder if some alarm sounders have fuses inside the casing? Obviously you'd never be able to change the fuse, but that way it would meet Cat1/2 and be incapable of shorting out the rest of the car wiring..
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was told that if its got an inline fuse then if sum toerag takes a fangy to your car if they know wht there doing they can just pull the fuse.i think alot of it is down to theveing ins companys
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I wonder if some alarm sounders have fuses inside the casing? Obviously you'd never be able to change the fuse, but that way it would meet Cat1/2 and be incapable of shorting out the rest of the car wiring..
That would have been the obvious way to do it, and if I were to replace the batteries in one from now on I'd probably add a little PCB mounted fuse in there..
Sill, even an inline fuse is no less secure than a unit you can simply unplug, so why would it be outlawed by Thatcham approval if, like the whole sounder, it were fitted in a suitable location?
Kevin
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im not a 100% sure but i think its got sumthing to do with gaining acess to the car and bypassing the alarm and how easy it is to get to alarm componants.and i think they dont have a fuse becose if it blows for amy reason when the bats lose charge theres no power going to the unit to charge it.there dont realy seem a way round it.dut i can see in years to come with new cars now where there so complex with so many ecus and eletric everything that these sort of things will be more common
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im not a 100% sure but i think its got sumthing to do with gaining acess to the car and bypassing the alarm and how easy it is to get to alarm componants.and i think they dont have a fuse becose if it blows for amy reason when the bats lose charge theres no power going to the unit to charge it.there dont realy seem a way round it.dut i can see in years to come with new cars now where there so complex with so many ecus and eletric everything that these sort of things will be more common
I can sort-of see their reasoning but it's flawed. The fuse would only blow if there was a fault in the sounder, in which case it's unlikely to be providing any protection. If the fuse is not easily accessible to a potential thief I cannot see what harm it could do.
Kevin
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it would make sence to you and me.but when do car makers ao anything that makes sence
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it would make sence to you and me.but when do car makers ao anything that makes sence
Fair comment. :y
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im not a 100% sure but i think its got sumthing to do with gaining acess to the car and bypassing the alarm and how easy it is to get to alarm componants.and i think they dont have a fuse becose if it blows for amy reason when the bats lose charge theres no power going to the unit to charge it.there dont realy seem a way round it.dut i can see in years to come with new cars now where there so complex with so many ecus and eletric everything that these sort of things will be more common
The answer is you put in the fuse and get the PS to talk to the diagnostics to let you know the fuse has gone.
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The answer is you put in the fuse and get the PS to talk to the diagnostics to let you know the fuse has gone.
Yep, also not rocket science.
I think the power sounder install was a kludge to satisfy a requirement unique to the UK market so it probably didn't benefit from as much attention to detail as the design of the rest of the vehicle.
Kevin
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That's why we need more information from cars that have just started to go, and then been stopped, exactly what was the problem.
I personally think having an unfused supply is asking for trouble, a potential time bomb, as cables will eventually break down, esp in the car environment, which can go from - 10 to +50 deg C very quickly, which will harden cables and make them crack. An unfused line is asking for trouble, and its only to GM's credit that it appears to last about 10 years before going bad.
A last thought, to those who have disconnected the power sounder, did you insulate the plug ?. I'd hate it to short against some metal, and .........
Ken
I sealed mine in the cut-off thumb of a latex glove (I don't carry condoms any more!) :y
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if the powersounder battery combustion is a result of it shorting out while still receiving power from the car's battery, doesn't this mean there's actually no chance of it self-combusting if i removed mine and left it in the shed??
by the way, the car's +ve battery terminal, is this the one hampered by the fuse box or the one i can see?
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1998
3.0 MV6 Estate
about 105K miles
Virtually no damage as we heard it 'calling for help' and I had put it out and stripped it down before the fire brigade arrived
Could I ask what was the actual cause of this, was it the power sounder on fire ?.
Sorry, my brain can't see how it can go on fire, NICAD's tend to just get hot, then the vent opens, hydorgen and water come out and that's it. Plus the battery is only about 100mAH when new, so not much capacity, plus its about 10 years old, so will be fairly worn out.
I got the feeling it might be the powersounder going short, poss the battery leaking and corroding something, and taking the 12V unfused feed from the battery to deck, so this will get very hot, prob melt the wire insulation, which will short all over the place. Hence my earlier suggestion that a fuse in the line should stop this happening again.
This is my theory, I may be totally wrong, but I'd like to get to the bottom of this so no-one elses car goes up.
Ken
certainly, was definately the power sounder on fire and nothing else at all. Evidence at http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1259433462
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1998
3.0 MV6 Estate
about 105K miles
Virtually no damage as we heard it 'calling for help' and I had put it out and stripped it down before the fire brigade arrived
Could I ask what was the actual cause of this, was it the power sounder on fire ?.
Sorry, my brain can't see how it can go on fire, NICAD's tend to just get hot, then the vent opens, hydorgen and water come out and that's it. Plus the battery is only about 100mAH when new, so not much capacity, plus its about 10 years old, so will be fairly worn out.
I got the feeling it might be the powersounder going short, poss the battery leaking and corroding something, and taking the 12V unfused feed from the battery to deck, so this will get very hot, prob melt the wire insulation, which will short all over the place. Hence my earlier suggestion that a fuse in the line should stop this happening again.
This is my theory, I may be totally wrong, but I'd like to get to the bottom of this so no-one elses car goes up.
Ken
certainly, was definately the power sounder on fire and nothing else at all. Evidence at http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1259433462
Thanks Jimbob,
That looks like an internal short, dragging many amps thro the connector, which is poss a bit corroded so its acts like a resistance, and will get very hot, melting and setting fire to the casing. I still think it will melt the wire insulation causing most of the damage. So an inline fuse it is, I would prefer to fit it next to the source, eg the car battery, so it protects against any damage to the wire feeding the sounder. Any ideas as to the best position ?.
Ken
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Thanks Jimbob,
That looks like an internal short, dragging many amps thro the connector, which is poss a bit corroded so its acts like a resistance, and will get very hot, melting and setting fire to the casing. I still think it will melt the wire insulation causing most of the damage. So an inline fuse it is, I would prefer to fit it next to the source, eg the car battery, so it protects against any damage to the wire feeding the sounder. Any ideas as to the best position ?.
Ken
Agreed. Not sure where the really thin part of the PS wiring starts. The feed from the fusible link probably ends up in the fuse box in the dash, so, at a guess, I'd say that's where the weedy wiring begins. This would tally with evidence of fire damage in this area too.
Kevin