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Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: Banjax on 16 April 2011, 08:12:46

Title: Chinese GP ***with spoilers, probably***
Post by: Banjax on 16 April 2011, 08:12:46
well done DiResta - nice job outquallying Sutil again and a top ten grid spot  :y


and Webber - you got too cocky thinking you could piss it without KERS and on hard tyres.............no where near  :o
Title: Re: Chinese GP ***with spoilers, probably***
Post by: Banjax on 16 April 2011, 08:19:42
sorry Webber - Horners just said it was the teams decision with the tyres  :(
Title: Re: Chinese GP ***with spoilers, probably***
Post by: Shimmy on 16 April 2011, 08:39:47
Jup, good b'day prezzie for himself by Di Resta.  Rosberg's done v well to get 4th too, Torro Rosso's done well.

Engineers for Webber and Heidfeld were too cocky trying to save tyres and paid the price.

Hope the McLaren's have a good start tomorrow and can live with Vettel's race pace, Hamilton certainly seems to be in a good position with so many new tyres available.
Title: Re: Chinese GP ***with spoilers, probably***
Post by: Banjax on 16 April 2011, 10:46:01
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Jup, good b'day prezzie for himself by Di Resta.  Rosberg's done v well to get 4th too, Torro Rosso's done well.

Engineers for Webber and Heidfeld were too cocky trying to save tyres and paid the price.

Hope the McLaren's have a good start tomorrow and can live with Vettel's race pace, Hamilton certainly seems to be in a good position with so many new tyres available.

yeah i think he's done the right thing - those new tyres are made of licorice i reckon - they fall to bits very quickly (they're saying they were designed that way......maybe, or maybe thats the story Pirelli and Bernie have cobbled together to save blushes? ::))
Title: Re: Chinese GP ***with spoilers, probably***
Post by: TheBoy on 16 April 2011, 10:58:51
I'll be washing my hair  :-X
Title: Re: Chinese GP ***with spoilers, probably***
Post by: Banjax on 16 April 2011, 11:08:32
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I'll be washing my hair  :-X

at 6am?  :o
Title: Re: Chinese GP ***with spoilers, probably***
Post by: Shimmy on 16 April 2011, 11:35:26
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Jup, good b'day prezzie for himself by Di Resta.  Rosberg's done v well to get 4th too, Torro Rosso's done well.

Engineers for Webber and Heidfeld were too cocky trying to save tyres and paid the price.

Hope the McLaren's have a good start tomorrow and can live with Vettel's race pace, Hamilton certainly seems to be in a good position with so many new tyres available.

yeah i think he's done the right thing - those new tyres are made of licorice i reckon - they fall to bits very quickly (they're saying they were designed that way......maybe, or maybe thats the story Pirelli and Bernie have cobbled together to save blushes? ::))

Nope it's true, the teams (FOTA) asked Pirelli tyres to degrade quickly as per the Canadian GP last year.

At first Pirelli were producing tyres that lasted too long in testing.  They're performing exactly as asked atm, although I think they're looking to reduce the 'marbling' effect.
Title: Re: Chinese GP ***with spoilers, probably***
Post by: albitz on 16 April 2011, 11:37:42
Which proves the point that the whole thing becomes more contrived every season. ;)
Title: Re: Chinese GP ***with spoilers, probably***
Post by: TheBoy on 16 April 2011, 11:53:37
Make tyres last the race, then the retards would have to overtake on track
Title: Re: Chinese GP ***with spoilers, probably***
Post by: albitz on 16 April 2011, 11:58:38
Yep, it really is that simple. :y
Title: Re: Chinese GP ***with spoilers, probably***
Post by: Shimmy on 16 April 2011, 12:04:37
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Make tyres last the race, then the retards would have to overtake on track

Tyre's aren't the problem, aerodynamics are.

Tyre's lasted the race distance last year, there was just a mandatory tyre stop to use both compounds.
Title: Re: Chinese GP ***with spoilers, probably***
Post by: albitz on 16 April 2011, 12:10:46
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Make tyres last the race, then the retards would have to overtake on track

Tyre's aren't the problem, aerodynamics are.

Tyre's lasted the race distance last year, there was just a mandatory tyre stop to use both compounds.

Contrived and mickey mouse racing again. Just let them race the 70 odd laps and the first one past the flag wins - seemples.
The allegedly cashed strapped teams could also lose a lot of those people in the pits (takes about a dozen blokes to do a pit stop ) and save themselves a fortune in wages. ;)
Title: Re: Chinese GP ***with spoilers, probably***
Post by: tunnie on 16 April 2011, 12:16:18
personally I think they should have a track sprinkler system, at random intervals, they pop up and soak certain sections of the track, or all of it. Should prove entertaining!  :D
Title: Re: Chinese GP ***with spoilers, probably***
Post by: Lazydocker on 16 April 2011, 12:18:26
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I'll be washing my hair  :-X

I bet you're not :-X :-X ;) ;)
Title: Re: Chinese GP ***with spoilers, probably***
Post by: albitz on 16 April 2011, 12:39:56
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personally I think they should have a track sprinkler system, at random intervals, they pop up and soak certain sections of the track, or all of it. Should prove entertaining!  :D

Bernie Ecclestone has seriously proposed doing just that from next year. Cant get much more contrived than that. ::)
Title: Re: Chinese GP ***with spoilers, probably***
Post by: Shimmy on 16 April 2011, 12:54:23
I'd agree that getting rid of pit stops would be a step in the right direction, but it won't help with overtaking or closer racing.

Need to bring back ground effect and reduce the reliance on downforce and resultant dirty air it produces.  Aerodynamic development doesn't serve any purpose for manufacturers, needs to be emphasis on mechanical development and engines in fuel economy.


Bernie isn't serious about sprinkler systems it's just his classic throw away bs suggestion to get the media talking about F1.  He mentioned it just before the season started, coincidence eh?!
Title: Re: Chinese GP ***with spoilers, probably***
Post by: albitz on 16 April 2011, 13:00:15
Abolishing pit stops would help with overtaking because the engineers would then be forced to design cars which were capable of getting close to and overtaking other cars out on the circuit, as they would have no other means of gaining places.
As someone once said "when youve got them by the balls their hearts and minds will follow. ;)
".
Title: Re: Chinese GP ***with spoilers, probably***
Post by: Shimmy on 16 April 2011, 13:07:54
Yeah you're right, engineers just rely on pit stops to pass cars and sit on their hands when it comes to developing cars..

Active suspension, ground effect, semi automatic gears, brake assist, traction control, launch control, double diffusers, f ducts, flexi wings, blown diffusers are all just a figure of my imagination.
Title: Re: Chinese GP ***with spoilers, probably***
Post by: albitz on 16 April 2011, 13:26:23
Not talking about vehicle development. Talking about motor racing.
Ive been watching F1 since the mid 70,s - used to be a big fan of it. I find it fairly tedious now.It has gone up several technollogical blind alleys which have ruined the racing, and they keep coming up with contrived, mickey mouse solutions to try to solve the problem, but it hasnt worked.
At the  moment Adrian Newey is winning the championship, the same as he did when he was at Mclaren, and Williams before that.
It should be about great drivers pitting themselves against each other in very fast cars - on the ragged edge of mechanical grip, making for spectacular racing. The essential ingredient for any good motor sport is that the power out put should be easily capable of overcoming the grip level, and the best drivers feeling the limit through their arse and inner ear balance, and reacting to it.Pure racing really started dying when Colin Chapman "discovered" ground effect. All those technical advancements you mention have ruined F1 during the 35 years I have been watching it. ;)
Title: Re: Chinese GP ***with spoilers, probably***
Post by: Shimmy on 16 April 2011, 13:51:04
You need to re-read what I've posted then.

I've said twice in this thread that aero developments have ruined chances of close wheel to wheel racing.  You've said get rid of tyre changes (which I agree with), but that simply won't solve the problem. 

I too would like to see mechanical developments and have said so further up in the thread as it's more useful than aerodynamics for manufacturers, but the regulations have the forbidden that over the years.

I'm not a fan of KERS, I think the compound rule is stupid and DRS I hate as it's trying to mask the aero problem with something artificial.  If you read again you'll find you're agreeing with a lot of what I've said.

What I'm disagreeing with is that engineers would suddenly find a way of closing up to cars if pit stops were removed.
Title: Re: Chinese GP ***with spoilers, probably***
Post by: albitz on 16 April 2011, 14:23:37
Fair comment - we are in agreement on several points. My rationale is that if they were put ion the position where the only opportunity to gain places was to overtake on the circuit, the designers would probably change direction with aerodynamics, and would have to sacrifice aerodynamic purity (from the point of view of ultimate aero grip) in order to allow the cars to run close together and overtake each other easier.
Less aero grip and more mechanical grip = the way foward imo. :y
Title: Re: Chinese GP ***with spoilers, probably***
Post by: Mysteryman on 16 April 2011, 18:15:18
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I'll be washing my hair  :-X

at 6am?  :o


7am.
Title: Re: Chinese GP ***with spoilers, probably***
Post by: albitz on 16 April 2011, 18:26:48
I will be washing mine as well. The one on the left this week. I washed the one on the right last week. :D ;D
Title: Re: Chinese GP ***with spoilers, probably***
Post by: Banjax on 17 April 2011, 07:13:25
I do agree that F1 is becoming a bit gimmicky to overcome the inherent problem of overtaking, and I don't think it needs to do that, no matter what rules and regulations are in place, the best car in most cases will be quickest in qually and then disappear during the race - if you had no pit stops and tyres that lasted the entire duration you'd quickly see dull racing - F1 maybe should take a look at what happened in the states with the CART series (Indy Racing League was a breakaway league formed when the racing in Indycar (CART) got dull and predictable, dominated by a few rich teams and heavily reliant on technology........... ::))

A1 racing was supposedly the ideal where drivers all raced in identical cars - that would surely be exciting.....anyone remember that? no?  ;D

nah, its not perfect but its the pinnacle of motorsport in my opinion, how about awarding a point for every overtake? that way teams would start designing cars towards that aim  :o

anyway - im off to make brekkie before the race  ;)
Title: Re: Chinese GP ***with spoilers, probably***
Post by: albitz on 17 April 2011, 07:49:53
I think Hamilton is going to be a bit stressed. ;)
Title: Re: Chinese GP ***with spoilers, probably***
Post by: tunnie on 17 April 2011, 08:37:50
Jenson, grrr you wally! Driving into the wrong pit!  ;D
Title: Re: Chinese GP ***with spoilers, probably***
Post by: Shimmy on 17 April 2011, 09:39:33
OMG

OMG

OMG

What a race!  ;D :D ;D :y
Title: Re: Chinese GP ***with spoilers, probably***
Post by: henryd on 17 April 2011, 09:46:08
That was the best race so far,good close racing :y
Title: Re: Chinese GP ***with spoilers, probably***
Post by: tunnie on 17 April 2011, 09:51:37
Best race in years!
Title: Re: Chinese GP ***with spoilers, probably***
Post by: Chris_H on 17 April 2011, 10:07:41
I watched it in a cafe so the sound was low but the race was exciting.  Hamilton did a great job and I have no idea why Webber is developing a habit of finding his form halfway through the race!  I'm sorry Button didn't make the podium but tough, he should have gone faster. :)
Title: Re: Chinese GP ***with spoilers, probably***
Post by: Varche on 17 April 2011, 11:26:56
Yes, enjoyed that race too. The best man won.

Nice to see Schumacher racy again. In fact there were some quite good drives. Massa for one.

Button? Always said he was a good number two driver for a team. He nearly blew it for them today but for Hamiltons' skill.

I bet The Boy is cursing himself for watching the paint drying DVD I sent him instead of the race! Still he will be quite relaxed. :y
Title: Re: Chinese GP ***with spoilers, probably***
Post by: Martin_1962 on 17 April 2011, 12:23:07
BLoody shite on record >:( >:(

Bloody BGT >:(

Bloddy some crap with Piers Moron >:( >:(

Came down to 100% full and missed the last 18 laps >:( >:(
Title: Re: Chinese GP ***with spoilers, probably***
Post by: tunnie on 17 April 2011, 12:24:08
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BLoody shite on record >:( >:(

Bloody BGT >:(

Bloddy some crap with Piers Moron >:( >:(

Came down to 100% full and missed the last 18 laps >:( >:(

That had some of the best over-takes!  :D
Title: Re: Chinese GP ***with spoilers, probably***
Post by: aaronjb on 17 April 2011, 13:10:29
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Jenson, grrr you wally! Driving into the wrong pit!  ;D

I stuck a fiver on Button to win the championship this year.. that's probably what caused that - I've knobbled his chances by betting on him  ;D
Title: Re: Chinese GP ***with spoilers, probably***
Post by: Martin_1962 on 17 April 2011, 14:07:39
Set the timer up for the repeat
Title: Re: Chinese GP ***with spoilers, probably***
Post by: feeutfo on 17 April 2011, 14:18:41
Good race IMO. Still missed some of the action due to poor direction.

But I tell you what, i wouldn't be happy sitting in the car like Lewis did with all that fuel in the inlet. Maybe he couldn't see from where he was but there was a LOT of fuel sloshing about in there. Then go on and win the race, well done Lewis... And Webber.
Title: Re: Chinese GP ***with spoilers, probably***
Post by: Banjax on 17 April 2011, 14:44:51
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Set the timer up for the repeat


remember and delete something  ;D
Title: Re: Chinese GP ***with spoilers, probably***
Post by: albitz on 17 April 2011, 14:53:13
Hamilton and webber were both pretty impressive. I think if all other things were equal, Hamilton would probably be the class of the field.
Thing is, the reason he had the race he did was because of clever tyre strategy. Its just a shame thet cant all start off on an equal footing and the best driver wins on the day.
James Hunt used to argue that the cars should all have the same engines/ tyres etc, so that it was a race between drivers rather than cars. I quite liked that idea. :)
Title: Re: Chinese GP ***with spoilers, probably***
Post by: feeutfo on 17 April 2011, 15:05:09
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Quote
Set the timer up for the repeat


remember and delete something  ;D
Bloody shite humax box's  ;D
Title: Re: Chinese GP ***with spoilers, probably***
Post by: Banjax on 17 April 2011, 16:43:52
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Hamilton and webber were both pretty impressive. I think if all other things were equal, Hamilton would probably be the class of the field.
Thing is, the reason he had the race he did was because of clever tyre strategy. Its just a shame thet cant all start off on an equal footing and the best driver wins on the day.
James Hunt used to argue that the cars should all have the same engines/ tyres etc, so that it was a race between drivers rather than cars. I quite liked that idea. :)


it was called A1 and it was dreadful  :y
Title: Re: Chinese GP ***with spoilers, probably***
Post by: albitz on 17 April 2011, 17:09:25
So, Hamilton/Button/Vettel/Alonso etc. all racing each other in cars which had the same performance would be dreadful ? ::)
Title: Re: Chinese GP ***with spoilers, probably***
Post by: Omegatoy on 17 April 2011, 18:35:22
was certainly a great race, almost as good as the touring cars!!
loads of action in that too!!! :y
Title: Re: Chinese GP ***with spoilers, probably***
Post by: Banjax on 17 April 2011, 18:35:43
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So, Hamilton/Button/Vettel/Alonso etc. all racing each other in cars which had the same performance would be dreadful ? ::)


strangely yes, it would then focus on the best set up rather than level out the drivers......even worse, the lightest driver would have a massive advantage - you'd end up midget racing  ;)


good question tho - who would win do you reckon? I suspect that Alonso would soon be the class of the field, with Hamilton a close second - Vettel would go to pieces, Buttons a brilliant no.2 but he lacks the arrogance  :o
Title: Re: Chinese GP ***with spoilers, probably***
Post by: Omegatoy on 17 April 2011, 18:38:05
none of the above!! on sheer guts alone weber would be tha one!!
Title: Re: Chinese GP ***with spoilers, probably***
Post by: albitz on 17 April 2011, 18:42:47
I think Hamilton already proved in his first year in F1 that he is more than capable of having Alonso for a light supper - in identical cars.
I think Hamilton would win and Kobayashi would still be the most entertaining to watch, whatever he was driving. :)
Title: Re: Chinese GP ***with spoilers, probably***
Post by: Martin_1962 on 17 April 2011, 18:43:49
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Quote
Set the timer up for the repeat


remember and delete something  ;D


Hmm two weeks of Alan Tithead show
Title: Re: Chinese GP ***with spoilers, probably***
Post by: Banjax on 17 April 2011, 19:06:22
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I think Hamilton already proved in his first year in F1 that he is more than capable of having Alonso for a light supper - in identical cars.
I think Hamilton would win and Kobayashi would still be the most entertaining to watch, whatever he was driving. :)


actually, using todays scoring - Alonso would have beat him by a point in '07  ;)


Title: Re: Chinese GP ***with spoilers, probably***
Post by: albitz on 17 April 2011, 20:38:56
But they werent using todays scoring system. If they had used xx typ of  scoring system in any given year, the bloke who never scored a point could have been world champion - its irrelevant.
Alonso (the double world champion from the cheating Renault team) was so perturbed by being whooped by Hamilton (a rookie) that he had a meeting with Ron Dennis, where he demanded to be made number one driver.When Dennis refused the cheating unsporting little sh1t pointed at his laptop and told him that he had details of Ferraris car for next season, which had come from members of the Mclaren team.
Dennis, to his credit, picked up the phone and told Martin Whitmarsh to come to his office as a witness. He then picked up the phone again and phoned the FIA and told them what Alonso had told him - and thus, we had spygate.
Obviously Ferrari acceeded to his demands last season ( they are more used to being blatantly unfair to accomodate unsporting cheats) as became apparent when Massa was told to slow and let him past. ;)
Title: Re: Chinese GP ***with spoilers, probably***
Post by: albitz on 17 April 2011, 22:10:00
Just started watching world superbikes from Assen(eurosport 2). In the first five laps there has been more overtaking than there will be in the whole season of F1. Proper racing. ;)
Title: Re: Chinese GP ***with spoilers, probably***
Post by: Banjax on 17 April 2011, 22:23:07
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But they werent using todays scoring system. If they had used xx typ of  scoring system in any given year, the bloke who never scored a point could have been world champion - its irrelevant.
Alonso (the double world champion from the cheating Renault team) was so perturbed by being whooped by Hamilton (a rookie) that he had a meeting with Ron Dennis, where he demanded to be made number one driver.When Dennis refused the cheating unsporting little sh1t pointed at his laptop and told him that he had details of Ferraris car for next season, which had come from members of the Mclaren team.
Dennis, to his credit, picked up the phone and told Martin Whitmarsh to come to his office as a witness. He then picked up the phone again and phoned the FIA and told them what Alonso had told him - and thus, we had spygate.
Obviously Ferrari acceeded to his demands last season ( they are more used to being blatantly unfair to accomodate unsporting cheats) as became apparent when Massa was told to slow and let him past. ;)


sorry Albs, but much as i love him, you could be talking about Senna there  :y
Title: Re: Chinese GP ***with spoilers, probably***
Post by: Banjax on 17 April 2011, 22:23:50
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Just started watching world superbikes from Assen(eurosport 2). In the first five laps there has been more overtaking than there will be in the whole season of F1. Proper racing. ;)

sounds a bit Mickey Mouse then  :o
Title: Re: Chinese GP ***with spoilers, probably***
Post by: albitz on 17 April 2011, 22:53:03
Senna was never a cheat in the scumacher Alonso sense - ruthless, utterly determined, but not an unsporting cheat. ;)
WSB -not mickey mouse at all, no contrived rules/pit stops etc. just flat out racing on the ragged edge and may the best man win.Just like F1 should be. ::)
Title: Re: Chinese GP ***with spoilers, probably***
Post by: aaronjb on 17 April 2011, 22:56:01
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Senna was never a cheat in the scumacher Alonso sense - ruthless, utterly determined, but not an unsporting cheat. ;)
WSB -not mickey mouse at all, no contrived rules/pit stops etc. just flat out racing and may the best man win. ::)

Nah, it's not like Senna punted Prost off the track so he couldn't win the championship or anything..

(More than once, if I recall.. though you could of course argue that 'Prost started it' by doing the same thing the previous year..)
Title: Re: Chinese GP ***with spoilers, probably***
Post by: albitz on 17 April 2011, 23:06:27
Thats exactly what I would argue Aaron. Prost had it coming to him. The Senna/ Prost thing was also very personal. They hated the sight of each other. I cant imagine Senna ever demanding though that the team order his team mate not to beat him, like scumacher and Alonso. He was far to good, he didnt need to. ;)
Title: Re: Chinese GP ***with spoilers, probably***
Post by: bob.dent on 18 April 2011, 09:16:17
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I do agree that F1 is becoming a bit gimmicky to overcome the inherent problem of overtaking, and I don't think it needs to do that, no matter what rules and regulations are in place, the best car in most cases will be quickest in qually and then disappear during the race - if you had no pit stops and tyres that lasted the entire duration you'd quickly see dull racing - F1 maybe should take a look at what happened in the states with the CART series (Indy Racing League was a breakaway league formed when the racing in Indycar (CART) got dull and predictable, dominated by a few rich teams and heavily reliant on technology........... ::))

A1 racing was supposedly the ideal where drivers all raced in identical cars - that would surely be exciting.....anyone remember that? no?  ;D

nah, its not perfect but its the pinnacle of motorsport in my opinion, how about awarding a point for every overtake? that way teams would start designing cars towards that aim  :o

anyway - im off to make brekkie before the race  ;)

Yep, I went to the UK round of the A1 championship at Brands Hatch 2 or 3 times - good close racing. :y
Title: Re: Chinese GP ***with spoilers, probably***
Post by: bob.dent on 18 April 2011, 09:27:53
The best dry GP for a long long time! :y Good race by the Brits although Button's break up in the pits cost him dearly. A fantastic drive by Webber - if only he could drive like that from the very start. ::) Paul Di Resta is going to be one to watch, I saw him race in the DTM series which he won last year and he's looking seriously quick in F1.