Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: albitz on 21 September 2011, 09:35:05
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£13.16 billion in August. A new record.Road to recovery ?
To hell in a handcart more like. :o
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Its a good job we are making cut backs or that could have been so much worse!
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Need to make a lot more cutbacks by the look of it. ;)
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it may be a record but.. £13 billion is 13 days expenditure for UK.. from where I know, because I work in govt treasury .. ;D
you must start to think when the amounts exceed % 30 of annual budget..
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Slash benefits for never worked and long term unemployed - ie the not bothering lot (not the lost job help people)
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13 billion in one month though Cem. A lot of money by anyones standards.Debt is at an unprecedented level already and yet we are borrowing more than ever before. Cant be good.
Call me old fashiolned, but to start repaying debt, you need to stop borrowing, then spend less then your income. Otherwise you can never start to repay the debt.
There is waste on a grand scale all over this country, but everyone seems to think that it should be someone else who is responsible for making cutbacks and savings.
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You'd have thought that would have dawned on them by now given the fact that Labour tried the "get out of debt by spending more" option and, surprise, surprise, that didn't go well. ::)
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13 billion in one month though Cem. A lot of money by anyones standards.Debt is at an unprecedented level already and yet we are borrowing more than ever before. Cant be good.
Call me old fashiolned, but to start repaying debt, you need to stop borrowing, then spend less then your income. Otherwise you can never start to repay the debt.
There is waste on a grand scale all over this country, but everyone seems to think that it should be someone else who is responsible for making cutbacks and savings.
Trouble is Albs that it takes years to make the changes (as they should ahev been started years ago and argueably been more under control 10 years ago!)
The key thing is that we are doing something....unlike Greece and Spain, and the consequence is that the organisations that have loaned them money are not confident they will get it back so the credit rate drops, the interest rate goes up (because they are higher risk) and they spiral into effective insolvency.
The spend approach is an interesting scenario as well, yes it would potentialy kick start the economy (but only slightly) however, it would not be doing anything to address debt, in fact it would be making it worse.
This is the point your lenders go 'ow, your in debt and spending still'...bad credit rating arrives, cost of the debt goes up.....and the consequences are worse!
To me the spend approach only works if you have some debt but not a stupid amount, sadly we have a stupid amount! ;D
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Agreed. :y Half of the EU is now insolvent,and its going to bite them (and to a certain extent us) very hard very soon imo.
If they were businesses they would have had the administrators in years ago.
Unfortunately the Limpdems dont understand any of this, as Prince Vince told conference yesterday that they would spend £5 billion on projects to create jobs and therefore growth. He doesnt understand that the reality is the other way round. Growth creates jobs.
I would imagine that Osborne will tell him to break orft, when he gets back to Westminster though. ;)
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To me the spend approach only works if you have some debt but not a stupid amount, sadly we have a stupid amount! ;D
Indeed. You have to be a little careful that you're spending on things that will promote growth as well, which was Liebore's main failing IMHO. They were spending on things that promote more spending. ;)
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You'd have thought that would have dawned on them by now given the fact that Labour tried the "get out of debt by spending more" option and, surprise, surprise, that didn't go well. ::)
Speaking of which. That moron Prescott spent £500 million on his project for regional fire service control centres, against all advice. It was finally scrapped yesterday. >:(
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I personaly have no issues with spending controlled amounts on new capital assets which can help stimulate growth e.g. the channel tunnel raillink was one (which they then gave away [smiley=thumbdown.gif]) or new tram systems etc.
Chucking billions in a pot for organisations to feed off for me is the wrong approach
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I personaly have no issues with spending controlled amounts on new capital assets which can help stimulate growth e.g. the channel tunnel raillink was one (which they then gave away [smiley=thumbdown.gif]) or new tram systems etc.
Chucking billions in a pot for organisations to feed off for me is the wrong approach
I agree. If it can be demonstrated that it will greatly assist growth then well and good. But in reality it doesnt usually happen like that. More often than not, it ends up as yet another gravy train for people with no understanding whatsoever of even the most basic principles of business. :(
The founding principle of such projects should be to help,assist and encourage private enterprise rather than yet another quasi govt project.
If we help create circumstances which help private companies to be competitive they will sell their goods which in turn will create genuine jobs. Seemples - or it should be.
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I personaly have no issues with spending controlled amounts on new capital assets which can help stimulate growth e.g. the channel tunnel raillink was one (which they then gave away [smiley=thumbdown.gif]) or new tram systems etc.
Chucking billions in a pot for organisations to feed off for me is the wrong approach
yep.. investments that can bring extra income can help reduce the debit.. but with a condition.. dont privatize it.. ;D >:( in my country all govt fabriques, precious areas, harbors,telecom etc etc are privatized for a token.. and now what happened.. govt spend
the money for garbage, and now in order to pay debt they increasie fuel prices everyday.. so, what must be done is obvious, spend the hardly collected for serious things, cut luxury and never ever privatise it.. or you will give all your income as a gift >:( and later collect more tax >:( >:( >:(
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and one more point private companies (like in any other countries) invest their money in highly profitable areas , be it asia, east europe or somewhere else.. so the theory that their investments will stay in the country and bring extra jobs and other chances will likely fail.. :(
and also there are other examples.. where money is completely wasted.. the new rich decide to buy football teams, make big parties , big ships etc etc..
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Which is why we need to be competitive. ;)
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Which is why we need to be competitive. ;)
Albs, quality production can never compete with ordinary mass production because of cost..
But I dont think Brits will decrease their production standards unless they change their numerous laws and way of thinking.. :-/
let me repeat an old saying here: if you are going to be hanged be sure its a British rope ;D
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13 billion in one month though Cem. A lot of money by anyones standards.Debt is at an unprecedented level already and yet we are borrowing more than ever before. Cant be good.
Call me old fashiolned, but to start repaying debt, you need to stop borrowing, then spend less then your income. Otherwise you can never start to repay the debt.
There is waste on a grand scale all over this country, but everyone seems to think that it should be someone else who is responsible for making cutbacks and savings.
Trouble is Albs that it takes years to make the changes (as they should ahev been started years ago and argueably been more under control 10 years ago!)
The key thing is that we are doing something....unlike Greece and Spain, and the consequence is that the organisations that have loaned them money are not confident they will get it back so the credit rate drops, the interest rate goes up (because they are higher risk) and they spiral into effective insolvency.
The spend approach is an interesting scenario as well, yes it would potentialy kick start the economy (but only slightly) however, it would not be doing anything to address debt, in fact it would be making it worse.
This is the point your lenders go 'ow, your in debt and spending still'...bad credit rating arrives, cost of the debt goes up.....and the consequences are worse!
To me the spend approach only works if you have some debt but not a stupid amount, sadly we have a stupid amount! ;D
What a load of rubbish. You make it sound as though neither Greece or Spain are doing ANYTHING to tackle the problem. Haven't you noticed that the Greeks are rioting? Why? well public pay has been cut by up nto 20%. A better thing to say was they are not doing enough at this late stage in the day. I agree with your remaining summation of the situation.
The problem with it all is where will it end?
Germany needs the rest of Europe to keep buying its goods but will Germany bail out the eurozone PIIGS. Don't think so. So when Greece etc have to leave the Euro and the euro then strengthens but the drachma and peseta (or whatever) weaken the PIIGS won't have the cash anymore to buy German goods. Same applies to China and America. It might just be that eally bad times are ahead for a large % of the world not just Greece,Spain etc.
Albs- glad you picked up on the terrible waste of money on the regional (never to be used) fire centres. Yet another example to add to my already huge list of waste on galactic scale by Britain. It might have been a Prescott project but others were in on it too.
I notice you didn't mention anything about yet another banking fiasco. Rogue trader done it again. 1.3 billion or was it 2.5 billion. The bank doesn't actually really know. Really encouraging for mere mortals who will foot the bill for his actions. I still hate the banks.
Lovely story in the local Scarborough paper about a tree. It has cost the local council 1/4 million pounds to fight a person over a six year fight to fell a 100 year old beech tree with a preservation order. You couldn't make it up. Of course the tree is still standing. Where is Swampy when you need him , we have had to make do with Snuz..
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A single rogue trader. There will always be the potential for someone like that in any workplace. It hasnt cost us any money.Cost his employer a fortune of course.He doesnt have it stuffed in his mattress. He was chasing losses and got way past the point of no return, but went into denial and carried on.His immediate boss and the head of risk at the bank, should be sacked immediately imo.
They should have picked up on his problems, long before it ever got that far. ;)
When Greece leaves the Euro I dont think it will strengthen by any sustainable amount or lengthy period of time. Imo it will probably start a domino effect, Portugal, Spain, Republic of Ireland,and then when it gets toItalys turn, its curtains for the whole ill concieved project. ;)
By that time though, the U.S. might be bust too, so were all in deep shite.
The end of the western world being the dominant force in economic terms ? Only time will tell. ;)
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13 billion in one month though Cem. A lot of money by anyones standards.Debt is at an unprecedented level already and yet we are borrowing more than ever before. Cant be good.
Call me old fashiolned, but to start repaying debt, you need to stop borrowing, then spend less then your income. Otherwise you can never start to repay the debt.
There is waste on a grand scale all over this country, but everyone seems to think that it should be someone else who is responsible for making cutbacks and savings.
Trouble is Albs that it takes years to make the changes (as they should ahev been started years ago and argueably been more under control 10 years ago!)
The key thing is that we are doing something....unlike Greece and Spain, and the consequence is that the organisations that have loaned them money are not confident they will get it back so the credit rate drops, the interest rate goes up (because they are higher risk) and they spiral into effective insolvency.
The spend approach is an interesting scenario as well, yes it would potentialy kick start the economy (but only slightly) however, it would not be doing anything to address debt, in fact it would be making it worse.
This is the point your lenders go 'ow, your in debt and spending still'...bad credit rating arrives, cost of the debt goes up.....and the consequences are worse!
To me the spend approach only works if you have some debt but not a stupid amount, sadly we have a stupid amount! ;D
What a load of rubbish. You make it sound as though neither Greece or Spain are doing ANYTHING to tackle the problem. Haven't you noticed that the Greeks are rioting? Why? well public pay has been cut by up nto 20%. A better thing to say was they are not doing enough at this late stage in the day. I agree with your remaining summation of the situation.
The problem with it all is where will it end?
Germany needs the rest of Europe to keep buying its goods but will Germany bail out the eurozone PIIGS. Don't think so. So when Greece etc have to leave the Euro and the euro then strengthens but the drachma and peseta (or whatever) weaken the PIIGS won't have the cash anymore to buy German goods. Same applies to China and America. It might just be that eally bad times are ahead for a large % of the world not just Greece,Spain etc.
Albs- glad you picked up on the terrible waste of money on the regional (never to be used) fire centres. Yet another example to add to my already huge list of waste on galactic scale by Britain. It might have been a Prescott project but others were in on it too.
I notice you didn't mention anything about yet another banking fiasco. Rogue trader done it again. 1.3 billion or was it 2.5 billion. The bank doesn't actually really know. Really encouraging for mere mortals who will foot the bill for his actions. I still hate the banks.
Lovely story in the local Scarborough paper about a tree. It has cost the local council 1/4 million pounds to fight a person over a six year fight to fell a 100 year old beech tree with a preservation order. You couldn't make it up. Of course the tree is still standing. Where is Swampy when you need him , we have had to make do with Snuz..
Varche, if we talk the reality about Greece, for many years they lived with helps of EU, tourism and low interest credits.. show me something industrial (not food or simple things) that they produce and sell internationally.. I'm afraid even sea is finished (local saying) so its time to start work!!
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Greece are not doing anything, its ok cutting wages, they need to go and collect taxes as its a country where they appear to be optional and sort out why your average train driver retires at 55!
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and look in Spain , obvious why they are bankrupt
http://daniel-workman.suite101.com/top-spanish-exports-imports-a29717
their yearly budget balance highly depends on tourism income.. and also they increased their prices before the crysis hits the tourism .. so no surprise there..
http://www.tradingeconomics.com/spain/government-budget
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The Euro region is the second biggest economy in the world. When(if) they get over their differences and go for fiscal union as well as monetary union, it will work just fine.
The Germans and French were the architects of a united Europe but, as is human nature, they won't protect that union by injecting the necessary funding.
The periphery Countries need German and French money but refuse to give up their sovereignty.
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A single rogue trader. There will always be the potential for someone like that in any workplace. It hasnt cost us any money.Cost his employer a fortune of course.He doesnt have it stuffed in his mattress. He was chasing losses and got way past the point of no return, but went into denial and carried on.His immediate boss and the head of risk at the bank, should be sacked immediately imo.
They should have picked up on his problems, long before it ever got that far. ;)
When Greece leaves the Euro I dont think it will strengthen by any sustainable amount or lengthy period of time. Imo it will probably start a domino effect, Portugal, Spain, Republic of Ireland,and then when it gets toItalys turn, its curtains for the whole ill concieved project. ;)
By that time though, the U.S. might be bust too, so were all in deep shite.
The end of the western world being the dominant force in economic terms ? Only time will tell. ;)
when US will go in deeper trouble I'm afraid they will start big wars and balance their budget by "free" imported goods ;D :D
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The Euro region is the second biggest economy in the world. When(if) they get over their differences and go for fiscal union as well as monetary union, it will work just fine.
The Germans and French were the architects of a united Europe but, as is human nature, they won't protect that union by injecting the necessary funding.
The periphery Countries need German and French money but refuse to give up their sovereignty.
It will never happen Steve. ;)
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problem with the EU is that local politicians will never accept to share their power and decisions with the EU management .. there cant be 2 cockosh in the hutch ;D ;D
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Greece is sitting on a potential massive Gas mine if Europe take over you can guarentee BP will be their!!!!!
i feel we are going into a nwo the banks are allowed free reign and basically run the governments Rothschild Reserve Rocker-fellers etc they are the real masters of the world
The devaluation of currency is all part of their plan make us all virtually poor so they can get their way and WW3 is looming america is loosing its grip Fema camps what are they for eh! POW camps more like
9/11 was an inside job the proof is their on Youtube / Live leak but still nobodys held the US to account
heres news for you Bin Laden was never killed in 2011 theres alot of truth in the theory he died in 2002-2005 and was cryogenically frozen by the government ready to be released as some propaganda at a later date hence no pictures!
this is my opinion on whats going on some may say crazy but i dont believe anything from BBC or Sky / CNN anymore time and time again the mainstream media have been proven to be talking nonsense
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The Euro region is the second biggest economy in the world. When(if) they get over their differences and go for fiscal union as well as monetary union, it will work just fine.
The Germans and French were the architects of a united Europe but, as is human nature, they won't protect that union by injecting the necessary funding.
The periphery Countries need German and French money but refuse to give up their sovereignty.
It will never happen Steve. ;)
I bet it will..
Germany: "Give us control or we stop the EU bailing you out."
Greece: "Ok"
Germany: "Thanks, welcome to the United States of Europe."
Easy.
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9/11 was an inside job the proof is their on Youtube / Live leak but still nobodys held the US to account
heres news for you Bin Laden was never killed in 2011 theres alot of truth in the theory he died in 2002-2005 and was cryogenically frozen by the government ready to be released as some propaganda at a later date hence no pictures!
...and "gullible" is the only word in common usage that does not appear in the OED. ;)
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you may say that yes but i'm afraid the story released by the US government is completely infallible they only went to pakistan to make it look like they harbour terrorists so they can goto war with them but pakistan is in bed with China and thats why theres so much media attention going on over their China are even building naval basses their now! preparing for ww3?
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The Euro region is the second biggest economy in the world. When(if) they get over their differences and go for fiscal union as well as monetary union, it will work just fine.
The Germans and French were the architects of a united Europe but, as is human nature, they won't protect that union by injecting the necessary funding.
The periphery Countries need German and French money but refuse to give up their sovereignty.
It will never happen Steve. ;)
I bet it will..
Germany: "Give us control or we stop the EU bailing you out."
Greece: "Ok"
Germany: "Thanks, welcome to the United States of Europe."
Easy.
Nope, Albs is right. Merkel has been humiliated in recent local elections and the majority of Germans are fed up with bailing out non-performing countries.
Greece will default and reintroduce a devalued drachma. The EU will collapse. (Pretty please! ;) ;D )
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it will collapse! if it wasnt for France & Germany there would be no euro!