Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Car Chat => Topic started by: JamesV6CDX on 31 May 2009, 00:01:13
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Baz.... I found the leak mate ;D
I shoud say - I started by stripping out the inlet so I could see the valley. Pressured the system - valley bone dry. No drips from HBV area, all pipework dry - yet coolant was piddling down the passenger side of the bellhousing like niagra falls.
Removed the cat, got a mirror up there, and could clearly see it coming from the rear of the 2-4-6 head gasket...
So the re-build commences! :
(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k205/jamesv6cdx/30052009183.jpg)
(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k205/jamesv6cdx/30052009187.jpg)
(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k205/jamesv6cdx/30052009190.jpg)
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Currently feel like poo, so probably won't get anymore done until next weekend now - apart from maybe some head fettling at home..
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Needless to say, while it's at this stage, I will be doing both HGs.... crazy not to while 1-3-5 is so accessible.
1-3-5 gasket, was equally as bad - although not leaking externally like 2-4-6.
Thankfully no damage to the heads or the block - no corrosion or pitting to be seen.
I think I may have found a few potentials for the lambda issue too.
Firstly, the "three" earths, on the rear of the 2-4-6 head, had all had their ends cut off, all twisted together, and crimped into one ring connector - so someone has bodged that, for reasons totally unknown! One of them was totally shileded - so not doing it's job at all.
There is a pattern cat on the 1-3-5 bank, and it sounds nasty - free to a good home, if anyone wants it.... it will be replaced with a known good GM item
The O2 sensors don't look geniune - they have the right connectors, however, I can't see any GM markings on them - so this may also be the issue - Omega doesn't like pattern lambdas....
Oh - and someone had put the drivers side camcover gasket on with a pattern gasket, and a load of bathroom sealant ;D
Goes to show, when there is one issue - best just to do the whole lot in one hit... :y
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james if it has had silicone on cam cover whip the sump off and clean the pick up pipe bud ! :y last one i did had loads of silicone in it and a couple of cam cover o rings !! :o
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james if it has had silicone on cam cover whip the sump off and clean the pick up pipe bud ! :y last one i did had loads of silicone in it and a couple of cam cover o rings !! :o
Yep - certainly will do Mate! Going to clean out the bottom of the sump anyhooo... :y
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james if it has had silicone on cam cover whip the sump off and clean the pick up pipe bud ! :y last one i did had loads of silicone in it and a couple of cam cover o rings !! :o
Yep - certainly will do Mate! Going to clean out the bottom of the sump anyhooo... :y
happy days ! looks like lack of anti freeze on them gaskets ! i would check oil cooler as well matey ! :y
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(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k205/jamesv6cdx/30052009193.jpg)
(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k205/jamesv6cdx/30052009195.jpg)
Ho yes - cooler is coming out for inspection and re-seal at min, Markey :y
If it's stainless, and looks OK - any need to replace it?
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(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k205/jamesv6cdx/30052009193.jpg)
(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k205/jamesv6cdx/30052009195.jpg)
Ho yes - cooler is coming out for inspection and re-seal at min, Markey :y
If it's stainless, and looks OK - any need to replace it?
oh my days thats a lot of silicone !! naw if its a stainless one it will be fine but separate the cooler from plate and give it a good clean :y
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It's nice to see that the work is being done properly, not cutting any corners like it seems it has been :y
Keep up the good work :y
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I can only imagine that - it wasn't leaking when running - because the head was expanding just enough to stop it..... it was piddling it out when stopped!
Also surprised at the outcome, because with a HG leak, I'd expect something or nothing, not an "intermittent" leak like this one.
Ah well. Manifolds now removed from heads, I'll start stripping the valves out shortly :)
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The 2-4-6 head now has all valves and stem seals removed - now for a good clean, and rebuild:
(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k205/jamesv6cdx/01012008204.jpg)
(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k205/jamesv6cdx/01012008203.jpg)
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With that much silicone I would drop the sump and check the oil pickup is clear. :o
Bear in mind it can kill lambda sensors too.
Kevin
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The 2-4-6 head now has all valves and stem seals removed - now for a good clean, and rebuild:
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Have you numbered all your valve lifters? ::) ::) ::) ;D ;D ;)
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With that much silicone I would drop the sump and check the oil pickup is clear. :o
Yep - I sure will, before it's run again!
Bear in mind it can kill lambda sensors too.
Kevin
If it gets into the combustion chambers?
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The 2-4-6 head now has all valves and stem seals removed - now for a good clean, and rebuild:
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Have you numbered all your valve lifters? ::) ::) ::) ;D ;D ;)
Shaddap you - everything is numbered ;D :y
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Shaddap you - everything is numbered ;D :y
I was only trying to be helpfull ..... ;) ;) ;D ;D :y
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I am amazed the manifolds weren't blowing actually - this car had cheap nasty pattern, composite exhaust manifold gaskets.
Baz has looked after the car well I have no doubt, but someone in previous ownership has certainly cut a few corners ;D
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Know what garage has done that work? One to avoid!
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With that much silicone I would drop the sump and check the oil pickup is clear. :o
Yep - I sure will, before it's run again!
Bear in mind it can kill lambda sensors too.
Kevin
If it gets into the combustion chambers?
It gives off fumes while curing, which may end up in the crank case - or will, in the case of some cowboy plastering it with that much sealant. Then, when engine is run, it is drawn through the breathers, burnt and contaminates the lambdas on the way out.
Of course, you can get sensor safe RTV sealant - like the VX black stuff, but that stuff looks like it came from the back of a bathroom fitter's van.
The guy clearly didn't have much faith in the rubber seals. ;D
Kevin
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Baz has looked after the car well I have no doubt, but someone in previous ownership has certainly cut a few corners ;D
Thanks for the vote of confidence. :y But the car had already done 111k when I picked her up - so no telling how she was looked after in a previous life... :-/
Very interesting to see the photos. I'm going to be very jealous when she's all back together and purring nicely... 8-)
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The guy clearly didn't have much faith in the rubber seals. ;D
Kevin
Fair play though - that pattern gasket lasted 40k miles ;D
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Update:
Both heads stripped, all valves and stem seals removed, and heads cleaned.
I'm now reassembling the 2-4-6 head - 7 stem seals and valves refitted, so far....
(http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k205/jamesv6cdx/01012008215.jpg)
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Note the corrosion on the left hand of the picture..... note this is perfectly smooth etc, but I can't get it shiny....
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i would be tempted to have them skimmed or faced up at least james :(
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i would be tempted to have them skimmed or faced up at least james :(
skimming is issue due to coolant bridge etc
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i would be tempted to have them skimmed or faced up at least james :(
skimming is issue due to coolant bridge etc
no mate it is not have skimmed heads on mine no probs at all only needs a small amount taking off !
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Looks like its coming along nicely, should be for sale by the end of June? ;) ::)
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Looks like its coming along nicely, should be for sale by the end of June? ;) ::)
No chance - she's mine ;D
Markey - out of interest, why would you skim? No distortion or serious pitting etc - I guess after 150k miles, you won't be able to see your face in it? :-/
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Was the area of failure the same as the area of dark grey? If yes, then a very very light skim may suffice but remember the coolant bridge if the engine shop gets too keen. The head gasket is also designed to take up very minor imperfections by its very design...
Personally, if MDTM says dont skim then I wouldn't unless really neccessary....
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Was the area of failure the same as the area of dark grey? If yes, then a very very light skim may suffice but remember the coolant bridge if the engine shop gets too keen. The head gasket is also designed to take up very minor imperfections by its very design...
Personally, if MDTM says dont skim then I wouldn't unless really neccessary....
Hiya B
The failure area was indeed at the rear passenger corner of HG - which is encompassed by the darker coloured area.
It feels totally smooth and I can't detect any distortion. I feel the leak was due to lack of antifreeze perishing the composite gasket over time.... and personally not sure a skim is needed
That said - I welcome all opinions on the subject :y
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No need to skim but, you can see the corrosion damage around the edge of the coolant ways across the whole head.
The place on the left where its worse is actually between 2 water ways.
The most I might do is put a wipe of the green snot in that area (a technique used by Vx at the factory).
This is a pic of Mick Dundees which has had the coolant serviced very well on 100K + miles.
(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b394/Marks_DTM_Calib/Mick_Dundee/IMG_0216.jpg)
Note how much better the coolant ways are.
Just goes to show (yet again) the importance of proper servicing.
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Was the area of failure the same as the area of dark grey? If yes, then a very very light skim may suffice but remember the coolant bridge if the engine shop gets too keen. The head gasket is also designed to take up very minor imperfections by its very design...
Personally, if MDTM says dont skim then I wouldn't unless really neccessary....
Indeed, the major benefit of a composite gasket and why modern metal layer gaskets have a polymer coat to.
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Looks like its coming along nicely, should be for sale by the end of June? ;) ::)
No chance - she's mine ;D
Markey - out of interest, why would you skim? No distortion or serious pitting etc - I guess after 150k miles, you won't be able to see your face in it? :-/
just so its proper flat and were that dark patch is i wouldnt want to risk it will all the other work your doing james :y
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Looks like its coming along nicely, should be for sale by the end of June? ;) ::)
No chance - she's mine ;D
Markey - out of interest, why would you skim? No distortion or serious pitting etc - I guess after 150k miles, you won't be able to see your face in it? :-/
Here we go again! :D... I bet you a Chicken Jalfrezi, Pilau Rice and a Garlic Naan oh, and a pint of Kingfisher that....
;)
kevin
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OK James will sell in August ;D
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OK James will sell in August ;D
Keeping this one long-term, you reckon? :D
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OK James will sell in August ;D
Keeping this one long-term, you reckon? :D
He has said that about at least 3 cars since I have known him, started with the GLS 2.0 trying to be an Elite, and then the STMO0123 2.5 CDX Facelift with LPG now owned by Phate123.
Mind you I did get 2 or 3 merged into one :)
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OK James will sell in August ;D
Keeping this one long-term, you reckon? :D
He has said that about at least 3 cars since I have known him, started with the GLS 2.0 trying to be an Elite, and then the STMO0123 2.5 CDX Facelift with LPG now owned by Phate123.
Mind you I did get 2 or 3 merged into one :)
Then there was the 2.0 LPG'd Estate, facelift 3.0 Elite, Range Rover, Peugeot and probably a few more... :D
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I get bored when I run out of things to fix! ;D
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Right when you have fixed everything on this car you can swap it for mine (plus 200euros negotiable) and then you need never buy another car! (and it has just had the cambelt changed).
Don't hang around though as the offer won't be there for ever. :)
El varche
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Taking a break - as interest faded a bit tonight.
Fitted all the inlet valves and seals in the 246 head - only to find a stem seal spring on the bench. So - had to strip them out again - and found a stem seal with a spring missing.
Ho hum - changed that seal - all done
2-4-6 head is rebuild, apart from the manifold - starting on 1-3-5 head tomorrow night.
Hope to have them ready to fit, at the weekend...
These stem seals, from autovaux - are black - is that OK? They usually are green, IME...
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Fitted all the inlet valves and seals in the 246 head - only to find a stem seal spring on the bench. So - had to strip them out again - and found a stem seal with a spring missing.
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Seems like a recurring theme! ;) ;) ;) :y :y :y :y
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Fitted all the inlet valves and seals in the 246 head - only to find a stem seal spring on the bench. So - had to strip them out again - and found a stem seal with a spring missing.
.......
Seems like a recurring theme! ;) ;) ;) :y :y :y :y
At least I noticed it before I fitted the beggar to the car ;D
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Fitted all the inlet valves and seals in the 246 head - only to find a stem seal spring on the bench. So - had to strip them out again - and found a stem seal with a spring missing.
.......
Seems like a recurring theme! ;) ;) ;) :y :y :y :y
At least I noticed it before I fitted the beggar to the car ;D
:y :y :y Not a mistake you'll ever do again I think. :y :y
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Fitted all the inlet valves and seals in the 246 head - only to find a stem seal spring on the bench. So - had to strip them out again - and found a stem seal with a spring missing.
.......
Seems like a recurring theme! ;) ;) ;) :y :y :y :y
At least I noticed it before I fitted the beggar to the car ;D
:y :y :y Not a mistake you'll ever do again I think. :y :y
Do you have any idea how many time I've counted these followers? ;D ;D
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Fitted all the inlet valves and seals in the 246 head - only to find a stem seal spring on the bench. So - had to strip them out again - and found a stem seal with a spring missing.
.......
Seems like a recurring theme! ;) ;) ;) :y :y :y :y
At least I noticed it before I fitted the beggar to the car ;D
:y :y :y Not a mistake you'll ever do again I think. :y :y
Do you have any idea how many time I've counted these followers? ;D ;D
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
When I did the head on my Senator I had a divided tray that I numbered up to 24 for all the valves collets etc :y
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valves are kept in order, the springs, washers etc, are all in a big tin :y
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valves are kept in order, the springs, washers etc, are all in a big tin :y
I know it doesn't make any odd with springs etc, but I like to put stuff back from where it came, often even down to bolts. ::)
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1-3-5 head, now has all its exhaust valves refitted, so half rebuilt. I'll do the inlet valves tomorrow night - and then fit the manifolds - which will be done with new studs and nuts from VX :y
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Looks like its coming along nicely, should be for sale by the end of June? ;) ::)
No chance - she's mine ;D
Markey - out of interest, why would you skim? No distortion or serious pitting etc - I guess after 150k miles, you won't be able to see your face in it? :-/
Here we go again! :D... I bet you a Chicken Jalfrezi, Pilau Rice and a Garlic Naan oh, and a pint of Kingfisher that....
;)
kevin
He still owes me a beer and a curry over that previous Omega he had
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Looks like its coming along nicely, should be for sale by the end of June? ;) ::)
No chance - she's mine ;D
Markey - out of interest, why would you skim? No distortion or serious pitting etc - I guess after 150k miles, you won't be able to see your face in it? :-/
Here we go again! :D... I bet you a Chicken Jalfrezi, Pilau Rice and a Garlic Naan oh, and a pint of Kingfisher that....
;)
kevin
He still owes me a beer and a curry over that previous Omega he had
I keep asking you to say when you're free ;D :P
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Righto - back on topic ;)
The parts how now all arrived. Tomorrow night I will clean and fit the exhaust manifolds, using all new studs and nuts just in case...
Friday afternoon, I am going to take out the oil cooler, clean everything up, and re-fit and re-seal it - and then Saturday it's assembly day.
Chances are it will spill into Sunday, as I've no intention at all of rushing it.... and I also have to fit a complete new exhaust incl cats..
Progress to follow :y