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Chat Area => General Car Chat => Topic started by: tunnie on 28 September 2009, 19:57:43

Title: LPG Stag Kit on 2.2
Post by: tunnie on 28 September 2009, 19:57:43
Who's fitted one?

With the V6 it looks straight forward adding them to the fuel injection manifold, but whats the best way on the 4 pots??
Title: Re: LPG Stag Kit on 2.2
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 28 September 2009, 20:20:18
We did one on a 2.0 at Kevin's - all extrementy straightforwads...
Title: Re: LPG Stag Kit on 2.2
Post by: tunnie on 28 September 2009, 20:59:37
where did you put the LPG injectors?
Title: Re: LPG Stag Kit on 2.2
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 28 September 2009, 21:50:42
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where did you put the LPG injectors?

On the inlet manifold ;)
Title: Re: LPG Stag Kit on 2.2
Post by: Lazydocker on 29 September 2009, 07:39:06
I reckon it'd be even easier to do a 4 pot... Lots more space in the engine bay where those other 2 cylinders should be :y :y :D :D
Title: Re: LPG Stag Kit on 2.2
Post by: feeutfo on 29 September 2009, 09:07:11
Are you taking the "laughing gas" plunge then Tunnie? Petrol prices only going up they say.

Mind you Gas has gone up with it. 57p now. ;D

Re injectors you want to replicate the petrol system as closley as possible afaik. So 4 injectors as closely positioned to petrol injectors as is physically possible, baring in mind you've got to get a drill in there and tap the thread with a decent downdraft angle, ie not at right angles to the inlet air flow. Drill access being the limiting facter i would think, but as said, with only two thirds of an engine, should be easier. :-)
Title: Re: LPG Stag Kit on 2.2
Post by: Kevin Wood on 29 September 2009, 09:12:40
Not sure we took any photos of Marie's install. It was a busy weekend  ;D.

Then again, show me a 4 pot intake manifold and I'll remember where I drilled, I'm sure. IIRC, right into the base at the side of each port, and it's much less tight WRT locating the nozzles. IIRC, we ditched the cable tray above the petrol injectors (was falling apart anyway) and brought the injector lines up the gap to a valve block mounted beside the cam cover.

Kevin
Title: Re: LPG Stag Kit on 2.2
Post by: feeutfo on 29 September 2009, 09:28:12
yes, sorry, an injector consisting of the injector itself with a rubber pipe leading to a nozzle. Nozzle drilled next to, or near, the petrol injectors. Injector itself mounted on a bracket somewhere convenient.
Title: Re: LPG Stag Kit on 2.2
Post by: tunnie on 29 September 2009, 10:46:48
sounds interesting, yes i am considering it. Was just wondering how it was done, at the moment i can expense fuel so its not an issue. But if i get offered a perm role here, i'll want to reduce my commute bill. I don't want to move closer as it won't save me much time unless i am right next door to the job, and i don't want that as the area around Chiswick is crap!

That either means a diesel or LPG, i know it would be best to LPG a 3.2 to get full advantage, but i'd have to spend fair bit of cash changing, and getting the 3.2.

Plus i rather like my 2.2 its been a reliable old thing, if the kit costs £800, crunching the numbers its just a few months till its paid back.

Loosing the boot is putting me off though.
Title: Re: LPG Stag Kit on 2.2
Post by: Lazydocker on 29 September 2009, 10:50:16
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sounds interesting, yes i am considering it. Was just wondering how it was done, at the moment i can expense fuel so its not an issue. But if i get offered a perm role here, i'll want to reduce my commute bill. I don't want to move closer as it won't save me much time unless i am right next door to the job, and i don't want that as the area around Chiswick is crap!

That either means a diesel or LPG, i know it would be best to LPG a 3.2 to get full advantage, but i'd have to spend fair bit of cash changing, and getting the 3.2.

Plus i rather like my 2.2 its been a reliable old thing, if the kit costs £800, crunching the numbers its just a few months till its paid back.

Loosing the boot is putting me off though.

Don't lose the boot then... Compromise your tank size/range with a Vertical Torroidal Tank and get the best of both worlds :y :y

Oh... And it'll cost a less than £800 to convert a 4 pot... That's a worst case allowance for a V6 :y :y :y
Title: Re: LPG Stag Kit on 2.2
Post by: tunnie on 29 September 2009, 10:53:45
Vertical Torroidal Tank is not suitable for me, won't store enough fuel.

Even with a 75L petrol tank i am filling up every 3 days!  ;D
Title: Re: LPG Stag Kit on 2.2
Post by: Lazydocker on 29 September 2009, 11:02:29
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Vertical Torroidal Tank is not suitable for me, won't store enough fuel.

Even with a 75L petrol tank i am filling up every 3 days!  ;D

Did say it's a compromise ::) ::) ::)

TBH, The only time you're likely to notice the reduced boot space is when you're going away so buy a top box :y :y :y
Title: Re: LPG Stag Kit on 2.2
Post by: tunnie on 29 September 2009, 14:38:08
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Vertical Torroidal Tank is not suitable for me, won't store enough fuel.

Even with a 75L petrol tank i am filling up every 3 days!  ;D

Did say it's a compromise ::) ::) ::)

TBH, The only time you're likely to notice the reduced boot space is when you're going away so buy a top box :y :y :y

Just out of interest, what is the usable capacticy of the VT tank? is it 45L?
Title: Re: LPG Stag Kit on 2.2
Post by: Kevin Wood on 29 September 2009, 16:36:53
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Just out of interest, what is the usable capacticy of the VT tank? is it 45L?

From memory the one I was thinking of was 59L volume, so about 47 useable. Chrisgixer is the man to ask though.

Kevin
Title: Re: LPG Stag Kit on 2.2
Post by: tunnie on 29 September 2009, 18:09:00
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Just out of interest, what is the usable capacticy of the VT tank? is it 45L?

From memory the one I was thinking of was 59L volume, so about 47 useable. Chrisgixer is the man to ask though.

Kevin

Assuming i could get 25mpg on gas thats 258 mile range, that won't last 2 days, i would be filling up every day  :(

Have to be a big tank!
Title: Re: LPG Stag Kit on 2.2
Post by: feeutfo on 29 September 2009, 18:13:52
can squeeze 52 litres in mine. Which gives about 180 miles driving like a knob, or 220 on a gentle run at sensable speeds. But thats a 3.2. Would guess that would be better in a 2.2 ?
Title: Re: LPG Stag Kit on 2.2
Post by: tunnie on 29 September 2009, 18:25:40
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can squeeze 52 litres in mine. Which gives about 180 miles driving like a knob, or 220 on a gentle run at sensable speeds. But thats a 3.2. Would guess that would be better in a 2.2 ?

220 miles from 52 litres? Thats only 19 mpg  :o

Is the the best you can get from gas?  :-/

Motorway runs 3.2/2.2 economy is roughly the same, 3.2 can even be better  ;D
Title: Re: LPG Stag Kit on 2.2
Post by: Omegatoy on 29 September 2009, 18:30:23
gas is less calorific value then petrol so you have to use more to go the sme distance!! anyway if the bootspace is a worry just have 2 smaller tanks either side of the boot then you can still use the seatback fold down system!! did this on a supra many moons ago worked well, jm2pw :y
Title: Re: LPG Stag Kit on 2.2
Post by: tunnie on 29 September 2009, 18:31:58
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gas is less calorific value then petrol so you have to use more to go the sme distance!! anyway if the bootspace is a worry just have 2 smaller tanks either side of the boot then you can still use the seatback fold down system!! did this on a supra many moons ago worked well, jm2pw :y

What puts me off is you can only get 20-25 mpg at best.... i'd rather get a 2.5TD and keep all practicality.
Title: Re: LPG Stag Kit on 2.2
Post by: Omegatoy on 29 September 2009, 18:41:16
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gas is less calorific value then petrol so you have to use more to go the sme distance!! anyway if the bootspace is a worry just have 2 smaller tanks either side of the boot then you can still use the seatback fold down system!! did this on a supra many moons ago worked well, jm2pw :y

What puts me off is you can only get 20-25 mpg at best.... i'd rather get a 2.5TD and keep all practicality.

I definetly wouldnt argue against that!! :y there is a nice very low mileage saloon on ebay at the mo or was it autotrader ::) one of the two anyway!!!
Title: Re: LPG Stag Kit on 2.2
Post by: tunnie on 29 September 2009, 18:50:57
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Quote
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gas is less calorific value then petrol so you have to use more to go the sme distance!! anyway if the bootspace is a worry just have 2 smaller tanks either side of the boot then you can still use the seatback fold down system!! did this on a supra many moons ago worked well, jm2pw :y

What puts me off is you can only get 20-25 mpg at best.... i'd rather get a 2.5TD and keep all practicality.

I definetly wouldnt argue against that!! :y there is a nice very low mileage saloon on ebay at the mo or was it autotrader ::) one of the two anyway!!!

This one?

http://search.autotrader.co.uk/es-uk/www/cars/VAUXHALL+OMEGA/Ne-2-4-5-6-7-8-27-44-49-53-61-64-67-103-133-146-236,N-51-240-4294966638-4294966947/advert.action?R=200939342386750&distance=188&postcode=NN13+6ER&channel=CARS&make=VAUXHALL&model=OMEGA&min_pr=&max_pr=&max_mileage=&vehicleYearOfManufacture=2000&vehicleRegLetter=X
Title: Re: LPG Stag Kit on 2.2
Post by: Omegatoy on 29 September 2009, 18:51:09
this one!!!!
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Vauxhall-Omega-2-5-Saloon-Diesel-GLS_W0QQitemZ160365509123QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAutomobiles_UK?hash=item2556877a03&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14
Title: Re: LPG Stag Kit on 2.2
Post by: tunnie on 29 September 2009, 18:52:29
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this one!!!!
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Vauxhall-Omega-2-5-Saloon-Diesel-GLS_W0QQitemZ160365509123QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAutomobiles_UK?hash=item2556877a03&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

Still 4 days to go, rekon that will go for a fair bit
Title: Re: LPG Stag Kit on 2.2
Post by: feeutfo on 29 September 2009, 21:56:26
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Quote
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gas is less calorific value then petrol so you have to use more to go the sme distance!! anyway if the bootspace is a worry just have 2 smaller tanks either side of the boot then you can still use the seatback fold down system!! did this on a supra many moons ago worked well, jm2pw :y

What puts me off is you can only get 20-25 mpg at best.... i'd rather get a 2.5TD and keep all practicality.

I definetly wouldnt argue against that!! :y there is a nice very low mileage saloon on ebay at the mo or was it autotrader ::) one of the two anyway!!!

This one?

http://search.autotrader.co.uk/es-uk/www/cars/VAUXHALL+OMEGA/Ne-2-4-5-6-7-8-27-44-49-53-61-64-67-103-133-146-236,N-51-240-4294966638-4294966947/advert.action?R=200939342386750&distance=188&postcode=NN13+6ER&channel=CARS&make=VAUXHALL&model=OMEGA&min_pr=&max_pr=&max_mileage=&vehicleYearOfManufacture=2000&vehicleRegLetter=X

A Gls tracter? As Andy B said on another thread, i'd rather stick pins in my eyes.

So whats the pence per mile tracter v lpg 3.2?
Title: Re: LPG Stag Kit on 2.2
Post by: Entwood on 29 September 2009, 22:10:08
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gas is less calorific value then petrol so you have to use more to go the sme distance!! anyway if the bootspace is a worry just have 2 smaller tanks either side of the boot then you can still use the seatback fold down system!! did this on a supra many moons ago worked well, jm2pw :y

Actualy incorrect... LPG has a higher calorific content when in liquid form .... ie ... gallon for gallon, but has a lower Specific Gravity .. ie it weighs less.

All engines actually burn a MASS of fuel.. ie .. a certain number of molecules...  not a volume ... and LPG in vapour form weighs less then petrol, which is why more volume is used per mile.

The best way to compare the 2 is NOT by a false volume/mile or mass/mile calculation .. but a cost/mile one...

ie how many pence /mile does it cost on petrol v gas.

On my conversion over 16767 miles .. the actual running cost on LPG is presently 14.25 pence/mile v an estimated 22.86 pence/mile on petrol... a saving of 8.61 pence for every mile travelled. (37.66%)

Due to rising petrol prices over the last 2 months it has actualy been  just over 10 pence/mile but that will change as prices change

HTH
Title: Re: LPG Stag Kit on 2.2
Post by: tunnie on 29 September 2009, 22:21:53
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Quote
gas is less calorific value then petrol so you have to use more to go the sme distance!! anyway if the bootspace is a worry just have 2 smaller tanks either side of the boot then you can still use the seatback fold down system!! did this on a supra many moons ago worked well, jm2pw :y

Actualy incorrect... LPG has a higher calorific content when in liquid form .... ie ... gallon for gallon, but has a lower Specific Gravity .. ie it weighs less.

All engines actually burn a MASS of fuel.. ie .. a certain number of molecules...  not a volume ... and LPG in vapour form weighs less then petrol, which is why more volume is used per mile.

The best way to compare the 2 is NOT by a false volume/mile or mass/mile calculation .. but a cost/mile one...

ie how many pence /mile does it cost on petrol v gas.

On my conversion over 16767 miles .. the actual running cost on LPG is presently 14.25 pence/mile v an estimated 22.86 pence/mile on petrol... a saving of 8.61 pence for every mile travelled. (37.66%)

Due to rising petrol prices over the last 2 months it has actualy been  just over 10 pence/mile but that will change as prices change

HTH

On my calculations then, my 2.2 is being as economical as LPG.  :-/

On my first 3 days at Sky i used 1 tank of fuel (59.66L of fuel at 106.9)

Tank was brimmed before, and brimmed after, did a total of 445 miles on that fuel.

So that works out at 33.91 mpg or 14.33 pence per mile.

Unless you are adding other costs to you per mile calculation?
Title: Re: LPG Stag Kit on 2.2
Post by: Entwood on 29 September 2009, 22:50:38
nope .. but I'm running a 3.2 that is driven pretty hard and tows a great deal !!!

The estimated way of doing things is this ...

Your petrol consumption is presently 33.91 mpg @ 14.33 pence /mile.

Estimated LPG would be 20% lower .. so 27.128 mpg. LPG is 52.2 p/litre here or £2.37 a gall  so the estimated LPG cost /mile would be 8.73 pence/mile !!!

 A saving of about 5.6 pence /mile or 39% ... The fuel costs 50% less and you use about 20% more ...  whats to lose ??   :)

IF you went the DIY conversion for £700 ish .. it would be paid for in 8000 miles, if you do 16000 miles a year it is paid for in 6 months ... another way of looking at it is, all figures rounded for simplicity:

16000 a year = 1300 a month ... @ 33.91 mpg thats 33 galls a month thats 150 litres @ 1.06 = £160 a month in fuel.

1300 miles a month on LPG  @ 27.12 mpg = 46 galls = 209 litres @ 52.2 p = £110 a month ....

An instant saving of £50 a month ...  :)
Title: Re: LPG Stag Kit on 2.2
Post by: feeutfo on 29 September 2009, 23:34:19
anyone got any diesel figures to compare?
Title: Re: LPG Stag Kit on 2.2
Post by: tunnie on 30 September 2009, 09:14:42
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nope .. but I'm running a 3.2 that is driven pretty hard and tows a great deal !!!

The estimated way of doing things is this ...

Your petrol consumption is presently 33.91 mpg @ 14.33 pence /mile.

Estimated LPG would be 20% lower .. so 27.128 mpg. LPG is 52.2 p/litre here or £2.37 a gall  so the estimated LPG cost /mile would be 8.73 pence/mile !!!
 A saving of about 5.6 pence /mile or 39% ... The fuel costs 50% less and you use about 20% more ...  whats to lose ??   :)

quote]

LPG is 57p here, so that works out at 9.5 pence per mile ish...

Not exactly massive savings, plus loss of boot.  :(