Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Car Chat => Topic started by: Ian_D on 22 November 2009, 21:18:46
-
I’ve been thinking on and off since I bought the Omega almost 2 years ago now. ::)
My biggest problem with LPG, is the required boot space. Ask everyone that knows me and they will know that the boot is always full of something! ;D
My options are:
1) Stay as is, and continue to pay loads on fuel
2) Sell my V6, and get my 2.5TD back on the road
3) Sell both Migs, and put the money to a newer LPG’ed estate (gets boot space back)
4) Convert mine to LPG and put up with little boot space
Now, as much as I don’t mind the TD, I don’t really want to sell my V6. So that’s Option 2 ruled out I guess! Likewise for Option 3 - Getting an LPG’ed estate.
So options are either 1 or 4!
I was wondering about these donut tanks that you can get. Would they fit where the spare wheel goes on a saloon? Other Idea – Can you get an LPG tank which will fit in the back corner of the boot, but still allow me to fold half the rear seats down and poke stuff through?
My current MPG on Petrol seems to be around 19ish – I guess that would drop slightly on lpg to maybe 17/18mpg?
Also, Insurance and LPG… If I fitted LPG, I would have to do it myself to keep the costs down. Would this effect the insurance? I’m with Direct Line if anyone else has an LPG’ed car with them??
And lastly (for now anyway), am I better buying a donor Omega to take the LPG kit off, or buying a kit new / second hand from here / ebay etc?
:-/ :-/ :-/
-
I am with direct line, they had no issues when i bought an LPG project car.
I too don't want to really loose the boot, and like my 2.2. Its super smooth and comfy and been very reliable.
I thought to myself how many times i actually use the full capacity of the boot, its just maybe a few times a year. I can buy a roof box for those times for the snowboard.
-
you could go for a vertical donut tank, you keep the boot then, but i don't think i could put up with the 150 mile range. My bike does more than that!
-
Now considering this myself on my 2.2, but don't have the cash for the bits and need every inch of luggage space.
150 mile range would be pointless-try finding an LPG station every 150 miles without going off-route....
Hmmmm :-/
-
Now considering this myself on my 2.2, but don't have the cash for the bits and need every inch of luggage space.
150 mile range would be pointless-try finding an LPG station every 150 miles without going off-route....
Hmmmm :-/
Decent normal 80L Cylinder tank gives 300 miles which is much better, but at a cost
-
Now considering this myself on my 2.2, but don't have the cash for the bits and need every inch of luggage space.
150 mile range would be pointless-try finding an LPG station every 150 miles without going off-route....
Hmmmm :-/
Decent normal 80L Cylinder tank gives 300 miles which is much better, but at a cost
......of boot space :-/
-
Now considering this myself on my 2.2, but don't have the cash for the bits and need every inch of luggage space.
150 mile range would be pointless-try finding an LPG station every 150 miles without going off-route....
Hmmmm :-/
Decent normal 80L Cylinder tank gives 300 miles which is much better, but at a cost
......of boot space :-/
Indeed, but ask yourself this. -> How many times do you use the full capacity of the boot?
Brand new roof racks are £300-400 for big ones, second hand will be a lot cheaper, but they can pay for themselves within moths as well.
I have the use of 2 other Omegas, including an Estate, so i am lucky in that respect, i can just steal borrow one of the others ;D
-
Now considering this myself on my 2.2, but don't have the cash for the bits and need every inch of luggage space.
150 mile range would be pointless-try finding an LPG station every 150 miles without going off-route....
Hmmmm :-/
Decent normal 80L Cylinder tank gives 300 miles which is much better, but at a cost
......of boot space :-/
Indeed, but ask yourself this. -> How many times do you use the full capacity of the boot?
Brand new roof racks are £300-400 for big ones, second hand will be a lot cheaper, but they can pay for themselves within moths as well.
I have the use of 2 other Omegas, including an Estate, so i am lucky in that respect, i can just steal borrow one of the others ;D
5-up to Poland including years worth of presents to save postage, travel cot, pushchair/travel system, 4 suitcases, 100+litres of cider (hot property over there!), tools, spare parts etc etc.
No chance of taking roof box-would go walkies first time we parked up plus not keen on them anyway.
Unleaded it is then :-/
-
Now considering this myself on my 2.2, but don't have the cash for the bits and need every inch of luggage space.
150 mile range would be pointless-try finding an LPG station every 150 miles without going off-route....
Hmmmm :-/
Decent normal 80L Cylinder tank gives 300 miles which is much better, but at a cost
......of boot space :-/
Indeed, but ask yourself this. -> How many times do you use the full capacity of the boot?
Brand new roof racks are £300-400 for big ones, second hand will be a lot cheaper, but they can pay for themselves within moths as well.
I have the use of 2 other Omegas, including an Estate, so i am lucky in that respect, i can just steal borrow one of the others ;D
5-up to Poland including years worth of presents to save postage, travel cot, pushchair/travel system, 4 suitcases, 100+litres of cider (hot property over there!), tools, spare parts etc etc.
No chance of taking roof box-would go walkies first time we parked up plus not keen on them anyway.
Unleaded it is then :-/
You could investigate under-slung solutions, used more on rangies. Drop the fuel tank and install a smaller one. Allows you to mount cylinder tanks underneath the car
-
Your call
Mr Trebus Ian .... ::) ::) ::) ::)
You'd not get the PC/stereo in the limited boot space of a LPG converted saloon boot! :y
-
Your call Mr Trebus Ian .... ::) ::) ::) ::)
You'd not get the PC/stereo in the limited boot space of a LPG converted saloon boot! :y
Tut tut! Pick on someone your own age! ;D ;D ;) ;)
To be honest, the PC + amp isn't that big really. And I guess I could dump the Sub thats now 'living' in there.
-
....
Tut tut! Pick on someone your own age! ;D ;D ;) ;)
.....
they can all fight back!!!! ;D ;D ;D ;D
Just give me a call if you need taps (& dies) of various sizes if you go the gas route. I've got a garage full of them. :y :y :y
-
Guess you’re right Tunnie to be honest regarding boot space.
I guess I tend to fill the boot 'Because I can' almost. (if that makes sence)
There’s probably the only odd piece of crap item that I would struggle to fit in the boot, and I guess I could use the trailer for that if I REALLY needed. ;)
And when going away on hols etc, I guess I would just have to put more stuff in the caravan instead of the boot.
Hmmm…. ::) ::) ::)
-
....
Tut tut! Pick on someone your own age! ;D ;D ;) ;)
.....
they can all fight back!!!! ;D ;D ;D ;D
Just give me a call if you need taps (& dies) of various sizes if you go the gas route. I've got a garage full of them. :y :y :y
Ta mate, I've got a few but knowing my luck the size I would need would be the size that my set doesn't have!
Anyhow, I would just give you a call saying that I'm setting off, and will be round at yours in 2 hrs... You could give me a hand then ;D ;) :y
-
Now considering this myself on my 2.2, but don't have the cash for the bits and need every inch of luggage space.
150 mile range would be pointless-try finding an LPG station every 150 miles without going off-route....
Hmmmm :-/
Decent normal 80L Cylinder tank gives 300 miles which is much better, but at a cost
......of boot space :-/
Indeed, but ask yourself this. -> How many times do you use the full capacity of the boot?
Brand new roof racks are £300-400 for big ones, second hand will be a lot cheaper, but they can pay for themselves within moths as well.
I have the use of 2 other Omegas, including an Estate, so i am lucky in that respect, i can just steal borrow one of the others ;D
5-up to Poland including years worth of presents to save postage, travel cot, pushchair/travel system, 4 suitcases, 100+litres of cider (hot property over there!), tools, spare parts etc etc.
No chance of taking roof box-would go walkies first time we parked up plus not keen on them anyway.
Unleaded it is then :-/
You could investigate under-slung solutions, used more on rangies. Drop the fuel tank and install a smaller one. Allows you to mount cylinder tanks underneath the car
I also wondered about that, but I dont think theres enough depth? Or is there? ::)
-
.......
Anyhow, I would just give you a call saying that I'm setting off, and will be round at yours in 2 hrs... You could give me a hand then ;D ;) :y
Not a problem! :y You could even have electric hook up on my drive! ;) ;D ;D :y
-
.......
Anyhow, I would just give you a call saying that I'm setting off, and will be round at yours in 2 hrs... You could give me a hand then ;D ;) :y
Not a problem! :y You could even have electric hook up on my drive! ;) ;D ;D :y
Cool... How much per night with hookup? ::) ;D
-
Right... Underslung isn't an option with the Miggy because there wouldn't be enough ground clearance.
Vertical Toroidal tank is an option for a saloon (Chrisgsxr has one) but comes at a higher price (financially) and with a reduced range due to the smaller size... That said, even at 150 miles it's not too bad. When I first got my Rangie the range was about 125 miles but there's always the petrol to fall back on. I rarely had a problem finding LPG on (or very near to) my route, wherever I was travelling. Certainly in Europe it's available at the majority of services and about 60-70% (IIRCC) of standard filling stations.
Fitting the tank lengthways in the boot is (in theory) an option but I wouldn't be comfortable with that... In a rear end shunt the tank will NOT collapse in any way so will go straight through the seat back :o :o :o
As for new/2nd hand... New all the way, from Teilo (the supplier lots of us have used) His kit is proven to work, fantastic value, guaranteed for 2 years and unlimited miles and there's plenty of support both here and with him :y :y :y
If you like I'll try to arrange meeting up with you when I travel up that way over Christmas so you can have a look :y :y
-
just to add, i have a vertical donut tank in the spare wheel well, and have NEVER been able to empty it in less than 180miles, and i was trying hard in the early days of the install to find out the worst possible range.
Driving at normal, above legal, motorway speeds gives about 200. 230 is possible, more if you really want to drive purely with economy in mind, i dont have the patience for that though. I cant help with a town figure as my commute is 90% motorway. For me donut in spare wheel well was the only option as i need the through space to drop the rear seats down.
Having said that, the fact i have 5 lpg stations in Reading was definately a deciding factor. In affect, you need to reduce your affective tank range by the distance needed to drive to your nearest lpg station if its in the wrong direction to your regular journey. But if there is an outlet near your most regular route, why worry? Something to consider when making your decission.....?
Tbh, a boot full of "stuff" is no reason to fit a donut. Take the stuff out and fit a 100litre it seems to me, it will save you money, stuff will just cost you money to lug about. A doubly expensive way to drive perhaps? (Unless the "stuff" is actually needed of course :-) )
New Kit over second hand by the way, fitting new is challenge enough.
-
i am also insured with direct line. Didnt cost a penny more as a dual fuel car. Only problem i had was they didnt know the rules, they where not aware of the safety certificate for diy installs and tried to tell me they would not cover the car if i touched the install myself. Idiots.
All sorted now though, with Lazydocker's and others help i was able to put them right in the end.
A safety cert provided by an lpga approved installer is all thats needed. Worth a chat with him before you fit the fuel lines at least, to make sure you get it right first time saving time agro and a car full of holes. :-)
Dual fuel will get you 15 quid off car tax due to reduction in emissions.
-
i am also insured with direct line. Didnt cost a penny more as a dual fuel car. Only problem i had was they didnt know the rules, they where not aware of the safety certificate for diy installs and tried to tell me they would not cover the car if i touched the install myself. Idiots.
All sorted now though, with Lazydocker's and others help i was able to put them right in the end.
A safety cert provided by an lpga approved installer is all thats needed. Worth a chat with him before you fit the fuel lines at least, to make sure you get it right first time saving time agro and a car full of holes. :-)
Dual fuel will get you 15 quid off car tax due to reduction in emissions.
Useful-cheers :y
-
Right... Underslung isn't an option with the Miggy because there wouldn't be enough ground clearance.
Vertical Toroidal tank is an option for a saloon (Chrisgsxr has one) but comes at a higher price (financially) and with a reduced range due to the smaller size... That said, even at 150 miles it's not too bad. When I first got my Rangie the range was about 125 miles but there's always the petrol to fall back on. I rarely had a problem finding LPG on (or very near to) my route, wherever I was travelling. Certainly in Europe it's available at the majority of services and about 60-70% (IIRCC) of standard filling stations.
Fitting the tank lengthways in the boot is (in theory) an option but I wouldn't be comfortable with that... In a rear end shunt the tank will NOT collapse in any way so will go straight through the seat back :o :o :o
As for new/2nd hand... New all the way, from Teilo (the supplier lots of us have used) His kit is proven to work, fantastic value, guaranteed for 2 years and unlimited miles and there's plenty of support both here and with him :y :y :y
If you like I'll try to arrange meeting up with you when I travel up that way over Christmas so you can have a look :y :y
Thanks for the info mate! I didn’t think there was room under the car for a tank. :(
If you wouldn't mind nipping over to York some time, I would certainly be interested in having a good look round the install! :y
-
i am also insured with direct line. Didnt cost a penny more as a dual fuel car. Only problem i had was they didnt know the rules, they where not aware of the safety certificate for diy installs and tried to tell me they would not cover the car if i touched the install myself. Idiots.
All sorted now though, with Lazydocker's and others help i was able to put them right in the end.
A safety cert provided by an lpga approved installer is all thats needed. Worth a chat with him before you fit the fuel lines at least, to make sure you get it right first time saving time agro and a car full of holes. :-)
Dual fuel will get you 15 quid off car tax due to reduction in emissions.
So I would NEED a safety certificate? How much do these cost? And how hard are they to get? :-/
-
i am also insured with direct line. Didnt cost a penny more as a dual fuel car. Only problem i had was they didnt know the rules, they where not aware of the safety certificate for diy installs and tried to tell me they would not cover the car if i touched the install myself. Idiots.
All sorted now though, with Lazydocker's and others help i was able to put them right in the end.
A safety cert provided by an lpga approved installer is all thats needed. Worth a chat with him before you fit the fuel lines at least, to make sure you get it right first time saving time agro and a car full of holes. :-)
Dual fuel will get you 15 quid off car tax due to reduction in emissions.
So I would NEED a safety certificate? How much do these cost? And how hard are they to get? :-/
About £80 i think (going from reports i see from other members) Takes about 30mins/1 hour the inspector goes over it to make sure its to his liking. Not heard any major issues, some ask for better heat shielding, things like that
-
i am also insured with direct line. Didnt cost a penny more as a dual fuel car. Only problem i had was they didnt know the rules, they where not aware of the safety certificate for diy installs and tried to tell me they would not cover the car if i touched the install myself. Idiots.
All sorted now though, with Lazydocker's and others help i was able to put them right in the end.
A safety cert provided by an lpga approved installer is all thats needed. Worth a chat with him before you fit the fuel lines at least, to make sure you get it right first time saving time agro and a car full of holes. :-)
Dual fuel will get you 15 quid off car tax due to reduction in emissions.
So I would NEED a safety certificate? How much do these cost? And how hard are they to get? :-/
Before you start it give a few local installers a call and check with them :y :y
-
Right... Underslung isn't an option with the Miggy because there wouldn't be enough ground clearance.
Vertical Toroidal tank is an option for a saloon (Chrisgsxr has one) but comes at a higher price (financially) and with a reduced range due to the smaller size... That said, even at 150 miles it's not too bad. When I first got my Rangie the range was about 125 miles but there's always the petrol to fall back on. I rarely had a problem finding LPG on (or very near to) my route, wherever I was travelling. Certainly in Europe it's available at the majority of services and about 60-70% (IIRCC) of standard filling stations.
Fitting the tank lengthways in the boot is (in theory) an option but I wouldn't be comfortable with that... In a rear end shunt the tank will NOT collapse in any way so will go straight through the seat back :o :o :o
As for new/2nd hand... New all the way, from Teilo (the supplier lots of us have used) His kit is proven to work, fantastic value, guaranteed for 2 years and unlimited miles and there's plenty of support both here and with him :y :y :y
If you like I'll try to arrange meeting up with you when I travel up that way over Christmas so you can have a look :y :y
Thanks for the info mate! I didn’t think there was room under the car for a tank. :(
If you wouldn't mind nipping over to York some time, I would certainly be interested in having a good look round the install! :y
Not a problem.... I should be heading up to Richmond at some point over the festive period :y :y
-
I recently installed lpg on my 2.2, and have a vert toroid in the spare wheel well. Its total capacity is 53 litre, which equates to 43 litre of gas, or about 9.5 gall, so I should get at least 240 miles. I could have fitted one bigger, there is about 2" above it so could hold more. As re the safety check, mine cost £84, however I have since found another garage who will do it for £40. 2nd hand can be ok if you are short of dosh, but make sure you can get software for it, otherwise you are stuck with the previous settings. AND you will have to replace some parts, pipework and in my case a new filler.
Ken
-
I recently installed lpg on my 2.2, and have a vert toroid in the spare wheel well. Its total capacity is 53 litre, which equates to 43 litre of gas, or about 9.5 gall, so I should get at least 240 miles. I could have fitted one bigger, there is about 2" above it so could hold more. As re the safety check, mine cost £84, however I have since found another garage who will do it for £40. 2nd hand can be ok if you are short of dosh, but make sure you can get software for it, otherwise you are stuck with the previous settings. AND you will have to replace some parts, pipework and in my case a new filler.
Ken
Useful-cheers :y
-
Right... Underslung isn't an option with the Miggy because there wouldn't be enough ground clearance.
Vertical Toroidal tank is an option for a saloon (Chrisgsxr has one) but comes at a higher price (financially) and with a reduced range due to the smaller size... That said, even at 150 miles it's not too bad. When I first got my Rangie the range was about 125 miles but there's always the petrol to fall back on. I rarely had a problem finding LPG on (or very near to) my route, wherever I was travelling. Certainly in Europe it's available at the majority of services and about 60-70% (IIRCC) of standard filling stations.
Fitting the tank lengthways in the boot is (in theory) an option but I wouldn't be comfortable with that... In a rear end shunt the tank will NOT collapse in any way so will go straight through the seat back :o :o :o
As for new/2nd hand... New all the way, from Teilo (the supplier lots of us have used) His kit is proven to work, fantastic value, guaranteed for 2 years and unlimited miles and there's plenty of support both here and with him :y :y :y
If you like I'll try to arrange meeting up with you when I travel up that way over Christmas so you can have a look :y :y
Thanks for the info mate! I didn’t think there was room under the car for a tank. :(
If you wouldn't mind nipping over to York some time, I would certainly be interested in having a good look round the install! :y
Not a problem.... I should be heading up to Richmond at some point over the festive period :y :y
Let me know when mate and I will make sure the kettle is on! :y
-
re tank size, 60litre currently fitted, and have seen 54 litres on the pump when filling from empty. If they make a 65 i think that may just fit, its the width thats tight. As said there is enough room above but....
When fitting the tank you have to lay it face down on the boot floor, then slide left and let it tip side ways into the spare wheel well. Its this action that is the deciding factor with the size if iirc. There maybe room when in place. But its "getting it in place" that governs the size if that makes sense. Too wide and too high and there may not be room to get it to clear the boot opening before it drops in. I bet thats clear as mud ;D
-
re tank size, 60litre currently fitted, and have seen 54 litres on the pump when filling from empty. If they make a 65 i think that may just fit, its the width thats tight. As said there is enough room above but....
When fitting the tank you have to lay it face down on the boot floor, then slide left and let it tip side ways into the spare wheel well. Its this action that is the deciding factor with the size if iirc. There maybe room when in place. But its "getting it in place" that governs the size if that makes sense. Too wide and too high and there may not be room to get it to clear the boot opening before it drops in. I bet thats clear as mud ;D
No mate, that makes perfect sense. Bit like getting the spare wheel in/out with the daft bose amp shelf in the way almost! ;D
Still don’t know what to do... Spare wheel tank, or normal in boot tank.
If I get a spare wheel tank, where do I stick the spare wheel? Dont like the idea of it rolling about inside the boot. And I wouldn't like to travel without a spare JUST incase!
However I am now thinking that LPG is the only way.
Parents keep saying 'Get a smaller car' >:( >:(
But I’m not getting rid of the Omega! ;D
-
Only you can decide how much/often you actually use the full capacity of the boot. It might be worth taking everything out and "only" putting in what you NEED for each day for a week or so .. just to see. When I had the full size tank fitted I was a tad concerned .... but now I realise I was actualy very lazy and just left a load of crap in the boot from day-to-day. I now "manage" the boot far better, and don't leave rubbish in all the time.
The only times I really notice the difference are ..
1) Trip to the dump ... now have to use the trailer, but how many times do I go there ... once every couple of months ??
2) Trip to CostCo shopping .. its a fair distance and only worth doing for a "big" shop, so we end up with a fair bit of stuff on the back seat.
3) Main holiday to France...no room for caravan awning and loads of other kit, okies .. it could go inside the 'van but ... As we take bikes on a roof rack .. I've bought a 1/2 width roof box which is bloody huge !!! and last year found a major unexpected advantage... had to pack up in the wet .. so before the boot would have got soaked from the wet awning, or the inside of the van ... but the roof box just didn't care .. and it drained as we drove !!
So what am I saying in a long winded way ?? .. There are ways around the loss of space, and even 1/2 a miggy boot is way bigger than some other full size boots ... I have no regrets at all on having the LPG with an 80 litre tank .. :)
-
Only you can decide how much/often you actually use the full capacity of the boot. It might be worth taking everything out and "only" putting in what you NEED for each day for a week or so .. just to see. When I had the full size tank fitted I was a tad concerned .... but now I realise I was actualy very lazy and just left a load of crap in the boot from day-to-day. I now "manage" the boot far better, and don't leave rubbish in all the time.
The only times I really notice the difference are ..
1) Trip to the dump ... now have to use the trailer, but how many times do I go there ... once every couple of months ??
2) Trip to CostCo shopping .. its a fair distance and only worth doing for a "big" shop, so we end up with a fair bit of stuff on the back seat.
3) Main holiday to France...no room for caravan awning and loads of other kit, okies .. it could go inside the 'van but ... As we take bikes on a roof rack .. I've bought a 1/2 width roof box which is bloody huge !!! and last year found a major unexpected advantage... had to pack up in the wet .. so before the boot would have got soaked from the wet awning, or the inside of the van ... but the roof box just didn't care .. and it drained as we drove !!
So what am I saying in a long winded way ?? .. There are ways around the loss of space, and even 1/2 a miggy boot is way bigger than some other full size boots ... I have no regrets at all on having the LPG with an 80 litre tank .. :)
Well, I can honestly say that I could easily have managed if the boot was glued shut for the past month!
I guess it would stop me collecting crap! ;D
I’m kinda thinking that if I’m going to do it, a should just get on with it and have done! I use the Mig to drive straight across town centre and back everyday in rush hour, and don’t think a spare wheel tank would last very long. Also there’s only one LPG station I can think of in York (at Asda), and its not really on route. (not a million miles away like either!).
I’m already happy with holidays, I have ample space in the caravan for everything. And will probably only be 3 people in the car at the most anyway, so theres always back seats.
I have a small diy trailer too, so if I’m stuck that’s always an option.
And I’ve also remembered that I bought some roof bars about a year ago which I haven’t used yet – so I can always sling stuff ‘upstairs’ ;D
Hmmm.... LPG does make more sence the more I think about it ::)
-
Only you can decide how much/often you actually use the full capacity of the boot. It might be worth taking everything out and "only" putting in what you NEED for each day for a week or so .. just to see. When I had the full size tank fitted I was a tad concerned .... but now I realise I was actualy very lazy and just left a load of crap in the boot from day-to-day. I now "manage" the boot far better, and don't leave rubbish in all the time.
The only times I really notice the difference are ..
1) Trip to the dump ... now have to use the trailer, but how many times do I go there ... once every couple of months ??
2) Trip to CostCo shopping .. its a fair distance and only worth doing for a "big" shop, so we end up with a fair bit of stuff on the back seat.
3) Main holiday to France...no room for caravan awning and loads of other kit, okies .. it could go inside the 'van but ... As we take bikes on a roof rack .. I've bought a 1/2 width roof box which is bloody huge !!! and last year found a major unexpected advantage... had to pack up in the wet .. so before the boot would have got soaked from the wet awning, or the inside of the van ... but the roof box just didn't care .. and it drained as we drove !!
So what am I saying in a long winded way ?? .. There are ways around the loss of space, and even 1/2 a miggy boot is way bigger than some other full size boots ... I have no regrets at all on having the LPG with an 80 litre tank .. :)
Well, I can honestly say that I could easily have managed if the boot was glued shut for the past month!
I guess it would stop me collecting crap! ;D
I’m kinda thinking that if I’m going to do it, a should just get on with it and have done! I use the Mig to drive straight across town centre and back everyday in rush hour, and don’t think a spare wheel tank would last very long. Also there’s only one LPG station I can think of in York (at Asda), and its not really on route. (not a million miles away like either!).
I’m already happy with holidays, I have ample space in the caravan for everything. And will probably only be 3 people in the car at the most anyway, so theres always back seats.
I have a small diy trailer too, so if I’m stuck that’s always an option.
And I’ve also remembered that I bought some roof bars about a year ago which I haven’t used yet – so I can always sling stuff ‘upstairs’ ;D
Hmmm.... LPG does make more sence the more I think about it ::)
I'm coming round to it, too-but really do need the boot space and spare wheel....
I suppose I could lose the spare and stick a foam can in the first aid kit compartment and use the breakdwon cover if needed.
Hmmm.... :-/
-
Only you can decide how much/often you actually use the full capacity of the boot. It might be worth taking everything out and "only" putting in what you NEED for each day for a week or so .. just to see. When I had the full size tank fitted I was a tad concerned .... but now I realise I was actualy very lazy and just left a load of crap in the boot from day-to-day. I now "manage" the boot far better, and don't leave rubbish in all the time.
The only times I really notice the difference are ..
1) Trip to the dump ... now have to use the trailer, but how many times do I go there ... once every couple of months ??
2) Trip to CostCo shopping .. its a fair distance and only worth doing for a "big" shop, so we end up with a fair bit of stuff on the back seat.
3) Main holiday to France...no room for caravan awning and loads of other kit, okies .. it could go inside the 'van but ... As we take bikes on a roof rack .. I've bought a 1/2 width roof box which is bloody huge !!! and last year found a major unexpected advantage... had to pack up in the wet .. so before the boot would have got soaked from the wet awning, or the inside of the van ... but the roof box just didn't care .. and it drained as we drove !!
So what am I saying in a long winded way ?? .. There are ways around the loss of space, and even 1/2 a miggy boot is way bigger than some other full size boots ... I have no regrets at all on having the LPG with an 80 litre tank .. :)
Well, I can honestly say that I could easily have managed if the boot was glued shut for the past month!
I guess it would stop me collecting crap! ;D
I’m kinda thinking that if I’m going to do it, a should just get on with it and have done! I use the Mig to drive straight across town centre and back everyday in rush hour, and don’t think a spare wheel tank would last very long. Also there’s only one LPG station I can think of in York (at Asda), and its not really on route. (not a million miles away like either!).
I’m already happy with holidays, I have ample space in the caravan for everything. And will probably only be 3 people in the car at the most anyway, so theres always back seats.
I have a small diy trailer too, so if I’m stuck that’s always an option.
And I’ve also remembered that I bought some roof bars about a year ago which I haven’t used yet – so I can always sling stuff ‘upstairs’ ;D
Hmmm.... LPG does make more sence the more I think about it ::)
I'm coming round to it, too-but really do need the boot space and spare wheel....
I suppose I could lose the spare and stick a foam can in the first aid kit compartment and use the breakdwon cover if needed.
Hmmm.... :-/
Only other option I thought about was finding a space saver wheel. Could make a small holder for it in the boot then, and if the boot space was needed, I could shove the spare in the passenger footwell. :-/
-
Only you can decide how much/often you actually use the full capacity of the boot. It might be worth taking everything out and "only" putting in what you NEED for each day for a week or so .. just to see. When I had the full size tank fitted I was a tad concerned .... but now I realise I was actualy very lazy and just left a load of crap in the boot from day-to-day. I now "manage" the boot far better, and don't leave rubbish in all the time.
The only times I really notice the difference are ..
1) Trip to the dump ... now have to use the trailer, but how many times do I go there ... once every couple of months ??
2) Trip to CostCo shopping .. its a fair distance and only worth doing for a "big" shop, so we end up with a fair bit of stuff on the back seat.
3) Main holiday to France...no room for caravan awning and loads of other kit, okies .. it could go inside the 'van but ... As we take bikes on a roof rack .. I've bought a 1/2 width roof box which is bloody huge !!! and last year found a major unexpected advantage... had to pack up in the wet .. so before the boot would have got soaked from the wet awning, or the inside of the van ... but the roof box just didn't care .. and it drained as we drove !!
So what am I saying in a long winded way ?? .. There are ways around the loss of space, and even 1/2 a miggy boot is way bigger than some other full size boots ... I have no regrets at all on having the LPG with an 80 litre tank .. :)
Well, I can honestly say that I could easily have managed if the boot was glued shut for the past month!
I guess it would stop me collecting crap! ;D
I’m kinda thinking that if I’m going to do it, a should just get on with it and have done! I use the Mig to drive straight across town centre and back everyday in rush hour, and don’t think a spare wheel tank would last very long. Also there’s only one LPG station I can think of in York (at Asda), and its not really on route. (not a million miles away like either!).
I’m already happy with holidays, I have ample space in the caravan for everything. And will probably only be 3 people in the car at the most anyway, so theres always back seats.
I have a small diy trailer too, so if I’m stuck that’s always an option.
And I’ve also remembered that I bought some roof bars about a year ago which I haven’t used yet – so I can always sling stuff ‘upstairs’ ;D
Hmmm.... LPG does make more sence the more I think about it ::)
I'm coming round to it, too-but really do need the boot space and spare wheel....
I suppose I could lose the spare and stick a foam can in the first aid kit compartment and use the breakdwon cover if needed.
Hmmm.... :-/
space aside, i think biggest is best when it comes to economy, the bigger your tank the least likely you are to run out before finding another station, esp on holiday or in unfamiliar territory, or just getting to your usual.
About once a month have to stick £20 of petrol in, partly due to the start up on petrol thing which is unavoidable obviously, but also because i run out of lpg now and then and have to do part of a work journey on petrol, maybe others with bigger tanks do the same when knowing they/we have petrol to fall back on, maybe not, but i am sure i would use less petrol if i had a bigger lpg tank....therefore bigger is cheaper.... to my thinking anyway.
But in my case, re space, donut it is and thats that.....but would always encourage the biggest tank possible :y
re spare wheel, its in the garage! Boots empty, ment to get a can of tyre weld, didnt get round to it....
Fitted new tyres a month or so ago, you guessed it, nail in the tyre by the time i got home. Left it to the morning and drove back to the tyre place and they fixed it. Tyre lost 3 psi in about 14 hours.
Now i dont want to tempt fate again, but when did you last see a puncture? in my experience with a nail or screw,it dont go down straight away. I check my pressures regular, and do tend to notice if one is low when driving. I once had a screw in a bike tyre for over a week, no money to repair it. Just kept pumping it up. ::) :o
But your right of course, always best to have the spare obviously.
I did have the spare in the boot for a while, never noticed it was there. Being rubber it doesn't slide about. Suppose i should put it back in.... ::) ;D
-
How long do the V6's need to run first thing in the morning before they are warm enough to switch onto LPG?
-
How long do the V6's need to run first thing in the morning before they are warm enough to switch onto LPG?
depends on the weather, its 15 seconds or above 20 degrees the way its set at the moment( think thats right :-/ ), so in warm weather 15 seconds, in cold weather it will wait until engine temp. is above 20c or it will run grumpy. That can take some time on mine in freezing temp. but i think Kevin may have changed the settings since then. will find out soon with winter coming.....
-
Engine temp as low as 20 degrees? Thought it would have beem much warmer. Was thinking 80ish :o
Thats better than I thought then! :y
-
Engine temp as low as 20 degrees? Thought it would have beem much warmer. Was thinking 80ish :o
Thats better than I thought then! :y
Coolent temp. Think thats what it says in the settings? May be wrong though. I'm sure Kevin will put me right.....
-
Engine temp as low as 20 degrees? Thought it would have beem much warmer. Was thinking 80ish :o
Thats better than I thought then! :y
Coolent temp. Not air temp. Think thats what it says in the settings? May be wrong though. I'm sure Kevin will put me right.....
Eh? I was meaning engine temp (water to be exact). ;)
Would that mean that in the middle of summer you could almost start it on gas straight away? :o
-
Engine temp as low as 20 degrees? Thought it would have beem much warmer. Was thinking 80ish :o
Thats better than I thought then! :y
Coolent temp. Not air temp. Think thats what it says in the settings? May be wrong though. I'm sure Kevin will put me right.....
Eh? I was meaning engine temp (water to be exact). ;)
Would that mean that in the middle of summer you could almost start it on gas straight away? :o
Aw thought i'd got away with that. Sorry, obviously not air temp. Almost straight away i guess, but i haven't played with it to that extent though, means plugging the lap top to fiddle with the settings....
KEVIN, HELP he's asking technical questions again!
-
Engine temp as low as 20 degrees? Thought it would have beem much warmer. Was thinking 80ish :o
Thats better than I thought then! :y
Coolent temp. Not air temp. Think thats what it says in the settings? May be wrong though. I'm sure Kevin will put me right.....
Eh? I was meaning engine temp (water to be exact). ;)
Would that mean that in the middle of summer you could almost start it on gas straight away? :o
Aw thought i'd got away with that. Sorry, obviously not air temp. Almost straight away i guess, but i haven't played with it to that extent though, means plugging the lap top to fiddle with the settings....
KEVIN, HELP he's asking technical questions again!
;D ;D I haven’t even started yet.. ;) ;)
Only Omega I’ve seen running on LPG was a one about 18 months ago. And it was running a good few minuets on petrol before it clicked onto gas - Wasn't a cold day either as far as I remember.
I was worried thinking that if the above was normal, mine would only be running on gas half of the time! :-X
-
Sorry to hijack this thread but I was looking at doing this too a while back. I am pretty good with spanners but how difficult is it to do? The kit I'm looking at comes with engine mapping software. Is this best left to the professionals? Its also a sequential kit, isthis the better option?
-
Sorry to hijack this thread but I was looking at doing this too a while back. I am pretty good with spanners but how difficult is it to do? The kit I'm looking at comes with engine mapping software. Is this best left to the professionals? Its also a sequential kit, isthis the better option?
Its all about research imho, knowing what to do before you do it. Where stuff goes and how to go about it in advance. In short getting it right first time job done. You can waist an awfull lot of time trying and seeing, altering and buggering about.
Its not difficult, tapping the inlet manifold, and wiring into the loom by the ecu plug are the hardest jobs imho. But those that have done wiring and soldering before find it easy enough. Depends on your experience. It can be a daunting task, but with the help on here, almost anything is possible. :-)
Edit to add
Sequential(one injector per cylinder firing in sequence) is the only option if you want it to work.
Mixer type systems are not suitable for these engines due to the risk of back fires and exploding plenums and air intaker apparently. Bugger that.
-
Right, the switch over to gas is based on 2 factors on the Stag ECU. Vapouriser temperature and time since start. You can also set RPM thresholds, etc. but it switches over smoothly with no tendency to stall so there's no need, IMHO.
The vapouriser temperature is close to (but lags slightly behind) coolant temperature since the vapouriser has a water jacket around it.
The vapouriser doesn't actually need to be that hot to operate. It just needs a good flow of coolant that ensures it doesn't ice up. It does take a lot of heat out of that coolant under sustained engine load (about a kilowatt during a fast motorway cruise) but rarely is that experienced on a stone cold engine, so I find 20-25 degrees C will work fine.
The engine ECU will apply enrichment after starting (even when hot) based on the assumption that it is running on petrol. These enrichments don't work for LPG (LPG doesn't condense on the walls of the inlet manifold, for example) so if you let it switch over straight after startup (whether hot or cold) it will run lumpy.
For this reason I tend to set a low switchover temperature (20-25 deg. c) but quite a long delay (15-30 seconds) to allow the startup enrichment to decay before it switches to LPG.
During the summer, it has switched to LPG before I get to the end of my road (a few hundred yards). In winter it takes perhaps 0.25-0.5 miles.
Some would argue that switching over when the vapouriser is cool will lead to more "heavy ends" being deposited in the vapouriser. That may be true, but they will surely be "boiled off" again when the engine reaches full working temperature IMHO. As long as you generally do long enough journeys that the engine gets to full working temperature I don't see a problem.
Kevin
-
There, what he said. :-)
Certainly no problems here Kev, thanks to your fine tuning and experience. Well happy :-)
-
Very interesting Kevin, thanks for that. Only experience with LPG i had was that horrid mixer system, its good to know it can switch over within half a mile! :)
This is totally automatic as well? Its set in the ECU, I was thinking i might forget sometimes to switch it over on a morning commute ::)
-
Yes, it's automatic. Bit of a pain, IME, because if the tank is empty and you've switched to petrol it still tries to switch over every time you start the car, and then beeps at you.
Kevin
-
Thanks for that Kevin. I thought that in summer I would be looking at half a mile before I could switch to gas, and a couple of miles in winter! I was 'miles' off literally! ;D
I’m still amazed that the vaporiser can take up to a kw of heat out of the coolant. Now I know that butane / propane can be used as a refrigerant, so it makes perfect sense, but still amazing! :-X
You say the switchover from Petrol to LPG is automatic. What about the other way round? If your driving down the motorway and you run out of LPG, what happens? ::)
And again, if your LPG tank is empty, I assume that it wont automatically switch over to the find out that there’s no gas left! :-?
-
I’m still amazed that the vaporiser can take up to a kw of heat out of the coolant. Now I know that butane / propane can be used as a refrigerant, so it makes perfect sense, but still amazing! Lips Sealed
Well, it has to boil the fuel to turn liquid into vapour. That might seem silly when the liquid boils at -40, but it's still taking heat from its' environment to do so. If you don't provide heat from somewhere the vapouriser will ice up.
If you multiply the rate of fuel consumption by the latent heat of vapourisation of propane you do get about 1kw IIRC. Did the csums once out of interest. :-[
You say the switchover from Petrol to LPG is automatic. What about the other way round? If your driving down the motorway and you run out of LPG, what happens? Roll Eyes
Yep. It's automatic. First thing you know about it is when it beeps at you. As soon as the vapour pressure drops it flicks back to petrol without so much as a misfire.
And again, if your LPG tank is empty, I assume that it wont automatically switch over to the find out that there’s no gas left! Huh
Well, yes, it does - once, when you start up. The only way it knows it's empty is when the pressure drops as soon as it starts injecting vapour.
Kevin
-
i have noticed you can milk it even if it has run out once. For instance, your blasting down the motorway.sorry, my own private test track, at 90 say. Then the beeper goes off, the red light is on the little gauge, you press the button to turn the beeper off and confirm you know its run out....or has it? Slow down to 70 and press the button again to turn it back to lpg and it will run for while at that speed and so on until it really has run out. Or turn off the motor way and drive at 30 you can get more out of it. But by that stage if you boot it obviously the buzzer goes off and your straight back on petrol, gets boring after a while, but hope that gives an idea how it works. :-)
-
Right... Balls to it... Just looked on petrol prices website. Asda is the only LPG station inside York (I thought it was).
49.9p Per Litre! :o
So, what do I need to do to get the ball rolling? ;D
TBH, I would be daft not to convert to LPG the more and more I think about it... ::)
-
Pm Lazydocker for Tailo's phone number.
-
Pm Lazydocker for Tailo's phone number.
He's been really busy lately, i need to ring back for the 3rd time today to get a quote from him. But he is a top bloke, just mega busy it seams
-
Right... Balls to it... Just looked on petrol prices website. Asda is the only LPG station inside York (I thought it was).
49.9p Per Litre! :o
So, what do I need to do to get the ball rolling? ;D
TBH, I would be daft not to convert to LPG the more and more I think about it... ::)
Fek sake, BP here, its 57p >:(
-
paid 59.9 at the shell services on the m40 near wycombe. Yet the BP just south off jcn 11 on the m4 is 53.9, cheapest round here afaik.
-
Pm Lazydocker for Tailo's phone number.
He's been really busy lately, i need to ring back for the 3rd time today to get a quote from him. But he is a top bloke, just mega busy it seams
Cheers I will send him a PM later on :y
-
Right... Balls to it... Just looked on petrol prices website. Asda is the only LPG station inside York (I thought it was).
49.9p Per Litre! :o
So, what do I need to do to get the ball rolling? ;D
TBH, I would be daft not to convert to LPG the more and more I think about it... ::)
Fek sake, BP here, its 57p >:(
:D :D :D :P :P :P 8-) 8-)
-
There's a small garage in Batley doing it for 49.9p AND they have a loyalty card scheme, fill up with stamps and get 35L free :y :y :y
er do any petrol stations do that :-X
ken