Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Car Chat => Topic started by: cruisetopoland on 17 July 2010, 20:25:02
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Hi folks; just bought a little runabout and thought someone might know what to do-I know its not an Omega but there are many clever fixers on here :)
It is a 989cc Daihatsu engine, 3 cylinder 12v, double overhead cam, which was stinking of oil when it arrived. Traced this to a split oil filter seal, did an oil and filter change and cleaned the mess off, now dry.
I have had three cars with the same engine, but this one is just not quite right:
Happy when cold, lazier when warm
Happiest on light throttle, bogs slightly on full throttle
Using a little oil
Black smoke on full throttle when standing
Very fumy, mildly eggy under demand
Slight smoke from hole where dip goes in, when hot and dipstick removed
I have checked the plugs, changed the oil, used posh fuel and treatment and then thrashed it to undo 27k of OAP pootling, checked underside on ramp and exhaust is nearly new and leak free, air filter changed and box hoovered. No oil in water, water in oil.
These engines are usually bomb-proof and do 150k without issue. Ideas, anyone?
Much appreciated (especially as not Omega!) :y :y
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Hi folks; just bought a little runabout and thought someone might know what to do-I know its not an Omega but there are many clever fixers on here :)
It is a 989cc Daihatsu engine, 3 cylinder 12v, double overhead cam, which was stinking of oil when it arrived. Traced this to a split oil filter seal, did an oil and filter change and cleaned the mess off, now dry.
I have had three cars with the same engine, but this one is just not quite right:
Happy when cold, lazier when warm
Happiest on light throttle, bogs slightly on full throttle
Using a little oil
Black smoke on full throttle when standing
Very fumy, mildly eggy under demand
Slight smoke from hole where dip goes in, when hot and dipstick removed
I have checked the plugs, changed the oil, used posh fuel and treatment and then thrashed it to undo 27k of OAP pootling, checked underside on ramp and exhaust is nearly new and leak free, air filter changed and box hoovered. No oil in water, water in oil.
These engines are usually bomb-proof and do 150k without issue. Ideas, anyone?
Much appreciated (especially as not Omega!) :y :y
catalytic convertor?
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cat or needs italian tune up :y
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cat or needs italian tune up :y
Agreed :y
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italian tune up= roll it down a mountain?
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thanks guys :y
It has just passed MOT last week, emissions fine then :-?
Being electronic ignition, can't tune it.
Have thrashed the bejesus out of it trying to clear it out.
Drives ok, but not as this engine should. COuld it be anything else?
Advice much appreciated :y :y :y
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Sounds like it's running a little rich under load. Could it be a MAP/MAF sensor issue, coolant temperature sensor, etc?
Kevin
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I had a similar problem with a 3 cyl. corsa, ran fine when cold but did not want to work when warm / hot.
changed everything and cleaned everything. even had it on the computer at a garage with no result. eventualy I found the problem,
It was a streched timing chain. so I bought a timing chain kit, changed it and it ran like mad,
if yours has a timing chain it might be a good idea to get it checked out.
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I would be thinking MAP/MAF.
I would also be doing a very major breather/throttle body service to.
From my (limited) experience of these lumps, they seem to wear quite quickly so could be a ring issue (seen a few like that at 80K ish miles)
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I had a similar problem with a 3 cyl. corsa, ran fine when cold but did not want to work when warm / hot.
changed everything and cleaned everything. even had it on the computer at a garage with no result. eventualy I found the problem,
It was a streched timing chain. so I bought a timing chain kit, changed it and it ran like mad,
if yours has a timing chain it might be a good idea to get it checked out.
Wooh, good point :y
Belt is overdue due to age. £22 delivered from main dealer or £90 fitted-fairly straightforward job.
Will add to "the list" (deja vu anyone?) ;D
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Sounds like it's running a little rich under load. Could it be a MAP/MAF sensor issue, coolant temperature sensor, etc?
Kevin
Good point-will check these :y
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I would be thinking MAP/MAF.
I would also be doing a very major breather/throttle body service to.
From my (limited) experience of these lumps, they seem to wear quite quickly so could be a ring issue (seen a few like that at 80K ish miles)
God, hope its not a ring issue at 27k miles :o
Will do the overdue belt and a sensor check, plus give the throttle body etc a birthday :y
Many thanks
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i used to have a gtti [i think] back in the 80s was very quick and reved all the way.
havnt seen one for years
only time it felt sluggish was when i fitted a patten air filter.
dont know if you know but the also made a 3 cyl diesel,had one once from the dealer while he serviced my car,it was very.very slow.
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i used to have a gtti [i think] back in the 80s was very quick and reved all the way.
havnt seen one for years
only time it felt sluggish was when i fitted a patten air filter.
dont know if you know but the also made a 3 cyl diesel,had one once from the dealer while he serviced my car,it was very.very slow.
Lol, I sorted out a 3cylinder turbo diesel one, the owner had gifted it to a friend because the garage said it was scrap with a knackered engine.
The main fault was the old sod who owned it did not beleave in servicing so a good flush and most importantly, a new air filter later and it was quite nippy.
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Update:
Just had breathers and throttle body to bits.
Breather pipe wringing, intake saturated with oil. On opening filler, there is oil lying there.
Also-the new oil (300 miles ago) is now black as tar :o
Eeek?
What to do?
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Update:
Just had breathers and throttle body to bits.
Breather pipe wringing, intake saturated with oil. On opening filler, there is oil lying there.
Also-the new oil (300 miles ago) is now black as tar :o
Eeek?
What to do?
Clean it all up and get it breathing right then do a few short oil changes
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Update:
Just had breathers and throttle body to bits.
Breather pipe wringing, intake saturated with oil. On opening filler, there is oil lying there.
Also-the new oil (300 miles ago) is now black as tar :o
Eeek?
What to do?
Clean it all up and get it breathing right then do a few short oil changes
Cheers Mark
I have accessed a few sites for this particular engine and they say that under harsh load, they have a tendency to send oil down the breather-in their home country a breather catch tank is regularly fitted to stop the issue.
Is there a particular reason or fault in mine (27k miles) to send so much oil?
Should that be investigated before cleaning up and fitting a £30 catch tank?
Which to fit-the top filter on non-filter type?
I think as long as there is no serious issue in the engine itself that is causing this oil in the breather pipe, that this will sort it.
Comments, anyone? :y :y
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If you haven't had to modify the breathers on previous cars it begs the question why you should on this one.
Yes, there might be a greater tendency for them to block if they are passing oil and the oil is dirty. If that has persisted to allow the crankcase to get manky it might have affected piston ring seal.
I would follow Mark's advice. Clear the breathers, run a few oil changes through it and see if that is helping.
Kevin
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Update:
Just had breathers and throttle body to bits.
Breather pipe wringing, intake saturated with oil. On opening filler, there is oil lying there.
Also-the new oil (300 miles ago) is now black as tar :o
Eeek?
What to do?
Clean it all up and get it breathing right then do a few short oil changes
Cheers Mark
I have accessed a few sites for this particular engine and they say that under harsh load, they have a tendency to send oil down the breather-in their home country a breather catch tank is regularly fitted to stop the issue.
Is there a particular reason or fault in mine (27k miles) to send so much oil?
Should that be investigated before cleaning up and fitting a £30 catch tank?
Which to fit-the top filter on non-filter type?
I think as long as there is no serious issue in the engine itself that is causing this oil in the breather pipe, that this will sort it.
Comments, anyone? :y :y
Past more general experience sudgests that a major cause of oil the inlet via the breatehrs is either:
1) Poor servicing resulting in a clogged air filter.
2) Large amounts of blow by gases.
We knwo they are not a particularly robust unit with respect to wear but, the mileage is low. Given what you describe of the oil, it could well be a very clogged air filter.
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Oil and air filters are new :y
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Oil and air filters are new :y
Is it still doing it?
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Oil and air filters are new :y
Is it still doing it?
Yes....
Took it to my tame kit car building client earlier, who took breather, throttle body, and all associated bits off and blew them through. Hole into air intake tiny, seemed like mis-manufacture, enlarged this and also blew clear a pipe off the throttle body.
We checked the oil and....it has disappeared... >:(
Put it all together, gave it a good few revs....palls of blue smoke.
You were right (as usual!)-it looks like rings or valve seals have gone :'(
Damn, damn, damn. Only bought this as a stop-gap after selling my 2007 car for a great price. Looks like the repairs will be £££££££££.
My fault-bought it on trust, trade sale after having three high milers with the same engine with no issues whatsoever-one had over 100k and ran like new. Daft thing is, like the Omega, I have done loads of other time consuming jobs to perfect it and make it look new.
What now? ::) >:( :( :-[
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It sadly wont be the valve seals....a quick compression test would be worth while
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It sadly wont be the valve seals....a quick compression test would be worth while
Will do, cheers :y :y
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Right; sorted-man of action!! Has got progressively worse and engine has had professional assessment as being "beyond economical repair".
Found engine/box out of rear end shunted 2006 car with 12k miles on it on ebay today, very helpful Poles selling it are doing 200 miles round trip to do the engine change in my mate's garage on Saturday for £400 all in.
This is great news as cambelt was due on my 2003 engine, costing about £100 and is not due on this newer engine, plus the decent gearbox being taken out of my own car should fetch £100-odd on ebay, and whatever I can get for the manky engine; scrap?? Plus I can go to work on Saturday and have no fuel/faffing time costs; and clean hands ;D
So total cost to me will be less than £200 net if all goes well (!!) and I did buy the car cheaply enough in the first place. It is a lovely little thing; odd, but sweet and we both like it-will be glad to be able to keep it.
Hopefully this will be the end of the woeful tale :-?
Thanks for all the help on a non-Omega topic :y
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Further to above if any experts still awake....!
Bought the car, huge oily mess of an engine, took into garage, said mess was from kinked oil filter seal, replaced oil and filter (recommended 5w30 semi-synth), cleaned off, mess not come back.
Running a bit less lively than the last three with same motor, so pondered on what to do, added 400ml Comma concentrated Petrol Magic fuel additive in 30l of "EvoX" type petrol-said use all of it in a tank of fuel.
Caned the living jerusalem out of it for 150 miles, still a bit slow, got smokier. Filled up with same posh fuel.
Went to kit car mate who removed air intakes, throttle bodies, breather pipe, vacuum pipes-chock full of mid-brown gunge/oil, cleaned out, re-assembled. Revved it to hell, loads of blue and black smoke. Oil down to min from full on oil change 2 days ago-put in 10x40 fully synth as was only thing we had.
Smoke got worse, took it to garage, said rings gone, another 100 miles, another min-max top-up with oil-this time 10w40 semi-synth.
This morning started it and revved gently to take a look-lost the car in a world of acrid white smoke with rings and a few puffs of blue/black, took it easy today for 80 miles including some steep hills. Much less smoke than yesterday, running better. Checked oil when cooled down-same as this morning-none used.
Tonight after going cold for 6 hours; started instantly, no smoke, warmed it up, thrashed the living hell out of it for 30 miles; idles perfectly, starts perfectly, pulls cleanly but some brown smoke on hard revving at standstill. Breather still clean after 200-odd miles, but does breath out noticeably under power; very slightly smoky-normal? Exhaust smells normal, eggyness completely gone; if anything a bit rich. Marginally better performance when cold than hot, but drives 100% with no hiccups or loss of power. Minimal fuel use, sounds fine at tickover, slight rattle on very harsh tickover to rev limiter while standing-as has been on the other three.
I'm thinking that this may be a temporary issue as diddled around by OAP for 7 years and 27k miles; the whole 400ml concentrated fuel additive was a bit overkill in 30l especially with 97 detergent fuel; this has dislodged a world of crap that has been burnt, hence the smoke. No water in oil/oil in water.
Questions:
Is the breather supposed to noticeably push out a fair quantity of slightly smoky air, when red hot and revved out at standstilll?
Why was this full of old oil and crap?
Were my MAF/throttle bodies damaged by all the former oil and crap, hence the rich running/brown smoke?
Is oil use and blue smoke while using detergent/cleaner normal? (bear in mind 400ml in 30l of strong fuel)
Have the different types of oil affected it?
I think I will postpone engine change and run it for another week and monitor it :-/ but any comments much appreciated :y :y :y :y
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Is the breather supposed to noticeably push out a fair quantity of slightly smoky air, when red hot and revved out at standstilll?
Probably just steam from moisture by products of combustion boiling off or a little blowby. See how it goes.
Why was this full of old oil and crap?
Neglected oil changes and too much "miss daisy" causes dirty oil. Dirt is splashed into breather with fumes, some sticks, breather blocks, even more crud forms in engine as there is now no way out.
Was my MAF/throttle bodies damaged by all the former oil and crap, hence the rich running/brown smoke
Don't know. Normally MAF is well upstream of any breathers for this very reason.
Is oil use and blue smoke while using detergent/cleaner normal? (bear in mind 300m in 30l)
I think either it was so cruddy that the piston rings were previously sticking or additives have dislodged a lot of crud in one go and this made matters worse for a while. A good spanking creates pressure to push the piston rings against the cylinder bores and bed them back in, so matters then improve.
Have the different types of oil affected it?
No. you're only talking about a relatively small change in viscosity IMHO. It wouldn't make a drastic difference to oil consumption / smoke on a worn engine.
I would say keep it for now. Run it, keeping an eye on the oil condition, level and breathers. If oil gets black, change it for some cheap mineral oil, and repeat until oil stays clean. If breathers show signs of blocking, clean them out. See how it goes. :y
If the consumption and smoke have got better it's because there was only a temporary issue, IMHO. Engines can temporarily show symptoms of being knackered but unlikely to show temporary symptoms of being fixed when actually badly worn (unless they have just run out of oil, in which case very temporary!).
Kevin
Kevin
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Is the breather supposed to noticeably push out a fair quantity of slightly smoky air, when red hot and revved out at standstilll?
Probably just steam from moisture by products of combustion boiling off or a little blowby. See how it goes.
Why was this full of old oil and crap?
Neglected oil changes and too much "miss daisy" causes dirty oil. Dirt is splashed into breather with fumes, some sticks, breather blocks, even more crud forms in engine as there is now no way out.
Was my MAF/throttle bodies damaged by all the former oil and crap, hence the rich running/brown smoke
Don't know. Normally MAF is well upstream of any breathers for this very reason.
Is oil use and blue smoke while using detergent/cleaner normal? (bear in mind 300m in 30l)
I think either it was so cruddy that the piston rings were previously sticking or additives have dislodged a lot of crud in one go and this made matters worse for a while. A good spanking creates pressure to push the piston rings against the cylinder bores and bed them back in, so matters then improve.
Have the different types of oil affected it?
No. you're only talking about a relatively small change in viscosity IMHO. It wouldn't make a drastic difference to oil consumption / smoke on a worn engine.
I would say keep it for now. Run it, keeping an eye on the oil condition, level and breathers. If oil gets black, change it for some cheap mineral oil, and repeat until oil stays clean. If breathers show signs of blocking, clean them out. See how it goes. :y
If the consumption and smoke have got better it's because there was only a temporary issue, IMHO. Engines can temporarily show symptoms of being knackered but unlikely to show temporary symptoms of being fixed when actually badly worn (unless they have just run out of oil, in which case very temporary!).
Kevin
Kevin
Cheers Kevin-that's really helpful :y :y :y
I'm starting to believe it may right itself once the treated fuel is completely used up and normal fuel used until the crap has been burnt off. Breathers now look clean and tidy, oil has been topped up and each time got cleaner; ie not blackened each time. Now seems to not burn any oil, just a bit of brown smoke when revved hard at standstill.
It would be a mega result if this was the case; could do without spending £400++
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Yep, sounds like you may have had stuck rings.....I would repeat the process again and monitor things.
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Update; after 30 miles 6,000 rpm thrash last night eggy smell went, slight brown smoke under heavy revving.
This morning-oil dropped quarter way from max-min from checking before the 30 mile hard run last night. Started up, slight blue/white smoke, let it idle, revved it-palls and palls of acrid white smoke with some blue and grey, kept revving it until it cleared. Now giving blue smoke on throttle and used half max-min in 20 miles this morning. Starts and drives perfect, though....
I have the engine change booked for Saturday am; what do I do?
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Update; after 30 miles 6,000 rpm thrash last night eggy smell went, slight brown smoke under heavy revving.
This morning-oil dropped quarter way from max-min from checking before the 30 mile hard run last night. Started up, slight blue/white smoke, let it idle, revved it-palls and palls of acrid white smoke with some blue and grey, kept revving it until it cleared. Now giving blue smoke on throttle. Drives perfect.
I have the engine change booked for Saturday am; what do I do?
Go for the engine change.......
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Update; after 30 miles 6,000 rpm thrash last night eggy smell went, slight brown smoke under heavy revving.
This morning-oil dropped quarter way from max-min from checking before the 30 mile hard run last night. Started up, slight blue/white smoke, let it idle, revved it-palls and palls of acrid white smoke with some blue and grey, kept revving it until it cleared. Now giving blue smoke on throttle. Drives perfect.
I have the engine change booked for Saturday am; what do I do?
Go for the engine change.......
The boys are coming with the 2006, 12,000 mile engine tomorrow-there is no alternative :'(
Done 500 miles this week and cleared out the treated fuel completely. Starts fine, goes like a rocket but smokes under throttle and STINKS-looks like at least one piston ring has bought it. Consensus seems to be that the oil that was in there was doctored with "no smoke" treatment, when that was changed and the fuel additive added, it was violently removed and so the engine resumed its former issues.
Nice to be "had" isn't it ::)
Still, it'll be done soon and it should last a while....
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Update with what the fault was....
Engine came out, exhaust ports for cylinders 1 and 3 we very oily, 2 was clean, so looks like rings were shot on both 1 and 3. Engine side of cat oily, other side cleaner, exhaust full of crap.
Guys did engine out and new one in in under 5 hours, with new filters, coolant, oil, all adjustments. Perfect order first time; sounds like new.
Gutted about having to do it, but glad it is over-hope this is the end of it all; still the cost will be tempered by the resale of the perfect original gearbox, the sale of the engine for repairs, plus the fact I do not have to do the cambelt or service planned for the old engine.
Oh well ::)
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Alls well that ends well I suppose? You do seem to have had your pockets raided endlessly over the past year or so though mate :(
Hope this is the last of it & you can settle down to some happy motoring :y
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Alls well that ends well I suppose? You do seem to have had your pockets raided endlessly over the past year or so though mate :(
Hope this is the last of it & you can settle down to some happy motoring :y
Cheers, Phil
Our other car (Myvi) has been faultless, cost free and will make us a profit if we ever sell it, the other Myvi we sold made us a profit of £200 over 8,000 miles. We bought this little car as a cheapie and got bitten, but it should end ok.
Still wincing over the loss on the Omega and the huge effort, but it got us to Poland for Christmas-thanks to a lot of help from OOF :y :y
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Well, on to car 94....
Sold this for £90 more than I originally paid for it, but the £440 engine change cost still owes £350, but;
1/ I still have the engine (for spares)/ perfect clutch/box/driveshafts/coils/sensors that came out of the car to sell
2/ The guy who bought it gave me his old car with 2 months MOT and 9 months tax which will run me around for two months and then be worth £500 if it passes an MOT or scrap value plus the £60 tax refund.
Phew....a sorry chapter....finished ... 8-)
Thanks to all who posted :y
When will I learn ;D
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As my old Grandfather often told me..."if you gotta have hosses, you hafta have losses"
It's sooooo true.
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As my old Grandfather often told me..."if you gotta have hosses, you hafta have losses"
It's sooooo true.
;D :y :y
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Definitely worth a compression check, to eliminate valves and rings. Unlikely nowadays I know, but with the smoke etc...... :-/ :-/ :-/
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Well, I seem to have dropped on with the free car-a Rover 111 Knightsbridge.
One owner and only 41,911 miles
£850 spent on 2008 MOT
Last MOT had new exhaust and 2 new tyres
It had really scruffy bumpers and a vandalised front wing, but by sheer luck I won the matching colour parts on ebay for £1 starting bid each-spent the £3 (!!) and collected them, spent an hour fitting them and now it looks really smart. Fitted an RDS Blaupunkt radio cassette from the boot sale (£1!) and an old aerial that was off one of my previous cars-and now we have sounds too!
MOT due end Oct, but it had only done 200 miles since the last one and with a bit of faffing and tidying, it might be ok. I have done 1000 faultless miles in 10 days in it and have been surprised how civil it is-very comfortable and quiet....all at 40p/mile expenses ;D ;D ;D
I thought it may die any minute when I first dug it out of the pile of leaves, swept it out, scrubbed the sap off it, put some air in the tyres and fired it up. If it did and I scrapped it now, I would still get £50++ scrap/ebay and £80 tax refund-and it has already paid me £400 (-£100 fuel) in expenses :y :y :y
Like it ;D
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A 111! ;D they are brilliant, if you can gaffer tape up the rusty bits and put up with squeaky suspension, they go on forever, mine was 'given' to a mate with 197k on the clock and a free roll of gaffer tape. :y
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hahaha-I taped the rusty arches up this week ;D ;D
Did 1000 enjoyable 50+ mpg miles, spent £1 on an RDS radio cassette at the boot sale, £1 each on colour keyed bumpers and a matching front wing, then sold it for £250 :y
So:
Car free
Bits £4
Fuel cost £100
Total cost £104
40p/mile £400
Sale price £250
Total rec'd £650
Total profit £545-this makes up for the loss on the last car (which I claimed £000s in mileage for anyway)
I liked this 3 door 111 so much that I have now bought a 5 door 1998 Rover 114; very nice tidy car with 1 elderly lady owner, 37k miles and always garaged, new MOT, new rear arches, a Mother-of-God main dealer only history file with 12 main dealer services (eg 200 miles ago had major service, new headlights, key fobs, belts-cost £680).
It is mint and the wood trim and pearlescent purple/blue look smart, it drives really well and there is not much for me to do; a couple of minute OAP bumper scuffs to touch in with the stick provided and one sunroof handle screw needs replacing/sealing. All for £600 plus the old (free) one :y
£850 is a lot for an old 100, but this one is doing 50mpg+, does not overheat and seems perfect so far.
It will soon be paid for @40p/mile ;)
A happy ending for a frustrating episode :y