Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Car Chat => Topic started by: feeutfo on 29 December 2010, 09:41:23
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What was the official reason ? To start with...
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I believe it was cooling issues on high speed endurance testing
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I think it was cooling issues when driving with full throttle on autobahns... I also somehow remember reading it was about oil pressure issue in the same situation... You must have read this, the components seem to be available...
http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/conversions-hybrids/778988-ls1-into-cadillac-catera-56k-death.html
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i seriously like that engine ;D ;D ;D
looks like less room than the v6 to work on though------but who cares its a v8 ;D ;D ;D ;)
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Rumour has it the engine was not "vollgasfest" meaning "resistant to full throttle"- a German test that ensures the car can be driven flat out for a considerable period of time without damage.
The chevy V8 was built for Americans plodding around at 65 MPH, so there were engine design issues that weren't easy to overcome, allegedly.
Not sure how they got over this with the Monaro (do they sell it in Germany?) and other LS-engined cars. :-/
That's the urban legend, anyway. Could just be that the bean counters cancelled it, of course.
Kevin
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Rumour has it the engine was not "vollgasfest" meaning "resistant to full throttle"- a German test that ensures the car can be driven flat out for a considerable period of time without damage.
The chevy V8 was built for Americans plodding around at 65 MPH, so there were engine design issues that weren't easy to overcome, allegedly.
Not sure how they got over this with the Monaro (do they sell it in Germany?) and other LS-engined cars. :-/
That's the urban legend, anyway. Could just be that the bean counters cancelled it, of course.
Kevin
Are the Holdens wider? Wonder if that gives more scope for getting moving air around the engine to assist with cooling?
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I think the issue was that the water channels in the heads were "too small" so it would no tbe helped with outside cooling/more room. They have fitted powerful V8's to smaller engine compartments...
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Are the Holdens wider? Wonder if that gives more scope for getting moving air around the engine to assist with cooling?
I think there's only an inch or two in it. If it were simply a better radiator required it strikes me that they wouldn't have canned the project. Can always fit a more efficient rad. even if space is limited. Not sure an engine loses enough heat to the engine bay for that to be an issue, other than the pipes and wires getting too hot, in which case they just need to be re-routed. A v8 in a Monaro looks much less cramped than a V6 in an Omega due to the much narrower cylinder heads on the pushrod engine.
I suspect it was either a fundamental problem with the engine they'd chosen or a convenient excuse for the bean counters.
Kevin
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[/quote]I suspect it was either a fundamental problem with the engine they'd chosen or a convenient excuse for the bean counters.[/quote]
The bean counters are the real reason I think, remember how was the global economy in that year... But still, they were THAT far with the project; leaflets/brochures printed, TIS updated, production was just to be started etc. Even the bean counters should no thave cancelled the project in that stage, a lot of money was already invested. IF the cooling was the real issue they would have come up with the problem in an earlier stage of the project.
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i think it was the bean counters because all the no limit autobahns never have a steep gradient and surely gm could have geared the car to sit at under 3500 rpm at 220kmh (just a geuss?) which with that speed should be enough airflow in the bay!as most autobahns the speeders generally are at 200-200kmh only the rs audi'S and all the supercars generally go faster than that imo.
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Personally, I think it was cooling, but not to do with the lump itself. Look at the manifolds and the exit of the rear cylinders, it's almost blocked. Exhuast gas leaving the cylinder will have to turn almost 90 degrees again to exit the exhaust port, the flat surface of the squashed manifold required to clear the chassis,or whatever, looks restrictive. Imagine that being blasted with hot exhaust gases on a flat out run, I imagine if held at wot long enough it would melt?
So say that area gets overy hot at best, what's near it? Sub frame? Or steering box? Note there is a pas fluid cooler and another larger oil cooler that is also steering box related.
I reckon there's just not enough space to keep it all from cooking in that area, and the problem lies in the heat reaction of those parts. It works on the Holdens because it's wider.
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convenient excuse for the bean counters.
Kevin
I tend to agree with that.
The economic/environmental climate was beginning to sour around the time that development for the proposal matured to the point where production would have been the next logical step.
There may not have been the up-take for what would have been (necessarily) a volume production run.
This is a shame, as I do like an 8 cylinder car.
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I'm going with cooling rather than bean counters, the Omega already had a huge amount of engines fitted, facelift in particular:
2.0 16v
2.2 16v
2.2 DTi
2.5 DTi
2.5 V6
2.6 V6
3.0 V6
3.2 V6
Cost wise putting another engine in during manufacture? Minimal really...
Cooling issues or as Kevin says serious engine flaw.
Law enforment across Europe would have bought V8 Omega by the truck load....
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But the V8 had it's own parts: steering, brakes, transmission, suspension parts, subframe etc etc so the cost of it was to be alot higher than the other models
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I reckon the writing was already on the wall for the Omega by the time the V8 was cancelled. They had probably already decided that the future was in FWD sh1tboxes so carried on flogging the old formula because investing in bringing a new Omega into production would have made the decision to can it look worse.
Kevin
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imo even if they continued the production , v8 wont give the desired power levels.. would have cooling issues etc etc..
someone who still want a v8 in his/her omega can do it but requires deep pockets to install and run as a daily car.. in that case I would personally prefer a second hand E39 M5 bimmer without any doubt..
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imo even if they continued the production , v8 wont give the desired power levels.. would have cooling issues etc etc..
someone who still want a v8 in his/her omega can do it but requires deep pockets to install and run as a daily car.. in that case I would personally prefer a second hand E39 M5 bimmer without any doubt..
Moderators, ban him! ;D ;D ;D Bimmer is not a Meega! There IS a difference! Shouldn't be compared as alternatives ::) :-X ;D
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imo even if they continued the production , v8 wont give the desired power levels.. would have cooling issues etc etc..
someone who still want a v8 in his/her omega can do it but requires deep pockets to install and run as a daily car.. in that case I would personally prefer a second hand E39 M5 bimmer without any doubt..
Moderators, ban him! ;D ;D ;D Bimmer is not a Meega! There IS a difference! Shouldn't be compared as alternatives ::) :-X ;D
Beemers are obviously for ladyboys, but I would concede that the proper M series ones are acceptable for blokes.
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imo even if they continued the production , v8 wont give the desired power levels.. would have cooling issues etc etc..
someone who still want a v8 in his/her omega can do it but requires deep pockets to install and run as a daily car.. in that case I would personally prefer a second hand E39 M5 bimmer without any doubt..
Moderators, ban him! ;D ;D ;D Bimmer is not a Meega! There IS a difference! Shouldn't be compared as alternatives ::) :-X ;D
Beemers are obviously for ladyboys, but I would concede that the proper M series ones are acceptable for blokes.
...very disappointing!
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imo even if they continued the production , v8 wont give the desired power levels.. would have cooling issues etc etc..
someone who still want a v8 in his/her omega can do it but requires deep pockets to install and run as a daily car.. in that case I would personally prefer a second hand E39 M5 bimmer without any doubt..
Moderators, ban him! ;D ;D ;D Bimmer is not a Meega! There IS a difference! Shouldn't be compared as alternatives ::) :-X ;D
;D ;D ;D
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Well we can't odds the politics...
What about the sum of the parts, vollgafest etc, can't see that being possible in this country and can't see the issue being directly related go the lump on it's own.... Can you?
I mean it's been tuned to give over 1000 hp in some cases....?
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sorry guys I have a different opinion, i thinnk someone realised that gm would be fighting itself with the monaro coming on line
or that it was cheaper to rebadge the holden as a vauxhall and sell it here and in germany, yes the omega v8 had cooling problems at high speed so rather than solve them on the prototype they just stopped and went with the monaro
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sorry guys I have a different opinion, i thinnk someone realised that gm would be fighting itself with the monaro coming on line
or that it was cheaper to rebadge the holden as a vauxhall and sell it here and in germany, yes the omega v8 had cooling problems at high speed so rather than solve them on the prototype they just stopped and went with the monaro
Different, non competing cars. VXR8 would be competitor...
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sorry guys I have a different opinion, i thinnk someone realised that gm would be fighting itself with the monaro coming on line
or that it was cheaper to rebadge the holden as a vauxhall and sell it here and in germany, yes the omega v8 had cooling problems at high speed so rather than solve them on the prototype they just stopped and went with the monaro
Different, non competing cars. VXR8 would be competitor...
ok not got a problem with thatm so it was vxr8 coming out that stoped omega v8 production then ;D
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It is a shame vauxhall stand on Holdens way in the UK market.
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sorry guys I have a different opinion, i thinnk someone realised that gm would be fighting itself with the monaro coming on line
or that it was cheaper to rebadge the holden as a vauxhall and sell it here and in germany, yes the omega v8 had cooling problems at high speed so rather than solve them on the prototype they just stopped and went with the monaro
Different, non competing cars. VXR8 would be competitor...
ok not got a problem with thatm so it was vxr8 coming out that stoped omega v8 production then ;D
VXR8 came much, much later ;)
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sorry guys I have a different opinion, i thinnk someone realised that gm would be fighting itself with the monaro coming on line
or that it was cheaper to rebadge the holden as a vauxhall and sell it here and in germany, yes the omega v8 had cooling problems at high speed so rather than solve them on the prototype they just stopped and went with the monaro
Different, non competing cars. VXR8 would be competitor...
ok not got a problem with thatm so it was vxr8 coming out that stoped omega v8 production then ;D
VXR8 came much, much later ;)
aaaaarrrrrgggghhhhh, thought the monaro was the first one came over here!! ok what im saying is vauxhall decided with the monaro coming they wouldnt bother producing the omega v8!!!
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Nah, don't buy it, there was a problem with the car! If it was political why wait until two weeks before launch to can it?
They must have had the production line built and ready to roll?
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Surely you wouldn't build a production line and get that close to launch without bugfixing a car - after all, last minute changes to the design would be a PITA to retro-fit to a production line?
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Surely you wouldn't build a production line and get that close to launch without bugfixing a car - after all, last minute changes to the design would be a PITA to retro-fit to a production line?
Its potentially possible, if it was going to be a limited number for prestige, that the V8 ones would be hand modified, due to the large number of differences beyond the engine/box/front subframe.
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Surely you wouldn't build a production line and get that close to launch without bugfixing a car - after all, last minute changes to the design would be a PITA to retro-fit to a production line?
Yeah I didn't think that through did I! They already had a production line going, they just had to integrate another model into existing.
Can't have been hard, they had the chassis and engine already, some manifolds, drive train, extra cooling for pas etc.
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Surely you wouldn't build a production line and get that close to launch without bugfixing a car - after all, last minute changes to the design would be a PITA to retro-fit to a production line?
Its potentially possible, if it was going to be a limited number for prestige, that the V8 ones would be hand modified, due to the large number of differences beyond the engine/box/front subframe.
Fair point.. I'd imagine that would also be a very costly process? My money is on the bean counters cancelling it (expensive development & manufacture vs. limited production and few sales - and GM isn't Bugatti) rather than some mechanical problem..
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Surely you wouldn't build a production line and get that close to launch without bugfixing a car - after all, last minute changes to the design would be a PITA to retro-fit to a production line?
Its potentially possible, if it was going to be a limited number for prestige, that the V8 ones would be hand modified, due to the large number of differences beyond the engine/box/front subframe.
Fair point.. I'd imagine that would also be a very costly process? My money is on the bean counters cancelling it (expensive development & manufacture vs. limited production and few sales - and GM isn't Bugatti) rather than some mechanical problem..
Its not uncommon for limited run cars to be hand modified, or for some optional extras (or even standard features!) to be retrofitted at end of line.
For example, no Rover 600 had A/C fitted on the production line, although a significant proportion had 'factory fitted' A/C. They were redirected to a building were a load of blokes retrofitted it to a finished car.
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I'm fairly sure it was to do with internal GM politics.
GM Europe obviously wanted a "flagship" car, but they have convinced themselves that Europeans want quiet, comfortable "grown-up" cars with lots of toys.
Despite the Holden Commodore being available in Australia, I can see Opel developing the Omega V8 as just such a car in the knowledge that it would be much easier to make the car they've got, just with a different engine than to "Lard-ise" a Holden.
Probably got resolved when GM USA stepped in and made a compromise to import the Monaro only.
I certainly don't subscribe to the cooling theory - the only thing wrong with the V6 cooling system is the thermostat operating temperature - and that's done for emissions reasons. The Holden engine bay is massive, but sealed at the bottom, yet the radiator is the same size as the Omega.
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Certainly not the cooling of the cooling system, but the cooling of the rear manifold outlets from the head cant be great? And associated area?
The flat on the rear cylinder "primarys" is telling, and looks restrictive...?
(http://i344.photobucket.com/albums/p326/chrisgixer/12cba9f9.jpg)