Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Car Chat => Topic started by: mowerman on 16 January 2011, 11:38:40
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fuel is as a record high price its time for another blockade
yes or no
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No. This country and its industries are in enough trouble as it is, and the last thing they need is a fuel bockade that will cost multi millions in lost trade!
The Government are trying to sort out the mess made by Labour, and harsh measures must be taken to start to reverse the damage done. Blockades will only aggravate the situation, and may well cause greater financial hardship for many individuals.
The Australians are right about the English; we are a load of moaning poms! ::) ::) ::) ::)
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Yes there should be. The Conservative government have done nothing that they said they would do, and everytime something is mentioned it's always the mess left by Labour. It's a load of shit it's about time they admitted they lied and have done the total opposite of what they said they were going to do.
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Yes there should be. The Conservative government have done nothing that they said they would do, and everytime something is mentioned it's always the mess left by Labour. It's a load of shit it's about time they admitted they lied and have done the total opposite of what they said they were going to do.
well said that man :y
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Yes there should be. The Conservative government have done nothing that they said they would do, and everytime something is mentioned it's always the mess left by Labour. It's a load of shit it's about time they admitted they lied and have done the total opposite of what they said they were going to do.
I could argue that Del as much is going on to resolve many issues, but it will take time for us to see the results, just as the Coalition stated from the outset.
Anyhow, regardsless of what has been done or not, how would a national blockade help, anymore than it did before, with you and many who rely of their vehicles to earn a crust lossing out big time? Everyone suffers, but for what gain? Will world oil prices fall? NO! Can the Government afford to reduce the Fuel Levy? NO! Reduce VAT to 17.5% on fuel? Well, maybe! But it will only be a drop in the ocean in terms of what you and I pay for fuel, and it will soon be reversed once the protests have died! ::) ::) ::)
Oil prices is a WORLD problem and whatever we do in the UK it will make little difference! Oil will continue to rise as exploration costs escalate as the reserves run out over the next 50 years, at most! :'( :'( :'(
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Think Lizzie has it spot on. Need to add it will just give fire extinguisher life threatening tosspots another bite at the cherry.
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Think Lizzie has it spot on. Need to add it will just give fire extinguisher life threatening tosspots another bite at the cherry.
You are right there Cliffo! :y
Bring on Rent-a-Mob eh? ::) ::) :P
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Fuel would be 47p per litre if the government took nothing, and that 47p includes what the garage takes for it's own profit. I need my vehicles to drive around in, I need my vehicles to be able to earn a living and I need my vehicles to be able to do business deals that I need to do. I think it needs a fuel blockade.
The coalition is awful I couldn't have though about a worse possible outcome for this country. The Conservatives in my opinion are terrible, look at what happened before. VAT going up is a disgrace, they think that'll make people spend more, wrong think about it, put the VAT down people will buy more, because stuff is more affordable, thus creating less debt for the country, people will stop buying things as the price is going up simply because they can't afford it.
Now if anyone can justify to me what justifies an 81 pence tax on fuel then I'm all ears. There are two taxes on fuel too, why? Because it's simply another money making scheme. I'm sorry but they talk utter bullshit with regard to everything they said they were going to do, and why? Well it's still Labours fault in the end, I think it's about time at least one person in this shit hole we call our country held their hands up and admitted, yes we've caused this, but no they're doing what a lot of other British people do and passing the blame to someone else!
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Fuel would be 47p per litre if the government took nothing, and that 47p includes what the garage takes for it's own profit. I need my vehicles to drive around in, I need my vehicles to be able to earn a living and I need my vehicles to be able to do business deals that I need to do. I think it needs a fuel blockade.
The coalition is awful I couldn't have though about a worse possible outcome for this country. The Conservatives in my opinion are terrible, look at what happened before. VAT going up is a disgrace, they think that'll make people spend more, wrong think about it, put the VAT down people will buy more, because stuff is more affordable, thus creating less debt for the country, people will stop buying things as the price is going up simply because they can't afford it.
Now if anyone can justify to me what justifies an 81 pence tax on fuel then I'm all ears. There are two taxes on fuel too, why? Because it's simply another money making scheme. I'm sorry but they talk utter bullshit with regard to everything they said they were going to do, and why? Well it's still Labours fault in the end, I think it's about time at least one person in this shit hole we call our country held their hands up and admitted, yes we've caused this, but no they're doing what a lot of other British people do and passing the blame to someone else!
For the Government to pay for the running of the country; NHS, Defence, Education, Social Services, Policing, etc. No income = No services. The Government has no money of its own, it is our money which they spread out to give us what the consensus of the public want, so any "money making" scheme is for our benefit overall.
Sorry Del but if the UK government didn't tax fuel at the rate they do then to balance the books (which the previous Labour Government did not do!) tax and VAT would be gathered from other sources, like placing VAT on food, childrens clothes, and perhaps increasing the tax on electronic products for instance. Apart from that they could cut even more than they intend to already from public expenditure, like abolishing the NHS and making it into the American system, or charging parents for the education of their children, and of course making our military into no more than a basic defence force! Do you fancy any of that?
The fact is discussing fuel prices, and potential blockade action, on a car forum, is like discussing tobacco taxes on a smokers forum, or alcohol tax on a pub forum, no one likes paying for their enjoyments or advantages!
The country needs money to run at the standards we all (well most) want. Apart from the air we breath, nothing is actually free, and oil is just going to get a lot more expensive one way or another, and the costs of running UK plc are also going to rise. The rest of the world is under the same pressures, and it will get worse all the time the labour forces of the developing countries, and our own, want (rightly) a greater reward for their efforts, as they have throughout history, hence the word inflation!! ::) ::) ::)
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Yes there should be. The Conservative government have done nothing that they said they would do, and everytime something is mentioned it's always the mess left by Labour. It's a load of shit it's about time they admitted they lied and have done the total opposite of what they said they were going to do.
Agree totally, Labour made mistakes of course but I dread to think what further mess we would be in under these eejits!
No, no blockade. Last I heard the tanker drivers are due to o on strike soon anyway.
Need to do something though.
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Be it Conservative, Labour or whom ever. Not one of them will reduce the taxation on fuel.
I (as most others) hate paying high fuel prices, but i do something about it (unlike most others), i did 12 miles in my car last week, i could drive to work, but i decide to walk & cycle.
I know there's many people that have no choice, but drive.
If they want us to get on public transport, then they HAVE to provide a better service at a more affordable price. Unfortunatley as with ALL governments they have their heads up their arses & they have no idea of the real world.
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Fuel has got nothing to do with the NHS, schools, my mum, the dogs cats or anything like that. It's fact that Conservatives have done nothing that they said they would. Saying the fuel prices must go up because of things like the NHS, is a but like saying well the price of a car must go up because they're building a new cycle path, it doesn't add up. Nothing absolutely nothing justifies an 81p tax which they're getting on every litre from every single motorist in this country.
VAT is another thing, it's original idea was to be put on luxury items, now I don't know anyone that classes bread as a luxury. Road tax, that's £405 per year on my M3, £215 on my 525i both of which have had to be fixed out of my own pocket which I'm taxed on, because the road tax we pay isn't used for the roads like it's supposed to be. Now those cars cost me a lot to fix, a lot, yet if I don't pay the tax I'll be fined. Fair?
Costs me a lot to run my cars because of the fuel, now I pay tax national insurance and whatever else for things like the NHS, police etc etc. Now the Police who arrested my son for something he didn't do, wasted my time, my money and my fuel to go and collect my son. Fair? The police who we pau taxes for waste money on putting the wrong fuel in their cars, costing us money to fix something that isn't even ours, fair?
I could go on and on about this, but it's about time someone stood up and said something, and there comes my typical British attitude, it's about time 'someone', it's always 'someone' elses job, this someone will never make a difference, because whatever the government say that is what goes on. But I don't expect to pay 81p per litre of fuel for the NHS, I and many other pay enough tax for my businesses, my job, and I also pay national insurance, as I said I pay enough out of what I earn for things like the NHS, and the Police.
They've lied, done nothing they said they would, done pretty much everything they said they wouldn't do, but yet again that is 'someone' elses fault. Really is it? Or is it the fact they just wanted to get into power and then rip the piss out of 70% of the British population? And I'll say it yet again the NHS and Police do not justify fuel prices, that is total nonsene!
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Maybe someone can answer the question of if the duty & tax on fuel doesn't pay for the NHS etc, then what is used on??
I for one think that RFL, fuel duty, income tax, VAT & so on are used for whatever they want to use them on.
I don't believe a word of what any of the MP's say. I don't trust any of them.
Unfortunatley the only thing we can do is bend over & be shafted, wake up everyone & realize that no matter what we do or what we say they won't take any notice.
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no, the problem is not with the price of fuel, but the amount of tax
the tax on fuel, like a lot of other tax we pay, apart from going to good causes like paying for our health services and such, its used to provide parliament with cars they get to use for free, their flights all over the world for no good reason, it's used to pay for their second homes, it's used to pay for all the other unnecessary stuff they waste it on instead of using their own income like the rest of us do
>:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
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Fuel has got nothing to do with the NHS, schools, my mum, the dogs cats or anything like that. It's fact that Conservatives have done nothing that they said they would. Saying the fuel prices must go up because of things like the NHS, is a but like saying well the price of a car must go up because they're building a new cycle path, it doesn't add up. Nothing absolutely nothing justifies an 81p tax which they're getting on every litre from every single motorist in this country.
VAT is another thing, it's original idea was to be put on luxury items, now I don't know anyone that classes bread as a luxury. Road tax, that's £405 per year on my M3, £215 on my 525i both of which have had to be fixed out of my own pocket which I'm taxed on, because the road tax we pay isn't used for the roads like it's supposed to be. Now those cars cost me a lot to fix, a lot, yet if I don't pay the tax I'll be fined. Fair?
Costs me a lot to run my cars because of the fuel, now I pay tax national insurance and whatever else for things like the NHS, police etc etc. Now the Police who arrested my son for something he didn't do, wasted my time, my money and my fuel to go and collect my son. Fair? The police who we pau taxes for waste money on putting the wrong fuel in their cars, costing us money to fix something that isn't even ours, fair?
I could go on and on about this, but it's about time someone stood up and said something, and there comes my typical British attitude, it's about time 'someone', it's always 'someone' elses job, this someone will never make a difference, because whatever the government say that is what goes on. But I don't expect to pay 81p per litre of fuel for the NHS, I and many other pay enough tax for my businesses, my job, and I also pay national insurance, as I said I pay enough out of what I earn for things like the NHS, and the Police.
They've lied, done nothing they said they would, done pretty much everything they said they wouldn't do, but yet again that is 'someone' elses fault. Really is it? Or is it the fact they just wanted to get into power and then rip the piss out of 70% of the British population? And I'll say it yet again the NHS and Police do not justify fuel prices, that is total nonsene!
But TAX does Del, and I'm afraid we all have to pay it to keep the country running ;) ;) Tax on fuel, your car parts, the bottle of drink you buy, and large flat-screen TV all have the same in common; running the country. To repeat, No TAX Income = No UK services! It is not "nonsense" that the tax on all things, including petrol, pays for our services!
As for Bread Del, there is no tax on it or any other pure food product. These are NOT luxury items so attract no VAT, but a Mars Bar, tub of ice cream, or bottle of beer is considered quite properly a luxury item. Children's clothes, newspapers, magazines and books are also zero VAT rated, as they are also considered a necessity, not a luxury. So you see Del the difference between necessity or luxury product is fully taken into account!
I am afraid you are one of many who wish everything to be virtually free and blame the resident government for all things bad, but as I stated in my other post nothing is free, no more than your professional rate ;) ;)
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all we are doing is linning the pockets of the oil companies and bosses so the can have their aircraft and posh houses
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Fuel has got nothing to do with the NHS, schools, my mum, the dogs cats or anything like that. It's fact that Conservatives have done nothing that they said they would. Saying the fuel prices must go up because of things like the NHS, is a but like saying well the price of a car must go up because they're building a new cycle path, it doesn't add up. Nothing absolutely nothing justifies an 81p tax which they're getting on every litre from every single motorist in this country.
VAT is another thing, it's original idea was to be put on luxury items, now I don't know anyone that classes bread as a luxury. Road tax, that's £405 per year on my M3, £215 on my 525i both of which have had to be fixed out of my own pocket which I'm taxed on, because the road tax we pay isn't used for the roads like it's supposed to be. Now those cars cost me a lot to fix, a lot, yet if I don't pay the tax I'll be fined. Fair?
Costs me a lot to run my cars because of the fuel, now I pay tax national insurance and whatever else for things like the NHS, police etc etc. Now the Police who arrested my son for something he didn't do, wasted my time, my money and my fuel to go and collect my son. Fair? The police who we pau taxes for waste money on putting the wrong fuel in their cars, costing us money to fix something that isn't even ours, fair?
I could go on and on about this, but it's about time someone stood up and said something, and there comes my typical British attitude, it's about time 'someone', it's always 'someone' elses job, this someone will never make a difference, because whatever the government say that is what goes on. But I don't expect to pay 81p per litre of fuel for the NHS, I and many other pay enough tax for my businesses, my job, and I also pay national insurance, as I said I pay enough out of what I earn for things like the NHS, and the Police.
They've lied, done nothing they said they would, done pretty much everything they said they wouldn't do, but yet again that is 'someone' elses fault. Really is it? Or is it the fact they just wanted to get into power and then rip the piss out of 70% of the British population? And I'll say it yet again the NHS and Police do not justify fuel prices, that is total nonsene!
But TAX does Del, and I'm afraid we all have to pay it to keep the country running ;) ;) Tax on fuel, your car parts, the bottle of drink you buy, and large flat-screen TV all have the same in common; running the country. To repeat, No TAX Income = No UK services! It is not "nonsense" that the tax on all things, including petrol, pays for our services!
As for Bread Del, there is no tax on it or any other pure food product. These are NOT luxury items so attract no VAT, but a Mars Bar, tub of ice cream, or bottle of beer is considered quite properly a luxury item. Children's clothes, newspapers, magazines and books are also zero VAT rated, as they are also considered a necessity, not a luxury. So you see Del the difference between necessity or luxury product is fully taken into account!
I am afraid you are one of many who wish everything to be virtually free and blame the resident government for all things bad, but as I stated in my other post nothing is free, no more than your professional rate ;) ;)
No VAT isn't on bread, but it hasn't stopped anyone whacking 10 pence on the price of bread, which ever way you look at it, it's on everything! Now I don't expect anything for free, what I do expect though is I pay my tax and national insurance, now if I wanted it for free, surely I wouldn't bother would I? What about the road tax then? Is there an argument for that? Another thing I'd like to show people some accounts on the amount of tax I pay and then we'll see if we think I want everything for free. I for one stand up and have no problem paying tax for services such as the NHS, Police, fire and whatever else. Lizzie there still has been no not even a slight justification of why there is an 81 pence tax on the fuel after the garage has taken it's profit out. Why is that? Because there isn't one.
Fuel tax is not for the NHS and other service that I'm sorry is fact. No more than my professional rate :-? So my professional rate if you're talking about Taxi's? Which is decided by the council, not by the taxi firm, the council whose funds are in a roundabout way going to?
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all we are doing is linning the pockets of the oil companies and bosses so the can have their aircraft and posh houses
This is what I'm saying though fuel would be 47p after the garage has taken out it's own profit, 81p sits in the Governments pockets.
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the poll has a lot of interest will tell you the result in 5 days
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Fuel tax is not for the NHS and other service that I'm sorry is fact. No more than my professional rate :-? So my professional rate if you're talking about Taxi's? Which is decided by the council, not by the taxi firm, the council whose funds are in a roundabout way going to?
Great, can you tell me what it is spent on, then - a link to an external source, with a breakdown of income & expenditure of fuel duty?
I genuinely don't know and would like to.
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Fuel tax is general revenue for the government, it's not used for the NHS or police or fire, they'd like you to think it was, and Lizzie seems and a few others do, seem to think I'm talking utter bullshit, but it's not, they spend it on what they like. There is VAT on the fuel and then there is VAT on the fuel duty at 20%.
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Fuel has got nothing to do with the NHS, schools, my mum, the dogs cats or anything like that. It's fact that Conservatives have done nothing that they said they would. Saying the fuel prices must go up because of things like the NHS, is a but like saying well the price of a car must go up because they're building a new cycle path, it doesn't add up. Nothing absolutely nothing justifies an 81p tax which they're getting on every litre from every single motorist in this country.
VAT is another thing, it's original idea was to be put on luxury items, now I don't know anyone that classes bread as a luxury. Road tax, that's £405 per year on my M3, £215 on my 525i both of which have had to be fixed out of my own pocket which I'm taxed on, because the road tax we pay isn't used for the roads like it's supposed to be. Now those cars cost me a lot to fix, a lot, yet if I don't pay the tax I'll be fined. Fair?
Costs me a lot to run my cars because of the fuel, now I pay tax national insurance and whatever else for things like the NHS, police etc etc. Now the Police who arrested my son for something he didn't do, wasted my time, my money and my fuel to go and collect my son. Fair? The police who we pau taxes for waste money on putting the wrong fuel in their cars, costing us money to fix something that isn't even ours, fair?
I could go on and on about this, but it's about time someone stood up and said something, and there comes my typical British attitude, it's about time 'someone', it's always 'someone' elses job, this someone will never make a difference, because whatever the government say that is what goes on. But I don't expect to pay 81p per litre of fuel for the NHS, I and many other pay enough tax for my businesses, my job, and I also pay national insurance, as I said I pay enough out of what I earn for things like the NHS, and the Police.
They've lied, done nothing they said they would, done pretty much everything they said they wouldn't do, but yet again that is 'someone' elses fault. Really is it? Or is it the fact they just wanted to get into power and then rip the piss out of 70% of the British population? And I'll say it yet again the NHS and Police do not justify fuel prices, that is total nonsene!
But TAX does Del, and I'm afraid we all have to pay it to keep the country running ;) ;) Tax on fuel, your car parts, the bottle of drink you buy, and large flat-screen TV all have the same in common; running the country. To repeat, No TAX Income = No UK services! It is not "nonsense" that the tax on all things, including petrol, pays for our services!
As for Bread Del, there is no tax on it or any other pure food product. These are NOT luxury items so attract no VAT, but a Mars Bar, tub of ice cream, or bottle of beer is considered quite properly a luxury item. Children's clothes, newspapers, magazines and books are also zero VAT rated, as they are also considered a necessity, not a luxury. So you see Del the difference between necessity or luxury product is fully taken into account!
I am afraid you are one of many who wish everything to be virtually free and blame the resident government for all things bad, but as I stated in my other post nothing is free, no more than your professional rate ;) ;)
No VAT isn't on bread, but it hasn't stopped anyone whacking 10 pence on the price of bread, which ever way you look at it, it's on everything! Now I don't expect anything for free, what I do expect though is I pay my tax and national insurance, now if I wanted it for free, surely I wouldn't bother would I? What about the road tax then? Is there an argument for that? Another thing I'd like to show people some accounts on the amount of tax I pay and then we'll see if we think I want everything for free. I for one stand up and have no problem paying tax for services such as the NHS, Police, fire and whatever else. Lizzie there still has been no not even a slight justification of why there is an 81 pence tax on the fuel after the garage has taken it's profit out. Why is that? Because there isn't one.
Fuel tax is not for the NHS and other service that I'm sorry is fact. No more than my professional rate :-? So my professional rate if you're talking about Taxi's? Which is decided by the council, not by the taxi firm, the council whose funds are in a roundabout way going to?
First about the bread price, and "whacking 10 pence" on it; well that is down to a WORLD shortage of cereal, due to natural disasters, bad harvests, and Russia (a major producer) banning wheat, barley and rye exports. As these ingredients feature in many of our food products and yes, that 10p will be going on everything :'( :'( The Governments fault? Well, no! It is due to a WORLD event, and from what I see around us it can only get worse!
As for the justification and my explanation as to why there should be an 81p fuel tax, well I think I have repeatedly explained enough that the total income goes with the rest of the taxes to pay for the running of our country. Taxes have done that for centuries, but way back in history believe me when I say it was once far worse for the peasants in terms of low wages, high cereal prices, and robbing Lords, Ladies, church leaders and of course, Monarchs taking more than their 'fair' share leaving the peasants in poverty that we cannot imagine today!
Be grateful you live in the 21st century with all its flaws! 8-) 8-) 8-) :D :D ;)
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high fuel prices = high prices in the shops = more unsold items wasted food etc
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high fuel prices = high prices in the shops = more unsold items wasted food etc
But the reality is that throughout my life I have seen inflation and fuel prices push up the costs, so that a bag of crisps that used to cost 3d, now is about 40p, and a loaf of bread go from approximately 1/- to £1.20. Has that meant a drop in consumption over those years? From the lean, fit and car, fridge, tv, washing machine, central heating and fitted carpet free days of the mid-1950s, we have arrived at owning everything mentioned, and more, plus eating like we have never eat before!
Drop in consumption due to rising prices? I will believe it when I see it, although I do believe world consuption of many items will drop due to many reasons, not least a failure to produce enough food. ;) ;)
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20p on the price of loo roll then, why? So there is an 81p tax on a litre of fuel so the country keeps running? Ok then debate over, but it still doesn't answer my question :-/ :-/ Because the country has been in worse states than it is now and we haven't needed an 81 pence tax on fuel. They look at what is used the most then they put the price up. Diesel for example used to be much cheaper than petrol, now they see more people buying diesel, the price goes up. LPG used to be about 40p a litre which is around what petrol should be, but for the taxes but anyway, now LPG is at near on 80p a litre at some places, again why? Because they see more people using it and the price goes up. It's got nothing to do with the fact that the country will stop running of they don't clearly overcharge for fuel.
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Lizzie is of course quite right - No Tax = No Income.
So lets tax all the higher earners who currently do not pay their share at a fair rate and prevent the use of tax avoidance schemes and then VAT would not need to be so high, petrol fuel duty could be lower etc. It is a disgrace that the rich in this country (along with the bankers!!)do not pay their fair share now or in the past. The top rate of tax for those earning over 150k should be raised to at least 60p or higher, bank profits and bonuses should be squeezed until the pips squeak along with the threat of nationalisation without compensation if they do not comply fully and start lending to businesses again. This along with a severe crackdown on non dom tax status and avoidance would allow the rate of VAT to stay at 17.5%. And Lizzie lets not hear the old Thatcherite argument that this would stifle business entrepreneurs. It is the capitalist system that has got us into this mess with a global bank crisis so it is now time to replace it with a more socialist approach to benefit all in society, not just the better off as this bunch of hypocritical tory morons and their accolytes want.
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20p on the price of loo roll then, why?
I don't know what loo rolls you're buying, but I paid £4.49 in November for 9 rolls of Andrex, and now? It's £4.49.
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Of course I do understand that we need to pay tax, yes that is fair, but then I could go into people who come over here and sit on benefits, but I won't. Lizzie is right no tax no income, exactly correct, but the tax doesn't need to be so high for the everyday person.
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Of course I do understand that we need to pay tax, yes that is fair, but then I could go into people who come over here and sit on benefits, but I won't. Lizzie is right no tax no income, exactly correct, but the tax doesn't need to be so high for the everyday person.
Yes, I would love that too Del :y :y :y
The trouble is the percentage of the "very rich" is a tiny percentage of us all as a nation. Where do you draw a line on who is "rich"? Do you say anyone earning more than £60,000 PA, £100K PA, £150K PA, or £1 million per year?
For us general poorer folk to pay less tax, we need the minority of "rich" people to virtually surrender all their income to the state; say 95p in the £1. Then what happens? Who of the "rich" will want to contribute to this country's economy, lead its commercial sector, or even live here?! We have seen that situation before, in the 1970s if I remember correctly, and the UK lost out. The ones with the ability must have a reasonable incentive to work damned hard.
Once more the Government has no money of its own, no very large pot of gold, just our taxes to pay for all. Where it comes from is ALWAYS the big question, and always will be!! ::) ::) :D :D ;)
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Wow interesting debate. I understand the need to raise taxes but the tax on fuel does now seem excessive. I think the goverment needs to look at more creative ways to raise revenue. Rather than use the same tired business model of hammering the motorist. Even those that are happy to pay 81p per litre tax must have a price when they will say enough is enough.
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Wow interesting debate. I understand the need to raise taxes but the tax on fuel does now seem excessive. I think the goverment needs to look at more creative ways to raise revenue. Rather than use the same tired business model of hammering the motorist. Even those that are happy to pay 81p per litre tax must have a price when they will say enough is enough.
Couldn't have worded it better myself, nicely put :y :y
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Wow interesting debate. I understand the need to raise taxes but the tax on fuel does now seem excessive. I think the goverment needs to look at more creative ways to raise revenue. Rather than use the same tired business model of hammering the motorist. Even those that are happy to pay 81p per litre tax must have a price when they will say enough is enough.
I can agree with that :y :y :y
However, whenever the government of any colour try to raise taxes on other things they get lambasted! To raise enough to cover the significant loss of fuel tax the government would have to tax a major product / service or 'something' else big time!
Personally I would love tax to be trebled on supermarket booze, trebled on tobacco products, quadrupled on gambling, 50% tax on all 'fast food', and after making 'A' class drugs legal, place 200% tax on them with them only being available from the doctors surgeries!
Now do you think that would get me elected? Nope, didn't think so!! ::) ::) ::) ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;)
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Alright, so lets figure out just how much tax you need to find from alternative means if you remove just fuel duty - ignoring VAT on fuel (which would also fall) because I can't be bothered to do that much maths.
According to the Health Protection Agency [1] (http://www.hpa.org.uk/web/HPAwebFile/HPAweb_C/1194947327894), 26 thousand million litres of petrol were bought in 2005. I assume that will have increased significantly by now, but that's the latest figure I could find.
That's 26000000000 litres.
According to PetrolPrices.com, 58.95p of the petrol price is duty [2] (http://www.petrolprices.com/price-of-petrol.html). That works out to £15327000000.
That's over £15billion.
So .. any ideas how we raise that kind of money?
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Personally I would love tax to be trebled on supermarket booze, trebled on tobacco products, quadrupled on gambling, 50% tax on all 'fast food', and after making 'A' class drugs legal, place 200% tax on them with them only being available from the doctors surgeries!
Well, I'd vote for you ;) All sound ideas, IMHO, but all would be enormously unpopular with various demographics.. heck, drinkers would be outraged, smokers would be up in arms, the anti-drugs brigade would go into melt-down, etc etc. ;D
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Personally I would love tax to be trebled on supermarket booze, trebled on tobacco products, quadrupled on gambling, 50% tax on all 'fast food', and after making 'A' class drugs legal, place 200% tax on them with them only being available from the doctors surgeries!
Well, I'd vote for you ;) All sound ideas, IMHO, but all would be enormously unpopular with various demographics.. heck, drinkers would be outraged, smokers would be up in arms, the anti-drugs brigade would go into melt-down, etc etc. ;D
Yep Aaron, that is what I thought! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;)
PS I am impressed with your maths at this time on a Sunday afternoon! :y :y :D :D
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the problem is this govement is doing to much to fast
also the could cut costs by just having one income tax instead of 2 we have now with N/I it all goes into the same pot
any way back to the topic the last blockade braught prices down.
The worst effected are the lorry drivers without them this country will come to a standstill
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No point, nothing will change
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That's an excellent point, if fuel keeps going up, lorry drivers will be stuffed, that will bring the country to a standstill. I think a £1 per litre cap should be put on fuel, the government are then still getting a healthy cut (still I think it'll be too much) but then I don't think anyone would have a problem. I mean fuel is due to rise again soon.
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Alright, so lets figure out just how much tax you need to find from alternative means if you remove just fuel duty - ignoring VAT on fuel (which would also fall) because I can't be bothered to do that much maths.
According to the Health Protection Agency [1] (http://www.hpa.org.uk/web/HPAwebFile/HPAweb_C/1194947327894), 26 thousand million litres of petrol were bought in 2005. I assume that will have increased significantly by now, but that's the latest figure I could find.
That's 26000000000 litres.
According to PetrolPrices.com, 58.95p of the petrol price is duty [2] (http://www.petrolprices.com/price-of-petrol.html). That works out to £15327000000.
That's over £15billion.
So .. any ideas how we raise that kind of money?
Yep - Tax the bankers and the rich, raise National Insurance for both employers and employees, cut overseas aid, scrap child benefit for those earning over 50k, have stringent anti tax dodging legislation, increase corporation tax.
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Alright, so lets figure out just how much tax you need to find from alternative means if you remove just fuel duty - ignoring VAT on fuel (which would also fall) because I can't be bothered to do that much maths.
According to the Health Protection Agency [1] (http://www.hpa.org.uk/web/HPAwebFile/HPAweb_C/1194947327894), 26 thousand million litres of petrol were bought in 2005. I assume that will have increased significantly by now, but that's the latest figure I could find.
That's 26000000000 litres.
According to PetrolPrices.com, 58.95p of the petrol price is duty [2] (http://www.petrolprices.com/price-of-petrol.html). That works out to £15327000000.
That's over £15billion.
So .. any ideas how we raise that kind of money?
Yep - Tax the bankers and the rich, raise National Insurance for both employers and employees, cut overseas aid, scrap child benefit for those earning over 50k, have stringent anti tax dodging legislation, increase corporation tax.
Ban the bomb, stop pay rises, bring back hanging, ;D ;D ;D ;D
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How much extra money would this country have if we didn't keep throwing money at other countries?
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How much extra money would this country have if we didn't keep throwing money at other countries?
None, its all gone, its right what they say (Whoever they are, never found that one out) charity begins at home.
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we give all that moniey to the EU in return they give us sill rules Tacko rules eg
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Ultimately the concept of a fuel blockade would only cause disruption. The actual loss of profits would be minor as the panic buy before any protest happens and the replenishment afterwards would level most of the losses...
I do feel that there is far too much revenue on fuel costs, but, I also feel that there is too much profit made by the oil companies. Current oil prices are 2/3 of the level they were previously when the fuel prices are at the current level and the increased duty on these wouldn't account for the additional costs to bring it to this level...
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Its a simple fact, the government needs just shy of another £3k tax from everyone in the UK just to plug the deficit (not the debt - thats far higher).
Remember, some of these will be children, so cannot pay anything, some are pensioners, so limited scope there, and a significant proportion are the lame and the lazy who will never pay anything, you're probably looking at Mr Average having to pay around £5-6k more tax every year.
That is the mess that the failed New Labour project left us all with >:(. Do I think the coalition are doing enough? No. But they are not the worse case scenario, that would have been another term of New Labour. Remember New Labour's manifesto was to cut the deficit by £15bn in 4yrs (so only annually spending by around £160bn within 4yrs). Tory/Libdems is better - get the annual deficit down to £135bn a year in 5yrs. Even this is nowhere near enough. We simply cannot just keep borrowing and borrowing.
So, even before we demand a reduction in fuel duty, we have to pay more tax first. Its sad. Its frustrating. Its painful. Its unfair. But its the punishment we have to have for the catostrophic waste of money spent by the previous government.
Some parties, Labour and the (old school) Libdems in particular, say just tax the rich. Whilst thats a fantastic soundbite, at a practical level it falls over, as we simply don't have enough rich people!
So while I don't like it, I understand the need for it.
Something else I won't like, but think we desperately need is Greek style measures - higher taxes, and cut all but essential services. It we don't stop the deficit promptly, and then start paying off the national debt, then all our taxes will cover no more than servicing the debt.
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And I fully expect that we will be very used to paying £1.50 per litre by the summer.
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Its a simple fact, the government needs just shy of another £3k tax from everyone in the UK just to plug the deficit (not the debt - thats far higher).
Remember, some of these will be children, so cannot pay anything, some are pensioners, so limited scope there, and a significant proportion are the lame and the lazy who will never pay anything, you're probably looking at Mr Average having to pay around £5-6k more tax every year.
That is the mess that the failed New Labour project left us all with >:(. Do I think the coalition are doing enough? No. But they are not the worse case scenario, that would have been another term of New Labour. Remember New Labour's manifesto was to cut the deficit by £15bn in 4yrs (so only annually spending by around £160bn within 4yrs). Tory/Libdems is better - get the annual deficit down to £135bn a year in 5yrs. Even this is nowhere near enough. We simply cannot just keep borrowing and borrowing.
So, even before we demand a reduction in fuel duty, we have to pay more tax first. Its sad. Its frustrating. Its painful. Its unfair. But its the punishment we have to have for the catostrophic waste of money spent by the previous government.
Some parties, Labour and the (old school) Libdems in particular, say just tax the rich. Whilst thats a fantastic soundbite, at a practical level it falls over, as we simply don't have enough rich people!
So while I don't like it, I understand the need for it.
Something else I won't like, but think we desperately need is Greek style measures - higher taxes, and cut all but essential services. It we don't stop the deficit promptly, and then start paying off the national debt, then all our taxes will cover no more than servicing the debt.
The Boy for World Dictator :y
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got the dreaded white page here so dont know if this will
get through to the forum,
my thoughts on this ?
lets put it in terms most of us can understand the tax on fuel is over twice the wholesale price which is plainly ridiculous!!
thats like saying yes mate £100 pounds to put a windscreen in your car, here is the bill for £300
when you have paid it we will fit it,
What?????
sorry mate we have to pay overheads you see if you can find it cheaper elsewhere please go there,
now we have no choice but to pay for fuel but its the life blood of the country the whole economy was built around use of the motor vehicle, thats why we have large shopping malls out of town so people could o there instead
of the local high street, thats why commuting came into its own because people could drive 30 or 40 miles to work in a different area where thier skills were needed,
thats why tesco and the others have so many shops all over the place because the vehicles could deliver there at reasonable cost and they could price thier goods cheaper than the high street, its why we can have service engineers travelling all over the country because they have use of a vehicle, in short nothing can be done without fuel, if the price keeps going up then all this will come crashing down, when it does whats the government going to do then? if people cant get to work then they dont get tax,and go on the dole, if people can get to work with cheaper fuel then they can do overtime etc and still commute ,ergo more productivity more tax,
put simply the only way to show the government they have it wrong would be for all car drivers to not buy fuel for a period of around 10days, the drop in tax and the lack of cashflow,owing to the high price would soon bring a tax reduction, the tankers at sea would have nowere to unload because the onshore tanks would be full, the stations would be sat there paying wages and electricity on empty forecourts, thier tanker delivery fleets would be sat idle, thier cash flow would be interupted, dont let anyone tell you the oil comapnys have no pull with the government they certainly do,
A blockade wouldnt work because the police would simply escort the tankers to get through to delivery points, and less than 1 percent of people would actually get up and show thier support for it however if no one bought fuel
for the siad ten days watch what would happen!!
jm2pw
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No. This country and its industries are in enough trouble as it is, and the last thing they need is a fuel bockade that will cost multi millions in lost trade!
The Government are trying to sort out the mess made by Labour, and harsh measures must be taken to start to reverse the damage done. Blockades will only aggravate the situation, and may well cause greater financial hardship for many individuals.
The Australians are right about the English; we are a load of moaning poms! ::) ::) ::) ::)
Maybe the threat of a national strike along with a blockade for a day would wake up the robbing gitsCameron and his eegits.Petrol and diesel should be capped at £1.00 a litre
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Yes .... time to show we have had enough .... :y
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The UK, the European Union and the US want a good dose of inflation
to reduce the value of their debts. With inflation, the arithmetic value
placed on the debt remains the same but the actual value of the
debt reduces as the buying power and thus the value of the
underlying Fiat paper currency reduces.
This is why King,Trichet and Bernanke, at the behest of their
political masters, are desperately trying to keep interest
rates low for as long as possible. They've even changed
how they calculate inflation so that they can report it
below the actual rate of inflation. :)
This way they can kickstart some inflation off.
Can you remember when you bought your house in the
early '70's for circa £3000? Seemed a lot then, didn't it?
Fast forward to the '80's and it didn't seem so much
when you were buying at circa £50,000 and on to
the '00's when you're paying circa £165,000.
Everyone is still affording a percentage of their income,
but wages and prices have gone up so that it seems
roughly the same. That's the power of inflation for you.
The treasury is being quite astute here with the Fuel Duty
and VAT increases. The higher fuel prices will be passed on
by the hauliers and then by the shops to the consumers.
The price of goods go up and the treasury gets another
bonus as their VAT take goes up on the higher prices
of the goods.
Eventually, lagging behind, wages go up which cements
the inflation into the economy and thus reduces the value
of the national debt.
Meanwhile the value of your savings, in the Fiat paper
currency, have eroded away.
So will a fuel protest work?
Not on your nelly! There's too much to lose in the grand
scheme of things.
Have a nice day. :y
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got the dreaded white page here so dont know if this will
get through to the forum,
my thoughts on this ?
lets put it in terms most of us can understand the tax on fuel is over twice the wholesale price which is plainly ridiculous!!
thats like saying yes mate £100 pounds to put a windscreen in your car, here is the bill for £300
when you have paid it we will fit it,
What?????
sorry mate we have to pay overheads you see if you can find it cheaper elsewhere please go there,
now we have no choice but to pay for fuel but its the life blood of the country the whole economy was built around use of the motor vehicle, thats why we have large shopping malls out of town so people could o there instead
of the local high street, thats why commuting came into its own because people could drive 30 or 40 miles to work in a different area where thier skills were needed,
thats why tesco and the others have so many shops all over the place because the vehicles could deliver there at reasonable cost and they could price thier goods cheaper than the high street, its why we can have service engineers travelling all over the country because they have use of a vehicle, in short nothing can be done without fuel, if the price keeps going up then all this will come crashing down, when it does whats the government going to do then? if people cant get to work then they dont get tax,and go on the dole, if people can get to work with cheaper fuel then they can do overtime etc and still commute ,ergo more productivity more tax,
put simply the only way to show the government they have it wrong would be for all car drivers to not buy fuel for a period of around 10days, the drop in tax and the lack of cashflow,owing to the high price would soon bring a tax reduction, the tankers at sea would have nowere to unload because the onshore tanks would be full, the stations would be sat there paying wages and electricity on empty forecourts, thier tanker delivery fleets would be sat idle, thier cash flow would be interupted, dont let anyone tell you the oil comapnys have no pull with the government they certainly do,
A blockade wouldnt work because the police would simply escort the tankers to get through to delivery points, and less than 1 percent of people would actually get up and show thier support for it however if no one bought fuel
for the siad ten days watch what would happen!!
jm2pw
I understand what you are saying O, but to start with it was the railways that made commuting popular/necessary, so workers of all skills could travel to where they where required. The railways still carryout this function, especially in the crowded south and south-east parts of the country, but now spreading out much further from London and the Home Counties. What we should hope for is more workers travel by train, and therefore we need to greatly expand the network. This will cost a huge amount of money to get it right, and the passengers, plus frieght traffic will have to help pay for it, along with the private companies.
Allowing so many 'out of town' shopping centres was, frankly, a mistake, and has just ruined many a town and city centre, with encouragement and necessity given to the use of the car. These centres, now built, should be properly linked by railways, or tram ways, to further reduce the need for car travel. Far more frieght being moved by the railways should also be an aim to remove thousands of lorries from our roads, leaving just local delivery trucks running out from central rail linked warehouses (like it used to be, but for 'loose' frieght.
I know what I am saying will not be popular on here, but how long do you think we can keep clogging our roads and using vastly reduced oil stocks?
The fact is 'O', as I have repeatedly stated in this thread, is that the government has to raise taxes from a whole variety of sources, including on fuel, to pay for our requirements, plus hopefully helping to develop the railway / public transport schemes I suggest. The percentage of tax on fuel may seem unfair, but what tax is considered "fair"? This country must pay its way!
Finally repeating what I have also said before in this thread, I have seen prices / inflation have its effect from the 1950s, with the cost of petrol always a discussion point along with dire warnings of our economy collapsing! It never has, and we all grow to accept the extra costs as we do an increase in wages, apart from the periods when they have been 'frozen'! More and more people will keep on buying and using motor vehicles until the cows come home, or oil runs out, with a greatly improved transport system providing alternatives. In 50 years time the motor cars with internal combustion engines we know today will be gone. That will be considered progress by then, and people will wonder why we in 2011 acted like dinosaurs and could not accept the inevitable changes? ;) ;)
Oh, almost forgot!! Watch out for OPEC and all oil producing countries wanted to charge a lot more for their dwindling super resource!! :'( :'( :'(
-
The UK, the European Union and the US want a good dose of inflation
to reduce the value of their debts. With inflation, the arithmetic value
placed on the debt remains the same but the actual value of the
debt reduces as the buying power and thus the value of the
underlying Fiat paper currency reduces.
This is why King,Trichet and Bernanke, at the behest of their
political masters, are desperately trying to keep interest
rates low for as long as possible. They've even changed
how they calculate inflation so that they can report it
below the actual rate of inflation. :)
This way they can kickstart some inflation off.
Can you remember when you bought your house in the
early '70's for circa £3000? Seemed a lot then, didn't it?
Fast forward to the '80's and it didn't seem so much
when you were buying at circa £50,000 and on to
the '00's when you're paying circa £165,000.
Everyone is still affording a percentage of their income,
but wages and prices have gone up so that it seems
roughly the same. That's the power of inflation for you.
The treasury is being quite astute here with the Fuel Duty
and VAT increases. The higher fuel prices will be passed on
by the hauliers and then by the shops to the consumers.
The price of goods go up and the treasury gets another
bonus as their VAT take goes up on the higher prices
of the goods.
Eventually, lagging behind, wages go up which cements
the inflation into the economy and thus reduces the value
of the national debt.
Meanwhile the value of your savings, in the Fiat paper
currency, have eroded away.
So will a fuel protest work?
Not on your nelly! There's too much to lose in the grand
scheme of things.
Have a nice day. :y
Yep, sums it all up nicely in another way G! Very astute observation! :y :y :y :y :y
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I couldn't vote as there wasn't an option for "pay more for fuel". In any case it would be a bit unethical for me to vote for even more pain for the Uk.
Why should it go up more? Simply to be able to pay for more weapons (Trident replacement £25B to £100B) more conflicts (forthcoming invasion of Iran etc £50B) and to keep the drones in their place working just about as hard as they can bear in order that the rich get richer. Oh and to avoid proper accountability of where our (sic) money actually is spent
Sorry but without tax rises there will be some unhappy folk at the Ministry. Roll on the £2 litre! :y
PS Unleaded is 1.27 euro here in Spain. In real terms (lower wages, 20% unemployment etc) that is more than it is in the UK. :'(
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I couldn't vote as there wasn't an option for "pay more for fuel". In any case it would be a bit unethical for me to vote for even more pain for the Uk.
Why should it go up more? Simply to be able to pay for more weapons (Trident replacement £25B to £100B) more conflicts (forthcoming invasion of Iran etc £50B) and to keep the drones in their place working just about as hard as they can bear in order that the rich get richer. Oh and to avoid proper accountability of where our (sic) money actually is spent
Sorry but without tax rises there will be some unhappy folk at the Ministry. Roll on the £2 litre! :y
PS Unleaded is 1.27 euro here in Spain. In real terms (lower wages, 20% unemployment etc) that is more than it is in the UK. :'(
That's right Varche, the whole world is having to bear increased fuel prices due to the economic situation. France is also on a par with the UK on unleaded fuel prices in line with their cost of living and earnings, Admittedly though their diesel is about 20% lower in price ;)
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Liz know what your saying, the trains were the beginning then they died off when the car became affordable and very very useful, thats what built society into what it is now, im not complaining that the price is to high on fuel, im angry at the stupid amount of tax paid on on it its simply not good enough or sensible that the you pay twice the amount the product cost just on tax? especially when the govermnment want us all to save for our old age and yet interest rates for savers is just 0.3percent!!
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Yes there should be. The Conservative government have done nothing that they said they would do, and everytime something is mentioned it's always the mess left by Labour. It's a load of shit it's about time they admitted they lied and have done the total opposite of what they said they were going to do.
well said del :y
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Liz know what your saying, the trains were the beginning then they died off when the car became affordable and very very useful, thats what built society into what it is now, im not complaining that the price is to high on fuel, im angry at the stupid amount of tax paid on on it its simply not good enough or sensible that the you pay twice the amount the product cost just on tax? especially when the govermnment want us all to save for our old age and yet interest rates for savers is just 0.3percent!!
That means over 100 now O! ::) ::) ::) :'( :'( ;)
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Liz know what your saying, the trains were the beginning then they died off when the car became affordable and very very useful, thats what built society into what it is now, im not complaining that the price is to high on fuel, im angry at the stupid amount of tax paid on on it its simply not good enough or sensible that the you pay twice the amount the product cost just on tax? especially when the govermnment want us all to save for our old age and yet interest rates for savers is just 0.3percent!!
That means over 100 now O! ::) ::) ::) :'( :'( ;)
lol yep but if they have to work longer they will need to use thier car longer, which they wont be able to afford to do !!! :y
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Liz know what your saying, the trains were the beginning then they died off when the car became affordable and very very useful, thats what built society into what it is now, im not complaining that the price is to high on fuel, im angry at the stupid amount of tax paid on on it its simply not good enough or sensible that the you pay twice the amount the product cost just on tax? especially when the govermnment want us all to save for our old age and yet interest rates for savers is just 0.3percent!!
That means over 100 now O! ::) ::) ::) :'( :'( ;)
lol yep but if they have to work longer they will need to use thier car longer, which they wont be able to afford to do !!! :y
The answer? Motorised Zimmer frames! ::) ::) :D :D ;)
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Trains? Never heard of them in these parts. I think Beeching got it right - if they cannot survive on their own merit, close the lines.
I also think HS2 should be scrapped, or at the very least, ENTIRELY paid for by the company running it.
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It shouldnt be about taxing us to pay for mistakes.
Put money in a workers pocket and they will spend more, When the mortgage rate was dropped (I personally think this was a mistake and said so at the time) People uped and moved, or built extentions, this in turn created more work for the building trade and business in general. More money in pockets meant more shopping, holidays and fancy goods, this was good all round and on the surface the mortgage drop was good and everyone was happy - Till the housing prices shot up - Now look at the mess. Less houses bullt, fuel costs going up, that cost then gets added to all trades as they use transport, travel costs go up on planes, trains and all forms of public transport. Who loses out - yup - Mr average trying to get to work.
Licening hours were altered in the 80's now look at the ammount of closed down pubs
Cut throat fuel prices - look at the amount of disused garages.
Mortgage cuts - Look at the record amount of reposesions.
IT's NOT BE ABOUT THE AMOUNT WE PAY IN TAX But I believe it's about the way it should be managed. As allready mentioned, MP's expences, Then government Grants, Homeless help for people coming from abroad and benfits handouts for the same. Ridiculous and exspensive survays to tell us what we allready know.
Any government is just another set of management, they get some of it right and most of it wrong, but as long as they are doing ok then they dont give a site (missed the H out - sorry)
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Trains? Never heard of them in these parts. I think Beeching got it right - if they cannot survive on their own merit, close the lines.
I also think HS2 should be scrapped, or at the very least, ENTIRELY paid for by the company running it.
Can't see that happening. What actually happens is the people pay for the infrastructure and R&D then when it is working the debt is written off and the company "floated" at a knockdown price. Everything is hunky dory for a while then because of no investment and no long term planning(too busy draining the coffers to pay shareholders) the process is started again.
Sound familar. It should.
Thinking about it maybe petrol should be £3 a litre so that HS2 can happen (in 17 years time apparently) and a national grid for fresh water, Nuclear power stations, Trident (can't forget that beggar) and the wars with Iran etc :y
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Allowing so many 'out of town' shopping centres was, frankly, a mistake, and has just ruined many a town and city centre, with encouragement and necessity given to the use of the car. These centres, now built, should be properly linked by railways, or tram ways, to further reduce the need for car travel. Far more frieght being moved by the railways should also be an aim to remove thousands of lorries from our roads, leaving just local delivery trucks running out from central rail linked warehouses (like it used to be, but for 'loose' frieght.
I know what I am saying will not be popular on here, but how long do you think we can keep clogging our roads and using vastly reduced oil stocks?
Oh, almost forgot!! Watch out for OPEC and all oil producing countries wanted to charge a lot more for their dwindling super resource!! :'( :'( :'(
Yes, I certainly agree with both Lizzie :y
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Can't see that happening. What actually happens is the people pay for the infrastructure and R&D then when it is working the debt is written off and the company "floated" at a knockdown price. Everything is hunky dory for a while then because of no investment and no long term planning(too busy draining the coffers to pay shareholders) the process is started again.
Sound familar. It should.
It certainly does V and unless there's a radical alighnment of the senses within our government (of whatever hue) there will be more to come.
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wow this is a popular topic i started
high fuel prices will affect the trains too there not all electric yet
some poeple complain about aircraft and the amount of fuel they use this is simple stay in the uk there is plenty to see in are wonderfull country
a holiday is just a memory to take to the grave
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Trains? Never heard of them in these parts. I think Beeching got it right - if they cannot survive on their own merit, close the lines.
I also think HS2 should be scrapped, or at the very least, ENTIRELY paid for by the company running it.
lol TB, you did! The Great Central main line, completed in 1899 to full modern standards ran just a few miles from you. Yes Beeching was responsible for its closure between 1966 and 1969, due to a belief this was an unnecessary duplication of the main West Coast and East Coast lines. How wrong he was, as now, if not then, this line was a crucial route between London, Rugby, Leicester, Nottingham and Sheffield for passengers, and frieght! Now that line could have not only have provided the extra capacity for the traffic that now needs to be dealt with, but would save a great many unnecessary car and lorry jouneys, thus saving fuel costs.
Imagine virtually every area being linked by rail TB; well it once was until Beeching, the government, and earlier politically anti-railway fiends got to work.
This was the railway map in 1900. The main lines are shown in thick black lines, with the crucial "feeding" branch lines running into them
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~pbtyc/Maps/England_Sea_Routes.html
How the UK lost out by abondoning its railway development advantage! >:( >:( >:( Time for a major re-think, with fuel prices, road congestion, the European link and an ever aging population who will not be able to drive for ever, to be taken into account. We should again have the advantages of a fine, widespread railway system, but one catering for the 21st century.
Forget fuel blockades, this is what we should protest for!8-) 8-) :y
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with the crucial "feeding" branch lines running into them
How the UK lost out by abondoning its railway development advantage! >:( >:( >:( Time for a major re-think, with fuel prices, road congestion, the European link and an ever aging population who will not be able to drive for ever, to be taken into account. We should again have the advantages of a fine, widespread railway system, but one catering for the 21st century.
Forget fuel blockades, this is what we should protest for!8-) 8-) :y
Yet again I find myself in agreement with you Lizzie - even with the dreaded 'European link'. :y
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Sorry, I think there should be another form of fuel blockade or demonstration. I firmly believe we should take a lesson from the French and stand up for ourselves rather than sitting back and taking it on the chin like the soft wimps that us Brits so often are. If we do nothing, the government will assume that we are all happy little bunnies with plenty of money to spare and put even more duty or tax on.
Providing that the blockade or demonstration was peaceful, it's one of the few ways us minions can let the bloody government know our feelings.
At the end of the day, it usually works for the French so why not us?
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with the crucial "feeding" branch lines running into them
How the UK lost out by abondoning its railway development advantage! >:( >:( >:( Time for a major re-think, with fuel prices, road congestion, the European link and an ever aging population who will not be able to drive for ever, to be taken into account. We should again have the advantages of a fine, widespread railway system, but one catering for the 21st century.
Forget fuel blockades, this is what we should protest for!8-) 8-) :y
Yet again I find myself in agreement with you Lizzie - even with the dreaded 'European link'. :y
I think the 'European link' would make an ideal test bed for large cans of expanding foam. ;D
Having been stranded by it once - never again.
As to railways, I think we've missed the boat. Had they grown with the vast development of conurbations that has taken place since Beeching's time, as they have in other countries, they may have been viable, but threading railways back into the suburbs and modern towns would be an impossible task, and if you can't walk or cycle to a station, that gets you in the right direction*, it may as well not be there.
* - i.e. not just towards or away from London - London is an irrelevance to most commuters.
Kevin
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with the crucial "feeding" branch lines running into them
How the UK lost out by abondoning its railway development advantage! >:( >:( >:( Time for a major re-think, with fuel prices, road congestion, the European link and an ever aging population who will not be able to drive for ever, to be taken into account. We should again have the advantages of a fine, widespread railway system, but one catering for the 21st century.
Forget fuel blockades, this is what we should protest for!8-) 8-) :y
Yet again I find myself in agreement with you Lizzie - even with the dreaded 'European link'. :y
I think the 'European link' would make an ideal test bed for large cans of expanding foam. ;D
Having been stranded by it once - never again.
As to railways, I think we've missed the boat. Had they grown with the vast development of conurbations that has taken place since Beeching's time, as they have in other countries, they may have been viable, but threading railways back into the suburbs and modern towns would be an impossible task, and if you can't walk or cycle to a station, that gets you in the right direction*, it may as well not be there.
* - i.e. not just towards or away from London - London is an irrelevance to most commuters.
Kevin
Yes, I certainly agree with that analysis K and no doubt, as Lizzie says, it would require a major rethink of the strategic transport network but to try and carry on as we are isn't a viable option as far as I can see.
The weakest link always seems to be the journey from home to the first point of public transport (for anything beyond very local journeys) - should this require a car then perhaps enhanced parking facilities should be installed at local feeder points where the traveller can be then taken on to major hubs if necessary.
It would seem sensible to try to reduce the amount of road traffic we are likely to see in the coming years but this should be done by making the alternative attractive, convenient and above all affordable, not by pricing road traffic from the roads.
-
with the crucial "feeding" branch lines running into them
How the UK lost out by abondoning its railway development advantage! >:( >:( >:( Time for a major re-think, with fuel prices, road congestion, the European link and an ever aging population who will not be able to drive for ever, to be taken into account. We should again have the advantages of a fine, widespread railway system, but one catering for the 21st century.
Forget fuel blockades, this is what we should protest for!8-) 8-) :y
Yet again I find myself in agreement with you Lizzie - even with the dreaded 'European link'. :y
I think the 'European link' would make an ideal test bed for large cans of expanding foam. ;D
Having been stranded by it once - never again.
As to railways, I think we've missed the boat. Had they grown with the vast development of conurbations that has taken place since Beeching's time, as they have in other countries, they may have been viable, but threading railways back into the suburbs and modern towns would be an impossible task, and if you can't walk or cycle to a station, that gets you in the right direction*, it may as well not be there.
* - i.e. not just towards or away from London - London is an irrelevance to most commuters.
Kevin
Yes, I certainly agree with that analysis K and no doubt, as Lizzie says, it would require a major rethink of the strategic transport network but to try and carry on as we are isn't a viable option as far as I can see.
The weakest link always seems to be the journey from home to the first point of public transport (for anything beyond very local journeys) - should this require a car then perhaps enhanced parking facilities should be installed at local feeder points where the traveller can be then taken on to major hubs if necessary.
It would seem sensible to try to reduce the amount of road traffic we are likely to see in the coming years but this should be done by making the alternative attractive, convenient and above all affordable, not by pricing road traffic from the roads.
Indeed ZL! When I say major I really do mean major, and massive investment to follow, with no holds barred! It would take real commitment and dedication by the politicians to make it happen, with a very brave approach :y :y
I see it on a par with the great Victorian railway projects and their absolute commitment to make it happen, something that built the Empire and is so often seen by many, especially on the OOF, to be missing in modern Britain.
Kevin of course makes some very valid points, especially the one of the UK "missing the boat" and not keeping the railway development in pace with population spread and conurbations. He is also right about the hard task of driving new railways through the urban suburbs. However, that is not an "impossible task" as Kevin suggests. Very difficult and expensive yes, but not impossible.
The Victorian engineers managed such a task, although admittedly far more 'empty space' existed for their building. But the modern motorway builders have pushed their roads through whole cities, one example being the M5 and M6 through Birmingham. In addition modern railway construction techniquies and accepted practice have developed so that major lines are 'cut and buried', put into very long tunnels under urban areas, or simply placed on long viaducts, for example with the HS1 line through Kent, under/ into East London to St.Pancras. The cross London link is also adopting the same principles.
It is not generally recognised but a double stretch of track takes up less room than a three lane motorway. Tram ways would take up even less room, so they could radiate out from the main line stations to the various suburbs, going along old track bed plus existing road space. I believe Manchester, to name one city in this country, has such a system, as does Croydon in a far smaller way. Many foreign cites of course have never lost they faith in trams, and they are widespread!! ::) ::)
With Victorian type commitment, passion and entrepreneurship, coupled to 21st century construction skills, with 100 of billions of pounds spent, which will have to be found if we are going to advance a modern integrated transport system, plus that magic ingredient of POLITICAL WILL, it CAN be done! :y :y :y
PS If our country does not bite the bullet on this now, then in 25 years time motorists will be complaining about impossible traffic conditions and fuel prices of £30 a gallon, with no alternative available!! :'( :'( :'(
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Trains? Never heard of them in these parts. I think Beeching got it right - if they cannot survive on their own merit, close the lines.
I also think HS2 should be scrapped, or at the very least, ENTIRELY paid for by the company running it.
lol TB, you did! The Great Central main line, completed in 1899 to full modern standards ran just a few miles from you. Yes Beeching was responsible for its closure between 1966 and 1969, due to a belief this was an unnecessary duplication of the main West Coast and East Coast lines. How wrong he was, as now, if not then, this line was a crucial route between London, Rugby, Leicester, Nottingham and Sheffield for passengers, and frieght! Now that line could have not only have provided the extra capacity for the traffic that now needs to be dealt with, but would save a great many unnecessary car and lorry jouneys, thus saving fuel costs.
Imagine virtually every area being linked by rail TB; well it once was until Beeching, the government, and earlier politically anti-railway fiends got to work.
This was the railway map in 1900. The main lines are shown in thick black lines, with the crucial "feeding" branch lines running into them
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~pbtyc/Maps/England_Sea_Routes.html
How the UK lost out by abondoning its railway development advantage! >:( >:( >:( Time for a major re-think, with fuel prices, road congestion, the European link and an ever aging population who will not be able to drive for ever, to be taken into account. We should again have the advantages of a fine, widespread railway system, but one catering for the 21st century.
Forget fuel blockades, this is what we should protest for!8-) 8-) :y
But I wasn't born until 1970 ::). Long gone by then. And the fact it hasn't been used for the past 40yrs shows it was not required.
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Trains? Never heard of them in these parts. I think Beeching got it right - if they cannot survive on their own merit, close the lines.
I also think HS2 should be scrapped, or at the very least, ENTIRELY paid for by the company running it.
lol TB, you did! The Great Central main line, completed in 1899 to full modern standards ran just a few miles from you. Yes Beeching was responsible for its closure between 1966 and 1969, due to a belief this was an unnecessary duplication of the main West Coast and East Coast lines. How wrong he was, as now, if not then, this line was a crucial route between London, Rugby, Leicester, Nottingham and Sheffield for passengers, and frieght! Now that line could have not only have provided the extra capacity for the traffic that now needs to be dealt with, but would save a great many unnecessary car and lorry jouneys, thus saving fuel costs.
Imagine virtually every area being linked by rail TB; well it once was until Beeching, the government, and earlier politically anti-railway fiends got to work.
This was the railway map in 1900. The main lines are shown in thick black lines, with the crucial "feeding" branch lines running into them
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~pbtyc/Maps/England_Sea_Routes.html
How the UK lost out by abondoning its railway development advantage! >:( >:( >:( Time for a major re-think, with fuel prices, road congestion, the European link and an ever aging population who will not be able to drive for ever, to be taken into account. We should again have the advantages of a fine, widespread railway system, but one catering for the 21st century.
Forget fuel blockades, this is what we should protest for!8-) 8-) :y
But I wasn't born until 1970 ::). Long gone by then. And the fact it hasn't been used for the past 40yrs shows it was not required.
But since the period from 1966 to 1969 when it was dismantled, no track for trains to use TB! ::) ::) ;D ;D ;D ;D ;)
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with the crucial "feeding" branch lines running into them
How the UK lost out by abondoning its railway development advantage! >:( >:( >:( Time for a major re-think, with fuel prices, road congestion, the European link and an ever aging population who will not be able to drive for ever, to be taken into account. We should again have the advantages of a fine, widespread railway system, but one catering for the 21st century.
Forget fuel blockades, this is what we should protest for!8-) 8-) :y
Yet again I find myself in agreement with you Lizzie - even with the dreaded 'European link'. :y
I think the 'European link' would make an ideal test bed for large cans of expanding foam. ;D
Having been stranded by it once - never again.
As to railways, I think we've missed the boat. Had they grown with the vast development of conurbations that has taken place since Beeching's time, as they have in other countries, they may have been viable, but threading railways back into the suburbs and modern towns would be an impossible task, and if you can't walk or cycle to a station, that gets you in the right direction*, it may as well not be there.
* - i.e. not just towards or away from London - London is an irrelevance to most commuters.
Kevin
Yes, I certainly agree with that analysis K and no doubt, as Lizzie says, it would require a major rethink of the strategic transport network but to try and carry on as we are isn't a viable option as far as I can see.
The weakest link always seems to be the journey from home to the first point of public transport (for anything beyond very local journeys) - should this require a car then perhaps enhanced parking facilities should be installed at local feeder points where the traveller can be then taken on to major hubs if necessary.
It would seem sensible to try to reduce the amount of road traffic we are likely to see in the coming years but this should be done by making the alternative attractive, convenient and above all affordable, not by pricing road traffic from the roads.
Indeed ZL! When I say major I really do mean major, and massive investment to follow, with no holds barred! It would take real commitment and dedication by the politicians to make it happen, with a very brave approach :y :y
I see it on a par with the great Victorian railway projects and their absolute commitment to make it happen, something that built the Empire and is so often seen by many, especially on the OOF, to be missing in modern Britain.
Kevin of course makes some very valid points, especially the one of the UK "missing the boat" and not keeping the railway development in pace with population spread and conurbations. He is also right about the hard task of driving new railways through the urban suburbs. However, that is not an "impossible task" as Kevin suggests. Very difficult and expensive yes, but not impossible.
The Victorian engineers managed such a task, although admittedly far more 'empty space' existed for their building. But the modern motorway builders have pushed their roads through whole cities, one example being the M5 and M6 through Birmingham. In addition modern railway construction techniquies and accepted practice have developed so that major lines are 'cut and buried', put into very long tunnels under urban areas, or simply placed on long viaducts, for example with the HS1 line through Kent, under/ into East London to St.Pancras. The cross London link is also adopting the same principles.
It is not generally recognised but a double stretch of track takes up less room than a three lane motorway. Tram ways would take up even less room, so they could radiate out from the main line stations to the various suburbs, going along old track bed plus existing road space. I believe Manchester, to name one city in this country, has such a system, as does Croydon in a far smaller way. Many foreign cites of course have never lost they faith in trams, and they are widespread!! ::) ::)
With Victorian type commitment, passion and entrepreneurship, coupled to 21st century construction skills, with 100 of billions of pounds spent, which will have to be found if we are going to advance a modern integrated transport system, plus that magic ingredient of POLITICAL WILL, it CAN be done! :y :y :y
PS If our country does not bite the bullet on this now, then in 25 years time motorists will be complaining about impossible traffic conditions and fuel prices of £30 a gallon, with no alternative available!! :'( :'( :'(
but surely that just reiterates what i have said? trains are not good enough and probably never will be, society is built up the use of the motor car giving the personal freedom and choice of where to work and shop, such a high taxation rate ends this choice and leads to people spending less!! bring the tax down!!
-
with the crucial "feeding" branch lines running into them
How the UK lost out by abondoning its railway development advantage! >:( >:( >:( Time for a major re-think, with fuel prices, road congestion, the European link and an ever aging population who will not be able to drive for ever, to be taken into account. We should again have the advantages of a fine, widespread railway system, but one catering for the 21st century.
Forget fuel blockades, this is what we should protest for!8-) 8-) :y
Yet again I find myself in agreement with you Lizzie - even with the dreaded 'European link'. :y
I think the 'European link' would make an ideal test bed for large cans of expanding foam. ;D
Having been stranded by it once - never again.
As to railways, I think we've missed the boat. Had they grown with the vast development of conurbations that has taken place since Beeching's time, as they have in other countries, they may have been viable, but threading railways back into the suburbs and modern towns would be an impossible task, and if you can't walk or cycle to a station, that gets you in the right direction*, it may as well not be there.
* - i.e. not just towards or away from London - London is an irrelevance to most commuters.
Kevin
Yes, I certainly agree with that analysis K and no doubt, as Lizzie says, it would require a major rethink of the strategic transport network but to try and carry on as we are isn't a viable option as far as I can see.
The weakest link always seems to be the journey from home to the first point of public transport (for anything beyond very local journeys) - should this require a car then perhaps enhanced parking facilities should be installed at local feeder points where the traveller can be then taken on to major hubs if necessary.
It would seem sensible to try to reduce the amount of road traffic we are likely to see in the coming years but this should be done by making the alternative attractive, convenient and above all affordable, not by pricing road traffic from the roads.
Indeed ZL! When I say major I really do mean major, and massive investment to follow, with no holds barred! It would take real commitment and dedication by the politicians to make it happen, with a very brave approach :y :y
I see it on a par with the great Victorian railway projects and their absolute commitment to make it happen, something that built the Empire and is so often seen by many, especially on the OOF, to be missing in modern Britain.
Kevin of course makes some very valid points, especially the one of the UK "missing the boat" and not keeping the railway development in pace with population spread and conurbations. He is also right about the hard task of driving new railways through the urban suburbs. However, that is not an "impossible task" as Kevin suggests. Very difficult and expensive yes, but not impossible.
The Victorian engineers managed such a task, although admittedly far more 'empty space' existed for their building. But the modern motorway builders have pushed their roads through whole cities, one example being the M5 and M6 through Birmingham. In addition modern railway construction techniquies and accepted practice have developed so that major lines are 'cut and buried', put into very long tunnels under urban areas, or simply placed on long viaducts, for example with the HS1 line through Kent, under/ into East London to St.Pancras. The cross London link is also adopting the same principles.
It is not generally recognised but a double stretch of track takes up less room than a three lane motorway. Tram ways would take up even less room, so they could radiate out from the main line stations to the various suburbs, going along old track bed plus existing road space. I believe Manchester, to name one city in this country, has such a system, as does Croydon in a far smaller way. Many foreign cites of course have never lost they faith in trams, and they are widespread!! ::) ::)
With Victorian type commitment, passion and entrepreneurship, coupled to 21st century construction skills, with 100 of billions of pounds spent, which will have to be found if we are going to advance a modern integrated transport system, plus that magic ingredient of POLITICAL WILL, it CAN be done! :y :y :y
PS If our country does not bite the bullet on this now, then in 25 years time motorists will be complaining about impossible traffic conditions and fuel prices of £30 a gallon, with no alternative available!! :'( :'( :'(
but surely that just reiterates what i have said? trains are not good enough and probably never will be, society is built up the use of the motor car giving the personal freedom and choice of where to work and shop, such a high taxation rate ends this choice and leads to people spending less!! bring the tax down!!
How does my piece do that O?
As for society and the motor car that has only really happened post 1955, and there is no long term future for a metal cage that takes up large amounts of road / land space, on eventually hopelessly congested roads, in a country that will have 80 million people, 10% over 100 years of age, with fuel at prohibitive prices, and using 20th century technology. The then modern world will need a fast, large mass transport system, with very high speed railways at its core O ;) ;).
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Flying cars.
That's what we need ;)
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Sorry, I think there should be another form of fuel blockade or demonstration. I firmly believe we should take a lesson from the French and stand up for ourselves rather than sitting back and taking it on the chin like the soft wimps that us Brits so often are. If we do nothing, the government will assume that we are all happy little bunnies with plenty of money to spare and put even more duty or tax on.
Providing that the blockade or demonstration was peaceful, it's one of the few ways us minions can let the bloody government know our feelings.
At the end of the day, it usually works for the French so why not us?
Totally agree mate as always we just bend over and take what ever crap is delt us. Other countries need help because blar blar and were always handing over our hard earn'ed to help but nothing for us as always. I am sick to death of paying hand over fist for things what ever it may be. Once the prices have gone up on things it will never ever go down so i agree we need to do something to keep the cost of fuel down. :y
We used to have are own fuel own gas and run most of the world queen victoria would be turnning in her grave.
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Sorry, I think there should be another form of fuel blockade or demonstration. I firmly believe we should take a lesson from the French and stand up for ourselves rather than sitting back and taking it on the chin like the soft wimps that us Brits so often are. If we do nothing, the government will assume that we are all happy little bunnies with plenty of money to spare and put even more duty or tax on.
Providing that the blockade or demonstration was peaceful, it's one of the few ways us minions can let the bloody government know our feelings.
At the end of the day, it usually works for the French so why not us?
It will never happen! Great idea but if the average Brit can drag themselves away from Hello! or the latest twist with Jordan's latest marriage then they aren't going to go OUTSIDe to complain. far better just to have a quiet moan on the Internet.
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Ok right let's make this a forum thing? Every forum you're on post this up and get as many as we can to do it?
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The British government were elected by the people of Britain for the people of Britain,they are in power to listen and act on what we say,do they,or any other elected power, NO. So the country should then act on having them removed and someone else run our country.Who you might ask,i say CLARCKSON,any thoughts......... ;)
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Just remember everyone "were all in this together" Oh! except the people that are dishing out the crap,they certainly won't be having to taste it from their priveliged and protected positions! >:(
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I've voted... Afraid that, much as I dislike paying the prices we do, fuel blockades are not the answer. More effective would be for everyone in the country to stop driving for a couple of days (not necessarily consecutive) and therefore no fill up... It won't happen though.
At the end of the day the current government have to do something about the deficit and fuel duty/tax and VAT in general are the fairest ways to do it.
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Blaming this on the coalition is wrong, the previous government had over a decade to put us in this mess, if Gordon brown hadn’t sold all our gold when prices were at an all time low just so on the outside he could appear a competent chancellor.
We can’t tax the 'rich' anymore or they’ll all bugger off.
The gov have imposed the cancelation of child benefit for people earning in the highest tax bracket.
As for prices etc, I’m a shopkeeper and we certainly haven’t just 'banged 20p on a loaf of bread'. The cost of fuel effect everything you buy in a shop, everything in a supermarket has been on at least 5 Lorries at some point.....
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Blaming this on the coalition is wrong, the previous government had over a decade to put us in this mess, if Gordon brown hadn’t sold all our gold when prices were at an all time low just so on the outside he could appear a competent chancellor.
We can’t tax the 'rich' anymore or they’ll all bugger off.
The gov have imposed the cancelation of child benefit for people earning in the highest tax bracket.
As for prices etc, I’m a shopkeeper and we certainly haven’t just 'banged 20p on a loaf of bread'. The cost of fuel effect everything you buy in a shop, everything in a supermarket has been on at least 5 Lorries at some point.....
Please desist from inserting a modicom of intelligence and common sense into pseudo-political threads .....
You'll have the "blame everything on the Tories" department crying into their socialist issued mugs of tea
:)
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Blaming this on the coalition is wrong, the previous government had over a decade to put us in this mess, if Gordon brown hadn’t sold all our gold when prices were at an all time low just so on the outside he could appear a competent chancellor.
We can’t tax the 'rich' anymore or they’ll all bugger off.
The gov have imposed the cancelation of child benefit for people earning in the highest tax bracket.
As for prices etc, I’m a shopkeeper and we certainly haven’t just 'banged 20p on a loaf of bread'. The cost of fuel effect everything you buy in a shop, everything in a supermarket has been on at least 5 Lorries at some point.....
Please desist from inserting a modicom of intelligence and common sense into pseudo-political threads .....
You'll have the "blame everything on the Tories" department crying into their socialist issued mugs of tea
:)
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Quality comment E!! :y :y
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1091 vewings but only 51 votes
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I would echo much of what Pembsomega has said. It is ludicrous to forget everything which happened before the last election and put the blame on the current Govt. They have had very little time to sort out the mess, although I personally have serious doubts that they will actually sort it.
I do think it is possible that another blockade would have some effect. When Bliar ignored the last one he had the luxury of a huge majority in Parliament, wheras the current Govt. are a fragile coalition who I think might be more easy to frighten into action.
Im not convinced that tax rises are the way out of the current situation. I feel strongly that there is a hell of a lot more waste and deadwood to be cut out of the bloated public sector before private sector businesses and their employees should be considered for donating yet more to the cause of refilling the treasury money box.
And it has been demonstrated in the past in the U.S that tax cuts can actually regenerate an economy and bring in more taxation revenue than the lazy, unimaginative method of simply taking more of peoples wages from them.
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i think there all a load of liers and say anything to get us to vote for them.lets take a leaf out the french book and bring the whole country to a stand still for a week or 2.it always works for them and if people in this country had the balls to do it so would we.i wouldnt think twice about blocking the m25 with a truck
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Trains? Never heard of them in these parts. I think Beeching got it right - if they cannot survive on their own merit, close the lines.
I also think HS2 should be scrapped, or at the very least, ENTIRELY paid for by the company running it.
There were certainly trains to Brackley in the '50s, as day boys used to commute from Woodford Halse to our school. :y
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I would echo much of what Pembsomega has said. It is ludicrous to forget everything which happened before the last election and put the blame on the current Govt. They have had very little time to sort out the mess, although I personally have serious doubts that they will actually sort it.
I do think it is possible that another blockade would have some effect. When Bliar ignored the last one he had the luxury of a huge majority in Parliament, wheras the current Govt. are a fragile coalition who I think might be more easy to frighten into action.
Im not convinced that tax rises are the way out of the current situation. I feel strongly that there is a hell of a lot more waste and deadwood to be cut out of the bloated public sector before private sector businesses and their employees should be considered for donating yet more to the cause of refilling the treasury money box.
And it has been demonstrated in the past in the U.S that tax cuts can actually regenerate an economy and bring in more taxation revenue than the lazy, unimaginative method of simply taking more of peoples wages from them.
Totally agree, when labour came to power in 1997 for every one civilian working in the mod there was ten solders in the army/air force/navy
now for every ONE civilian worker in the mod there is only TWO solders.
Why did the mod need to increase its staff by more than 300%? because labour new by creating meaningless cushy public sector jobs then they could guarantee a huge vote form these workers 'because the torys would cut your jobs don’t ya know, vote labour'
I worked a few years ago as a security guard for group four, on their 'prime' contract, looking after dhss offices, job centres and the like, I was forever hearing people in these offices (staff) saying things like, 'we're working for tony' I couldn’t get them to understand that they were not working for tony or for labour, but for the country and the taxpayers, regardless of the incumbent government they were civil servants, but they wouldn’t have it.
My local council has almost tripled its staff since 2000; it’s now my counties biggest employer, why? Because before people had a job and they did it. if you wanted to complain about the bins you rang the bin department and spoke to a bin man or his boss, now you ring the call centre, who puts you through to the complaints dept and then you have a call back from someone else, so now you have 4 people doing what one man used to do along with whatever else he did on his day. It’s unreal.
One more thing, why whenever any public service or council says they have to cut jobs the unions come out bleating? this is 2011, the country has piss all money left, everyone is having to compromise and make savings, NO ONE IS ENTITLED TO A JOB FOR LIFE THESE DAYS, IF THERES NO MONEY TO PAY YOU THEN YOU LOOSE YOUR JOBS
I’m self employed and no one’s standing up for the like of me, be they mechanic, builder, plumber, shop keeper, driving instructor, or whatever, we have to tighten our belts and make sure we are careful so our businesses survive, I employ 6 people if I go bust they are out of work. Whose fighting our corner and threatening strikes just because they public sector has been dragged into the real world.
Rant over
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I like you Pembs, you stay as long as you like mate. :y :D ;D
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less than an hour to get the votes in still only 54 votes
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Unleaded has gone up another 2.4% here in Spain in a week. Now 1.3 euro a litre. No bueno!
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I think the suggestion in this e-mail I received recently may have more effect:
[size=12]We are hitting £129.9 a litre in some areas now and soon we will be faced with paying £1.50 per litre. So Philip Hollsworth offered this good idea:
This makes MUCH MORE SENSE than the 'don't buy petrol on a certain day campaign' that was going around last April or May! The oil companies just laughed at that because they knew we wouldn't continue to hurt ourselves by refusing to buy petrol. It was more of an inconvenience to us than it was a problem for them. BUT, whoever thought of this idea, has come up with a plan that can really work.
Please read it. and if you agree, join in...
Now that the oil companies and the OPEC nations have conditioned us to think that the cost of a litre is CHEAP, we need to take aggressive action to teach them that BUYERS - not sellers, control the market place. With the price of petrol going up more each day, we consumers need to take action. The only way we are going to see the price of petrol come down is if we hit someone in the pocket by not purchasing their petrol! And we can do that WITHOUT hurting ourselves. Here's the idea:
For the rest of this year (2011) DON'T purchase ANY fuel from the two biggest oil companies (which now are one) i.e. ESSO and BP.
If they are not selling any petrol, they will be inclined to reduce their prices. If they reduce their prices, the other companies will have to follow suit. But to have an impact we need to reach literally millions of Esso and BP petrol buyers all around the world.
Well, it's really simple to do!!
Please don't wimp out on me at this point... keep reading and I'll explain how simple it is to reach the millions of fuel-buyers we need to make it work.
I am sending this note to at least 30 people. If all of you send it to at least ten more (30 x 10 = 300)....and those 300 send it to at least ten more (300 x 10 = 3,000) ... and so on. By the time the message reaches the sixth generation of people, we will have reached over THREE MILLION consumers! If those three million get excited and pass this on to ten friends each, then 30 million people will have been contacted! If it goes one level further, you guessed it.....
THREE HUNDRED MILLION PEOPLE!!!
Again, all YOU have to do is send this to 10 people
(or as many as you can). That's all you have to do plus NOT buy motor fuel at ESSO/BP).
So how long would all that take? If each of us sends this email out to ten more people within one day of receipt, all 300 plus MILLION people could conceivably be contacted within the next 8 days!!! Acting together we can make a difference. If this makes sense to you, please pass this message on.
AND PLEASE HOLD OUT UNTIL THEY LOWER THEIR PRICES.
It's easy to make this happen. Just forward this email, and buy your petrol at Shell,Asda,Tesco, Sainsburys, Morrisons, Jet etc. i.e. Boycott BP and Esso.
Just imagine the panic at BP and Esso Headquarters when
the fuel sales (and product sales from their forecourt shops) suddenly begin to fall.
Send this to ten e-addresses (or as many as you can) and not buy anything at BP or Esso forecourts. A simple yet effective way to see what a difference People Power can make.
[/size]
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http://www.snopes.com/politics/gasoline/gasout.asp
... sorry.
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Why boycot the decent fuel providers
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Since I do very few miles, it makes no difference to me, but I think it might make some people feel better if they blockade or boycott certain companies.
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result of pole
58 votes 70.7% said yes infaver of action
thank you to everyone for taking part and making this topic so populer
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I would echo much of what Pembsomega has said. It is ludicrous to forget everything which happened before the last election and put the blame on the current Govt. They have had very little time to sort out the mess, although I personally have serious doubts that they will actually sort it.
I do think it is possible that another blockade would have some effect. When Bliar ignored the last one he had the luxury of a huge majority in Parliament, wheras the current Govt. are a fragile coalition who I think might be more easy to frighten into action.
Im not convinced that tax rises are the way out of the current situation. I feel strongly that there is a hell of a lot more waste and deadwood to be cut out of the bloated public sector before private sector businesses and their employees should be considered for donating yet more to the cause of refilling the treasury money box.
And it has been demonstrated in the past in the U.S that tax cuts can actually regenerate an economy and bring in more taxation revenue than the lazy, unimaginative method of simply taking more of peoples wages from them.
Totally agree, when labour came to power in 1997 for every one civilian working in the mod there was ten solders in the army/air force/navy
now for every ONE civilian worker in the mod there is only TWO solders.
Why did the mod need to increase its staff by more than 300%? because labour new by creating meaningless cushy public sector jobs then they could guarantee a huge vote form these workers 'because the torys would cut your jobs don’t ya know, vote labour'
I worked a few years ago as a security guard for group four, on their 'prime' contract, looking after dhss offices, job centres and the like, I was forever hearing people in these offices (staff) saying things like, 'we're working for tony' I couldn’t get them to understand that they were not working for tony or for labour, but for the country and the taxpayers, regardless of the incumbent government they were civil servants, but they wouldn’t have it.
My local council has almost tripled its staff since 2000; it’s now my counties biggest employer, why? Because before people had a job and they did it. if you wanted to complain about the bins you rang the bin department and spoke to a bin man or his boss, now you ring the call centre, who puts you through to the complaints dept and then you have a call back from someone else, so now you have 4 people doing what one man used to do along with whatever else he did on his day. It’s unreal.
One more thing, why whenever any public service or council says they have to cut jobs the unions come out bleating? this is 2011, the country has piss all money left, everyone is having to compromise and make savings, NO ONE IS ENTITLED TO A JOB FOR LIFE THESE DAYS, IF THERES NO MONEY TO PAY YOU THEN YOU LOOSE YOUR JOBS
I’m self employed and no one’s standing up for the like of me, be they mechanic, builder, plumber, shop keeper, driving instructor, or whatever, we have to tighten our belts and make sure we are careful so our businesses survive, I employ 6 people if I go bust they are out of work. Whose fighting our corner and threatening strikes just because they public sector has been dragged into the real world.
Rant over
I agree, too many public sector workers, lets close them down, get rid of Police and Fire, refuse collections, parks and libraries, Courts, museums etc and of course social services, who wants these services anyway? and if there are no social services we can not complain about the Baby P cases that occasionally hit the press, or the lack of support for disabled children as well as adults.... :y :y :y
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I doubt there are too many public service WORKERS .. but there are certainly far to many public service MANAGERS and far too many public service "lets make up a job description".
Unfortunately, from my experience, there are very few actual WORKERS doing what they should, and a very bloated remainder taking what they can from the taxpayer.
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I doubt there are too many public service WORKERS .. but there are certainly far to many public service MANAGERS and far too many public service "lets make up a job description".
Unfortunately, from my experience, there are very few actual WORKERS doing what they should, and a very bloated remainder taking what they can from the taxpayer.
Dead right Nige >:(
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I doubt there are too many public service WORKERS .. but there are certainly far to many public service MANAGERS and far too many public service "lets make up a job description".
Unfortunately, from my experience, there are very few actual WORKERS doing what they should, and a very bloated remainder taking what they can from the taxpayer.
Dead right Nige >:(
I would have to agree to that, and I would suggest the public have no idea of the number of 'nojobs' in middle management.... :-X
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BBC Tv was saying this a.m. that unleaded will be 1.36p by April when the next scheduled government rise kicks in.
The other thing that was interesting was that UK diesel was the 2nd most expensive in Europe and Unleaded the fifth (if I remember correctly) in Europe.
Had to laugh at the suggestion of a discount for UK rural dwellers. Great concept but just how would that work. No the time to think about that was when "competition" killed the rural petrol station. Thankfully Petrol is more or less the same price everywhere in Spain. At least common sense has prevailed in Spain where rural dwellers re valued. Ye reap what you sow.
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I agree, too many public sector workers, lets close them down, get rid of Police and Fire, refuse collections, parks and libraries, Courts, museums etc and of course social services, who wants these services anyway? and if there are no social services we can not complain about the Baby P cases that occasionally hit the press, or the lack of support for disabled children as well as adults.... :y :y :y
did i say that? i suggest you take a minute and reread my post, if you confused me saying public sector workers for for people that actually that work on the front line then im sorry for not being clear enough but even the middle managers who work in the public sector are public sector workers. ofcorse we need fire men, police men, social workers etc, but we dont need an army of people to manage them on 50k plus a year each. why are many local council cheif executives paid more than the primeminister?
there was an advert in my local paper last year, for a postion in the local council, as "head of renewable nappy stratergy" basicaly encoraging parents to use terry nappies on the basis that its more enviromentaly friendly, and your reward for this? 55k a year. and head of it? so there more than one working on this?????
it needs to stop
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I agree, too many public sector workers, lets close them down, get rid of Police and Fire, refuse collections, parks and libraries, Courts, museums etc and of course social services, who wants these services anyway? and if there are no social services we can not complain about the Baby P cases that occasionally hit the press, or the lack of support for disabled children as well as adults.... :y :y :y
did i say that? i suggest you take a minute and reread my post, if you confused me saying public sector workers for for people that actually that work on the front line then im sorry for not being clear enough but even the middle managers who work in the public sector are public sector workers. ofcorse we need fire men, police men, social workers etc, but we dont need an army of people to manage them on 50k plus a year each. why are many local council cheif executives paid more than the primeminister?
there was an advert in my local paper last year, for a postion in the local council, as "head of renewable nappy stratergy" basicaly encoraging parents to use terry nappies on the basis that its more enviromentaly friendly, and your reward for this? 55k a year. and head of it? so there more than one working on this????? it needs to stop
Fantastic. And if you "buttered" up the terry nappy manufacturer you could be on double that! :y
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This country should stop bailing out other countries that are financialy unstable that way wouldn't be in this mess, all this goverment and goverment bodies have done is spend, spend, spend money we don't have therefore the country is in so much debt. The goverment need to start recoperating tis money back from whoever it was loaned too, we might just then start lowering taxes and vat on most things we use. This goverment is shite, they don't know what they are doing, blame everyone else for mistakes that are made, don't own up to mistakes they have made and most of all LIE TO EVERYONE ABOUT HOW THEY ARE GOING TO MAKE THIS COUNTRY BETTER.
Like most people have said stop buying fuel for 10 days that will make them shake in there boots a little.
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A fuel blockade is not the answer right now in my opinion. I do however think the Government must act responsibly, open their eyes and look at what the hell is going on out here. Unfortunately we are where we are, and it will always be us, the average people on the street that have to bail the country out of such financial difficulties because, let’s face it, there is know one else.
It’s all too easy to portion the blame on someone else, and I know “hindsight” is a wonderful thing, but If the previous Government and Bank of England had kept tighter reigns on what the Banks had been up to in the last few years we would not be in as big a mess as we are now, meaning duty on fuel would not have to be so high now to help finance the recovery. Maybe the Billions of pounds being awarded to the Bankers in bonuses for getting us in this mess in the first place should be re-directed into the treasury, to help address the deficit, as it was us, the tax payer that bailed the Banks out don’t forget.
I don’t agree with the coalition government’s recovery tactics with their massive cut backs and VAT rises. Makes my blood boil when the Bank of England say that interest rates are going to be raised to try and slow down the rise in inflation, but wait a minute, why is inflation rising again? Is it something to do with the fact that VAT has risen to 20% and fuel levy set at obscene levels and due to rise some more? In my opinion the Government is cutting back too much too soon, they are trying to make their mark before being booted out again, and will blame each other for their collective failure. They, the Government, have a responsibility to keep the country solvent yes, but also to keep the electorate solvent and maintain an environment where we can work and earn an honest day’s crust, and be allowed our dignity. If they are not extremely careful the whole country will collapse into it’s own financial rectum leaving us in a bigger bloody meltdown than we are now. And while we are focusing on our own parochial mess here in Britain, the likes of the Chinese will be busy taking over the world flexing their unfair trade embargo muscles. :( :(