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Chat Area => General Car Chat => Topic started by: feeutfo on 24 April 2011, 17:54:17

Title: Lotus Carlton today
Post by: feeutfo on 24 April 2011, 17:54:17
Going the other way at a roundabout locally, spun round and followed it for a closer look... He over took a car and buggered off.  :o ;D

I caught him up later though  8-) stuck behind another car.  :-[

Bloody quick, but looked a bit lumbering in a twisty section. :-/

A tidy example though, by the looks.  :y
Title: Re: Lotus Carlton today
Post by: TheBoy on 24 April 2011, 19:03:33
Basically similar suspension setup, though who knows how old it is. Yours, with brand new springs/shocks shoud be (and is) tight as a tight thing in the bends


Edit so as not to cause offence
Title: Re: Lotus Carlton today
Post by: feeutfo on 24 April 2011, 19:17:13
What do they put out? 350? Considerably more than mine for sure.  :-[  ;D

...and offense? What did he say? Anyone see?
Title: Re: Lotus Carlton today
Post by: omegadan67 on 24 April 2011, 19:20:55
Quote
What do they put out? 350? Considerably more than mine for sure.  :-[  ;D

...and offense? What did he say? Anyone see?


377 bhp and 420 lbs/ft
Title: Re: Lotus Carlton today
Post by: feeutfo on 24 April 2011, 19:29:29
Quote
Quote
What do they put out? 350? Considerably more than mine for sure.  :-[  ;D

...and offense? What did he say? Anyone see?


377 bhp and 420 lbs/ft


That'll do it.    ;D.  :y
Title: Re: Lotus Carlton today
Post by: Andy B on 24 April 2011, 19:32:18
Quote
Quote
What do they put out? 350? Considerably more than mine for sure.  :-[  ;D

...and offense? What did he say? Anyone see?


377 bhp and 420 lbs/ft

not bad for a modified 'crappy' Senator straight 6  ;) ;) ;)


Title: Re: Lotus Carlton today
Post by: feeutfo on 24 April 2011, 19:42:47
Quote
Quote
Quote
What do they put out? 350? Considerably more than mine for sure.  :-[  ;D

...and offense? What did he say? Anyone see?


377 bhp and 420 lbs/ft

not bad for a modified 'crappy' Senator straight 6  ;) ;) ;)


Rather have a vxr8 any day. But for it's age, very impressive.

Title: Re: Lotus Carlton today
Post by: albitz on 24 April 2011, 19:50:46
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Quote
Quote
What do they put out? 350? Considerably more than mine for sure.  :-[  ;D

...and offense? What did he say? Anyone see?


377 bhp and 420 lbs/ft

not bad for a modified 'crappy' Senator straight 6  ;) ;) ;)


Wonder what would happen to a v6 if someone tried to extract  377bhp and 420lbs/ft from one ?? ::)
Title: Re: Lotus Carlton today
Post by: TheBoy on 24 April 2011, 19:56:08
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Quote
Quote
Quote
What do they put out? 350? Considerably more than mine for sure.  :-[  ;D

...and offense? What did he say? Anyone see?


377 bhp and 420 lbs/ft

not bad for a modified 'crappy' Senator straight 6  ;) ;) ;)


Wonder what would happen to a v6 if someone tried to extract  377bhp and 420lbs/ft from one ?? ::)
Done properly, like the 3.6, probably not a lot ;)
Title: Re: Lotus Carlton today
Post by: albitz on 24 April 2011, 20:00:11
you sure ? ::) :D................wouldnt cooling be the first of your worries ? :-/
Title: Re: Lotus Carlton today
Post by: TheBoy on 24 April 2011, 20:03:05
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you sure ? ::) :D................wouldnt cooling be the first of your worries ? :-/
Potentially, though done properly, this would be modified as required
Title: Re: Lotus Carlton today
Post by: albitz on 24 April 2011, 20:17:49
Always had the impression that there wasnt much point tuning the v6, as it was difficult to get much more power from it. :-/
Title: Re: Lotus Carlton today
Post by: Andy B on 24 April 2011, 20:51:57
Quote
Always had the impression that there wasn't much point tuning the v6, as it .......
would likely break or overheat or spew coolant or leak oil .............   ::) ::) ::) ::)
Title: Re: Lotus Carlton today
Post by: Geobond on 24 April 2011, 22:34:20
fantastic car but im topping the mig (caddy catera) and got 2 of em 98 model v6 and a 2.5 td miggy with bm engine and my ultimate beast my caddy seville sts 4.6 northstar :-) ;)
Title: Re: Lotus Carlton today
Post by: TheBoy on 25 April 2011, 09:46:43
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Quote
Always had the impression that there wasn't much point tuning the v6, as it .......
would likely break or overheat or spew coolant or leak oil .............   ::) ::) ::) ::)
And the 3.6 never spews oil and coolant from its HG, does it.......  ;)

If there was the desire by the manufacturer, or a *proper* tuning company (ie, not the likes of the retards at Courtney and similar), I'm sure both S6 and V6 could be encouraged to (realatively) reliably give that sort of power.  Downside of V6, not sure how much you could increase the cc with that block, though it would need a new crank anyway....


...but probably cheaper to through an off-the-shelf v8 in :D :D :D
Title: Re: Lotus Carlton today
Post by: Andy B on 25 April 2011, 09:51:04
Quote
....
And the 3.6 never spews oil and coolant from its HG, does it.......  ;)
 ....

only after about 150 000 miles  ;)
Title: Re: Lotus Carlton today
Post by: TheBoy on 25 April 2011, 11:42:42
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Quote
....
And the 3.6 never spews oil and coolant from its HG, does it.......  ;)
 ....

only after about 150 000 miles before it pops its 3rd ;)
Fixed that for you ;D
Title: Re: Lotus Carlton today
Post by: Andy B on 25 April 2011, 11:51:30
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Quote
Quote
....
And the 3.6 never spews oil and coolant from its HG, does it.......  ;)
 ....

only after about 150 000 miles before it pops its 3rd ;)
Fixed that for you ;D

not in the case of my car, it went within a couple of hundred miles after turning 150k, but that was at a time when I could get my car in my garage to work on it.
Title: Re: Lotus Carlton today
Post by: omegadan67 on 25 April 2011, 11:55:30
Quote
Always had the impression that there wasnt much point tuning the v6, as it was difficult to get much more power from it. :-/

done properly like the senator straight 6 anything is do able if you free the breathing side air and exhaust,port and polish the heads sort the cams  etc alot of money for maybe 50bhp
Title: Re: Lotus Carlton today
Post by: omegadan67 on 25 April 2011, 12:08:16
Quote
Quote
Quote
Always had the impression that there wasn't much point tuning the v6, as it .......
would likely break or overheat or spew coolant or leak oil .............   ::) ::) ::) ::)
And the 3.6 never spews oil and coolant from its HG, does it.......  ;)

If there was the desire by the manufacturer, or a *proper* tuning company (ie, not the likes of the retards at Courtney and similar), I'm sure both S6 and V6 could be encouraged to (realatively) reliably give that sort of power.  Downside of V6, not sure how much you could increase the cc with that block, though it would need a new crank anyway....


...but probably cheaper to through an off-the-shelf v8 in :D :D :D


the carlton engine was a total rebuild from the crank and block up built and tuned by lotus enginering the brief was to make the fastest saloon car of its time,and it was. as i have said before the HG werent the issue it was having to get the engine rebuilt after 90,000 miles and the abuse the car got at the hands of thier owners.

this car has stood the test of time what other standard production car of its era could do 0 to 60 in 5.5 seconds 0-120 in about 9-10 seconds hit 177 mph and yet be  driven every day with out worry of anything breaking, for £50 000.
Title: Re: Lotus Carlton today
Post by: TheBoy on 25 April 2011, 15:11:47
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Quote
Quote
Quote
....
And the 3.6 never spews oil and coolant from its HG, does it.......  ;)
 ....

only after about 150 000 miles before it pops its 3rd ;)
Fixed that for you ;D

not in the case of my car, it went within a couple of hundred miles after turning 150k, but that was at a time when I could get my car in my garage to work on it.
Was yours a 3.6 :o. ;)
Title: Re: Lotus Carlton today
Post by: Andy B on 25 April 2011, 15:33:10
Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
....
And the 3.6 never spews oil and coolant from its HG, does it.......  ;)
 ....

only after about 150 000 miles before it pops its 3rd ;)
Fixed that for you ;D

not in the case of my car, it went within a couple of hundred miles after turning 150k, but that was at a time when I could get my car in my garage to work on it.
Was yours a 3.6 :o. ;)

My straight six failed at 150k  :P
Title: Re: Lotus Carlton today
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 25 April 2011, 21:34:46
Cooling on the V6 improved in 1998....sadly it weakened the head gasket though  ;D
Title: Re: Lotus Carlton today
Post by: Broomies Mate on 25 April 2011, 23:38:29
'Swindon' apparently used to get 400BHP from the X30XE (Supercharged) used on Elise conversions.

Now though use the 2.8 Turbo engine from GM and modify that instead.

As said in the thread previously, if you spend enough money, you can get whatever gains you desire from any engine (within the limits of reason).
Title: Re: Lotus Carlton today
Post by: Del Boy on 26 April 2011, 09:03:52
I wonder what a 2.8 V6 Turbo would go like in an Omega, if you use the 325 BHP engine from the insignia as a base, you can change the intercooler get it remapped and there's 400 horses for you :) I'm going to stand by the fact the Lotus Carlton was the best idea anyone ever had, and I think it's way better than any other Vauxhall, I'd have one over anything. I wouldn't go for a VXR8 or a Monaro because I think with 6.2 litres 414 BHP is t enough, much prefer an Insignia VXR or a Lotus Carlton  8-) 8-) 8-)
Title: Re: Lotus Carlton today
Post by: Andy B on 26 April 2011, 09:11:10
Quote
.....
I'm going to stand by the fact the Lotus Carlton was the best idea anyone ever had, and  .....

It certainly upset the apple cart & really upset Ferrari. How many cars have had a mention in Parliament?  :y :y :y Jasper Carrot said ....
"A four door family saloon? Who's the family - Mr and Mrs Fittpaldi?"
Title: Re: Lotus Carlton today
Post by: feeutfo on 26 April 2011, 11:05:39
Vxr8 v l carlton is now on 5th gear.
Title: Re: Lotus Carlton today
Post by: feeutfo on 26 April 2011, 11:06:32
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Vxr8 v l carlton is now on 5th gear.
On Dave.
Title: Re: Lotus Carlton today
Post by: feeutfo on 26 April 2011, 11:09:35
Vxr8 lapped 1.5 seconds faster.  :)
Title: Re: Lotus Carlton today
Post by: Omegatoy on 26 April 2011, 19:06:56
brilliant car nuff said ;D and you all  know why!! :y
however who remembers the adverts for the L.c.?

can you get a better line than,

now you know why so many porsches and ferrari,s are bright red? ;D ;D
Title: Re: Lotus Carlton today
Post by: Andy B on 26 April 2011, 19:16:21
Quote
.....
now you know why so many porsches and ferrari,s are bright red? ;D ;D

Brilliant!!  :y :y :y :y

Title: Re: Lotus Carlton today
Post by: 2woody on 28 April 2011, 15:03:39
L-C had some very subtle suspension mods done to improve the handling, and yes it does handle better than an Omega, despite controlling an extra 150 bhp.

It's the typical Lotus stuff that lets it down, coolant circulation and fuel injection for example, where they went totally off the radar.

In comparison, the V8 engined cars are totally different, feeling completely solid to drive.
Title: Re: Lotus Carlton today
Post by: omegadan67 on 28 April 2011, 18:17:13
Quote
L-C had some very subtle suspension mods done to improve the handling, and yes it does handle better than an Omega, despite controlling an extra 150 bhp.

It's the typical Lotus stuff that lets it down, coolant circulation and fuel injection for example, where they went totally off the radar.

In comparison, the V8 engined cars are totally different, feeling completely solid to drive.

coolant circulation or fuel injection are not typical lotus stuff, Lotus's reputation was/is how a car handles and always has been how it goes was an after thought.

Colin Chapman was the greatest car Technician of our time his motto was always speed through lightness and handling was more important to him than outright speed.

the lotus carlton/omega was a masterclass on the princapals of that mantra deverstating in the right hands and enviroments docile at all other times with predictable handling even on the limits.

Having owned both a lotus carlton and lotus omega
both right hand drive for some 60,000 miles conbined i never had fuel inj or coolant problems even after 160 mph autoban cruises.

the best performance car i have ever owned bar none

and ive owned a fair few
evo 6 ayc
scooby 22b sti
cosworths of all variants
lamborgini jalpa
porsche 928 s4
porsche 993 911 carrera 4
to name but a few

and as far as i know lotus never did a v8 carlton/omega.
Title: Re: Lotus Carlton today
Post by: feeutfo on 28 April 2011, 20:54:07
Quote
Quote
L-C had some very subtle suspension mods done to improve the handling, and yes it does handle better than an Omega, despite controlling an extra 150 bhp.

It's the typical Lotus stuff that lets it down, coolant circulation and fuel injection for example, where they went totally off the radar.

In comparison, the V8 engined cars are totally different, feeling completely solid to drive.

coolant circulation or fuel injection are not typical lotus stuff, Lotus's reputation was/is how a car handles and always has been how it goes was an after thought.

Colin Chapman was the greatest car Technician of our time his motto was always speed through lightness and handling was more important to him than outright speed.

the lotus carlton/omega was a masterclass on the princapals of that mantra deverstating in the right hands and enviroments docile at all other times with predictable handling even on the limits.

Having owned both a lotus carlton and lotus omega
both right hand drive for some 60,000 miles conbined i never had fuel inj or coolant problems even after 160 mph autoban cruises.

the best performance car i have ever owned bar none

and ive owned a fair few
evo 6 ayc
scooby 22b sti
cosworths of all variants
lamborgini jalpa
porsche 928 s4
porsche 993 911 carrera 4
to name but a few

and as far as i know lotus never did a v8 carlton/omega.
No they didn't, but 2woody does own a v8 commodore and a Loti Carlton of some sort I believe, so is in apposition to make a comparison between the similarly sprung pair.

As a point made earlier though, the age of the Carlton was showing compared to my brand new suspension set up, on a section with hump back bridges tight consecutive 30-40mph bends and a round about. 8-). I let him go before the next straight though.  :-[.  ;D.  :-X
Title: Re: Lotus Carlton today
Post by: MV6Matt on 29 April 2011, 07:02:37
Quote
Quote
Quote
Always had the impression that there wasn't much point tuning the v6, as it .......
would likely break or overheat or spew coolant or leak oil .............   ::) ::) ::) ::)
And the 3.6 never spews oil and coolant from its HG, does it.......  ;)

If there was the desire by the manufacturer, or a *proper* tuning company (ie, not the likes of the retards at Courtney and similar), I'm sure both S6 and V6 could be encouraged to (realatively) reliably give that sort of power.  Downside of V6, not sure how much you could increase the cc with that block, though it would need a new crank anyway....


...but probably cheaper to through an off-the-shelf v8 in :D :D :D


I'm intrigued, what makes Courtenay retarded? :-?

Who are *proper* tuning companies? :-?

Curiouser and curiouser............... ::)
Title: Re: Lotus Carlton today
Post by: MV6Matt on 29 April 2011, 07:09:47
@ 2woody

As some one suggested, how easy would it be to put the 2.8T V6 in an Omega? What gear box would work?

Alternatively, (with ref to the Diesel thread on this board), would it be easy to put in one of the 1.9 DTI Vectra/Signum lumps in (very tunable I hear)?

Interested to know any thoughts etc

How was the trip abroad?

Matthew
Title: Re: Lotus Carlton today
Post by: feeutfo on 29 April 2011, 08:43:25
Quote
@ 2woody

As some one suggested, how easy would it be to put the 2.8T V6 in an Omega? What gear box would work?

Alternatively, (with ref to the Diesel thread on this board), would it be easy to put in one of the 1.9 DTI Vectra/Signum lumps in (very tunable I hear)?

Interested to know any thoughts etc

How was the trip abroad?

Matthew
If changing lumps, mayas well be a big lump, like an Ls1 v8? As gm nearly did themselves.

But I didn't realize the Saab tubo v6 only runs 1 turbo off 1 bank. Might make istalation easier  :-/
Title: Re: Lotus Carlton today
Post by: 2woody on 02 May 2011, 23:57:39
to all....

yes I own both a Lotus Carlton and now two Holden Commodores - both completely different approaches to the same thing. The Holdens give me the impression that they'll never break no matter what I could do to them, whereby the Lotus is usually broken, but no less good for it - I bought it because it is still the boss.

regarding the Saab engine, if it's still on the same 54degree architecture, then it'll fit quite easily, I'm pretty sure the diesel will, too. ( but it is still a diesel, mind ).

probably the best perfrmance car I've owned was the Honda NS-X - and I don't even like mid-engined cars. Go figure.

trip abroad was significantly better than I anticipated - no early-hours extraction by shadowy figures in a Hercules for starters. But seriously, that part of the world is actually fascinating to go to and I'd recommend it, but maybe only once. And it's stacked with Chevy Lumina SS's (hint Chris)
Title: Re: Lotus Carlton today
Post by: MV6Matt on 03 May 2011, 09:34:59
Hi Stuart,
Glad you're home and no shodowy figures or Hercules!

Is the 2.8T V6  'still on the same 54 degree architecture' as you put it?
Would an existing Gearbox work without too much argy-bargy on this engine?

Any rain in Northumberland?

Matthew
Title: Re: Lotus Carlton today
Post by: Kevin Wood on 03 May 2011, 09:40:15
I think the Saab 2.8t is a GM LP9 - so ally block and a 60 degree Vee angle.

You can bet they mounted the turbo under one of the heads which means it'll be too wide without some major surgery to the manifolds, etc. :(

Kevin
Title: Re: Lotus Carlton today
Post by: MV6Matt on 03 May 2011, 09:47:31
Quote
I think the Saab 2.8t is a GM LP9 - so ally block and a 60 degree Vee angle.

You can bet they mounted the turbo under one of the heads which means it'll be too wide without some major surgery to the manifolds, etc. :(Kevin

Yup, probably! They'd have to make it difficult wouldn't they?

Matthew
Title: Re: Lotus Carlton today
Post by: feeutfo on 03 May 2011, 09:57:17
Guessing exhausts will have to made anyway for rear wheel drive, addressing the turbo position then....?
Title: Re: Lotus Carlton today
Post by: feeutfo on 03 May 2011, 10:08:08
But as said preveiously, what does the Saab turbo put out? 290bhp?   :-/ is it worth the agro and extra expense of fitting a front wheel drive lump in a rear wheel drive car? For a mere 70 bhp?

Ls1 your looking at 350 to 390 depending on exhaust restrictions. A much better gain for the agro.  :)
Title: Re: Lotus Carlton today
Post by: 2woody on 03 May 2011, 11:41:09
looks like it's probably a "no" on the 2.8 engine.

or at least a "not easily".
Title: Re: Lotus Carlton today
Post by: MV6Matt on 03 May 2011, 12:10:22
Quote
looks like it's probably a "no" on the 2.8 engine.

or at least a "not easily".

Fair enough!
So it's either the muscle of the V8 (yum! yum!)
or the MPG of the deisel..........

(rummages around for his bank robbers outfit............)

Matthew ;)
Title: Re: Lotus Carlton today
Post by: 2woody on 04 May 2011, 09:21:22
there's also the Saab 2.3 option.

bags of awailable horsepower and bolts straight to the gearbox you already have.
Title: Re: Lotus Carlton today
Post by: Kevin Wood on 04 May 2011, 09:38:19
Quote
there's also the Saab 2.3 option.

bags of awailable horsepower and bolts straight to the gearbox you already have.

Not a bad plan, if you can get over the stigma of having a 4 pot. ;D

There'll certainly be a lot more room around it.
Title: Re: Lotus Carlton today
Post by: MV6Matt on 04 May 2011, 15:01:10
Quote
there's also the Saab 2.3 option.

bags of awailable horsepower and bolts straight to the gearbox you already have.

Now I could go for that! HHmmmm...... ::)
Title: Re: Lotus Carlton today
Post by: feeutfo on 04 May 2011, 23:33:52
Quote
Quote
there's also the Saab 2.3 option.

bags of awailable horsepower and bolts straight to the gearbox you already have.

Now I could go for that! HHmmmm...... ::)
Still only two thirds half an engine though.... ;)  ;D
Title: Re: Lotus Carlton today
Post by: 05omegav6 on 05 May 2011, 01:37:14
Quote
You can bet they mounted the turbo under one of the heads which means it'll be too wide without some major surgery to the manifolds, etc.


Vectra c 2.8t has the turbo at the 'back' of the engine over the gear box. doesn't really lend itself to a rwd conversion without some serious plumbing. :-/

For the diseasalists, the 3.0 v6 cdti lump may be worth a look, although not sure where the turbo(s) live on that.  :-/

 :y
Title: Re: Lotus Carlton today
Post by: MV6Matt on 06 May 2011, 07:03:26
Quote
Quote
Quote
there's also the Saab 2.3 option.

bags of awailable horsepower and bolts straight to the gearbox you already have.

Now I could go for that! HHmmmm...... ::)
Still only two thirds half an engine though.... ;)  ;D

Yup, looks rather odd - 4 pots in a row and nowt else around! :-?
As someone also pointed out , lots of room too!
However, With people able to get 300+ out of them for not too much effort, it's quite a decent conversion to consider..........

As it goes, I'm very happy with the V6 so this sort of conversion would have be for another (as yet unowned!) car.......... ::) :P :y
Matthew