Omega Owners Forum

Chat Area => General Car Chat => Topic started by: Mr Skrunts on 16 July 2011, 23:32:17

Title: Car Spraying ?
Post by: Mr Skrunts on 16 July 2011, 23:32:17
Thinking of setting up a small unit to restore a couple of cars I have my eye on, Then decided to think a bit wider then just my own restoration as one of the cars will become quite involved and may take a year or so to do.

Started looking into taking on extra work to cover overheads.  One of the ideas is to get a decent compressor to do some accident repair work on some easy damaged repairables, but also dotake on full resprays.

Thing is I dont know where to start on envirmental and legal issues with setting up a spray shop/unit.

Any help would be appreciated.   :y
Title: Re: Car Spraying ?
Post by: Ken T on 16 July 2011, 23:50:31
Purely from an amateur point of view, its hard work. I did mine outside, however the sunlight made it hard to see where I had previously sprayed so I got Tiger Stripes !.

A well lit booth is essential. I think with the 2 pack stuff you need breathing apparatus, and the booth needs to filter the air leaving. Also gun cleaning needs to be done in controlled conditions, eg sealed chamber all solvents trapped and disposed of correctly, etc.

That's just what I have read, probably a lot more to it. 

Ken
Title: Re: Car Spraying ?
Post by: cem_devecioglu on 17 July 2011, 12:08:10
you will need a big compressor at least 300 litre (the bigger the better as pressure drop on the gun highly effects paint quality) or you will have stop and wait for the compressor to fill ..

there are dual heads , and they work with higher industry voltage , so you will have to make some arrangements for it..

a high quality high pressure gravity fed hvlp gun.. and they are really expensive..

and for the booth..very important as dust creates real problems and destroys paint job..

must have good lighting system.. heater blowers and ventilation.. some generators which must handle at least half an hour.. (if you are about to start applying laquer -critical point- you cant stop painting simply) 20 kva will be adequate imo..

and if you decide to start a shop, you must be able to mix colors so you will need a color machine (which I dont know about their details) you need to talk to paint firms.. but standox and glassurit are most famous ..
Title: Re: Car Spraying ?
Post by: Omegatoy on 17 July 2011, 14:41:05
dont bother!! the legal aspect of setting up the fitrations system is somewhere around ten grands worth and the equipment is another 30grand,
god wait a minute that was for 2k paint!!
if you go water based its probably slightly different, BUT even with water based paint you have to use slovent based laquer, so guessing it would be the same.
far better to just use it for yourself, and make you booth out of plastic sheeting in  a seperate corner of the shop where you can control the dust by putting water on the floor, and dooing the prep elsewhere in the unit
Title: Re: Car Spraying ?
Post by: Mr Skrunts on 17 July 2011, 18:27:09
Equipment as in compressor and spray guns is not a problem, I have access to a 300 litre plus compressor, the guy doing the spray work has all his own equipment and is fully trained, but he has only ever worked for garages and there fore took it as said they were up to date on rules and regs.  Being my own/our place if it goes forward as a joint venture we just dont want to break any rules.

If a reasonable ammount of work came in then an investment in a decent spray booth would not be an issue.
Title: Re: Car Spraying ?
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 17 July 2011, 18:44:13
Go for it Skrunts. In my opinion it is better to regret things that you did ......rather than regret things that you didn't do :y :y.
Title: Re: Car Spraying ?
Post by: Mr Skrunts on 17 July 2011, 19:06:55
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Go for it Skrunts. In my opinion it is better to regret things that you did ......rather than regret things that you didn't do :y :y.


True, ready for trying something different as well.
Title: Re: Car Spraying ?
Post by: Field Marshal Dr. Opti on 17 July 2011, 19:24:40
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Go for it Skrunts. In my opinion it is better to regret things that you did ......rather than regret things that you didn't do :y :y.


True, ready for trying something different as well.


How is Mrs Skrunts?
Title: Re: Car Spraying ?
Post by: Mr Skrunts on 17 July 2011, 20:35:12
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Quote
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Go for it Skrunts. In my opinion it is better to regret things that you did ......rather than regret things that you didn't do :y :y.


True, ready for trying something different as well.


How is Mrs Skrunts?


She's stressed, bless her, work related though, not my fault (for once ::))
Title: Re: Car Spraying ?
Post by: cem_devecioglu on 17 July 2011, 21:31:47
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Go for it Skrunts. In my opinion it is better to regret things that you did ......rather than regret things that you didn't do :y :y.

wise words.. and very true :y :y :y
Title: Re: Car Spraying ?
Post by: henryd on 17 July 2011, 22:20:47
Have a read here mr Skrunts     http://www.hse.gov.uk/coshh/industry/mvr.htm
Title: Re: Car Spraying ?
Post by: Sipey on 17 July 2011, 22:35:39
Hi Mr Skrunts,

I set up my own outfit last year and so far the investment is at £65k and I am nowhere near where I want to be.

Things you will need are:

Workshop - minimum of 1,500 square feet and approval to spray cars in there - this is not easy to get if it is not already being used as a spray shop.

You need an area to strip and fit, an area to repair and prep and a seperate area to paint.
3 phase compressor with dryer.
Spray guns, vacuum DA's, vacuum sanding blocks, vacuum masks
Pin puller, sliding hammer, welder (metal one and plastic one), shrinker, jacks, ramp
Mixing scheme - you can start off with a mimimix.
If you use less than 2 ton of paint a year then you can stay solvent, anymore you need to use water.
Spray booth - spray and bake ideally but you can use heat lamps.
Tressels and lots of them.
Gun wash cabinet.
Consumeables  ie masking tape, masking paper, sheeting, sanding disks and strips, thinners, hardeners, gun wash, fillers, sealer, resins, glues, welding rods/wires (plastic and metal)
Fire proof cabinets to keep flammables in
Extraction systems - both dust and vapour
All manor of insurances.

Once you have all of that you need to make sure you can pull enough work in consistently to make it viable. When working with insurance companies be prepared to wait a minimum of 3 months to be paid for any work you do, I still have invoices outstanding from February.

PM me if you want to chat further mate.

Mark
Title: Re: Car Spraying ?
Post by: tigers_gonads on 17 July 2011, 23:40:34
Go for it skrunts  :y :y

I'm sure if you do a good job, you will get work off the lads and lasses on here  :y

If you do, good luck  :)
Title: Re: Car Spraying ?
Post by: Vamps on 18 July 2011, 00:01:23
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Hi Mr Skrunts,

I set up my own outfit last year and so far the investment is at £65k and I am nowhere near where I want to be.

Things you will need are:

Workshop - minimum of 1,500 square feet and approval to spray cars in there - this is not easy to get if it is not already being used as a spray shop.

You need an area to strip and fit, an area to repair and prep and a seperate area to paint.
3 phase compressor with dryer.
Spray guns, vacuum DA's, vacuum sanding blocks, vacuum masks
Pin puller, sliding hammer, welder (metal one and plastic one), shrinker, jacks, ramp
Mixing scheme - you can start off with a mimimix.
If you use less than 2 ton of paint a year then you can stay solvent, anymore you need to use water.
Spray booth - spray and bake ideally but you can use heat lamps.
Tressels and lots of them.
Gun wash cabinet.
Consumeables  ie masking tape, masking paper, sheeting, sanding disks and strips, thinners, hardeners, gun wash, fillers, sealer, resins, glues, welding rods/wires (plastic and metal)
Fire proof cabinets to keep flammables in
Extraction systems - both dust and vapour
All manor of insurances.

Once you have all of that you need to make sure you can pull enough work in consistently to make it viable. When working with insurance companies be prepared to wait a minimum of 3 months to be paid for any work you do, I still have invoices outstanding from February.

PM me if you want to chat further mate.

Mark

Well my local chap has little of that and does work for the local main Ford dealer, he did some work for me and it was spot on...... :y :y

He, like me and others were painting with 2 pac in the 80's now h&s seems to have gone mad..... ::) ::) ::)

I have a stock of cellulose paint in old skool  Ford colours....... :-X
Title: Re: Car Spraying ?
Post by: Sipey on 18 July 2011, 00:46:05
I wouldn't doubt that he is but then it all depends on how much you wish to earn. If you can earn enough turning 1 or 2 cars a week then go for it. If not, then you need space and equipment.

Insurance, safe storage and disposal of chemicals as well as having permission to store it in the first place is still required, as is proper and safe extraction.
Title: Re: Car Spraying ?
Post by: Mr Skrunts on 18 July 2011, 01:20:35
There is no limit to what we could do.

My mate allready has all his own spray tackle, we heard of a unit and if still available allready has a 4 post ramp and large compressor in it.  Even if the unit is bare I have been told it may hold 12 cars at a push.

1st car we have aquired needs no paint and has been stored for years and if what we are led to believe once all paper work is found may well be quite a collectable car.

Also have an interest in a very low mileage turbo diesal rover and yet again needs no paint work as such, seems booth cars need a bit of TLC, a good fettling and an MOT.

3rd car I have my eyes will be a year long restoration job, which will have plenty of pics and vids taken to show the before, during and after the rebuild.  Either way, the car will be worth more stripped than we pay for it if the rebuild gets the better of us.

Have been offered so much and turned it away we have now decided to have a crack at it.

We can get a few service contracts (Possibly from old contacts between us - mainly taxi companies)

Main set up is for us to restore our own cars at 1st, with a weekly income for overheads and beer stamps, as things establish the resoration may well become a part time thing.

Either way, it needs to be fun and enjoyable and end each month in the black rather than the red.
Title: Re: Car Spraying ?
Post by: Sipey on 18 July 2011, 01:46:30
I started on the same grounds, turned down loads of work over the years so gave it a crack. You soon realise though that all that work you had turned away needs to happen consistently month, after month and people actually need to turn up when they say they will.

Be as diverse as possible, I am predominently an Auto Refinisher so concentrate on anything bodywork, so valeting through detailing, PDR , SMART repairs, accident repair, custom paint, restoration and wheel refurbs.

However, by having powder coating facilities for the wheels I also do bike frames, swing arms etc, recondition tools for a local tool merchant as well as various other bits. Also, having tyre machines I also supply and fit tyres as well as take on service work and punt MOT's through one of the garages I do bodywork for.

Happy to share what I have gone through over the last year, what's worked and what hasnt. I am sure you appreciate the amount of work it takes to get such a venture off the ground and the fun can sometimes be replaced with some stress and frustration.


Title: Re: Car Spraying ?
Post by: Bionic on 18 July 2011, 06:43:27
As I have tried it a few times I can honestly say that you need to have a vast amount of readily available funds behind you cos you will have many more rainy days than sunny ones until you get really well astablished and have a reliable customer base.
You also must make sure you register it and pay your taxes cos any disatsified customer will lay you in.
Then of course there is also the legalities and the never ending forms and inspections from the environmentalists and councils etc.
Honestly m8, if you can afford it just get the unit for yourself until you get done what you need to then get rid or hire it out. You will keep your smooth skin and hair on a lot longer!
 :D
Title: Re: Car Spraying ?
Post by: aaronjb on 18 July 2011, 08:58:39
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I started on the same grounds, turned down loads of work over the years so gave it a crack. You soon realise though that all that work you had turned away needs to happen consistently month, after month and people actually need to turn up when they say they will.

I had that problem when I tried being self employed - after two years of trying to get established (different industry :)) and find regular work that wasn't just people wanting to 'exchange services' I ran out of money..

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Be as diverse as possible, I am predominently an Auto Refinisher so concentrate on anything bodywork, so valeting through detailing, PDR , SMART repairs, accident repair, custom paint, restoration and wheel refurbs.

I can see I'm going to have to remember your name ;) I could probably do with getting some dents fixed and a bumper scuff sorted on the MR2 before I sell it (depending on cost vs. loss at sale), and (if it passes an MOT!) some rust sorting on the Nissan.. and ultimately the next project will need a full paint job. Knowing a powder coater could come in handy, too..

Don't suppose you're in one of the old car-repair units on the Cordwallis Ind. Est. are you?
Title: Re: Car Spraying ?
Post by: Sipey on 18 July 2011, 11:11:51
No mate, I am near St Marks.
Title: Re: Car Spraying ?
Post by: cem_devecioglu on 18 July 2011, 11:14:43
Mr Skrunts,  you can't ;) [smiley=evil.gif]
Title: Re: Car Spraying ?
Post by: aaronjb on 18 July 2011, 11:27:50
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No mate, I am near St Marks.

Ahh, I never did get out that side of town much :) I used to work down Cordwallis though, between a BMW accident repair centre and another accident repair/MOT/etc place.. I did ask the BMW guys about the rust on the Nissan once, they just crinkled their nose and looked like I'd dragged a dog turd in on my feet when I said 'rust'..  ;D
Title: Re: Car Spraying ?
Post by: Mr Skrunts on 18 July 2011, 17:13:19
Thread is going a bit off course, am only doing it as a hobbie to start with. and the main reason for the unit is because of the type of cars we are looking at, overheads for the unit are minimumul and include shared water/electric costs with other units, but would prefer out own meters if there is a rise in bills, rates are included, so the only other major over head is trade insurance.

Mate has all his own equipment and access to an old compressor if he wants it, but heard there was allready a 4 post ramp and compressor.

So to start with I have bought the 1st car, so that will get a 1st class once over and the interior stripped out and valeted.

So either way, restoration plus a weekly cheapie from the auction would cover us and hopefully make a good profit, but there is allways demand for a good quality car service at the right money.

So am happy to stay small at the moment.  :y