Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Car Chat => Topic started by: tidla on 04 September 2011, 20:33:32
-
whats the current /most popular engine choice for kit car builders.
ideally i should imagine its blocks with low weight to high power ratio or is it mostly cheap availability with tuning options?
-
The answer highly depends what kind of kit you're talking about..
Replica cars tend to use engines at least close to the originals, Caterham style cars seem to use anything from large capacity bike engines to Audi 1.8T lumps and even some V8s..
-
if you want to keep the rear wheel drive aspect, i suppose you need a gearbox that will match up..?
audi using a 4x4 box for rear wheel drive?
-
No idea what box was going on the Audi :) It was all in bits when I saw it - they hadn't even finished making the chassis yet :D (I'm sure I've seen it in other cars, though.. it's a decent lump, after all)
-
yes a quick search highlights that it is very tuneable with good reliability/mpg for daily use
-
As much as it pains me to say the Ford Zetec is very good and dirt cheap too. Friend has a westfield with a 1.8 on throttle bodies and that is rapid enough 8-).
-
As much as it pains me to say the Ford Zetec is very good and dirt cheap too. Friend has a westfield with a 1.8 on throttle bodies and that is rapid enough 8-).
Yep. Zetecs are cheap, bullet proof, have plenty of cheap options for RWD drivetrains and lots of tuning options.
The GM C20XE is also a good bet, and will give a little more power at a given state of tune, but they are getting a bit long in the tooth and it's not as easy to find a decent one. They are also more prone to problems, IME, heads going porous, in particular.
The Ford Duratec is a better option than either of the above but finding one and kitting it out with a RWD gearbox will cost more.
Rover K series is very light and can produce very respectable power output. Despite the reputation for HG problems if the cooling system is properly sorted and the engine built with care it's not an issue. I know several people running these at 200+ BHP with total reliability. It tends to need to be kept on the boil, though, especially when tuned.
And so it goes on... Ford Sigma.. 1.4/1.6 Ecotec... Bike engines... Rover V8... American V8s... Really depends what you're looking for.
If it's a fairly lardy car, i.e. Cobra replica, Dax Rush, etc. then engine weight is less important and it'd be rude not to go for a 8 or at least a larget 4 pot tuned or turbocharged.
If it's a light weight car, i.e. Lotus 7 style then a lighter engine will be better, especially if you keep the rest of the car as light as possible, so K series / bike engines are good options.
Bike engines are a hoot on track but can be a swine to live with on the road, so bear in mind your most likely pattern of usage too.
-
Ooh, Kevin, you just reminded me that I haven't boasted here yet ;D
Bought these at the weekend:
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a361/v8cobra/02092011024.jpg)
:D :D
-
Ooh, Kevin, you just reminded me that I haven't boasted here yet ;D
Bought these at the weekend:
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a361/v8cobra/02092011024.jpg)
:D :D
:-* :-* :-* :-* :-*
-
I reckon the 54 degree V6s would be of interest as well
-
If there going on the engine I think they are going on (which I suspect they are looking at the dizzy design) then I hope you have at least stage 3 heads or you wont get any major benefit!
-
Westfield, i believe, are now using the Corsa D VXR Turbo motor with stand alone CanBus. The complete engine package is avaliable from GM Parts Direct.
Andy
-
A friend customer of mine has dropped a vtec lump out of a type R civic in his.
It was pushing out around 220 bhp :)
Talking to him about it last night, apparently he wants more power on it so he is on about strapping a supercharger onto it :o ;D ;D
Don't know what chassis he has :-/
-
A friend customer of mine has dropped a vtec lump out of a type R civic in his.
It was pushing out around 220 bhp :)
Talking to him about it last night, apparently he wants more power on it so he is on about strapping a supercharger onto it :o ;D ;D
Don't know what chassis he has :-/
IMHO, he started out with the wrong engine for forced induction. :-/
-
I saw a Dax a few weeks ago with the 2.8 Turbo Vectra/Saab engine in which had been tuned up to 400 bhp and mated to a Monaro Tremec T5-6 box....that was very rapid!
-
A friend customer of mine has dropped a vtec lump out of a type R civic in his.
It was pushing out around 220 bhp :)
Talking to him about it last night, apparently he wants more power on it so he is on about strapping a supercharger onto it :o ;D ;D
Don't know what chassis he has :-/
IMHO, he started out with the wrong engine for forced induction. :-/
Its not something I know that much about to be honest :-/
Apparently you can get the Ariel Atom with the same upgrade :-/
It's supposed to give another 100 bhp :D
It's definetly a Vtec but I might have got the donor car wrong :-/
I'm going up there for a coffee and to give him a quote for some work on friday morning so i'll have a nosey then :)
-
Yes, Forced Induction = the need to lower static compression as a minimum....plus forged rods etc etc.....basicaly a total engine rebuild.
-
Its not something I know that much about to be honest :-/
Apparently you can get the Ariel Atom with the same upgrade :-/
It's supposed to give another 100 bhp :D
It's definetly a Vtec but I might have got the donor car wrong :-/
I'm going up there for a coffee and to give him a quote for some work on friday morning so i'll have a nosey then :)
Well, the VTEC engines have all been optimised for the maximum power from a naturally aspirated setup, so they are high revving, high compression VVT lumps.
For forced induction you need much lower compression to safely run any significant level of boost, being able to rev it to stellar RPM isn't as important, but the bottom end needs to be strong enough to handle significantly more torque at lower RPM (to an extent these will be conflicting requirements in the design). The VVT setup probably won't be useful for forced induction and the cam profiles probably won't be ideal in the first place.
I'm not an expert on the VTEC engines but a glance at their basic spec. tells me that he'll probably be throwing more away than he's keeping if he does a proper job of supercharging it. Best to sell the engine on for someone else to enjoy and pick something else that's a better starting point, IMHO.
OR... look at where else the formula can be improved (probably more cheaply!)..
Check the intake and exhaust are flowing as freely as they can (I expect a set of throttle bodies and a tuned exhaust might well make that engine sit up and take note if not already fitted).
Check that the gearing is right for the car (with an engine as lairy as the VTEC in a light car, I suspect the average RWD gearbox from a plodder will have very inappropriate gearing).
Lose as much weight from the car as possible, etc. etc.
220BHP really shouldn't feel inadequate in what is presumably a light kit car, so it pays to consider if it's working as well as it could be. ;)
Not trying to pee on his chips or anything, just a few things that I'd be considering before exposing my cheque book to the sort of abuse that he's contemplating. ;)
-
Yes, Forced Induction = the need to lower static compression as a minimum....plus forged rods etc etc.....basicaly a total engine rebuild.
That very much depends on the engine, though.. No idea what the static compression on the VTEC engines is, mind, I presume somewhere around 11.5:1?
The 1ZZ in the MR2 is turbocharged (up to ~12psi) and is otherwise internally standard; standard pistons, rods & bottom end. It's all good for close to 300bhp (flywheel) before a rod will exit the block - from an engine putting out ~140bhp standard..
I presume the Honda engines are more 'fragile', though.
(As for the throttle bodies - the engine should be fully built before they go on; if it's the 390 then stroked, Edelbrock heads etc etc. If I pick up a 428 then I probably won't stroke that but heads etc of course - the cast iron stock heads are only useful as boat anchors!)
-
Right, I must get my ears sorted because I got totally the wrong end of the stick :-[ :-[
The vtec civic was his wifes ::)
He looked into supercharging it but came to the same conclusion as you lads ;) .............. so ............. yesterday, he traded it in for a 60 plate Alfa Guilietta 1.4 turbo with all the toys and 170 bhp :)
His best toy is the kit car.
Its a Dax with a 300 bhp cossie engine :o
He bought it off some bloke who builds them for a living.
Apparently it cost 25 grand too build. (very high spec / showroom finish)
My mate payed 15 grand for it with 1800 miles on the clock.
After spending 20 minutes looking round it, he said do you want to go for a spin in it :y ;D ;D
Of course I can't be rude and say no ;D ;D
So off he went to shift the Alfa of the driveway then he jumps into the PASSENGER SEAT :o :D :D
I've drove some bloody quick cars in my time but nothing like this.
0-60 under 4 seconds (if you can change gear fast enough)
Geared for 150 ish mph
All this was 11 o'clock this morning ............. I still feel like someone has rammed a coat hanger (sideways) in my mouth ;D
I've took some pictures so if I can work out how to put them on, I will :y
edit ............... his day car is a 54 plate 911 ::) :)
-
Ahh. Cossie Turbo Dax Rush. :-* Brings back some memories.
A mate of mine built with a little help from yours truly.
(http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w63/kjwood/Car%20Pictures/dscf0011.jpg)
Used to shift nicely. A great tool for annoying bikers.
Being used to a Westfield, you had to bear in mind how wide the back end was, though. ;D
-
tbh the thing that shocked me was not the power but the ride :o
Over some bumpy roads it changed direction like a go cart but rode just like a sports saloon :o
Steering was bloody heavy at slow speeds so I just went faster ;D ;D
I know we have known each other a long time but I still can't believe he let me drive the thing :o ;D
-
I can't work out how to use this dropbox thingy :-[
If someone would like to pm me a e mail address, i'll send them to you then could you stick them on the forum for us ?
-
I can't work out how to use this dropbox thingy :-[
If someone would like to pm me a e mail address, i'll send them to you then could you stick them on the forum for us ?
try this site
http://photobucket.com/
upload and copy the direct link line.