Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: MikeDundee on 19 July 2007, 18:26:58
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Got it today, the fine that is from Transport for London £120 or 50% if paid within 14 days. This was last Tuesday when i got stuck in the box junction in peckham on my way up to Milton Keynes. Now I know the rules for box junctions but when I entered the box junction the traffic was moving, then subsequently stopped, the vehicles in front of me was a van and in front of that a truck, the van is in the box junction too (2 lanes), in the pics I am stuck at 10:01:46 and in the other pic I have moved from the left hand lane into the right hand side lane out of the box junction at 10:02:06 e.g., when the traffic had started to move again, now this is well under 20 seconds stuck in the box junction, as the other pic shows me in the other lane well past the box junction.
Now unless they want to start putting up stop signs at box junctions in this case they are well out of order >:(
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breakem in Peckham
For stopping in a box
Write a nasty letter
Saying, What a load of tosh..
;D ;D ;D ;D
Diabolical..
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Tut, tut Michael. Your rather irmscher kit didn't get you out of that one did it? :D
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Got it today, the fine that is from Transport for London £120 or 50% if paid within 14 days. This was last Tuesday when i got stuck in the box junction in peckham on my way up to Milton Keynes. Now I know the rules for box junctions but when I entered the box junction the traffic was moving, then subsequently stopped, the vehicles in front of me was a van and in front of that a truck, the van is in the box junction too (2 lanes), in the pics I am stuck at 10:01:46 and in the other pic I have moved from the left hand lane into the right hand side lane out of the box junction at 10:02:06 e.g., when the traffic had started to move again, now this is well under 20 seconds stuck in the box junction, as the other pic shows me in the other lane well past the box junction.
Now unless they want to start putting up stop signs at box junctions in this case they are well out of order >:(
These boxes can cause probs but unfortunatly the pillocks that design them and other traffic stoppers BUS LANES, sit in offices all day thinking on how to bring city centres to a halt, Newport is not a large city but all these stupid 3 lane roundabouts that go into 2 lanes, bus lanes that are hardly used by buses, speed ramps that are made to rip off low cars exhaust, traffic lights on roundabouts have caused a grid lock at peak times, before all these mods there was NEVER a grid lock, it aint the amount of cars, its all the traffic calming systems and knobheads that think of them.
Sorry to here about your fine mate.
>:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
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how fast was the moving traffic?
when I get to box junctions, I just dont enter the box junction at all, much to the annoyance of whoever's behind me, unless there's a car sized gap on the exit side of it, in my first year of driving I had a couple of mishaps with being too keen to get through junctions and fell foul to the slow driver in front who left me blocking a junction, thankfully bever got fined tho
bad luck mate, where was the pic taken from? CCTV?
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I can assure you I am appealing and will not be paying the fine, by hook or by crook, as i amnot at fault here. those cameras only take pics of stationery cars, so i am told ::)...so if I had entered the box, when the van in front was stuck at the other side, he/she should also have a fine, but that was not the case >:(..F****n big bro...beurocratic B*GG*rs, not even any signs warning of box junction cameras, and to top that there were no buses attempting to enter the entrance, to which i was blocking through no fault of my own >:(...as that flter lane is in the pic also.
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Post the pics - we can have another poll ...
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Fight Mike - and Win!!!!
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Say it was me. ;D
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OK then heres the pics I got excuse the quality, as i took these from the pics in the charge notice (avatar size).
This is the first pic taken at 10:01:46
(http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k65/mickdundee_01/2007_0719baddaysjuly20070033.jpg)
This is the second pic taken at 10:02:06, after leaving the box and going into the right hand side lane further up.
(http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k65/mickdundee_01/2007_0719baddaysjuly20070032.jpg)
this is the kids, they thought it was hilarious ;D ;D ;D
(http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k65/mickdundee_01/2007_0719baddaysjuly20070016.jpg)
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Hmmm....this is a difficult one......but in Swindon I know the yellow boxes and dont move into them unless the exit is clear.....mostly....sometimes i get i wrong...and same as you Mike...exit is full.....trick i do then is....is nearly stop....then creep forward very very slowly....you havent stopped so no offence commited...and just pray the exit clears before you get there :y
Doesnt help this time around......but may in the future :y
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Hmmm....this is a difficult one......but in Swindon I know the yellow boxes and dont move into them unless the exit is clear.....mostly....sometimes i get i wrong...and same as you Mike...exit is full.....trick i do then is....is nearly stop....then creep forward very very slowly....you havent stopped so no offence commited...and just pray the exit clears before you get there :y
Doesnt help this time around......but may in the future :y
Yes i know what you mean and thats what i normally do, BUT THE TRAFFIC WAS MOVING UNTIL WHERE I GOT STUCK >:(
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Hmmm....this is a difficult one......but in Swindon I know the yellow boxes and dont move into them unless the exit is clear.....mostly....sometimes i get i wrong...and same as you Mike...exit is full.....trick i do then is....is nearly stop....then creep forward very very slowly....you havent stopped so no offence commited...and just pray the exit clears before you get there :y
Doesnt help this time around......but may in the future :y
Yes i know what you mean and thats what i normally do, BUT THE TRAFFIC WAS MOVING UNTIL WHERE I GOT STUCK >:(
OK OK dont SHOUT at me ;D
But im sure you can do 1cm/hr....whack the brakes on quick....and very slowly creep forward :y
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Send em the picture of the girls. They couldn't possibly send you to prison after that ;D ;D ;D
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Its not been a good week for you then Mike :(
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i see no actual obstructed traffic tho, and a 20 second time window? fight to win!!
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Hmmm....this is a difficult one......but in Swindon I know the yellow boxes and dont move into them unless the exit is clear.....mostly....sometimes i get i wrong...and same as you Mike...exit is full.....trick i do then is....is nearly stop....then creep forward very very slowly....you havent stopped so no offence commited...and just pray the exit clears before you get there :y
Doesnt help this time around......but may in the future :y
Yes i know what you mean and thats what i normally do, BUT THE TRAFFIC WAS MOVING UNTIL WHERE I GOT STUCK >:(
OK OK dont SHOUT at me ;D
But im sure you can do 1cm/hr....whack the brakes on quick....and very slowly creep forward :y
Was'nt intentional, just forgot to take the caps lock off ;)
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Its not been a good week for you then Mike :(
Well could've been better :-?
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how fast was the moving traffic?
when I get to box junctions, I just dont enter the box junction at all, much to the annoyance of whoever's behind me, unless there's a car sized gap on the exit side of it, in my first year of driving I had a couple of mishaps with being too keen to get through junctions and fell foul to the slow driver in front who left me blocking a junction, thankfully bever got fined tho
bad luck mate, where was the pic taken from? CCTV?
Traffic was moving at about 10 miles an hr, its always slow there during the day, unless your early in the morning, and to be honest, mostly tend not to go that way, and use the old kent road instead. CCTV was very high up and a very big lamp post.
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Hi the highways code does state, never enter a yellow box unless the exit is clear, but i must admit i
never hear of anyone getting caught out, money grabbing bast"%&s.
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Hi mike,got done for the same last year in high holborn, central london,appealed but got nowwhere,all they replied was you dont enter the box area untill the exit is clear,also a pal was done for entry into said area even though he was NOT STOPPED AT ANY TIME,but still got done for entering without clear exit ahead. >:(
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Hi mike,got done for the same last year in high holborn, central london,appealed but got nowwhere,all they replied was you dont enter the box area untill the exit is clear,also a pal was done for entry into said area even though he was NOT STOPPED AT ANY TIME,but still got done for entering without clear exit ahead. >:(
Time for a stand. Your pal should have taken it to court, we need to jam the court system with this nonsence!
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Hi mike,got done for the same last year in high holborn, central london,appealed but got nowwhere,all they replied was you dont enter the box area untill the exit is clear,also a pal was done for entry into said area even though he was NOT STOPPED AT ANY TIME,but still got done for entering without clear exit ahead. >:(
Time for a stand. Your pal should have taken it to court, we need to jam the court system with this nonsence!
:y I agree, interesting to know whether the van in front of me got fined also as the van was still in the box too, anyway my appeal has been sent in today, I see this becoming very interesting e.g., adjudication? don't know what the process is for appeals against TFL?
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See if Broocie is on line here for some tips with the appeal http://www.pepipoo.com/ :y
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Hi
I am a magistrate. I can tell you that you will not win this appeal quite simply because of the fact that you must not ENTER any box junction unless your exit is clear. Your defence that the van suddenly stopped only goes to reinforce the fact that you entered this box without ensuring your path through was clear.
The highway code is absolutely clear on the rules regarding box junctions and your only cause for appeal would be if your vehicle broke down with a sudden and catastrophic result, disabling your vehicle immediatley and rendering it immobile. As you drive a Vauxhall Omega, this would not be acceptable defence as the model of car is doomed to this very event at somepoint.
Appeal if you wish, but you are wasting your time.
I hope this is of some help to you.
love
The very honourable Angela Rippemoff, QC.
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Hi
I am a magistrate. I can tell you that you will not win this appeal quite simply because of the fact that you must not ENTER any box junction unless your exit is clear. Your defence that the van suddenly stopped only goes to reinforce the fact that you entered this box without ensuring your path through was clear.
The highway code is absolutely clear on the rules regarding box junctions and your only cause for appeal would be if your vehicle broke down with a sudden and catastrophic result, disabling your vehicle immediatley and rendering it immobile. As you drive a Vauxhall Omega, this would not be acceptable defence as the model of car is doomed to this very event at somepoint.
Appeal if you wish, but you are wasting your time.
I hope this is of some help to you.
love
The very honourable Angela Rippemoff, QC.
Sounds like your crank sensor went then Mike. Known fault on an Omega :y
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Hi
I am a magistrate. I can tell you that you will not win this appeal quite simply because of the fact that you must not ENTER any box junction unless your exit is clear. Your defence that the van suddenly stopped only goes to reinforce the fact that you entered this box without ensuring your path through was clear.
The highway code is absolutely clear on the rules regarding box junctions and your only cause for appeal would be if your vehicle broke down with a sudden and catastrophic result, disabling your vehicle immediatley and rendering it immobile. As you drive a Vauxhall Omega, this would not be acceptable defence as the model of car is doomed to this very event at somepoint.
Appeal if you wish, but you are wasting your time.
I hope this is of some help to you.
love
The very honourable Angela Rippemoff, QC.
LOL, you of all people know we can see IP addresses of posters, so we know who you are ;D
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I think there is/was a defence along the lines of automatic bodily responses....automoton responses(sp)
i.e. you had a sneezing fit (hay fever sufferer) and it would be safer to stop rather than drive with your eyes shut. As soon as your sneezing fit ended you made your way clear off the junction
Otherwise I cant see how you can argue that you enetered a box junction without room on the other side. The only other defense is turning right and your progress is only blocked by on coming traffic
I know it sucks but best of luck
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i'm sure i heard a good while ago that someone was cleared of any wrongdoing in an accident as he claimed it was his sneezing that cause it
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Hi
I am a magistrate. I can tell you that you will not win this appeal quite simply because of the fact that you must not ENTER any box junction unless your exit is clear. Your defence that the van suddenly stopped only goes to reinforce the fact that you entered this box without ensuring your path through was clear.
The highway code is absolutely clear on the rules regarding box junctions and your only cause for appeal would be if your vehicle broke down with a sudden and catastrophic result, disabling your vehicle immediatley and rendering it immobile. As you drive a Vauxhall Omega, this would not be acceptable defence as the model of car is doomed to this very event at somepoint.
Appeal if you wish, but you are wasting your time.
I hope this is of some help to you.
love
The very honourable Angela Rippemoff, QC.
I would agree wholeheartedly with Angela. She knows her stuff and she works for that top law firm Gertrude McChicken & Associates.
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I think there is/was a defence along the lines of automatic bodily responses....automoton responses(sp)
i.e. you had a sneezing fit (hay fever sufferer) and it would be safer to stop rather than drive with your eyes shut. As soon as your sneezing fit ended you made your way clear off the junction
Otherwise I cant see how you can argue that you enetered a box junction without room on the other side. The only other defense is turning right and your progress is only blocked by on coming traffic
I know it sucks but best of luck
>:(I've got althziemers so have no control over popping a wheelie on my Bandit due to an uncontrollably shaky right hand does'nt work either :'( :'( :'(!!!
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Hi
I am a magistrate. I can tell you that you will not win this appeal quite simply because of the fact that you must not ENTER any box junction unless your exit is clear. Your defence that the van suddenly stopped only goes to reinforce the fact that you entered this box without ensuring your path through was clear.
The highway code is absolutely clear on the rules regarding box junctions and your only cause for appeal would be if your vehicle broke down with a sudden and catastrophic result, disabling your vehicle immediatley and rendering it immobile. As you drive a Vauxhall Omega, this would not be acceptable defence as the model of car is doomed to this very event at somepoint.
Appeal if you wish, but you are wasting your time.
I hope this is of some help to you.
love
The very honourable Angela Rippemoff, QC.
:DDing Dong, you can pass judgement on me anytime m'lady!!! :P :P :P
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Got it today, the fine that is from Transport for London £120 or 50% if paid within 14 days. This was last Tuesday when i got stuck in the box junction in peckham on my way up to Milton Keynes. Now I know the rules for box junctions but when I entered the box junction the traffic was moving, then subsequently stopped, the vehicles in front of me was a van and in front of that a truck, the van is in the box junction too (2 lanes), in the pics I am stuck at 10:01:46 and in the other pic I have moved from the left hand lane into the right hand side lane out of the box junction at 10:02:06 e.g., when the traffic had started to move again, now this is well under 20 seconds stuck in the box junction, as the other pic shows me in the other lane well past the box junction.
Now unless they want to start putting up stop signs at box junctions in this case they are well out of order >:(
:(Sorry Mick you're gonna hate me but cannot enter yellow hatchings in moving traffic hoping there'll e room on the other side when the traffic stops. It's a p*** off cos if you leave a gap some stroker dives in from a left turn and you can wait all day, try it with a 45ft trailer behind you, cars dive in front of you from the right hand lane & if you stuck to the law you'd be sat there all day but much as i admire your fight you wo'nt win in court & may incur costs.
We all do it but if we get caught it's tough titty!!! Ido know how rather frustrating it is but there you go.
Many years ago on my hgv test i got a "minor" for hesitation on a 5 way roundabout, but if i'd pulled out too early i'd have got a major(failure) for intimidating other road users.
It's all very well people making the rules up in an office & there is a point to them but theory often differs to practice. Sympathies, Guy.
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Hi
I am a magistrate. I can tell you that you will not win this appeal quite simply because of the fact that you must not ENTER any box junction unless your exit is clear. Your defence that the van suddenly stopped only goes to reinforce the fact that you entered this box without ensuring your path through was clear.
The highway code is absolutely clear on the rules regarding box junctions and your only cause for appeal would be if your vehicle broke down with a sudden and catastrophic result, disabling your vehicle immediatley and rendering it immobile. As you drive a Vauxhall Omega, this would not be acceptable defence as the model of car is doomed to this very event at somepoint.
Appeal if you wish, but you are wasting your time.
I hope this is of some help to you.
love
The very honourable Angela Rippemoff, QC.
Thanks for the advice honourable RMcB, I am sure the will state the highway code in their response. Being a QC there must be some case law on this surely?
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Hi
I am a magistrate. I can tell you that you will not win this appeal quite simply because of the fact that you must not ENTER any box junction unless your exit is clear. Your defence that the van suddenly stopped only goes to reinforce the fact that you entered this box without ensuring your path through was clear.
The highway code is absolutely clear on the rules regarding box junctions and your only cause for appeal would be if your vehicle broke down with a sudden and catastrophic result, disabling your vehicle immediatley and rendering it immobile. As you drive a Vauxhall Omega, this would not be acceptable defence as the model of car is doomed to this very event at somepoint.
Appeal if you wish, but you are wasting your time.
I hope this is of some help to you.
love
The very honourable Angela Rippemoff, QC.
Sounds like your crank sensor went then Mike. Known fault on an Omega :y
Yeah but is that likey to start working within 20 seconds ;D
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Pay the £60 Mike, and dont be paranoid, it's nothing personal. Every minute of every day, someone, somewhere is after your dosh. :(
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Pay the £60 Mike, and dont be paranoid, it's nothing personal. Every minute of every day, someone, somewhere is after your dosh. :(
Looks like I may just have too, annoying thing is no notice of cameras or fines, not like you know you get fines for the bus lanes and there are signs for them etc.., Best one is someone from work going home thursday night spotted a camera van parked up on double yellows just before a box junction to tkae pics of offending cars, she went hom e to get her camera to take a pic, but when she got back it was gone ::)
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Got it today, the fine that is from Transport for London £120 or 50% if paid within 14 days. This was last Tuesday when i got stuck in the box junction in peckham on my way up to Milton Keynes. Now I know the rules for box junctions but when I entered the box junction the traffic was moving, then subsequently stopped, the vehicles in front of me was a van and in front of that a truck, the van is in the box junction too (2 lanes), in the pics I am stuck at 10:01:46 and in the other pic I have moved from the left hand lane into the right hand side lane out of the box junction at 10:02:06 e.g., when the traffic had started to move again, now this is well under 20 seconds stuck in the box junction, as the other pic shows me in the other lane well past the box junction.
Now unless they want to start putting up stop signs at box junctions in this case they are well out of order >:(
These boxes can cause probs but unfortunatly the pillocks that design them and other traffic stoppers BUS LANES, sit in offices all day thinking on how to bring city centres to a halt, Newport is not a large city but all these stupid 3 lane roundabouts that go into 2 lanes, bus lanes that are hardly used by buses, speed ramps that are made to rip off low cars exhaust, traffic lights on roundabouts have caused a grid lock at peak times, before all these mods there was NEVER a grid lock, it aint the amount of cars, its all the traffic calming systems and knobheads that think of them.
Sorry to here about your fine mate.
>:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
Don't start me on bstard BUS LANES..
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Got it today, the fine that is from Transport for London £120 or 50% if paid within 14 days. This was last Tuesday when i got stuck in the box junction in peckham on my way up to Milton Keynes. Now I know the rules for box junctions but when I entered the box junction the traffic was moving, then subsequently stopped, the vehicles in front of me was a van and in front of that a truck, the van is in the box junction too (2 lanes), in the pics I am stuck at 10:01:46 and in the other pic I have moved from the left hand lane into the right hand side lane out of the box junction at 10:02:06 e.g., when the traffic had started to move again, now this is well under 20 seconds stuck in the box junction, as the other pic shows me in the other lane well past the box junction.
Now unless they want to start putting up stop signs at box junctions in this case they are well out of order >:(
These boxes can cause probs but unfortunatly the pillocks that design them and other traffic stoppers BUS LANES, sit in offices all day thinking on how to bring city centres to a halt, Newport is not a large city but all these stupid 3 lane roundabouts that go into 2 lanes, bus lanes that are hardly used by buses, speed ramps that are made to rip off low cars exhaust, traffic lights on roundabouts have caused a grid lock at peak times, before all these mods there was NEVER a grid lock, it aint the amount of cars, its all the traffic calming systems and knobheads that think of them.
Sorry to here about your fine mate.
>:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
Don't start me on bstard BUS LANES..[/quote]
Which one the one at Burslem lights? I had a bus driver pointing a digital camera at me under his arm cheeky thing him, so we all put our faces to the windows and stuck our tongues out ;D
Mike you really don't seem to be having a great deal of luck mate at all, who have you upset ;) ;D x
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.....
Don't start me on bstard BUS LANES..
Are those the things where NO f***er drives in 'em regardless of the time of day or day or week ...... buses included!
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you must not ENTER any box junction unless your exit is clear.
I thought you could if you are turning right :-/
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ok Mike you got to be philosophical about it , how many times have you parked on double yellow lines or drove at well over the legal limit & got away with it, I know I & most of the forum have, so look at it like that, you could have been caught tearing down the motorway, lost your licence, then your job, then your wife, then your house & found yourself with a bandaged leg somewhere begging for a half eaten big mac.In life you gotta roll with the punches & dont let the barstewards drag you down :y
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ok Mike you got to be philosophical about it , how many times have you parked on double yellow lines or drove at well over the legal limit & got away with it, I know I & most of the forum have, so look at it like that, you could have been caught tearing down the motorway, lost your licence, then your job, then your wife, then your house & found yourself with a bandaged leg somewhere begging for a half eaten big mac.In life you gotta roll with the punches & dont let the barstewards drag you down :y
Cheers for the advice :y....Have appealed in any case and await their response ::)...have a cheque waiting just in case :( ;D
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Were you fined for enterring the box, or actually getting stuck in it?
I can't see from the pics that they can prove you were stopped - in the second picture you seem to be well away from the box so I don't see that pic is relevant. So unless there is a speed detector on the first pic, how do they know you were stationary? As I understood it the HC says don't enter the box unless the exit is clear, but I thought the actual offence is stopping.
Having said that, I doubt you have much chance of a successful appeal. Good luck anyway :y
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you must not ENTER any box junction unless your exit is clear.
I thought you could if you are turning right :-/
You can stop in it (to give way) if you're turning right, but only if the exit is clear. That is, as soon as there is a gap in the traffic you are giving way to, you should be able to complete your turn. That way if the traffic lights change, you won't be left blocking the junction even after oncoming traffic has stopped.
The complication arises if you legitimately enter with a clear exit, but several of the cars you're giving way to turn into the road you want to take, subsequently blocking your exit. I'm not sure what would happen with one of these big-brother CCTV cameras in such a scenario.
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It's typical of the cheap, low quality justice that's being handed out in this country these days. The point we're all coming to is that it really needs a traffic officer to be watching the junction to consider all the factors and determine if an offence was committed. We're told we can't afford them anymore so we have to water down the legal system to convict people based on very circumstantial photo evidence.
I've no doubt that it'd be futile to appeal, even though the couple of photos you've shown fall a long way short of proving the offence.
Kevin
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It's typical of the cheap, low quality justice that's being handed out in this country these days. The point we're all coming to is that it really needs a traffic officer to be watching the junction to consider all the factors and determine if an offence was committed. We're told we can't afford them anymore so we have to water down the legal system to convict people based on very circumstantial photo evidence.
I've no doubt that it'd be futile to appeal, even though the couple of photos you've shown fall a long way short of proving the offence.
Kevin
No response on the appeal yet ::), thats been 11 days since I sent it in...they're obvioulsy very busy and hav'nt sorted out there computerised generated responses yet ;D ;D
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No response on the appeal yet
Are they not just waiting for the fine to double before they tell you to fork off?
Good luck anyway. May as well cause them some aggro aqnd paperwork if nothing else.
Kevin