Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: RobC_NE on 05 October 2006, 01:28:16
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:'(just changed the timing belt and now the car wont start. done a paperclip and im getting back:
- 136 Engine Control Unit (ECU)
132 EGR valve Incorrect signal
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WTF!!!!???
cant see anything that i have touched, moved or frayed wiring wise whilst doing the belt.
you guys suggest anything please? need this rectifying.... please :(
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Hmmm sounds to me like something is not plugged back in.
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Three things to check as a starter.
The main engine earth and earth connection below the battery.
The Two large round engine multiplugs behind the battery.
The ECU main connector is fully in and home.
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well when the problems were realised last night, the engine would turn over happily (albeit a bit fast) but no ignition, DIS pack is brand new, so is the fuel pump. However the haynes book of lies said about a possible crankshaft failure and tbh i am really tempted to believe it. as it seems that there is nothing that the crank pulley is moving internally. even though its spinning (along with all the accociated bits.)
will try the suggestions that MarksDTM put forward and see if i have any luck. :( hope so, as i could do with the car tommorow for work. (aint gettin the bus again. wayyyy too many charves >:()
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Check TIS, and 136 is 'unknown final stage error' and suggests switching off ignition and restarting test, unless you also have a 55 which means change ECU
So check wiring, probably something not plugged in, or 2 plugs transposed...
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Don't sweat matey.
If it was running before, there is no serious reason for it not to run again!
If you had not timed it up right, to the extent it would not start, then you'd bend valves etc and the engine wouldn't turn freely as it does.
Because it turns fast suggests you have a good battery that's all. If there was any internal engine damage the crank pully would NOT turn freely as you describe!
Plus, the fault codes you post indicate something electrical not plugged in.
Keep at it, you'll find something...
And I bet you a [smiley=beer.gif] it will be something simple :)
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or 2 plugs transposed...
This is what my money's on...
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well in terms of the transposure lol. IIRC the intake air temp sensor is the white one? and the multiram valve is the black :-/ i know the MAF is in the right place as it doesnt fit anywhere else. the list of plugs i removed is as folows:
- MAF
- Intake air temp
- O/S bank cam sensor
- EGR valve
- Multiram solenoid (beteween the silver main butterfly valve on the multiram and the block)
- Sec. Air injection valve (mounted on a bracket on the rad)
i dont recall moving any others. and have checked all the above. i did originally get a code 31 (but i already know that it is due to the engine not running.) and a code for the Sec Air injection valve but remedied the as the plug wasn't on properly. have also had the MAF etc, loom plug off from near the batt, checked it and enured it (and the others) were securely connected.
my worry is that the car was running ok prior to the idler failing. have had the crank turning (by hand) once the belt was fitted, and there was no resistance at any point so i can only assumethe valves are ok. (boy was i lucky)
dont know if this further info helps with any possible diagnosis :-[
cheers for everyones input (keep it coming though haha)
Rob.
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Hmmm, you got a code 31 and never mentioned that?
I know me and Jaime disagree on this, but don't discount the crank sensor...
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If you transpose the air intake temp and front multiram, it will flag up an 'air intake temp sensor high input' apparently :-[ - because of course, I've never done that :-[ ;)
As LB66 hinted, we disagree on the crank codes, but I don't think you have a crank sensor failure.
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I know me and Jaime disagree on this, but don't discount the crank sensor...
LB66, if you're coming to Santa Pod, I'll be more than happy to bring Tech2 and show you 31 is normal...
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Jaime, you know I am coming, and we can "discuss" the merits of both codes, then both shut up when Mark tells us which is correct! ;D
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When you say 'it turned over with no resistance' Do you mean exactly that, or that it had the normal resistance against compression?
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I am worried here.......
If it spins freely then you are down on compression.......thats not good.
What was the belt timing when you took the cam cover off......had the belt jumped teeth, any teeth missing etc?
When you turned the crand by hand was the timing belt fitted?
Concerned of Beeston......
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my worry is that the car was running ok prior to the idler failing. have had the crank turning (by hand) once the belt was fitted, and there was no resistance at any point so i can only assumethe valves are ok. (boy was i lucky)
Rob.
This suggests to me that the belt was fitted when turning by hand.
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my worry is that the car was running ok prior to the idler failing. have had the crank turning (by hand) once the belt was fitted, and there was no resistance at any point so i can only assumethe valves are ok. (boy was i lucky)
Rob.
This suggests to me that the belt was fitted when turning by hand.
It also suggests that there is no compression on any cylinder so unless the plugs were out then there must be bent valves on all cylinders.
With the plugs fitted its quite hard to turn over compression by hand.
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Thats bad news.....
Turning it by hand with the belt fitted, it spins easily......I think you have bent valves......no compression as a result and the ECU is sat there going....'bloody hell thats spinning fast'!
We need to know the position of the belt etc before it was removed...more than 2 teeth out and its game over.
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Jaime, you know I am coming, and we can "discuss" the merits of both codes
The lengths some people go to to get free Tech2 work done ;D
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Marks DTM : "((Turning it by hand with the belt fitted, it spins easily......I think you have bent valves......no compression as a result and the ECU is sat there going....'bloody hell thats spinning fast'! ))"
well have seen robinhoods dvd for the cam belt and it didnt seem to be putting up much resistance upon turining the crank with a ratchet.
however i removed all the plugs to see if any were damaged or anything, and found pretty much all the plugs were coated with oil around the white insulator and over the ht ends, is this the cam cover gaskets?
if the valves are fkd then how hard is it to remove the heads and replace them? unless there are only a few valves gone then they will be replaced on there own.
mind can get aother 3.0 for £150 (plus a new timing belt kit (£70) unless i use the one i have just fitted.) :-[
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That was my car in the dvd and I can assure you, it certainly had compresssion!
When turning the crank (once the belt is fitted) it should go from little resistance to really strong resistance as you reach tdc, then ease off again.
As Mark/Fin/Pete have said, if you don't feel this, then you are in trouble!
Also as Mark said, did you check the timing before you locked the cams and removed the old belt?
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So what was the belt timing like before the old one was removed?
Were any teeth missing from the belt?
Plugs will not be damaegd by the pistons as they are flush with the dish in the heads.
It does sound like you also have leaking cam covers.....
Head removal and replacement is abotu a days job.....and you definately DONT replace bent valves without renewing the valve guides (they crack and can then break away and get eaten by the engine.....)
Its dificult to observe the resistance the compression is applying...........you can feel it, its down to spannering technique as to how easy it is to observe.
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Also as Mark said, did you check the timing before you locked the cams and removed the old belt?
yeah i did, they looked about a tooth out when the crank was at TDC ( i believe its 2 or more teeth out and problems occur and one tooth out or slightly off timing just makes it run like a bag of crap.
IIRC the crank marking is on the face of the crank (once the pulley is removed) and that lines up with the notch at the bottom, while the cams sit with ther respective numbers aligned to the cuts in the rear belt cover. this is purely for a rough visual check, as i had to give the timing kit back to my colleague yesterday.
also. if the crank is 180* rotated while the cams are aligned would this make a difference? or is this very unhealthy for any remaining working valves (assuming any are damaged) :-?
PS. oh yeah, there was no damage to the belt apart from a cut about 2cm long paralel to the edge, bang in the middle, due to a rogue bit of the idler.
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If you turned the crank through 180 deg when the belt was off then you will have bent some valves, unless they were already bent??