Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: Jay on 24 December 2006, 00:05:26
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My mate reckons you can unplug it so it doesnt come on at all but he doesnt know how, is this right?
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Donnow about un-plugging, but there is a button to switch it off.... so I'm sure you can short-circuit it or something.
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Come to think of it the TC is integrated with the ABS, don't think you can unplug one without un-plugging the other....
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ah right nice one
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You cannot short out switch, as its momentary switch - after a few secs of being shorted, it will toggle itself again (try it by pressing and holding your tc switch for 15s...
Only way to turn tc off, is to either press the button every start, or to put a fault on the ABS ecu so it turns it off (obviously NOT RECOMMENDED!!)
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Just a question but why would you want to?
My tc lights been flashing a lot on these icy greasy slippery roads or am i just not brave enough yet? ;D
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Just a question but why would you want to?
My tc lights been flashing a lot on these icy greasy slippery roads or am i just not brave enough yet? ;D
Whimp! ;)
Seriously, powerful RWD vehicles can face the wrong way very easily in slippery conditions, so not recommended to drive with it off...
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Just a question but why would you want to?
My tc lights been flashing a lot on these icy greasy slippery roads or am i just not brave enough yet? ;D
Whimp! ;)
Seriously, powerful RWD vehicles can face the wrong way very easily in slippery conditions, so not recommended to drive with it off...
How did we manage without the electronic trickery that intervenes between out right foot & the engine. I wish there was a way to permanantly switch the bloody thing off - it's a pain in the 4r$e. You have your foot planted cos you want to get out onto the main road & TC is saying "you've got a wheel slipping". It's oblivious to the car that's coming and leaves you kangerooing out of the junction like a bloody learner. If manufacturers insist on fitting it to keep the fitment list the same as the other manufactures TC should be variable ie allow a little bit of slip before it puts its two pen'orth in.
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Just a question but why would you want to?
My tc lights been flashing a lot on these icy greasy slippery roads or am i just not brave enough yet? ;D
Whimp! ;)
Seriously, powerful RWD vehicles can face the wrong way very easily in slippery conditions, so not recommended to drive with it off...
How did we manage without the electronic trickery that intervenes between out right foot & the engine. I wish there was a way to permanantly switch the bloody thing off - it's a pain in the 4r$e. You have your foot planted cos you want to get out onto the main road & TC is saying "you've got a wheel slipping". It's oblivious to the car that's coming and leaves you kangerooing out of the junction like a bloody learner. If manufacturers insist on fitting it to keep the fitment list the same as the other manufactures TC should be variable ie allow a little bit of slip before it puts its two pen'orth in.
I've found Omega ones one of better ones (admittedly, only other RWD car I've driven with TC is BMW, and their implementation really is crap - look which cars are stuck when snow/icy). Great for those little 'tyre saver' wheelspins that show sufficient displeasure, without costing £105 per corner ;)
If you are getting TC coming on, you are probably being a little heavy footed out of junctions...
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Just a question but why would you want to?
My tc lights been flashing a lot on these icy greasy slippery roads or am i just not brave enough yet? ;D
Whimp! ;)
Seriously, powerful RWD vehicles can face the wrong way very easily in slippery conditions, so not recommended to drive with it off...
Thats me safe then ;D
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If you are getting TC coming on, you are probably being a little heavy footed out of junctions...
I don't often do but I'd like the car to go when/if I want it to, NOT when it deigns to! TC would be better if is was variable ie allow a little slip before it put's its two pen'orth in, It's too ON or OFF with nothing in the middle.
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If you are getting TC coming on, you are probably being a little heavy footed out of junctions...
I don't often do but I'd like the car to go when/if I want it to, NOT when it deigns to! TC would be better if is was variable ie allow a little slip before it put's its two pen'orth in, It's too ON or OFF with nothing in the middle.
Doesn't yours give any wheelspin from standing start?
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Just a question but why would you want to?
My tc lights been flashing a lot on these icy greasy slippery roads or am i just not brave enough yet? ;D
Whimp! ;)
Seriously, powerful RWD vehicles can face the wrong way very easily in slippery conditions, so not recommended to drive with it off...
Thats me safe then ;D
Don't bet on it - I had a 2.5 diesel transit do a 360 on me down a country lane a few winters back. 3 tonnes out of control is not recommended...
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Just a question but why would you want to?
My tc lights been flashing a lot on these icy greasy slippery roads or am i just not brave enough yet? ;D
Whimp! ;)
Seriously, powerful RWD vehicles can face the wrong way very easily in slippery conditions, so not recommended to drive with it off...
Thats me safe then ;D
Don't bet on it - I had a 2.5 diesel transit do a 360 on me down a country lane a few winters back. 3 tonnes out of control is not recommended...
You and Fords are like electricity and water!! ::)
Doing a 360 in a transit is impressive!!
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Driving a Transit is IMMPRESSIVE :o
HAPPY XMAS TO ONE AND ALL
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Doing a 360 in a transit is impressive!!
Nearly did a 360 in dry in it one day, but got it wedged between 2 banks down a single track road - front bumper on one bank, rear step on bank other side of road, wheels nearly off ground. Had to dig the banks to get the bloody thing free >:(
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Doesn't yours give any wheelspin from standing start?
In the dry - no
In the wet - sometimes. It depends how much diesel the HGVs have deposited at the junction. ;)
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Doesn't yours give any wheelspin from standing start?
In the dry - no
In the wet - sometimes. It depends how much diesel the HGVs have deposited at the junction. ;)
I wouldn't have thought the TC would have made much difference to how slippery the roads were - I would have thought it would allow same amount of wheelspin, whatever the surface?
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Just a question but why would you want to?
To have fun in it ;D
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I wouldn't have thought the TC would have made much difference to how slippery the roads were - I would have thought it would allow same amount of wheelspin, whatever the surface?
I think the TC works by cutting the power, so when the wheels start to spin the TC just stops the injectors/plugs for a couple of cycles.
In the dry if the wheel starts to spin the TC detects it after about 2 revolutions, chops down the power and it stops spinning almost straight away. In the wet the wheel has less friction from the road so its momentum lets it spin a few more times after the power is cut.
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Just a question but why would you want to?
My tc lights been flashing a lot on these icy greasy slippery roads or am i just not brave enough yet? ;D
Whimp! ;)
Seriously, powerful RWD vehicles can face the wrong way very easily in slippery conditions, so not recommended to drive with it off...
Had a few in the past - at low speeds
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Just a question but why would you want to?
My tc lights been flashing a lot on these icy greasy slippery roads or am i just not brave enough yet? ;D
Whimp! ;)
Seriously, powerful RWD vehicles can face the wrong way very easily in slippery conditions, so not recommended to drive with it off...
Had a few in the past - at low speeds
Did that in a RWD Alfa Romeo many years ago. It was wet, and I was trying to negotiate a bend too fast... ended-up with my boot in a bus stop.
Funny thing is that when the rear moved-out, I over-corrected and span 180 degrees inwards, not outwards - it is amazing to think that the car was actually very controllable - I evident from the fact that I steered it into the opposite direction of it's natural travel - but I was simply not good enough a driver to master it.
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I wouldn't have thought the TC would have made much difference to how slippery the roads were - I would have thought it would allow same amount of wheelspin, whatever the surface?
I think the TC works by cutting the power, so when the wheels start to spin the TC just stops the injectors/plugs for a couple of cycles.
In the dry if the wheel starts to spin the TC detects it after about 2 revolutions, chops down the power and it stops spinning almost straight away. In the wet the wheel has less friction from the road so its momentum lets it spin a few more times after the power is cut.
Ones with the improved ABS (mini facelift onwards) it also tries to apply brake to spinning wheel....
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i had heard something like that but didn't realise it was mini-facelift and onwards.
can this traction control do anything if the car slides round a corner and the power is not on? i.e. say i take a sharp corner in the snow, the car looses it and i have no feet on the pedals, will the TC brake any wheels or do anything to help me? or if i used the brake would it bias the brake power differently to help control the skid?
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i had heard something like that but didn't realise it was mini-facelift and onwards.
can this traction control do anything if the car slides round a corner and the power is not on? i.e. say i take a sharp corner in the snow, the car looses it and i have no feet on the pedals, will the TC brake any wheels or do anything to help me? or if i used the brake would it bias the brake power differently to help control the skid?
AFAIK, Omega does not have a stability control function, only TC and ABS...
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Definitely doesn't have stability control, I've had it hugely sideways with the TCS on! By comparison, I can deliberately provoke my BMW and it will initially kick out then just straighten itself back up. Unless of course the DSC button has been pressed ;D
I do find TCS to be more of a hindrance than anything else, it's too "dumb" in its implementation to be worthwhile.
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From Opel 2003 publication:
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• The DSA (Dynamic SAfety) chassis
provides excellent road-holding using
specially chosen elastokinematics to
ensure automatic stabilization of the
DSA front suspension during crucial
driving maneuvers.
• ESP (Electronic Stability Program) uses a
number of sensors to detect critical
driving situations and helps the driver by
applying the brakes individually as
appropriate or altering the engine
settings. ESP goes a step beyond the
already high standards offered by the
DSA suspension layout, particularly on
wet roads, snow and ice. The latestgeneration
ESP (ESPPlus) is managed in
an integrated way as part of the IDSPlus
chassis (Interactive Driving System) which
is available for the first time in the new
Opel Astra.
• The four channel ABS (Anti-lock Braking
System) with variable braking force
distribution, contributes to safer road
behavior and more agile handling. It
shortens the stopping distance on
slippery road surfaces while retaining
steering control.
• Opel’s TCPlus Traction Control system
operates via the brakes and engine
power output, whereas conventional
systems control via the engine only.
TCPlus also controls spinning wheels to
improve traction, for example when
accelerating on surfaces with different
levels of grip on the left and right side of
the road. The electronic traction control
prevents the driven wheels from spinning
making it easier to control on icy
gradients.
----------------------------------------------------------
According to the 2001 Sales Brochure, the facelift Omegas has DSA (short for Dynamic SAfety suspension - but what on earth is it anyway?), ABS, and TC Plus, but there is no mention of ESP for the Omega...
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The description of DSA seems to translate into 'specially chosen' suspension bushes and other bits that are made to a price rather than a quality and are know to fail regularly resulting in regular trips to the stealer to donate some more hard earned money to them. In otherwords marketing blurb that means nothing.....
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I do find TCS to be more of a hindrance than anything else, it's too "dumb" in its implementation to be worthwhile.
Exactly! .... it's to ON or OFF with nothing in the middle.
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From Opel 2003 publication:
----------------------------------------------------------
• The DSA (Dynamic SAfety) chassis
provides excellent road-holding using
specially chosen elastokinematics to
ensure automatic stabilization of the
DSA front suspension during crucial
driving maneuvers.
• ESP (Electronic Stability Program) uses a
number of sensors to detect critical
driving situations and helps the driver by
applying the brakes individually as
appropriate or altering the engine
settings. ESP goes a step beyond the
already high standards offered by the
DSA suspension layout, particularly on
wet roads, snow and ice. The latestgeneration
ESP (ESPPlus) is managed in
an integrated way as part of the IDSPlus
chassis (Interactive Driving System) which
is available for the first time in the new
Opel Astra.
• The four channel ABS (Anti-lock Braking
System) with variable braking force
distribution, contributes to safer road
behavior and more agile handling. It
shortens the stopping distance on
slippery road surfaces while retaining
steering control.
• Opel’s TCPlus Traction Control system
operates via the brakes and engine
power output, whereas conventional
systems control via the engine only.
TCPlus also controls spinning wheels to
improve traction, for example when
accelerating on surfaces with different
levels of grip on the left and right side of
the road. The electronic traction control
prevents the driven wheels from spinning
making it easier to control on icy
gradients.
----------------------------------------------------------
According to the 2001 Sales Brochure, the facelift Omegas has DSA (short for Dynamic SAfety suspension - but what on earth is it anyway?), ABS, and TC Plus, but there is no mention of ESP for the Omega...
DSA is simply good chassis design, and is the most critical safety measure. Others are electronic helpers. I'm sure we've all driven ESP equiped Focus cars - they have had to fit ESP on the more powerful ones as chassis dynamics are below par. Mercs from around 5yrs ago had similar issues...
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I do find TCS to be more of a hindrance than anything else, it's too "dumb" in its implementation to be worthwhile.
It is hugely better than the implementation in BMW... ...in slippery conditions in a beemer, you often have to disable TC (ie, when it is needed most)
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I do find TCS to be more of a hindrance than anything else, it's too "dumb" in its implementation to be worthwhile.
It is hugely better than the implementation in BMW... ...in slippery conditions in a beemer, you often have to disable TC (ie, when it is needed most)
Not in mine. Admittedly it's still a handful to drive, with 315 BHP through the rear wheels which are wearing 265/40 summer tyres, but big RWD cars with summer tyres are never a great idea in the snow unless you actually want to go sideways (who me? ;)). When I still had the Audi I'd always choose that when it's snowing and I wanted to get from A to B with minimum sideways action, lighter car with skinnier 195/60 tyres and the weight over the driven wheels (it was FWD) meant it was far easier to get around. Added to the fact if I did hit a kerb or something I'd much rather be doing it in that car!
The secret with BMW's DSC system is to put it into a little documented mode where it will only apply braking to individual wheels in an attempt to keep the car straight and apply power most effectively. Using this mode, the DSC will never cut power so you can feed it in as gently or as heavily as you like. To activate it, press the DSC button as normal (the light comes on the dash) but instead of releasing it keep holding. After 15 seconds the light on the dash goes back off, and it's in the "braking only" mode so you can use full power no matter how the car slides. Works quite well in snow, obviously if you want to make any progress using high gears to move off and gentle on the gas is loads more effective than launching it in 1st 8-)
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I do find TCS to be more of a hindrance than anything else, it's too "dumb" in its implementation to be worthwhile.
It is hugely better than the implementation in BMW... ...in slippery conditions in a beemer, you often have to disable TC (ie, when it is needed most)
Not in mine. Admittedly it's still a handful to drive, with 315 BHP through the rear wheels which are wearing 265/40 summer tyres, but big RWD cars with summer tyres are never a great idea in the snow unless you actually want to go sideways (who me? ;)). When I still had the Audi I'd always choose that when it's snowing and I wanted to get from A to B with minimum sideways action, lighter car with skinnier 195/60 tyres and the weight over the driven wheels (it was FWD) meant it was far easier to get around. Added to the fact if I did hit a kerb or something I'd much rather be doing it in that car!
The secret with BMW's DSC system is to put it into a little documented mode where it will only apply braking to individual wheels in an attempt to keep the car straight and apply power most effectively. Using this mode, the DSC will never cut power so you can feed it in as gently or as heavily as you like. To activate it, press the DSC button as normal (the light comes on the dash) but instead of releasing it keep holding. After 15 seconds the light on the dash goes back off, and it's in the "braking only" mode so you can use full power no matter how the car slides. Works quite well in snow, obviously if you want to make any progress using high gears to move off and gentle on the gas is loads more effective than launching it in 1st 8-)
I was referring to BMW's TC, not their ESP, which I haven't used yet. BMW's TC implementation is so poor, that the slightest bit of snow, you have to disable it.
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There are various versions, I guess earlier ones may have been pretty crap but I've never tried a car with it fitted. I had an E34 (circa 1995) 540i 6-speed manual a while back, and that had ASC+T which is basically a fancy name for traction control (the ASC bit meaning it cuts engine power when a driven wheel slips, the +T bit means it brakes the slipping wheel in an attempt to allow the wheel with more traction to get more power). You could do a similar thing using the 15 second trick with that, where it would only use pure traction control with no power reduction, giving the effect similar to a limited slip diff. Not as good as a real LSD, but a damn sight better than an open diff and brilliant for drifting or doing donuts in snow :D
Even with it on full normal mode it was fine, bogged down a little at first but I've yet to drive a car with a TCS system that doesn't. I guess having a big torquey engine helps as it can still pull even with the power being cut. I remember my dad had a Mondeo company car years ago with a 2.0 engine and TCS. If you spun the wheels sometimes the TCS would cut power but once the wheels stopped spinning the engine was so gutless and bogged down I often found myself dipping the clutch to get the revs back up so the damn thing could move! Not the best idea, but it was a company car so it's destined for a hard life lol.
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Neither my brothers 3 series Alpina or his 540 would go anywhere in the snow. In the end he gave up, and bought an X5 instead (likes out in country, so needs something with some element of traction). Alas, he will only consider BMW, hence the X5 (which his dealer put through the carwash with sunroof open at its first service! - £65k of car through a carwash is bad enough, but to leave s/r open is inexcusable).
Strangely, he will only consider Sony for home entertainment...
He thinks this stuff is as good as it was late eighties/early nineties, and fails to realise that even cheapo companies have caught up, in many cases overtaken...
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Neither my brothers 3 series Alpina or his 540 would go anywhere in the snow.
Used to piss him off that his £50k cars would get stuck, and my £3k Vauxhall would have no problems... ;D
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His chelsea tractor probably won't be much better, and it makes you look like a right prat when it does get stuck. Come to think of it you look like a right prat in one of those regardless, so maybe getting stuck isn't much more of an embarrassment after all.
X5s are a dog dropping a great big turd on the BMW badge. Admittedly most of their newer cars aren't up to the standards of the older stuff (the quality and engineering of the 840Ci is generally excellent, even moreso the 850CSi the engine of which was developed into that which powered the McLaren F1), but it really makes me cringe when I see an X5 and I have to come to terms with wearing the same badge as such junk.
Porsche have suffered a similar fate with the absolute abomination that is the cayenne. I used to see them as quite a coveted marque, and even fancied an early 996 911 C2, but the brand has taken a severe dent in my view making it much less desirable to me. That combined with rear main seal issues on the boxer engines (excluding 911 Turbo and GT3) has more or less put me off the idea of a Porsche.
Oh and my 840 does just fine in the snow, it's the tyres that let it down. I haven't driven the Omega in snow yet but I'm pretty sure it would be woeful on the current tyres considering how bad it is in the rain!
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His chelsea tractor probably won't be much better, and it makes you look like a right prat when it does get stuck. Come to think of it you look like a right prat in one of those regardless, so maybe getting stuck isn't much more of an embarrassment after all.
Agreed.
I think BMW cars have really gone downhill since early nineties.
As for the McLaren F1 GT engine being a development of the 850 engine, thats a bit of a stretch...
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Porsche have suffered a similar fate with the absolute abomination that is the cayenne. I used to see them as quite a coveted marque, and even fancied an early 996 911 C2, but the brand has taken a severe dent in my view making it much less desirable to me. That combined with rear main seal issues on the boxer engines (excluding 911 Turbo and GT3) has more or less put me off the idea of a Porsche.
Porsche were always a 'poor mans sports car' (proper sports car) when I was a lad....
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McLaren F1
Mention of that brings back memories - I've been lucky enough to sit in the drivers seat of that beast...
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McLaren F1
Mention of that brings back memories - I've been lucky enough to sit in the drivers seat of that beast...
I used to see it on display in the window while walking down Park Lane, but this was as close as I ever got to one... :(
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McClaren F1 is tow M3 engines in priciple
Carlton had ACT - Advanced Chassis Technology - ie a well designed chassis the Omega is similar in design.
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McClaren F1 is tow M3 engines in priciple
Carlton had ACT - Advanced Chassis Technology - ie a well designed chassis the Omega is similar in design.
Nothing like M3 motors...
Hope Omega is a hell of an improvement on Carlton, chassis design has come a long way in last 20 years....
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Just a question but why would you want to?
My tc lights been flashing a lot on these icy greasy slippery roads or am i just not brave enough yet? ;D
Whimp! ;)
Seriously, powerful RWD vehicles can face the wrong way very easily in slippery conditions, so not recommended to drive with it off...
Thats me safe then ;D
Don't bet on it - I had a 2.5 diesel transit do a 360 on me down a country lane a few winters back. 3 tunnies out of control is not recommended...
;D ;D ;D
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Hope Omega is a hell of an improvement on Carlton, chassis design has come a long way in last 20 years....
It's pity the Omega's front wish-bone bushes didn't keep up then.
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As for the McLaren F1 GT engine being a development of the 850 engine, thats a bit of a stretch...
It had a lot of development to become the McLaren F1 engine, but that's where it originated. Most of the work went into the heads, as the original 24 valve heads just couldn't flow enough to produce big power. So the McLaren engine got new 48 valve heads, dual VANOS and individual throttle bodies IIRC.
They even have almost the same engine designation, the 850CSi has the S70, the first version of the McLaren engine is the S70/2. The S70 is the BMW M-tech version of the M70 fitted to the 850Ci. The S70 was also used in the Alpina B12 5.7 coupe, producing 420 BHP still with 24 valve heads.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_M70
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As for the McLaren F1 GT engine being a development of the 850 engine, thats a bit of a stretch...
It had a lot of development to become the McLaren F1 engine, but that's where it originated. Most of the work went into the heads, as the original 24 valve heads just couldn't flow enough to produce big power. So the McLaren engine got new 48 valve heads, dual VANOS and individual throttle bodies IIRC.
They even have almost the same engine designation, the 850CSi has the S70, the first version of the McLaren engine is the S70/2. The S70 is the BMW M-tech version of the M70 fitted to the 850Ci. The S70 was also used in the Alpina B12 5.7 coupe, producing 420 BHP still with 24 valve heads.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_M70
Trust me, the engines are hugely, hugely different. They may have used the 850 as a starting point, but it may as well be considered a new design...