Omega Owners Forum

Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: stevebubs on 02 January 2007, 17:49:37

Title: Ignition Woes....
Post by: stevebubs on 02 January 2007, 17:49:37
My facelift 2.5 V6 developed a misfire on Sat.

Just spent the better part of the day changing the plugs, leads and cleaning the intake system - many many many thanks for the "How2s" - far more useful than my book of lies...

*However* Still got the bloody misfire....and not got the time or inclination to change the DIS unit myself...going to get it towed to Vx.

Title: Re: Ignition Woes....
Post by: tunnie on 02 January 2007, 17:56:18
I have changed the DIS pack before, its not a fun job and you need slender arms. There is a photo someware of me sitting on a plank of wood in middle of the engine with my hand behind the block.

It can be done, Vx will charge the earth for it and i doubt they will do a good job.

Since you have already changed the plugs, and leads I cannot give any more advice on what it could be.

Where abouts are you?
Title: Re: Ignition Woes....
Post by: stevebubs on 02 January 2007, 18:08:31
I'm in Reading...already go them to quote...1.6hours labour @ £160 + DIS Pack @130ish depending on part fitted ... all including vodka and tonic

Title: Re: Ignition Woes....
Post by: stevebubs on 02 January 2007, 18:14:46
Think it's defo the coilpack - pulling the plug lead off #1 cylinder doesn't make a blind bit of difference to the running.

PS Worth noting that Camberley autofactors stock 2 types of Lead for a 2.5V6 - one set have boots that are 115mm long and the other 130mm. The 130mm ones are around 35quid, and the others about 70...

Guess which ones I needed! (Hint: it wasn't the cheaper option)
Title: Re: Ignition Woes....
Post by: stevebubs on 02 January 2007, 18:18:38
Shouldn't really complain - I've had 3 years / 30k trouble-free motoring from it with only tyres , brakes and exhaust being the only items to need changing (other than oil, air cleaner etc)

(Had a cambelt + major service done when i first bought it)
Title: Re: Ignition Woes....
Post by: tunnie on 02 January 2007, 18:22:33
Quote
Think it's defo the coilpack - pulling the plug lead off #1 cylinder doesn't make a blind bit of difference to the running.

PS Worth noting that Camberley autofactors stock 2 types of Lead for a 2.5V6 - one set have boots that are 115mm long and the other 130mm. The 130mm ones are around 35quid, and the others about 70...

Guess which ones I needed! (Hint: it wasn't the cheaper option)

Interesting...  8-)

I worked on a project car here, it belong to TheBoy. We replaced the DIS Pack for..... a tenner!  ;D

Got the DIS from a scrappy, we also took the leads.

I think the DIS packs for facelift omegas are the same, cause its the same engine.

There might be some DIS packs left in my local scappy, however you can't gaurentee they will work but the one we rescued seamed to do the trick.
Title: Re: Ignition Woes....
Post by: TheBoy on 02 January 2007, 18:23:53
Quote
I have changed the DIS pack before, its not a fun job and you need slender arms. There is a photo someware of me sitting on a plank of wood in middle of the engine with my hand behind the block.
You mean this one, skinny git ;)

(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a319/IamTheBoy/Project%20TB1/IMG_1512.jpg)
Title: Re: Ignition Woes....
Post by: TheBoy on 02 January 2007, 18:24:32
Quote
I'm in Reading...already go them to quote...1.6hours labour @ £160 + DIS Pack @130ish depending on part fitted ... all including vodka and tonic

Ouch!
Title: Re: Ignition Woes....
Post by: TheBoy on 02 January 2007, 18:25:11
Quote
Think it's defo the coilpack - pulling the plug lead off #1 cylinder doesn't make a blind bit of difference to the running.

PS Worth noting that Camberley autofactors stock 2 types of Lead for a 2.5V6 - one set have boots that are 115mm long and the other 130mm. The 130mm ones are around 35quid, and the others about 70...

Guess which ones I needed! (Hint: it wasn't the cheaper option)
Shorter ones for Vectra V6 IIRC...
Title: Re: Ignition Woes....
Post by: TheBoy on 02 January 2007, 18:26:51
I think for DIS pack, only one kind would exist on facelift 2.5 V6.

If you managed to do plug leads, you can change DIS - only a bit more fiddly...
Title: Re: Ignition Woes....
Post by: stevebubs on 02 January 2007, 18:31:39
(http://dsl.cantcatchme.net/misc-images/78_1_b.jpg)

I'm assuming the coilpack above only has the 2 bolts?

Anyone know what is needed to undo them? E10, E12, Screwdriver??
Title: Re: Ignition Woes....
Post by: tunnie on 02 January 2007, 18:32:01
I was hoping you might have lost that photo  ;)

So they want around £290 to replace the DIS? - Blimey!  :o

I could do it for a £100 if i ripped the DIS out of a scrappy  ;) ;D
Title: Re: Ignition Woes....
Post by: tunnie on 02 January 2007, 18:33:54
Quote
(http://dsl.cantcatchme.net/misc-images/78_1_b.jpg)

I'm assuming the coilpack above only has the 2 bolts?

Anyone know what is needed to undo them? E10, E12, Screwdriver??

There are 4  >:(

3 of which are the worst, one closest the block is easy as you can see it. The others are done by feel only, 8mm socket on an extension bar is needed.
Title: Re: Ignition Woes....
Post by: TheBoy on 02 January 2007, 18:34:20
Quote
(http://dsl.cantcatchme.net/misc-images/78_1_b.jpg)

I'm assuming the coilpack above only has the 2 bolts?

Anyone know what is needed to undo them? E10, E12, Screwdriver??
another 2 bolts in same place, other side of DIS (hidden by plug sockets in that photo).

Sorry, really can't remember torx size - I seem to recall Tunnie used a normal 8mm or 10mm socket...
Title: Re: Ignition Woes....
Post by: tunnie on 02 January 2007, 18:37:59
Quote
Quote
(http://dsl.cantcatchme.net/misc-images/78_1_b.jpg)

I'm assuming the coilpack above only has the 2 bolts?

Anyone know what is needed to undo them? E10, E12, Screwdriver??
another 2 bolts in same place, other side of DIS (hidden by plug sockets in that photo).

Sorry, really can't remember torx size - I seem to recall Tunnie used a normal 8mm or 10mm socket...

Yep 8mm, you can reach the top one closest the block no problem. Other 3 you have you use a mini extension bar, otherwise you can't get enough swing to undo the nut.
Title: Re: Ignition Woes....
Post by: stevebubs on 02 January 2007, 18:46:42
Starting to get tempted to give it a go...if I can get it out, then I should be able to get one back in...

Trouble is I'm working during the day for the rest of the week and visibility not too good for this sort of work at night....

If I do it then I'm gonna have to hitch a lift down Halfrauds as the Omega is blocking in the other car and get a couple of 3/8 UJs and a decent small torch.

Can anyone confirm if the bolts are defo 8mm, or are they E8?
Title: Re: Ignition Woes....
Post by: TheBoy on 02 January 2007, 18:50:49
Quote
Starting to get tempted to give it a go...if I can get it out, then I should be able to get one back in...

Trouble is I'm working during the day for the rest of the week and visibility not too good for this sort of work at night....

If I do it then I'm gonna have to hitch a lift down Halfrauds as the Omega is blocking in the other car and get a couple of 3/8 UJs and a decent small torch.

Can anyone confirm if the bolts are defo 8mm, or are they E8?
I do not know torx size (smallish, E10 or E12 I would say), but my socket wrench was too big, so Tunnie had to use one of those mickey mouse socket sets which did not have torx, hence 8mm socket (sockets normally undo torx bolts if not mega tight)
Title: Re: Ignition Woes....
Post by: tunnie on 02 January 2007, 18:57:47
Quote
Starting to get tempted to give it a go...if I can get it out, then I should be able to get one back in...

Trouble is I'm working during the day for the rest of the week and visibility not too good for this sort of work at night....

If I do it then I'm gonna have to hitch a lift down Halfrauds as the Omega is blocking in the other car and get a couple of 3/8 UJs and a decent small torch.

Can anyone confirm if the bolts are defo 8mm, or are they E8?

Can't say 100% they are 8mm.

UJ's may not do the job, access is very, very limited. You will need to take the scuttle drain off to get your arm to the DIS, using a UJ on a mini extension bar with make it hit the bottom of the windscreen.

Has to be a normal socket, on an extension bar. I got lots of tiny cuts because your hand rubs against the bulk head, and my hand would hit the metal heat shield at the back.

At one point I could barley get one 'click' on the spanner, took around 10 mins to get each nut out  :(
Title: Re: Ignition Woes....
Post by: stevebubs on 02 January 2007, 19:03:43
Quote
Can't say 100% they are 8mm.

UJ's may not do the job, access is very, very limited. You will need to take the scuttle drain off to get your arm to the DIS, using a UJ on a mini extension bar with make it hit the bottom of the windscreen.

Has to be a normal socket, on an extension bar. I got lots of tiny cuts because your hand rubs against the bulk head, and my hand would hit the metal heat shield at the back.

At one point I could barley get one 'click' on the spanner, took around 10 mins to get each nut out  :(

Filling me with confidence here.... ::) Got a good selection of tools here including ratchet spanners, sockets, ratchets and extension bars. Only thing missing are UJs and don't want to start the job at 8pm to find I don't have *quite* the right tool for the job...if I can get the part out tonight, I'll cancel the morning towtruck and Thursday's Vx appointment...
Title: Re: Ignition Woes....
Post by: TheBoy on 02 January 2007, 19:05:09
Quote
Quote
Can't say 100% they are 8mm.

UJ's may not do the job, access is very, very limited. You will need to take the scuttle drain off to get your arm to the DIS, using a UJ on a mini extension bar with make it hit the bottom of the windscreen.

Has to be a normal socket, on an extension bar. I got lots of tiny cuts because your hand rubs against the bulk head, and my hand would hit the metal heat shield at the back.

At one point I could barley get one 'click' on the spanner, took around 10 mins to get each nut out  :(

Filling me with confidence here.... ::) Got a good selection of tools here including ratchet spanners, sockets, ratchets and extension bars. Only thing missing are UJs and don't want to start the job at 8pm to find I don't have *quite* the right tool for the job...if I can get the part out tonight, I'll cancel the morning towtruck and Thursday's Vx appointment...
Good luck :)
Title: Re: Ignition Woes....
Post by: tunnie on 02 January 2007, 19:08:01
As TB says Good Luck...

Tbh if its dark, won't make a difference really as most nuts for the dis are out of sight anyway.

Take your time, its just fiddly  :y
Title: Re: Ignition Woes....
Post by: Andy B on 02 January 2007, 19:14:09
Quote
As TB says Good Luck...

Tbh if its dark, won't make a difference really as most nuts for the dis are out of sight anyway.

Take your time, its just fiddly  :y
Agreed. the first time you see your DIS is when the last bolt has been removed.
PS I used a good 1/4" drive socket set to remove mine.
Title: Got the DIS Module Out!!!
Post by: stevebubs on 02 January 2007, 22:11:28
Got the DIS module out....without removing the plenum!!!

Used Good 8mm Deep 1/4" Socket, 1/4" U/J and a couple of extension bars. Took about 40 minutes

Interestingly, the module number is 0221503017 which my local stealer couldn't find on their system this afternoon.

Cancelled my morning pickup and will try and get the part tomorrow :)

Cheers for all your help and ego-boosting!!

Will report back when re-installed.

Stephen

BTW the bolt heads are E10 but there's no way you'd get a Halfrauds E10 3/8" socket in there!
Title: Re: Ignition Woes....
Post by: stevebubs on 02 January 2007, 22:25:14
The tools used....

(http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/upload/OmegaDIS.jpg)

Plus some Tippex to label the leads!!
Title: Re: Got the DIS Module Out!!!
Post by: Andy B on 02 January 2007, 22:47:41
Quote
.....
Interestingly, the module number is 0221503017 which my local stealer couldn't find on their system this afternoon........
IIRC that's a Bosch number that needs to be converted to a Vauxhall/GM part no.
Title: Re: Got the DIS Module Out!!!
Post by: stevebubs on 02 January 2007, 22:55:36
Quote
IIRC that's a Bosch number that needs to be converted to a Vauxhall/GM part no.

Yup. No GM/Vx label on it, though.

Examination in decent light shows why it's given up the ghost on Cylinder 1 (and probably 4)

(http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/upload/OmegaDISCrack.jpg
)

Stephen
Title: Re: Got the DIS Module Out!!!
Post by: Andy B on 02 January 2007, 23:03:30
Quote
Quote
IIRC that's a Bosch number that needs to be converted to a Vauxhall/GM part no.

Yup. No GM/Vx label on it, though.

Examination in decent light shows why it's given up the ghost on Cylinder 1 (and probably 4)

(http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/upload/OmegaDISCrack.jpg
)

Stephen
I can't remember exactly what the score was when I changed mine, but AFAIR I went in with the old DIS and the parts bloke cross ref'd the Bosch nos. on the old one and identified which one I needed. I don't think 'your' parts guy is trying/bothered enough.

Title: Re: Got the DIS Module Out!!!
Post by: stevebubs on 02 January 2007, 23:19:31
Quote

I can't remember exactly what the score was when I changed mine, but AFAIR I went in with the old DIS and the parts bloke cross ref'd the Bosch nos. on the old one and identified which one I needed. I don't think 'your' parts guy is trying/bothered enough.


I think your probably right, although he managed to find the other 2 Bosch part numbers without problem.

Will try them again tomorrow but will also try Autovaux and Camberley Auto Factors
Title: Re: Ignition Woes....
Post by: TheBoy on 03 January 2007, 09:05:58
Just think, you've just saved yourself £160 labour (plus tow truck etc) :y
Title: Re: Ignition Woes....
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 03 January 2007, 09:18:23
You want this one:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/COIL-PACK-VAUXHALL-OMEGA-2-5-3-0-V6-DIS-UNIT-NEW_W0QQitemZ150077070138QQihZ005QQcategoryZ10404QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem]Bosch V6 Dis Pack (http://)

There you go, saved you another 40-50 quid!
Title: Re: Ignition Woes....
Post by: x25xe on 03 January 2007, 09:30:17
Well done Stephen on getting the DIS out.  I will tackle most jobs myself, but doing this is something that I am not too confident about.  I doubt that I would have tried to be honest.

That crack is not helping things!  Tipex is great for marking leads, I have done this many times in the past t o great effect.
Title: Re: Ignition Woes....
Post by: TheBoy on 03 January 2007, 09:36:33
Quote
Well done Stephen on getting the DIS out.  I will tackle most jobs myself, but doing this is something that I am not too confident about.  I doubt that I would have tried to be honest.

That crack is not helping things!  Tipex is great for marking leads, I have done this many times in the past t o great effect.
DIS isn't hard, just fiddly.  Even easier if your toolkit contains a 'Tunnie' - as this is an automated tool that does it while you sit back and drink tea... :)
Title: Re: Ignition Woes....
Post by: stevebubs on 03 January 2007, 09:38:00
Thanks for the kind words, chaps

OK...so Vx part number is 90541062 for Bosch 0221503017. Gonna try and get one locally first - speed of getting the car on the road is a little more important than cost (but only just)

Dug the Fury out the garage this morning to get to work - had to push the Omega out the way first, though (god these things are heavy).
Title: Re: Ignition Woes....
Post by: tunnie on 03 January 2007, 10:46:46
Not a too bad once you get going!

Well done mate, again as TB said, think how much money you have saved. That £160 labour charge can go into your beer fund now  :y
Title: Re: Ignition Woes....
Post by: stevebubs on 03 January 2007, 12:49:18
Got one from the Bracknell Stealer.... £148 inc :(

Means I can fit it tonight and hopefully have the daily driver back on the road :)

PS above part numbers are spot on...

Vx Part# 90541062
Bosch Part# 0221503017 -83Z (not sure what the 83Z signifies)
Title: Re: Ignition Woes....
Post by: tunnie on 03 January 2007, 13:44:41
Quote
Got one from the Bracknell Stealer.... £148 inc :(

Means I can fit it tonight and hopefully have the daily driver back on the road :)

PS above part numbers are spot on...

Vx Part# 90541062
Bosch Part# 0221503017 -83Z (not sure what the 83Z signifies)

£148!!!  :o

Tryed Autovaux?? they might be cheaper and do next day delivery
Title: Re: Ignition Woes....
Post by: stevebubs on 03 January 2007, 14:47:35
Yes - but I'd rather spend the money and have the daily driver on the road tonight. New pack is on my desk as I type this.

The Fury is  a little Lairy for cold/wet weather driving has no heater and is not very watertight. This on its own doesn't really bother me too much as I love driving it, but it isn't too smart to drench a laptop...
Title: No More Ignition Woes....
Post by: stevebubs on 03 January 2007, 19:53:16
DIS unit installed and car running in under 30 minutes from getting home from Work.

Now, unlike me, it's firing on all cylinders! Wahey!!!

Many thanks for all your help!!!

Title: Re: No More Ignition Woes....
Post by: tunnie on 03 January 2007, 19:54:58
Quote
DIS unit installed and car running in under 30 minutes from getting home from Work.

Now, unlike me, it's firing on all cylinders! Wahey!!!

Many thanks for all your help!!!


Glad to hear it Steve, well done  :y

Bet it feels like a 3.0 now you got it firing on all 6  ;)
Title: Re: Ignition Woes....
Post by: stevebubs on 03 January 2007, 19:58:29
Feels quicker than it was, but will be much better when I've changed the oil and air filter...

Still wouldn't call the 2.5 performance rocketship, though - but then my other car does has sub 5sec 0-60 performance...

Stephen
Title: Re: No More Ignition Woes....
Post by: TheBoy on 03 January 2007, 20:09:35
Quote
DIS unit installed and car running in under 30 minutes from getting home from Work.

Now, unlike me, it's firing on all cylinders! Wahey!!!

Many thanks for all your help!!!

Please to hear its running as it should now, and all in all, not a difficult job.  Easy £160 to put towards something else then :)