Omega Owners Forum

Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: Markie on 16 December 2006, 14:49:20

Title: Oil Cooler Condition
Post by: Markie on 16 December 2006, 14:49:20
Oky short and sweet and not strictly relevent to Omegas....but seeing as this is the best forum for goood answers  :y

currently stripping down a 2.6 vectra b, turning over and starting but boy is it rought, gunk EVERYWHERE, radiator has hole at bottom. And al from a 2002 41000mile model v6!

Usual HGF checks suggest initially it doesnt have a problem - water and oil contamination nil but a coolant tank full of very thick sludge.

Using the omega principles i am replacing oil cooler first.
Nearly got to the one thats in the engine currently and my question is when i get to it will i be able to tell if its suspect or not?

Also whilst i this deep into its guts....anything else i should change or check ?
Title: Re: Oil Cooler Condition
Post by: Admin on 16 December 2006, 19:49:17
Oh yes, when you get there you will know! ;)

Title: Re: Oil Cooler Condition
Post by: Markie on 17 December 2006, 09:21:18
thats what concerns me, i am nearly there and nothing untoward...so far :-X
Title: Re: Oil Cooler Condition
Post by: Admin on 17 December 2006, 09:29:25
I have seen them sitting in what looks like syrup mixed with cream and also look normal....until you look a little closer and see all the holes!

Don't worry too much, it sounds exactly like the cooler.
Title: Re: Oil Cooler Condition
Post by: Martin_1962 on 17 December 2006, 09:51:35
Yes there is lots you should change.

Firstly the body shel, then the gearbox, then the axles then you will have a nice car ;D
Title: Re: Oil Cooler Condition
Post by: Matchless on 17 December 2006, 22:40:53
You could try a pressure test with the cooler in a bucket of water but you will need a set of oil pipes to do it.
Vx do a 'kit' of oil cooler, banjo seals and cover at a special price. PM MarksDTM, he should be able to give you the part number.
You might want to re-seal the thermostat housing while you can see it, use the same grey sealant as used on the oil cooler cover, make sure you clean the mating surfaces well and degrease with cellulose thinner before applying sealant.
Title: Re: Oil Cooler Condition
Post by: x25xe on 17 December 2006, 22:49:52
Whilst you are there, it would be a good idea to renew the thermostat.
Title: Re: Oil Cooler Condition
Post by: Markie on 30 December 2006, 15:26:53
Okay an update to this...

getting worried it may NOT be oil cooler - i am now at the plate connecting to oil cooler and so far everything is bone dry and even a bit dusty!!! see pics below.

(http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n54/markiec23/DSCF2932.jpg)

(http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n54/markiec23/DSCF2928.jpg)

Question should i by now see the masses of gunk or should it only be below the plate? I cant take the plate off now as i have run out of time for today....

Thinking logically i dont see what else it could be as it starts ( very rough) so not timing belt?!? and its got no contamination except in header tanks.

Thoughts?
Title: Re: Oil Cooler Condition
Post by: TheBoy on 30 December 2006, 16:16:31
If its oil cooler failure, you won't see anything wrong until you lift that plate....
Title: Re: Oil Cooler Condition
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 30 December 2006, 16:33:25
Yep, its under the plate.....

You need to

1) remove the coolant bridge
2) remove the oil filter housing
3) remove the oil cooler to block fixings (by oil filter housing, 19mm crows foot spanner works best)
4) remove the oil cooler pipes to cooler banjo bolts.
5) remove the oil cooler to plate nuts
6) remove the oil cooler plate

Marvel at the joy that is thick mayo.......

I would pop the water pump out and flush it through realy well.......
Title: Re: Oil Cooler Condition
Post by: Markie on 30 December 2006, 16:41:50
thanks guys - i doubt Jamie, Dave and Mark are all going to be wrong so i cant wait to see that mayo!!!

PINT of champagne for you all when your right  :y

Cant do too much more today and need to get sealant on Wednesday when vx reopen!
Jamie you mentioned elsewhere a 2.6 v6 was tight under there - Hell yeah !!!!! can hardly breath never mind remove things  ;D
Title: Re: Oil Cooler Condition
Post by: TheBoy on 30 December 2006, 16:57:30
Quote
thanks guys - i doubt Jamie, Dave and Mark are all going to be wrong so i cant wait to see that mayo!!!

PINT of champagne for you all when your right  :y

Cant do too much more today and need to get sealant on Wednesday when vx reopen!
Jamie you mentioned elsewhere a 2.6 v6 was tight under there - Hell yeah !!!!! can hardly breath never mind remove things  ;D
Never one to contridict M_DTM, but I would consider renewing the water pump, possibly coz it will be full of the stuff, and secondly, the oil would have softened the pump's rubber seal....
Title: Re: Oil Cooler Condition
Post by: Markjay on 30 December 2006, 19:29:14
The oil cooler is immersed in coolant, if it leaks than oil and coolant get mixed without the top plate leaking. As said by all, lift that plate...

As for the 41k miles, I had an oil cooler leak at 25k/3y which was sorted by Vx under warranty. And my car is well maintained... I guess the oil cooler is just a weak point, obviously poor maintenance makes things worst but even with proper looking-after it can fail...

Also, while everything is off, I would give the water passages in the block a good cleaning with a pressure hose.



Title: Re: Oil Cooler Condition
Post by: Markie on 30 December 2006, 19:30:34
Ok i am reassured i am going along the correct lines....... :)

Those of you that know about this car will remember i have also bought a new radiator on TC for it....and for the last few weeks have pondered if it was the radiator that was at fault ( water pouring out front bottom of engine bay....YES I REALLY SHOULD HAVE CHECKED BOTTOM HOSE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Guess i was a bit presumptious there and over eager to use my trade card.

(http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n54/markiec23/DSCF2934.jpg)

Note all the lovely goo / gunk / mayo underside of car on passenger side!!

So thats kind of good news.....pondering though wheter i should still fit the  brand new boxed v radiator with new hoses to minimise the cooland flushing process  :-/

Its a chicken or egg questions this one...But how would that bottom hose come off ( jubilee is stll on it where it should be) would the pressure of oil cooler cause any back presure ?
Title: Re: Oil Cooler Condition
Post by: TheBoy on 30 December 2006, 20:13:20
As its been obviously driven, and then left in that state, all the rubber hoses will have softened and be prone to failure....
Title: Re: Oil Cooler Condition
Post by: Markie on 30 December 2006, 20:37:38
Quote
As its been obviously driven, and then left in that state, all the rubber hoses will have softened and be prone to failure....


its ok i have new ones already - thats why i never rushed to clean it  :y
Title: Re: Oil Cooler Condition
Post by: Markie on 02 January 2007, 19:35:32
Quote
Yep, its under the plate.....

You need to

1) remove the coolant bridge
2) remove the oil filter housing
3) remove the oil cooler to block fixings (by oil filter housing, 19mm crows foot spanner works best)
4) remove the oil cooler pipes to cooler banjo bolts.
5) remove the oil cooler to plate nuts
6) remove the oil cooler plate

Marvel at the joy that is thick mayo.......

I would pop the water pump out and flush it through realy well.......

ok ran out of time today......having a real problem with oil cooler plate nut on passenger side ( see pic red markings) due to lack of room and positioning off oil pipes ( see pic yellow markings).....clearly they are not coming out and my 30m socket that i removed one with wont get to the other...

(http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n54/markiec23/DSCF2983.jpg)

any sugestions on best methods anyone and do you get a 30mm spaner  :-/
Title: Re: Oil Cooler Condition
Post by: TheBoy on 02 January 2007, 19:44:50
undo oil pipes from near oil filter - this will give you more freedom.

Do NOT bend oil pipes - I fell foul of that one. End result was my leadlamp getting smashed over tunnies head in temper....
Title: Re: Oil Cooler Condition
Post by: tunnie on 02 January 2007, 19:46:11
ahh that little sod.

Myself and TB had real fun with that little git, i think we used a socket 30mm i think (not sure) on an extension bar. TB pulled the pipe over the gap, while I attempted to screw it in. When we finally did get it in, I sheared off the nut head  :-[ - Managed to get that out again, stole another nut from a scrappy oil cooler. Did the same and it went in again, after putting up a fight.

Don't torque it up as high as the book says, go a little lower. Officially your supposed to replace them with the cooler  :y
Title: Re: Oil Cooler Condition
Post by: tunnie on 02 January 2007, 19:47:48
Quote
undo oil pipes from near oil filter - this will give you more freedom.

Do NOT bend oil pipes - I fell foul of that one. End result was my leadlamp getting smashed over tunnies head in temper....

If i did'nt get that sheared bolt out, i was worried what was next  :o

Sorry markiec, ignor my last post it looked like you were trying to get the nut back in!?
Title: Re: Oil Cooler Condition
Post by: TheBoy on 02 January 2007, 19:51:36
Quote
TB pulled the pipe over the gap, while I attempted to screw it in.
Ahh, a 'tunnie' - every tool kit should have one....
Title: Re: Oil Cooler Condition
Post by: Markie on 02 January 2007, 19:53:44
no i am trying to get the one nearest the pipes out and my socket wont fit betwen them - i have had a little bend but dont want to go down that road....the engine is soooooooo well packed its really hard to follow the pipes to see where they go ( either from above engine or below)

Guess its going to be a case of taking the pipes off at oil filter/ housing side then to create the flexibility :-[
Title: Re: Oil Cooler Condition
Post by: TheBoy on 02 January 2007, 19:55:28
Quote
Guess its going to be a case of taking the pipes off at oil filter/ housing side then to create the flexibility :-[
You will need to undo pipes at filter to be able to get plate and cooler off, so its not like its extra work...
Title: Re: Oil Cooler Condition
Post by: tunnie on 02 January 2007, 19:56:42
Quote
no i am trying to get the one nearest the pipes out and my socket wont fit betwen them - i have had a little bend but dont want to go down that road....the engine is soooooooo well packed its really hard to follow the pipes to see where they go ( either from above engine or below)

Guess its going to be a case of taking the pipes off at oil filter/ housing side then to create the flexibility :-[

Yep, sorry i was just being ultra lazy and looked at the pic and started replying!  :-X

Yeah i think its just behind the oil filter on the V6's? Same 30mm nut, removing that should create the movement you need.

As TB said and yourself, DON'T bend them, i don't fancy a trip up north!  ;D ;) - Well no further than Birmingham for the cheap eBay motor.. :D
Title: Re: Oil Cooler Condition
Post by: TheBoy on 02 January 2007, 19:58:38
Quote
As TB said and yourself, DON'T bend them, i don't fancy a trip up north!
Dial-a-Tunnie does not cover North of Watford Gap....
Title: Re: Oil Cooler Condition
Post by: tunnie on 02 January 2007, 19:59:31
Quote
Quote
As TB said and yourself, DON'T bend them, i don't fancy a trip up north!
Dial-a-Tunnie does not cover North of Watford Gap....

 ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Oil Cooler Condition
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 02 January 2007, 20:06:59
Its funny because every time somebody does an oil cooler I say 'remove the pipes at the block end by the oil filter using a 19mm crowsfoot spanner' and every time people try to ease/bend them out of the way and every time it proves a swine.......

.....I'll shut up now.

I would remove as many hoses as you can and put them in a bucket with some water and water soluable degreaser in it......then flush through realy well.

Ow yes......has anybody noticed why you cant use the alloy cam covers on the Omega....I'll give you a hint....look at the oil filler position!
Title: Re: Oil Cooler Condition
Post by: TheBoy on 02 January 2007, 20:08:30
Quote
Its funny because every time somebody does an oil cooler I say 'remove the pipes at the block end by the oil filter using a 19mm crowsfoot spanner' and every time people try to ease/bend them out of the way and every time it proves a swine.......

.....I'll shut up now.
At least I learned from my mistake. I bet you've done it as well....
Title: Re: Oil Cooler Condition
Post by: Markie on 02 January 2007, 20:09:55
Quote
Its funny because every time somebody does an oil cooler I say 'remove the pipes at the block end by the oil filter using a 19mm crowsfoot spanner' and every time people try to ease/bend them out of the way and every time it proves a swine.......

.....I'll shut up now.

I would remove as many hoses as you can and put them in a bucket with some water and water soluable degreaser in it......then flush through realy well.

Ow yes......has anybody noticed why you cant use the alloy cam covers on the Omega....I'll give you a hint....look at the oil filler position!


 :-[ point taken you did of course already say this......i hang my head in shame  :y
Title: Re: Oil Cooler Condition
Post by: tunnie on 02 January 2007, 20:16:27
Quote
Quote
Its funny because every time somebody does an oil cooler I say 'remove the pipes at the block end by the oil filter using a 19mm crowsfoot spanner' and every time people try to ease/bend them out of the way and every time it proves a swine.......

.....I'll shut up now.

I would remove as many hoses as you can and put them in a bucket with some water and water soluable degreaser in it......then flush through realy well.

Ow yes......has anybody noticed why you cant use the alloy cam covers on the Omega....I'll give you a hint....look at the oil filler position!


 :-[ point taken you did of course already say this......i hang my head in shame  :y

As do we all !!  ;)
Title: Re: Oil Cooler Condition
Post by: Markie on 13 January 2007, 13:38:50
aaaaaargh

starting to hate this engine, theres just so little room to move.

Canister encased oil filter........what sort of magic trick in the toolbox removes this?

Theres a 24mm bolt at the front with an indentation similar to that of vectra oil sump where i use a t35 but none of these seem to do the trick...someone has mentioned an allen key ??... :-/
Title: Re: Oil Cooler Condition
Post by: Matchless on 13 January 2007, 19:30:37
I assume the cap has been overtightened and wont budge.

Use a 24mm socket with a breaker bar or T bar, try to counterhold the body with a strap wrench. Apply load to the bar then hit the end with a hammer, hopefully the shock will unstick the cap.

Sometimes the whole filter body comes loose from the block b4 the cap moves. If this happens then pull the body away from the block as you turn it and with luck the fastening bolt will unsecrew from the block. You then have to use heat / vice / strapwrench etc to separate cap from body. You will need a now seal for the body-block joint.

Dont use an open-ended spanner on the oil pipe flare nuts, you will squash the nuts and have problems refitting them. Buy or borrow a 19mm crowsfoot socket. You can use a flare nut spanner but you will need one which has the end slightly cranked wrt the shaft....straight spanners wont do.
Title: Re: Oil Cooler Condition
Post by: Markie on 14 January 2007, 12:26:00
ok been around Glasgows finest motoring shops ( ha ha ) cant find anything that i need....would either of these products do ?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Brake-Pipe-Flare-Nut-Spanner-Tool-Set-Metric-Flaring_W0QQitemZ150079833595QQihZ005QQcategoryZ30917QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/3-8-DRIVE-CROWFOOT-CROWS-FOOT-TOOL-SPANNER-SET_W0QQitemZ150079342351QQihZ005QQcategoryZ30917QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem#ebayphotohosting

thanks!!
Title: Re: Oil Cooler Condition
Post by: Markie on 27 January 2007, 16:10:18
Quote
I assume the cap has been overtightened and wont budge.

Use a 24mm socket with a breaker bar or T bar, try to counterhold the body with a strap wrench. Apply load to the bar then hit the end with a hammer, hopefully the shock will unstick the cap.

Sometimes the whole filter body comes loose from the block b4 the cap moves. If this happens then pull the body away from the block as you turn it and with luck the fastening bolt will unsecrew from the block. You then have to use heat / vice / strapwrench etc to separate cap from body. You will need a now seal for the body-block joint.

Dont use an open-ended spanner on the oil pipe flare nuts, you will squash the nuts and have problems refitting them. Buy or borrow a 19mm crowsfoot socket. You can use a flare nut spanner but you will need one which has the end slightly cranked wrt the shaft....straight spanners wont do.

never a truer word said......spend ALL day on this and cant stop the whole bloody thing moving......theres so little space under there.

I am just about to give up on this. Clearly over tightened ( air tools?) at last service  >:(
Title: Re: Oil Cooler Condition
Post by: Paul M on 27 January 2007, 17:32:17
Ouch... another one of those designs where you wonder why they changed something that worked perfectly well. With my first oil change on the Omega the filter wouldn't budge even with a filter wrench, so after about 10 mins I lost patience and hammered a screwdriver through it, job done. I'm really glad I don't have this wonderful new design!

Good luck with it mate, if you need a hand with anything drop me a line and I may be around. Doesn't sound like the kind of job where an extra pair of hands will make any difference though :(.
Title: Re: Oil Cooler Condition
Post by: Markie on 28 January 2007, 09:52:25
Quote
Ouch... another one of those designs where you wonder why they changed something that worked perfectly well. With my first oil change on the Omega the filter wouldn't budge even with a filter wrench, so after about 10 mins I lost patience and hammered a screwdriver through it, job done. I'm really glad I don't have this wonderful new design!

Good luck with it mate, if you need a hand with anything drop me a line and I may be around. Doesn't sound like the kind of job where an extra pair of hands will make any difference though :(.


thanks mate  :) your right though another pair of hands is appreciated but theres no space for them.

They really shoehorned that engine and thats the real battle. I need to get a different oil wrench and try to "snap" the casing by turning both parts different way.....maybe one day soon  :-/