Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: MaxV6 on 15 February 2007, 14:35:00
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Damn Damn Damn and thrice Damn and funky chickens.
Just had a call form the Garage over the road.
okay , My Elite's serious coolant escape....
Other than knowing that it seems to be coming from somewhere close to the bulkhead, on the mid to lower nearside of the Engine bay, right back at the rear... they cannot as yet find the leak without stripping out a load more stuff.
Since they're aware that funds are limited , and they're also short on time themselves (Builders start work tomorrow on their New MOT bay, so they're minus the work shop till Monday) they thought they'd call and see if i could garner any clues form you excellent chaps as to what might be the problem.... to minimise the time involved.
it also means that i won't be able to drive it anywhere at all at present.... which is a complete frigging pain in the arse....
ARGHHHHHHHHH
I REALLY don't need this right now !!!!!!!!
ARRRGHHHHHHHHHH 0a[38n vpoas89y4t cpw9s5 ygpowsy5lijqbntluszg l9ag49 q8!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Any brainwaves most gratefully accepted./
:-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(
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Whats hard about taking the wipers and scuttle off....then pressurise the system using a tester and see where its coming from....if its that much it must be a hose...
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Well, according to them.... there's the pollen filter housing and some other bit in the way on top, and the exhaust in the way from below.....
I think it's the combination of that and the lack of time.... given that by now even if they found it, they couldn't get the part today... and they're closed till Monday after 5 , for the builders....
Henry (Las jacarandas) has loads of Pipes... probably a complete set , but..... he's down by heathrow....
Bggrit.
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Have you had any work done to the HBV if you have could a pipe not have been connected properly and has now decided to come off so to speak
Maybe worth a look :-/
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cheers Nix, sadly that's the first place they looked, as they did replace the HBV for me a month ago.... but this leak is definitely on the NEAR side... and HBV etc is on the off side..
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Well, according to them.... there's the pollen filter housing and some other bit in the way on top, and the exhaust in the way from below.....
So basicaly they are not interested in doing it anyway......coz they are wrong....take the scuttle panel off having removed the wipers and you can see down the rear enough to get a better idle of where the leak is....pressurise the system and see where Niagra falls is coming from......less than half an hours work.
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and it's right up against the bulkhead...... or inside the transmission tunnel..... apparently
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fair enuff Mark... thanks for the tip off...
Hmmmm
What to do next.....
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unlucky mate and yep they are wrong...
There are loads of potentials in that area, HBV, rear coolant pipe, oil cooler plate...
Mark is right, scuttle off or just whip the inlet manifold off, takes next to no time
Good luck
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If not HBV I'd guess at one of the rubber hoses behind the engine, scuttle off and wipers off you should see.
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I'd guess at the big coolant pipe at the back of the block just above where the gearbox bell housing meets. There is a o ring in there which can fail.
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I'd guess at the big coolant pipe at the back of the block just above where the gearbox bell housing meets. There is a o ring in there which can fail.
Not known to fail....and if it did the water loss would not be a torrent....tends to be a very slow loss at this point.
I suspect a hose....maybe the throttle body heater hose.....the trouble with stripping the inlet is that you have to disconnect cooling hoses and it makes pressure testing harder....hence take the scuttle off and look as a starter for ten.
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Right perhaps time for a more measured and detailed description of the problem
while I used the term "serious" that is a relative term.... it's not a complete Niagra , empty the entire system in 1 minute jobbie....
here's how it presented....
over the last month or two, there's been a slow steady loss of coolant, but with no external symptoms to speak off, just losing a litre every 2 days or so...
then , the other day, I drove the 1.2 miles to the post office, and when I pulled up, there was a significant amount of steam escaping from the bonnet edges... on the front and near side and rear nearside
as far as i can tell, it only began to escape after the thermostat had opened and the whole system "comes online" as it were , after the engine reaches nominal operating temperature.
The Steam is obviously from somewhere low down , on the right (viewed from the front) near side of the engine... even I worked that much out..... and, seems to be right back up against the bulkhead from what the lads at the Garage told me...
their assertion was that even with the cowling off, and the system pressurised, they couldn't immediately or directly see where it was coming from.... fair play, they haven't charged me a bean for looking.... so wrong or not, at least they're playing fair and honest.... and My initial cursory inspection was curtailed as I couldn't see though the clouds of steam either... I'm guessing they pressurised it by running the engine, and weren't expecting quite so much steam....
They're quite happy to do further disassembly next week , and fix the thing for sure... but they're aware of my situation.. so they figured it would be in my best interests to let me have the thing back with their findings so far, and if I can sort it over the weekend... they're happy about that.....
Trying be fair, the Gaffer there is away on Holiday, and the builders start tomorrow at 8am building the new MOT bay.... so I guess they're trying to clear the decks while short handed, and figured I'd not be too upset to get it back un-fixed , I think they assume that because I live over the road, and they know we're a bit short on cash (that is also relative term.... we have income , but our outgoings right now are about the same as our income... leaving bugger all for emergencies or luxuries, or indeed, much else... )
, that they'd be doing me a favour.... they've always treated me fairly and well in the past... although not always as quickly as i'd like ;) so I'm prepared to give them the benefit of the doubt.....
Back to symptoms and the car...
There's NO ingress of steam or water in to the interior as far as I can tell.... hopefully ruling out the heater matrix and associated pipework...
I've consulted the Haynes book of Lies, and found it to be in chocolate fireguard territory... again..... no images or diagram showing what pipes go to and from anywhere....
and I can't see what's under the top layer of pipework either....
Xray specs would be handy about now....
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Running the engine to pressurise the system is not the correct way to do things in a garage for diagnosis....they should have a bit of kit that replaces the expansion tank cap and allows you to use air to pressurise the system...that way you can look for water.....
Trying to trace steam in an engine bay with the engine running and associated belts etc creating turbulance is a mugs game!
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My omega lost about a litre every few days towards the end of its lifespan. Turned out it was the coolant bridge between the two blocks/heads at the rear of the engine. Also sprayed water into the DIS pack and finished that off. :(
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Delightful.
I'm getting sorely tempted to Take a Sledgehammer to this frigging car.
then see if the insurers will swallow
"honest guv, I came out to it this morning, and bugger me if the "opps-up fairy" hadn't jumped up and down all over the damn thing... Dunno what must have got in to it... "
the rate of loss would appear to be 1-1.5 litres of coolant for 2 miles of little more than idle speed 30MPH clear road.
Probably won't make it to Brackley in that state ...
Will phone around in the morning and see how much a complete set of every piece of coolant pipe on that near side side and rear end of the engine is gonna cost.
replace everything, hopefully fault might get fixed....
Then find another garage to do it for me...
oppsing lovely.
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The other option is to leave it until we come to do the cambelt, it means a change in venue again though....
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The other option is to leave it until we come to do the cambelt, it means a change in venue again though....
Does seem to be a good option if thats suitable for all concerned?
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I'm only about 40 miles each way from you.
What are you doing Saturday evening?
I've got to service my own car, do a timing belt kit change, breather/TB clean and change my inlet manifold on Saturday, but if all goes well I will be finished late afternoon.
But providing all goes well with my own car - (which it should) - You cover fuel for 80 miles round trip (minimal - about 3 gallons) and I'll come up and take a look with you wihle I've got all the tools out - I'll want to give it a run anyway :y
We could remove scuttle and wipers and take a look downt the back at least. No promises, but 2 heads are better than one... Offer is there if you fancy it.
When is this cambelt party arranged for?
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I'm only about 40 miles each way from you.
What are you doing Saturday evening?
I've got to service my own car, do a timing belt kit change, breather/TB clean and change my inlet manifold on Saturday, but if all goes well I will be finished late afternoon.
But providing all goes well with my own car - (which it should) - You cover fuel for 80 miles (minimal - about 3 gallons) and I'll come up and take a look with you wihle I've got all the tools out - I'll want to give it a run anyway :y
We could remove scuttle and wipers and take a look downt the back at least. No promises, but 2 heads are better than one... Offer is there if you fancy it.
When is this cambelt party arranged for?
We would obviously need good lighting, not preferable I know but daylight will be gone.
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James, as ever, you are a complete Star, but Sadly I have a previous "work" engagement.... with a client... for Dinner and a Gig... But the offer is truly appreciated nonetheless .......
another billion brownie points for the man if you please Admin :D
I'll probably get the pipe-work anyhow chaps..... then whenever it does get looked at, the parts will be on hand...
I have the feeling that accumulating some spares might be a good plan.
once I've got the bits, I'll see what can be achieved "locally" if I can get them this weekend, I'll try and see if my Bro's free to give me a hand perhaps.... he's not local either.... but Blood is thicker than beer , just, and I'm already imposing on Mark & TB's generous natures as it is....
if it's during the week, it'll be a garage prolly... but no worries...
Dunno when the Cambelt party is yet James, it's entirely down to Their Saintlinesses respective Diaries....
as an interested, but perhaps not critical question.... Mark.... the pressure test gizmo....
how does it get around the Thermostat being closed when the engine's cold???
if the Steam escape happens immediately after the thermostat opens.... surely the garage would have had to run the engine to get that to happen before then using the pressurizing gizmo??
or am i thinking about this backwards somewhere?
Oh, and I'm told I should be interested in your V6 Aircon Compressor James... ...... I'll PM you shortly ish...
Best regards
Max
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God Bless Henry / Las Jacarandas
arranged a complete set of all potential pipes form around the rear half of the engine..... inc Spare HBV, V-bridge and all that malarky... , all the metal ones as well as rubber....
£25
he went out and put all the pipe work back on a stripped V6 to try and make sure he didn't miss anything!
What a star
will pick them up over the weekend..... then figure out next move...
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as an interested, but perhaps not critical question.... Mark.... the pressure test gizmo....
how does it get around the Thermostat being closed when the engine's cold???
if the Steam escape happens immediately after the thermostat opens.... surely the garage would have had to run the engine to get that to happen before then using the pressurizing gizmo??
or am i thinking about this backwards somewhere?
Oh, and I'm told I should be interested in your V6 Aircon Compressor James... ...... I'll PM you shortly ish...
Best regards
Max
Your thinking backwards...the stat is nothing more than a valve to stop flow, the radiator would pressurise from the return pipe to (the coolant pressure is fairly constant in the system).
When you pressure test the system, you pressurise the whole thing.....water will then escape from the failed point....it a common diagnostic method that you would like to think any garage/mechanic any good would do/know about.
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....it a common diagnostic method that you would like to think any garage/mechanic any good would do/know about.
So it's not something that your local fiendly Vauxhall dealer will do then? ;D ;D
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yeah but they will replace everything else that could be wrong first before getting it right and charge you an arm and a leg for it......