Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: tunnie on 11 March 2007, 12:57:10
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Something keeps draining the battery on my 2.2 facelift.
I had a brand new Vx Go battery put in around 6 months ago, I went to Slough last weekend and the car only just started, it cranked very sllllooooow and manage to start.
Did the run to Slough, stopped, did some shopping came back car started fine.
Went to give it a run today and it was very flat, it managed to get about 2 cranks in before it stopped. Battery jumper went on, crossing my fingers that had enough juice to start it, it did... just!
Another 20 min run and its fine again, stop and start and its fine. So the alternator must be working. (Volt meter at home so can't test here)
Any ideas on whats draining it? - I have an Active sub in the boot, but this as a remote wire which I attached to the back of the ciggy lighter, it only gets power when the ignition is on.
I can prove it by having the radio on, engine running I get the bass from the sub. Switch off the engine but leave the ignition on, the sub switches off.
Other possibilities suggested before are steering wheel controls draining it? - Head unit behaves normally so can't see a problem there. Also it randomly blows fuse 15 too for some reason, every 4 months or so :-/
Oh and that Vx Go battery I got, it should have a 2 year warrenty.... but I don't know were i put the recipt, can I just go to a dealer and say that battery is fcked give me a new one?
Cheers guys...
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Something keeps draining the battery on my 2.2 facelift......
Have you got a multi-meter? And can you set it up to read amps?
Connect the multi-meter up in line with the battery to check what current you're drawing when everything is 'off', & then start disconnecting things! :y
I have to confess I don't know what figure you should have :-[ but you're looking for any significant current drain.
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Something keeps draining the battery on my 2.2 facelift......
Have you got a multi-meter? And can you set it up to read amps?
Connect the multi-meter up in line with the battery to check what current you're drawing when everything is 'off', & then start disconnecting things! :y
I have to confess I don't know what figure you should have :-[ but you're looking for any significant current drain.
Good idea! - Stupidly i left all my tools at home, so can't do anything on it right now but thats a good place to start.
The only multimeter I have is a rubbish cheapo-crap-o one, think a trip to TheBoys might be needed when i go home! ::)
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The only multimeter I have is a rubbish cheapo-crap-o one, think a trip to TheBoys might be needed when i go home! ::)
Tunnie,
I have quite a few decent multimeters that I never use. You are welcome to one if you want one. You will need to get the test leads, but these are easily (and cheaply) obtainable from Maplin.
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Tunnie, just because that sub has remote power, doesn't mean its not pulling power all the time. Until you get back, if you're not using for a few days, drop the fuse in the engine bay for it to see if that helps. Same for head unit.
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If the battery drain when parked is more than a few tens of milliamps you'll have problems. Once you've measured the total current, measure the current at each of the fusible links under the bonnet (and the feed to your amp) to narrow it down. If necessary, once you've found the fusible link where most of the current is going, measure the current at each of the fusebox fuses, if any, that are fed by it.
The problem with feeding the amp permanently is that it may, as TheBoy said, have a certain current drain when off. This might not be unreasonable but when you consider several amps, an alarm, etc. it can add up to enough to cause problems. In addition, if you get a fault in an amp (leaky capacitor, etc) it drains the battery which is a pain in a car which relies on battery power for so much.
I would feed the amps via a hefty relay switched by the ignition feed or head unit rather than having them permanently fed and relying on the internal switching, but do the checks above and see if it is the amps first.
If the car is often parked up for a week or more at a time I'd consider getting a trickle charger / battery conditioner to keep it topped up.
Kevin
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Cheers guys!
x25xe might take you up on that offer!
There is a fuse that goes from the engine to the sub... that main feed wire I took.
There is also a fuse on the active sub in the boot, shall i pop that one off? - Its very easy to get that one off.
Good suggestion that, i'll pop those fuses off and see if that affects it :y
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Although I have no personal experience of it I seems to remember the reading that a known villan for this problem is the heated rear window relay.
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well just been out to the car, i have removed the fuse for the power cable that runs from the battery to the Active sub. (nice and easy to do just unscrew :D
I just started the car, and it started normally no lack of power.
Going to leave it for a week now and see what happens.
I hope its not the rear heated window, thats all tied into the climate control system!
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I hope its not the rear heated window, thats all tied into the climate control system!
I had the heated rear relay issue with my previous car (not an Omega). Basically, the wiring to the switch had been damaged and it was causing the relay to rattle on and off. The relay soon got bored with this and the contacts welded shut meaning that the heated rear window was permanently on since the relay was fed from an unswitched 12v feed.
This killed the battery in a hour or two though due to the rear screen taking about 20 amps. Your leak sounds more gradual.
It's also worth checking the battery voltage when running at a fast idle. You should see 14-14.5 volts if it's charging OK and it shouldn't drop too much with a few electrical accessories on (headlights, heater fan, wipers, etc). It could just be that the battery is not getting fully charged during the use that the car is getting.
Alternators can sometimes have the rectifier pack go faulty which results in current draw from the battery when parked.
Kevin
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I hope its not the rear heated window, thats all tied into the climate control system!
:-? :-?
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I hope its not the rear heated window, thats all tied into the climate control system!
I had the heated rear relay issue with my previous car (not an Omega). Basically, the wiring to the switch had been damaged and it was causing the relay to rattle on and off. The relay soon got bored with this and the contacts welded shut meaning that the heated rear window was permanently on since the relay was fed from an unswitched 12v feed.
This killed the battery in a hour or two though due to the rear screen taking about 20 amps. Your leak sounds more gradual.
It's also worth checking the battery voltage when running at a fast idle. You should see 14-14.5 volts if it's charging OK and it shouldn't drop too much with a few electrical accessories on (headlights, heater fan, wipers, etc). It could just be that the battery is not getting fully charged during the use that the car is getting.
Alternators can sometimes have the rectifier pack go faulty which results in current draw from the battery when parked.
Kevin
James did mention that I had a loud alternator...
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Another thing...
If you're measuring the battery current I'd put the meter in series with the battery and wait for a few minutes for everything to settle down before taking the reading. There's a time delay relay that switches off a load of electrical stuff after the car has been left for a while and this may give you an artificially high reading if it's activated initially.
Also, start on the highest current range (10 or 20 amps) and work downwards to avoid damaging the meter, and because some items will take a high startup current as the battery is first connected.
Kevin
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Cheers Kevin,
Popped the fuse of my Sub power, hoping that might be the problem and my bodge wire to the ciggy lighter (its just soldered to the back of it ::) . If so i'll swap it to the headunit.
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Although I have no personal experience of it I seems to remember the reading that a known villan for this problem is the heated rear window relay.
That and cdl motors. However, they kill the battery in hours....
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Although I have no personal experience of it I seems to remember the reading that a known villan for this problem is the heated rear window relay.
That and cdl motors. However, they kill the battery in hours....
The longest it has gone is 4 weeks before going flat...
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Although I have no personal experience of it I seems to remember the reading that a known villan for this problem is the heated rear window relay.
That and cdl motors. However, they kill the battery in hours....
The longest it has gone is 4 weeks before going flat...
I would say that 4 weeks is acceptable...
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If you can put the battery on charge for a few hours before you leave it that might be useful. At least you'll know it was fully charged before you left it.
Just checked and the quiescent current drain limit for a factory spec. vehicle is 50ma. That's enough to use 50% of the capacity of a 70Ah battery in 4 weeks, and before any additional items have been added.
This also assumes that it's parked up with a fully charged battery. How many miles does it do between being parked up and how many engine starts? It might be that it's not getting a chance to fully charge. I'd expect it to take an hour or two's driving without any engine starts to get the battery back to fully charged.
Kevin
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Thanks for looking into this Kevin, really appreciate it :y
Figures crossed its the sub, if not I will have to do some popper investigation in a few weeks. (got my major project due in 2 weeks)
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.....
and the quiescent current drain limit for a factory spec. vehicle is 50ma. ......
:-? :-? The what? ::) ;D
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I dont think it will be your active sub.....as you say it gets it power from a ciggie lighter feed....and these turn off when ign is off as you pointed out.
Check the boot light is turning off......and all interior lights..... single 5w bulb staying on is enough to drain a battery in a few days.
Tho if the new GO battery lasted 4 weeks initially.....and has been gradually getting worse....then it might just be that leaving it for a week or weeks at a time is slowly killing the battery.
Remember car batteries like to give high current for a short period and then recharged immediately.....they do not like being slowly discharged and then recharged and will shorten their life quite dramaticly.
If you carnt find the receipt for it....that maybe a prob taking it back......vx dealer will be able to tell how old it is and test it.....but doesnt prove which dealer you bought it from...but then that may not matter....so worth a go....btw i think GO batteries are 3 years warranty :y
If you do get a new battery for it.....i would suggest when you know you arent going to use for a week or two or longer......pop the negative off the battery.....lock the doors from the inside and use the key on the drivers door. Ok a bit of a pain.....and no alarm (no great deal imo) but i think this will help you from killing batteries
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I dont think it will be your active sub.....as you say it gets it power from a ciggie lighter feed....and these turn off when ign is off as you pointed out.
Check the boot light is turning off......and all interior lights..... single 5w bulb staying on is enough to drain a battery in a few days.
Tho if the new GO battery lasted 4 weeks initially.....and has been gradually getting worse....then it might just be that leaving it for a week or weeks at a time is slowly killing the battery.
Remember car batteries like to give high current for a short period and then recharged immediately.....they do not like being slowly discharged and then recharged and will shorten their life quite dramaticly.
If you carnt find the receipt for it....that maybe a prob taking it back......vx dealer will be able to tell how old it is and test it.....but doesnt prove which dealer you bought it from...but then that may not matter....so worth a go....btw i think GO batteries are 3 years warranty :y
If you do get a new battery for it.....i would suggest when you know you arent going to use for a week or two or longer......pop the negative off the battery.....lock the doors from the inside and use the key on the drivers door. Ok a bit of a pain.....and no alarm (no great deal imo) but i think this will help you from killing batteries
IIRC, the main power feed for sub is direct from battery, via inline fuse. The 'remote on/off' switch is taken from ciggie...
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I dont think it will be your active sub.....as you say it gets it power from a ciggie lighter feed....and these turn off when ign is off as you pointed out.
Check the boot light is turning off......and all interior lights..... single 5w bulb staying on is enough to drain a battery in a few days.
Tho if the new GO battery lasted 4 weeks initially.....and has been gradually getting worse....then it might just be that leaving it for a week or weeks at a time is slowly killing the battery.
Remember car batteries like to give high current for a short period and then recharged immediately.....they do not like being slowly discharged and then recharged and will shorten their life quite dramaticly.
If you carnt find the receipt for it....that maybe a prob taking it back......vx dealer will be able to tell how old it is and test it.....but doesnt prove which dealer you bought it from...but then that may not matter....so worth a go....btw i think GO batteries are 3 years warranty :y
If you do get a new battery for it.....i would suggest when you know you arent going to use for a week or two or longer......pop the negative off the battery.....lock the doors from the inside and use the key on the drivers door. Ok a bit of a pain.....and no alarm (no great deal imo) but i think this will help you from killing batteries
IIRC, the main power feed for sub is direct from battery, via inline fuse. The 'remote on/off' switch is taken from ciggie...
Ah rite.....wasnt clear in Tunnie's post......Tho i still think the weeks of no use is probably killing the battery.....if it went 4 weeks after fitting new battery and its now much less
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Batteries don't seem to like occasional use but recover if used more frequently.
My kit car gets little use in the winter but I give the battery a charge every so often. About this time of year it starts getting used regularly and it's often a pig to start for a few weeks and then it's back to normal.
Using a battery conditioner like an Optimate is supposed to help because they automatically put the battery through charge / discharge / rest cycles but you need to get a mains supply to it, which is OK if the car is garaged. They're also not cheap whereas the trickle charger I built from the mains adaptor from an old modem (remember them?) was free.
Kevin
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I dont think it will be your active sub.....as you say it gets it power from a ciggie lighter feed....and these turn off when ign is off as you pointed out.
Check the boot light is turning off......and all interior lights..... single 5w bulb staying on is enough to drain a battery in a few days.
Tho if the new GO battery lasted 4 weeks initially.....and has been gradually getting worse....then it might just be that leaving it for a week or weeks at a time is slowly killing the battery.
Remember car batteries like to give high current for a short period and then recharged immediately.....they do not like being slowly discharged and then recharged and will shorten their life quite dramaticly.
If you carnt find the receipt for it....that maybe a prob taking it back......vx dealer will be able to tell how old it is and test it.....but doesnt prove which dealer you bought it from...but then that may not matter....so worth a go....btw i think GO batteries are 3 years warranty :y
If you do get a new battery for it.....i would suggest when you know you arent going to use for a week or two or longer......pop the negative off the battery.....lock the doors from the inside and use the key on the drivers door. Ok a bit of a pain.....and no alarm (no great deal imo) but i think this will help you from killing batteries
IIRC, the main power feed for sub is direct from battery, via inline fuse. The 'remote on/off' switch is taken from ciggie...
Ah rite.....wasnt clear in Tunnie's post......Tho i still think the weeks of no use is probably killing the battery.....if it went 4 weeks after fitting new battery and its now much less
Yep sorry should have made it more clear, TB is correct big fat cable running from the battery to the sub.
Today i have removed the fuse... going to leave it a few days and see how well it cranks.
However it did have issues when it was factory standard, but it did have the battery for a 2.0 on it rather than 2.2 so i put it down to that.
If its not the Sub or Steering wheel controls, i feel it maybe the Alternator :(
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How often do you use your 2.2 Tunnie?
Alternator...i dont think....i think at the mo its just lack of use...
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How often do you use your 2.2 Tunnie?
Alternator...i dont think....i think at the mo its just lack of use...
Well at the moment, not very much... i only took it for a run today cause i knew it won't get used for another 2 weeks.
Usually its fine on day to day use, and left for say a week at a time.
I left it for a week while i brought the Senny down to London, came back and it started fine. I went to Slough last week, only just started and it had only been left about a week, again another week and its dead... so something is taking a slow drain.
Be interesting to see if the Senator starts when i get back, that would have been left around 4 maybe 5 weeks.
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If I do'nt use mine very often I Trickle charge it in situ. Lead out the window. You might be using more than your putting back especially in the dark. Starting. Lights on. Heater on. Short trip Etc = More out than in.
This could be the problem in your case. I would think that the extra load you have put on the battery, combined with the short charging time (ie short runs) are contributing to your problem. If you only start/run once a week or fortnight or month, trickle charge to bring the battery back up and you will have no probs. I had the same problem when I stopped using mine every day, and using for short trips. It's just that your using more than your putting back. I almost bought a new battery till I thought about it an trickle charged. Saved me about £90. Try it let us know.
Good luck.
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How often do you use your 2.2 Tunnie?
Alternator...i dont think....i think at the mo its just lack of use...
Well at the moment, not very much... i only took it for a run today cause i knew it won't get used for another 2 weeks.
Usually its fine on day to day use, and left for say a week at a time.
I left it for a week while i brought the Senny down to London, came back and it started fine. I went to Slough last week, only just started and it had only been left about a week, again another week and its dead... so something is taking a slow drain.
Be interesting to see if the Senator starts when i get back, that would have been left around 4 maybe 5 weeks.
I have the same with either car I leave standing for a couple of weeks or more. Both cars have virtually brand new batteries on them. I now swap them around more frequently. I agree with what crowman has said. I don't trickle charge the batteries though as I am too lazy to reset the radio, clock etc when the battery is reconnected. I just take the car for a good run which usually sorts it (and does the car good at the same time).
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I don't trickle charge the batteries though as I am too lazy to reset the radio
There's no need to disconnect the battery if you're using a well behaved trickle charger. It's only charging at higher rates with crude battery chargers that is likely to harm the car's electronics.
Kevin
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I don't trickle charge the batteries though as I am too lazy to reset the radio
There's no need to disconnect the battery if you're using a well behaved trickle charger. It's only charging at higher rates with crude battery chargers that is likely to harm the car's electronics.
Kevin
Which charger do you use? Car Mechanics did an article on battery chargers a few issues ago. I raised the subject of trickle charging whilst connected to the car and the general consensus of opinion was not to.
As I would like to be able to trickle charge which ever car I am not using, I would still be quite keen to follow this up.
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I don't trickle charge the batteries though as I am too lazy to reset the radio
There's no need to disconnect the battery if you're using a well behaved trickle charger. It's only charging at higher rates with crude battery chargers that is likely to harm the car's electronics.
Kevin
Which charger do you use? Car Mechanics did an article on battery chargers a few issues ago. I raised the subject of trickle charging whilst connected to the car and the general consensus of opinion was not to.
As I would like to be able to trickle charge which ever car I am not using, I would still be quite keen to follow this up.
On the advice of Marks_DTM I use this one http://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/product/details/atc12v-car-battery-charger
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Which charger do you use? Car Mechanics did an article on battery chargers a few issues ago. I raised the subject of trickle charging whilst connected to the car and the general consensus of opinion was not to.
I would imagine that they are covering themselves. A car electrical system is a fairly harsh environment anyway so most car electronics is well protected against spikes and the like. Chargers that charge at a high rate of current (say more than a few amps) may be capable of raising the battery terminal voltage above normal levels but a trickle charger typically can't deliver enough current to do so.
It is worth making sure the charger is turned off when the connect and disconnect it from the battery though. The resulting sparks if this is not observed can cause nasty spikes on the supply.
As I would like to be able to trickle charge which ever car I am not using, I would still be quite keen to follow this up.
I have one that's home made and another from Halfrauds that looks like a little black mains adaptor with a green LED on it. Can't find it on their web site but I'll have a look when I get home. I have a feeling it's made by Sealey.
Kevin
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Reading thru all this, can point at one very basic cause and a series of contributory factors and symptoms
The Alarm & Remote sensor.
Tunnie is not completely clear about this, but when you read over a few times, it becomes apparent that his vehicle is being left for a week at a time, sometimes quite a bit longer.....
and then only really getting a little use, before being left again.,
This is largely what happens to our Sintra as well.
What happens is ... when left for a period of several weeks, without being used or touched, the alarm and remote sensor drains the battery a fair bit,but slowly, in a manner that these batteries don't really like.... this is why the manual advises disconnection of the battery is the Vehicle is being "stored long term"
if this goes on for a long time.,.. it can damage the battery permanently, ultimately buckling the plates and any damage like that manifests in reducing it's ability to hold a charge...
then when you charge it, it appears to take a full charge, but 2 days later is flat again....
this process is progressive and cumulative... and it doesn't really reverse ... it can be just a little at a time... , but over time it will eventually become worse and eventually most obviously manifest itself in being unable to hold a charge even over-night.
I found that if the Sintra (Think of it as a V6 omega CDX , mechanically and electrically, sort of... ) is less affected if it's left unlocked and with the alarm un-armed (obviously only practical if you have very secure parking like we do.... when the Sintra is left in front of our garage, in a gated and fenced and locked driveway, with another car between it and any potential exit, it's about as secure as it gets....)
if it's out front though, i have to jump start it after a week.
the big american battery (with side mounted contacts as opposed to top mounted) is expensive.. and I now know what the problem is... so i don;t feel like forking out £80 every time it starts going "off"
Max
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OK, my trickle charger is one of these:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Draper-63147-Battery-Master/dp/B0001K9Y3S
It looks the same type of thing as MarkDTMs recommendation and it's more expensive... So I would go with that recommendation.
These don't do any conditioning - just provide a little charge. They would be fine for a car that gets left for a few weeks or a month at a time and will leave the battery fully charged when you do come to use it.
For longer periods of laying-up the battery needs to be exercised a bit. Leaving it on trickle charge can cause its' own problems. You can get flashy chargers that do this automatically for 50 quid or so but I tend to just put the headlights on for a few minutes once a month or so.
If you want to use something like this regularly it would be wise to fit a connector somewhere easily accessible so you don't end up relying on the croc. clips. Then put a mating connector on the end of the charger in place of the croc. clips. Make sure any wiring to the battery is protected by a suitably rated fuse though.
Kevin
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OK,
Cheers for the info - I will probably go for one of the draper units. For thing is for sure, I will modify the croc clip connection and make up some form of in line connetion system with fly leads permanently attached to the battery for ease of connection / disconnection.
Thanks again
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...the big american battery (with side mounted contacts as opposed to top mounted) is expensive.. and I now know what the problem is... so i don;t feel like forking out £80 every time it starts going "off"
Max, is there a type of battery you would reccomend over another e.g. deep cycle or similar?