Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: pete1666 on 09 February 2007, 21:20:00
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Hi to all, i have 96 2.5 V6 auto estate great car until today, while i was driving there was a squeal like the fan belt
was getting loose then i could smell burning oil when i stopped it was smoking from the cam cover, thought just a bit of oil,
then later on way home it got very noisy so i stopped noise stopped drove a little further then i stalled. i tried to start it
again and nothing is happening it just sounds like a quiet motor spinning, can any one help????? Cambelt was changed
about 4,000 miles ago
Thanks Pete
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Now I really don't wish to be the bearer of bad tidings but when the cambelt was changed, was the tensioner replaced also?
I have to say this does sound rather unhealthy....
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an obvious thought to me is the nasty one....cambelt.....tensioner...
Have you looked? can you take sufficient bolts from timing cover to pull forward the cam cover and check that theres at least a belt there firstly?
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Yep agreed. Smoking from the cam cover is not good..... sounds like the belt has slipped and was rubbing.
Where was the belt changed? - You need to go back to them and complain, I hope it was done at Vaux!
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Hi i hav`nt got the car home to check it yet, dont no where belt was done and i dont no
if it was a full change or just the belt. If it has broken what are the chances of the engine
being ok.
Thanks Pete
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Sorry to say slim - If the tensioner / belt fail - pistons can meet valves :'(
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Hi i hav`nt got the car home to check it yet, dont no where belt was done and i dont no
if it was a full change or just the belt. If it has broken what are the chances of the engine
being ok.
Thanks Pete
If it is cambelt failure, and you are lucky, you might get away with just replacing the cylinder heads. (You could put new valves in and rebuild them, which I suspect Mark would do, but the cheaters way on a car of that age (no offence meant) is just to get a pair of known good heads.
Obviously you would also need to replace the timing belt kit as a matter of course if doing this work, and also the Aux belt and it's tensioner wheel.
How confident are you under the bonnet?
Also where are you?
I've got a V6 with a good engine, that I'm going to be breaking within a couple of weeks, the heads on it are good and would be available if you needed them.
In terms of next steps:
First job:
Remove ancilliaries such as inlet ducting in the way of the timing cover, remove aux belt with 15mm spanner on the tensioner, 2 minute easy job.
Remove the outer timing cover bolts, remove the cover. Inspect the state of the belt and associated guides/tensioner.
If it all looks intact, CAREFULLY and slowly with a socket on the crank pulley, rotate it clockwise as you stand in front of it. If you can rotate the engine with little effort, this indicates bent valves.
If the engine is turning OK on the pulley, then try crudely see if its timed up.
There will be numbers marked 1 2 3 and 4 on each cam pulley. They should all be at the top, with the relevent marks on the pulleys aligned with the notches on the inner timing cover. Bear in mind this is not perfect timing, but will give you an idea if it's anywhere close.
If all those marks line up OK, look at the bottom pulley, and make sure that the notch on the pulley is lined up with the cut-out at the bottom.
If it is, chances are the engine is in time and valves will be OK -
If not, further investigation is needed.
If you do end up changing the heads, it's not a terrible job to do, but time consuming. I've done it once. (And having learned from the experience and as such could do a much better job next time).
Where are you? Very busy at the mo, but if you happened to be next door I'd at least help diagnose it :P
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I am not so sure about this one.....
May NOT be cambelt by the sound of things.
Smoking from cam cover? Coulkd just be the usual rocker gaske leak.
What i find interesting is reading through again. Am I right that YOU stopped the engine, rather than the engine stopped itself? AND you then were able to restart it and drive it? If so, did I drive ok, even if not sounding OK?
Were there any clunking, knocking, rattling noises?
Now when you turn over does it sound like the engine is turning over as usual, or does it seem much faster?
Is there any OBVIOUS damage at the front? ie aux belt snapped? slipped? Aircon compreeor siezed?
Although, reading yet again it does look and sound towrds cambelt slipped. :(
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I will be very interested to find out what it is...
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Quiet motor spinning is the give away here........normaly means no compression!
The question I have to ask is......if there was smoke and an awful screaming noise.....why the hell did you continue to drive it!
Anyway....if you undo the two bolts holding the top edg of the cambelt cover in place and ease it back so you can see the belt.....then get somebody to crank it over....see if the belt moves.
Check the receipt for the cambelt change and persue the person who did it. I have to say that its cases like this that make it worth while fitting genuine Vx bits because the warranty cover is considerably more comprehensive!
As for the heads....I definately would NOT fit new valves.....not without VERY close inspection of the valve guides!
I would re-build the replacement heads first with new stem seals, valves cleaned and re-lapped though....
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Hi just had a look cambelt its still there but the teeth have been stripped off :'( ,
would it be cheaper to get another engine put in or strip and rebuild? :'( :'( :'(
Pete
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hi been speaking to previous owner, he had the cambelt changed only and in a back street garage :'(
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I think you might want to speak nicely to JamesV6CDX...... damn bad luck old chap..
My sincerest condolences.
Max
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Unlucky, it's the one thing none of us want to happen :-/
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Hi just had a look cambelt its still there but the teeth have been stripped off :'( ,
would it be cheaper to get another engine put in or strip and rebuild? :'( :'( :'(
Pete
Mate, RIP... now get on the phone to that backstreet garage!
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hi been speaking to previous owner, he had the cambelt changed only and in a back street garage :'(
Yet another timely reminder that the belt and tensioners must be done.
Are you able to do this sort of work yourself, or will it be a garage job? If the later, I'm afraid to say it probably isn't viable, but worth ringing round....
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How capable are you at doing this job yourself?
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Garage job = £900 + (basically with all respect, more than car's prob worth) - not worth doing.
DIY - worth repairing if the car is otherwise sound.
Providing there is no piston damage, then you're looking at:
£80=£100 for a set of heads
£80 for a new timing belt KIT
£25 for new water pump
£80 for head gasket set (ebay)
£20 head bolts (ebay)
£5 rocker sealant
£8 oil
£3 oil filter
£8 coolant
Total cost = £329 DIY
I'm usually very happy to help out with jobs like this, and you're only an hour away from me. Unfortunately I'm stacked out for a month or so at least, and must fulfill promises I've made to other members,
But if you're still looking to fix it in a couple of months time, I might be up for a project top-end V6 rebuild
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hi just been to see back street garage they told previous owner that it needed tensioner but it would cost
so they didnt bother, i`ve been told the heads need to be machined if i get from another car, i could do the job
but lack the tools and time, I`ve been quote 250 max to change the engine then i got to find one? anyone got one
budget is limited?
Thanks pete
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Who told you that you'd have to skim the heads if they came off another car???
Personally that's not the case, IMO.
You can have the whole engine out of my V6 if you want it.
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Who told you that you'd have to skim the heads if they came off another car??? .......
It's called 'covering your backside'. If in the event that the 'new' heads leaked oil or water then they could say that they'd done everything possible to prevent it from happening. The garages I spoke to about doing my Senator's CHG all wanted to skim the head 'just to make sure' - which (for less than £30) is obviously what I did ;)
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not only that, but in my youth, when i were still playing about with tweaking engines and the like...... (before becoming a grumpy old git in other words) when rebuilding something "old" it was sometimes easier to do a very very light skim than it was to properly clean off residual bits of old head gaskets on old/high mileage lumps....
and it given the number of head bending designs over the years... it's also a potential means to discover you've got a bent head BEFORE you put the lump back together......
ultimately , that can save you money!
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Hi here we go, i have finally had a proper look at my cambelt?
it`s not snapped, about 5mm has stripped off teeth are still there
but when i turn the crank it dosent move the rest of the belt,
looks like the teeth have been stripped down there, as i turned the
crank (easily) i could here air hissing then it harder to turn,
any idea`s????????
Pete
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Hi here we go, i have finally had a proper look at my cambelt?
it`s not snapped, about 5mm has stripped off teeth are still there
but when i turn the crank it dosent move the rest of the belt,
looks like the teeth have been stripped down there, as i turned the
crank (easily) i could here air hissing then it harder to turn,
any idea`s????????
Pete
If it aint turning the rest of the belt, it aint turning the cams, so its definitely fubar in terms of timing at the very least - these other guys will know more I'm sure..
Sorry to hear about your bad luck mate.
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pete. if the garage has quoted you 250 to swap out the engine, i would take james up on the offer of a new lump... IMO an easier option... albeit not cheaper...
if i could find a garage that would do an engine swap for that price, i would be using them rather than doin the swap myself (as it apears im goin to have to).
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Pete, as per your PMs, reply now sent.
I'll take a drive down to Bridgwater and diagnose what's going on before you take it any further. I'll bring a spare cambelt kit and Jaime's compression tester among other things.. and we'll try and see what the best course of action is....
Cheers
James
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Hi just picked up an omega with 88,000 miles for £100 and a friend of a friend has
offered to fit it for £150, so all going well should be back on the road very soon,
now have a gls saloon for spares minus engine, will post whats any good soon,
But i do have a brink towbar for sale.
Thanks Pete
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Hi Pete... Is that Brink towbar the detachable ball type? I have one fitted and am desperate to find the ball fitting... Happy to purchase it from you for the price of the whole bar? How much are you after?
Darren