Omega Owners Forum

Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: Chopsdad on 25 April 2007, 21:18:44

Title: Not quite right
Post by: Chopsdad on 25 April 2007, 21:18:44
My 2.2 doesn't feel right :(

Starts first time, smooth idle at 700rpm, but when I pull away it hesitates just for a second and then picks up fine.  When the engine is cold and its coasting at 25mph downhill it misses and feels like its running out of petrol but never to the point where it will cut out.

Timing belt and water pump changed 5k ago.  New spark plugs and air filter 9m ago.  New fuel filter 3m ago.  Breathers clean as a whistle, throttle body nice and shiny and 3in1 added to butterfly last week.  Vx semi synth oil & filter 4m old and still clean.  MAF replaced 4m ago (ebay).

Fuel consumption not as good as other 2.2's on here averaging 31mpg on cruise at 75 mph.  And finally its been treated to Shell Optimax for the past 3 months too.

Any thoughts as to the unusual running?
Title: Re: Not quite right
Post by: TheBoy on 25 April 2007, 21:22:46
Check the usuals - air leaks etc.  I have a nasty feeling about coils, as the cpp modules seem to be failing a lot more than DIS now...

Any EML, as certainly the DBW V6 engines store misfires...
Title: Re: Not quite right
Post by: Chopsdad on 25 April 2007, 22:00:48
Quote
Check the usuals - air leaks etc.  I have a nasty feeling about coils, as the cpp modules seem to be failing a lot more than DIS now...

Any EML, as certainly the DBW V6 engines store misfires...

Not even a flicker of an EML.  Not even a misfire as such.  But as you know, when you drive the same road, the same speed every day, you notice things that others wouldn't.  If I got a garage to take it out it would come back with no fault to find sir.

If it was the coil, would it not be felt under load or any other time, such as idle?
Title: Re: Not quite right
Post by: TheBoy on 25 April 2007, 22:03:06
Quote
Quote
Check the usuals - air leaks etc.  I have a nasty feeling about coils, as the cpp modules seem to be failing a lot more than DIS now...

Any EML, as certainly the DBW V6 engines store misfires...

Not even a flicker of an EML.  Not even a misfire as such.  But as you know, when you drive the same road, the same speed every day, you notice things that others wouldn't.  If I got a garage to take it out it would come back with no fault to find sir.

If it was the coil, would it not be felt under load or any other time, such as idle?
Hmmm, yes, probably.

If belt had slipped a tooth, I think it would be more than noticably flat.

Sorry, can't think of anything at the moment.
Title: Re: Not quite right
Post by: Chopsdad on 25 April 2007, 22:10:51
Me either.

I'm worried that if I feed it normal petrol it may exagerate the issue and maybe I will just to see what happens.

I know Tunnie gets huge fuel ecomomy, but after reading that one of our Scotish friends got 39mpg on a run recently it got me wondering if mine does actually have a problem.

Thanks anyway TB


Title: Re: Not quite right
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 25 April 2007, 22:13:27
Sounds like coil pack to me to......pop it out and have a look at the laminations through the holes on the bottom side of the plastic housing....
Title: Re: Not quite right
Post by: Auto Addict on 25 April 2007, 22:19:24
Quote
Me either.

I'm worried that if I feed it normal petrol it may exagerate the issue and maybe I will just to see what happens.

I know Tunnie gets huge fuel ecomomy, but after reading that one of our Scotish friends got 39mpg on a run recently it got me wondering if mine does actually have a problem.

Thanks anyway TB



Mines not brilliant on consumption, but then it mainly does short journeys.
Title: Re: Not quite right
Post by: Chopsdad on 25 April 2007, 22:33:45
Quote
Sounds like coil pack to me to......pop it out and have a look at the laminations through the holes on the bottom side of the plastic housing....

Thanks Mark but you assume I know where it is and what I'm looking for  :-/

Coil pack is the long bit underneath the plastic Ecotec cover, held in with allen bolts iirc, but what will I find if there is a fault?
Title: Re: Not quite right
Post by: Markjay on 25 April 2007, 23:45:01
Quote
Quote
Sounds like coil pack to me to......pop it out and have a look at the laminations through the holes on the bottom side of the plastic housing....

Thanks Mark but you assume I know where it is and what I'm looking for  :-/

Coil pack is the long bit underneath the plastic Ecotec cover, held in with allen bolts iirc, but what will I find if there is a fault?

(http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/5638/22disgm9195819ri0.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
Title: Re: Not quite right
Post by: Markjay on 25 April 2007, 23:46:38
The rubber boots work like suction caps on the plugs, so you need to lever it up as straight as possible...
Title: Re: Not quite right
Post by: Kevin Wood on 25 April 2007, 23:59:58
If it's anything like the V6 (looks identical except for the extra coil) you can screw a larger bolt (M10 IIRC, maybe be M8) into the mounting bolt holes and use them to pull upwards.

Kevin
Title: Re: Not quite right
Post by: The Cambelt Kid on 26 April 2007, 00:00:30
Quote
Quote
Quote
Sounds like coil pack to me to......pop it out and have a look at the laminations through the holes on the bottom side of the plastic housing....

Thanks Mark but you assume I know where it is and what I'm looking for  :-/

Coil pack is the long bit underneath the plastic Ecotec cover, held in with allen bolts iirc, but what will I find if there is a fault?

(http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/5638/22disgm9195819ri0.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)


What the hell is that?  My old 2.0 doesn't have one of these... could this be the coil per plug upgrage on the 2.2's?
Title: Re: Not quite right
Post by: Markjay on 26 April 2007, 00:06:46
Quote
What the hell is that?  My old 2.0 doesn't have one of these... could this be the coil per plug upgrage on the 2.2's?

Yes, that's exactly what it is...
Title: Re: Not quite right
Post by: old cruiser on 26 April 2007, 08:58:49
When you take the coil pack out recheck tightness of spark plugs maybe one is loose in there.
Cheers Pete
Title: Re: Not quite right
Post by: Chopsdad on 26 April 2007, 22:04:21
I removed the coil pack and it looks like new.

Inside the plug well nearest the engine there was a little oil - but not very much and more likely a spill from refilling imo.

Removed the plugs.  No1 (nearest front of car) was sooted but looked ok, no smell and no oil other than a bit on the threads. No 2 same. No 3 & 4 both rusted around the hex area but looked the same as the rest at the important bit.

I've taken pics but with the wrong camera so I'll need to source some drivers to upload the pics tmz and you can have a look.

Q. Plugs were only new June last year and it's garaged overnight - why the rust on 2 plugs?
Title: Re: Not quite right
Post by: Markjay on 27 April 2007, 01:15:37
Quote
I removed the coil pack and it looks like new.

Inside the plug well nearest the engine there was a little oil - but not very much and more likely a spill from refilling imo.

Removed the plugs.  No1 (nearest front of car) was sooted but looked ok, no smell and no oil other than a bit on the threads. No 2 same. No 3 & 4 both rusted around the hex area but looked the same as the rest at the important bit.

I've taken pics but with the wrong camera so I'll need to source some drivers to upload the pics tmz and you can have a look.

Q. Plugs were only new June last year and it's garaged overnight - why the rust on 2 plugs?

Vx / Bosch plugs? What's the P/N...?

Title: Re: Not quite right
Post by: Auto Addict on 27 April 2007, 07:00:09
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Q. Plugs were only new June last year and it's garaged overnight - why the rust on 2 plugs?

Check that water is not leaking from the passenger side wiper where it enters the scuttle, and dripping onto the Eco strip.
Title: Re: Not quite right
Post by: Chopsdad on 28 April 2007, 10:53:54
Quote
Quote
I removed the coil pack and it looks like new.

Inside the plug well nearest the engine there was a little oil - but not very much and more likely a spill from refilling imo.

Removed the plugs.  No1 (nearest front of car) was sooted but looked ok, no smell and no oil other than a bit on the threads. No 2 same. No 3 & 4 both rusted around the hex area but looked the same as the rest at the important bit.

I've taken pics but with the wrong camera so I'll need to source some drivers to upload the pics tmz and you can have a look.

Q. Plugs were only new June last year and it's garaged overnight - why the rust on 2 plugs?

Vx / Bosch plugs? What's the P/N...?


NGK R BKR6EK - Pics of anthing I could see of relevance......

(http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o317/chopsdad/DSCN1213.jpg)
(http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o317/chopsdad/DSCN1212.jpg)
(http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o317/chopsdad/DSCN1211-1.jpg)
(http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o317/chopsdad/DSCN1210.jpg)
(http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o317/chopsdad/DSCN1209.jpg)
Title: Re: Not quite right
Post by: Auto Addict on 28 April 2007, 13:41:06
Did you check for water leaking through the scuttle?
Title: Re: Not quite right
Post by: Chopsdad on 28 April 2007, 17:57:28
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Did you check for water leaking through the scuttle?

Both scuttle are clear of blockages and drain ok.  The passenger wiper does leak at the base into the bay but it's a good 6" away from the Ecotect strip.
Title: Re: Not quite right
Post by: Auto Addict on 29 April 2007, 19:14:05
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Did you check for water leaking through the scuttle?

Both scuttle are clear of blockages and drain ok.  The passenger wiper does leak at the base into the bay but it's a good 6" away from the Ecotect strip.

Agreed, but if you ever park on a road with a camber, it will drip onto the Eco Strip, also, if you feel under the Scuttle, you will feel a sponge like material, that soaks up the water from the wiper base, and if it gets really wet, again it will drip onto the Eco Strip.

I sealed round the wiper base on mine with a spash of silicone sealant, never had a problem since.
Title: Re: Not quite right
Post by: Taxi_Driver on 29 April 2007, 19:52:51
Rust on those plugs shouldnt be there so double check AA's advice   :y

But what i would do......is change em anyway then see if the missfire goes away before any water gets in there again.

If still there....then i would go with TB's and Marks advice......coil pack  :y

Both my Veccies have coil packs as well......and they managed about 100k before needing replacing.
One used to make the car miss quite a bit....the other one just gives a cough at 1500rpm underload.....more than 2k and underload and its fine.

My omega misses on petrol and lpg when cold low down the revs also......worse on lpg....i know it isnt the plugs or airfilter causing it.....so i suspect its the coil pack on that too... :(
In fact its been getting worse.....so much that it normally puts the EML on for a bit when it switches to lpg.....but doesnt record any missfires detected.

Whats the mileage on your 2.2?.....Getting towards 100k? Coil pack  >:(
Title: Re: Not quite right
Post by: Chopsdad on 29 April 2007, 21:01:24
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Rust on those plugs shouldnt be there so double check AA's advice   :y

But what i would do......is change em anyway then see if the missfire goes away before any water gets in there again.

If still there....then i would go with TB's and Marks advice......coil pack  :y

Both my Veccies have coil packs as well......and they managed about 100k before needing replacing.
One used to make the car miss quite a bit....the other one just gives a cough at 1500rpm underload.....more than 2k and underload and its fine.

My omega misses on petrol and lpg when cold low down the revs also......worse on lpg....i know it isnt the plugs or airfilter causing it.....so i suspect its the coil pack on that too... :(
In fact its been getting worse.....so much that it normally puts the EML on for a bit when it switches to lpg.....but doesnt record any missfires detected.

Whats the mileage on your 2.2?.....Getting towards 100k? Coil pack  >:(

45,000  8-)  & it's garaged overnight and parked on level ground during the day.  No harm in sealing around the wiper base though.  Although the rust is odd, the electrodes all appear to be the same and look normal to me.  I'll pick up some Vx plugs next weekend too just in case. :y