Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: Taxi_Driver on 29 April 2007, 19:13:49
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On my 2.2, am i mad to even think about having a go myself? :-/
And whats really involved.....parts wise?
Obviously manifold gasket itself...
New manifold studs?
New gasket for where it joins to the exhaust?
Any sealant required?
Its already got 2 snapped studs and am informed that if another snaps when undoing them....then the head will need to come off to get them all redrilled and tapped......this bit is worrying, definately not sure about being able to take an engine apart this far and get it back together :-/
Or should i just take it to my local garage and let them have a go :-/
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Completely pointless fitting a new gasket mate, until you've got the existing two snapped studs sorted out
It would be a waste of time and a gasket
Unfortunately, if you've got 2 snapped studs, you need to address that before you can fit a new gasket
Else it'll always be blowing.
Sorry :(
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I am no expert on these matters, but my gut feeling is as JamesV6CDX says :'(
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Completely pointless fitting a new gasket mate, until you've got the existing two snapped studs sorted out
It would be a waste of time and a gasket
Unfortunately, if you've got 2 snapped studs, you need to address that before you can fit a new gasket
Else it'll always be blowing.
Sorry :(
Apparently the two snapped studs appear to have been glued in (well at least one of them! the other has disapeared) And have been glued in for quite a while. I have been told a new gasket might hold for a few 10k miles before it goes again.
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Completely pointless fitting a new gasket mate, until you've got the existing two snapped studs sorted out
It would be a waste of time and a gasket
Unfortunately, if you've got 2 snapped studs, you need to address that before you can fit a new gasket
Else it'll always be blowing.
Sorry :(
Apparently the two snapped studs appear to have been glued in (well at least one of them! the other has disapeared) And have been glued in for quite a while. I have been told a new gasket might hold for a few 10k miles before it goes again.
Looks like some monkey snapped one, then glued it in to make it look intact >:(
There is a REMOTE chance it might hold for a FEW miles with a new gasket, but I wouldn't put money on it
Seriously, I know from experience, one stud gone on an Omega, and you're doomed... you need them all torqued.. hence why I removed the heads from my Elite (each one had ONE stud snapped, and it blew like Paris Hilton..)
On a 2003 car - please don't bodge it :(
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Completely pointless fitting a new gasket mate, until you've got the existing two snapped studs sorted out
It would be a waste of time and a gasket
Unfortunately, if you've got 2 snapped studs, you need to address that before you can fit a new gasket
Else it'll always be blowing.
Sorry :(
Apparently the two snapped studs appear to have been glued in (well at least one of them! the other has disapeared) And have been glued in for quite a while. I have been told a new gasket might hold for a few 10k miles before it goes again.
Looks like some monkey snapped one, then glued it in to make it look intact >:(
There is a REMOTE chance it might hold for a FEW miles with a new gasket, but I wouldn't put money on it
Seriously, I know from experience, one stud gone on an Omega, and you're doomed... you need them all torqued.. hence why I removed the heads from my Elite (each one had ONE stud snapped, and it blew like Paris Hilton..)
On a 2003 car - please don't bodge it :(
I appreciate your advice James :y
It appears that the other studs have been over torqued to try to compensate....not saying by whom >:(
But bet you can guess!
Its for sale once fixed (ok bodged!) and obviously i dont want to go spending shed loads on it.
I will possibly have to go down the route of getting the head drilled and tapped anyway....but just trying to avoid that at the mo....
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What causes the bolts in the head to shear anyway??? Is it some nupty who had tried to tighten (or remove) them for some reason or do they just 'go'???
I have recently had my Omega serviced and my mechanic mate told me that there is a slight blow from the manifold when cold, but disappears when warm. He is sure that it is the gasket from the manifold to front pipe. I have ordered the new gasket and associated studs and nuts for him to do the job next week.
I have heard that the head has to come off to extract offending studs. Bit crap though this sort of stuff to fail on quite newish motors! :(
Dan
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What causes the bolts in the head to shear anyway??? Is it some nupty who had tried to tighten (or remove) them for some reason or do they just 'go'???
I have recently had my Omega serviced and my mechanic mate told me that there is a slight blow from the manifold when cold, but disappears when warm. He is sure that it is the gasket from the manifold to front pipe. I have ordered the new gasket and associated studs and nuts for him to do the job next week.
I have heard that the head has to come off to extract offending studs. Bit crap though this sort of stuff to fail on quite newish motors! :(
Dan
Sounds like you're in the same boat... sorry to say!
It's a common problem on the 2ltr omegas, maybe the V6's too?? I hope that i never need to do a repair job like that on a V6!
Anyway My 2.0 W plate sounded exactly as you described (noisy when cold but quiet when warm). My case turned out to be more than sheared studs and a shagged gasket; I also had a cracked manifold, which defiantly needs a GM replacement! About £100 notes from memory, not trade as i was a forum virgin at that time.
From memory I recall having x2 sheared studs to deal with, one of which was easy and the other was a right biatchh because it was one of the lower rear studs!! I removed the first one by drilling a little pilot hole inside the stud with a smallish battery powered drill. Keeping steady and taking my time. Once the pilot hole was drilled I used an extractor drill bit to carefully remove the first stud. )
The second stud being in a biatch location ruled out the battery powered drill as it was far too big for the small space available. So to get around this used my dad Ryobi ‘high speed, dentist style’ hand drill, complete with a ‘dentist style’ flexi-hose attachment. This enabled me to get right into the action and drill a small but accurate hole inside the stud. This worked a treat and again using the extractor drill bit I managed to remove the b****rd stud! )
I think on 2ltr Omegas the average driveway mechanic with the correct tools should be able to do this. It's not a difficult job in my book, more of a time consuming one. If you rush it you'll only end up making things worse. I think i did the studs plus rocker cover gasket in an afternoon. TD - you'll be ok with this, piece of cake! :y
Here is a pic of the tool i used to do the job...
(http://www.lawson-his.co.uk/images/Dremel/300je.jpg)
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Oh and for parts...
x1 - Gasket
x1 - Manifold (if needed, worth a once over if it's off)
x8 - Copper nuts. Need to be replaced as then deform when used! (so my dad tells me - never argue with Royces engineer!)
x8 - Studs, worth doing them all while it's off. What's a few studs worth? better to do a good job once!
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Oh and for parts...
x1 - Gasket
x1 - Manifold (if needed, worth a once over if it's off)
x8 - Copper nuts. Need to be replaced as then deform when used! (so my dad tells me - never argue with Royces engineer!)
x8 - Studs, worth doing them all while it's off. What's a few studs worth? better to do a good job once!
Thanks :y
And by the sounds of it the head doesnt need to come off to drill the studs out.....what sort of extractor did you use?
Cheers
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TD, I have to agree with the above posts. No point half doing this and hoping. Studs sheared off need removing. Grind off the existing stud flush then get a centre punch and hit the exact centre of the old stud. Drill a small pilot hole NO DEEPER than the stud goes! Then a larger hole, then larger again until you have either enough hole to use a stud extractor, or until you are on the inner edge of the threads, in which case re-cut the threads using a tap and die set.
Once replaced the new studs will pull the manifold in properly and it will be a once only job. Realistically? an hours work to remove the studs.
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If your manifold is not cracked....re-use it.....its will be 'seasoned' adn much less likely to warp again.....just get the mating face flat again before fitting (either take it to a machine shop or use a belt sander....)
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Thanks for the replies guys :y
Ron.....your 1 hour.....is probably a few days for me ;D
It will be done properly.....just sometimes I get fed up with it costing so much :( And a head off job sounds mega money. But sounds like it doesnt need it :-/
Now...you mention no cracks on the manifold Mark...Omegatoys m8 reckons it is cracked....theres like a 1 inch line on top of the manifold....he says this is a crack....but its not leaking/blowing from it.....is this still ok? or does it need a new manifold?
I nearly started having a go myself today on it......but problems on the veccyC meant I had to use the Omega to goto Halfords a couple of times....plus the problems ate up the day :(
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I think it would be worth doing a 'how to' on the maintenance guide!!
I will investigate my manifold this week but from what everyone describes I will expect the worst!! :(
At least you don't have to remove the head though, not just from the cost and time aspect but when your engine is in perfect condition and low mileage (28k), seems sacrilege to remove the head!!
Apparently, after speaking to my local Vauxhall dealer, this is a very common problem and affects other models as well (mainly Vectras).
TD - you will have to keep us informed of progress!!
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I think it would be worth doing a 'how to' on the maintenance guide!!
I will investigate my manifold this week but from what everyone describes I will expect the worst!! :(
At least you don't have to remove the head though, not just from the cost and time aspect but when your engine is in perfect condition and low mileage (28k), seems sacrilege to remove the head!!
Apparently, after speaking to my local Vauxhall dealer, this is a very common problem and affects other models as well (mainly Vectras).
TD - you will have to keep us informed of progress!!
Mine isnt on 28k....yours might be :-/ ....mines done 92k now
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I think it would be worth doing a 'how to' on the maintenance guide!!
I will investigate my manifold this week but from what everyone describes I will expect the worst!! :(
At least you don't have to remove the head though, not just from the cost and time aspect but when your engine is in perfect condition and low mileage (28k), seems sacrilege to remove the head!!
Apparently, after speaking to my local Vauxhall dealer, this is a very common problem and affects other models as well (mainly Vectras).
TD - you will have to keep us informed of progress!!
Mine isnt on 28k....yours might be :-/ ....mines done 92k now
Oh and should have added.....this is the 2nd time ive had exhaust manifold probs on my omega.
Both Veccies i have......one has done nearly 200k...other has done 90k....and no exhaust manifold probs with them....so dont think your vx dealer is telling you correctly!
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I think it would be worth doing a 'how to' on the maintenance guide!!
I will investigate my manifold this week but from what everyone describes I will expect the worst!! :(
At least you don't have to remove the head though, not just from the cost and time aspect but when your engine is in perfect condition and low mileage (28k), seems sacrilege to remove the head!!
Apparently, after speaking to my local Vauxhall dealer, this is a very common problem and affects other models as well (mainly Vectras).
TD - you will have to keep us informed of progress!!
Mine isnt on 28k....yours might be :-/ ....mines done 92k now
Yes - sorry bit confusing mine has only done 28k!!
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Completely pointless fitting a new gasket mate, until you've got the existing two snapped studs sorted out
It would be a waste of time and a gasket
Unfortunately, if you've got 2 snapped studs, you need to address that before you can fit a new gasket
Else it'll always be blowing.
Sorry :(
Apparently the two snapped studs appear to have been glued in (well at least one of them! the other has disapeared) And have been glued in for quite a while. I have been told a new gasket might hold for a few 10k miles before it goes again.
Ive seen this before, I bought a 2.0 which came with a brand new exhaust and receipt from quick fit which included a charge for replacing the exhaust manifold gasket, a few weeks later there was a broken stud and nut on the drive, it had been stuck in with body filler. >:(
"You cant get thicker than a Quick-Fit fitter"
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Completely pointless fitting a new gasket mate, until you've got the existing two snapped studs sorted out
It would be a waste of time and a gasket
Unfortunately, if you've got 2 snapped studs, you need to address that before you can fit a new gasket
Else it'll always be blowing.
Sorry :(
Apparently the two snapped studs appear to have been glued in (well at least one of them! the other has disapeared) And have been glued in for quite a while. I have been told a new gasket might hold for a few 10k miles before it goes again.
Ive seen this before, I bought a 2.0 which came with a brand new exhaust and receipt from quick fit which included a charge for replacing the exhaust manifold gasket, a few weeks later there was a broken stud and nut on the drive, it had been stuck in with body filler. >:(
"You cant get thicker than a Quick-Fit fitter"
Interesting.....
When I once asked quick fit to do a manifold (needless to say years ago) - they wouldn't touch it - they will only do downpipe backwards, for fear of breaking the head and not having the skills to fix it!
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By far the easiet way of locating the centre of the stud is to have a machine shop , or a friend who is a machinist, make up or turn a metal dowl / pin that fits snuggly into the bolt hole in the manifold !
Have a 2 or 3mm hole machined down the centre of this dowl/pin .
Leave manifold in situ, place dowl/pin in manfold bolt hole ( obviously over the broken stud/studs) and drill down centre of pin/dowl with pilot drill.
When all broken studs are piloted remove manifold and hey presto broken studs with exact centred pilot holes :)
As already WARNED , dint drill too deeply or you may strike oil :D
Measure a new stud to estimate the depth of the broken stud in head ! You can then mark the drill being used with tipex or similar with the stud depth !
Sorry i havent been round lately on this board, Omega is running like a dream, NOTHING going wrong for ages now ;D
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Completely pointless fitting a new gasket mate, until you've got the existing two snapped studs sorted out
It would be a waste of time and a gasket
Unfortunately, if you've got 2 snapped studs, you need to address that before you can fit a new gasket
Else it'll always be blowing.
Sorry :(
Apparently the two snapped studs appear to have been glued in (well at least one of them! the other has disapeared) And have been glued in for quite a while. I have been told a new gasket might hold for a few 10k miles before it goes again.
Ive seen this before, I bought a 2.0 which came with a brand new exhaust and receipt from quick fit which included a charge for replacing the exhaust manifold gasket, a few weeks later there was a broken stud and nut on the drive, it had been stuck in with body filler. >:(
"You cant get thicker than a Quick-Fit fitter"
Interesting.....
When I once asked quick fit to do a manifold (needless to say years ago) - they wouldn't touch it - they will only do downpipe backwards, for fear of breaking the head and not having the skills to fix it!
The manifold - downpipe had some of the bolt holes through-drilled and nuts fitted, I guess the original bolts sheared off so they tried removing the manifold to drill out the bolts only to have the manifold-head studs shear so the job was getting bigger and bigger. When I came to repair it I couldnt stop the nuts spinning so had to remove manifold and downpipe as one piece, the manifold was cracked which was causing the blowing noise.