Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: hol666 on 01 March 2007, 19:59:40
-
Hi, I appear to have a problem, a week ago, my omega just stopped, I was doing less than 20 mph. A mate called out the AA who diagnosed a blocked cat, the light came on when I attempted to restart the car, which did start by the time the AA got to it.
The only way I could get the car to to the exhaust place for a cat was to make a hole before the cat. I had the cat and lambda replaced and the em light is still on? The car starts ok from cold but is more hesitant when hot. Everything was fine before all this so I am bemused, any ideas please? :-[
-
Hi mate. :)
Best thing to do is check the fault codes first. See here: http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1152601768
Let us know what codes you get.
-
thanks mate, will check tomorrow and will post up the codes. :y
-
>:( getting fed now, followed the info on the paperclip test, it did nothing. my ecu is a siemens unit and the car is a 95. not even a blink, zilch!
-
shorted pins 4 and 6 and turned ign on?
-
shorted pins 4 and 6 and turned ign on?
My thoughts....
-
:-[ apparently, I was counting the pins the wrong way. from top to bottom and not bottom to top, apologies to all due to my screwup. when the rain stops I'll check again, thanks Mark :y
-
ok, have double-checked which pins to use on the diagnostic plug, nothing, not a flash from the eml? could it be the ecu is knackered? really am at a total loss now as to what to do next, surely this can't be an obd2 socket on this age car?
anyone got any ideas? don't want keep throwing cash at her! :'(
-
ok, have double-checked which pins to use on the diagnostic plug, nothing, not a flash from the eml? could it be the ecu is knackered? really am at a total loss now as to what to do next, surely this can't be an obd2 socket on this age car?
anyone got any ideas? don't want keep throwing cash at her! :'(
You are using the connector under the steering wheel, not the 10 pin cruise loom bolted to the osf suspension turret? ::)
-
yes sir, the 16 pin connector in the main fuse box below the steering wheel? Why? is there another way?
-
yes sir, the 16 pin connector in the main fuse box below the steering wheel? Why? is there another way?
No, that is correct. Some photos of the connector are upside down. Check there are metalic contacts in the holes you are shorting, if not, sure sign you have wrong pins...
-
Go under the steering wheel.
Pin 1 is the top right is you look at it (the side nearer the steering column). It will be empty (no pin inside).
Pin 2 is directly below (also blank)
Pin 3 is directly below that (blank again)
Next down is pin 4 (first one with a proper metal socket). Insert wire/paper clip firmly.
Ignore pin 5
Now insert wire/paper clip firmly into pin 6.
Turn on ignition so check lights come on.
Now the orange EM light should start to flash.
-
pretty certain thats what I did but will double check tomorrow. However, could there be a possiblity that the ecu is gone? engine does start and run but with highish tickover, thirsty and hard to start when hot. eml is on permanently.
-
pretty certain thats what I did but will double check tomorrow. However, could there be a possiblity that the ecu is gone? engine does start and run but with highish tickover, thirsty and hard to start when hot. eml is on permanently.
Unlikely.
-
Sounds like a faulty coolant temp sensor to be honest.....the codes do need reading though....
-
Try pins 5 and 6 if 4 and 6 dont work (in theory both pin 4 and 5 are 0V)
-
:'( ok, thankyou for your suggestions, I know it should work but it doesn't unfortunately!
tried shorting both 4 & 6 and 5 & 6 and then turning on ignition, first time the ignition lights came on and when out. This I assume is the test as per normal, each time after this, every time I turned on the ignition, nothing happened, no lights and definately no eml flashing. :-/
Incidentely, on mine, pins 1 & 2 are blank pin 3 does have a contact in it? I'll take a picture later and post it?
(http://www.picturehost.co.uk/img/8c11406237c156351dfa8bd6ba46dd12/06-03-07_1041.jpg)
taken with mobile so crap quality, top is left, bottom is right.
-
link for pic of the plug.
http://www.mypicshare.com/mizcivgqpic.html
am sure/certain I used the correct pins, so guess I'll try the coolant sensor and a general clean-up of pipes etc...
-
Can you pop the instrument panel out to make sure somebody has not connected the ECU light to any otehr check light....
For info, the pinout is as follows;
(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b394/Marks_DTM_Calib/connectorblue.jpg)
-
thanks for that! One thing the AA guy said was emissions?? I guess this would put up the eml permanently, so today I've under the bonnet and the breathers whilst not blocked completely, do need cleaning/replacing, so I'll do that. Plus, the icv and throttle body are, bluntly, filthy! Very ashamed I've let this happen! Also, coolant sensor was mentioned, do you think it would be worth replacing it, can't be that expensive?
Mark
as for any other bulb, don't think so, as when I turn the ignition on, it comes on and then off after a couple of seconds. As for getting the codes, I've triple checked exactly which pins to use and get nothing?
-
as for any other bulb, don't think so, as when I turn the ignition on, it comes on and then off after a couple of seconds. As for getting the codes, I've triple checked exactly which pins to use and get nothing?
An old trick is to wire in with ABS light etc, so that it doesn't show engine errors, hence why M_DTM asked. Check the EML is independent of other dash lights ;)
-
ok, thats fair enough, I'll check tomorrow. some bloody week off work I'm having!! :'(
would it be actually wired behind the dash itself? ie;- a couple of fly leads from bulb to bulb?
-
Yes....seen it to many times before....
-
ok, I'll certainly check this out in the morning and let you all know the outcome. TBH I hope this is the case rather than not being able to read any codes fullstop. I'd rather know than not, mind you I've owned her for 3 years now and this is the first time the light has come on, so kinda a little unsure, but will check anyway! Many thanks.
-
whilst stripping down the top parts of the engine this morning, I popped open the wiring panel which runs down the side of the rocker cover and above the inlet manifold and found this
http://www.mypicshare.com/pxsxwunjpic.html
and a close up
http://www.mypicshare.com/ljyvtdfdpic.html
the wire is brown with a green tracer, damned if I can find what it is in the haynes manual, although it does go to the ecu?
-
Ouch! That doesn't look too good. Good job you spotted it!
Are there any fuses blown in the engine bay or cabin fuse boxes? That looks bad enough to blow a fuse(!) and that might point to the circuit at fault. Failing that can you follow the wire down the loom until you find where it terminates?
I'm guessing it's only heading for the front of the engine so it'll probably be something related to EGR, air injection, knock sensors, multiram, etc.
Kevin
-
pretty certain no fuses gone, but when the engine originally stopped, after I stopped and turned off the ignition. I popped the bonnet and saw a small whiff of smoke coming from the area. didn't bother to investigate as the aa guy said it was down to the cat being blocked and was probably some fumes escaping? last time I trust them!
the lead def goes to ecu but will now trace back, I'm thinking odds on to the diagnostic port?
-
pretty certain no fuses gone
With hindsight, I'm not surprised. The wire gave way before the fuse by the look of it.
the lead def goes to ecu but will now trace back, I'm thinking odds on to the diagnostic port?
I doubt it would be routed around the engine in that case. It's almost certainly to an ancillary on the front of the engine, IMO. My guess is that something (egr / air injection valve, etc?) failed with a short circuit and burnt the wire out. If it's directly powered by the ECU it's possible it has damaged the ECU itself or other wiring around it, causing the paperclip test to fail.
That's just a theory though. Best to find out the facts, I.E. what was connected to the wire.
If you can't follow the wire all the way round the front of the engine I'd try looking at the wires entering the plugs on the engine ancillaries and see if one of them has a wire that matches the colour code of the burnt wire.
Kevin
-
looks like the brown/green wire goes to the purple relay in the ancillary fuse box under the bonnet. I believe this to be something to do with the secondary air pump according to what I can decipher from the haynes wiring diagram :-/
will I be safe to splice and reattach the busted wires?
-
If it's the secondary air pump I probably wouldn't bother reconnecting it. It's purely to speed up cat warmup and I understand they are prone to failing. You do need to disconnect that wire from the relay end and remove as much as possible of it from the length of the loom. It will have got that hot over its' entire length (probably hotter where it's wrapped tightly) and who knows what other damage it's done to the loom. I really would try to inspect the loom over the whole length of that wire because it may well be causing other issues if it's melted the insulation on an adjacent wire.
Failing that, try and get hold of an engine loom from a scrap car and replace the lot for peace of mind, remembering not to reconnect the air pump.
Kevin
-
ok, thats fair enough. I have checked the rest of the wiring and although some a a little 'scorched' they appear to be ok, ie no breaks or bare wires. I think I'll leave the sai unplugged and blank off the 1way valve and see from there, I will cut back and splice the damaged lead though, purely for my piece of mind however. thanks mate :y
-
No problem. Let us know how it goes. BTW you may well get a fault code if you remove the SAI relay since the ECU will detect an open circuit. I would suggest disabling it by removing the fuse that feeds the relay contacts or just by disconnecting the errant wire at the relay contacts.
That wire is probably the feed to the SAI valve rather than the air pump, thinking about it, because the pump is in the front wing so I doubt the wire would be routed over the engine. Either way, if it's fed from that relay, the same advice applies.
Cheers,
Kevin
-
thanks, what I've done so far is to leave the plug that goes into the SAI unplugged on the unit itself. The lead does appear to go into the relay, purple one if that helps?, I would be happier if I reconnected the burnt out lead, just in case. however, I am just a touch nervous about doing so ;)
-
Here's the Simtec 56.5 connector below the steering wheel in my 1998 Opel Omega B.
(http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/2956/simtec565cg0.th.jpg) (http://img211.imageshack.us/my.php?image=simtec565cg0.jpg)
-
thanks for that perplexer, got that! ;)
ok, I've re-connected the wire, left the sai unplugged and when I turned on the ignition, no lights at all, engine started up ok and feels better! But, I have no lights, tacho, nothing except a flickering battery light?? oh, and a very faint handbrake light?? now I'm just pissed off with it! I've checked to see if any fuses relate to the dash and nothing appears to? Any ideas, thanks. :'(
-
right, I have now tried the 'paperclip' test again, pins 5 & 6, nothing at all alongside the above. I'm being to think the ecu is gone? :o >:(
-
Might be worth doing a continuity test between diag socket and ecu...
-
I think you probably have one or more problems at play here and it's difficult to know what to suggest next. You have a wire that has burnt out in the loom without blowing a protective fuse, which is unusual. It may well have damaged other wires in the loom and perhaps the ECU itself.
I think I might be inclined to take the engine loom off the car, try and get a replacement one (and maybe an ECU too if you can get one for a sensible price, but you'll need to reprogram the transponders in the keys) from a scrap car then go round every ancillary in the engine electrical system and check for shorts before firing it up with a new loom and, perhaps, ECU.
Have a look at all the fuses as well, and make sure they are the correct values. The fuses should be rated to protect the wires in the loom, preventing this kind of problem, so maybe someone has had a troublesome fuse that's been blowing in the past and has replaced it with a higher rating ::)
It might be worth trying the ECU in another car just to see if it is intact but don't plug a known good ECU into this car until all the wiring has been replaced or thoroughly checked.
Another thing: Have you tried measuring the battery voltage when running at a fast idle? It's possible the regulator in the alternator has failed causing an excessive supply voiltage and this has caused multiple failures in the electrical system. Might be why the alternator light is flickering.
Edited to say: Another thing to try. Check all the earth connections between the battery, the body and the engine block.
Kevin
-
If you change the engine ecu, the car wont start, as it needs to be coded to immobiliser... ;)
-
yes, I can see where your coming from, but before I started to repair everything a couple of days ago. the tacho and all the check lights ie abs, etc all worked, I don't believe other than not plugging the sai in, I changed anything. And I did double check and check again, plus after spending £300 on a new lambda and cat, forgive me if I'm reluctant to spend more.
That said, if I pick up another ecu, would one from an auto be ok, mines manual, and how do I get re-program the transponder?
-
Anyone near you have a code reader, even cheapo Tech2 lead?
-
are you thinking that maybe I should call a mobile mechanic? I do know of one, think perhaps I ring and see if he has one, thanks. other than that, the only other way is my local vxl dealer who would need to 'book it in' plus £70!!!
-
It may be worth dropping James V6CDX a pm to see if he can come over and have a look, as he is not that far away from you. :)
-
thanks everyone for you help, I will contact James and see if he is free. But sadly, I think its going to cost me more money to sort out than I'm prepared to pay considering what I have already shelled out on the car! Will let you know what happens next? Many thanks Mark
-
Ok, the relay, can you confirm that it is violet in colour and is the one at the top left of the ECU box.....if yes, this is the fuel pump and injector relay....I suspect this is buggered (measure across 85 and 86 with a DVm set to resistance)......and you will need to check the fuse box area to.....for further damage....
-
Can't be any more than 20 miles from me, I'll pop and have a look either Monday or Tues nights I guess.
I'll take all my spare relays etc. I'll try to flash out the codes too.
MarkDTM, is the CTS on the 2.0 the same as the V6? If so, I could bring a spare.. If I can find them, I'll also take my 2.0 spare crank and cam sensors...
-
The relay is indeed the same....
-
What about the Coolant temp sensor?
-
many thanks guys, yes violet/purple relay! James, pm sent mate, thanks Mark
-
:'( for at least the time being, I've had to get another car, an escort, not a patch on the meega sadly.
the car I had been borrowing is no longer available to me, so had to get something sorted quickly!
I'm unsure at the moment as to the fate of the meega, am hoping to resurrect her soon as funds and time allow.
lastly, a big thanks to everyone for your ideas and suggestions, happy to say none involved matches and petrol, however I felt at the time!!! ;D
-
:'( for at least the time being, I've had to get another car, an escort, not a patch on the meega sadly.
the car I had been borrowing is no longer available to me, so had to get something sorted quickly!
I'm unsure at the moment as to the fate of the meega, am hoping to resurrect her soon as funds and time allow.
lastly, a big thanks to everyone for your ideas and suggestions, happy to say none involved matches and petrol, however I felt at the time!!! ;D
Oh no not an escrap - they are terrible
-
....
Oh no not an escrap - they are terrible
I passed my test in an Escort! (YTC 144L - how sad it that? ;D) :y The RWD cars were brilliant - in their day
-
Andy, I wish it was a mk1 or 2, it's a mk6 and used to belong to my ex! Tidy little car, a few cosmetics to sort but thats not a problem!
Am really hoping to get the omega sorted though, can't stand fwd but love rwd, after all, learnt to drive in a good old Chevanne!!! :y
-
:-[ Well, it's taken some time, but it would appear that the Omega is working again? I had to move it out of the way to get something else sorted out and had forgot to reset the windows and sunroof. The windows were no problem, the sunroof just didn't work? I thought I'd checked out the fuses originally but probably missed one out, which just happened to be the one that was blown!!!! I now have a fully working dashboard and more importantly, when I turn on the ignition, the eml goes out when it finishes the check! Oh, and now the sunroof works again ;)
-
:-[ Well, it's taken some time, but it would appear that the Omega is working again? I had to move it out of the way to get something else sorted out and had forgot to reset the windows and sunroof. The windows were no problem, the sunroof just didn't work? I thought I'd checked out the fuses originally but probably missed one out, which just happened to be the one that was blown!!!! I now have a fully working dashboard and more importantly, when I turn on the ignition, the eml goes out when it finishes the check! Oh, and now the sunroof works again ;)
:y
-
just got to take it up the road for a test tomorrow and see what happens? A nice quiet, private lane that is......
-
Anyone near you have a code reader, even cheapo Tech2 lead?
Sorry......only just reread thro this thread......im only a few miles from you.....and i have a cheapo tech2....so if you need codes reading again......give me a shout :)
Glad its working again :y
-
Anyone near you have a code reader, even cheapo Tech2 lead?
Sorry......only just reread thro this thread......im only a few miles from you.....and i have a cheapo tech2....so if you need codes reading again......give me a shout :)
Glad its working again :y
Thanks TD, I would actually like them read fullstop?? ;D As the paperclip test doesn't appear to work on mine????
I have an elm327 based usb reader but it don't appear to recognise tech1 unfortunately, just says 'protocol not recognised', the software is scantool.
TD, pm'd my number, thanks Mark
-
Anyone near you have a code reader, even cheapo Tech2 lead?
Sorry......only just reread thro this thread......im only a few miles from you.....and i have a cheapo tech2....so if you need codes reading again......give me a shout :)
Glad its working again :y
Thanks TD, I would actually like them read fullstop?? ;D As the paperclip test doesn't appear to work on mine????
I have an elm327 based usb reader but it don't appear to recognise tech1 unfortunately, just says 'protocol not recognised', the software is scantool.
TD, pm'd my number, thanks Mark
Paperclip test should work with the engine off, ign on.
ELM/Scantool will only work on OBDII cars.
Not sure cheapo Tech2 would read an early 2.0l, seeing as a real Tech2 won't. I real Tech1 may be needed...
-
Hi, Have been having problems myself with warning light. Joined this forum and have been getting lots of good advice. ( See general help- Noise on start up). I have found that with the engine running the warning light will not flash, however if you just turn on the ignition then the light does flash a code. Also it will only flash the code if the warning light is permanantly on. This is only what I have found myself following directions from paper clip test and linked pages.
Hope this is of use. I am still having problems myself and have yet to get mine sorted out.
-
>:( figured that one out already ;) still, it'll come in useful in the future I expect, when the time comes to properly replace the miggy. might try the pc test again and see if I can get it to work this time?? :-/
-
:D well, bugger me! The car spat out some codes for me!! :y
and they are
15 coolant temperature sensor voltage high
and
37 check light {fault code lamp} voltage low
anyone know what these actually mean? :-/ :question
-
CTS disconnected, and no bulb in dash for engine management...
-
:-? cts disconnected? I'll check that out but as for the light, it flashed??? so there must be a bulb in there? :-?
-
:-? cts disconnected? I'll check that out but as for the light, it flashed??? so there must be a bulb in there? :-?
Old code, or it does sometimes show up with other faults...
-
ah, would it be because whilst the dash wasn't working, I did run the engine to help to top up the battery?
And how the hell am I going to get at the cts? hardly any room to get my hand behind the block let alone see whats going on?
-
Either remove the sccuttle cover or attack it from underneath.....
-
:o attack from underneath!! Let's say I've felt like 'attaching' it at certain times ;D
seriously, thanks guys, appreciate the help. :y
edit: a quick question, if the cts has failed, would that show a 'disconected' code?
-
:D well to finish up this saga and probably this entire thread. Today, I fitted the new CTS, what a farkin' job? :(
sat on the top of the engine, after removing the scuttle (fun?), and working blind... still all done now and runs a treat! :y
And to cap it off, another trip to halfrauds for get a new washer pump as it had seized up, how much for a tiny pump??? Good job I've got a HTC...
Finally, major thankyou's are in order to everyone here who has provided help on this 'problem', I greatly appreciate it. :y
-
:D well to finish up this saga and probably this entire thread. Today, I fitted the new CTS, what a farkin' job? :(
sat on the top of the engine, after removing the scuttle (fun?), and working blind... still all done now and runs a treat! :y
And to cap it off, another trip to halfrauds for get a new washer pump as it had seized up, how much for a tiny pump??? Good job I've got a HTC...
Finally, major thankyou's are in order to everyone here who has provided help on this 'problem', I greatly appreciate it. :y
Glad its sorted :y