Omega Owners Forum

Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: TheBoy on 13 May 2007, 17:02:47

Title: Does antifreeze affect cooling ability
Post by: TheBoy on 13 May 2007, 17:02:47
ie, raise boiling point etc?

I thought it did, but thought I would check.


Is it OK to run the tractor without antifreeze until I have down some more flushes, probably with Fernox later this week?  This heap is costing me a small fortune in antifreeze - every flush is about £15 - £25 (£5 - £15 for the flush, £10 in antifreeze).
Title: Re: Does antifreeze affect cooling ability
Post by: michael_de on 13 May 2007, 17:06:44
anti freeze does raise the boiling point , but its also a corrosion inhibitor , however i wouldn't see an issue short term provided there is no frost .

cheers
Title: Re: Does antifreeze affect cooling ability
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 13 May 2007, 17:14:00
Couple of weeks with low miles should be ok.. but don't run it for long without a 50 50 mix in there

I'm sure it does raise the boil point
Title: Re: Does antifreeze affect cooling ability
Post by: TheBoy on 13 May 2007, 17:26:54
Quote
anti freeze does raise the boiling point , but its also a corrosion inhibitor , however i wouldn't see an issue short term provided there is no frost .

cheers
Yes, fully aware its a corrosion inhibitor :y

I just need to try flushing through with more and more powerful chemicals until I have got the cooling issues sorted, and hence do not want to put in antifreeze each time...
Title: Re: Does antifreeze affect cooling ability
Post by: michael_de on 13 May 2007, 17:27:35
50/50 mix of ethylene glycol has many advantages over pure water , melting freezing boiling points , but also the pressure is greatly reduced within the system , the flow rate is increased and the weight is reduced ,

this link gives all properties in relation to mix ratio in comparrison to pure water,

hope it helps


http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/ethylene-glycol-d_146.html
Title: Re: Does antifreeze affect cooling ability
Post by: TheBoy on 13 May 2007, 17:31:57
Quote
50/50 mix of ethylene glycol has many advantages over pure water , melting freezing boiling points , but also the pressure is greatly reduced within the system , the flow rate is increased and the weight is reduced ,

this link gives all properties in relation to mix ratio in comparrison to pure water,

hope it helps


http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/ethylene-glycol-d_146.html
Thanks.

Trouble is, as said earlier, I am trying stronger and stronger chemicals almost on a daily basis to solve the cooling issues, and hence the cost of the antifreeze is becoming an issue....
Title: Re: Does antifreeze affect cooling ability
Post by: Markjay on 13 May 2007, 17:32:17
Ethylene Glycol does has a higher boiling point than water, but other than in extreme hot conditions this shroud not affect cooling (the water's boiling point is already somewhat raised by the pressure). However it is also oily so lubricates the water-pump, and therefore running the engine on water only is only recommended as temporary solution. As for scale prevention and rust inhibitors which are added in the antifreeze, these could be added separately to the water (sometimes sold at motor factors as 'coolant restorers'). In short, running the engine on water for a few days should not be a problem...
Title: Re: Does antifreeze affect cooling ability
Post by: Dave-C on 13 May 2007, 18:22:05
Quote
Ethylene Glycol does has a higher boiling point than water, but other than in extreme hot conditions this shroud not affect cooling (the water's boiling point is already somewhat raised by the pressure). However it is also oily so lubricates the water-pump, and therefore running the engine on water only is only recommended as temporary solution. As for scale prevention and rust inhibitors which are added in the antifreeze, these could be added separately to the water (sometimes sold at motor factors as 'coolant restorers'). In short, running the engine on water for a few days should not be a problem...

TB Pop an egg cup full of brake fluid in with the water,  prtects the inners of the rubber pipes and lubricates the pump too..

DC
Title: Re: Does antifreeze affect cooling ability
Post by: TheBoy on 13 May 2007, 19:01:48
Quote
Quote
Ethylene Glycol does has a higher boiling point than water, but other than in extreme hot conditions this shroud not affect cooling (the water's boiling point is already somewhat raised by the pressure). However it is also oily so lubricates the water-pump, and therefore running the engine on water only is only recommended as temporary solution. As for scale prevention and rust inhibitors which are added in the antifreeze, these could be added separately to the water (sometimes sold at motor factors as 'coolant restorers'). In short, running the engine on water for a few days should not be a problem...

TB Pop an egg cup full of brake fluid in with the water,  prtects the inners of the rubber pipes and lubricates the pump too..

DC
Won't that make a real mess when it blows its cap (which it will)....
Title: Re: Does antifreeze affect cooling ability
Post by: Dave-C on 13 May 2007, 19:20:58
Quote
Quote
Quote
Ethylene Glycol does has a higher boiling point than water, but other than in extreme hot conditions this shroud not affect cooling (the water's boiling point is already somewhat raised by the pressure). However it is also oily so lubricates the water-pump, and therefore running the engine on water only is only recommended as temporary solution. As for scale prevention and rust inhibitors which are added in the antifreeze, these could be added separately to the water (sometimes sold at motor factors as 'coolant restorers'). In short, running the engine on water for a few days should not be a problem...

TB Pop an egg cup full of brake fluid in with the water,  prtects the inners of the rubber pipes and lubricates the pump too..

DC
Won't that make a real mess when it blows its cap (which it will)....


There's always Nitromorse!!!!!   ;D ;D ;D  Sorry TB, just being flippant.........

DC :-*
Title: Re: Does antifreeze affect cooling ability
Post by: Markie on 13 May 2007, 19:58:40
obviously alredy answered but todays coolant flush got me thinking this would be the case.

My new 50-50 mix of red today and i could swear the car temperature raised slower ( not that there was ever an issue)
Title: Re: Does antifreeze affect cooling ability
Post by: Andy B on 13 May 2007, 22:38:48
Quote
....
TB Pop an egg cup full of brake fluid in with the water,  prtects the inners of the rubber pipes and lubricates the pump too..

DC

I'm not on my own then in having heard of this - I've used it in tha past as a short term 'cure' for a squeaking water pump.
Title: Re: Does antifreeze affect cooling ability
Post by: Kevin Wood on 13 May 2007, 23:02:51
Antifreeze actually slightly reduces the ability of the water to absorb heat since it reduces its' density (this is why many people with marginal cooling in tuned engines ditch the antifreeze and use water wetter to prevent corrosion), but it also raises the boiling point and prevents corrosion as others have said.

Long term it would cause corrosion inside the water jacket of a mixed metal engine but given that you'll be flushing it wilth chemicals that will hopefully break that down I can't see a problem with running around on it temporarily.

It certainly doesn't make sense to keep having to pour new antifreeze down the drain so I'd go for it until it's behaving.

Kevin
Title: Re: Does antifreeze affect cooling ability
Post by: Markjay on 13 May 2007, 23:37:44
Quote
Antifreeze actually slightly reduces the ability of the water to absorb heat since it reduces its' density (this is why many people with marginal cooling in tuned engines ditch the antifreeze and use water wetter to prevent corrosion), but it also raises the boiling point and prevents corrosion as others have said...

The reduction in density and increase in boiling point actually work against each other. Apparently some boffins tested it and the best cooling is achieved with around 60% MEG and 40% water - if you go for a richer antifreeze solution the cooling ability actually starts going down again... so 100% MEG for example is not a good coolant.


Title: Re: Does antifreeze affect cooling ability
Post by: Dave-C on 14 May 2007, 19:23:29
Any progress?

Dave C
Title: Re: Does antifreeze affect cooling ability
Post by: azzbo on 15 May 2007, 22:03:32
 :)any joy dude sussed it yet
Title: Re: Does antifreeze affect cooling ability
Post by: TheBoy on 15 May 2007, 22:16:16
Quote
:)any joy dude sussed it yet
Sorry, other things have taken precedence this evening, so haven't even looked.
Title: Re: Does antifreeze affect cooling ability
Post by: curly on 15 May 2007, 22:54:23
hi mate,if you add to much antifreeze to the system it can slow the cooling down as it becomes thicker the hotter it gets,so on omegas normally the coolant should run at 50% which normally equates for a v6 3litres to be added on a complete drain off,2litres on 2.0ltr&2.2 16v drain&refill,i take it you have some form of blockage/corrosion?overheating?little trick i have used more so older cars were heater rads block is buy a bottle of caustic soda,get an old watering can/bucket,add 50%water (cold)then carefully add 50%of the soda toit and it builds up heat add it slowly to the empty system and fill it till just see it in header tank leave 4 15mins release from system,dont start engine with this in??get garden hose and flush out crap,then back flush it from the hose that released it,,curly up through header tank,if you had a blockage that should sort it,note do not get the solution on skin as it burns ok mate
Title: Re: Does antifreeze affect cooling ability
Post by: TheBoy on 15 May 2007, 23:01:50
Quote
hi mate,if you add to much antifreeze to the system it can slow the cooling down as it becomes thicker the hotter it gets,so on omegas normally the coolant should run at 50% which normally equates for a v6 3litres to be added on a complete drain off,2litres on 2.0ltr&2.2 16v drain&refill,i take it you have some form of blockage/corrosion?overheating?little trick i have used more so older cars were heater rads block is buy a bottle of caustic soda,get an old watering can/bucket,add 50%water (cold)then carefully add 50%of the soda toit and it builds up heat add it slowly to the empty system and fill it till just see it in header tank leave 4 15mins release from system,dont start engine with this in??get garden hose and flush out crap,then back flush it from the hose that released it,,curly up through header tank,if you had a blockage that should sort it,note do not get the solution on skin as it burns ok mate
I am concerned that caustic soda may be too strong. I'm going to try Fernox (central heating cleaner first).  If that doesn't work, I may well try the caustic soda :y