Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: Raf on 20 April 2007, 15:44:18
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Hi all i was hoping someone can point me in the right direction:
my car is an Omega 2.2DTi on a 51 plate.
(also posted on VXON...)
just as im preparing to sell the old girl she decided to make her feelings felt!
i was going to the airport yesterday to drop my brother off and on the way down i could feel the car skipping a beat but very faintly... i could notice but my bro didnt until we were travelling at lower speed then there was a definate jerk (power cuts out)... no EML at this point. there was a slight puff of smoke i noticed but this could be unburnt diesel.
anyway i got to the airport had a peek around the engine bay and all seemed well (couldnt see any pipes loose; fluids ok...etc). the only thing i had done prior to this problem was put some diesel in her but now im thinking perhaps i put petrol in instead? at the airport i filled her up with diesel so i would say i had in the tank £50 diesel & £10 suspected petrol???
on the way back the stuttering/cutting out was more frequent; i noticed that when you put your foot down hard (but not very hard) it did it more often. when i got close to home i put the car in 4th gear to see if it would rev up. when it got to 4k revs the EML light would come on and the car would power down (like there was no accelerator being applied). then the EML would go out. i only did this once.
any one had similar probs or shed any light on the issue?
all advise IMMENSLEY appreciated...
oh; i have washed the engine but that was a week ago and i have done around 50-60 miles since then with no probs...
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Hi all i was hoping someone can point me in the right direction:
my car is an Omega 2.2DTi on a 51 plate.
(also posted on VXON...)
just as im preparing to sell the old girl she decided to make her feelings felt!
i was going to the airport yesterday to drop my brother off and on the way down i could feel the car skipping a beat but very faintly... i could notice but my bro didnt until we were travelling at lower speed then there was a definate jerk (power cuts out)... no EML at this point. there was a slight puff of smoke i noticed but this could be unburnt diesel.
anyway i got to the airport had a peek around the engine bay and all seemed well (couldnt see any pipes loose; fluids ok...etc). the only thing i had done prior to this problem was put some diesel in her but now im thinking perhaps i put petrol in instead? at the airport i filled her up with diesel so i would say i had in the tank £50 diesel & £10 suspected petrol???
on the way back the stuttering/cutting out was more frequent; i noticed that when you put your foot down hard (but not very hard) it did it more often. when i got close to home i put the car in 4th gear to see if it would rev up. when it got to 4k revs the EML light would come on and the car would power down (like there was no accelerator being applied). then the EML would go out. i only did this once.
any one had similar probs or shed any light on the issue?
all advise IMMENSLEY appreciated...
oh; i have washed the engine but that was a week ago and i have done around 50-60 miles since then with no probs...
I'd have expected petrol to conk it out completely, as was the case when my housemate filled his pickup up with 50 quids worth of unleaded instead of diesal - we had to drain the entire fuel system, refilled with diesal and it was fine..
If you washed the engine, did you jetwash it, and if yes did you cover electrical components? It may not be immediately apparent after washing, until corrosion starts on some of the insides of electrical components - then it starts to all go wrong.
I'm not sure if you can on the diesal, but you need to read the fault codes out - on earlier models theres a paperclip short you can do so you can do it yourself rather than pay a dealer. Someone else here should be able to confirm you..
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my initial thoughts are (after some searching & surfing although there isnt alot of info out there on 2.2 diesel engine):
vacuum hose of some sort; could be the one that controls the boost (not sure where it is though), i could have a boost leak when under full load?
sensor of some sort.... perhaps the crank/cam???? car idles properly with no fluctuation of RPM.
i cant paperclip test and ive never had codes read (partly becuase i live deep in the pennines and there arent many decent garages round here)...
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Hi ClarCE, sorry i was writing my 2nd post before i read yours.
When washing i did cover elec components; used gunk spray and jet wash to wash the engine, ive washed a few before so i didnt really go all out and held the nozzle some distance so that the force of the jet doesnt dislodge anything... but your thoughts on corrosion are quite correct; i will have a look at some connectors too.
i cant do the paperclip test i dont think; i need to find a good Indy; will look at the back of Autotrader to see if i can travel upto one; dont really want to travel too far incase it gets worse; does appear to be getting worse.
we do have one who is apparantly Bosch approved and on my dads 530d he changed the MAF; re-con'd 6 injectors, changed the boost solonoid, O2 sensors & the car isnt quite right. he just reads codes and changes whatever faults are shown... and i know some sensors will log faults even though they are okay (usually caused by something else faulty).
oh and my dad has put petrol in my car before; but he realised when he had put £13 odd pounds in; i just filled it with diesel (luckily these have big tanks so the petrol could dilute more) and it was fine; i changed the fuel filter as a precaution but £50 worth would require to drain the tank.
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i had a good look around the engine bay earlier and i cant find anything a miss, took it for a run and it seems better (i.e. not as frequent) but as it gets warmer it appears to become more frequent.
on the motorway in 4th gear @ 4k revs the engine light comes on and the revs back off even if the throttle is still applied... engine light does go off once the revs have dropped to about 3500 rpm.
another observation; when driving light footedly its not too bad but we have a lot of hills around here so when i apply throttle at low revs i do get a jerk or two; but its not consistent... i can set off on a steep hill and its fine sometimes...
at the moment it does appear to be holding out; but i have a feeling if it is a sensor its on its last legs... after reading through here last night i dont think it would be the crank (as it doesnt stall); perhaps the cam sensor but im not sure. i did find a post on the MAP (manifold absolute pressure) sensor... what does this sensor do and could it be this one?
sorry for the long post
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bump
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Firstly, you realy do need to get the stored code read from the ECU....clearly there will be one as the ECU light has been lit...
I would be inspecting closely all the vaccum lines around the engine....and also checking vac pressure with a gauge...
Also worth inspecting carefuly the inlet ducting all the way to the manifold...via the turbo and intercooler...
I personaly am suspecting a turbo problem.....
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Should have also asked, where are you....any where near Milton Keynes....
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Hi Mark; thanks for getting back to me ( arghhh not the turbo :()
i have it booked in at an indy who has one of those scanners so hopefully i should get some codes. i have it booked in on wednesday and i'll get him to check teh vacuum pipes as i dont have a pressure gauge..., drove around a bit more yesterday and when its cold its definatley better.
is there any where i can get the vacuum pipe lay out on the Dti engine? i say that because whilst looking at the vac pipes yesterday i found a torq bit still on this black cannister type item (i will have to get a picture up but on the drivers side near the wheel arch); on this you can adjust the torque setting ( i think it said 6.9nm Max). ive never adjusted that or know what its for and the car has only been to the garage for normal servicing.... so im just wondering what this thing does... will get a pic up
oh and i live up in the ribble valley (Lancashire)....
would i be able to check the turbo by taking the inlet pipe off and checking for play in the compressor wheel? will also check the intake piping.
thanks once again for the reply...
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Just got the car back from the mechanic who plugged it into a scanner and the following codes came up:
P1220 Critical Malfunction 1
P1635 Glow Device Error
P1590 Engine running signal voltage high
he cleared the codes and ran the car again and just P1590 flashed up; he said he spoke to a friend who is a vauxhall tech and he reckons that P1590 is the problem i have. possible cause being "over volt on Pin 39 ECU"; he's guessing the alternator but did add that it needs alot of investigation.
now im used to the "it needs alot of investigation" line and to be fair this problem probably does but what has really stumped me is that they reckon its an electrical fault which is causing the car to jerk and stuff. im confused on that one.... any ideas anybody?
he couldnt check teh vac pipes as his gauge is knackered but reckons they are fine and is adamant that over supply of elec to the engine can cause these symptoms.... he checked the volatge supply at the battery and said that was normal.
would appreciate any advice... kind of hit a brick wall!
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"it needs alot of investigation"
What he means is that you need to put a multimeter on the volts range across the battery and measure the voltage with the engine running at a fast idle and without too many electrical accessories on. Normal indications would be 13.8 - 14.4 volts. If it's significantly over 14.5 he might be correct regarding the voltage regulator (part of the alternator).
Kevin
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thanks for the reply Kevin.
the thing with the investigation is i need to put it on the back of his transporter and get the car sent to his mate who is an auto elec (30 miles away); i really dont mind that if its going to get the car sorted but i just wasnt too sure on it being an elec supply problem but then im more of a keyboard mechanic anyway.
Do you think the car could have these symptoms if the regulator has packed in?
Unfortunatley, he cant do anything for a week anyway and i do have it pencilled in with his friend on the 9th. His friend said he doesnt know how long it will take to find the fault which is fair enough as he hasnt seen the car yet; so i have a week to possibly diagnose the fault or atleast establish if the voltage supply is where the issues lie.... all help as always is hugely appreciated....
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It's not unknown for VX regulators to fail high voltage, and it can affect all sorts of systems in the car in all sorts of ways.
I'm somewhat surprised that the car needs to be sent that far for a simple diagnostic procedure that any garage really ought to be able to carry out. It could of course be that there's more to the fault code than what they have said, but if it is simply a high supply voltage it can only be the voltage regulator in the alternator and any garage should be able to sort that out.
Have you had any other symptoms that could be attributed to an overvoltage? (bulbs blowing frequently, other electrical wierdness, etc?)
I would get the car back, test the battery voltage while running as I indicated, and hopefully someone on here with TIS can look up those fault codes and get more detail on what they actually refer to. It could be that it's something simple which you can sort out within the week.
Kevin
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there is a closer auto electrician but this guy is his friend so all elec work usually goes to him. ive not messed with any electrical stuff ( i did wash the engine but that was some time & mileage before the problem started); i checked all the elec connectors i could to make sure non were rusty and all were fine. not had any bulbs blowing; elecs been working fine and still are.
his friend reckons a new alternator possibly (without looking & based on the fault codes); anybody know what "over volt on pin 39 ecu" means; i.e. what is the relevance of pin 39?
been googling P1590 but it appears its a common fault code on Subaru's; so hard to see the wood for the trees.
will also check the battery voltage over the weekend although the indy did check this and said it was okay; i'll check it on fast idle also as im not sure if he would have done that.
anymore angles on this peeps?
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Excellent.....well ignore the alternator....its not that.....not good diag from the people you have seen I would say....a mile off the mark!
Can I ask that you check around the engine wiring looms, pay close attention to the mass of wires near ecu box by the battery....I think there is a wire shorting to chassis (0V)....specificaly the 5V sensor feed....
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thanks mark will do & report back; has this conclusion got something to do with Pin 39 ecu? ive been googling that for ages trying find out anything about it but had no luck.
can i ask if there is a way of telling which the 5V sensor feed is?
thanks again
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Pin 39 is the ECU pos supply feed......by all means check the battery charge voltage when reving but, I suspect it will be alright..
Its pin 93 I would be looking at....
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sorry ive been away for a while (as well as spending a week in hospital!) but i have an update and it aint good news unfortunatley....
i managed to get the car into an auto electrician today and printed off everyones kind suggestions as to what the problem is and asked him to look at the car.
he rang me just now and said that he's done the fast running test across the battery and voltage regulator is okay.
he checked Pin 93 & 39 and they are okay and after testing some more he said that the fuel pump in the engine bay (perhaps the ignition pump he's talking about) has an ECU on top of it and that is knackered but i have to get both together which will cost me £700!!!
i haven't picked up the car yet and ive asked him to jot down his diagnosis.
one thing i have noticed is that when the car is cold (in the mornings really) it drives fine so i was suspecting something like the lambda sensor wire earthing or similar; i had a look myself but couldnt see anything myself hence i went the auto electrician route.
i do have some add on wires in the bigger fuse box by the battery (one with a Hella relay); my car has had a tow bar fitted later so im suspecting these are related. but nothing i could see that was bare or possibly earthing.
what i dont want to do is spend £700 or so and still have the problem.... can someone please point me in the right direction as to what i should do next...im not sure on this guys diagnosis and wanted to know if theres anything i should be asking him or perhaps how he got to that conclusion?
many thanks
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just picked the car up; he said he checked the wiring loom and couldnt see a short anywhere and checked pin 39 & 93 (which he said was the engine temp sensor??) which are fine. asked him how he got to this conclusion (about the ecu) and he said he's had them before & its common on vauxhalls. not sure if thats a proper diagnostic.
ive been researching on the net and so far everyone who's had the fuel pump ecu go t!ts up have been unable to start the car; mine starts and idles spot on. i queried this and he said its usually non starts but not always....
i can understand how it can be the fuel pump but wouldn't this happen all the time? i.e. even from a cold start?
also can these be repaired? or bought seperate to the fuel pump?
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if its fine when cold it could be any number of things but assuming it has been serviced recently so it doesnt need filters etc changing the first port ofcall for me would dbe the coolant tremp sensor change it!!
jm2pw
Omegatoy
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Well, to diagnose pump and ECU failure is a cop out, hes not completed a correct and thorough diag as hes not checked the vac setup.....
He should also have looked at the live MAF data whilst actuating EGR valve etc.....it might be as simple as the EGR sticking open....
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Omegatoy thanks for the response; its been serviced not so long ago with all new filters & oil. i havent covered many miles since the service (perhaps about 2000 or so). do you know where the engine temp sensor is; i'll get one ordered (i assume a dealer part only?).
Mark (cheers buddy), i really wish i lived near MK!.... i felt really frustrated when he said that his diagnosis is based on past experience; i thought he would have done something to check the ecu. ive been researching and it seems that everyone who's had pump or pump ecu failures haven't been able to start their car.
im not sure what to do now really (short of driving it off a cliff); these cowboys dont even have vac gauges.... ::)
i could do with a list of things to check/clean....
first port of call; buy a haynes manual (will this have the vac pipe setup in it so that i can make sure its all on correct?)
going to change the engine temp sensor, clean the EGR...
im going to have another look for a shorting wire but this time i'll strip off all the intake pipes etc so that i have more space to observe.
is there a way to check the MAF? can i disconnect it and see if the car runs better?
thanks again for all your input everyone
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Clean the EGR first....
Follow the vac pipes and check they are all ok....
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Haynes won't cover any diesel model :(
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thanks Mark will do; going to pop down to halfrauds at lunch; i have a feeling a haynes manual will be a very handy thing to have around for the next few weeks;
your advice is very much appreciated mate :y
will keep you posted.
Raf
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Haynes won't cover any diesel model :(
it never ends >:(.... any info on the net or other books i can get any info from?
i guess i wont be going to halfruads then...
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Haynes won't cover any diesel model :(
it never ends >:(.... any info on the net or other books i can get any info from?
i guess i wont be going to halfruads then...
Place on the net I know about - http://www.omegaowners.com :P
Sorry, don't really know of further info for this car. Vauxhall TIS 2000 will have a lot of info in, but is very expensive, not sure how much Autodata has, again expensive.
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i took advantage of the good weather yesterday and managed to locate the EGR valve, its just above the intake pipe that comes from the intercooler to the intake manifold.
i have taken some pics and will do write up this weekend as theres not much info on the 2.2dti engine; it may help someone....
anyway; the EGR itself was not mega dirty but the plunger was stuck; got it clean and the plunger was moving again. i also cleaned out the intake pipe as this was quite cruddy. put the car back together and whilst cold it drove better than before; however once temp got up the dreaded jerking/cutting out started again :(
whilst i had the pipes off i checked all the vac pipes i could see and they were all okay (i.e. none had come off); checked a few extra elec connections that i could see and all were clean. i noticed the intake was quite dirty too but i couldnt take this off as the fuel lines are in the way.
where should i go from here? is there a possiblity that the fault code related to the elecs isnt linked?
also i was thinking about the suggestion of the engine temp sensor.... is this above the thermostat and worth changing?
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just been reading around other forums ( :-[) and i came across a thread where a guy had the fault code P1590 but he described it as "Vac solonoid" using Tech2.
link is http://www.cavweb-forums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=128210&highlight=P1590
so my question is would different code readers bring up different descriptions? also is the Vac solonoid where the EGR vac pipe connects to and also the actuator vac pipe?
this is baffling....
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bump
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Don't know if this is any use to you but.
2.5 td's frequently suffer from refusal to start when hot. & eml light coming on after decelerating .problem is temp sensor in hp pump, which apparently can be changed with pump in situ, or ecu can be tricked on fuel temp. I did neither and used car as chicken shed
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I have the same problem with my 2001 omega 2.2dti(y22dth).
I could not go over 1500rpm, yelow light, a lot of white smoke.
I change filter, clean EGR, check turbo and nothing.
My fault codes P1590 and P1220.
They told me that P1220 is the injection pump, is a mechanical problem.
Suddenly without any intervention my smoke is not so dense, i can accelerate over 1500rpm, Is no longer yellow ligt on, but is some smoke when i push throtle pedal and i am hearing some noise inside the motor.
Mechanics told me that could be injectores, valves, axes or injection pump.
Monday they will disassemble my upper part and check those.
If not i will put it on a trailler and sent it 100km to a service wich repair injection pump.
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Sebi1964 you certainly have the same fault codes as me :-?
so P1220 is the IP? mine didnt log this again and it was probably logged when i was checking the vac lines and elec connections and stuff.... ive never had the codes read on this car or cleared so could be an old one.
what did they tell you what P1590 was?
Osealy; thanks for the reply, im tending to think temp sensor (or something temp related) as i cant figure out why it drives normal when stone cold. However mine starts first time (touch wood) and idles properly.... just doesnt like being driven.
Sebi1964; mine doesnt smoke at all (unless it skips a beat then it just dumps unburnt fuel through), i had smoking probs on a bmw and that was a leaking injector; it was dense white smoke (Stealers wanted to change the turbo, cats & intercooler!!!)... i see yours only does 1500 rpm.... mine does 3000 or on a good day around 3500 :D how does yours drive when the engine is cold (usually if left overnight)?
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i check my fault codes again.
P1590 remain but seems that its some high/low voltage error which don't influence the engine.
P1220 is gone but my mechanic said that probably will reappear later when is least expected.
Today we will check the cama axe to find out which causes that noise.
After, if we can solve that problem, i'll go to a center to check my injection pump.
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thanks Sebi; keep me posted and if i get any where i'll do the same...
i didnt do anything to the car this weekend; ive checked what i can; had another (ex) mechanic (old school type who is a friend of my fathers) come and have a look, he checked stuff like fuel pump, compression etc, scratched his head and said dunno whats up with it...
so far im thinking (although im no expert);
1) temp sensor or something related to temp.... dont know where this sensor is though.
2) EGR valve; even though it moves im not sure if the vac pressure can move it?
3) the EGR Vac solonoid; dont know why i think it may be this but its cropped up a few times in searching the tinternet...
anymore to the list?
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bumpy
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I found out the cause for that noise in my engine.
A piece below cama axe was broken(i don't know the name for it)
It's possible that the p1220 problem was the cause for this because of unbalanced farce inside the engine.
However p1220 no longer present. When my car will be ready i will try to drive it feww km to see if come back.
P1220 is most likelly a injection pump malfunction.
Anyway the only explanation I have for p1220 dissapeareance is some injection cleaner i used.
So try to see if its not something in your tank and put some magic diesel in yor filter and let it run for 10 min.
If not my opinion is that pump have an mechanical problem.
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thanks mate; my P1220 isnt present (or wasnt when they cleared the codes and re-checked)... ive not had the codes re-checked; infact cars in my bro's drive and has been there for a while... im on my push bike at the mo.
do you still have P1590 showing up?
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P1590 still present but it seems that its not important.
I have changed my broken piece.
Engine run well.
Still after a while yeloww light is on and some smoke appear.
Today I will receck my fault codes.
If P1220 will be find its seems that I have to change the pump.
Sad because its expensive.
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OK ... had an Omega come in today,, runnning a bit lumpy but more or less lumpy.. eml light is on.
read code.got code p1590 and more or less , i think it mk or something like that ( sorry i cant remember ur name) he was on the right lines
theres a few checks that u can do, if all checks come out right it is then down to the ecu.
havent got time right now, but will post the work order description....
i hope it helps with ur prob
:y
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check volt between batt terminals rev upto 3000 rpm at norm running temp
volts should be 13.5-14.5v if yes . to next step
ing off disconect ecu
conect a 55w bulb (headlamp bulb terminals 9 o'clock and 12 o'clock in parallel with multimeter to terminal 39 on wireside of harness and earth should be greater than 11v
next conect lamp and multi to terminal 1 to pos batt volts should be more than 11v same withterminal 2 both should be more than 11v
if all tests are ok then its ecu
if not get back to me
i hope it helps
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so, after i put some clening additives in my fuel my engine sound a little better, but still some smoke.
I decided to change my pump and i drive 100km to a injection pump specialists.
Surprise, my fault codes changed, no P1220 some other with EGR and ....
They repaired it in half an hour something wrong in my vaccum circuit.
So check your vaccum circuit.
Now working perfect.